So ESPN is telling fans to vote for THEIR Team USA

[CallMeChief]

Tell me...despite all that is going on this season, how is Elton Brand STILL fourth in the power forward voting? Now, many of my friends argue that "just because he's having a good season now doesnt mean he earned a spot in team USA" but he's ALWAYS been close to as good as he is now. Is he EVER gunna get respect from the masses?

[CallMeChief]

Actually, let's add to the post, put your ideal Team USA line up, if you want.

[Goodbye Forever]

Starters:

C Duncan
PF Garnett
SF James
SG Wade
PG Billups

Bench:

PF Brand
PF Marion
PF Howard
C J. O'Neal
SG Allen
SG Redd
PG Arenas

I left Iverson and Bryant off because I don't think they would work well with a loaded team like this. Arenas has potential to end up like they would, but I figured what the hell.

[wesgemm08]

Lineup
C Shaq
Pf- Garnett
SF- Lebron
SG- Rip Hamilton
PG- J Kidd

Bench

Tim Duncan
T-Mac
Paul Pierce
Ron Artest
Iverson
Wade
Michael Redd

[selftitled85]

Starters:

C Duncan
PF Garnett
SF James
SG Wade
PG Billups

Bench:

PF Brand
PF Marion
PF Howard
C J. O'Neal
SG Allen
SG Redd
PG Arenas

I left Iverson and Bryant off because I don't think they would work well with a loaded team like this. Arenas has potential to end up like they would, but I figured what the hell.

iverson proved in the last olympics that he would be willing to put aside his own ego to play for team america...i think he should be there.

[getupkid53]

As long as Brand is a clipper, he will get second billing. People see him as a star on a no one team, a team that no one cares about. Maybe after this season, people will pay attention.

Team USA:

PG - Nash w/ Iverson as Backup
SG - Wade w/ Hamilton as backup (the guy shoots 51% from the field)
SF - James w/ Anthony as a backup
PF - Garnett w/ Brand and Stoudamire (also as SF) backup
C - Duncan w/ Wallace and S. O'neal as backup

[mat1419]

iverson proved in the last olympics that he would be willing to put aside his own ego to play for team america...i think he should be there.
I think Iverson needs to be there, but at the same time, we need to worry less about the big names that have one style of play and get the shooters and defenders out there. The world can shut down our power forwards now...we can't keep losing from the outside. Last olympics made US basketball look just awful

[wesgemm08]

As long as Brand is a clipper, he will get second billing. People see him as a star on a no one team, a team that no one cares about. Maybe after this season, people will pay attention.

Team USA:

PG - Nash w/ Iverson as Backup
SG - Wade w/ Hamilton as backup (the guy shoots 51% from the field)
SF - James w/ Anthony as a backup
PF - Garnett w/ Brand and Stoudamire (also as SF) backup
C - Duncan w/ Wallace and S. O'neal as backup

nash is canadian...

[Goodbye Forever]

iverson proved in the last olympics that he would be willing to put aside his own ego to play for team america...i think he should be there.

I had him on originally, and then took him off. I like how that starting line-up looks, and I think they could mesh well, and I didn't know if he'd react well to coming off the bench. He could either provide a huge spark or cause problems. Like I said though, the same could be said for Arenas, so you could switch the two.

On another note, I left Amare off because who knows what kind of player he'll be when he gets back. He had the same type of surgery that stalled Penny's career, so it's a definite possibility that he won't be the same.

[YouMadeTheScene]

Center- Duncan
PF-Garnett
SF-Tashyaun Prince or Lebron
SG-Rip Hamilton
PG-Chauncey Billups

Bench
Prince or Lebron
Kirk Hinrich
Michael Redd
Brad Miller
Rasheed Wallace
Shawn Marion
Dwayne Wade
Shaq

[weezer182]

nash is canadian...hahaha yea that was pretty obvious

[YouMadeTheScene]

People need to not look at big names and start focusing on combating the Internation style of play. That is exactly why guys like Brad Miller, Prince, Hinrich, and even Bruce Bowen get passed over. You need an international type point guard like a Hinrich there. You need at least 2 shut down defenders like Bowen and Prince. You need a big man who can move around and pass liek Miller. You also need to focus on shooting not going to the hoop everytime. Rip Hamilton needs to be there so does Billups and Redd. You need guys who can pull up and shoot.

[somethingyellow]

pg- baron davis
sg- bruce bowen
sf- lebron james
pf- kevin garnett
c- ben wallace

i am sure everybody is going to rip this starting line up apart especially with bowen. Here is my argument, it is known that the US has the most talent by far. With this line up they should beat any team. I put together a team that would play really good defense and a team that I don't think is very selfish and had the ability to play team basketball. You don't need a team that is full of superstars to be successful. Sometimes you need good role players who can play come in and don't need to take 20 shots a game and can play great defense

[YouMadeTheScene]

If anyone has ESPN Insider go here

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/040804

its bill simmons article on this from a while back. It really is the best idea for a dream team i've seen. We need role players, shooters, and defenders in there. Not big time names who can't shoot and just are basically slashers.

[weezer182]

i much as i dislike the pistons i guarantee if the piston team was our national team, minus arroyo and darko, they would easily win. 13-2 right now, they play well together and play good defense. this would never happen though

[Talib Scottie]

PG - Chauncy Billups - Plays tough D and can hit outside shots
SG - Lebron James - Can get to the basket, is unselfish, Solid defender
SF - Bruce Bowen - Defense, Defense, Defense
PF - Elton Brand - Shotblocker in the post, good weakside help defender and scorer
C - Tim Duncan - You know why

[Talib Scottie]

We need Kevin Garnett, Ben Wallace, Michael Redd, Tayshaun Prince, and Ray Allen on the bench with maybe a scoring point guard like Arenas or Iverson.

[fluke182]

People need to not look at big names and start focusing on combating the Internation style of play. That is exactly why guys like Brad Miller, Prince, Hinrich, and even Bruce Bowen get passed over. You need an international type point guard like a Hinrich there. You need at least 2 shut down defenders like Bowen and Prince. You need a big man who can move around and pass liek Miller. You also need to focus on shooting not going to the hoop everytime. Rip Hamilton needs to be there so does Billups and Redd. You need guys who can pull up and shoot.
Here here. This is the reason our teams have been poor lately.

[getupkid53]

Apologies about the Nash. I hope we whoop his ass then, frickin hoser.

