Texas Considering Seceding?

[jimjam32]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/15/gov-rick-perry-texas-coul_n_187490.html

AUSTIN, Texas -- Texas Gov. Rick Perry fired up an anti-tax "tea party" Wednesday with his stance against the federal government and for states' rights as some in his U.S. flag-waving audience shouted, "Secede!"

Hmm.

[jimjam32]

I'm not really worried about it. Doesn't seem serious, just thought the "threat" of secession was silly.

[Adeniz19]

:rolleyes:

[SSLYBY]

lol.

[Mercy Medical]

One of the most absurd things anyone has said in the past few days. I mean, honestly, did he even think for a second what that would entail? Lets see, you share a border with a country that has a major drug war going on and you now no longer have the US governments help in regards to military. Have fun keeping your borders free and clear of the Mexican cartels...

[Jason Tate]

I hope so.

[saysmydoctor]

:rotfl:

[Ben09]

One of the most absurd things anyone has said in the past few days. I mean, honestly, did he even think for a second what that would entail? Lets see, you share a border with a country that has a major drug war going on and you now no longer have the US governments help in regards to military. Have fun keeping your borders free and clear of the Mexican cartels...

A huge percent of the guys in the military are from Texas....

This will never happen, but it does help bring attention. Gotta love a fellow Aggie.

[more heart]

I would be so happy if Texas seceded.

[Justin_stacy]

Constitutionally speaking they, unfortunately, can't succeed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White).


So long as they put authority in the Supreme Court's ruling, I guess should be added.

[Machu505]

Would fail quickly.

[Adrian Villagomez]

Yeah, I always hear fellow Texans talking seriously about seceding. :rolleyes:

[J.C.]

In all seriousness, what has Texas really given us other than Adrian Villagomez?

[x togepi x]

at the drive in

[zion the lion]

Let them secede.

[saysmydoctor]

Constitutionally speaking they, unfortunately, can't succeed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White).


So long as they put authority in the Supreme Court's ruling, I guess should be added.
I'd never heard this ruling before and it doesn't seem legitimate. If a region dismisses a constitution, it's only constitutional to a region that still holds value in the document. So, how they figure that Confederate States didn't secede makes no sense. They seceded and they operated under a different government. Regardless of what this ruling says.

[Justin_stacy]

I'd never heard this ruling before and it doesn't seem legitimate. If a region dismisses a constitution, it's only constitutional to a region that still holds value in the document. So, how they figure that Confederate States didn't secede makes no sense. They seceded and they operated under a different government. Regardless of what this ruling says.

Personally few of the rulings I've actually read (which is only a handfull) by the Supreme Court make much sense.

You know the real question here is, if one can be serious, can succession be stopped if a state chooses to do so? If a state wants to leave the SC is pretty much irrelevant, and Washington can't stop it by force, not in this day....I mean economical/financial punishment is really the only threat, and the three states most likely to leave would be better off economical as a lone body. Sortof interesting to think about.

[x togepi x]

I'd never heard this ruling before and it doesn't seem legitimate. If a region dismisses a constitution, it's only constitutional to a region that still holds value in the document. So, how they figure that Confederate States didn't secede makes no sense. They seceded and they operated under a different government. Regardless of what this ruling says.

It makes perfect sense. It's illegal to secede, making it so states can't threaten to do it if they don't get what they want, however, the ruling isn't claiming that it's *not possible* to secede, just that said secession is illegal under united states law. Obviously a state could functionally choose to secede and ignore US law entirely, but they're going to be punished for it.

[imahoodlum]

Yeah, I always hear fellow Texans talking seriously about seceding. :rolleyes:
This.

[saysmydoctor]

It makes perfect sense. It's illegal to secede, making it so states can't threaten to do it if they don't get what they want, however, the ruling isn't claiming that it's *not possible* to secede, just that said secession is illegal under united states law. Obviously a state could functionally choose to secede and ignore US law entirely, but they're going to be punished for it.
But they are rejecting US law. I mean, yes they would be punished but that would after they were forced back under US law.

This seems like the beginning of a philosophical/anarchistic debate.

[x togepi x]

But they are rejecting US law. I mean, yes they would be punished but that would after they were forced back under US law.

This seems like the beginning of a philosophical/anarchistic debate.

obviously, but this case is no different than the law against murder. You could kill someone, but it's illegal.

and yeah, obviously they'd be punished after they were forced to be under US law, that's the point, but if a state could functionally fight off the US government, US law would be irrelevant.

