Hypothetical NBA Draft

[bigmike]

If there was an NBA draft where the pool of players were the all time greats, who would you take #1 overall?

I'd take Magic over MJ.

In fact, I'd almost take Shaq/Wilt over MJ because of the way they dominate the middle like almost no other.

[Doug]

why wilt over bill russell?

[YouMadeTheScene]

I'm not sure. I may actually think about taking Bird.

[afk999]

id take chamberlain

[preppyak]

I'd take Magic over MJ.

In fact, I'd almost take Shaq/Wilt over MJ because of the way they dominate the middle like almost no other.
Yes and Yes. I'd also like to have a larry bird or another pure shooter on my team.

I'm not sure. I may actually think about taking Bird.
good, I'm not alone then

[somethingyellow]

id still take jordan, there is no way u could go wrong having mj on your team

[bigmike]

why wilt over bill russell?

because he slept with like 25,000 women.

No, actually, he doubled Russel's scoring output as well as matched him in rebounds.

Russell's career line:
http://www.nba.com/history/players/russell_summary.html

Wilt's career line:
http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_summary.html

[bigmike]

id still take jordan, there is no way u could go wrong having mj on your team

Well, you couldn't go wrong with basically any of the people that's been listed so far.

But I'd take Magic.

[preppyak]

id still take jordan, there is no way u could go wrong having mj on your team
if you could pick up like isaiah thomas later on too, you could have a nasty backcourt

because he slept with like 25,000 women.

haha

[Caleb Cattivera]

i'd probably take a young shaq. wilt and russell's #'s are wayyyy more impressive. but i dont think they would dominate the paint in the modern nba like shaq does.

i'd take jordan in the second round.

[YouMadeTheScene]

I had a conversation the other idea and my friend said the only reason Shaq is a great player is his size. Do you think if Shaq didn't weight as much as he does he would be the same player at all?

[weezer182]

john stockton

[somethingyellow]

i'd take jordan in the second round.
haha your crazy

[Ravenna]

Yes and Yes. I'd also like to have a larry bird or another pure shooter on my team.


good, I'm not alone then
For pure shooters, it doesn't get much better than reggie in his prime.

[asianxcore]

mj

[YouMadeTheScene]

For pure shooters, it doesn't get much better than reggie in his prime.

I'd take Bird in his prime over reggie.

[Caleb Cattivera]

I had a conversation the other idea and my friend said the only reason Shaq is a great player is his size. Do you think if Shaq didn't weight as much as he does he would be the same player at all?

interesting question. but, when he came into the leauge he weighed 300, he's put on anywhere from 20 to 30 pounds since then...and in the nba thats alotttt of weight. but even his rookie season at his entry weight, he was dominating. 23 ppg, 14 rpg, and 4 bpg while shooting 56% from the field. and in his second season he got even better averaging 29 ppg, 13 rpg 3 rpg and he shot 60% from the field.

there's a few players in the leauge that are the same size as shaq.

yao is 7'5 300 pounds
eddy curry is 7' 290 pounds
desagna diop is 7' 300 pounds

theres probably other players im leaving out. and there were probably some in the past. but it's not all just his size, he also has to have some talent to be as dominant as he has been. he's commanded the paint like no player in recent memory.

[bigmike]

haha your crazy

MJ wouldn't be in my top 3 picks.

1. Magic
2. Shaq/Wilt
3. Oscar Robertson

[Caleb Cattivera]

haha your crazy

id rather have a center down low, dominating the paint than jordan. there's not another michael jordan...but there's no one more dominant than shaq. i

[somethingyellow]

id rather have a center down low, dominating the paint than jordan. there's not another michael jordan...but there's no one more dominant than shaq. i
i can see your reasoning cuz a dominating center in the nba is rare u just wouldnt get a shot at jordan in the second round cuz somebody would take him in the top 3

[Caleb Cattivera]

i can see your reasoning cuz a dominating center in the nba is rare u just wouldnt get a shot at jordan in the second round cuz somebody would take him in the top 3

then i'd probably pick the big o with my second pick if he was still around. there's alot of idiots in this world that would pick a name over production.