[Talib Scottie]

I read all the arguements and my team now goes as follows:
PG - Billups, Hinrich
SG - James, Rip, Redd
SF - Bowen, Prince
PF - Brand, Garnett, Martin
C - Duncan, Miller

The arguments about Miller, Hinrich, and Rip were pretty good, I added K Mart because they need a high energy guy off of the bench to do the dirty work.

[fluke182]

Starting PG needs to be a distributor, a non-shoot first guard. The rest of the team is for that. It has to be someone that create their own shot. That's why it's...Chauncey Billups!
For SG, you need a great shooter, someone who can fill it up from any distance, but can also handle and pass very well. That's why it's...Ray Allen!
For SF, you need someone that's long and create matchup problems all over the court, someone who's game is versatility that can defend and can hit open 3 pointers given the opportunity. That's why it's Ron Artest!
For PF, it's Tim Duncan. Why even pretend it wouldn't be?
At C, I'd say it wouldn't be Shaq. He's dominant, but I think he'd foul out ridiculously fast in international play. Assuming he's healthy, I would go with Marcus Camby because he's a ridiculous defender, help or straight up, and he can fill it up and get boards over anyone.

Bench, you're going to need a replacement Artest, so Tayshaun Prince. Michael Redd will be the replacement Ray Allen. Elton Brand will be the replacement TD. Shaq can come off the bench to dominate the game for 15 minutes a game. Point guard you'll have to go with another creator who is pass first, but CAN shoot, so I'll take Kirk Hinrich. You need two people off the bench who are freaks of nature and are pure energy, people you can put in the game that can just change the shape of the game by being put into the game. Someone from the front court and the back court. Allen Iverson and Amare Stoudamire should do it. Two interchangeable lineups and people you can put in to instantly start a rally no matter who what the situation is. I like it! I like it! That team would not lose!

Starters: Billups, Allen, Artest, Duncan and Camby.
Bench: Hinrich, Redd, Prince, Brand, Shaq, Iverson and Stoudamire.

What hot balance is that? It may be limited in size, but the international game is NOT about size.

[Caleb Cattivera]

C-Shaq
PF-Duncan
SF-Lebron James
SG-T Mac
PG-Allen Iverson

Bench:

C-Ben Wallace
F-Elton Brand
F-Kevin Garnett
F-Shawn Marion
G-Kobe Bryant
G-Dwyane Wade
G-Gilbert Arenas

No team will ever be as good as the 92 team. It doesnt matter who we have on our team now...they can't hold a candle to 92.

[YouMadeTheScene]

I read all the arguements and my team now goes as follows:
PG - Billups, Hinrich
SG - James, Rip, Redd
SF - Bowen, Prince
PF - Brand, Garnett, Martin
C - Duncan, Miller

The arguments about Miller, Hinrich, and Rip were pretty good, I added K Mart because they need a high energy guy off of the bench to do the dirty work.

Perfect team instead maybe minus Martin and Add Artest. He is crazy but he is the hardest working guy in the entire league

[YouMadeTheScene]

C-Shaq
PF-Duncan
SF-Lebron James
SG-T Mac
PG-Allen Iverson

Bench:

C-Ben Wallace
F-Elton Brand
F-Kevin Garnett
F-Shawn Marion
G-Kobe Bryant
G-Dwyane Wade
G-Gilbert Arenas

No team will ever be as good as the 92 team. It doesnt matter who we have on our team now...they can't hold a candle to 92.

See I think a team like that won't be a great team. I mean For the most part its loaded with big guys and no great shooters. Allen Iverson is a good PG one of the best but in an International type game I don't think he fits that well. Not to mention you don't have a guard or SF who plays shut down defense.

[Caleb Cattivera]

Starters: Billups, Allen, Artest, Duncan and Camby.
Bench: Hinrich, Redd, Prince, Brand, Shaq, Iverson and Stoudamire.

What hot balance is that? It may be limited in size, but the international game is NOT about size.

Umm...no. that team would get their asses handed to them.

lets look at 2004's roster.

Anthony, Boozer, Iverson, James, Duncan, Jefferson, Marbury, Marion, Odom, Okafor, Stoudemire, and Wade.

That team got third. With Iverson, Duncan, Lebron, Amare, Wade, and the rest of those guys. And you want to pick Kirk Hinrich, who at best is a medicore player in the nba? Prince? Billups starting? I agree with some of your choices, Brand, Shaq, Iverson, Duncan are all good choices, even ray allen. But marcus Camby, no...he's having a good season this year, but he's outdoing himself from years past. one great season out of 9 good seasons...doesnt grant him a starting spot. after 2004 when we embarassed ourselves, we need to put the best possible team together...and kirk hinrich, tashuayn prince, michael redd...that's not our best basketball players.

the international game is not abotu size your right...but it's also not about sucking either.

[Caleb Cattivera]

Perfect team instead maybe minus Martin and Add Artest. He is crazy but he is the hardest working guy in the entire league

that team is horrible. bowen?! haha wow.

[Drew Beringer]

Here is my top 5 USA team:
C: Shaq (Give me one international player that could stop him. That's right, none can. This is a no-brainer)
PF: Duncan (ultimate team player, unselfish, fundamentally sound, great leader, championship experience)
SF: Artest (Don't give me shit about his behavior, this year no technical fouls, no disturbances in the media or anything. Instead, he is averaging over 20 points and is the best defensive player in the league. Can shut down any international scorer. You gotta have a guy on your team who can score 20 for your team and only give 10 or so points for the other team)
SG: Lebron (move him to SG, create matchup problems for defender. Triple-double threat every game)
PG: Iverson (showed great leadership in the last Olympics, he won't shoot a lot on this team because he has Shaq and Duncan, well at least he will take better shots)

And make sure the coach isn't Larry Brown, he is horrible. Maybe Rick Carlisle (good team management) or Popovich.

[Caleb Cattivera]

See I think a team like that won't be a great team. I mean For the most part its loaded with big guys and no great shooters. Allen Iverson is a good PG one of the best but in an International type game I don't think he fits that well. Not to mention you don't have a guard or SF who plays shut down defense.

shut down defense? considering iverson and lebron lead the leauge in steals last year? gilbert arenas was in the top five in steals. they're all good defenders. great shooters?

career numbers-

lebron- 45%
duncan- 51%
shaq- 58%
t mac- 45%
iverson- 42%
wallace- 48%
brand- 50%
garnett- 49%
marion- 47%
kobe- 45%
wade- 48%
arenas- 43%

minus iverson and arenas that team has pretty good shooting. ask anyone who they'd rather have starting on their olympic team between lebron james and bruce bowen...99.9% would choose lebron. hell i think bowen would choose lebron.

i dont want to say my teams the 'best' team that anyones put, because it's probably not...but in my mind this is what the usa team will probably end up looking like.