[saysmydoctor]

I guess I'm tracking, I'm not dismissing you. That ruling just seems so obvious. That's the point the, they are dismissing the ruling.

[Justin_stacy]

obviously, but this case is no different than the law against murder. You could kill someone, but it's illegal.

and yeah, obviously they'd be punished after they were forced to be under US law, that's the point, but if a state could functionally fight off the US government, US law would be irrelevant.

The SC's ruling is basically a precedent to fall back on.

If a state wants to go whatever the SC ruled prior is basically meaningless to them.

[x togepi x]

The SC's ruling is basically a precedent to fall back on.

If a state wants to go whatever the SC ruled prior is basically meaningless to them.

exactly, it ties into that legal concept, the name escapes me, that says both parties in a dispute must be following the law, otherwise the claims get thrown out.

[eraserhead]

Stupid.

[cantnokdahustle]

Screw that. I just want us to split apart, so Austin and San Antonio can make up the gnarliest state ever.

[Duexy]

Not a good time to be a Texan. :-(

[anthonydarko]

:lol:

[inevitable]

Rick Perry: " Texas is a unique place. When we came into the union in 1845, one of the issues was that we would be able to leave if we decided to do that. My hope is that America and Washington in particular pays attention. We've got a great union. There's absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, who knows what may come out of that."

[Burn That Shit]

As much as I think it's hilarious, it probably won't/shouldn't happen.

[x togepi x]

I guess I'm tracking, I'm not dismissing you. That ruling just seems so obvious. That's the point the, they are dismissing the ruling.

i think the point of it was to differentiate states "re-entering" the union after they seceded and lost from new states that entered the union. it's an obvious ruling for sure, but it stops the seceded states from claiming they're new states.

and there's always the fact that you need precedents for obvious things so that you don't get lawyers running weird arguments claiming obvious things aren't obviously true. look at caselaw, you'll see even the most simple words/concepts being defined in precedent so that obvious cases are considered legally obvious.

[SpacePunk]

Let them secede.

Would you like the country to fall apart?

One state seceding is only going to lead to more.

[Adeniz19]

no other state is stupid enough to talk about seceding (besides alaska)

[loveisdead]

:wave:

[zion the lion]

Would you like the country to fall apart?

One state seceding is only going to lead to more.

I would rather have them stop bitching. They wouldnt last a year being on their own, because our military would pull out and they would have to deal with Mexico on their own.

[Ben09]

I would rather have them stop bitching. They wouldnt last a year being on their own, because our military would pull out and they would have to deal with Mexico on their own.


Again, over half the military is from Texas, and many Texans feel as though they're Texans first and then Americans.

We know what happened when Lee had to pick between VA or the US.

[Justin_stacy]

Would you like the country to fall apart?

One state seceding is only going to lead to more.

.....and the awful part of that would be? You have to admit the fact we've lasted this long is kindof shocking.

[Adeniz19]

Again, over half the military is from Texas, and many Texans feel as though they're Texans first and then Americans.

We know what happened when Lee had to pick between VA or the US.you have a link to that stat? just curious

edit: i found this

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/mil_tot_mil_rec_arm_nav_air_for-recruits-army-navy-air-force

texas makes up a little under 8% of recruits, so i'd say your information is highly inaccurate.

[IcedOpethBlind]

Yeah, I always hear fellow Texans talking seriously about seceding. :rolleyes:

exactly

[IcedOpethBlind]

Not a good time to be a Texan. :-(

why?

[x togepi x]

Would you like the country to fall apart?

One state seceding is only going to lead to more.

no disrespect to the texas national guard, but they would flat out get owned by the US military, and most other states realize that, so no, i doubt even if texas seceded that the 3 days they're an independent nation again would convince other states to do the same.

[TotalCollapse]

lol

[Sventhegreat]

Interesting.

[TachyonEvan]

.....and the awful part of that would be? You have to admit the fact we've lasted this long is kindof shocking.

:O.

I think I back this.

[zion the lion]

Again, over half the military is from Texas, and many Texans feel as though they're Texans first and then Americans.

We know what happened when Lee had to pick between VA or the US.

I'm not sure what youre saying but the military has a responsiblity to put their country first, which means if Texas secedes then they military gets pulled out of that state and moves somewhere else. Them threatening to secede means they want nothing to do with this country or its government, meaning they dont want our protection.

[SpacePunk]

.....and the awful part of that would be? You have to admit the fact we've lasted this long is kindof shocking.

Oh, I agree.. and I think it is more of a future possibility than some people would like to think.

