Oh Peace Renteria?

[mikeford]

Gordon Edes reports that a deal with the Braves, DRays and Red Sox is in the works... sending E to ATL, Julio Lugo to Boston and ATL prospect(s) to the DRays

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

i'll take it, as a Braves fan.

[yeat182]

oh god i hope so. "E" Renteria killed us last year.

[underdawg1119]

That's awesome for the Braves...but it kinda sucks for the BoSox..

[NetNerdsRevenge]

Unless were getting a CF or 1B along with Lugo, pass.

[mikeford]

i think you guys really underestimate the value of julio lugo

[underdawg1119]

i think you guys really underestimate the value of julio lugo

probably, seeing as he's been on the worst team in major league baseball the past few years, and i'd assume not many people outside of Tampa follow the D Rays

[NetNerdsRevenge]

i think you guys really underestimate the value of julio lugo
I think you underestimate the trade value of Rent. We have an All-star SS and all we can get for him is Lugo? He is a good player and would be nice at SS if Rent were to go, but we also have other needs. Maybe Rent and someone else for Lugo and Huff? Doesn't matter as it looks like Tampa has been cut out of the deal. Last I heard from Gammons, the Red Sox and Braves were talking.

[mikeford]

I think you underestimate the trade value of Rent. We have an All-star SS and all we can get for him is Lugo? He is a good player and would be nice at SS if Rent were to go, but we also have other needs. Maybe Rent and someone else for Lugo and Huff? Doesn't matter as it looks like Tampa has been cut out of the deal. Last I heard from Gammons, the Red Sox and Braves were talking.

last season

batting avg edge to lugo 295 to 276
runs edge to rent 100 to 89, but considering no one else on the drays other than cantu can hit....
hr edge to rent, slightly at a 8 to 6 mark
rbis edge to rent, 70 to 59 but considering lugo played on a shitty team i think thats a wash
stolen bases edge to lugo 39 to 9
OBP edge to lugo, 362 to 335

errors edge to lugo 24 to 30
fielding % edge to lugo .968 to .954
range factor edge to lugo 4.94 to 4.35
and finally zone rating edge to lugo .841 to .809



just saying.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

last season

batting avg edge to lugo 295 to 276
runs edge to rent 100 to 89, but considering no one else on the drays other than cantu can hit....
hr edge to rent, slightly at a 8 to 6 mark
rbis edge to rent, 70 to 59 but considering lugo played on a shitty team i think thats a wash
stolen bases edge to lugo 39 to 9
OBP edge to lugo, 362 to 335

errors edge to lugo 24 to 30
fielding % edge to lugo .968 to .954
range factor edge to lugo 4.94 to 4.35
and finally zone rating edge to lugo .841 to .809



just saying.
ok....maybe you didnt read what I said. If we're to move an All-star SS (that is other teams will pay for his services), we better get something else in the deal. We have needs...one of those being a first baseman. Tampa just so happens to have a first baseman who they can trade. His name is Huff. So, whoever is running the show trades Rent to Atl, Atl gives prospects to Tampa, and if we have too, we give someone to Tampa in order to bring Huff here. That solves 1B, and saves us money (I think). Its not about if Lugo is better, its about making a smart trade.

And by all accounts Rent had a bad year in the field. His 30 errors were unheard of.

But, despite the problems Renteria had last year, these are similar players. So why then would we just swap one out for another one? To save money? Why did we sign Renteria in the first place then? Something else is coming, I can feel it.

[crit]

bye bye rent. hello...andy marte?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2252297

[crit]

"The Sox could cut separate deals with Atlanta and Tampa Bay, sending Renteria to the Braves for Marte [that step is now done...] then using Marte as part of a bigger deal with Tampa Bay in which they would not only acquire the shortstop they have targeted, Julio Lugo, but also first baseman Aubrey Huff and/or closer Danys Baez. The Sox have shown interest in Huff in the past and that may be renewed after they failed to acquire Milwaukee first baseman Lyle Overbay. To make a bigger deal, the Sox would probably have to offer a package including Marte, catcher Kelly Shoppach, and pitcher Bronson Arroyo."