[Drew Beringer]

shut down defense? considering iverson and lebron lead the leauge in steals last year? gilbert arenas was in the top five in steals. they're all good defenders. great shooters?

career numbers-

lebron- 45%
duncan- 51%
shaq- 58%
t mac- 45%
iverson- 42%
wallace- 48%
brand- 50%
garnett- 49%
marion- 47%
kobe- 45%
wade- 48%
arenas- 43%

minus iverson and arenas that team has pretty good shooting. ask anyone who they'd rather have starting on their olympic team between lebron james and bruce bowen...99.9% would choose lebron. hell i think bowen would choose lebron.

i dont want to say my teams the 'best' team that anyones put, because it's probably not...but in my mind this is what the usa team will probably end up looking like.

We all know that my team is the best. ;)

[Caleb Cattivera]

Here is my top 5 USA team:
C: Shaq (Give me one international player that could stop him. That's right, none can. This is a no-brainer)
PF: Duncan (ultimate team player, unselfish, fundamentally sound, great leader, championship experience)
SF: Artest (Don't give me shit about his behavior, this year no technical fouls, no disturbances in the media or anything. Instead, he is averaging over 20 points and is the best defensive player in the league. Can shut down any international scorer. You gotta have a guy on your team who can score 20 for your team and only give 10 or so points for the other team)
SG: Lebron (move him to SG, create matchup problems for defender. Triple-double threat every game)
PG: Iverson (showed great leadership in the last Olympics, he won't shoot a lot on this team because he has Shaq and Duncan, well at least he will take better shots)

And make sure the coach isn't Larry Brown, he is horrible. Maybe Rick Carlisle (good team management) or Popovich.

nice lineup...i almost picked artest...he'd be a good fit too. and yeah he gets too much shit about his behavior.

[YouMadeTheScene]

that team is horrible. bowen?! haha wow.


Did you watch the 2004 Olympic games? People were clogging the lane double teaming the big guys and no one could shoot outside. Countries were ripping us apart with their shooting. Many of the big time players in the NBA aren't international type players. Don't you see a trend where the new thing is the international PG? That's why guys like Bowen, Prince, Hinrich, Redd, Hamilton, B. Miller, and Billups would be crucial.

shut down defense? considering iverson and lebron lead the league in steals last year? gilbert arenas was in the top five in steals. they're all good defenders. great shooters?

career numbers-

lebron- 45%
duncan- 51%
shaq- 58%
t mac- 45%
iverson- 42%
wallace- 48%
brand- 50%
garnett- 49%
marion- 47%
kobe- 45%
wade- 48%
arenas- 43%

minus iverson and arenas that team has pretty good shooting. ask anyone who they'd rather have starting on their olympic team between lebron james and bruce bowen...99.9% would choose lebron. hell i think bowen would choose lebron.

i dont want to say my teams the 'best' team that anyones put, because it's probably not...but in my mind this is what the usa team will probably end up looking like.

admittly yes Iverson and James lead the league in steals but would you say they are better defenders then Bowen and Prince? Defense isn't so much in the number as it is in the way a person plays and the person they are guardings performance. If one of those guys was guarding someone and stole the ball lets say 4 times resulting in maybe 10 points but they allow the person they're defending to score 22 points 5 rebounds and 2 assists did they have a good or bad night defending?

as for the shooting you can't say those guys are great shooters becuase most of the points they score are off of inside scoring. Again you can't compare them in terms of pulling up and shooting like international players and with guys like Redd, Hamitlon, and Allen

[Caleb Cattivera]

Did you watch the 2004 Olympic games? People were clogging the lane double teaming the big guys and no one could shoot outside. Countries were ripping us apart with their shooting. Many of the big time players in the NBA aren't international type players. Don't you see a trend where the new thing is the international PG? That's why guys like Bowen, Prince, Hinrich, Redd, Hamilton, B. Miller, and Billups would be crucial.



admittly yes Iverson and James lead the league in steals but would you say they are better defenders then Bowen and Prince? Defense isn't so much in the number as it is in the way a person plays and the person they are guardings performance. If one of those guys was guarding someone and stole the ball lets say 4 times resulting in maybe 10 points but they allow the person they're defending to score 22 points 5 rebounds and 2 assists did they have a good or bad night defending?

as for the shooting you can't say those guys are great shooters becuase most of the points they score are off of inside scoring. Again you can't compare them in terms of pulling up and shooting like international players and with guys like Redd, Hamitlon, and Allen

hinrich isnt worthy of an olympic team...bowen isnt worthy. prince, maybe...redd no. hamilton, maybe. those guys arent the best in the leauge, and when you go to the olympics you take your best players. would i say iverson and james are better defenders. no i wouldnt...but id MUCH rather have iverson and james than bowen and prince. and i can say they're good shooters...seriously man how could anyone in the right mind pick redd or hamilton over some of these players...allen i understand, he's a damn good shooter...but hamilton...no, hamilton is the king of turnovers as well.

[CallMeChief]

unfortunately im being hypocritical because i cant stand shaq, but i would want him on team USA because he'd dominate. I'm not a fan of kobe or iverson on the team, but id sooner have iverson rather than kobe even though i like kobe more. i love billups on the team, i think wade needs to be on there, and id love garnett and brand moving in and out at PF. i feel bad because odom proved to be a crazy hard worker last year (i still remember the game he played when he was pretty much dead afterwords and just SOAKED in sweat) im jut not sure theres a place for him on the team. and i like duncan alot, but i think at some points on the team he hurt them (only on some occassions, i.e. his free throw shooting) all i know is i cant take another team USA letdown

[Caleb Cattivera]

unfortunately im being hypocritical because i cant stand shaq, but i would want him on team USA because he'd dominate. I'm not a fan of kobe or iverson on the team, but id sooner have iverson rather than kobe even though i like kobe more. i love billups on the team, i think wade needs to be on there, and id love garnett and brand moving in and out at PF. i feel bad because odom proved to be a crazy hard worker last year (i still remember the game he played when he was pretty much dead afterwords and just SOAKED in sweat) im jut not sure theres a place for him on the team. and i like duncan alot, but i think at some points on the team he hurt them (only on some occassions, i.e. his free throw shooting) all i know is i cant take another team USA letdown

your right for the most part. except about odom. alot of gm's still think odom hasnt proved himself in LA. and id agree. kobe needs someone besides lamar odom to run with. as long as its just kobe and odom and smush...the lakers are stuck without the playoffs. odom probably wont be in LA come febuary.