[Justin_stacy]

no disrespect to the texas national guard, but they would flat out get owned by the US military, and most other states realize that, so no, i doubt even if texas seceded that the 3 days they're an independent nation again would convince other states to do the same.

I just don't see Washington as having the support to make a military response on a state (citizens) voting to secede. I'm not even such I believe the military would engage. And the backlash across the country would be incredible.

If a state leaves peacefully, economical punishment and diplomacy is about all Washington has.

[Justin_stacy]

Oh, I agree.. and I think it is more of a future possibility than some people would like to think.

Just last year zogby found that 1/5 of Americans believe a state should have the right to leave if the citizens vote to do so, and slightly less than 1/5 support the idea of leaving. Those number are almost certain to rise in the next decade, but doubt anything will actually happen in my lifetime.

[Jason Tate]

Just last year zogby found that 1/5 of Americans believe a state should have the right to leave if the citizens vote to do so, and slightly less than 1/5 support the idea of leaving. Those number are almost certain to rise in the next decade, but doubt anything will actually happen in my lifetime.
Zogby is probably the worst possible source you could cite for a poll.

[saysmydoctor]

Just last year zogby found that 1/5 of Americans believe a state should have the right to leave if the citizens vote to do so, and slightly less than 1/5 support the idea of leaving. Those number are almost certain to rise in the next decade, but doubt anything will actually happen in my lifetime.
Yikes.

[loveisdead]

I just don't see Washington as having the support to make a military response on a state (citizens) voting to secede. I'm not even such I believe the military would engage. And the backlash across the country would be incredible.

If a state leaves peacefully, economical punishment and diplomacy is about all Washington has.
Totally agree with this.

[fly_guy]

Go Texas A&M!! HOORAH

[Justin_stacy]

Yikes.

http://www.zogby.com/news/readnews.cfm

[Dan1234]

that would be awesome if Texas seceded. That's 34 electoral votes less for the republicans..... they'd never win another fucking election

[Siren Silently]

I just don't see Washington as having the support to make a military response on a state (citizens) voting to secede. I'm not even such I believe the military would engage. And the backlash across the country would be incredible.

If a state leaves peacefully, economical punishment and diplomacy is about all Washington has.

Okay even so, that's about the U.S needs to make Texas seceding a laughable endeavor.

[zion the lion]

If they are going to do this, they better do it soon, because I'm tired of hearing the people on the news talk about it.

[Duexy]

that would be awesome if Texas seceded. That's 34 electoral votes less for the republicans..... they'd never win another fucking election


lol

[theguy77]

In all seriousness, what has Texas really given us other than Adrian Villagomez?

american analog set :-(

and me :-(

hahahaha not that i expect you to give a fuck about either one

[ssion1984]

So we're going to need a passport next year if we want to go to SXSW?

JK JK JK JK

I actually like Texas - and trust me there are liberals down there. I remember a huge political debate on the 4th of July... fascinating. =] I have relatives down there that think George W. Bush is a hero. But that isn't all of Texas. Plus, I don't want Texas to secede because obviously it's ridiculous and secondly, 6th graders won't be able to sing "50 Nifty United States" anymore. haha

[Justin_stacy]

Okay even so, that's about the U.S needs to make Texas seceding a laughable endeavor.

the opposite is probably just as plausible. maybe?

[aoftbsten]

This would be awesome, but it won't happen.

[MyNameIsRoss]

Every state should have the right to secede. I don't see what the big deal is. I don't think any states will anytime soon, but who knows.

[SpacePunk]

wow at all the retarded people in here, what is so bad about texas?

80% of the people in here are more to the left than Jane Fonda.

[more heart]

Can Texas just secede now so the talk of secession will be over?

[saysmydoctor]

wow at all the retarded people in here, what is so bad about texas?
Where should I start?

[SlappedActor]

Every state should have the right to secede. I don't see what the big deal is. I don't think any states will anytime soon, but who knows.

lol

[apoemtothedead]

wow at all the retarded people in here, what is so bad about texas?
Cowboy hats as far as the eye can see in the Dallas airport's gift shops.

[MyNameIsRoss]

lol

Explain your lol.

[Wildness774]

geeez never say never

[loveisdead]

Explain your lol.
Did you ever take a history course between 4th and 12th grade?

[MyNameIsRoss]

Did you ever take a history course between 4th and 12th grade?