[Doug]

this is the dumbest offseason ever, jesus christ

[NetNerdsRevenge]

"The Sox could cut separate deals with Atlanta and Tampa Bay, sending Renteria to the Braves for Marte [that step is now done...] then using Marte as part of a bigger deal with Tampa Bay in which they would not only acquire the shortstop they have targeted, Julio Lugo, but also first baseman Aubrey Huff and/or closer Danys Baez. The Sox have shown interest in Huff in the past and that may be renewed after they failed to acquire Milwaukee first baseman Lyle Overbay. To make a bigger deal, the Sox would probably have to offer a package including Marte, catcher Kelly Shoppach, and pitcher Bronson Arroyo."
hey, looks like I was right

Doug, Why is this a dumb offseason? Besides the gm situation, Im pleased with everything so far.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

bye bye rent. hello...andy marte?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2252297
Makes no sense to hold on to Marte unless were going to trade Lowell or Youkilis. We have too many 3B. He will be moved for Lugo and Huff

[Doug]

Doug, Why is this a dumb offseason? Besides the gm situation, Im pleased with everything so far.


cause no one's staying in one place, it's not even january and think about how many high calibar players are on different teams, delgado, beckett, soriano, pierre, lowell, renteria, loretta, burnett, farnsworth, ryan, etc etc

[BuriedAlive]

cause no one's staying in one place, it's not even january and think about how many high calibar players are on different teams, delgado, beckett, soriano, pierre, lowell, renteria, loretta, burnett, farnsworth, ryan, etc etc
That's what sets baseball apart from all other sports. No house buying allowed!

[NetNerdsRevenge]

cause no one's staying in one place, it's not even january and think about how many high calibar players are on different teams, delgado, beckett, soriano, pierre, lowell, renteria, loretta, burnett, farnsworth, ryan, etc etc
I still don't see how this is dumb? The FA market sucks this year, and almost all of MLB is making moves to be winners. This is exciting. Although, I do understand what you’re talking about. It would be nice if guys could stay on a team for more than a couple years. Trades don’t help.

however, THIS IS FUN!

on a side note, looking over Marte's stats...dont trade him. Figure something out between the 3B men where one plays 1B and one gets traded, possibly for a SS. Marte has way to much upside to be flipped for average Lugo and Huff. Im officially on the "Keep Marte" bandwagon. Unless we get Dunn....

[Doug]

it was more, dumb=ridiculous, yeah, i'd like to keep marte around, trade youk or lowell

[LeftWideOpen]

I still don't see how this is dumb? The FA market sucks this year, and almost all of MLB is making moves to be winners. This is exciting. Although, I do understand what you’re talking about. It would be nice if guys could stay on a team for more than a couple years. Trades don’t help.

however, THIS IS FUN!

on a side note, looking over Marte's stats...dont trade him. Figure something out between the 3B men where one plays 1B and one gets traded, possibly for a SS. Marte has way to much upside to be flipped for average Lugo and Huff. Im officially on the "Keep Marte" bandwagon. Unless we get Dunn....

I'm with you. Keep Marte. Trade Youkilis, since nobody will take Lowell. Then move Lowell to 1B.

They still need to re-sign Damon, find a legit SS, and figure out the Manny situation though.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

I think Manny is staying. From all accounts ive heard, the FO phantom Gm has not been impressed with the deals they're getting. Here's how I want things to shake down

1. Youk (with a platoon which would change the order). I really just want to see this guy play. I love him, though he has higher trade value than Lowell. oh well, I think ill buy the Youkilis jersey ive always wanted...
2. loretta
3. ortiz
4. manny
5. abreu
6. NOMAH!
7. tek
8. marte
9. CF (I put this here because I dont want Damon for 4 years)

not bad.

[LeftWideOpen]

I think Manny is staying. From all accounts ive heard, the FO phantom Gm has not been impressed with the deals they're getting. Here's how I want things to shake down

1. Youk (with a platoon which would change the order). I really just want to see this guy play. I love him, though he has higher trade value than Lowell. oh well, I think ill buy the Youkilis jersey ive always wanted...
2. loretta
3. ortiz
4. manny
5. abreu
6. NOMAH!
7. tek
8. marte
9. CF (I put this here because I dont want Damon for 4 years)

not bad.

