This World Is A Really Fucked Up Place

[Frank Giaramita]

Last night, at Skrappy's in Tucson, AZ a man in his 20's, was allegedly shot to death while attending a Shattered Realm and Donnybrook show. The fight broke during out between two (or more) groups of people during Donnybrook's last song. Following the fight, the group(s) were thrown out of the venue and that's when all hell broke loose. According to sources, weapons such as hammers, machetes, gun(s) and brass knuckles were involved. Details are vague at the moment and I don't want to accidentally drop names of people who really weren't involved. Check out a video news report on the incident right here (http://mizar.azstarnet.com/movies/120705skrappys.mov)and read a witness account below. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of the victim... a night of enjoyment should never turn this ugly.

So, donnybrook was playing their last song and they told everyone to move and start dancing so my friends in on my honor run in and like 5 guys from FSU didnt want tucson kids dancing, so they beat the shit out of him.
So these guys from tucson (names removed) jump in to get them off, and (name removed) got his head split open and everyone was fucking eachother up.

Then the lady that owns skrappys got on stage and said thats it the shows over and FSU was like get off stage you fat bitch blah blah, started throwing the speakers on the floor and shit and then said everybody clear the fuck out we've got a machine gun blah blah, so everyone runs outside. Someone from FSU(some people are saying it was the lead singer of shattered realm but idk) chased (name removed) to his car, (name removed) got in and the FSU guy broke his car window open with a machetti and said "you know youre fucking dead right?" and (no name) pushed his gun up and shot the guy fired 4 shots.

So everyone in skrappys is in lockdown and they arent letting anyone leave and like, all the FSU guys are staring down the tucson kids talking shit.

And the lead singer of black my heart was talking to my friend (no name)(who witnessed fucking everything) and said he better not say shit to the cops and that if he opens his mouth he's fucked too. "

This is all I know, everything is still fuckin vague, kids are still in skrappys being investigated

Wednesday as Tucson police were interviewing dozens of witnesses and sorting out exactly who did the shooting, although they did not believe the shooter was on the loose, Batista said. Batista could not release any information about the others who were injured in the fight, but said that there were other weapons involved aside from the gun used in the shooting.

[jeffs night out]

God I'd love to see the crips fucking annihilate 'FSU' so bad. What a bunch of shit heads.

[Photo13]

:shake:

That is SO messed up. I keep reading about these kind of things happening in the states and it comes as a big shock because you don't get that kind of thing over here at shows. At least i've never heard anything about it or witnessed it.

Thoughts and prayers go out to the victims friends and family

[truestar1015]

Wow....

[Frank Giaramita]

It's just really upsetting to me. Like, music is supposed to be enjoyable. I could never ever imagine myself using it as a stomping ground for anything negative. For me, music was always an escape from the violence, aggression, and negativity in society... stuff like this should never happen. Never.

[odnetnin]

Well, I guess FSU is the new ICP. It sucks to know shows end up like this and now the venue maybe shut down.

[odnetnin]

And for the record, as of now, there are rumors that Joe hardcore was a victim.

[punklet2101]

woah, that is terrible.

[KarolaBloch]

thats such a sweet show too... sweet tour.. but thats really too bad. it sucks that stuff like that happens.

[NationalProduct]

It's just really upsetting to me. Like, music is supposed to be enjoyable. I could never ever imagine myself using it as a stomping ground for anything negative. For me, music was always an escape from the violence, aggression, and negativity in society... stuff like this should never happen. Never.

i agree

[muddysocks7]

who is "FSU?"

[KarolaBloch]

Friends Stand United.

[Frank Giaramita]

Friends Stand United.
Really? Haha, I always though it was "Fuck Shit Up". My friends and I have called it that for so long. Weird.

[fromwithin]

but come on that's what hardcore is about right. Just like bradley hathaway says: "You get mad and start a fight right? I think I may, I think I might take my insecurities out on that punk in the pit tonight." the truth is no one has taken a stand to be against what is done at hardcore shows, most everyone advocates it. then when the situation escalates, something like this happens. i'd feel bad but its a product of the environment. if you've ever been to a hardcore show you know what its like there. this is just a step further. the bands don't help either. i found these lyrics on donnybrook's myspace:

You better recognize this is not your fight, or I just might bust another head tonight.


music isn't like it used to be. more people are becoming exposed to a wider variety of music, and they don't always have control that most people do. and situations like this happen because "BEING TOUGH" is what they think is right, no matter what the cost.

[KarolaBloch]

please look at the lyrics for the xLooking Forwardx song "All Fun No Fights" i would type them out.. but i gotta go to class.

[rockoutaz]

reason number 147 why i fucking hate the city of tucson.

[johnarc]

I'd just like to say that if this isn't enough of a reason for tough guy hardcore to stop, I really don't know what is.

[actionandaction]

jesus christ.

[Tmovielife16]

i went to this tour in shamokin PA and im glad it was a small lesser known hard to get to place. there were only a few kids in FSU, but joe hardcore is like the fuckin leader of FSU in philly. i went to a BANE comeback kid, with honor show last year and he was there with his whole crew and were total assholes in the pit and shit. it really sucks to go to one of those shows just to see cool bands and they have to ruin it for everyone.

[VitalJ]

I am not suprised to hear a story like this. I mean come on, thats all hardcore kids do now and days is go to shows and once they see one thing they don't like they HAVE to fight someone, This is why venues close down and why the music scene gets fucked up. Good job

[Guy]

I am not suprised to hear a story like this. I mean come on, thats all hardcore kids do now and days is go to shows and once they see one thing they don't like they HAVE to fight someone, This is why venues close down and why the music scene gets fucked up. Good job
hahahhahahahahhahahah hardcore bands are funny

[thesewalls]

another reason for me not liking hardcore :)

[thescoremag]

this is the main reason why insurance rates for venues are going sky high. stupid mother f'ers think they can do all this shit and that no one is going to get affected. this place will get shut down now and sued and all that jazz and the bands will have one less place to play.

[singthblues]

so is FSU basically a nationwide crew?

[em0_stars]

FSU=straight outta boston, i guess they migrated.

This is really bad. I'm getting really into "hardcore" stuff now, and this makes me never want to go to a show, because off all this "tough guy" non-sense.

[The Dill]

We've got this band Cash-In around here in south Jersey with a line in one of their songs "This isn't fight club, this is show." Says it pretty well.

[VitalJ]

so is FSU basically a nationwide crew?
almost about

[em0_stars]

what happened to everyone standing together in hardcore? Doesn't the FSU defeat the purpose of that?

[Tmovielife16]

FSU=straight outta boston, i guess they migrated.

This is really bad. I'm getting really into "hardcore" stuff now, and this makes me never want to go to a show, because off all this "tough guy" non-sense.

they have different "divisions" in the country:

Boston (most famous)
Philly
New York
Jersey
Sacto
now tacoma i guess
a bunch of other places as well

[FrancesdaMute]

i went to this tour in shamokin PA and im glad it was a small lesser known hard to get to place. there were only a few kids in FSU, but joe hardcore is like the fuckin leader of FSU in philly. i went to a BANE comeback kid, with honor show last year and he was there with his whole crew and were total assholes in the pit and shit. it really sucks to go to one of those shows just to see cool bands and they have to ruin it for everyone.

I went to one hardcore show in philly...that was plenty enough. the kids are douche bags. God forbid I go to see bane and not have to fend for my life while I listen to good music.

[WordzandDreamz]

That's messed up.

[mrzippo3]

i've been tired of the lame hard core kids for almost 2 years now... ya give them plenty of room to kick and punch around and look stupid... and yes they still decide to fuck with everyone on the side, it's fucking annoying and i mean, it's about the music right? what happened to that?

[Lars]

I just hope those dipshits didn't mess things up too much. It's not just a venue, it's also a place for kids to hang out, not to mention it's where I first saw Northstar.

[Pass The Flask]

this is really sad. having to fear for your life when going to a show.

"hardcore" shows are usually amazingly fun and enjoyable. fights breaking out is a usual occurence at most of them and its become almost customary, but this is taking it way too far. its disgusting.

[Lars]

Also, I've watched the news report, and it was self-defense from the guy who was getting his windows busted out? I don't know, I have less pity for the shooting victims if that's the case. How does the thought process go, "I'm looking for a fight at the show tonight, better not forget the hammers and machetes?" I mean, what the hell?

Either way, there's no right in the situation.

[Guy]

I always bring my hammers and machetes to concerts, just in case a fight breaks out ya gotta be prepared. Saved my ass at that Eisley show last September.

[UndertheTELE]

this is pretty scary... dang.

who is FSU anyways? like a gang?

[patrickswayze]

this is pretty scary... dang.

who is FSU anyways? like a gang?
FSU (friends stand united) is a "crew" from boston. they have chapters in other states and members of it travel with certain bands with members in them. and yeah they are pretty much a gang.

[Rickywithoutyou]

holy shit


that is fucking awful

what idiots ...

[goddamngourd]

at least we know that they weren't wusses. i was gonna be really upset about this, but it's good to know that at least the idiots killing each other at shows like this are tough. their families will be glad to know that much.

[Slovo]

haha I thought FSU meant Florida State University...

Silly kids and their college book-learnin'

[muddysocks7]

wow... i googled this stuff and it's nuts... their is a whole stinkin' DVD apparently "documenting" stuff like this... www.crosscheckrecords.com (http://www.crosscheckrecords.com) there's also a review for it at http://www.citizinemag.com/music/music-0411_bostonbeatdown.htm

this stuff makes me really sad

this is from the description of the DVD

Boston Beatdown (http://www.bostonbeatdown.com/), Volume II, is a unique collaboration by some of Boston’s most influential hardcore heroes and bands. Be it the mayhem of a show, the violence of its aftermath, or the chaos of an ensuing riot, Volume II has captured it for the world to see. From the attack by hardcore kids on singer Moby to the sowing up of stab wounds on a living room couch, no other hardcore documentary has ever been so brutally honest and real. Featuring live performances and interviews from such bands as Blood For Blood, Death Before Dishonor, and Righteous Jams, and featuring never before seen footage by Wrecking Crew, In My Eyes, and Ten Yard Fight, “Volume II” has, in many eyes, already proven itself to be the hardest and most graphic look at the violent underworld of hardcore. Combined with exclusive interviews by founding members of Boston’s notorious FSU gang and scored by a soundtrack of some of Boston’s hardest music, Volume II, tells the story and history of Boston hardcore from past until present.

should make a sweet stocking stuffer....

[siimpx]

i guess i'm way out of it because i've never seen or even heard about any of this kind of stuff going on.

[noles05]

haha I thought FSU meant Florida State University...

Silly kids and their college book-learnin'

As did I.

[noles05]

i guess i'm way out of it because i've never seen or even heard about any of this kind of stuff going on.

I am too.

[TheOldJostler]

Violence on the "The Street Brutality Tour"? Never would have seen it coming.

The FSU 'documentary' is defended on the filmmaker's website in an interesting way: don't criticize our hardcore scene because a) violence is a fact of life common to all musical genres and b) hardcore shows = bruises, while other 'drinking and drug' genres = kids dying from overdoses. Well, touche.

[VitalJ]

wow... i googled this stuff and it's nuts... their is a whole stinkin' DVD apparently "documenting" stuff like this... www.crosscheckrecords.com (http://www.crosscheckrecords.com) there's also a review for it at http://www.citizinemag.com/music/music-0411_bostonbeatdown.htm

this stuff makes me really sad

this is from the description of the DVD

Boston Beatdown (http://www.bostonbeatdown.com/), Volume II, is a unique collaboration by some of Boston’s most influential hardcore heroes and bands. Be it the mayhem of a show, the violence of its aftermath, or the chaos of an ensuing riot, Volume II has captured it for the world to see. From the attack by hardcore kids on singer Moby to the sowing up of stab wounds on a living room couch, no other hardcore documentary has ever been so brutally honest and real. Featuring live performances and interviews from such bands as Blood For Blood, Death Before Dishonor, and Righteous Jams, and featuring never before seen footage by Wrecking Crew, In My Eyes, and Ten Yard Fight, “Volume II” has, in many eyes, already proven itself to be the hardest and most graphic look at the violent underworld of hardcore. Combined with exclusive interviews by founding members of Boston’s notorious FSU gang and scored by a soundtrack of some of Boston’s hardest music, Volume II, tells the story and history of Boston hardcore from past until present.

should make a sweet stocking stuffer....

There is a video in South Florida called like Dirty South Beatdown or something. its sad

[BrandNizzle182]

i dont know what to think about this so i just wont post at all...

[nicolerork]

.....

[Punkdc]

Fuck, being from SoCal I've been to my fair share of hardcore shows but never seen this shit go down. Like I saw Shai Hulud with the orginal members and they just let everyone go crazy, but everyone had respect for each other. Thats what I dont understand. Where did the respect go for music?