[somethingyellow]

then i'd probably pick the big o with my second pick if he was still around. there's alot of idiots in this world that would pick a name over production.
word

[Spicoli hey bud]

I like this idea..what about an all time starting 5?

[bigmike]

then i'd probably pick the big o with my second pick if he was still around. there's alot of idiots in this world that would pick a name over production.

taking the big o... now you're just taking my ideas.

[Caleb Cattivera]

taking the big o... now you're just taking my ideas.

haha naw. you had to be here a few months ago for earlier discussions. i think o is amazing. one of the best players ever.

[bigmike]

haha naw. you had to be here a few months ago for earlier discussions. i think o is amazing. one of the best players ever.

Right, right.

[bigmike]

I like this idea..what about an all time starting 5?

that's tough.

[LeftWideOpen]

tommy heinsohn - so i could work him till his heart stops and spare the ears of all celtic fans.

the man was a great player and an okay coach .. but he is by far the most annoying announcer ive ever heard.

[Doug]

tommy heinsohn - so i could work him till his heart stops and spare the ears of all celtic fans.

the man was a great player and an okay coach .. but he is by far the most annoying announcer ive ever heard.

no way dude, tommy heinsohn's the man

[Broken Parachute]

There are so many greats. Bill Russell, George Mikan, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, etc. I'd probably trade up for another draft position..then take Stockton and Malone. :D

Well, if I only had one draft pick..I'd select Sam Booey, I mean..Michael Jordan.

[Broken Parachute]

I like this idea..what about an all time starting 5?

I'd probably take Jordan, Bird, Miller (Reggie), Shaq, and Russell..Wilt Chaimberlain (6th Man).

YES, Reggie Miller..you need at least one deep threat, eh? Jordan would drive and dunk on people and take crazy shots..but you need the one outside guy, that's Reggie. Plus, being one of the best Free Throw shooters in NBA History isn't too bad, huh? Shaw because of obvious reasons..the Black Tornado spin move being one. ;)

[LeftWideOpen]

no way dude, tommy heinsohn's the man

he's so bias ..i cant handle it. and its not like he says things like "it looked like pierce might have got bumped when he drove to the basket" ..he says 'OH MY GOD PAUL GOT HAMMERED! THATS HORRIBLE! THAT REF ISNT GETTING ANY TOMMY POINTS!"

I'd like to rip his tongue out so I never have to hear him whine about fouls, refer to good plays as being worth of "tommy points" - named after him of course, or introduce "mini me" ever again.

i feel terrible for gorman since he hasta work with him. i cant even make it through a broadcast without putting it on mute.

[bigmike]

I'd take:
Shaq
Wilt
Bird
The Big O
Magic

[Spicoli hey bud]

Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Jordan, Pistol Pete

[bigmike]

Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Jordan, Pistol Pete

I think Pistol Pete is overrated.

[itsjdiggity]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2003/draft/news/2003/06/26/pistons_milicic_ap/t1_milicic_ap.jpg

[Broken Parachute]

Darkkoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!1

[Spicoli hey bud]

I think Pistol Pete is overrated.
i'd love to see him play point with people today

[bigmike]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2003/draft/news/2003/06/26/pistons_milicic_ap/t1_milicic_ap.jpg

I'm not sold on him being a bust.
I'm sold on him not getting a chance. and besides, he's younger than Lebron and had to move to a new country and culture. We should give him more time.

[bigmike]

i'd love to see him play point with people today

he's more selfish and more of a ball hog than AI is. and that's one hellacious ball hog.
Then again, maybe that means he'd fit in with some of these players now a day (i.e. Kobe)

[Broken Parachute]

I'm not sold on him being a bust.
I'm sold on him not getting a chance. and besides, he's younger than Lebron and had to move to a new country and culture. We should give him more time.

Agreed.

Hasn't he played more this season? Haven't seen many Pistons games.