[getupkid53]

Caleb, you know too much about basketball..........thats not a bad thing.

[YouMadeTheScene]

hinrich isnt worthy of an olympic team...bowen isnt worthy. prince, maybe...redd no. hamilton, maybe. those guys arent the best in the leauge, and when you go to the olympics you take your best players. would i say iverson and james are better defenders. no i wouldnt...but id MUCH rather have iverson and james than bowen and prince. and i can say they're good shooters...seriously man how could anyone in the right mind pick redd or hamilton over some of these players...allen i understand, he's a damn good shooter...but hamilton...no, hamilton is the king of turnovers as well.

but it comes down to the game our best players play is combated well against the international players. They know how to shut down those guys.

[Caleb Cattivera]

but it comes down to the game our best players play is combated well against the international players. They know how to shut down those guys.

nahhh...trust me if bowen and prince were on our national team...we wouldnt win gold.

[Drew Beringer]

All I know is that Artest better be on Team USA.

[9mmREGRET]

Starters:

C Duncan
PF Garnett
SF James
SG Wade
PG Billups

Bench:

PF Brand
PF Marion
PF Howard
C J. O'Neal
SG Allen
SG Redd
PG Arenas

I left Iverson and Bryant off because I don't think they would work well with a loaded team like this. Arenas has potential to end up like they would, but I figured what the hell.

no t-mac?


:shake:

[Goodbye Forever]

I honestly just kind've forgot about him. I wrote that up while doing a Spanish paper. You can take out your choice of Allen or Redd and throw him in.

[weezer182]

id much rather have a team that plays well together then some all-star team that has no chemistry at all. the reason why so many international teams are doing well is because they are unselfish and have are more use to playing with each other. basically they play good team basketball. the u.s team on the other hand is just thrown together with really not that much time to prepare or practice together. people tend to think that if you throw tons of all-stars together they will easily win and thats shown not to be the case

[somethingyellow]

nahhh...trust me if bowen and prince were on our national team...we wouldnt win gold.
why not? how many other countries in the world have tons of great players? bowen or prince in a lot of countries would be one of there top players. Its about how well the team plays together not about all these superstars. You can't say that everybody on Argentina or Italy are better then bowen or prince. With the exception of Ginobili, Bowen or Prince would be the second best player on that team. They just play together as a team a lot better which is all the US needs to do. Our talent level is way too good to ever lose

[Fullcollapse3k]

C - Tim Duncan
PF - Kevin Garnett
SF - LeBron James
SG - Dwyane Wade
PG - Allen Iverson

Sit down, rest of the world.

[YouMadeTheScene]

A lot of people are forgetting a lot of these guys won't play that you are naming.

[Caleb Cattivera]

id much rather have a team that plays well together then some all-star team that has no chemistry at all. the reason why so many international teams are doing well is because they are unselfish and have are more use to playing with each other. basically they play good team basketball. the u.s team on the other hand is just thrown together with really not that much time to prepare or practice together. people tend to think that if you throw tons of all-stars together they will easily win and thats shown not to be the case

in 92 and 96 they threw the best players in the leauge together and they were able to dominate the competition. 92's team was unreal we all know who was on that team.

96 was barkley, penny, hill, malone, miller, hakeem, shaq, payton, pippen, richmond, d rob, and stockton.

even in 2000 we won gold. we had abdur rahim, ray allen, vin baker, vince carter, kevin garnett, tim hardaway, jason kidd, allan houston, antonio mcydess, alonzo mourning, gary payton and steve smith.
all of those teams played so well together. no one person took charge of the teams. only one player out of those three teams averaged more than 15 ppg, and that was barkley in 92.

the great thing about usa basketball is there's different starters every game, we put the lineup that suits playing the other team best. only one player out of those three teams started every game for his respective usa squad. michael jordan started all 8 games in 92.

then we embarassed ourselves in 2004. some players didnt belong on that team. boozer, okafor, jefferson, carmelo...larry brown was a horrible coach. giving more pt to the likes of boozer, jefferson, and odom...rather than to james and amare.

i dont think that it's a matter of all stars playing together. because it's proven in the past to work. look at 92, 96, and 00...in 2004, we just didnt bring our best players and we were out done.

[Caleb Cattivera]

why not? how many other countries in the world have tons of great players? bowen or prince in a lot of countries would be one of there top players. Its about how well the team plays together not about all these superstars. You can't say that everybody on Argentina or Italy are better then bowen or prince. With the exception of Ginobili, Bowen or Prince would be the second best player on that team. They just play together as a team a lot better which is all the US needs to do. Our talent level is way too good to ever lose

do you know how many international players are out there? and are generating buzz. there's a ton of them that we never hear about until they're drafted in the nba. prince and bowen are NOT good enough to represent USA in basketball in my OPINION.

[CallMeChief]

your right for the most part. except about odom. alot of gm's still think odom hasnt proved himself in LA. and id agree. kobe needs someone besides lamar odom to run with. as long as its just kobe and odom and smush...the lakers are stuck without the playoffs. odom probably wont be in LA come febuary.

yea i know what you mean. unfortunately i love odom, and i respect ALOT that he's kept so quiet when he has every right to be completely unhappy in L.A., and you can tell he is, but he never publicly denounces the administration or the team, at least not in a harsh way. i hope he gets traded because i like his game alot.

you're definitely my basketball mentor, im pretty sure you know more than half the analysts for ESPN and NBA.com

[weezer182]

in 92 and 96 they threw the best players in the leauge together and they were able to dominate the competition. 92's team was unreal we all know who was on that team.