[patrickswayze]

wow... i googled this stuff and it's nuts... their is a whole stinkin' DVD apparently "documenting" stuff like this... www.crosscheckrecords.com (http://www.crosscheckrecords.com) there's also a review for it at http://www.citizinemag.com/music/music-0411_bostonbeatdown.htm

this stuff makes me really sad

this is from the description of the DVD

Boston Beatdown (http://www.bostonbeatdown.com/), Volume II, is a unique collaboration by some of Boston’s most influential hardcore heroes and bands. Be it the mayhem of a show, the violence of its aftermath, or the chaos of an ensuing riot, Volume II has captured it for the world to see. From the attack by hardcore kids on singer Moby to the sowing up of stab wounds on a living room couch, no other hardcore documentary has ever been so brutally honest and real. Featuring live performances and interviews from such bands as Blood For Blood, Death Before Dishonor, and Righteous Jams, and featuring never before seen footage by Wrecking Crew, In My Eyes, and Ten Yard Fight, “Volume II” has, in many eyes, already proven itself to be the hardest and most graphic look at the violent underworld of hardcore. Combined with exclusive interviews by founding members of Boston’s notorious FSU gang and scored by a soundtrack of some of Boston’s hardest music, Volume II, tells the story and history of Boston hardcore from past until present.

should make a sweet stocking stuffer....

yeah ive seen it, these guys started it (the group) with good intentions i think (which was to watch out for each other at shows). but they became what they started it to be against. its fucked up they beat up moby in that video...and he's a pacifist. not that i particularly like moby...but thats pretty messed up.

[Midtown19]

We should send these kids over to Iraq. If they want to defend something, at least have it be meaningful. I mean come on, killing people over hardcore music is the most warped thing imaginable. I really hope their parents are proud that they are making something of themselves in life defending the integrity of a stupid scene... So sad what brainwashing can do to a world...

Anyway, my thoughts and prayers with the victims family.

[cahrishurr]

yeah this about the most horrible thing ive heard in a few weeks

tough guy hardcore kids are cool..........yeahhhhhhhhh.....lol
actually they are pricks

[KarolaBloch]

hardcore suppose to be about unity.
i don't understand these kids.

[glitteratigrl]

this is truly sickening. but can someone tell me who or what FSU is?

[patrickswayze]

this is truly sickening. but can someone tell me who or what FSU is?

once again i guess.... friends stand united they are a crew from boston.

[cutrightthrough]

from 6 years of going to hardcore shows in philly and jersey ive seen the fsu crew in action a lot. every experience ive had with them is like the name says, friends stand united. they look out for each other and the other kids that are involved in the scene. everything from benefits for friends who are in need, to just weeding out the kids that are at the shows to start shit. the way these az kids described it, the fsu crew jumped people without being provoked, and that just doesnt sound like them. they had to do something to start this shit. at this point i say fuck tuscon, anyone in a band from the northeast, stop touring to az, it sucks and its hot there anyway, those kids dont deserve it. i hope to god its not joe that was shot, he's an awesome dude and he has a fucking family back here in philly. i dont know of too many other people recently that have contributed more to the scene here. shooting anyone is the most pussy move you can make in a fight

[KarolaBloch]

FSU is like a brotherhood. generally they go to shows and beat people up who don't have the same views as them. they have a mission to get their point across and take back the city. and yeah they stick up for eachother and look out for each other. some aspects aren't bad.. others are not my idea of acceptable.

[Flags of Dawn]

whats weird is this is almost exactly a year after the Dimebag incident.

[X__inhope]

shooting anyone is the most pussy move you can make in a fight

now, i wasn't there and don't know the full story but if given the choice to either shoot someone to save your life or to die, you would choose death?

[VitalJ]

We should send these kids over to Iraq. If they want to defend something, at least have it be meaningful. I mean come on, killing people over hardcore music is the most warped thing imaginable. I really hope their parents are proud that they are making something of themselves in life defending the integrity of a stupid scene... So sad what brainwashing can do to a world...

Anyway, my thoughts and prayers with the victims family.

I agree with you 150%

[FreddyKrueger]

Machetes? wtf

[MiltThompson]

shut up, everyone puts their two sense in and does nothing about what they consider a problem but give up on hardcore. I would love to see you kids at a show around 10 years ago, you would cry like little girls. most of the country is lucky skinheads died out. you would have alot of problems with your girls pants and eyeliner then

[VitalJ]

from 6 years of going to hardcore shows in philly and jersey ive seen the fsu crew in action a lot. every experience ive had with them is like the name says, friends stand united. they look out for each other and the other kids that are involved in the scene. everything from benefits for friends who are in need, to just weeding out the kids that are at the shows to start shit. the way these az kids described it, the fsu crew jumped people without being provoked, and that just doesnt sound like them. they had to do something to start this shit. at this point i say fuck tuscon, anyone in a band from the northeast, stop touring to az, it sucks and its hot there anyway, those kids dont deserve it. i hope to god its not joe that was shot, he's an awesome dude and he has a fucking family back here in philly. i dont know of too many other people recently that have contributed more to the scene here. shooting anyone is the most pussy move you can make in a fight

I don't think kids in tuscon care if those bands don't go back, shit i wouldn't want them back

[cutrightthrough]

why the fuck would you have a gun in your car when you go to a show in the first place? i always have an extendable police baton under my seat and a bat in my trunk, but guns have no place at a hardcore show.

[KarolaBloch]

you would have alot of problems with your girls pants and eyeliner then
i wouldn't make generalizations.

[cutrightthrough]

shut up, everyone puts their two sense in and does nothing about what they consider a problem but give up on hardcore. I would love to see you kids at a show around 10 years ago, you would cry like little girls. most of the country is lucky skinheads died out. you would have alot of problems with your girls pants and eyeliner then
i remember seeing skins at shows all the time even like 4-5 years ago. my friends brother was/is a sharp and we always went to shows with him and his friends. they were always fun times. and you are right, these kids wouldnt know what to do at a hardcore show with skins or anyone that was in on the scene 10 years back..edit:i dont think most of you kids would be able to handle a show in philly

[IAPAI]

with all due respect to the guy that died, hardcore music is fucking SHIT and this is another reason why.

by endorsing that level of violence and brutality, it's become the caucasian equivalent of fucking gangster rap.

[patrickswayze]

i remember seeing skins at shows all the time even like 4-5 years ago. my friends brother was/is a sharp and we always went to shows with him and his friends. they were always fun times. and you are right, these kids wouldnt know what to do at a hardcore show with skins or anyone that was in on the scene 10 years back..edit:i dont think most of you kids would be able to handle a show in philly

thats rediculous to say kids wouldnt know what do ten years ago....the point is to watch out for yourself and others around you but not become a bunch of dicks in the process.

and to the guy above me its not all like that....there isnt just the "gang" type of hardcore there's the "posi" stuff and hybrids and what not....

[cutrightthrough]

with all due respect to the guy that died, hardcore music is fucking SHIT and this is another reason why.

by endorsing that level of violence and brutality, it's become the caucasian equivalent of fucking gangster rap.

where the hells the ignore button on this message board. i dont think i can read any more of your completely ignorant posting about hardcore. go back to listening to fallout boy and putting on your eyeliner

[djUbilla]

where the hells the ignore button on this message board. i dont think i can read any more of your completely ignorant posting about hardcore. go back to listening to fallout boy and putting on your eyelinerAre you advocating violence in hardcore music? In any kind of music?

[new_deal13]

Also, I've watched the news report, and it was self-defense from the guy who was getting his windows busted out? I don't know, I have less pity for the shooting victims if that's the case. How does the thought process go, "I'm looking for a fight at the show tonight, better not forget the hammers and machetes?" I mean, what the hell?

Either way, there's no right in the situation.

Please remind me why it's legal in America to have handguns at all times.

[KarolaBloch]

with all due respect to the guy that died, hardcore music is fucking SHIT and this is another reason why.

by endorsing that level of violence and brutality, it's become the caucasian equivalent of fucking gangster rap.
dude... there are so many posi hardcore bands.. don't make ignorant statements

[st shellay]

That is horrible. I used to go to Skrappy's all the time when I lived there.

[onxpoint]

Boston (most famous, where you can get beaten up just for wearing a hardcore shirt and they dont know/like you)


this is so incorrect and retarded that it hurts my head

do the world a favor. don't talk about things that you know nothing of.

[X__inhope]

hardcore or not, shows should be about the music and having fun. years ago when i would go to a show, if someone got hurt or fell down in the pit, it was an accident and they would be helped up.

you should be able to go to a show without fearing for your life.

[cutrightthrough]

im not advocating violence. this kids making a generalization about one of the most passionate raw kinds of music out there. hardcore is something i love, and im defending it. people that dont know what theyre talking about(macbethindeath) should just keep their fucking mouths shut. and all you kids speculating about it being people from shattered realm involved or whatever, stop spreading rumors. thats some dumb ass high school bullshit. it wasnt them, thats all you need to know

[onxpoint]

from 6 years of going to hardcore shows in philly and jersey ive seen the fsu crew in action a lot. every experience ive had with them is like the name says, friends stand united. they look out for each other and the other kids that are involved in the scene. everything from benefits for friends who are in need, to just weeding out the kids that are at the shows to start shit. the way these az kids described it, the fsu crew jumped people without being provoked, and that just doesnt sound like them.

first intellegent thing posted on this entire subject.

[heytheredelilah]

maybe people will believe me now when i tell them arizona is hardcore

[odnetnin]

Also, I've watched the news report, and it was self-defense from the guy who was getting his windows busted out? I don't know, I have less pity for the shooting victims if that's the case. How does the thought process go, "I'm looking for a fight at the show tonight, better not forget the hammers and machetes?" I mean, what the hell?

Either way, there's no right in the situation.
It was not self defense. This guy has been bringing a gun to shows recently, mostly to show off. It was only a matter of time when he was going to shoot someone, he hates FSU. He also got away with it.

[Goodbye Forever]

im not advocating violence. this kids making a generalization about one of the most passionate raw kinds of music out there. hardcore is something i love, and im defending it. people that dont know what theyre talking about(macbethindeath) should just keep their fucking mouths shut. and all you kids speculating about it being people from shattered realm involved or whatever, stop spreading rumors. thats some dumb ass high school bullshit. it wasnt them, thats all you need to know

go back to listening to fallout boy and putting on your eyeliner

Cute.

[odnetnin]

from 6 years of going to hardcore shows in philly and jersey ive seen the fsu crew in action a lot. every experience ive had with them is like the name says, friends stand united. they look out for each other and the other kids that are involved in the scene. everything from benefits for friends who are in need, to just weeding out the kids that are at the shows to start shit. the way these az kids described it, the fsu crew jumped people without being provoked, and that just doesnt sound like them. they had to do something to start this shit. at this point i say fuck tuscon, anyone in a band from the northeast, stop touring to az, it sucks and its hot there anyway, those kids dont deserve it. i hope to god its not joe that was shot, he's an awesome dude and he has a fucking family back here in philly. i dont know of too many other people recently that have contributed more to the scene here. shooting anyone is the most pussy move you can make in a fight
Joe is in FSU. The kids that started the riot last night are in FSU. A lot of great music has come from Tucson and it has higher reputation in the underground music scene than Phoenix.

[splitsecond]

reason number 147 why i fucking hate the city of tucson.

First off, and this goes for the next guy I am quoting, Tucson kids rarely start shit. I lived there for 4 years, and my best friend has been going to Skrappys since the place originally opened. The Tucson scene is very elitist and thinks highly of themselves, but they tend to look out for people in the pit. Every single time there ae problems there that I have seen, it has been because of some phoenix tough guys coming down ad starting shit with someone they dont know. Dont get me wrong, the Tucson kids run their mouth like no other, and will all back someone up if attacked, but they generally just try and scare them off, because they have intense respet for the lady ho runs Skrappys (who makes very little money, and doesnt "own" it - it is a nonprofit venue that she runs just to give kids a place to go and a place for music). I wouldnt be surprised if this had nothing to do with anyone from Tucson.

from 6 years of going to hardcore shows in philly and jersey ive seen the fsu crew in action a lot. every experience ive had with them is like the name says, friends stand united. they look out for each other and the other kids that are involved in the scene. everything from benefits for friends who are in need, to just weeding out the kids that are at the shows to start shit. the way these az kids described it, the fsu crew jumped people without being provoked, and that just doesnt sound like them. they had to do something to start this shit. at this point i say fuck tuscon, anyone in a band from the northeast, stop touring to az, it sucks and its hot there anyway, those kids dont deserve it. i hope to god its not joe that was shot, he's an awesome dude and he has a fucking family back here in philly. i dont know of too many other people recently that have contributed more to the scene here. shooting anyone is the most pussy move you can make in a fight

Read what I just said. You really are going to stand up for this meathead bullshit? Pulling a gun in a fight is a pussy move (which it is) then what do you call chasing someone to their car with a machete? Thats really fucking brave isnt it?


Its funny, the first thing I thought when I head about this was "Go figure, its a bunch of Eulogy bands...."

[odnetnin]

whats weird is this is almost exactly a year after the Dimebag incident.
I thought it was a year after Dimebag and twenty five years after John Lennon.

[onxpoint]

Its funny, the first thing I thought when I head about this was "Go figure, its a bunch of Eulogy bands...."

what does eulogy have to do with anything? i toured with a eulogy band for a few years of my life, and avoided incidents completely

[patrickswayze]

First off, and this goes for the next guy I am quoting, Tucson kids rarely start shit. I lived there for 4 years, and my best friend has been going to Skrappys since the place originally opened. The Tucson scene is very elitist and thinks highly of themselves, but they tend to look out for people in the pit. Every single time there ae problems there that I have seen, it has been because of some phoenix tough guys coming down ad starting shit with someone they dont know. Dont get me wrong, the Tucson kids run their mouth like no other, and will all back someone up if attacked, but they generally just try and scare them off, because they have intense respet for the lady ho runs Skrappys (who makes very little money, and doesnt "own" it - it is a nonprofit venue that she runs just to give kids a place to go and a place for music). I wouldnt be surprised if this had nothing to do with anyone from Tucson.

thats the most accurate depiction of tucson thus far.