Yes. The states were originally intended to be divisible, should the federal government become too powerful. The founding fathers were very weary of this, obviously we declared independence from Britain. I'm not for secession, I think it would be chaos. I suppose you were referring to the civil war, which shows you misunderstood what i was trying to say.I was just saying that discussing it is not completely outrageous or treasonous as some are making it out to be. It's a completely American idea. I should clarify I see no reason why any state should secede at this moment in time, and I'm not to the right at all.

[Illuminate]

I hope so.

Win.

[x togepi x]

Yes. The states were originally intended to be divisible, should the federal government become too powerful. The founding fathers were very weary of this, obviously we declared independence from Britain. I'm not for secession, I think it would be chaos. I suppose you were referring to the civil war, which shows you misunderstood what i was trying to say.I was just saying that discussing it is not completely outrageous or treasonous as some are making it out to be. It's a completely American idea. I should clarify I see no reason why any state should secede at this moment in time, and I'm not to the right at all.

the founding fathers also allowed for the institution of slavery. things changed.

[loveisdead]

Yes. The states were originally intended to be divisible, should the federal government become too powerful. The founding fathers were very weary of this, obviously we declared independence from Britain. I'm not for secession, I think it would be chaos. I suppose you were referring to the civil war, which shows you misunderstood what i was trying to say.I was just saying that discussing it is not completely outrageous or treasonous as some are making it out to be. It's a completely American idea. I should clarify I see no reason why any state should secede at this moment in time, and I'm not to the right at all.
Yes, the founding fathers lived in a time where the states were far more powerful than the federal government. It really wasn't til after the civil war that the federal government became the massive power it was. I think that if a state were to try and secede now they would probably get away with it, and then end up asking to join back for economic reasons.

[MyNameIsRoss]

the founding fathers also allowed for the institution of slavery. things changed.

Is that relevant? Everyone should want this right, even if you don't think it should exercised. That's all I'm saying.

[loveisdead]

Is that relevant? Everyone should want this right, even if you don't think it should exercised. That's all I'm saying.
His point is that times are very very different now than when the founding fathers were drafting the constitution.

[punk182mutt]

I don't think a bunch of dumb audience members are much to worry about... lol

[loveisdead]

I don't think a bunch of dumb audience members are much to worry about... lol
huh? It was the governor.

[MyNameIsRoss]

Yes, the founding fathers lived in a time where the states were far more powerful than the federal government. It really wasn't til after the civil war that the federal government became the massive power it was. I think that if a state were to try and secede now they would probably get away with it, and then end up asking to join back for economic reasons.

Yes, it wouldn't be a good move for any state right now.But our civil liberties have been taken away at an alarming rate starting in the 20th century, and we were to ever live in a complete police state, I might be for some type of secession.

[mattmatumbo]

let them secede, they'll come running back when they realize that bush as king just doesn't work.

[x togepi x]

Is that relevant? Everyone should want this right, even if you don't think it should exercised. That's all I'm saying.

i don't. states rights, as a system, proved to be infinitely more oppressive to minorities than the federal government.

[punk182mutt]

huh? It was the governor.

I didn't see that he actually said anything about seceding.

[loveisdead]

Yes, it wouldn't be a good move for any state right now.But our civil liberties have been taken away at an alarming rate starting in the 20th century, and we were to ever live in a complete police state, I might be for some type of secession.
What civil liberties?

[loveisdead]

i don't. states rights, as a system, proved to be infinitely more oppressive to minorities than the federal government.
Seriously. Talk to a few Indians.

[MyNameIsRoss]

What civil liberties?

Well , this past administration really fucked things up. The patriot act? I would cite the drug war as an example of an infringement of your civil liberties.

[loveisdead]

Well , this past administration really fucked things up. The patriot act? I would cite the drug war as an example of an infringement of your civil liberties.
I agree. Do those outweigh things like the ninteenth amendment and Roe v. Wade?

[saysmydoctor]

State laws are just as notorious as federal laws concerning drugs. The states that have moved towards decriminalization are generally more liberal (MA, CA, NY slowly).

[MyNameIsRoss]

i don't. states rights, as a system, proved to be infinitely more oppressive to minorities than the federal government.

Who said anything about minorities? I'm saying the right to secession among other things should act like checks and balances on the federal government's power to prevent a possible 1984-like reality.

[J.C.]

THE WAR ON FICTION
.

[x togepi x]

Who said anything about minorities? I'm saying the right to secession among other things should act like checks and balances on the federal government's power to prevent a possible 1984-like reality.

I said something about minorities. You're advocating the states right to secede, which was considered one of the foundations of the states rights doctrine, which oppressed minorities more than the federal government. I highly doubt the states are going to be what prevents a 1984-like reality considering how extremely statist many state legislatures tend to be.