96 was barkley, penny, hill, malone, miller, hakeem, shaq, payton, pippen, richmond, d rob, and stockton.

even in 2000 we won gold. we had abdur rahim, ray allen, vin baker, vince carter, kevin garnett, tim hardaway, jason kidd, allan houston, antonio mcydess, alonzo mourning, gary payton and steve smith.
all of those teams played so well together. no one person took charge of the teams. only one player out of those three teams averaged more than 15 ppg, and that was barkley in 92.

the great thing about usa basketball is there's different starters every game, we put the lineup that suits playing the other team best. only one player out of those three teams started every game for his respective usa squad. michael jordan started all 8 games in 92.

then we embarassed ourselves in 2004. some players didnt belong on that team. boozer, okafor, jefferson, carmelo...larry brown was a horrible coach. giving more pt to the likes of boozer, jefferson, and odom...rather than to james and amare.

i dont think that it's a matter of all stars playing together. because it's proven in the past to work. look at 92, 96, and 00...in 2004, we just didnt bring our best players and we were out done. international play has improved greatly since the 90s. i dont care what nba players are on the team. any nba player should be able to compete and win on a national team. all the good players from the world come to the u.s to play and usually there are only one or two nba players on these international teams. why do they beat us with only a couple nba players if that and our whole team is full of nba players??? chemistry is what is going to win. not a bunch of selfish superstars unless these superstars learn how to play together

[somethingyellow]

do you know how many international players are out there? and are generating buzz. there's a ton of them that we never hear about until they're drafted in the nba. prince and bowen are NOT good enough to represent USA in basketball in my OPINION.
Yes I know that there are a lot of good international players now. But common the best of the best come to the NBA. I'm sure other countries have players that have more potential then bowen or prince but as of now i'd still stand by my claim that they would be one of the top players in most countries. Argentina's second best player in the last olympics, Luis Scola isnt even in the NBA anymore. I just don't think we need to have all these superstars. Our problem ISN'T talent, it is how we play as a team.

[Caleb Cattivera]

international play has improved greatly since the 90s. i dont care what nba players are on the team. any nba player should be able to compete and win on a national team. all the good players from the world come to the u.s to play and usually there are only one or two nba players on these international teams. why do they beat us with only a couple nba players if that and our whole team is full of nba players??? chemistry is what is going to win. not a bunch of selfish superstars unless these superstars learn how to play together

it has improved...i wouldnt say greatly...and not just ANY nba player should be able to compete and win. let's have a starting lineup of michael olowakandi, derek fisher, kareem rush, jason collins, and ronald murray and lets see what happens. chemistry does something to do with it...but in years past chemistry hasnt been a problem...until 2004...and honestly i dont think 2004 would've been as bad had there been a couple of other palyers in there and a different coach. i wouldnt say any of the players listed on any of our teams would be considered 'selfish superstars' except kobe bryant.

[weezer182]

like i said earlier if you put the detroit pistons in the olympics, without darko and arroyo, they would easily win it all

[Caleb Cattivera]

Yes I know that there are a lot of good international players now. But common the best of the best come to the NBA. I'm sure other countries have players that have more potential then bowen or prince but as of now i'd still stand by my claim that they would be one of the top players in most countries. Argentina's second best player in the last olympics, Luis Scola isnt even in the NBA anymore. I just don't think we need to have all these superstars. Our problem ISN'T talent, it is how we play as a team.

the bst dont always come to the nba either, some dont want to leave their home countries...so there's no telling who's hiding over there. bowen and prince are good players, but once again, if we want to win we're gonna have to take better than that overseas.

[Caleb Cattivera]

yea i know what you mean. unfortunately i love odom, and i respect ALOT that he's kept so quiet when he has every right to be completely unhappy in L.A., and you can tell he is, but he never publicly denounces the administration or the team, at least not in a harsh way. i hope he gets traded because i like his game alot.

you're definitely my basketball mentor, im pretty sure you know more than half the analysts for ESPN and NBA.com

haha that made me kinda chuckle. but thanks. if i could do anything with my life i would want to be an analyst for the nba or something. that'd be amazing. and if there was a stump the schwab just for basketball, i think i might be able to handle him...MAYBE. haha.
\\
as for odom, he has kept quiet, which is good. and he had a good season 15 and 10 is pretty damn good. his best in the pros so far. but i think he can produce alot more on a different team. he's a good defensive player and can be quick, id like to see him run with the suns.

[somethingyellow]

the bst dont always come to the nba either, some dont want to leave their home countries...so there's no telling who's hiding over there. bowen and prince are good players, but once again, if we want to win we're gonna have to take better than that overseas.
how did argentina win last olympics? do you really wanna go down their whole roster and compare our team with theres when they beat us, cuz i can tell u right now on paper it would look like a blow out in favor of the US. Common caleb are u saying that we lost then because argentina had better players then us?

[Caleb Cattivera]

like i said earlier if you put the detroit pistons in the olympics, without darko and arroyo, they would easily win it all

easily? no...

[Caleb Cattivera]

how did argentina win last olympics? do you really wanna go down their whole roster and compare our team with theres when they beat us, cuz i can tell u right now on paper it would look like a blow out in favor of the US. Common caleb are u saying that we lost then because argentina had better players then us?

argentina did have some better players. ill admit it...we had some young guys on the team and had we brought veterans there wouldnt have been a problem. but in the end, it doesnt matter who WE pick...alot of players are invitied but rarely do they want to play during their time off. in 2008 we'll probably send over some second teir players, maybe a few starts...and get our asses handed to us...again.

[itsjdiggity]

Starting:
PG: Dwayne Wade
SG: Ray Allen
SF: Ron Artest
PF: Elton Brand
C: Tim Duncan

Bench:
Fred Hoiberg
Kevin Garnett
Michael Redd
Lebron James
Luke Ridnour
Amare Stoudamire
Shaquille O'Neal

[somethingyellow]

Starting:
PG: Dwayne Wade
SG: Ray Allen
SF: Ron Artest
PF: Elton Brand
C: Tim Duncan

Bench:
Fred Hoiberg
Kevin Garnett
Michael Redd
Lebron James
Luke Ridnour
Amare Stoudamire
Shaquille O'Neal
haha wheres nick collison

[itsjdiggity]

http://www.usabasketball.com/images/collison_2002training.jpg

[somethingyellow]

argentina did have some better players. ill admit it...we had some young guys on the team and had we brought veterans there wouldnt have been a problem. but in the end, it doesnt matter who WE pick...alot of players are invitied but rarely do they want to play during their time off. in 2008 we'll probably send over some second teir players, maybe a few starts...and get our asses handed to us...again.
i dont think your getting my point. our problem isnt the talent we are sending over its how they play as a team. plain and simple we got beat because we didn't play the best "team basketball". we have the best players, we had the best players of any team last olympics. My point was to put together a team who would play as one together, guys who arent scorers and defenders and role players like NBA teams have and have them compete

[YouMadeTheScene]

You'd think that simply by watching pro teams like the Yankees, Heat, Lakers (with malone and payton) and so on teams like that that are just based on names and talent, don't automatically win.