Nooo chance at Nomar ..he hates it here. He's the best FA left though at the position. I think you'll see Damon sign for 4 years at 40 mil, maybe 44 if the Sox are at the mercy of Boras. Manny stays ... Nixon could get traded but I think its unlikely ... Here's my best shot at the lineup going into next season ..

Damon
Loretta
Ortiz
Manny
Tek
Nixon
Lowell/Youkilis
Marte
SS ( Cora or some other cheap option)

The rotation is set and the bullpen is taking shape too. I'd use Arroyo in long relief/rotation insurance, hang on to Clement as a 5th starter, and trade Wells for a decent SS (Isturiz in LA?) and a bullpen arm. Hopefully they stop screwing around and keep it that simple.

[hockey0001]

I'm with you. Keep Marte. Trade Youkilis, since nobody will take Lowell. Then move Lowell to 1B.

They still need to re-sign Damon, find a legit SS, and figure out the Manny situation though.

Minnesota is supposedly interestein Lowell, and i think would give up either Rincon or Romero. There really isnt much interest in Youk around the league right now, if we keep him he should go to 1st, not Lowell.

[Doug]

marte isn't gonna start in boston next year

[LeftWideOpen]

marte isn't gonna start in boston next year

hes further along than Pedroia though. He may not be in the lineup on Opening Day, but by the beginning of summer I'd be shocked if he wasnt in the lineup, or another uniform.

[hockey0001]

marte isn't gonna start in boston next year

I bet by the All-star break or sometime around then he is seeing considerable time at 3rd.

[Doug]

i'd say there's more chance right now that pedroia would be starting opening day

[LeftWideOpen]

i'd say there's more chance right now that pedroia would be starting opening day

not with Loretta ahead of him. Marte was called up by Atlanta at the end of last year and saw some decent time (57 at bats). With Lowell signed beyond next season, it doesn't make sense to trade for Marte unless you are going to play him - or trade him. Pedroia, on the other hand, will probably spend next season in Pawtuckett until September call-ups, and take over 2B duties in 2007.

[astereo]

Hopefully manny will stay, we should have a pretty good lineup. I'm still a little down on there being no Billy Miller, he played all star calib. 3rd base. If Damon doesn't get resigned and Manny does leave, we'll have a completely different looking sox come april

[LeftWideOpen]

Hopefully manny will stay, we should have a pretty good lineup. I'm still a little down on there being no Billy Miller, he played all star calib. 3rd base. If Damon doesn't get resigned and Manny does leave, we'll have a completely different looking sox come april

I'd be shocked if Damon isnt re-signed. The Sox seem to want him and he's said all along he wants to be back. This whole "I could play for NY" thing and talks of playing elsewhere is just to scare the Sox into offering more money.

[Doug]

not with Loretta ahead of him. Marte was called up by Atlanta at the end of last year and saw some decent time (57 at bats). With Lowell signed beyond next season, it doesn't make sense to trade for Marte unless you are going to play him - or trade him. Pedroia, on the other hand, will probably spend next season in Pawtuckett until September call-ups, and take over 2B duties in 2007.

i meant at ss

[hockey0001]

not with Loretta ahead of him. Marte was called up by Atlanta at the end of last year and saw some decent time (57 at bats). With Lowell signed beyond next season, it doesn't make sense to trade for Marte unless you are going to play him - or trade him. Pedroia, on the other hand, will probably spend next season in Pawtuckett until September call-ups, and take over 2B duties in 2007.

It makes sense to trade for Marte if youre not gonna play him because he's considered by some to he the best prospect in all of baseball and you get out of Renteria's contract. Regardless of that, i think Lowell or Youk gets traded and Marte will get playing time this year.

[YouMadeTheScene]

I'm in the Red Sox I am keeping Marte. I mean I understand they want Lugo and so on, but there has to be some way Tampa would trade Lugo without seeing as they were close to picking him up before this trade.

[LeftWideOpen]

It makes sense to trade for Marte if youre not gonna play him because he's considered by some to he the best prospect in all of baseball and you get out of Renteria's contract. Regardless of that, i think Lowell or Youk gets traded and Marte will get playing time this year.

Yeah, but if you think about the vision behind the trade ..are they really going to sit Marte for 2 years behind Lowell? He's just about ready to play everyday. That's why I think they're either going to play him or trade him. Playing him would probably be a result of Lowell or Youk getting traded at some point (even if its at the trading deadline), so I agree with you on that.