[Flags of Dawn]

I thought it was a year after Dimebag and twenty five years after John Lennon.
i forgot about the john lennon thing...was it the exact date? I was just guessing

[splitsecond]

And here is your update:

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/106053.php


"Tucson Police have identified a man fatally shot at a music club last night as Ray Darrin Pierson, 27, of Mesa."



Like I said, not fom Tucson.

[jaredc]

i hope joe hardcore died and had his body violated

[fugitive_alien]

A hardcore gang caled "Friends Stand United"? Too bad the BFFs wern't there.

But on a serious note. That is amazing fucked up, didn't know people could be that uptight about others having fun. Luckily that stuff doesn't happen here.

[ThriceBoy]

Really? Haha, I always though it was "Fuck Shit Up". My friends and I have called it that for so long. Weird.

idiot.

[onxpoint]

i hope joe hardcore died and had his body violated

have you ever met the dude in your life? wishing death on someone based on internet hearsay makes you pretty much a total fucking scumbag

[KarolaBloch]

idiot.
idiot.

[ThriceBoy]

FSU=straight outta boston, i guess they migrated.

This is really bad. I'm getting really into "hardcore" stuff now, and this makes me never want to go to a show, because off all this "tough guy" non-sense.

good stay out.

[splitsecond]

good stay out.

You dont want to run your mouth here meathead, you will get torn apart.

[Chemical Love]

Thats some fucked up stuff.

[Jacktheskipper]

good stay out.
Kids like you ruine it for a lot of people and kids like you are the reason I hate going to hardcore shows at the moment ...

[cutrightthrough]

i hope joe hardcore died and had his body violated

you are scum. it wasnt joe or any philly kids that died, but saying taht about someone you dont know is just fucked up.

[seancoia]

fsu = problems.

how do they always turn the blame on the other people?

[adozenroses]

damn i used to love hardcore, it seems as though its becoming dangerous to even listen to the genre...so do i have to watch my back when im wearing my Shai Hulud t-shirt? hope not...

[splitsecond]

Hard to believe that FSU and gay marriage came from the same city. I guess that just proves that toughguy hardcore is nothing more than latent and/or repressed homosexuality.

[jeweltosparkle]

good stay out.

Easy Thrice boy we can't all be as tough and hardcore as you :thumbsup:

[nintendocore]

Easy Thrice boy we can't all be as tough and hardcore as you :thumbsup:

my thought exactly.
i mean if thrice isn't the epitome of hardcore i'm not sure what is.

[fugitive_alien]

Easy Thrice boy we can't all be as tough and hardcore as you :thumbsup:

haha

[Tmovielife16]

Hard to believe that FSU and gay marriage came from the same city. I guess that just proves that toughguy hardcore is nothing more than latent and/or repressed homosexuality.

alright, and most grunge music came out of seattle as well as starbucks

does that mean that all grunge musicians love coffee?

your logic makes absolutely no fuckin sense

[BrokenWindow]

Fuck Donnybrook and everything they are apart of. That band is a group of the biggest assholes ever. There was a Hardcore Fest in Jacksonville earlier this year that turned into straight chaos about 30 mins into the show. Guess who was the culprit, Donnybrook. An innocent 40 year old man was thrown out of the club, for no reason except being old I guess and wanting to listen to music, and then brutally beaten in the street by some guys in Donnybrook. He was left on the street until someone finally called an ambulance for him.
Moral of story: Fuck these Deuchebrook guys

[KarolaBloch]

i like donnybrooks music.. idk what they are like in real life tho.

[Guy]

i like donnybrooks music.. idk what they are like in real life tho.
LIFESTYLLLLEEEEESSSS OF THE RICH AND THE FAMOUUUUUUUUUUUS

[ACA]

How about this:

If you go to a hardcore show, and you go in the pit--what happens in the pit, stays in the pit? First, though, no one should go into a pit with any sort of weapon. No one should also go into the pit with intentions of DOING HARM to anyone else. Pushing each other, dancing, throwing each other into others... fine, no problems there. Keep it HUMAN, for Christ's sake.

Even for hardcore shows, there's no need for shit to go on after the music stops.

But, alas, people are assholes. People in pits will intentionally try to punch people in the face, kick people in the chest, and draw blood in any manner necessary. I know for a fact that if I was being a decent person in a pit, and someone came up to me and busted me up for no reason, that I'd be pissed too.

I'm not advocating killing anyone "in the name of hardcore".

Assholes need to stay the fuck out of shows, which will never happen. It sucks the line has to be so blurred. In this incident, who was to blame? This account is ONE SIDE OF THE STORY.

Possible situations:

Guys dancing, FSU guy doesn't like him, and beats the fuck out him.

Guys dancing, FSU guys dancing, guy hits the FSU guy accidentally, and FSU beats ass.

Guys dancing, FSU guys dancing, and FSU guy hits guy dancing accidentally, and then fights.

Those are just three of the hundreds of things that could have lead to this point.

I'm trying to read this witness's report accurately, but I gather that someone in FSU broke the a window and told a guy he was gonna die, and a guy in the car killed the FSU guy. This is one side of the story. One account.

If that account is indeed true, and I was packing heat, and someone busted into my car with a machete, then I would have blown the motherfucker away. A threat and a long blade in my face is more than enough reason to incapacitate a threat.

These situations should all be avoided though. No one likes getting beaten up. If everyone would just respect each other (which you CAN DO while having a great pit) then this sort of thing would stop. It may be the first time this has resulted in death, but this is probably the 500th time this has happened around the country THIS YEAR ALONE.

Fights in pits that lead to altercations outside the venue are absolutely normal. See a show in North Jersey. Or Philadelphia. Or Atlantic City. Or New York City. Every showI go to, there's a fight in the pit that inevitably leads to a bigger fight/beatdown somewhere else, usually a block or so away from the venue. This shit isn't new, and it needs to fucking stop. But it won't.

-ACA

[awdeetdeet]

I've never had any problems the two times I have seen Donnybrook....

[I.O]

God I'd love to see the crips fucking annihilate 'FSU' so bad. What a bunch of shit heads.


Lets make an assumption on a whole group of people because of one incident. Thats cool

[splitsecond]

How about this:

If you go to a hardcore show, and you go in the pit--what happens in the pit, stays in the pit? First, though, no one should go into a pit with any sort of weapon. No one should also go into the pit with intentions of DOING HARM to anyone else. Pushing each other, dancing, throwing each other into others... fine, no problems there. Keep it HUMAN, for Christ's sake.

Even for hardcore shows, there's no need for shit to go on after the music stops.

But, alas, people are assholes. People in pits will intentionally try to punch people in the face, kick people in the chest, and draw blood in any manner necessary. I know for a fact that if I was being a decent person in a pit, and someone came up to me and busted me up for no reason, that I'd be pissed too.

I'm not advocating killing anyone "in the name of hardcore".

Assholes need to stay the fuck out of shows, which will never happen. It sucks the line has to be so blurred. In this incident, who was to blame? This account is ONE SIDE OF THE STORY.

Possible situations:

Guys dancing, FSU guy doesn't like him, and beats the fuck out him.

Guys dancing, FSU guys dancing, guy hits the FSU guy accidentally, and FSU beats ass.

Guys dancing, FSU guys dancing, and FSU guy hits guy dancing accidentally, and then fights.

Those are just three of the hundreds of things that could have lead to this point.

I'm trying to read this witness's report accurately, but I gather that someone in FSU broke the a window and told a guy he was gonna die, and a guy in the car killed the FSU guy. This is one side of the story. One account.

If that account is indeed true, and I was packing heat, and someone busted into my car with a machete, then I would have blown the motherfucker away. A threat and a long blade in my face is more than enough reason to incapacitate a threat.

These situations should all be avoided though. No one likes getting beaten up. If everyone would just respect each other (which you CAN DO while having a great pit) then this sort of thing would stop. It may be the first time this has resulted in death, but this is probably the 500th time this has happened around the country THIS YEAR ALONE.

Fights in pits that lead to altercations outside the venue are absolutely normal. See a show in North Jersey. Or Philadelphia. Or Atlantic City. Or New York City. Every showI go to, there's a fight in the pit that inevitably leads to a bigger fight/beatdown somewhere else, usually a block or so away from the venue. This shit isn't new, and it needs to fucking stop. But it won't.

-ACA

Very well said. And it seems to be getting worse too.

[xHittheWallx]

the description of that brawl sounds like the scene from Anchorman.

[heartxcore]

I'd just like to say that if this isn't enough of a reason for tough guy hardcore to stop, I really don't know what is.

Yea people need to cut the tought guy shit. i like hardcore, and i go to alot of shows, and its not like that here. Im sick of people ruining it, fuck that crew shit, fuck being "tough" because its "hardcore". Its not. people are taking some amazing stuff and making it hard for anyone to enjoy it. it pisses me off, its the same thing people have done with straight edge. its sad that you cant even go to a show anymore without worrying if you might get the shit beat outta you bc youre not wearing the right band tee or the right puffy coat with fur collar. FUCK THAT SHIT. people need to grow up and get a grip. Its about the music not the look, so fuck those "crews" and fuck those "bros". i say we get them out of here.

[overoverme]

Lets make an assumption on a whole group of people because of one incident. Thats cool

List some positive things about FSU please.
I have heard boatloads of negative things, mainly that they are basically a white gang of hardcore kids that think they are badasses by beating up random people.
So I really think his comment was pretty fair.

[jeffs night out]

Lets make an assumption on a whole group of people because of one incident. Thats cool

Are you that fucking stupid? It's been hundreds of incidents. These people are in published DVDs about beating people up. They brag about jumping people with overwhelming numbers. THEY BRING MACHETES TO SHOWS. And you make it sound like I'm condemning a group of people who have no choice. It's not as if I'm talking about black people, or women, or middle easterners. This is a group of people who choose to associate with a group synonomous with brutality and violence. You're clearly an idiot. Or maybe not. I kinda see what you're saying- it's like all those dudes in that other group who keep getting a bad rap for their buddies who crashed planes into those buildings!

[miltownrob]

wait, they beat up moby? thats pretty sweet if its true.

[I.O]

List some positive things about FSU please.
I have heard boatloads of negative things, mainly that they are basically a white gang of hardcore kids that think they are badasses by beating up random people.
So I really think his comment was pretty fair.

Ive been friends with a few members for many years, and I have seen them do many positive things for the hardcore scene. Run benefit shows for under privledged children,benifits to raise money for various causes. They helped weed out skinheads in the scene, not as many now, but a few years back it was a problem. Like any group of people there are some who take it to far and extreme, but you can say that with any grouping of people. To say ALL fsu members are out to hurt kids and ruin hadcore because of one individual or a few seperate occasions is wrong.

[mr fun]

Young men will never cease having to prove themselves. It's hard-wired into most of them (I'm not that young so I count myself out of that.) Give them weapons and put them into a room, shake it up, and usually you'll have combustion. However, now that's this has escalated to a shooting, the media will have a real field day. Expect secular venues to close & shows to be banned. This is the same kind of bullshit that killed the NYC scene in the early 90's and now it's ugliness has spread to other places.

[Mickey]

not too perpetuate a violent situation, but all these tough guy dudes need a shot to the head.
you know why kids bring guns to shows? becuase other kids bring machetes.

[I.O]

Are you that fucking stupid? It's been hundreds of incidents. These people are in published DVDs about beating people up. They brag about jumping people with overwhelming numbers. THEY BRING MACHETES TO SHOWS. And you make it sound like I'm condemning a group of people who have no choice. It's not as if I'm talking about black people, or women, or middle easterners. This is a group of people who choose to associate with a group synonomous with brutality and violence. You're clearly an idiot. Or maybe not. I kinda see what you're saying- it's like all those dudes in that other group who keep getting a bad rap for their buddies who crashed planes into those buildings!

Im not defending what was done, Im just saying you cant say they are all horrible people who are out to get everyone else based on actions of some of them, and not knowing the full story.

[Frank Giaramita]

a) violence is a fact of life common to all musical genres

The day I see a machetes, hammers, guns, knives, and brass knuckles at a Dashboard Confessional show is the day I tell you aren't completely off target with this statement...

Don't ever count on that happening.

[knux]

This is rediculous. I dont know anything about FSU, i am going to research them sounds wierd.

[Frank Giaramita]

Im not defending what was done, Im just saying you cant say they are all horrible people who are out to get everyone else based on actions of some of them, and not knowing the full story.

Your statement makes absolutely no sense man. Do you know what a "gang" or "clan" is? It's a group of people who have the same views and are willing to stand united and take the wrap for anything their fellow members engage in. What one of them does, represents what the gang, as a whole, does... that's what a fucking gang is. Haha.

When you sign up to become a part of something like FSU, you're agreeing to be associated and lumped in with anything anybody in the gang does. If these people are going to group themselves together, they should expect to be judged as a group...not as individuals.