[itsjdiggity]

I'm not sold on him being a bust.
I'm sold on him not getting a chance. and besides, he's younger than Lebron and had to move to a new country and culture. We should give him more time.

i agree with you there...DARKO NATION WILL WHOO-RIDE

[Caleb Cattivera]

darko needs a chance. he'll get it elsewhere.

pistol pete is way overrated and was a horrible ball hog. his teammates hated him and his coaches hated him, he made everyone around him worse and was hardly on a winning team. the only time he'd pass was either through the legs or behind the back. pistol pete can suck my pistol.

[xearlynovemberx]

For pure shooters, it doesn't get much better than reggie in his prime.

houston also even tho he wasnt as good of a shooter as reggie

[preppyak]

I like this idea..what about an all time starting 5?
C - Wilt Chamberlain
F -Larry Bird
F - Barkley
G - Jordan
G - Stockton

A good combo of shooting and ability. Stockton dishing to anyone is good, and all have game breaking ability. Barkely is their because his sheer tenacity, he would be the glue man for that line-up.

[Ravenna]

houston also even tho he wasnt as good of a shooter as reggie
i don't know if you can say allan houston is one of the best pure shooters. but he probably had the best looking j of all time.

[weezer182]

i don't know if you can say allan houston is one of the best pure shooters. but he probably had the best looking j of all time.i wouldnt go that far

[bigmike]

C - Wilt Chamberlain
F -Larry Bird
F - Barkley
G - Jordan
G - Stockton

A good combo of shooting and ability. Stockton dishing to anyone is good, and all have game breaking ability. Barkely is their because his sheer tenacity, he would be the glue man for that line-up.

I think Barkley's kind of overrated too. he was consistent at coming into camp overweight, out of shape, and running his mouth about how his teammates "lack of committment to winning" bugged him when he couldn't control his gut. He ran his mouth too much for a guy who I wouldn't call "dominate".

[Talib Scottie]

I think Barkley's kind of overrated too. he was consistent at coming into camp overweight, out of shape, and running his mouth about how his teammates "lack of committment to winning" bugged him when he couldn't control his gut. He ran his mouth too much for a guy who I wouldn't call "dominate".
He was dominate on the offensive end and was a really good rebounder for being 6'5". His defense, however, is suspect.

[getupkid53]

I actually would take Magic becuase he has the most rounded game (he feasibly can play all 5 positions) and is one of the best on court leaders in history. Plus he was always a blast to watch.
My all time five: (I'm going with a big lineup).

C - Shaq - Purely a physical dominating presence, there to take high percentage shots and grab boards.
PF - Wilt the stilt - 30 ppg / 23 rpg / 4 1/2 apg / 54 % from the field. The guys a force, he has to be here, even as a PF.
SF - Lebron - He's got size, strength and has been top 15 in the league in every feasible category (except rebounds) the past 3 seasons (including this one). Outside of Jordan and robertson, he has the best rookie numbers in history. He will be great for a long time. 25ppg, 6 1/2 rqg, 6 1/2 apg, 2 spg. Great numbers. I think they will hold up for a long time.
SG - Jordan
PG - Magic

Bench.
Oscar rob. - pg
Bill Russell - C
Tim Duncan - pf
Reggie Miller - sf
Jerry West - sg

[bigmike]

I actually would take Magic becuase he has the most rounded game (he feasibly can play all 5 positions) and is one of the best on court leaders in history. Plus he was always a blast to watch.
My all time five: (I'm going with a big lineup).

C - Shaq - Purely a physical dominating presence, there to take high percentage shots and grab boards.
PF - Wilt the stilt - 30 ppg / 23 rpg / 4 1/2 apg / 54 % from the field. The guys a force, he has to be here, even as a PF.
SF - Lebron - He's got size, strength and has been top 15 in the league in every feasible category (except rebounds) the past 3 seasons (including this one). Outside of Jordan and robertson, he has the best rookie numbers in history. He will be great for a long time. 25ppg, 6 1/2 rqg, 6 1/2 apg, 2 spg. Great numbers. I think they will hold up for a long time.
SG - Jordan
PG - Magic

Bench.
Oscar rob. - pg
Bill Russell - C
Tim Duncan - pf
Reggie Miller - sf
Jerry West - sg


I'm not taking Lebron right now in a hypothetical draft involving the league's greatest players.