[Doug]

tampa's not gonna trade lugo

[mikeford]

did someone seriously say they want Nomar back?

are you serious?

are you on drugs? do you not remember how he fucking quit on this team in 2004?

fuck Nomar. and yes, its Nomar. He lost the privaledge to be called Nomah when he decided to be a sourpuss little bitch during that series in Yankee Stadium.

[Doug]

hahahaha, i'd probly completely give up on next year if we got nomar back

[mikeford]

id probably stop being a red sox fan until lucchino died.

[Doug]

all lucchino is doing right now, is taking back all of theo's moves, so i wouldn't be suprised if we brough nomar, lowe, etc. back

[mikeford]

i hope someone shoots larry lucchino. son of a bitch.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

did someone seriously say they want Nomar back?

are you serious?

are you on drugs? do you not remember how he fucking quit on this team in 2004?

fuck Nomar. and yes, its Nomar. He lost the privaledge to be called Nomah when he decided to be a sourpuss little bitch during that series in Yankee Stadium.
Yes, bring his big nose back. have you realized that this not the 2004 team anymore? Times are changing… Nomar would be great for a 1 or 2 year deal at about 5-6 mil per. Despite all the history, I would love to see it.

Now, will it happen...probably not. I will always love the man, even with the 2004 season. 99 and 00 were the greatest SS seasons of my life. I miss you nomar.


i hope someone shoots larry lucchino. son of a bitch.
Why is it you hate Lucchino? Is it the new editions to the stadium? The new fan friendly Fenway? Is it Theo? because JWH has other things to say about it:

"I’m afraid very little is obvious except that Theo chose not to re-sign. Numbers past and present that were reported in the press were erroneous. But since we weren’t speaking to the press during the negotiation, the numbers became “facts.” But they were not facts. To state that we severely low-balled him, drug out the process and leaked disparaging information is simply not true."

Also saying: "There were times in the recent negotiation when Theo was not sure he wanted to do this for the long-term – that was an issue. And there were times he felt we did not value him enough. There were times we felt he was ambivalent and we did not want a GM who did not crave the position. There were times late when we weren’t on the same page monetarily. There were a number of reasons that although I thought for many months this was a slam dunk like the LL negotiation, it became apparent that there were issues"

Its ok if you still believe LL is and idiot, but dont forget, he wanted him as GM. Too think he was solely responsible for Theo leaving is being ignorant.


all lucchino is doing right now, is taking back all of theo's moves, so i wouldn't be suprised if we brough nomar, lowe, etc. back
What moves are these? From what i've read, its the Go4 who are making the moves, Luchhino just passes off on them.

hahahaha, i'd probly completely give up on next year if we got nomar back
ok genius, who do you want at SS? Tejada? I don’t see that working out (would be thrilled if it did, as long as we keep Lester). Right now Nomar is as good an option as anyone.

Yeah, but if you think about the vision behind the trade ..are they really going to sit Marte for 2 years behind Lowell? He's just about ready to play everyday. That's why I think they're either going to play him or trade him. Playing him would probably be a result of Lowell or Youk getting traded at some point (even if its at the trading deadline), so I agree with you on that.
If they attend to keep and play Marte, you may see him in the OF, opening up spots for both Youk and Lowell. If they want to keep him at third, either Youk or Lowell is out the door for pitching and maybe a CF. The other 3B who stays around will probably platoon at first. This is the only way I can see it with us keeping Marte. Unless we trade both Youk and Lowell, which would be stupid. Both Youkilis and Lowell can post an 800+ OPS.

If Marte is here, he has to get action. Give him limited at bats at the start of the season and work him in. If we keep Manny and make this Abreu trade, we can afford the mess at third. If Manny is gone we need to get provable RHH power in return *cough* Tejada *cough*.

[mikeford]

dude, lucchino is a scumbag. follow his career and you'll see why no one wants to be our GM.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

Thats all you have you say? What about what he's done for this team since he's been here....what about what JWH said about Theo? What about the fact LL wanted Theo to be his gm. How about LL going with two of Theo's guys to be co-gm?

LL may be an asshole, but he is a smart business man, and thats what this team needs.