[odnetnin]

Fascinating

[BrownGuyMark]

so is FSU basically a nationwide crew?

They started in boston and have chapters in most every major US city now. So Cal's infamous "Doom Crew" have adopted the name FSU and brought it over here.

I know a bunch of kids out here who absolutely refuse to dance if there's a show where FSU will be present ie. Terror/Donnybrook/Internal Affairs show. Terror and Donnybrook! are banned from the Whisky in Hollywood for "inciting a riot".

FSU has a violent history, but they also stop more fights than they start ie....hardcore kids and metal heads

Whether you love them or hate them...anyone that knows Donnybrook and their reputation knows they don't fuck around.

[Riki]

Further proving how lame America is, the UK has nothing like this. There is VERY VERY rarely violence at shows here, even at hardcore shows.

There used to be a problem with nazi punks going to punk shows and beating people up, but that kind of died out in everywhere but acky.. The only good thing about this story is that it seems to be idiots fighting idiots.

Even the most mainstream alternative kids who like things like blink182 newfound glory e.t.c are in the minority in the uk (by far), so for me going to shows is about being around people more like urself, about not being the odd one out. Anyone who buys into hardcore ideology take a machete to a show is an absolute fucking moron.

[Crimson_Curse]

man, I went to a show on this tour...and there was a fight between some skinheads and some hardcore kids...


needles to say the hardcore kids got their asses demolished...

[Paul Tao]

wait, they beat up moby? thats pretty sweet if its true.
yeah, hardcore meatheads beating down a skinny little pacifist vegan guy is hilarious.

[DroppedUrPocket]

*spinkick*

This is ridiculous.

[BrownGuyMark]

are fsu against dancing?

no. but if you aren't down with them and do something they don't like....things won't work out well for you.

[cutrightthrough]

ive been at shows that fsu members were at and had no problems. ive dove off stages onto them, been in huge pile ons with them, been in the pit with them, never had a single fucking problem. theyve done more good for the people involved in hardcore out here in nj/philly area than anyone else i can think of in the past 4-5 years. you go to a show and see fsu shirts all over the place and its almost like a police presence, except when they beat the shit outta someone, they have it coming. unless you're involved and contributing to the hardcore scene, keep your fucking mouth shut

[BrownGuyMark]

dude... there are so many posi hardcore bands.. don't make ignorant statements
thank you

[BrownGuyMark]

please look at the lyrics for the xLooking Forwardx song "All Fun No Fights" i would type them out.. but i gotta go to class.
one of the better bands in hardcore right now. i love those dudes.

[cutrightthrough]

List some positive things about FSU please.
I have heard boatloads of negative things, mainly that they are basically a white gang of hardcore kids that think they are badasses by beating up random people.
So I really think his comment was pretty fair.

look through my posts in this thread. there used to be a bunch of asshole nazi skinheads in the philly and boston scenes. they dont come out to shows anymore. thats just one of the hundreds of positive things fsu has contributed to this community

[Vic7im of Life]

Thats sad that weapons were used. This whole FSU thing is quite interesting.

[GetWellBoss]

Alright, im a little late posting this. So after reading all this shit.....

First, I HONESTLY dont think this has anything to do with FSU. here is why. I grew up at skrappy's. I was there when it was opened in 96 and I continued going there til I moved to PA this last year. Phoenix hardcore kids and Tucson kids have never EVER gotten along. It originally started when Phoenix hardcore bands would come and play and as a band would kick the shit out of the kids in the pit. So the kids in Tucson started dancing harder and eventually got better at it and then the Phoenix kids started getting annoyed cause they couldnt bully these kids out of the pit. So then they began starting fights. Then about 4-5 years ago small weapons like brass knuckles were being brought to shows so when the fights went outside...shit went down. Well knuckles led to pipes which led to knives and i guess we have ended up with the thing we have been fearing all along...guns. Everyone who has been an active part at Skrappy's knew this day was going to come and that is why Kathy(the Owner/Manager) of Skrappy's didn't want to do hardcore shows anymore(that and the insurance is insane for hardcore shows). But the kids in Tucson still wanted them so she said, if you want them book them. So they did....

Tucson has an amazing underground scene. Actually a lot better than phoenix. Why do you think phoenix kids come to all the shows and start shit? BECAUSE THESE SHOWS DONT GO TO PHOENIX. If they did, would you drive 2 hours to see them again? Well maybe if you loved them that much...but in this scenario they would just go to phoenix.

FSU has most likely done many great things. The benefits, fundraisers and community service are all great achievements for any group. But my question, is it really helping the community if you are only helping one group? Look at a group out of LA called the Bloods. Coming from low economic neighborhoods this group puts money in their friends and families pockets that allows them to have shelter, food, and transportation. Keeps out the people that might cause them harm(other groups, much like skinheads) and has created a semi-safe and stable environment for their loved ones. BUT AT WHAT COST? Shouldn't good things help the global community, not just the community in which you associate yourself with? Just a thought.

Finally. The scene will never change, it will only die out in places that can't keep up with the alpha groups. Most likely Tucson will have rare to no more hardcore shows because of this event. Insurance rates will sky rocket, parents won't let the kids(also for you old elitists, the NEXT GENERATION TO CARRY ON YOUR MUSIC) go to shows anymore, and finally these elite bands wont tour in the city and will fail to expand on their fan base and eventually they too will die out and have to go find jobs pumping gas, working for the post office, being a cook at a local Applebee's. Whatever will hire someone to pay the bills. Welcome to how life works. Hardcore is the new Disco.

Also just a quick note. All the people saying they go to hardcore shows all the time and dont see this shit, means you arent really going to hardcore shows. Underoath, From Autumn to Ashes, Senses Fail and all those other bands that scream (which i do listen to also) are not hardcore. when you get to a true hardcore show you will know.

[distinctkicking]

i read some posts about what fsu stands for and where they are located... but like, what the hell is it?

btw, ive been going to shows in ny for many years, and this is the first ive ever heard of it. is it a new thing, or am i just out of the loop.

from your guys' description, it kind of reminds me of nazi punk and stuff like that. but again, i dont really know anything about it. do they have issues/beliefs/etc?

[distinctkicking]

Alright, im a little late posting this. So after reading all this shit.....

First, I HONESTLY dont think this has anything to do with FSU. here is why. I grew up at skrappy's. I was there when it was opened in 96 and I continued going there til I moved to PA this last year. Phoenix hardcore kids and Tucson kids have never EVER gotten along. It originally started when Phoenix hardcore bands would come and play and as a band would kick the shit out of the kids in the pit. So the kids in Tucson started dancing harder and eventually got better at it and then the Phoenix kids started getting annoyed cause they couldnt bully these kids out of the pit. So then they began starting fights. Then about 4-5 years ago small weapons like brass knuckles were being brought to shows so when the fights went outside...shit went down. Well knuckles led to pipes which led to knives and i guess we have ended up with the thing we have been fearing all along...guns. Everyone who has been an active part at Skrappy's knew this day was going to come and that is why Kathy(the Owner/Manager) of Skrappy's didn't want to do hardcore shows anymore(that and the insurance is insane for hardcore shows). But the kids in Tucson still wanted them so she said, if you want them book them. So they did....

Tucson has an amazing underground scene. Actually a lot better than phoenix. Why do you think phoenix kids come to all the shows and start shit? BECAUSE THESE SHOWS DONT GO TO PHOENIX. If they did, would you drive 2 hours to see them again? Well maybe if you loved them that much...but in this scenario they would just go to phoenix.

FSU has most likely done many great things. The benefits, fundraisers and community service are all great achievements for any group. But my question, is it really helping the community if you are only helping one group? Look at a group out of LA called the Bloods. Coming from low economic neighborhoods this group puts money in their friends and families pockets that allows them to have shelter, food, and transportation. Keeps out the people that might cause them harm(other groups, much like skinheads) and has created a semi-safe and stable environment for their loved ones. BUT AT WHAT COST? Shouldn't good things help the global community, not just the community in which you associate yourself with? Just a thought.

Finally. The scene will never change, it will only die out in places that can't keep up with the alpha groups. Most likely Tucson will have rare to no more hardcore shows because of this event. Insurance rates will sky rocket, parents won't let the kids(also for you old elitists, the NEXT GENERATION TO CARRY ON YOUR MUSIC) go to shows anymore, and finally these elite bands wont tour in the city and will fail to expand on their fan base and eventually they too will die out and have to go find jobs pumping gas, working for the post office, being a cook at a local Applebee's. Whatever will hire someone to pay the bills. Welcome to how life works. Hardcore is the new Disco.

Also just a quick note. All the people saying they go to hardcore shows all the time and dont see this shit, means you arent really going to hardcore shows. Underoath, From Autumn to Ashes, Senses Fail and all those other bands that scream (which i do listen to also) are not hardcore. when you get to a true hardcore show you will know.
it sounds like 80s hardcore.

[KarolaBloch]

hardcore kids are ALMOST as gay as emo kids

that's why this happened

hardcore kids are fucking retarded
wrong statement in two ways. you can't lump the actions of a one group to discribe a whole number of kids fro maround the world who like hardcore. plus the almost as gay as emo kids.. its very overused.. like who makes fun of emo kids still? plus i don't think there is such thing as a real emo kid anymore.

it's such bullshit that people can't go to shows anymore because of a bunch of kids who go to shows to be hardasses

thats all they are doing

hardcore kids just want to be "hard" an dtheir defintion of "hard" is floor punching and kicking people in the face at a show with a band that most usually isn't that great to begin with
ok i will agree with it is sad that people can't go to shows. because the scene is totally messed up and it sucks that people fight. thats not hardcore. these kids are just chumps. but there are many hardcore shows you can go to and if people get hit in the pit they will laugh with eachother. there are some really nice hardcore kids who don't want to hurt anyone. they just want to dance and have fun all night.. and to me those are the true hardcore kids.

[ThriftWhore]

Also just a quick note. All the people saying they go to hardcore shows all the time and dont see this shit, means you arent really going to hardcore shows. Underoath, From Autumn to Ashes, Senses Fail and all those other bands that scream (which i do listen to also) are not hardcore. when you get to a true hardcore show you will know.
I was okay with everything you had to say except when you mentioned FATA. You come to Long Island and see them in concert and you tell me that its not a hardcore show.

[pretty_in_punk3]

that's insane.

[jerkstore20]

there's nothing I, as one singular person, can say to change what has happened, or what could be happen in the future. but as a group united, we can. shit like this never happens in columbus, ohio, so i don't know exactly what i am capable of doing to truly help, but i started a group a while back that has grown pretty steadily. i'd love for ya'll to join it.

http://groups.myspace.com/stopshowviolence

TRUE TIL DEATH.
Jason.

[GetWellBoss]

I was okay with everything you had to say except when you mentioned FATA. You come to Long Island and see them in concert and you tell me that its not a hardcore show.

Well I meant more of the crowd, not the intensity or dancing types. Of course bands that make it from their hometown will have a larger more intense turnout.

EDIT: I meant more when you look at the crowd, typical hardcore kids(not tight jeans/eyeliner/trendy hair)...more jerseys, new balance, camo pants....i mean you can just tell. FATA has many hardcore qualities about them breakdowns, the way he screams, but if you list them as a hardcore band to a group of "hardcore kids" most likely they would laugh at you.(But truthfully most likely they know every single word on their album).

[splitsecond]

there's nothing I, as one singular person, can say to change what has happened, or what could be happen in the future. but as a group united, we can. shit like this never happens in columbus, ohio, so i don't know exactly what i am capable of doing to truly help, but i started a group a while back that has grown pretty steadily. i'd love for ya'll to join it.

http://groups.myspace.com/stopshowviolence

TRUE TIL DEATH.
Jason.

Dimebag Darrell got shot in Columbus, no?

[The Dill]

How about we stop talking about hardcore "kids"... most of FSU has been around a long time and are in their mid to late 30's, and the man who died was 27.

[Rxbandit22]

This is why I only go to ska shows.
Peace, Love and Unity.
The way it is supposed to be.

[jeffs night out]

Yeah but then you've gotta sit through all that shitty music. SO HARD TO FIND A BALANCE!

[BrownGuyMark]

hardcore kids are ALMOST as gay as me

that's why this happened

I am fucking retarded

agreed.

If you know nothing of the subject, you are better off keeping your mouth shut than just spewing out random nonsense.

one problem I've seen in alot of scenes is new kids thinking they have something to prove, who try and dance harder than everyone else and being that they're still in high school..bring their high school drama to these shows.

Vegas kids can't keep a venue open for that very reason.

[jerkstore20]

skinheads haven't died out, you jackass. they just stopped doing the hardcore/punk rock thing because they finally realized it wasn't going to work as well as they hoped. there's still more skinheads out there now than there have been in decades. i'm so sick and fucking tired of 'old school' people getting on the internet and talking shit about what happened to this and that. give me a fucking break. it's been years and years since anything you give a shit about was relevant. the world changes every day. it's not the fault of the kids that go to shows now, or the bands they go see. people evolve and grow up. unfortunately, some people, like you mr. fuckhead, do not. you live in your past glory, assuring yourself that you're still the baddest dudestorm in the neightborhood until one day you get knocked the fuck out. go back to your trailer park, drink your Pabst's Blue Ribbon, and daydream about your first hardcore show there. leave everyone who doesn't give a fuck about you out of it.