[Scott Weber]

Uh, Jordan with the number 1 pick. I will argue this to the death. Chamberlin and Russel were so dominant because they were so much taller and more athletic than their opponents. In today's game Wilt would NEVER average 50 a game. Not only is Jordan a fantastic all around player, he's a leader with a killer instinct - the reason he won 6 rings.

[somethingyellow]

Uh, Jordan with the number 1 pick. I will argue this to the death. Chamberlin and Russel were so dominant because they were so much taller and more athletic than their opponents. In today's game Wilt would NEVER average 50 a game. Not only is Jordan a fantastic all around player, he's a leader with a killer instinct - the reason he won 6 rings.
thank you scott, definately my number one pick too

[weezer182]

Uh, Jordan with the number 1 pick. I will argue this to the death. Chamberlin and Russel were so dominant because they were so much taller and more athletic than their opponents. In today's game Wilt would NEVER average 50 a game. Not only is Jordan a fantastic all around player, he's a leader with a killer instinct - the reason he won 6 rings.i have to agree with that

[weezer182]

I think Barkley's kind of overrated too. he was consistent at coming into camp overweight, out of shape, and running his mouth about how his teammates "lack of committment to winning" bugged him when he couldn't control his gut. He ran his mouth too much for a guy who I wouldn't call "dominate".id take the mailman over barkley

[bigmike]

Uh, Jordan with the number 1 pick. I will argue this to the death. Chamberlin and Russel were so dominant because they were so much taller and more athletic than their opponents. In today's game Wilt would NEVER average 50 a game. Not only is Jordan a fantastic all around player, he's a leader with a killer instinct - the reason he won 6 rings.

You can't be wrong with that pick. He was the most competitive player in NBA history. However, Magic could play any position and play them way above average. He was a better passer, bigger, and I think a better on the court leader. Michael is probably the best player ever, but Magic got everyone else involved a lot more.

Sure, Wilt wouldn't ever average 50 per game playing today. But, no one will ever average that in the NBA ever again. But there's no reason why Russel or Wilt wouldn't average 25 pts, 12 boards a game. And those numbers would put them up there with uper-tier centers in todays game.

[somethingyellow]

You can't be wrong with that pick. He was the most competitive player in NBA history. However, Magic could play any position and play them way above average. He was a better passer, bigger, and I think a better on the court leader. Michael is probably the best player ever, but Magic got everyone else involved a lot more.

jordan was a better defender and scorer then magic

[bigmike]

id take the mailman over barkley

I'd take Kevin McHale over barkley and the mailman any day of the week.
I think McHale's easily a top 3 NBA power forward of all time -- ahead of karl malone.

[bigmike]

jordan was a better defender and scorer then magic

I can get defenders and scorers.

I can't get a point guard to pay center in a pivitol NBA title game and put up 42 pts, 15 boards, 7 assists, and 3 steals. All as a rookie in his first NBA finals experience.

[weezer182]

I'd take Kevin McHale over barkley and the mailman any day of the week.
I think McHale's easily a top 3 NBA power forward of all time -- ahead of karl malone.in my opinion id rather have malone

[Scott Weber]

You can't be wrong with that pick. He was the most competitive player in NBA history. However, Magic could play any position and play them way above average. He was a better passer, bigger, and I think a better on the court leader. Michael is probably the best player ever, but Magic got everyone else involved a lot more.

Sure, Wilt wouldn't ever average 50 per game playing today. But, no one will ever average that in the NBA ever again. But there's no reason why Russel or Wilt wouldn't average 25 pts, 12 boards a game. And those numbers would put them up there with uper-tier centers in todays game.
Sure, upper teir, but worth wasting your first pick on? No.