[Praetor]

THE WAR ON FICTION
.
The crusades?

Ohhhh sh--

[jagermeister]

I'm not really worried about it. Doesn't seem serious, just thought the "threat" of secession was silly.
The Quebecois have been threatening to do that here for years and years now. Things like this don't just happen - I wouldn't worry.

[apoemtothedead]

that is so bogus and you know it, cowboy hats are only for special occasions.
No, I know nothing about cowboy hats other than they help me identify idiots and cowboys.

[saysmydoctor]

you're 18, you've got a lot more living to do before you can judge an entire state on being shitty
You're only two years old then me. Next.

[loveisdead]

You're only two years old then me. Next.
And it's not like you could possibly read things about the state and learn about what you might have missed in those 2 years. What a stupid argument.

[Duexy]

anything outside of the DFW metroplex and surrounding suburbs is assy-tx.

[Nevuk]

Is that relevant? Everyone should want this right, even if you don't think it should exercised. That's all I'm saying.
Everyone should have want to have the right to own slaves? Wow man.... thats..

[loveisdead]

Everyone should have want to have the right to own slaves? Wow man.... thats..
He meant the right to secede.

[Nevuk]

He meant the right to secede.
I'm aware, but I enjoy misinterpreting other people's words.

[loveisdead]

I'm aware, but I enjoy misinterpreting other people's words.
Haha.

[MyNameIsRoss]

Everyone should have want to have the right to own slaves? Wow man.... thats..


hahh. no misinterpretation there, .

[Duexy]

I missed the part where I said I have so much more experience than you? Oh wait I didn't. Way to get pissed on the Internet though.




way to assume someone is pissed because they're being terse

[thebestkylever]

if at first you don't secede, try try again.

[loveisdead]

I missed the part where I said I have so much more experience than you? Oh wait I didn't. Way to get pissed on the Internet though.

But before you make another "knowledgable" statement I would like inquire as what you hate so much about the state? How long did you live there to develop this opinion?
You have to live somewhere to hate the place? Why? I can think of a few countries I absolutely cannot stand yet have never visited.

[loveisdead]

Ok, you're right 3rd world tyrannical countries do suck. I really don't think someone can be justified by saying some state in the US sucks "just cause." we are all people here, and stereotyping is just ignorant.
Who is stereotyping? I hated this country for a good portion of very recent time. I don't think that Texas sucks "just cause." I think they hold us back on crucial social issues that would better this country.

[Duexy]

texass

can't believe i'm going to school there in 2012.

[samsara]

oh God some people from texas are stupid. I hate living next door to them.

[Duexy]

"Only steers and queers come from Texas, Private Cowboy. And you don't look much like a steer to me so that kinda narrows it down. Do you suck dicks?"


fuck that movie and fuck that quote.

[loveisdead]

I find it hard to blame 1 state for holding the entire country back, but I will at least give you credit for giving a reason. I think people who just say "LOL COWBOYS" are very stupid. people have different priorities, this is nothing new in politics. texas never did anything to hurt you personally, and you can disagree with what some people believe but to totally disregard an entire state of Americans? thats what I think is stupid, I wasn't calling you out at all though in the first place.
You're right in that it isn't just Texas, but I sort of think Texas is the capital for those types of sentiments. You're talking to a guy who would wave with a big smile if every state south of the mason dixon left.

[imahoodlum]

Ok, you're right 3rd world tyrannical countries do suck. I really don't think someone can be justified by saying some state in the US sucks "just cause." we are all people here, and stereotyping is just ignorant.
To be honest, most of the stereotypes are true anyways. Not all of us are like that, of course. Just a majority of people in Texas are.

[FueledByFrodo]

It makes perfect sense. It's illegal to secede, making it so states can't threaten to do it if they don't get what they want, however, the ruling isn't claiming that it's *not possible* to secede, just that said secession is illegal under united states law. Obviously a state could functionally choose to secede and ignore US law entirely, but they're going to be punished for it.
So basically they could secede but the U.S. would say that they are still a state?

[loveisdead]

To be honest, most of the stereotypes are true anyways. Not all of us are like that, of course. Just a majority of people in Texas are.
Eh, I dunno. I think that a lot of liberals dislike Texas because it's vastly conservative. The same way I'm sure a lot of conservatives dislike Vermont or Massachusetts. I'm of the very firm belief that at least socially speaking, this country would progress leaps and bounds faster if every southern state buzzed off.

[loveisdead]

So basically they could secede but the U.S. would say that they are still a state?
It would put the U.S. in a tremendously difficult situation.