It's about role players. Teams that play well together and have good chemistry and mesh well win. Look at the White Sox. Look at the Pistons. Look at Tampa bay Lightning. Look at the Bears this years. Yeah you need a couple of studs in there but you need role players too.

[somethingyellow]

http://www.usabasketball.com/images/collison_2002training.jpg
haha, classic

[somethingyellow]

You'd think that simply by watching pro teams like the Yankees, Heat, Lakers (with malone and payton) and so on teams like that that are just based on names and talent, don't automatically win.

It's about role players. Teams that play well together and have good chemistry and mesh well win. Look at the White Sox. Look at the Pistons. Look at Tampa bay Lightning. Look at the Bears this years. Yeah you need a couple of studs in there but you need role players too.
exactly my point ;)

[Caleb Cattivera]

probably one of the hidden gems in international play is jose ortiz from puerto rico. played two years at oregon state, one of those years with gary payton giving him the ball. in two years at osu he average 20 ppg and 9 rpg. he was voted the pac 10 player of the year in 87(defeated reggie miller). just never really found his place in the nba, getting drafted by utah in the first round of the 87 draft, and playing behind karl malone...he opted to head back to puerto rico and play ball there. even in his last apperance in the olympics he was offered an nba roster spot from nba scouts from he hawks, clippers, heat, knicks, and magic...and this was at the age of 39...

this is just an example of great players that are hiding over seas...we dont know whats out there man, that's all im saying...we need to go over there prepared, and not with just some second teir players. better to be safe than sorry.

[weezer182]

easily? no...why wouldnt they? 13-2 in the nba against the best competition. they are use to playing together as a team. they would have the most talent out of all the international teams and they would have the most chemistry since they play together every day during the nba season. i just dont see how any international team can beat them... not to mentional most nba teams have a hard time beating them. here is an example if it makes sense... the spurs barely beat the pistons in the finals last year right? and argentina won the gold. so take everyone off this spurs team (such as duncan, parker ect...) except ginobili and replace them with the rest of the argentina national team. if the pistons barely lost to the spurs in the finals last year with duncan parker ect... they would easily beat an argentina team with ginobili on it

[Caleb Cattivera]

You'd think that simply by watching pro teams like the Yankees, Heat, Lakers (with malone and payton) and so on teams like that that are just based on names and talent, don't automatically win.

It's about role players. Teams that play well together and have good chemistry and mesh well win. Look at the White Sox. Look at the Pistons. Look at Tampa bay Lightning. Look at the Bears this years. Yeah you need a couple of studs in there but you need role players too.

i could've told you the lakers wouldnt have won it all by adding an old malone, and a not as helpful payton.

i havnet denied that having team chemistry is important...because it is. but im saying that we dont need to go over there under prepared. we need to take the best of the best...not the best of the second teir.

[itsjdiggity]

i dont think your getting my point. our problem isnt the talent we are sending over its how they play as a team. plain and simple we got beat because we didn't play the best "team basketball". we have the best players, we had the best players of any team last olympics. My point was to put together a team who would play as one together, guys who arent scorers and defenders and role players like NBA teams have and have them compete

that's why i don't want iverson on the team

[weezer182]

i could've told you the lakers wouldnt have won it all by adding an old malone, and a not as helpful payton.

i havnet denied that having team chemistry is important...because it is. but im saying that we dont need to go over there under prepared. we need to take the best of the best...not the best of the second teir.i understand. in my opinion id rather take good players who play well together. over the best players that dont play well together. the reason i think we are under prepared too is because these players think they will easily beat these international teams just on talent alone and that wasnt enough. i dont think we are lacking talent...its chemistry that we are "currently" having a problem with

[Caleb Cattivera]

why wouldnt they? 13-2 in the nba against the best competition. they are use to playing together as a team. they would have the most talent out of all the international teams and they would have the most chemistry since they play together every day during the nba season. i just dont see how any international team can beat them... not to mentional most nba teams have a hard time beating them. here is an example if it makes sense... the spurs barely beat the pistons in the finals last year right? and argentina won the gold. so take everyone off this spurs team (such as duncan, parker ect...) except ginobili and replace them with the rest of the argentina national team. if the pistons barely lost to the spurs in the finals last year with duncan parker ect... they would easily beat an argentina team with ginobili on it

they barely lost...but they lost. that's all that matters. and if we're going that rout, they barely beat the heat in the conference finals. they have good starters...but i dont think they could win it all overseas...their bench wouldnt be able to handle the overseas competion i dont think. once again, all of our commetns are opinions...none of us are backing down...but in the end...


we all know im right. :P

[YouMadeTheScene]

i could've told you the lakers wouldnt have won it all by adding an old malone, and a not as helpful payton.

i havnet denied that having team chemistry is important...because it is. but im saying that we dont need to go over there under prepared. we need to take the best of the best...not the best of the second teir.


I see what you are saying but the one thing that I think is wrong with that is that it could be the best of our best play a certain way that the international players are able to combat and stop. These are the things I think we need on our team whatever players you have to put there find

1) Outside Shooters- Guys who have a great jump shot and also some 3 point shooting. Maybe one 3 point specialist

2)Perimeter Defense- Thats where a guy like a Bowen or Prince are priceless. James and Iverson are great but they aren't amazing at perimeter defense and aren't shut down defenders.

3)International Type PG- A guy who is pass first plays solid defense and is a great decision maker. I love Iverson and think he is a fantastic NBA PG just not an International PG.

4)Agile Big Man- A big man who can pass and move around and isn't stationary. Simple as that. Brad Miller really is perfet for that.

[Caleb Cattivera]

i understand. in my opinion id rather take good players who play well together. over the best players that dont play well together. the reason i think we are under prepared too is because these players think they will easily beat these international teams just on talent alone and that wasnt enough. i dont think we are lacking talent...its chemistry that we are "currently" having a problem with

you bring up a very valid point that ive failed to notice. i think our players go in with the mentality that they are better and that they're just going to dominate like the 92 team did...not quite.