This whole "magic can play any posistion" argument seems dumb to me...if you were to draft him first, he would play point. Why wouldn't you play your best player at the posistion he excels the most at? Jordan was a better scorer and a better defender than Magic, and part of the reason Magic was so good was the Laker uptempo style of play. Build a team around him without his counterparts and he's nowhere near as effective. Btw, nobody is a better leader than Jordan. Just because Magic played point doesn't mean he was a better leader than Jordan.

[Talib Scottie]

McHale passed the ball maybe twice in his NBA career. Malone is a better team player. I think I'd still like Mchale more though

[bigmike]

in my opinion id rather have malone

you can have him. he was consistently choking in big games, missing key free throws, and taking bad shots. He'd always settle for fade away baseline jumpers instead of using his strength inside where power forwards should be. and defensively he couldn't guard PF's that could shoot a mid range jumper, as his defense was predicated on his ability to push you off the low post. He owes half of his career to John Stockton.

Mchale was part of probably the most dominant front court in nba history. he was a decent enough of a passer to get by and had 10 times the amount of moves down low than Karl Malone. he'd could drop step, fade away, spin, etc. He was a better offensive rebounder and had long arms which made him a better defender than malone.

[bigmike]

McHale passed the ball maybe twice in his NBA career. Malone is a better team player. I think I'd still like Mchale more though

because his assist total is gaudy, doesn't mean he didn't have passing ability.

[itsjdiggity]

McHale passed the ball maybe twice in his NBA career. Malone is a better team player. I think I'd still like Mchale more though

He's also a better wrestler.
http://www.utball.com/photos/malone/malonewrestle.jpg

[itsjdiggity]

haha...i think so

[itsjdiggity]

http://www.boardhell.de/gimmicks/gim006-a.jpg

[itsjdiggity]

apparently hogan and rodman vs jay leno and karl malone screams out purchase me

[bigmike]

Sure, upper teir, but worth wasting your first pick on? No.

This whole "magic can play any posistion" argument seems dumb to me...if you were to draft him first, he would play point. Why wouldn't you play your best player at the posistion he excels the most at? Jordan was a better scorer and a better defender than Magic, and part of the reason Magic was so good was the Laker uptempo style of play. Build a team around him without his counterparts and he's nowhere near as effective. Btw, nobody is a better leader than Jordan. Just because Magic played point doesn't mean he was a better leader than Jordan.

It wasn't just the Lakers that played an uptempo style, it was the style of play. You can't fault him for thriving in a good situation. I honestly think he'd been nearly as good in most anywhere in the league in the 80s.

I'll take the guy that revolutionalized the game throughout the 80s. He could back down every opposing guards and some small forwards or take them off the dribble and was a better shooter than people remember. he did shoot 52% from the field in his career. He was a better rebounder and passer as well, than jordan.
He could play with anyone where as MJ was most effective in scoring where as magic was effective in passing, rebounding, and he was an above average defender. As good of a defender as MJ? no.

but really, you can't go wrong with either. I'd be willing to bet for most people it'd be Jordan/Magic 1/2 in anyone's dream draft.

[weezer182]

you can have him. he was consistently choking in big games, missing key free throws, and taking bad shots. He'd always settle for fade away baseline jumpers instead of using his strength inside where power forwards should be. and defensively he couldn't guard PF's that could shoot a mid range jumper, as his defense was predicated on his ability to push you off the low post. He owes half of his career to John Stockton.

Mchale was part of probably the most dominant front court in nba history. he was a decent enough of a passer to get by and had 10 times the amount of moves down low than Karl Malone. he'd could drop step, fade away, spin, etc. He was a better offensive rebounder and had long arms which made him a better defender than malone.the way your argument looks you make malone out to be a horrible big man that cant do anything. the stats prove different. its not all about stats either. mchale played with better players too. also stockton helped his game a lot thats true but malone was still the number one option on the team. its not like malone caught the ball from stockton for a layup everytime. malone was usually on an under talented jazz club. he didnt have the front court mchale had not to mention mchale played with larry bird. in fact he never played with a great big man in utah. you couldnt afford to double mchale where as malone got double teamed a lot. and as far as post moves....malone could take it outside as well.

