Paul Kariya

[preppyak]

Does anyone happen to have video of that goal he scored against New Jersey a few years back?

It's the one where he got knocked unconscious by Scott Stevens and then came back and scored in the third period.

I just remember that being one of the most incredible things I had ever seen, and wondered if anyone had the highlight reel video of it.

[hockey0001]

http://www.nhl.com/cupcrazy2003/

about halfway down the page theres a link to video highlights of the series. I havent watched but it could be in there.

http://stuntcook.com/index.php?i=10897

that one has the hit by stevens, and other of his hits, but not the goal

[mikeford]

yeah, i have the video of him getting pwned, but not scoring the goal...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/mikeford/stevenskariya.jpg

fuck paul kariya

devils won the cup anyway, beyotch.

[JezisHChrist]

http://stuntcook.com/index.php?i=10897

that one has the hit by stevens, and other of his hits, but not the goal
Wow that was sweet. Did anyone else notice that in most of those hits, Stevens ended up taking out one of his players, too?

[lineslikehooks]

They are all open ice, only one or two is along the boards. I never really realized how huge his hits were. What a monster.

[mikeford]

Scott Stevens is the best defensive defenseman in NHL history.

don't believe me after watching those hits?

career +393 in +/-, which is basically the best measure of a defensive defenseman, statwise.

yeah, thats the alltime lead, by the way.

[aminorthreat55]

He should've been called for elbowing on half of those.

I remember the Ron Francis one, that shit was insane, just watching him not even being able to stand up and glide 50 feet.

[mikeford]

He should've been called for elbowing on half of those.

I remember the Ron Francis one, that shit was insane, just watching him not even being able to stand up and glide 50 feet.

his elbow is tucked for all but maybe one of them.

you can hit someone with your elbow, so long as you dont extend it to do so.

[aminorthreat55]

his elbow is tucked for all but maybe one of them.

you can hit someone with your elbow, so long as you dont extend it to do so.
I know what it is jackass, I've played hockey for years. Stevens is good at hiding it, which is something you learn to do over the years, but it should've been called on the hits they listed as 8, 7, 5, 1. The rest are clean. That may be the general interpretation of the rule, but refs call it almost every time you take it to the chin, face, or head.

[hockey0001]

I know what it is jackass, I've played hockey for years. Stevens is good at hiding it, which is something you learn to do over the years, but it should've been called on the hits they listed as 8, 7, 5, 1. The rest are clean. That may be the general interpretation of the rule, but refs call it almost every time you take it to the chin, face, or head.

I think part of reason that he gets away with the elbow is that he did had a reputation of hitting cleanly. Also, none of them are blatant elbows, it mostly just him following through with the hit and extending his arm after.

[mikeford]

dude, the hit on lindros is with his shoulder, his shoulder hits lindros' head, lindros head hits pandolfos shoulder, and then it hits the ice.


youre tripping if you think his elbow is involved in the lindros hit.

[itsjdiggity]

i liked his commentary on the Ducks-Iceland game

[hockey0001]

dude, the hit on lindros is with his shoulder, his shoulder hits lindros' head, lindros head hits pandolfos shoulder, and then it hits the ice.


youre tripping if you think his elbow is involved in the lindros hit.

I think 7 and 5 are the only ones he should have been called for elbowing on. The hit on Lindros is great. Its typical Lindors skating with his head down, and then he gets crushed.

[mikeford]

i think its great because eric lindros is the biggest pussy ever.:bigsmile:

[hockey0001]

i think its great because eric lindros is the biggest pussy ever.:bigsmile:

well that too

[aminorthreat55]

dude, the hit on lindros is with his shoulder, his shoulder hits lindros' head, lindros head hits pandolfos shoulder, and then it hits the ice.


youre tripping if you think his elbow is involved in the lindros hit.
The contact between Stevens and Lindros is below his shoulder; Lindros' head hits Steven's upper arm, and Stevens drives his elbow straight into his chin/jaw. If it were high-res I'd screen shot it for you. If the video wasn't disgustingly blurry I could give you conclusive evidence, but alas I can't.

[aminorthreat55]

i think its great because eric lindros is the biggest pussy ever.:bigsmile:
Yeah I'm not a fan.

[mikeford]

Yeah I'm not a fan.

well obviously, since youre a fan of a team with a soul

i respect the guins cuz i always liked lemiuex

to the point where i defend him as better than gretzky.