[Caleb Cattivera]

I see what you are saying but the one thing that I think is wrong with that is that it could be the best of our best play a certain way that the international players are able to combat and stop. These are the things I think we need on our team whatever players you have to put there find

1) Outside Shooters- Guys who have a great jump shot and also some 3 point shooting. Maybe one 3 point specialist

2)Perimeter Defense- Thats where a guy like a Bowen or Prince are priceless. James and Iverson are great but they aren't amazing at perimeter defense and aren't shut down defenders.

3)International Type PG- A guy who is pass first plays solid defense and is a great decision maker. I love Iverson and think he is a fantastic NBA PG just not an International PG.

4)Agile Big Man- A big man who can pass and move around and isn't stationary. Simple as that. Brad Miller really is perfet for that.

ill agree with some points you bring there...except the agile big man. if you put shaq in there...no one over seas can contend with him. it's impossible. he should hands down be the starter for usa basketball. hell guys in the nba can barely contain him...guys overseas wouldnt be able to. brad miller's good...but he cant hold a candle to shaq. nor can anyone else in the leauge really, based on pure dominance. i still dont think that bowen and prince are going to make a big difference. james and iverson are much better suitors for the usa team. bowen and prince arent even the second or third best players on their team...just defense alone isnt going to cut it. if they're going to be on the floor, they need to be producing on both ends, which given, prince can do when he wants to...but bowen...that's a different story.

[YouMadeTheScene]

ill agree with some points you bring there...except the agile big man. if you put shaq in there...no one over seas can contend with him. it's impossible. he should hands down be the starter for usa basketball. hell guys in the nba can barely contain him...guys overseas wouldnt be able to. brad miller's good...but he cant hold a candle to shaq. nor can anyone else in the leauge really, based on pure dominance. i still dont think that bowen and prince are going to make a big difference. james and iverson are much better suitors for the usa team. bowen and prince arent even the second or third best players on their team...just defense alone isnt going to cut it. if they're going to be on the floor, they need to be producing on both ends, which given, prince can do when he wants to...but bowen...that's a different story.

Shaq is really questionable though as it is 2 years from now and there is a great chance he won't be playing anymore. And as for Bowen and Prince they would be off the bench guys.

[weezer182]

they barely lost...but they lost. that's all that matters. and if we're going that rout, they barely beat the heat in the conference finals. they have good starters...but i dont think they could win it all overseas...their bench wouldnt be able to handle the overseas competion i dont think. once again, all of our commetns are opinions...none of us are backing down...but in the end...


we all know im right. :Phaha yea but my point is if you brought a team like the pistons into the tournament they would win. you could take any good team with american based players like the pistons or heat into the olympics and they would win. as far as the bench not being able to compete with the overseas competition i dont agree with that. the nba is the best competion in the world. if you can compete in the nba you can compete against overseas players.yea there might be some really good players that are"hiding overseas" but a majority of the best international players come to the nba for the money and competition. i just think if you brought in a good team, like the heat or pistons with a lot of talent and team chemistry they would win

[Caleb Cattivera]

Shaq is really questionable though as it is 2 years from now and there is a great chance he won't be playing anymore. And as for Bowen and Prince they would be off the bench guys.

ok ok...ill go with prince...because he can produce on offense...bowen, no. but this entire time we've been arguing i thought we were saying they should be starters...but yeah prince would be nice to come off the bench.

as for shaq. last year when he was traded to the heat he said he wanted to play for another five or six years. so i think he'll still be around, dominating even at age 34. he's still able to put up good numbers. as for brad miller...ill give him this, he's probably the best passing center in the leauge. ive seen games where he's had more assists than fucking bibby. insane.

[YouMadeTheScene]

ok ok...ill go with prince...because he can produce on offense...bowen, no. but this entire time we've been arguing i thought we were saying they should be starters...but yeah prince would be nice to come off the bench.

as for shaq. last year when he was traded to the heat he said he wanted to play for another five or six years. so i think he'll still be around, dominating even at age 34. he's still able to put up good numbers. as for brad miller...ill give him this, he's probably the best passing center in the leauge. ive seen games where he's had more assists than fucking bibby. insane.

I guess he will still be playing but I think he'd want to save himself for NBA time not Olympics like he has.

As for Miller...EXACTLY! Think of the majority of Great European centers you've seen specifically Smits and Sabonis those are the types of guys you need to play the international game and if you can't have Shaq I'd take Miller for Olympic play.

[weezer182]

its been another good day in the sports forum :)

[Caleb Cattivera]

I guess he will still be playing but I think he'd want to save himself for NBA time not Olympics like he has.

As for Miller...EXACTLY! Think of the majority of Great European centers you've seen specifically Smits and Sabonis those are the types of guys you need to play the international game and if you can't have Shaq I'd take Miller for Olympic play.

yeah miller would be a good center off the bench regardless. he's a good all around player. but if we're gonna talk about good centers who are good passers...vlade HAS to be mentioned. i remember a few games he's put up, one i recall pretty easily is 14 pts, 11 rebs, and 11 asts in 04. that's insane for a big man...

im outta here for awhile guys. hope you all have an awesome night.

[Caleb Cattivera]

its been another good day in the sports forum :)

haha yeah it has. i think this is one of the few times ive disagreed with you and something yellow...

hope you guys have a good evening im goin to get some dinner with the old lady.

[weezer182]

I guess he will still be playing but I think he'd want to save himself for NBA time not Olympics like he has.

As for Miller...EXACTLY! Think of the majority of Great European centers you've seen specifically Smits and Sabonis those are the types of guys you need to play the international game and if you can't have Shaq I'd take Miller for Olympic play.my question is why do we need to play the olympic game? if anything teams should be adjusting to the way we play

[weezer182]

haha yeah it has. i think this is one of the few times ive disagreed with you and something yellow...

hope you guys have a good evening im goin to get some dinner with the old lady.have fun

[Backseat Dreams]

C Duncan/Shaq if he's healthy
PF Ben Wallace/camby
SF Ron Artest/lebron
SG Ray allen/redd
PG Kid/nash



I know this isn't the flashiest lineup but you have you're pure shooter in allen and low post presence in duncant. The rest are filled in by team players who rebound, pass, and most importantly play defense. The only reason Lebron is not in the starting role is because he's young and hasn't been on a team where he wasnt the #1 guy. I'm not saying he's not one of the best nba players, but he hasnt had a chance to prove he can blend in with other all-stars in a competive environment (all star games dont count). I'd pick him to come off the bench and play like 20 minutes.

