Is Tiki The Best?

[YouMadeTheScene]

Alright now don't throw stones and write this off so early. And if you are going to be uncivil and be ridiculous don't bother posting. I'd just like to hear people's opinions.

Now I know that some of the arguments people will bring up that it has only been the past 2 or 3 years and so on, but I am talking about the best RB in the NFL right now.

Now in the mind of the majority of most NFL fans is the best RBs in the NFL are Barber, LT, and Shaun Alexander. First I'm going to make my argument to why I think tiki is better then Alexander.

Shaun Alexander is a fine RB. He is a straight forward runner who has deceiving speed and is very strong. But the two thing he doesn't do so well is Block and Catch the ball. Another thing you'll find is Shaun Alexander isn't successful if he doesn't have more then 22-21 carries in a game. Tiki has had a couple of games where he has been able to put up around 80-90 yards and a couple of TDs with less than 22 Carries. Also lets take a look at the teams that Shaun Alexander has had his best games against this year.

Atlanta
Arizona
Houston
Seattle
San Fran
Tennessee

That isn't the greatest competition defensively outside of Atlanta at the beginning of the season, but they have trailed off. Shaun Alexander is a great RB but I don't think he as a complete of a player as Tiki Barber is.

Now for me this is much tougher of a battle and I think it really could go both ways but if I wanted one I would take Tiki against LT and here is why. And I'll go through a checklist

Running The Ball: Tiki wins this. Look at the Stats he has ran the ball better over the past 2 years.
Receiving: LT. May go down as best receiving RB of all time. Could play WR.
Blocking: Even. They are both great blockers

And my last one on my checklist I'll get slack for but it's what I feel and how the stats show.

Consistency: Tiki. He is averaging .7 more yards a carry and there have been games this year when LT has just been shut down.

Now to prove my point i'm going to look at Stats from this year and what the 3 averaged per game against teams they all have played.

Tiki: 24.2 Carries 124 yards .2 Touchdowns
Shaun: 20 Carries 69.3 yards and 1 Touchdown
LT: 20.3 Carries 87 Yards and 1.3 Touchdowns

Tiki has put up much better yardage but has less touchdowns which could be contributed to Brandon Jacobs being put in on close situations and Tom Coughlin's insistence on passing in the Red Zone.

Also the one thing that I think you can point out the most is the Offensive Line. LT and Alexander have much much much better O-Lines then a Giants group that have little to no experience together.

So what do you guys think? Is he better? And if Not where does he rank?

[still_life]

Larry Johnson is right now the best running back in the NFL.

[mikeford]

Tomlinson catches the ball batter than Tiki.

Tomlinson is the best player in the NFL

[YouMadeTheScene]

Tomlinson catches the ball batter than Tiki.

Tomlinson is the best player in the NFL

I said he did. What argument is that?

[Doug]

i still think it's
1. LT
2. SA
3. Tiki

[mat1419]

Larry Johnson is right now the best running back in the NFL.
if you include his stellar line then that would appear right, but for what he's doing with who he's doing it with it's either LT or Tiki

also, if you watch a cheifs game you'll see Larry Johnson "miss" some blocks...he's got a lot of growing up to do before he's in their league as a full package back

[still_life]

The line is stellar, but just watch the guy, he's dominating the best defenses against the run every week. Can't wait to see him go up against the #1 rushing defense this week.

[getupkid53]

Larry johnson is a very subpar blocker. Other than that, he is a phenom. I like Shaun over Tiki, but Tiki's put up like 1600 yds this season already. Really impressive.

[still_life]

LJ doesn't have a lot of experience. His blocking will get better in time. He's a pretty good receiver too.

[mat1419]

LJ doesn't have a lot of experience. His blocking will get better in time. He's a pretty good receiver too.
it's partially that, it's a lack of effort too. even coming out of college that was his knock, how selfish and immature he was. i am excited though, if vermeil is back, and roaf and the bulk of that line, what kind of numbers he can put up in a 16 game season. I'd say record breaking would almost be likely.

[still_life]

He probably could be in the 2000 yard club with a full season as a starter.

[mikeford]

i think jerome bennis is the bestest.

[Doug]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/cloochier/nflauto.jpg

http://ar.news.yahoo.com/050701/ap/inr30507020049.barber_peres_nr305.j pg


as you can see, shaun alexander and tiki barber are the same person anyway, so this argument is pointless

[Jesse2]

i think willis mcgahee already answered this question for all of us.

[weezer182]

LT is better

[mikeford]

i think willis mcgahee already answered this question for all of us.





http://www.b9board.com/images/smiles/073.gif

[Caleb Cattivera]

i think jerome bennis is the bestest.

hahaha mannn bennis destroyeded the bearsss's

[still_life]

"they all look alike"

[Jesse2]

http://www.b9board.com/images/smiles/073.gif

haha how can you diss the self-proclaimed best back in the nfl??

i don't think there's a right answer to this question though, you can make a solid case for all 4 RBs mentioned here.

[mikeford]

haha how can you diss the self-proclaimed best back in the nfl??

i don't think there's a right answer to this question though, you can make a solid case for all 4 RBs mentioned here.

uh for starters, hes on the bills....

[Jesse2]

uh for starters, hes on the bills....

maybe i should have mentioned a couple posts ago that i was joking.

i thought it would be terribly obvious.