[richter915]

i think its great because eric lindros is the biggest pussy ever.:bigsmile:
fuck that. Stevens is a pussy. "ok, I'm gonna wait for the guy to look the other way and then deck him so that all my inbred fans can cheer for me. Then I'll retire because the league has decided to finally call penalties for half my hits" If you can't see that Stevens does that, you're just blind. He retired cause the trap was dismantled and he no longer has any role. That's a pussy.

or how about Lindros still being in the game longer than him? Even after all the injuries? Oh ya, big pussy right there. Fuck you, fuck the devils.

[richter915]

well obviously, since youre a fan of a team with a soul

i respect the guins cuz i always liked lemiuex

to the point where i defend him as better than gretzky.
Lemieux > Gretzky

if he was put on a team like the Oilers of the early 80s, he woulda shattered any of the numbers gretzky put up. He was put on a great team with the early 90s pens but I doubt anyone could compare the two.

[aminorthreat55]

well obviously, since youre a fan of a team with a soul

i respect the guins cuz i always liked lemiuex

to the point where i defend him as better than gretzky.
Lemieux is a better all-around player, but in terms of playmaking, you can't deny Gretzky is better. I think the same goes for Ovechkin and Crosby.

[mikeford]

fuck that. Stevens is a pussy. "ok, I'm gonna wait for the guy to look the other way and then deck him so that all my inbred fans can cheer for me. Then I'll retire because the league has decided to finally call penalties for half my hits" If you can't see that Stevens does that, you're just blind. He retired cause the trap was dismantled and he no longer has any role. That's a pussy.

or how about Lindros still being in the game longer than him? Even after all the injuries? Oh ya, big pussy right there. Fuck you, fuck the devils.

oh yeah, i BET thats why he retired

cuz you know, he wasnt a great defenseman before the trap

oh, and he hadnt been in the league for TWENTY FUCKING YEARS when he decided to retire.

if someone puts their head down, they deserve to get mowed down.

[richter915]

Lemieux is a better all-around player, but in terms of playmaking, you can't deny Gretzky is better. I think the same goes for Ovechkin and Crosby.
you ever watch any clips of Gretzky and Lemieux playing together during the olympics for team canada? Absolutely beautiful. ya it's much like the connections people draw today about Zetterberg and Datsyuk...they can just read each other's minds.

[richter915]

oh yeah, i BET thats why he retired

cuz you know, he wasnt a great defenseman before the trap

oh, and he hadnt been in the league for TWENTY FUCKING YEARS when he decided to retire.

if someone puts their head down, they deserve to get mowed down.
I didn't see any other reason...he seemed to be in top physical shape (maybe a little tired but I don't recall any major injuries or anything...maybe he just lost his "passion for the game" cause of the whole lockout but that'd be another pussy reason)...he had a few more seasons left...but he knew with the new rules they would not be successful.

Just to make it clear, I don't have much respect for blindesided hits and things like that...ya I know hockey is a violent and physical sport...and I love the fights just as much as anyone else...but when you leave a guy who can't get back onto his feet...I dunno. More into the offense (why I'd say Leetch is ten times more the defenseman than Stevens).

Anyway, most of the hits, like it was pointed it, involved a player with their head down but also being harassed at the time by another devils player...so the guy is already trying to fend off someone, trying to control the puck, trying to find an open man...please, find me someone who can anticipate a hit like that with those conditions? With the size of players like Lindros, it's almost impossible to avoid it. It's almost like tag-team wrestling...you get your partner to hold the guy while you come and mow him down. Kinda low.

[mikeford]

UH

POST CONCUSSION SYNDROME

its why he missed 90% of 03-04

[richter915]

UH

POST CONCUSSION SYNDROME

its why he missed 90% of 03-04
well, that shut me up.

but we're so quick to forget that Lindros has went through the same shit..more than once too...he's still around (not making a big impact, but he's there). So to say he's a pussy is crap in my opinion.

[mikeford]

nah, theres a difference between getting a concussion and having post concussion syndrome (ask jason allison)

post concussion syndrome leads to shit like vertigo.

[hockey0001]

Lemieux > Gretzky

if he was put on a team like the Oilers of the early 80s, he woulda shattered any of the numbers gretzky put up. He was put on a great team with the early 90s pens but I doubt anyone could compare the two.