TRUE TIL DEATH.
Jason.


shut up, everyone puts their two sense in and does nothing about what they consider a problem but give up on hardcore. I would love to see you kids at a show around 10 years ago, you would cry like little girls. most of the country is lucky skinheads died out. you would have alot of problems with your girls pants and eyeliner then

[GetWellBoss]

How about we stop talking about hardcore "kids"... most of FSU has been around a long time and are in their mid to late 30's, and the man who died was 27.

Sorry, i still consider that guy who died as a kid. Generalization? yes. but how they act, no. From now on i'll just say hardcore people.

[anyhizzy]

i would love for 99% of you to saw shit like youre saying OFFLINE. because seriously, you will get beat up and you will deserve it. theres about 3 or 4 people who actually know what theyre talking about when it comes to hardcore.

Im not trying to say what happened was right, because its not. but if you go to hardcore shows long enough, you know who not to mess around with.

I would much rather have FSU or Courage Crew in my scene than a bunch of little ***got kids who think they can dance and know what the hell theyre talking about when they've only been in the scene for 6 months.

"these are my friends, i have their backs, they are the closest thing to blood that i have"
black my heart, bitches.

don't go running your mouth about how FSU is shit and therye all meatheads. maybe some are. but these dudes have probably been together longer than you can remember. and to me, theres nothing better than brotherhood. posi or not, its good to know that people have your back and you can count on them.

[blinkdude127]

holly fuck, my friend went to the donnybrook/hoods show in el paso just on like tuesday

[jerkstore20]

yeah, but that was totally different from this. that was a crazy guy who was convinced he had written a lot of Pantera's words and music, but yet they wouldn't give him any credit. so he snuck in the backdoor of the venue, ran up on stage, and started firing right in DD's face. it was simply a lack of security measures and insane determination from someone who was legally insane. and he had tried something like this in the past in Dayton with one of the Pantera offshoot bands, but i can't remember which one or when off the top of my head. so yeah.

TRUE TIL DEATH.
Jason.


Dimebag Darrell got shot in Columbus, no?

[ACA]

Alright, im a little late posting this. So after reading all this shit.....

First, I HONESTLY dont think this has anything to do with FSU. here is why. I grew up at skrappy's. I was there when it was opened in 96 and I continued going there til I moved to PA this last year. Phoenix hardcore kids and Tucson kids have never EVER gotten along. It originally started when Phoenix hardcore bands would come and play and as a band would kick the shit out of the kids in the pit. So the kids in Tucson started dancing harder and eventually got better at it and then the Phoenix kids started getting annoyed cause they couldnt bully these kids out of the pit. So then they began starting fights. Then about 4-5 years ago small weapons like brass knuckles were being brought to shows so when the fights went outside...shit went down. Well knuckles led to pipes which led to knives and i guess we have ended up with the thing we have been fearing all along...guns. Everyone who has been an active part at Skrappy's knew this day was going to come and that is why Kathy(the Owner/Manager) of Skrappy's didn't want to do hardcore shows anymore(that and the insurance is insane for hardcore shows). But the kids in Tucson still wanted them so she said, if you want them book them. So they did....

Tucson has an amazing underground scene. Actually a lot better than phoenix. Why do you think phoenix kids come to all the shows and start shit? BECAUSE THESE SHOWS DONT GO TO PHOENIX. If they did, would you drive 2 hours to see them again? Well maybe if you loved them that much...but in this scenario they would just go to phoenix.

FSU has most likely done many great things. The benefits, fundraisers and community service are all great achievements for any group. But my question, is it really helping the community if you are only helping one group? Look at a group out of LA called the Bloods. Coming from low economic neighborhoods this group puts money in their friends and families pockets that allows them to have shelter, food, and transportation. Keeps out the people that might cause them harm(other groups, much like skinheads) and has created a semi-safe and stable environment for their loved ones. BUT AT WHAT COST? Shouldn't good things help the global community, not just the community in which you associate yourself with? Just a thought.

Finally. The scene will never change, it will only die out in places that can't keep up with the alpha groups. Most likely Tucson will have rare to no more hardcore shows because of this event. Insurance rates will sky rocket, parents won't let the kids(also for you old elitists, the NEXT GENERATION TO CARRY ON YOUR MUSIC) go to shows anymore, and finally these elite bands wont tour in the city and will fail to expand on their fan base and eventually they too will die out and have to go find jobs pumping gas, working for the post office, being a cook at a local Applebee's. Whatever will hire someone to pay the bills. Welcome to how life works. Hardcore is the new Disco.

Also just a quick note. All the people saying they go to hardcore shows all the time and dont see this shit, means you arent really going to hardcore shows. Underoath, From Autumn to Ashes, Senses Fail and all those other bands that scream (which i do listen to also) are not hardcore. when you get to a true hardcore show you will know.

A good read.

The last line is good. Most people on this board do NOT listen to hardcore music or go to true hardcore shows. I listen to a little true hardcore, and I see even fewer hardcore shows.

If the band is on a big label (see Victory, Island, Columbia, Warner Bros) then *chances* are that the show is not hardcore. Some bands now on major labels were once hardcore, but no longer.

The thing is, hardcore kids stop going to hardcore shows when the band becomes popular: that is why shows like Underoath aren't hardcore anymore (that, and their new CD isn't). If you were to see Underoath 4 years ago, you would (most likely) be seeing a hardcore show.

Five years ago, no one liked Atreyu. No one knew Underoath--these shows were for the few who heard them. As this type of music becomes more accepted, bands that were once thought of as playing "hardcore shows" are no longer doing that.. hell, last Christmas I heard Underoath over the PA of BEST BUY. Sort of how you hear Christmas music--well this was Underoath.

Bands like My Chemical Romance (while no means "hardcore") are all over the place. Five years ago, their genre would be laughed off the radio.

I do remember a time when hardcore shows took place regularly in Philadelphia--girls didn't go. Period. Little kids sure as fuck didn't go. It was for tough guys, aged 16-25, who went to these shows. Philadelphia has a huge history of hardcore (I mention this because I am from that area--I'm sure many other cities can claim a nice history as well, but I speak from experience not from my ass).

Most people on this board, and most fans of bands like My Chemcial Romance (who I love, and have loved, since I've seen them rock out living rooms), have never been to a hardcore show. A hardcore show doesn't have barriers. The band's microphones are the fans' microphones. The singer doesn't stand on stage--he walks around the crowd, starting shit with anyone and everyone.

I only feel the need to say this because many (not all!) comments on this thread show that the poster has never seen a hardcore show.

Hardcore shows don't have girls, and if they do, the girls aren't on the floor--they're in the back, fearing for their faces, because true "hardcore shows" are fucking violent, bloody, and not for the weak.

-ACA

[jerkstore20]

this is the dumbest thing i've ever fucking read. "when you go to shows long enough, you know who not to mess with." that's the biggest crock of shit i've ever had the unfortunate luck of stepping in. you shouldn't have to worry about messing with anyone, or anyone messing with you at a show. i've been to enough to know, just like you, little missy. i don't need anyone hovering around the crowd waiting to kick some kid's ass for one wrong little move. i'm more than capable of walking over to him myself and asking him politely not to do that. if he does it again, well, there's security for that. i don't need a bunch of tough guys to kick the living shit out of him and then maybe chase him to his car and shoot him in the face. fuck that, fuck those people, and fuck you. if you were right here, right now, i'd say every word of this to your face. i don't give a fuck how tough you think you are over the internet. go ahead, call me a ***got. i'll be wearing a My Chemical Romance t-shirt when i spit in your face and then have the guts to just walk away because nothing would be better than seeing that feeling of utter spite in your eyes when there's nothing you can do about it. bitch.

TRUE TIL DEATH.
Jason.



i would love for 99% of you to saw shit like youre saying OFFLINE. because seriously, you will get beat up and you will deserve it. theres about 3 or 4 people who actually know what theyre talking about when it comes to hardcore.

Im not trying to say what happened was right, because its not. but if you go to hardcore shows long enough, you know who not to mess around with.

I would much rather have FSU or Courage Crew in my scene than a bunch of little ***got kids who think they can dance and know what the hell theyre talking about when they've only been in the scene for 6 months.

"these are my friends, i have their backs, they are the closest thing to blood that i have"
black my heart, bitches.

don't go running your mouth about how FSU is shit and therye all meatheads. maybe some are. but these dudes have probably been together longer than you can remember. and to me, theres nothing better than brotherhood. posi or not, its good to know that people have your back and you can count on them.

[starcrossdlovex]

Please remind me why it's legal in America to have handguns at all times.
Because if it wasn't, people would still find some way to have them & we'd have no way to defend ourselves against them?

it sucks when violence takes over the music at shows.
It should always be about the music, leave everything else at the stage.

[therecord]

did they really beat moby up?

[anyhizzy]

Hardcore shows don't have girls, and if they do, the girls aren't on the floor--they're in the back, fearing for their faces, because true "hardcore shows" are fucking violent, bloody, and not for the weak.

-ACA

thanks for saying me(and other girls in the scene) are weak and cant take getting hurt.... sike.

i can hold my own and so can a lot of girls in detroit. thank you.

god damn i hate guys who think they have to protect us..

[smokedsanity]

i would love for 99% of you to saw shit like youre saying OFFLINE. because seriously, you will get beat up and you will deserve it. theres about 3 or 4 people who actually know what theyre talking about when it comes to hardcore.

Im not trying to say what happened was right, because its not. but if you go to hardcore shows long enough, you know who not to mess around with.

I would much rather have FSU or Courage Crew in my scene than a bunch of little ***got kids who think they can dance and know what the hell theyre talking about when they've only been in the scene for 6 months.

"these are my friends, i have their backs, they are the closest thing to blood that i have"
black my heart, bitches.

don't go running your mouth about how FSU is shit and therye all meatheads. maybe some are. but these dudes have probably been together longer than you can remember. and to me, theres nothing better than brotherhood. posi or not, its good to know that people have your back and you can count on them.

Seriously, did you read any of that before you posted it? Someone deserves to get their ass beat for talking about things that they may not know much about? Then I guess everyone should get an ass beating, because at some point our lives we've all talked about something that we didn't know much about. You say that what happened was not right. I'm going to assume that you don't really approve of the other violence that takes place. BUT you do condone the "crews" and that mess. Well, you wouldn't need a "crew" or "someone to have your back" if it wasn't for the violence. Anyway, I believe that if you are going to be a "badass" and fight (which there is really no point in doing), you should fight for yourself, not have 20 of your friends help you. About this "brotherhood", I would personally rather not have my friends risking their health (or death, in this case) over some bullshit need to fight. Seriously, grow up. I don't know enough about these "crews" to make a judgement but from what you just said, you need to get a clue.

[DroppedUrPocket]

http://alexstram.com/albums/2005-01-03/IMG_0335.jpg

Haha. I love that picture and the billions of photoshops it has spawned.

[KarolaBloch]

"these are my friends, i have their backs, they are the closest thing to blood that i have"
black my heart, bitches.
word hoe. black my heart owns.

[anyhizzy]

this is the dumbest thing i've ever fucking read. "when you go to shows long enough, you know who not to mess with." that's the biggest crock of shit i've ever had the unfortunate luck of stepping in. you shouldn't have to worry about messing with anyone, or anyone messing with you at a show. i've been to enough to know, just like you, little missy. i don't need anyone hovering around the crowd waiting to kick some kid's ass for one wrong little move. i'm more than capable of walking over to him myself and asking him politely not to do that. if he does it again, well, there's security for that. i don't need a bunch of tough guys to kick the living shit out of him and then maybe chase him to his car and shoot him in the face. fuck that, fuck those people, and fuck you. if you were right here, right now, i'd say every word of this to your face. i don't give a fuck how tough you think you are over the internet. go ahead, call me a ***got. i'll be wearing a My Chemical Romance t-shirt when i spit in your face and then have the guts to just walk away because nothing would be better than seeing that feeling of utter spite in your eyes when there's nothing you can do about it. bitch.

TRUE TIL DEATH.
Jason.

columbus has a real drama filled scene from what i hear from my friends that live there. but then again, i talk a lot of shit over the internet so i probably dont know shit, right? wrong. i know what the hell im talking about. i do have friends in other cities(including philly) and its the same everywhere. you always have to watch your back at shows like these. mostly, its nothing personal. shit happens. get over it. just stay out of the people who do cause troubles way and you dont get hurt. easy as that.

you look like a real classy guy to threaten to spit in a girls face. too bad it would never happen and i would never let you walk away without saying shit. KEEP IT POSI BRAH!

[anyhizzy]

http://alexstram.com/albums/2005-01-03/IMG_0335.jpg

any girl that looks like that when they dance deserves to be made fun of. but please dont generalize that all of us look like that and dance like that.

atleast that picture is hilarious. especially the kids in the background.

[anyhizzy]

Seriously, did you read any of that before you posted it? Someone deserves to get their ass beat for talking about things that they may not know much about? Then I guess everyone should get an ass beating, because at some point our lives we've all talked about something that we didn't know much about. You say that what happened was not right. I'm going to assume that you don't really approve of the other violence that takes place. BUT you do condone the "crews" and that mess. Well, you wouldn't need a "crew" or "someone to have your back" if it wasn't for the violence. Anyway, I believe that if you are going to be a "badass" and fight (which there is really no point in doing), you should fight for yourself, not have 20 of your friends help you. About this "brotherhood", I would personally rather not have my friends risking their health (or death, in this case) over some bullshit need to fight. Seriously, grow up. I don't know enough about these "crews" to make a judgement but from what you just said, you need to get a clue.