[weezer182]

C Duncan/Shaq if he's healthy
PF Ben Wallace/camby
SF Ron Artest/lebron
SG Ray allen/redd
PG Kid/nash



I know this isn't the flashiest lineup but you have you're pure shooter in allen and low post presence in duncant. The rest are filled in by team players who rebound, pass, and most importantly play defense. The only reason Lebron is not in the starting role is because he's young and hasn't been on a team where he wasnt the #1 guy. I'm not saying he's not one of the best nba players, but he hasnt had a chance to prove he can blend in with other all-stars in a competive environment (all star games dont count). I'd pick him to come off the bench and play like 20 minutes.nash is NOT american he is canadian and even if he was....why would you want kidd starting over him??


im surprised how many people think nash is american. i thought it was pretty obviously he was canadian. maybe not

[Caleb Cattivera]

nash is NOT american he is canadian and even if he was....why would you want kidd starting over him??


im surprised how many people think nash is american. i thought it was pretty obviously he was canadian. maybe not

yeah alot of people think nash is american. crazy.

haha i opted to stay here and be aloser.

[somethingyellow]

nash should make every canadian proud

[weezer182]

yeah alot of people think nash is american. crazy.

haha i opted to stay here and be aloser.haha i forgot you are three hours ahead. so when you said you were going to dinner i looked up and it was 2pm haha.

[somethingyellow]

hey caleb, i was wondering who your friend is on the hawks

[itsjdiggity]

nash should make every canadian proud

haha...you sure about that?
http://www.nba.com/media/nash_gq_051202_01.jpg

[Caleb Cattivera]

hey caleb, i was wondering who your friend is on the hawks

donta smith. he just got sent down to the nbdl to play for the arkansas rim rockers for a few days to work on some things. he'll be back this week.

[itsjdiggity]

donta smith. he just got sent down to the nbdl to play for the arkansas rim rockers for a few days to work on some things. he'll be back this week.

when you go to hawks games, do you sit near T.O.?

[somethingyellow]

haha...you sure about that?

haha he did date elizabeth hurley ;)

[somethingyellow]

donta smith. he just got sent down to the nbdl to play for the arkansas rim rockers for a few days to work on some things. he'll be back this week.
sweet

[Talib Scottie]

I would have picked Ron Artest but the thought of him carving USA in his hair makes me cringe

[somethingyellow]

I would have picked Ron Artest but the thought of him carving USA in his hair makes me cringe
i heard a possible trade rumor ron artest for peja stojakovic

[Talib Scottie]

i heard a possible trade rumor ron artest for peja stojakovic
Eh, I think Indiana should stick with Artest, personally.

[somethingyellow]

Eh, I think Indiana should stick with Artest, personally.
ya me too but i guess he wants to be traded

[Talib Scottie]

ya me too but i guess he wants to be traded
haha, well then, I'd give him what he wants, I'm sure he's going to cause quite a ruckus if he wants out.

[YouMadeTheScene]

If that trade happeend I would love the Kings even if they would have no offense. Artest, Bibby, and Brad Miller are just absolute studs I love all of them. It's a pretty weak Free Agent Class coming up in the post season but if they could pick up a solid scoring SG they would be fantastic.

[weezer182]

im a little surprised how bad the kings are doing this year

[Talib Scottie]

Artest scores quite a few points... somehow.

[somethingyellow]

If that trade happeend I would love the Kings even if they would have no offense. Artest, Bibby, and Brad Miller are just absolute studs I love all of them. It's a pretty weak Free Agent Class coming up in the post season but if they could pick up a solid scoring SG they would be fantastic.
this is all according to stephen a. smith, but he said he hasnt heard anything from the kings about it

[YouMadeTheScene]

Artest scores quite a few points... somehow.

Not enough to really be a reliable leading scorer on a Basketball team

this is all according to stephen a. smith, but he said he hasnt heard anything from the kings about it

i listen to Stephen A. every day almost and he is pretty reliable in his info.

[Talib Scottie]

Not enough to really be a reliable leading scorer on a Basketball team
19.4 is not too shabby, I don't think he's capable of carrying the team's scoring load.

[YouMadeTheScene]

19.4 is not too shabby, I don't think he's capable of carrying the team's scoring load.

Maybe if they can swing Peja for Artest and then if Boston is playing shitty after the break and Paul Pierce is getting antsy you send Bonzi Wells (Expiring Contract), Corliss Williamson (Not this year the next) Jason Hart (Player Option) and a 1st Round maybe for Pierce if they can take on Mark Blount and a 2nd Rounder.

[itsjdiggity]

peja is playing fairly inconsistent this year

[YouMadeTheScene]

peja is playing fairly inconsistent this year

pretty sure he is an expiring contract though

[itsjdiggity]

i would take artest over peja in a second

[Emopunkthrice]

i would take artest over peja in a second
double that....brand better be on this team, or I'm going to have to kick some asses.

[Backseat Dreams]

nash is NOT american he is canadian and even if he was....why would you want kidd starting over him??


im surprised how many people think nash is american. i thought it was pretty obviously he was canadian. maybe not

my bad. i knew that but i forgot. I saw someone else posted him so he was fresh in my mind

[fluke182]

Umm...no. that team would get their asses handed to them.

lets look at 2004's roster.

Anthony, Boozer, Iverson, James, Duncan, Jefferson, Marbury, Marion, Odom, Okafor, Stoudemire, and Wade.

That team got third. With Iverson, Duncan, Lebron, Amare, Wade, and the rest of those guys. And you want to pick Kirk Hinrich, who at best is a medicore player in the nba? Prince? Billups starting? I agree with some of your choices, Brand, Shaq, Iverson, Duncan are all good choices, even ray allen. But marcus Camby, no...he's having a good season this year, but he's outdoing himself from years past. one great season out of 9 good seasons...doesnt grant him a starting spot. after 2004 when we embarassed ourselves, we need to put the best possible team together...and kirk hinrich, tashuayn prince, michael redd...that's not our best basketball players.

the international game is not abotu size your right...but it's also not about sucking either.
You need shooters and defenders. International basketball has changed. Your team would get dominated, and honestly, my team would probably breeze to the gold. 1 on 1 players don't get you gold medals, team play and shooting does.