[bigmike]

He's also a better wrestler.
http://www.utball.com/photos/malone/malonewrestle.jpg

haha, oh man, i forgot about that.

[bigmike]

the way your argument looks you make malone out to be a horrible big man that cant do anything. the stats prove different. its not all about stats either. mchale played with better players too. also stockton helped his game a lot thats true but malone was still the number one option on the team. its not like malone caught the ball from stockton for a layup everytime. malone was usually on an under talented jazz club. he didnt have the front court mchale had not to mention mchale played with larry bird. in fact he never played with a great big man in utah. you couldnt afford to double mchale where as malone got double teamed a lot. and as far as post moves....malone could take it outside as well.

Malone is all time good. But i wouldn't say he's more than the 5th or 4th best PF all time, where as McHale was, in my opinion, a top 3 PF all time.

I'm not saying that Malone was a bum, but I don't think he's the best of all time.

[bigmike]

Karl Malone was the whitest player the Utah Jazz had. That's saying a lot when Greg Ostertag, Jeff Hornacek, and John Stockton play on your teams.

haha.

[weezer182]

Malone is all time good. But i wouldn't say he's more than the 5th or 4th best PF all time, where as McHale was, in my opinion, a top 3 PF all time.

I'm not saying that Malone was a bum, but I don't think he's the best of all time.how is the second all-time leading scorer in nba history the 4th or 5th best player at his position?

[bigmike]

how is the second all-time leading scorer in nba history the 4th or 5th best player at his position?

you can have him. he was consistently choking in big games, missing key free throws, and taking bad shots. He'd always settle for fade away baseline jumpers instead of using his strength inside where power forwards should be. and defensively he couldn't guard PF's that could shoot a mid range jumper, as his defense was predicated on his ability to push you off the low post. He owes half of his career to John Stockton.

Mchale was part of probably the most dominant front court in nba history. he was a decent enough of a passer to get by and had 10 times the amount of moves down low than Karl Malone. he'd could drop step, fade away, spin, etc. He was a better offensive rebounder and had long arms which made him a better defender than malone.

because Mchale was a better all around PF.

[weezer182]

because Mchale was a better all around PF......ok that doesnt answer my question . once again who are these 4 or 5 players that are better then him?

[bigmike]

.....ok that doesnt answer my question . once again who are these 4 or 5 players that are better then him?

1. Kevin McHale
2. Bob Pettit
3. Tim Duncan
4. Karl Malone/Dave DeBusschere
5. Dave DeBusschere/Karl Malone

[weezer182]

1. Kevin McHale
2. Bob Pettit
3. Tim Duncan
4. Karl Malone/Dave DeBusschere
5. Dave DeBusschere/Karl Malone first off you criticized malone's game so much about his "inconsistency", free throw ect.... when you havent even seen bob pettit and dave bebusschere play.mchale won his last championship the year you were born. sure you might see highlights but you are probably basing them on stats and if you want to do that then you should just compare their stats. you criticize malones game so much when you havent really seen these other players play besides duncan.

[bigmike]

first off you criticized malone's game so much about his "inconsistency", free throw ect.... when you havent even seen bob pettit and dave bebusschere play.mchale won his last championship the year you were born. sure you might see highlights but you are probably basing them on stats and if you want to do that then you should just compare their stats. you criticize malones game so much when you havent really seen these other players play besides duncan.

Bob pettit and dave debusschere isn't all based on stats, but also old footage my uncle and grandfather have of them. It's not like i've looked a stat sheet only. I've seen footage of each guy play, maybe not pettit or debusschere so much, so that will, admittedly, shoot down the validity of my argument in peoples eyes.

but even if you want to talk about the best PF's of the last 20 years malone would still be 3rd.

and was I wrong about malone being inconsistent, mising key free throws and being a decent defender?

