MPA Are you serious?

[FScott]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4508158.stm


...MPA president Lauren Keiser said he wanted site owners to be jailed.
He said unlicensed guitar tabs and song scores were widely available on the internet but were "completely illegal". Mr Keiser said he did not just want to shut websites and impose fines, saying if authorities can "throw in some jail time I think we'll be a little more effective".

(Most people could say this doesn't belong in the Politics forumm but its the only place I really go)

[Lueda Alia]

What if the musicians don't have a problem with these sites?

[aminorthreat55]

I have one potential problem with this but unfortunately I'm not quite sure if it's valid or not. There is generally a disclaimer on all websites that represents the posted lyrics and tabulature as the interpretation of the given work by the person who submitted or posted it. And I'm no expert on the specifics of the U.S. copyright code, but I think this may allow for a potential hole in these claims.

Title 17, section 506(a) of the United States Code states,
Any person who infringes a copyright willfully either:
1) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, or
2) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies of phonorecords, of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000, shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, United States Code.

Now, I don't see how the commercial advantage could pertain to these accusations. And I don't think the private financial gain works either, although it could possibly be inferred that the posting of tabs creates web traffic, which raises the value of the advertising revenue these sites get. As for the second part, this is clearly not infringment on copies of phonorecords. There is clearly reproduction and/or distribution of copyrighted works, yet the works in question and the posted versions are not necessarily reproduction, based on what I said above. The only problem in this case is that only some of the copyrighted works have a total retail value of more than $1,000. Of course the published lyrics and music of say, U2, has a total retail value of greater than $1,000. But I'm certain this wouldn't be the case for independent artists or even smaller major-label artists. I'm not sure that this part works though because they are posted as a person's representation, not necessarily the direct copyrighted work.

Anyone have anything else they could add to this? I'm sort of just spitballing.

[VinnyVegas]

Are they going to jail people who have memorized the tabs? Are they going to jail people who decide to teach memorized tabs to others? Bullshit...

[youcomebeforeyo]

This makes me so fucking angry.

The music industry is trying to shut down everything that has breathed life into the indie scene. File sharing, lyrics and tabs. If we get rid of this what alternative scene is there?

Why don't they look at Victory Records, sure to most users here it's an average label. But it's marketing something different from the mainstream and growing (20 years consecutively infact).

Had I never had tabs I would have never learnt the songs I loved and I potentially would have given up on guitar. Tabs play such an instrumental role in a young musicians life, I can assure you 90% of guitarists cannot pick out a song by simply listening to it after only 6 months of playing an instrument.

I hope the artists on the labels represented by the MPA boycott their labels until this campaign is dropped.

[calebus]

This is on of those things that really makes you sad for society today

Even if they do it, it wont stop anyone. It will be exactly like the file sharing: they will take out all the largert tab sites and in their place 50 smaller ones will spring up. Get over it no one is going to pay $20 for your crappy sheet music. Without tabs we probrably wouldnt have half the artist that are out there right now. We are a tab generation.

[underthetalking]

I have one potential problem with this but unfortunately I'm not quite sure if it's valid or not. There is generally a disclaimer on all websites that represents the posted lyrics and tabulature as the interpretation of the given work by the person who submitted or posted it. And I'm no expert on the specifics of the U.S. copyright code, but I think this may allow for a potential hole in these claims.

Title 17, section 506(a) of the United States Code states,
Any person who infringes a copyright willfully either:
1) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, or
2) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies of phonorecords, of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000, shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, United States Code.

Now, I don't see how the commercial advantage could pertain to these accusations. And I don't think the private financial gain works either, although it could possibly be inferred that the posting of tabs creates web traffic, which raises the value of the advertising revenue these sites get. As for the second part, this is clearly not infringment on copies of phonorecords. There is clearly reproduction and/or distribution of copyrighted works, yet the works in question and the posted versions are not necessarily reproduction, based on what I said above. The only problem in this case is that only some of the copyrighted works have a total retail value of more than $1,000. Of course the published lyrics and music of say, U2, has a total retail value of greater than $1,000. But I'm certain this wouldn't be the case for independent artists or even smaller major-label artists. I'm not sure that this part works though because they are posted as a person's representation, not necessarily the direct copyrighted work.

Anyone have anything else they could add to this? I'm sort of just spitballing.

That is actually a very valid point and a good argument. What the MPAA is doing is such a bullshit move.

[yeat182]

I have one potential problem with this but unfortunately I'm not quite sure if it's valid or not. There is generally a disclaimer on all websites that represents the posted lyrics and tabulature as the interpretation of the given work by the person who submitted or posted it. And I'm no expert on the specifics of the U.S. copyright code, but I think this may allow for a potential hole in these claims.

Title 17, section 506(a) of the United States Code states,
Any person who infringes a copyright willfully either:
1) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, or
2) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies of phonorecords, of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000, shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, United States Code.

Now, I don't see how the commercial advantage could pertain to these accusations. And I don't think the private financial gain works either, although it could possibly be inferred that the posting of tabs creates web traffic, which raises the value of the advertising revenue these sites get. As for the second part, this is clearly not infringment on copies of phonorecords. There is clearly reproduction and/or distribution of copyrighted works, yet the works in question and the posted versions are not necessarily reproduction, based on what I said above. The only problem in this case is that only some of the copyrighted works have a total retail value of more than $1,000. Of course the published lyrics and music of say, U2, has a total retail value of greater than $1,000. But I'm certain this wouldn't be the case for independent artists or even smaller major-label artists. I'm not sure that this part works though because they are posted as a person's representation, not necessarily the direct copyrighted work.

Anyone have anything else they could add to this? I'm sort of just spitballing.


there is a private finacial gain in that the websites sell adveriting on their sites because they know people want tabs, its indirect but its there. the problem i have is that these tabs aren't 100% accurate to begin with (neither are most of the lyrics) and you can find tabs for the same song written in 5 different keys with 5 different tunings, now only one of those can be copyrighted, so how do you decided which is which. If that is the case, you should legally be able to write a tab in a different key. finally, most of the tabs that people use (look at the most popular tabs on say, mxtabs.net) are by bands that don't sell their sheet music, so you can't "steal" something that isn't on the market. Also, they aren't going to be able to stop it because all you need to do is sit down with the guitar/piano/drums/whatever and figure out a song for yourself and email it to someone that is interested and you can't ever stop someone from figureing out how to play a song. The MPA should be jailed, not the tab sites.

[yeat182]

also, i would LOVE to see someone who works for this site either take a poll of bands that are friendly with AP.net or interview some of them and see how THEY feel about this.

[CorporateFish]

also, i would LOVE to see someone who works for this site either take a poll of bands that are friendly with AP.net or interview some of them and see how THEY feel about this.
agreed

[aminorthreat55]

That is actually a very valid point and a good argument. What the MPAA is doing is such a bullshit move.
Just FYI, I kept making this mistake earlier, MPAA = movie industry assocation, MPA = music publishers.

[sweethypocrisy]

*points at sig*