Orr > Gretzky > Lemieux

[mikeford]

Orr > Gretzky > Lemieux


http://www.b9board.com/images/smiles/073.gif

[richter915]

nah, theres a difference between getting a concussion and having post concussion syndrome (ask jason allison)

post concussion syndrome leads to shit like vertigo.
this is true...post concussion syndrome took out mike richter (my favorite player, obviously)...it's vicious and can be caused by many things.

[aminorthreat55]

Orr > Gretzky > Lemieux
Haha no way. Bobby Orr is easily the greatest defenseman of all time, but he's not better than those two. Although I have this poster in my room:

http://www.bobbyorrhalloffame.com/pix_thegoal.jpg

[mikeford]

Haha no way. Bobby Orr is easily the greatest defenseman of all time, but he's not better than those two. Although I have this poster in my room:

http://www.bobbyorrhalloffame.com/pix_thegoal.jpg

no, hes the greatest OFFENSIVE defenseman

DEFENSIVE defenseman is still Stevens.

[aminorthreat55]

Let's compare merits here:
Orr:
NHL Totals: 657 games, 270 goals, 645 assists, 915 points, 953 PIM
1966-67 Calder Memorial Trophy 1967-68 James Norris Trophy 1968-69 James Norris Trophy
1969-70 Art Ross Trophy 1969-70 Hart Memorial Trophy 1969-70 Conn Smythe Trophy
1969-70 James Norris Trophy 1970-71 Hart Memorial Trophy 1970-71 James Norris Trophy
1971-72 Hart Memorial Trophy 1971-72 Conn Smythe Trophy 1971-72 James Norris Trophy
1972-73 James Norris Trophy 1973-74 James Norris Trophy 1974-75 Art Ross Trophy
1974-75 James Norris Trophy 1974-75 Lester B. Pearson Trophy

Stevens:
NHL Totals 1635 games, 196 goals, 712 assists, 908 points, 2785 PIM
1999-00 Conn Smythe Trophy

I'd say overall, Orr runs away with it.

[mikeford]

+/- is the only stat that matters for DEFENSIVE defensemen

[richter915]

things were easier in the 60s/70s...just kidding.

you can't really compare the two...one has a million trophies and the other spent nearly 48 hours of his life inside a 6X2 foot box.

[mikeford]

i mean i obviously think Orr was a better player but a strictly a defenseman, Stevens was better

Orr was basically a 4th forward for Boston.

[hockey0001]

i mean i obviously think Orr was a better player but a strictly a defenseman, Stevens was better

Orr was basically a 4th forward for Boston.

Orr was basically Boston's best forward. He scored over 100 points in 6 straight seasons, including 139 in 70-71 ( he was also +124 that year) and he won the norris trophy every year from '68-'75. He completely revolutionized the game. If his knees didnt give out on him and he played more than 10 years, you'd probably hear the orr vs gretzky debate much more.

[dont you move]

those stevens hits are all clean. the only reason you see the elbow extend is to kinda push the guy off. he does not hit the guy with his elbow. he hits with his upper shoulder and depending on the speed of the impact, it hurts just as much as an elbow. i always hear people say "oh refs don't call elbowing on stevens cuz he's never had one before". complete bullshit.

and if you say the kariya hit was not clean, tell me why the league had a whole article on their site explaining that the hit was clean. i'll admit it did come a little late but the hit was lined up before he made the pass.

as for saying stevens hits one of his guys when he hits other guys, i've noticed that the other guy is usually setting a quick screen. like the lindros hit. i actually think it's rafalski that skates in front of lindros before stevens hits him and stevens hits the back of his leg.

greatest defenseman ever? i'd probably say not the greatest but he's pretty much up there.

and saying that lindros is less of a pussy for staying in the league longer even with all those concussions? well stevens has nothing to prove anymore. 3 cup rings and a conn smythe. pardon me for not doing my research but has lindros won a cup yet?

i'd also like to add that saying that stevens would have no role in the new nhl is only partially wrong. sure, the trap is basically useless now. but with the devils doing as bad as they are now, what they need most is leadership. their captain retired and their next in line captain went to go play for the ducks cuz he wanted to play for his brother (lou lamouriello was actually trying to get his brother on the devils but then i guess he realized that he sucks) and now the devils next choice for captain is sidelined for who knows how long with hepatitis. stevens' leadership as a captain was a big factor in the devils' success in the past years.

[mikeford]

for the record, Elias has started skating again but there isn't a timetable set for his return yet.

I expect Scott Gomez and Matvichuck will be traded soon for a big name Dman.