[Scott Weber]

It wasn't just the Lakers that played an uptempo style, it was the style of play. You can't fault him for thriving in a good situation. I honestly think he'd been nearly as good in most anywhere in the league in the 80s.

I'll take the guy that revolutionalized the game throughout the 80s. He could back down every opposing guards and some small forwards or take them off the dribble and was a better shooter than people remember. he did shoot 52% from the field in his career. He was a better rebounder and passer as well, than jordan.
He could play with anyone where as MJ was most effective in scoring where as magic was effective in passing, rebounding, and he was an above average defender. As good of a defender as MJ? no.

but really, you can't go wrong with either. I'd be willing to bet for most people it'd be Jordan/Magic 1/2 in anyone's dream draft.
How familiar are you with late 80's/early 90's bball? I'm assuming not a lot, because otherwise you wouldn't have said something as ignorant as that first statement. The Lakers used to overinflate their baskektballs to 10-12 pounds so that the ball bounced higher, only allowing them to run past teams. You think the Pistons were playing run and gun basketball at that time? The Lakers are widely known as the fast paced run&gun team of the late 80s. Magic was a better passer than Jordan because he played a different posistion. Jordan still averaged 6 assists a game while in his prime while being the most prolific scorer in NBA history, as well as 6-8 boards. Your rebounding and passing stats are fucking retarded because Magic played PG and he was 3 inches taller than Jordan. If you even look at the stats, in the prime (after the first 3 years) of both of their careers, their rebounding numbers are virtually identical...there are 2 seasons that boost Magic's career averages but are nowhere near a representation of how good a rebounder he was his entire career. Take away Jordan's 2 years with the Wizards and he's shooting well over 50% for his career as well, and Magic's career numbers wouldn't be so high if he didn't get AIDS and retire early (not to be insensative, but true).

I'm just saying, you're not even looking into the stats. Sure, Magic was a "better passer" who played the POINT, on a team that scored like 130 points a game, and I could fire back about the ridiculous amount of turnovers Magic had (4.2 a game.....wow), but I won't, because I know that's a result of the team/style he was on, just like his assist numbers. Bottom line - for most people it wouldn't be 1/2 magic/Jordan - it'd be nowhere near that. (asuming these people know basketball).

(don't take anything personal, just having a fun sports debate ;))

[bigmike]

How familiar are you with late 80's/early 90's bball? I'm assuming not a lot, because otherwise you wouldn't have said something as ignorant as that first statement. The Lakers used to overinflate their baskektballs to 10-12 pounds so that the ball bounced higher, only allowing them to run past teams. You think the Pistons were playing run and gun basketball at that time? The Lakers are widely known as the fast paced run&gun team of the late 80s. Magic was a better passer than Jordan because he played a different posistion. Jordan still averaged 6 assists a game while in his prime while being the most prolific scorer in NBA history, as well as 6-8 boards. Your rebounding and passing stats are fucking retarded because Magic played PG and he was 3 inches taller than Jordan. If you even look at the stats, in the prime (after the first 3 years) of both of their careers, their rebounding numbers are virtually identical...there are 2 seasons that boost Magic's career averages but are nowhere near a representation of how good a rebounder he was his entire career. Take away Jordan's 2 years with the Wizards and he's shooting well over 50% for his career as well, and Magic's career numbers wouldn't be so high if he didn't get AIDS and retire early (not to be insensative, but true).

I'm just saying, you're not even looking into the stats. Sure, Magic was a "better passer" who played the POINT, on a team that scored like 130 points a game, and I could fire back about the ridiculous amount of turnovers Magic had (4.2 a game.....wow), but I won't, because I know that's a result of the team/style he was on, just like his assist numbers. Bottom line - for most people it wouldn't be 1/2 magic/Jordan - it'd be nowhere near that. (asuming these people know basketball).

(don't take anything personal, just having a fun sports debate ;))

haha. it's never personal. and i'll be the first to say it, "ooooh owned."
maybe i got a little cocky.