[FueledByFrodo]

It would put the U.S. in a tremendously difficult situation.
Yes, yes it would. That is a really pointless law and will do more harm than it will actually help.

[imahoodlum]

Eh, I dunno. I think that a lot of liberals dislike Texas because it's vastly conservative. The same way I'm sure a lot of conservatives dislike Vermont or Massachusetts. I'm of the very firm belief that at least socially speaking, this country would progress leaps and bounds faster if every southern state buzzed off.
Yes, Texas is mostly conservative. That is very true. As someone who is liberal and atheist living in the state, I've gotten some low blows from others about politics and religion. It's not cool, at all. And it's really made me grow to dislike Texas.

[saysmydoctor]

I missed the part where I said I have so much more experience than you? Oh wait I didn't. Way to get pissed on the Internet though.

But before you make another "knowledgable" statement I would like inquire as what you hate so much about the state? How long did you live there to develop this opinion?

way to assume someone is pissed because they're being terse

You have to live somewhere to hate the place? Why? I can think of a few countries I absolutely cannot stand yet have never visited.

Ok, you're right 3rd world tyrannical countries do suck. I really don't think someone can be justified by saying some state in the US sucks "just cause." we are all people here, and stereotyping is just ignorant.
I didn't even have to be here to inform that you are an idiot.

[loveisdead]

Yeah, relax Sean. He was pretty damn respectable when we talked about it.

[MyNameIsRoss]

"Only steers and queers come from Texas, Private Cowboy. And you don't look much like a steer to me so that kinda narrows it down. Do you suck dicks?"


fuck that movie and fuck that quote.


....but that's a great movie...

[taylerx0]

In the words of Tim Riggins, "Texas forever!"

[saysmydoctor]

all I asked was for a response to my question, and denying the accusation you made. I see no reason for name calling.
I saw no reason to bring my age as an argument, but you did regardless. I figured if we allowing a lack of reason to rule the argument, I'd do my part. I could list off numerous issues with Texas, firstly the hypocrisy of a state that seceded from what it believed to be a government who exerted their power over the populace to eventually become the state with the highest rate of executions in the nation--the biggest abuse of those in power really imaginable.

[saysmydoctor]

It would put the U.S. in a tremendously difficult situation.
Having our own Taiwan would be cute to see how China reacts. What an amazing lesson in intelligent foreign policy

[loveisdead]

Having our own Taiwan would be cute to see how China reacts. What an amazing lesson in intelligent foreign policy
I agree with what captainhampton was saying earlier in the thread. The United States would try and stop them from leaving, but I don't see any reasonable way they could. They would never use military force.

[saysmydoctor]

It wouldn't logical. The American public would hold they are still citizens.

[saysmydoctor]

thank you for your honesty.

I wish you wouldn't let what the state government does define how you think of the entire state, but since you have your reasons you have every right to voice them.
Well, it's the elected officials of the majority. I'd like to believe that a state and regional level, politics are bit more honest. I'd like to believe that.

[loveisdead]

Well, it's the elected officials of the majority. I'd like to believe that a state and regional level, politics are bit more honest. I'd like to believe that.
You're better than that. Chicago is all that needs to be said.

[loveisdead]

It wouldn't logical. The American public would hold they are still citizens.
The American public could hold whoever they want to be citizens, that doesn't mean that they consider themselves citizens. I think that's where the problem lies. If an entire state says fuck you to America and says peace, we can't just bring them back by saying hey you can't do that.

[saysmydoctor]

You're better than that. Chicago is all that needs to be said.
Even so. I mean obviously there are going to be dishonest people everywhere and politics as usual, but a guy running for District Court Judge is looking for a career and he is going to show more passion than a lot of others.

[loveisdead]

Even so. I mean obviously there are going to be dishonest people everywhere and politics as usual, but a guy running for District Court Judge is looking for a career and he is going to show more passion than a lot of others.
I think separating politicians into categories of honest and dishonest is stupid. They're all dishonest to a certain extent.

[x togepi x]

So basically they could secede but the U.S. would say that they are still a state?

In a way yeah. the US would find a way to punish them until they came back.

I still think a military option would be on the table, i'm not saying we'd attack Texas, but I could see us putting a lot of national guard people in border states to put pressure on the state to come back. I don't even think it's a matter of public support, Obama would get trashed if he let the state go, so it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

[Love As Arson]

I'd support a secession, if it weren't based on racism, nostalgia for nineteenth century capitalism and anger towards social spending.