I DONT CONDONE CREWS! i dont agree with violence at all but ya know what, its going to happen. no amount of bitching and whining is going to fucking stop it. life happens, people get hurt. get over it.

i surely wouldnt WANT my friends to fight a fight for/with me. but in the heat of the moment, if one of your friends was getting messed with, im sure as hell you wouldnt just stand there and let your friend take shit like that. friends dont do that. theyre supposed to be there, by your side, with you every step of the way. true friends dont let you fight alone.

crew's arent around to start shit wherever they go. ive been to plenty of shows where they dont start shit. most of the time they keep kids from starting stuff with the wrong people. and i(along with a lot others) have never seen them start shit unless theyre provoked. violence is stupid. just stay out of whats going on and dont run your mouth and you wont get busted. if you cant take the beat get out of the pit and away from the front.

[TheOldJostler]

The day I see a machetes, hammers, guns, knives, and brass knuckles at a Dashboard Confessional show is the day I tell you aren't completely off target with this statement...

Don't ever count on that happening.


I agree with you. That is what the producers of Boston Beatdown's See the World Through Our Eyes: II have to say to those who criticize hardcore as uniquely violent, not me. Go to www.bostonbeatdown.com and read it for yourself.

And while you may not get knocked in the head with a blackjack at a DC show, you're very likely to get mistaken for a slice of pizza and devoured by any one of the countless fat teenage girls in the crowd, which is definitly violence of some kind.

[splitsecond]

i would love for 99% of you to saw shit like youre saying OFFLINE. because seriously, you will get beat up and you will deserve it. theres about 3 or 4 people who actually know what theyre talking about when it comes to hardcore.

Im not trying to say what happened was right, because its not. but if you go to hardcore shows long enough, you know who not to mess around with.

I would much rather have FSU or Courage Crew in my scene than a bunch of little ***got kids who think they can dance and know what the hell theyre talking about when they've only been in the scene for 6 months.

"these are my friends, i have their backs, they are the closest thing to blood that i have"
black my heart, bitches.

don't go running your mouth about how FSU is shit and therye all meatheads. maybe some are. but these dudes have probably been together longer than you can remember. and to me, theres nothing better than brotherhood. posi or not, its good to know that people have your back and you can count on them.

Shut the fuck up and get back in the kitchen.

[anyhizzy]

Shut the fuck up and get back in the kitchen.

i can cook pretty well actually.

[AbsentTruth]

That's nuts. People need to cool the fuck out at shows. Hardcore is about having a good time not seeing who the biggest asshole is. Stop being so fucking hostile and have a good time. Jesus.

[smokedsanity]

I DONT CONDONE CREWS! i dont agree with violence at all but ya know what, its going to happen. no amount of bitching and whining is going to fucking stop it. life happens, people get hurt. get over it.

i surely wouldnt WANT my friends to fight a fight for/with me. but in the heat of the moment, if one of your friends was getting messed with, im sure as hell you wouldnt just stand there and let your friend take shit like that. friends dont do that. theyre supposed to be there, by your side, with you every step of the way. true friends dont let you fight alone.

crew's arent around to start shit wherever they go. ive been to plenty of shows where they dont start shit. most of the time they keep kids from starting stuff with the wrong people. and i(along with a lot others) have never seen them start shit unless theyre provoked. violence is stupid. just stay out of whats going on and dont run your mouth and you wont get busted. if you cant take the beat get out of the pit and away from the front.

Well, I apologize for assuming that you condone crews. I do think that it is bullshit that your answer to the violence is "get over it". That saddens me but it certainly does not surprise me. And you are correct, I would help my friend out if he were to get into a scuffle or such thing and needed help. I do see your point. However, my friends wouldn't be jackasses and would steer clear of trouble so I don't believe that I will ever be called on to help out. My friends would be there, they are true friends for that I suppose. I do believe though, that a true friend doesn't drag his friends down with him. If you are "badass" enough to start something, then you should be "badass" enough to finish it. Also, you mentioned it, and many others have said something about someone running his/her mouth. If you feel the need to fight because of what someone says, again, you need to get a clue. Fighting should only occur when it means saving yourself from serious bodily harm. Last I checked, some random person's comments didn't really do much harm to one's body. I'm sorry, I just think that your statements conflict with one another.

[seancoia]

i hate when people think their opinion overrides others opinions and try to cram it down throats. thats what this whole forum is, and that is why i dont post. just enjoy the fucking music.

[thispostscript]

ive been at shows that fsu members were at and had no problems. ive dove off stages onto them, been in huge pile ons with them, been in the pit with them, never had a single fucking problem. theyve done more good for the people involved in hardcore out here in nj/philly area than anyone else i can think of in the past 4-5 years. you go to a show and see fsu shirts all over the place and its almost like a police presence, except when they beat the shit outta someone, they have it coming. unless you're involved and contributing to the hardcore scene, keep your fucking mouth shut
dude i mean you can list positives which are good of course...but still beating someone up for doing something wrong at a show or whatever is just childish and ridiculous, why cant you just go listen to music, dance or whatever if u want, if you dont agree with something someone does who gives a shit

[anyhizzy]

Well, I apologize for assuming that you condone crews. I do think that it is bullshit that your answer to the violence is "get over it". That saddens me but it certainly does not surprise me. And you are correct, I would help my friend out if he were to get into a scuffle or such thing and needed help. I do see your point. However, my friends wouldn't be jackasses and would steer clear of trouble so I don't believe that I will ever be called on to help out. My friends would be there, they are true friends for that I suppose. I do believe though, that a true friend doesn't drag his friends down with him. If you are "badass" enough to start something, then you should be "badass" enough to finish it. Also, you mentioned it, and many others have said something about someone running his/her mouth. If you feel the need to fight because of what someone says, again, you need to get a clue. Fighting should only occur when it means saving yourself from serious bodily harm. Last I checked, some random person's comments didn't really do much harm to one's body. I'm sorry, I just think that your statements conflict with one another.

agreed with the fighting part. but people are prideful and let their bodys do the talking. stupid, but its the way a lot of guys think. i guess ive just learned to get over it and just enjoy the shows for what theyre worth and not let the bullshit that goes on get to me. im there for a good time and good music, not to worry about whos fighting who that night.

[jeweltosparkle]

I like how they feel it's their duty to "weed out" all the people they deem as unhardcore

reminds me of that one german crew

nazixcore ;)

[pine tree]

yo i didnt real all 13 pages of this shit, but if you are shit talking FSU, then you obviously know nothing about hardcore whatsoever. they do tend to be violent dudes, but they probably prevent about 5 times as many fights as they start.

if you can't handle crews, then don't go to fucking hardcore shows. they are going to be there, and if you know how to act and respect everyone at the show then crews shouldnt be a problem for you.

[odnetnin]

This thread is full of misunderstanding.

[ForeverInADay]

Fuck, thats terrible

Every hardcore show I've been to there has never been a fight that has escalated from it. Sure, someone got punched, they got mad and pushed the kid around a little, but it was followed by an apology.
At the last hardcore show I was at, a 40 year old dude was there and he started a "fight" with this dude for no fucking reason, but before anything escalated they were pulled away from eachother.

Thats the extent of what I've seen in Toronto, and I'm glad thats as far as its gone. Everything that happens doesn't get pushed outside.

[what the f now?]

how did the guy that said where are the BFFs get overlooked, that was comedy gold.

[PoorRocker]

I cant tell you how much this incident angers me. Skrappys is and always will be one of my favorite places in the world. its like that tv show "Cheers" "everyone knows your name" and thats the truth. its a place where you go and have a great time regardless. it doesnt matter if youre punk,emo,screamo,hardcore, if your favorite bands simple plan or bad religion. you drop all assumptions at the door and youre family. the lady that runs it Kathy is one of the nicest people in the world. she gives everything for us to have a place to see a great show. and god knows we all love her for it. when i heard about what happened on the news last night the first thing that came to my mind was it couldnt have been a Skrappys regular. why? because we're family, we take care of each other thats just how we roll. and it just makes me mad to see what may happen to Skrappys because somones lack of judgement. i mean so many kids parents arent going to let their kids go to Skrappys because someone got shot their. but in contrary Skrappys isnt that type of environment. but what happened may have runined what was already in trouble. she trys so hard to make ends meet and this will not help it one bit. i just wish people would thing about their actions before carrying them out. well thats just my take on all this agree or disagree i dont care.

[tragedyinheart]

I have to agree with the folk that replied right before me. Skrappys is the most amazing thing to ever happen to the tucson music and arts community, and to hear that something like this happened is absolutely tragic. Nothing like this has ever happened before, and no way would anyone who regulars the venue would condone anything of this nature at all. I am truly sorry to everyone that was affected, and I really hope that Skrappys can stay open. Kathy has put in so much and does everything for the kids. If you were to attend 3 or 4 shows at skrappys, chances are that you would see at least 15 of the same kids at every show, and what i'm truly worried about is what are these people going to do now? What is Kathy going to do now? I just hope you all understand that this in no way reflects tucson, or the kids who live here. No one here goes to shows to cause physically harm, we all go to shows to enjoy the music, and hang out with friends. I apologize again, and hope everything works out for the best.

[xDinoCorex]

Fuck Fsu.

[PoorRocker]

I have to agree with the folk that replied right before me. Skrappys is the most amazing thing to ever happen to the tucson music and arts community, and to hear that something like this happened is absolutely tragic. Nothing like this has ever happened before, and no way would anyone who regulars the venue would condone anything of this nature at all. I am truly sorry to everyone that was affected, and I really hope that Skrappys can stay open. Kathy has put in so much and does everything for the kids. If you were to attend 3 or 4 shows at skrappys, chances are that you would see at least 15 of the same kids at every show, and what i'm truly worried about is what are these people going to do now? What is Kathy going to do now? I just hope you all understand that this in no way reflects tucson, or the kids who live here. No one here goes to shows to cause physically harm, we all go to shows to enjoy the music, and hang out with friends. I apologize again, and hope everything works out for the best.

Thank you! same here. god know what any of us will do if their isnt a Skrappys to go to.

CBGB's to NYC is Skrappys to Tucson put it that way

[TheLally]

Please remind me why it's legal in America to have handguns at all times.

it's called the second amendent, you know somethign actually worth fighting and dieing for.

[i said poop]

this situation is fucked up, thats true.

but alot of you kids are bad mouthing FSU and know little to nothing about what FSU has done for hardcore. then again alot of you have no idea what true hardcore is about. FSU in north east has helped make hardcore what it is today, and in certain venues there is no security, the FSU dudes make sure everyone is safe and in control. how many times have you ever been to a show and seen security kick someone out for just simply having fun? well with FSU in control at the shows that stupid stuff doesn't happen, they let everyone do their own thing and have fun. the FSU crew started pretty much to look out for hardcore kids back in the day when neo nazi douche bags would come out to shows (probably before any of you ever listened to something besides lully byes).

stop talking shit about FSU, sure some of the members of this crew have gotten involved in shitty situations before, but don't let a few bad apples ruin the whole bunch. FSU has done more for the hardcore music scene than any of you will ever do with your entire lives.

RIP Ray Darrin Pierson. you were a young guy and its a shame something so foolish cost you your precious life. my heart goes out to you and your family.

[Doctor Martyr]

Ok so I have been just reading most of the posts on here debating whether or not I would post or not but for some reason want to. Listen if you haven't noticed FSU or any crews to begin with in all honesty you probably haven't been to a Hardcore show. As someone said before bands NOW like Underoath, and Senses Fail do not really draw these kids out to experience most of the stuff you would see. In all honesty from the experiences that I have had with FSU they have been nothing but cool (at least to me) and have done alot for the scene. Does it mean that I think that crews benefit the scene? In some ways yes and in some ways no. Yes I do remember when Skinheads would attend shows and fuck things up for everyone and with the creation of crews like FSU did diminish the amount of Skinheads at shows. But its unfortunate that selected few in crews like FSU really put a shadow on others who do believe in the music and it's message. But to persecute all for the actions of the selected few is something you really need to think over. It's not like they are extremely organize and can limit the "acceptance" into their crew. As one guy said before there was a crew out in CA who just changed their name to FSU just for the hell of it. What I want to basically portray is that this event is extremely unfortunate for not only hardcore but everyone who considers to be apart of the community. In all honesty stuff like this should have not gone this far but it did. What our job now (those who consider themselves to be apart of the community, and trust me you know if you are or not) to make sure it really doesn’t go this far. If you are apart of a crew, leave the weapons at home, if the kid is an arrogant obvious asshole TRYING to dance, brush it off, just laugh and go on having fun. Call me posi but thats just the way I think things should run.

[i said poop]

i hope joe hardcore died and had his body violated

joe hardcore is a GREAT guy. he has done alot for the hardcore scene, but of course you have no idea about that.

one time when shattered realm was playing a show, there was a mentally retarded kid having fun and doing his own thing at the show. alot of the other kids where making fun of him and mocking him. when shattered realm came out joe invited the kid up on stage and called out all the kids that were giving him shit. he has a good heart and most everyone involved in the hardcore scene support him.