[itsjdiggity]

The Lakers used to overinflate their baskektballs to 10-12 pounds so that the ball bounced higher, only allowing them to run past teams.

Is that true? Wouldn't that be illegal?

[Spicoli hey bud]

I'm just saying, you're not even looking into the stats. Sure, Magic was a "better passer" who played the POINT, on a team that scored like 130 points a game, and I could fire back about the ridiculous amount of turnovers Magic had (4.2 a game.....wow), but I won't, because I know that's a result of the team/style he was on, just like his assist numbers. Bottom line - for most people it wouldn't be 1/2 magic/Jordan - it'd be nowhere near that. (asuming these people know basketball).

(don't take anything personal, just having a fun sports debate ;))
4.2 turnovers a game is HORRIBLE. You talk about stats that you just brush off and say, "ok well he makes up for it), but 4.2 turnovers per game is just plain terrible. I'd love to see how many turnovers Oscar Robertson had a game.

[weezer182]

Bob pettit and dave debusschere isn't all based on stats, but also old footage my uncle and grandfather have of them. It's not like i've looked a stat sheet only. I've seen footage of each guy play, maybe not pettit or debusschere so much, so that will, admittedly, shoot down the validity of my argument in peoples eyes.

but even if you want to talk about the best PF's of the last 20 years malone would still be 3rd.

and was I wrong about malone being inconsistent, mising key free throws and being a decent defender?all im saying is to criticize his game that much without watching the others play, other then duncan, isnt a fair argument. a lot of "footage" on these guys are going to only show good plays. to really get a grasp at how they play you need to watch them fairly often...not just only footage. as far being inconsistent i disagree. at his prime he lead the jazz always into the playoffs with really no other good big man on that team. i think he was a pretty good defender. not great but not bad at all. sure he had a harder time defending on the perminater but so did a lot of pfs. he was pretty good on the post. its not like other teams gave the ball to their power foward because malone was a bad defender. malone wasnt great at free throws but he is still better then someone like duncan. duncan has missed some pretty key three throws in his career already.there are a lot of great big men that arent great free throw shooters. its all opinion

[Caleb Cattivera]

bigmike's got the foxsports all time overrated and underrated players list in front of him i think:)

i'm not sure where malone falls in there. but duncan is top five of players in recent memory easily. not just based on stats, but also on his accomplishments and awards...and id probably put him ahead of malone...even if he's just in his 8th season. rookie of the year, three finals mvps awards, one all star mvp and two regular season mvps. he's been first team all nba EVERY year he's been in the leauge. all defensive team every year in the leauge, six times first team...twice second team. he could retire right now and be a hall of famer...i would put him ahead of malone on all time pf's.

[ThriftWhore]

I'm not sold on him being a bust.
I'm sold on him not getting a chance. and besides, he's younger than Lebron and had to move to a new country and culture. We should give him more time.
the true bust: detroit picking him instead of carmelo.

[itsjdiggity]

the true bust: detroit picking him instead of wade.

fixed.

[bigmike]

the true bust: detroit picking him instead of carmelo and wade.

no, now it's fixed.

[BuriedAlive]

I'd take Oscar Robertson. Triple-double... that's right.

[BuriedAlive]

fixed.
I agree Wade owns

[itsjdiggity]

Darko > Carmelo

fuck carmelo

[Talib Scottie]

"I'm telling you, Darko is a Serbian gangster," Rasheed Wallace said. "Darko's got some bodies back there (in Serbia-Montenegro). He can go psycho on guys."

[itsjdiggity]

Mark Madsen: 2 Rings
Darko: 1 Ring
Carmelo: No Ring
Karl Malone: No Ring
http://www.nbalive.org/05cover.jpg

[Talib Scottie]

Randy Brown: 3 rings.

[bigmike]

Would anyone believe that my first ever thread I created on this website was NBA-related?

[Broken Parachute]

Haha, never could have guessed that.

[Spicoli hey bud]

Shaq, Wilt, Russell, Jordan, Pistol Pete
Idiot.