[Mibabalou]

i hate liberals

[MyNameIsRoss]

I'd support a secession, if it weren't based on racism, nostalgia for nineteenth century capitalism and anger towards social spending.


this

[loveisdead]

i hate liberals
YEAH!

[Justin_stacy]

We know we belong to the land

And the land we belong to is grand!

And when we say - Yeeow! A-yip-i-o-ee ay!

We're only sayin' You're doin' fine, Oklahoma! Oklahoma - O.K

Add Oklahoma to the list of states taking up the faux-succession talk. If there was any substance to any of this it would be cute, now its just getting sad.

http://www.newsok.com/house-bypasses-governors-veto-to-claim-oklahomas-sovereignty/article/3366762

[Machu505]

We know we belong to the land

And the land we belong to is grand!

And when we say - Yeeow! A-yip-i-o-ee ay!

We're only sayin' You're doin' fine, Oklahoma! Oklahoma - O.K

Add Oklahoma to the list of states taking up the faux-succession talk. If there was any substance to any of this it would be cute, now its just getting sad.

http://www.newsok.com/house-bypasses-governors-veto-to-claim-oklahomas-sovereignty/article/3366762

At least Texas might have a sustainable economy. Oklahoma would fail miserably.

[loveisdead]

Ugh :wallbash:

[GeeBee]

That makes 2 states no one would miss...

[loveisdead]

3 states.

[GeeBee]

Now if only Governor Palin would move to Oklahoma.

[Adeniz19]

Do you think the state that you live in would be better off as an independent nation or as part of the United States of America?
US Independent
All 79 5
Northeast 90 2
South 61 9
Midwest 86 4
West 84 4




Would you approve or disapprove of the state that you live in leaving the United States?
Approve Disapprove Unsure
All 4 82 14
Northeast 1 94 5
South 8 63 29
Midwest 3 89 8
West 3 87 10

Would you approve or disapprove of the state that you live in leaving the United States?
Approve Disapprove Unsure
All 4 82 14
Dem 2 95 3
Rep 9 63 28
Ind 3 83 14

edit: dammit can't get it to line up right

[GeeBee]

It would appear that Democrats and people NOT from the South love their country more than anyone else.
Go figure.

[ShShShark]

Whether our current economic situation was the republicans' or the democrats' faults (I'm REALLY not trying to start that fucking debate right now), I do kind of have to agree that officials in Washington are abandoning the country's principles of limited government.

[GeeBee]

Whether our current economic situation was the republicans' or the democrats' faults (I'm REALLY not trying to start that fucking debate right now), I do kind of have to agree that officials in Washington are abandoning the country's principles of limited government.

This is a very subjective claim.
Also, please provide examples.

[ShShShark]

This is a very subjective claim.
Also, please provide examples.

Of course it's subjective, it's my opinion.

1) The placing of, AIG, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, and other failing banks under control of the federal government.
2) The placing of Chrysler under government supervision
3) The fact that I am slightly irked that this money is coming out of my tax dollars

[GeeBee]

Of course it's subjective, it's my opinion.

1) The placing of, AIG, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, and other failing banks under control of the federal government.
2) The placing of Chrysler under government supervision
3) The fact that I am slightly irked that this money is coming out of my tax dollars

Points 1 and 2 are completely necessary to alleviate the effects of the economic downfall. It's not like it's on someone's agenda to nationalize banks and car companies. Warren Buffett, the richest man alive, supports this plan.

3) Unless you're making over 250,000 a year, you're going to be paying less taxes. It's either this, or watch the economy crumble to pieces. I prefer the former.

[Jason Tate]

Whether our current economic situation was the republicans' or the democrats' faults (I'm REALLY not trying to start that fucking debate right now), I do kind of have to agree that officials in Washington are abandoning the country's principles of limited government.
Country's principles of limited government? Where are these principles laid out?

[GeeBee]

Country's principles of limited government? Where are these principles laid out?

You just invited a pack of rabid libertarians to spout their nonsense for like 5 pages.

[Jason Tate]

You just invited a pack of rabid libertarians to spout their nonsense for like 5 pages.
Libertarians are limited in their thinking ... taking their views to a logical conclusion is simply chaos. But ... I am fine hearing their viewpoints, I simply don't think a limited government was part of our "country's principles."

[Jake Denning]

In all seriousness, what has Texas really given us other than Adrian Villagomez?

tBjRbiSZ21I

[Justin_stacy]

At least Texas might have a sustainable economy. Oklahoma would fail miserably.

All but four state's would fail miserably, but that's a different story.