[FSUSupporterWS]

Since the times we talked chatted ill miss you
rip bro

some of you need realize that my bro wasnt bad man he was nice guy

[cavalera]

Whoever thinks there is anything good about "crews" is just dead wrong. They are gangs, nothing more, and gangs are for ghetto ******s. Have a problem with that word? Listen to Chris Rock talk about the difference between black people and ******s. The whole point of the "crew" is to stake out the hardcore show as their turf. Just like a street gang. Hardcore has ruined the metal scene by bringing that shit into just about every heavy music show of every type.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. The clubs need to ban these pieces of shit, and the bands need to tell them to fuck off. The bands are basically supporting them by not speaking up against them. The clubs are inviting trouble by letting them in. They can ban whoever they want. It's a private business. It's time for them to grow some balls and root out this crap now.

Fuck FSU.

Fuck DMS.

[Noble]

Damn there is a lot of nonsense on here. Hands down, Skrappys is a great place. I can't even count how many times my band has played there and evvery time everyone just treats you like family. Like a few people from Tucson have stated, most of the shit that goes down is between PHX kids and Tucson kids. Granted, some hardcore kids in Tucson are fucks, but in the end we're all family and in it for the same reasons. I saw this comming long ago though. How could you not? When you've got people "dancing for hits", shit is bound to hit the fan.

On the subject of the actual events: Its my understanding that the dude who shot the man from Mesa was having his windows slashed through with a machette and fired the shots in self-defense. Furthermore, I heard the fellow who fired the shots did have a license to carry a concealed weapon. My prayers go out to everyone involved in this from the shooter, to the family of the man who got murdered. In the end though, we're all victims. This shit blows

[jeweltosparkle]

Since the times we talked chatted ill miss you
rip bro

some of you need realize that my bro wasnt bad man he was nice guy


Nice enough of a guy to bring a machete to a show and chase someone into their car and proceed to attack their car?

It's tragic when anyone dies under such pointless circumstances but would you be all sympathetic if he had killed the person inside the car? Not likely

[i said poop]

Whoever thinks there is anything good about "crews" is just dead wrong. They are gangs, nothing more, and gangs are for ghetto ******s. Have a problem with that word? Listen to Chris Rock talk about the difference between black people and ******s. The whole point of the "crew" is to stake out the hardcore show as their turf. Just like a street gang. Hardcore has ruined the metal scene by bringing that shit into just about every heavy music show of every type.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. The clubs need to ban these pieces of shit, and the bands need to tell them to fuck off. The bands are basically supporting them by not speaking up against them. The clubs are inviting trouble by letting them in. They can ban whoever they want. It's a private business. It's time for them to grow some balls and root out this crap now.

Fuck FSU.

Fuck DMS.

you are a complete and utter fucking moron.

hardcore didn't stem from metal, so shut the fuck up. hardcore stemmed more from punk. metal is ruining itself as it is. you probably don't even listen to real metal, so fuck off.

i'm not even in a crew, but i recognize the contribution FSU has had to the hardcore community. you are overlooking all the good people involved and just focus on a certain few people that make the whole crew as a whole look bad. FSU has been around probably longer than you've been alive. hell, we aren't even sure if it was an FSU memeber behind the trigger that night, so how about we wait it out till we officially find out.

[xpostxdownx]

the majority of you kids dont even know anything about real hardcore, let the hardcore comunity or crews or anything else pertaining to it in general as a matter of fact.
your bad mouthing people you dont know over situations you both dont know or understand.
all you kids running your mouths online are not shit anyone can act hard online but i garantee none of you would have the balls to talk shit to any of the guys face's that your talking about. ya that was a fucked up thing that happened but it was a fucked up situation too. so maybe all you kiddies should quit poppin off at the mouth if you werent there, dont know anyone that was, dont understand anything about hardcore or dont understand the situation in general.

[sevenstars]

reason number 147 why i fucking hate the city of tucson.

hmmm your from phoenix. and most people i know from tucson hate there... ive been to plenty of shows there.. and YES, ive never seen anyone killed there.. but i sure enoguh saw someone get ther e EYE stomped out by hardcore kids in a "scene gang" there.. all of this bullshit in general in arizona needs to stop.. it wasnt there 4-5 years ago.. and its all bullshit now.. FUCKING UNBELIEVEABLE

phoenix isnt any worse then tucson, but it certainly isnt better either. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. "KIDS", BOYS, AND GIRLS SHOULD NOT HAVE TO FEAR GOING TO SHOWS. i dont care if you ;ive in tucson, have lived here since birth.. if you think this is wrong.. you deserve to be the one who died. people need to stop being so self righteous... " oh that dude hit my friend" HEY!!!! WAKE UP. your friend probably hit him first... i live in tucson and ive watched it happen more then once, twice, thrice... over ten times... and ONCE WAS TOOOOOOO! MUCH. life isnt about asserting how tough you are.. live it up and be who you want.. but not at others expense.


(hope this doesnt sound like a rant against you "rockoutaz" cause its definitely not.. this OVERALL is just disheartening)

[sevenstars]

the majority of you kids dont even know anything about real hardcore, let the hardcore comunity or crews or anything else pertaining to it in general as a matter of fact.
your bad mouthing people you dont know over situations you both dont know or understand.
all you kids running your mouths online are not shit anyone can act hard online but i garantee none of you would have the balls to talk shit to any of the guys face's that your talking about. ya that was a fucked up thing that happened but it was a fucked up situation too. so maybe all you kiddies should quit poppin off at the mouth if you werent there, dont know anyone that was, dont understand anything about hardcore or dont understand the situation in general.



THAT MEANS YOURE (YES YOU) ARE A BITCH TOO... IF YOU ARENT WILLING TO STAND UP FOR WHATS RIGHT.. HARDCORE ISNT LIFE.. ITS A SCENE... STOP TRYING TO BE COOL!

[sevenstars]

you are a complete and utter fucking moron.

hardcore didn't stem from metal, so shut the fuck up. hardcore stemmed more from punk. metal is ruining itself as it is. you probably don't even listen to real metal, so fuck off.

i'm not even in a crew, but i recognize the contribution FSU has had to the hardcore community. you are overlooking all the good people involved and just focus on a certain few people that make the whole crew as a whole look bad. FSU has been around probably longer than you've been alive. hell, we aren't even sure if it was an FSU memeber behind the trigger that night, so how about we wait it out till we officially find out.

YOURE RIGHT IT WASNT AN FSU MEMBER BEHIND THE TRIGGER... IT WAS AN FSU MEMBER THAT DIED MORON... read the report... he broke the window of the guys car with a machete.. and that person in the car proceeded to shoot him. [NO HARDCORE SHOW, let alone ANY show... should end up or amount to a sum of someone dying]


hardcore stemmed from punk and metal.... originally dfrom punk.. but no one can deny the if not anything more then "recent" influence upon hardcore in general... and just like you said metal is ruining itself... WHAT THE FUCKL DO YOU THINK HARDCORE IS DOING?.... more and more clubs around the country and the world.. are banning shows.. because things are too violent, "kids" dont know how to control themselves, their tempers, and their actions..


if you dont know what youre talking about step the fuck off.. because you obviously havent witnessed a damn thing in the time you've been "into hardcore"

[sevenstars]

Damn there is a lot of nonsense on here. Hands down, Skrappys is a great place. I can't even count how many times my band has played there and evvery time everyone just treats you like family. Like a few people from Tucson have stated, most of the shit that goes down is between PHX kids and Tucson kids. Granted, some hardcore kids in Tucson are fucks, but in the end we're all family and in it for the same reasons. I saw this comming long ago though. How could you not? When you've got people "dancing for hits", shit is bound to hit the fan.

On the subject of the actual events: Its my understanding that the dude who shot the man from Mesa was having his windows slashed through with a machette and fired the shots in self-defense. Furthermore, I heard the fellow who fired the shots did have a license to carry a concealed weapon. My prayers go out to everyone involved in this from the shooter, to the family of the man who got murdered. In the end though, we're all victims. This shit blows

I COULDNT AGREE MORE... EVERYONE IN TUCSON (and everywhere else) IS A VICTIM. and its the worst thing imaginable... i didnt think skrappys would ever get this bad... SADLY i was wrong. but you're right... i wasnt at all suprised (very sadly) when i heard it happened.. or that i knew it would all end this way eventually...

[sevenstars]

from 6 years of going to hardcore shows in philly and jersey ive seen the fsu crew in action a lot. every experience ive had with them is like the name says, friends stand united. they look out for each other and the other kids that are involved in the scene. everything from benefits for friends who are in need, to just weeding out the kids that are at the shows to start shit. the way these az kids described it, the fsu crew jumped people without being provoked, and that just doesnt sound like them. they had to do something to start this shit. at this point i say fuck tuscon, anyone in a band from the northeast, stop touring to az, it sucks and its hot there anyway, those kids dont deserve it. i hope to god its not joe that was shot, he's an awesome dude and he has a fucking family back here in philly. i dont know of too many other people recently that have contributed more to the scene here. shooting anyone is the most pussy move you can make in a fight

"the way these az kids described it, the fsu crew jumped people without being provoked, and that just doesnt sound like them. they had to do something to start this shit. at this point i say fuck tuscon, anyone in a band from the northeast, stop touring to az, it sucks and its hot there anyway" because obviously anyone who lives in tucson who saw it "doesnt know what they are talkign about" ?? because of the heat right? yeah its been under 60 degrees at night for over a month.. eat shit dude... stop beliving the dreams that live in your head...

p.s. joe has ripped of many dudes... and not even people i liked.. SAD BUT TRUE.


like comeback kid said "FALSE IDOLS FALL" live your own life.. stop believing the lies. hardcore is good music... sadly its scene is filled with nothing but drama and violence.. and if you believe something less then that.. go to russia and be a communist.. because UTOPIA doesnt exist.

p.s.s i feel bad if you really think fsu is as good as you state.. im sure they did start out with well intentions, just like most groups... but ive never known them as anything less then "FUCK SHIT UP" not in AZ, not in CALI, not in VEGAS. the west coast isnt evil on its own... its a group picture.. and ive heard more then enough about the east coast... (and im from there.)

[sevenstars]

why the fuck would you have a gun in your car when you go to a show in the first place? i always have an extendable police baton under my seat and a bat in my trunk, but guns have no place at a hardcore show. ive been into shows for 8 years straight hardcore... converge in 97... (sorry im not from boston) siins and sharps at house parties playing in back yards.. and you know what.. through all my highschool years and all the bullshit i never heard of someone dying, being shot, etc... if you wouldnt have agun.. (which i dont, either.) why bother having a night stick [extendable or not] or a baseball bat... are you scared of hitting someone who could beat you up?

like comeback kid says "i dont need a crew to VALIDATE MYSELF, YOU'RE ALL THE SAME"

i lived hardcore for 6 years.. and watched all the FAMILY and comrodery bullshit fade away... the kids everyone loves to think are true.. warps everyones view..

i made fun of older kids who left this scene... BECAUSE OF VIOLENCE! and now its even worse.

[sevenstars]

Please remind me why it's legal in America to have handguns at all times.

i dont agree handguns should ever be legal.. im FIRMLY against it... but tell me when machetes and knives should be legal and ill give you an answer to your question. because neither should be legal.. minus the normal butter knives and steak knives... but you know what.. that doesnt change much... and sadlt america is one of the most violent countries in the world... SO REDICULOUS.

[sevenstars]

It was not self defense. This guy has been bringing a gun to shows recently, mostly to show off. It was only a matter of time when he was going to shoot someone, he hates FSU. He also got away with it.

i wonder who he was.. since you "KNOW HIM" apparently... you say he brings guns around.. and got away with it..

[sevenstars]

First off, and this goes for the next guy I am quoting, Tucson kids rarely start shit. I lived there for 4 years, and my best friend has been going to Skrappys since the place originally opened. The Tucson scene is very elitist and thinks highly of themselves, but they tend to look out for people in the pit. Every single time there ae problems there that I have seen, it has been because of some phoenix tough guys coming down ad starting shit with someone they dont know. Dont get me wrong, the Tucson kids run their mouth like no other, and will all back someone up if attacked, but they generally just try and scare them off, because they have intense respet for the lady ho runs Skrappys (who makes very little money, and doesnt "own" it - it is a nonprofit venue that she runs just to give kids a place to go and a place for music). I wouldnt be surprised if this had nothing to do with anyone from Tucson.



Read what I just said. You really are going to stand up for this meathead bullshit? Pulling a gun in a fight is a pussy move (which it is) then what do you call chasing someone to their car with a machete? Thats really fucking brave isnt it?


Its funny, the first thing I thought when I head about this was "Go figure, its a bunch of Eulogy bands...."


i cant identify with the eulogy remark... all labels are responsible if hardcore is. plain and simple...


but i COULDNT AGREE WITH YOU MORE ABOUT TUCSON... i wasnt born here, havent lived here all my life.. but i damn well know for a fact... that kids here dont start fights unless provoked... they back up kids and leave it at that..


and IF GUNS ARE PUSSY WHTS WITH CHASING SOMEONE WITH A MACHETE..? couldnt agree more on that either..

[tragedyinheart]

How about you all stop arguing about who's hardcore, and who's not, and focus on the real reason this forum exists. To discuss what happened, not argue. You're all contributing to this violence, even if it is e-violence.

[sevenstars]

Ive been friends with a few members for many years, and I have seen them do many positive things for the hardcore scene. Run benefit shows for under privledged children,benifits to raise money for various causes. They helped weed out skinheads in the scene, not as many now, but a few years back it was a problem. Like any group of people there are some who take it to far and extreme, but you can say that with any grouping of people. To say ALL fsu members are out to hurt kids and ruin hadcore because of one individual or a few seperate occasions is wrong.


and to say anything less is that your opinion is biased.. if you went into a court and you said the same thing, they would see you are friends with so and so of "fsu" or any other said group and you have about a 75% chance or better of them not caring because of this fact... you probably let their misdealings slide more because of your friendships with their accomplices and group members... every one knows not everyone is bad... but if those people you are associating with are doing deeds of this nature.. and you still associate with them... YOU AREN'T ANY BETTER THEN THEM.


people dont walk around saying.. im friends with mass murderers... so if they killed or tried to kill 3-4 more people.. would you still say FSU is a wonderful orginization... its not that your friend is horrible.. bad.. wrong.. in ANY WAY. but im sure he could find better outlets.. for these benefit shows, and causes, etc..

[sevenstars]

Alright, im a little late posting this. So after reading all this shit.....

First, I HONESTLY dont think this has anything to do with FSU. here is why. I grew up at skrappy's. I was there when it was opened in 96 and I continued going there til I moved to PA this last year. Phoenix hardcore kids and Tucson kids have never EVER gotten along. It originally started when Phoenix hardcore bands would come and play and as a band would kick the shit out of the kids in the pit. So the kids in Tucson started dancing harder and eventually got better at it and then the Phoenix kids started getting annoyed cause they couldnt bully these kids out of the pit. So then they began starting fights. Then about 4-5 years ago small weapons like brass knuckles were being brought to shows so when the fights went outside...shit went down. Well knuckles led to pipes which led to knives and i guess we have ended up with the thing we have been fearing all along...guns. Everyone who has been an active part at Skrappy's knew this day was going to come and that is why Kathy(the Owner/Manager) of Skrappy's didn't want to do hardcore shows anymore(that and the insurance is insane for hardcore shows). But the kids in Tucson still wanted them so she said, if you want them book them. So they did....

Tucson has an amazing underground scene. Actually a lot better than phoenix. Why do you think phoenix kids come to all the shows and start shit? BECAUSE THESE SHOWS DONT GO TO PHOENIX. If they did, would you drive 2 hours to see them again? Well maybe if you loved them that much...but in this scenario they would just go to phoenix.

FSU has most likely done many great things. The benefits, fundraisers and community service are all great achievements for any group. But my question, is it really helping the community if you are only helping one group? Look at a group out of LA called the Bloods. Coming from low economic neighborhoods this group puts money in their friends and families pockets that allows them to have shelter, food, and transportation. Keeps out the people that might cause them harm(other groups, much like skinheads) and has created a semi-safe and stable environment for their loved ones. BUT AT WHAT COST? Shouldn't good things help the global community, not just the community in which you associate yourself with? Just a thought.

Finally. The scene will never change, it will only die out in places that can't keep up with the alpha groups. Most likely Tucson will have rare to no more hardcore shows because of this event. Insurance rates will sky rocket, parents won't let the kids(also for you old elitists, the NEXT GENERATION TO CARRY ON YOUR MUSIC) go to shows anymore, and finally these elite bands wont tour in the city and will fail to expand on their fan base and eventually they too will die out and have to go find jobs pumping gas, working for the post office, being a cook at a local Applebee's. Whatever will hire someone to pay the bills. Welcome to how life works. Hardcore is the new Disco.

Also just a quick note. All the people saying they go to hardcore shows all the time and dont see this shit, means you arent really going to hardcore shows. Underoath, From Autumn to Ashes, Senses Fail and all those other bands that scream (which i do listen to also) are not hardcore. when you get to a true hardcore show you will know.


couldnt agree more.. i started at skrappys in 9 with bands like gatrot.. local metal/hardcore whatever you want to call it.. when bands like turmoil still roamed the earth... along with overcome, 10 yrd fight and more.. i remember when dancing at skrappys... was exactly that.. dancing.. i saw spin kicks and fists in the air.. but they were in the air.. not at someones head.

[sevenstars]

Dimebag Darrell got shot in Columbus, no?

indeed he did.. and not to discredit you.. but dimabag isnt exactly hardcore nor underground.. rock god yes... no arguments.. anyhow.. im off

[sevenstars]

i would love for 99% of you to saw shit like youre saying OFFLINE. because seriously, you will get beat up and you will deserve it. theres about 3 or 4 people who actually know what theyre talking about when it comes to hardcore.

Im not trying to say what happened was right, because its not. but if you go to hardcore shows long enough, you know who not to mess around with.

I would much rather have FSU or Courage Crew in my scene than a bunch of little ***got kids who think they can dance and know what the hell theyre talking about when they've only been in the scene for 6 months.

"these are my friends, i have their backs, they are the closest thing to blood that i have"
black my heart, bitches.

don't go running your mouth about how FSU is shit and therye all meatheads. maybe some are. but these dudes have probably been together longer than you can remember. and to me, theres nothing better than brotherhood. posi or not, its good to know that people have your back and you can count on them.


so does that mean the KKK is awesome too? they definitely arent posi... but they are "brotherhood" for sure... how about the aryan reight? (sp?) just because they have solidarity and are dependable for each other.. DOESNT make them credible or positive at all.... no one that is older appreciates the younger crowd that thinks they know it all.. thinks they know the best bands, how to dance harder/better... has been here longer... GET OVER IT. MUSIC IS NOT A POPULARITY CONTEST.

[MarkDriver]

The real tragedy in all this is that now the Propagandhi show tonight might be canceled all because of a bunch of macho meathead hardcore bullshit. Yeah that's right, I'm not "hardcore" I don't appreciate how tough you are. Don't tell me that the guys who join this shit are all about having bake sales for needy children or some shit like that. We all know that the world would be better off without them. If you are willing to reach out and physically harm someone that does not want to be harmed, you deserve no respect and no sympathy. You are little more than a rabid animal and you should be destroyed.

[PoorRocker]

This was posted last night on Myspace from the Skrappys Myspace... all i can say is im relieved..

Dec 8, 2005 8:56 PM

Attention: Everyone

Skrappy's is going to be okay. We are not being shut down. We are not being cited. The Mayor backed Skrappy's up and so did City Council. What happened last night was a huge incident that will most likely not happen again and was a huge misunderstanding which involved an underground hardcore national crew and innocent Tucson kids. We only request that you do not involve it with Skrappy's anymore. (that includes no discussing it on the Skrappy's sites)

Propaghandi has decided to cancel their performance for December 9th due to the events of December 7th and they believe it is the right thing to do. If you have already purchased a ticket, they can be used at their performance in Phoenix on Saturday.

December 16th is the next show. Other shows at Skrappy's until then have been cancelled. Job For A Cowboy has been cancelled. We apologize for this problem.

There will be a staff meeting sometime next week. As well as more information later on within the week or by this weekend.

Stay tuned~

[jeweltosparkle]

Charity and benefits alone don't make up for the negative acts of an organization. As mentioned more than once in the above posts. Organizations like the KKK regulary do charity work and stuff ot better the community. So I guess as long as I'm friends with them and the adopt a highway every year I can overlook the little things like racism and hate crimes.

[what the f now?]

NO SERIOUSLY, WHERE ARE THE BFFs?

[DroppedUrPocket]

Jets!

[cavalera]

you are a complete and utter fucking moron.

hardcore didn't stem from metal, so shut the fuck up. hardcore stemmed more from punk. metal is ruining itself as it is. you probably don't even listen to real metal, so fuck off.

i'm not even in a crew, but i recognize the contribution FSU has had to the hardcore community. you are overlooking all the good people involved and just focus on a certain few people that make the whole crew as a whole look bad. FSU has been around probably longer than you've been alive. hell, we aren't even sure if it was an FSU memeber behind the trigger that night, so how about we wait it out till we officially find out.

Who the fuck cares whether hardcore's more metal or more punk? That wasn't the point of anything I said. But since you brought it up, hardcore has way more in common with metal than punk. Punk never slowed down for breakdowns. Today's hardcore has guitarists who really know how to play, unlike punk guitarists. Double bass drumming? Metal. Agnostic Front toured with Morbid Angel. Hatebreed tours with Slayer. Half of the Ozzfest is hardcore bands. The Cro-Mags toured with Megadeth. Whatever, I've been going to metal, punk, and hardcore shows since you were a fetus, I'm sure.

The point of my post was actually that FSU is nothing but a street gang. Worthless pieces of shit. If they were decent guys, they would just enjoy the music and not try to show anyone up, or beat anyone up, or bring weapons to shows for that matter. They do nothing for society that makes them worth existing. Fucking Al Qaeda helps poor muslims in need. Does that make them good guys? The KKK does charity work too. So fucking what. Mankind would be better off without them, just like we would be better off without FSU or all the other dipshit "crews".

So the FSU shitbag wasn't behind the trigger. He was the one causing the trouble, threatening someone's life. He asked for it. That bullet was well-deserved. Fuck him. Fuck FSU. You and they are the complete and utter fucking morons.

[Seanisweak]

That stupid bitch Seven Stars is sitting here bitching about this and that like he knows what he's talking about. His name is Sean McCusker and he's unable to go to shows in Tucson because he raped a scene girl. He can go if he so desires, but he'll get a brutal stomping. He's bitching about violence because he's scared to leave his home. Don't respect that asshole because he's a rapist.

http://www.myspace.com/rational_behavior

That is literally his my space in case you want a visual of who to not respect.

[odnetnin]

Well, this thread solved nothing. Good job, everyone.

[agnostichomie]

Is FSU straight edge?

[odnetnin]

Is FSU straight edge?
FSU does not represent or endorse straight edge. I would imagine some members are.

[agnostichomie]

Just curious cause the whole crew thing really reminds me of the "24's". a straightedge group in phoenix. For the most part, if you don't mess with them they leave you alone. But I have seen kids that don't go to shows often get brutaly beat just cause they kicked the wrong person in the pit. I've also seen some of the "24's" trying to start fights by throwing kicks and punches at ASU Frat boys who think they are tough, but lets face it, a lot od those frat boys need an ass kicking. I also saw one of them knock a guy in the face cause he smoking a cigarette(there could have been an argument earlier or something, but it looked like smoking was the ONLY reason he got hit). Granted the show was all straightedge bands, but idk...i guess its just a group mentality thing. And as one kid said earlier, if you go to shows you know who not to mess with and you just have to let some shit stay in the pit. Live by that and you won't end up getting shot.

[odnetnin]

x24x is much different.

[xpostxdownx]

Just curious cause the whole crew thing really reminds me of the "24's". a straightedge group in phoenix. For the most part, if you don't mess with them they leave you alone. But I have seen kids that don't go to shows often get brutaly beat just cause they kicked the wrong person in the pit. I've also seen some of the "24's" trying to start fights by throwing kicks and punches at ASU Frat boys who think they are tough, but lets face it, a lot od those frat boys need an ass kicking. I also saw one of them knock a guy in the face cause he smoking a cigarette(there could have been an argument earlier or something, but it looked like smoking was the ONLY reason he got hit). Granted the show was all straightedge bands, but idk...i guess its just a group mentality thing. And as one kid said earlier, if you go to shows you know who not to mess with and you just have to let some shit stay in the pit. Live by that and you won't end up getting shot.
who ever got beat up when they were smokeing probobly was running his mouth i know alot of the 24 guys and there good guys they dont just go around starting shit for no reason to catch an ass whooping from any of them means you must have done something wrong to begin with

[MrukMosh]

Not that anyone will read this cause it is an old thread.
Let me first state that I don't agree with what happened at that show, I don't know what the exact circumstances behind it so I won't get into th particulars about it.

Basicly this is what I have to say, although I don't even completely understand it FSU guys out of boston don't live normal lives like everyone else, these guys live hardcore. They go to shows and if your not one of there friends your there enemy, straight up. There was a kid a few post ago that said something like, you guys wouldn't have the balls to say 1/2 the shit you do on a forum, and it's fucking true. You would be stabbed and fucking gutted if you said some of the shit that you say to anyone in FSU. Simply put if you don't wanna have to deal with shit like that, don't go to a show that you know is gonna have bands that run with crews. You kids who live in like AZ and shit, come to MA this is where hardcore is at, deal with all the different crews and fights. This place Skrappys, should of realized when the put, Shattered Realm and Donnybrook! on there card that these are big bands that run with crews. Just don't be an idiot if you go to shows, have fun but don't be stupid. If you know kids are there that like fights don't fuck with them and push there buttons. I'll admit, I would get beat the fuck up if I wen't to a boston hardcore show. If your into the hardcore scene, then resepect FSU because they are this scene. Sure you can go to you little local band shows and have no trouble, but when you go to a bigger bands like, Death Before Dishonor, Shattered Realm, Black My Heart, etc etc.. expect kids who live this shit to be there. Hardcore is a trend to alot of people and that makes them think they can run there mouth and act tuff, but to FSU it's there life.