This here is just stupid symbolism. The oddity is that a sizable number (about half) of house Democrats voted infavor of it both times. Since it basically a comment on Obama and a DNC congress I find that pretty surprising.

[GeeBee]

Libertarians are limited in their thinking ... taking their views to a logical conclusion is simply chaos. But ... I am fine hearing their viewpoints, I simply don't think a limited government was part of our "country's principles."

Agreed. I just love it when they tell me that "socialism is too utopian". And then I laugh at the irony. (not that I necessarily disagree)

[Machu505]

All but four state's would fail miserably, but that's a different story.

This here is just stupid symbolism. The oddity is that a sizable number (about half) of house Democrats voted infavor of it both times. Since it basically a comment on Obama and a DNC congress I find that pretty surprising.

That's southern Democrats for ya.

[stayforawhile]

It's never going to happen.

[brandonmorabito]

I saw this on the news a few days ago, Apparently New Hampshire also has a decent amount of the population who want to secede as well. . Its just people who overreact when things don't go they're way. Nothings going to happen.

[Shorty1227]

:)

[p0isonedgames]

the founding fathers also allowed for the institution of slavery. things changed.


The constitution was intended to be a living document. Obviously women have rights now.

But that's not the point. The point od secession is to have our own government that is more specific to this area. Texas could quite possible handle Mexico on their own If all Texans were here to handle it. It's when you get the bureaucrats in Washington involved that problems begin.

Maybe Washington DC should secede and all the senators go with it.

[Praetor]

The constitution was intended to be a living document. Obviously women have rights now.

But that's not the point. The point od secession is to have our own government that is more specific to this area. Texas could quite possible handle Mexico on their own If all Texans were here to handle it. It's when you get the bureaucrats in Washington involved that problems begin.

Maybe Washington DC should secede and all the senators go with it.
I don't think that there is a nugget of an idea in this post.

[saysmydoctor]

Whether our current economic situation was the republicans' or the democrats' faults (I'm REALLY not trying to start that fucking debate right now), I do kind of have to agree that officials in Washington are abandoning the country's principles of limited government.
Please. James Madison and Alexander Hamilton were a strong proponents of a strong, centralized federal government with checks and balances to protect the public from tyranny.
The constitution was intended to be a living document. Obviously women have rights now.

But that's not the point. The point od secession is to have our own government that is more specific to this area. Texas could quite possible handle Mexico on their own If all Texans were here to handle it. It's when you get the bureaucrats in Washington involved that problems begin.

Maybe Washington DC should secede and all the senators go with it.
The living document is a pretty tired argument. The 2/3 Compromise can't be translated to anything else than the subjugation of the African-american populace of the south, I don't care how the nation has evolved. If you meant that as a living document that the government could amend to make it work within the means it needed to during a certain time period, then sure.

But if we go with your living document and that the entire constitution is supposed to evolve with time, we can use the second amendment as a prime example of the stubbornness of the document. At no time did the Founding Fathers predict a time when arms would mean anything else than pack and shoot rifles. They didn't anticipate assault weapons and what not. Women have rights on paper. African-americans have rights on paper.

Maybe Washington DC should have a senate vote.

[x togepi x]

The constitution was intended to be a living document. Obviously women have rights now.

But that's not the point. The point od secession is to have our own government that is more specific to this area. Texas could quite possible handle Mexico on their own If all Texans were here to handle it. It's when you get the bureaucrats in Washington involved that problems begin.

Maybe Washington DC should secede and all the senators go with it.

this is one of the most idiotic posts i've ever read. I'm sure texas government is so amazing that it lacks bureaucrats just like every other state, local and federal government in the world.

[p0isonedgames]

this is one of the most idiotic posts i've ever read. I'm sure texas government is so amazing that it lacks bureaucrats just like every other state, local and federal government in the world.


You'll notice I said nothing about the Texan government being superior. I said it couldn't be proven either way.

So, ammendment: The strength of our state government will not be proven or disproven unless Texas actually secedes, an action that at this point would be political/ economical suicide due to various factors including the Iraqi war, the recession, etc. America at this point can't be having internal disputes when they're trying to fix outside problems. It is also petty for Texas to threaten it at this point, and hopefully most of us understand this.

And yes, Texas has bureaucrats. I am fully aware. It probably has more than most other states due to the amount of smaller governments that come with having a larger georgaphical area.

[saysmydoctor]

I don't even know what the fuck you are talking about? How did bureaucracy even come up? Did you read a Newt Gingrich book and think the word sounded pretty?