[justinevans]

funny, i talked about this last night at the bar with a giants fan, as you can tell i am an eagles fan. This is what we decided:

LT, Shaun Alexander, Larry Johnson, Edge, Tiki Barber/Warrick Dunn, Portis, Martin, Deuce, Rudi Johnson, Dominick Davis, Brian Westbrook, Thomas Jones, McGahee

[selftitled85]

tiki is prob the best underrated back in the nfl. i find tiki to be better overal then sa i find lt to be better. when you play the chargers you first play to stop lt then you worry about brees and gates. in ny its the other way around. you work to stop plax, shockey, eli, and amani then tiki comes up. when it comes to blocking though, i dont think there is a better blocking backer in the league then barber. he is straight nasty.

[justinevans]

tiki is prob the best underrated back in the nfl. i find tiki to be better overal then sa i find lt to be better. when you play the chargers you first play to stop lt then you worry about brees and gates. in ny its the other way around. you work to stop plax, shockey, eli, and amani then tiki comes up. when it comes to blocking though, i dont think there is a better blocking backer in the league then barber. he is straight nasty.

Greg Jones? that man is a beast.

I think teams want to stop tiki and make eli throw, which eli tends to fail at against good teams, especially when he is on the road.

[Web250]

Tiki is definately the most underrated RB in the NFL.

I also think he is the best.
He has topped his career-best season of 2004, with an even better 2005, and they still have to play 2 games.

[justinevans]

And this really doesn't matter because next year God is going to be in the NFL.

[justinevans]

Tiki is definately the most underrated RB in the NFL.

I also think he is the best.
He has topped his career-best season of 2004, with an even better 2005, and they still have to play 2 games.

Alot of Tiki's yards come in the 4th quarter when they are winning. He usually breaks a big run to put him over 100 yds. Last weeks game was just sick though.

[Doug]

funny, i talked about this last night at the bar with a giants fan, as you can tell i am an eagles fan. This is what we decided:

LT, Shaun Alexander, Larry Johnson, Edge, Tiki Barber/Warrick Dunn, Portis, Martin, Deuce, Rudi Johnson, Dominick Davis, Brian Westbrook, Thomas Jones, McGahee

i'd say

1. LT
2. SA
3. Tiki
4. LJ
5. Edge
6. Dunn
7. Portis
8. Deuce
9. Davis
10. Willis
11. Curtis
12. Rudi
13. Thomas Jones
with a lot of other running backs including dillon, cadillac, etc. over westbrook.

[still_life]

Rudi is better than Willis

[brodudeman123]

Just curious to see some responces, who comes to mind for the best at breaking tackles?

[justinevans]

i'd say

1. LT
2. SA
3. Tiki
4. LJ
5. Edge
6. Dunn
7. Portis
8. Deuce
9. Davis
10. Willis
11. Curtis
12. Rudi
13. Thomas Jones
with a lot of other running backs including dillon, cadillac, etc. over westbrook.

i can't believe we forgot dillon

[Doug]

Rudi is better than Willis

ehhhhhhhh, i'm gonna need some sort of backing argument

[justinevans]

LT, Shaun Alexander, Larry Johnson, Edge, Tiki Barber/Warrick Dunn, Portis, Martin, Deuce, Rudi Johnson, Dillon, Dominick Davis, Brian Westbrook, Thomas Jones, McGahee, Cadillac

I have Westbrook higher, because he is good in the open field. It is really hard to judge how good of a actual running, running back he is because he does not get alot of carries. In games where he gets over 20 carries a game, he goes over 100 yds.

[lesto17]

In your argument you said that Tiki is a better runner than LT. If you just watch the two run you would know that is far from true. LT is faster than tiki and can change direction like no one else in the NFL right now. Tiki is good though, top five definitely.


I pretty much agree with Doug's list, but I might put Portis above Dunn.

[selftitled85]

Just curious to see some responces, who comes to mind for the best at breaking tackles?

tomlinson is the best now...sanders was one of the best ever. tiki has good break tackle skills but nowhere near lt or barry.

[mikeford]

warrick dunn is mad underrated in the NFL... he'd shine on a team with a better O-line

[still_life]

ehhhhhhhh, i'm gonna need some sort of backing argument

Don't need much. McGahee is overrated.

Rudi: 2800+ yards rushing, 25 total TDs in the last two seasons, 4.2 ypc career average, 13 100 yard rushing games
Willis: 2200+ yards rushing, 18 total TDs in the last two seasons, 3.9 ypc career average, 11 100 yard rushing games

[Jesse2]

Don't need much. McGahee is overrated.

Rudi: 2800+ yards rushing, 25 total TDs in the last two seasons, 4.2 ypc career average, 13 100 yard rushing games
Willis: 2200+ yards rushing, 18 total TDs in the last two seasons, 3.9 ypc career average, 11 100 yard rushing games

mark it down... Monday December 19th 2005....

I agree with you. however, I think McGahee is overrated based on his own claims, he's rarely talked about by other people. The way to stop Willis is to put someone from the d-line in his way, and just let willis run into him and fall down.

he doesn't seem to care enough to try and be a good back.

[Scott Weber]

Neither Shaun nor Tiki gets the full respect they deserve. LT is an incredible back, he's so explosive. I think that LT is the most dangerous, Tiki is the most versatile, and Shaun is the most reliable and consistent. Part of that is because Shaun does avoid smashing forward at times, he's always healthy. It's hard to choose who's the best because they all contribute in different ways to their teams.

[YouMadeTheScene]

In your argument you said that Tiki is a better runner than LT. If you just watch the two run you would know that is far from true. LT is faster than tiki and can change direction like no one else in the NFL right now. Tiki is good though, top five definitely.


I pretty much agree with Doug's list, but I might put Portis above Dunn.

I do watch LT play and Tiki. I TiVO about 4 or 5 NFL games a week outside the Giants and Jets usually it is the Bengals, Colts, Chargers, Seahawks, KC, and Chicago. And still I think Tiki is the better runner. Stats say one thing, and if you watch Tiki he is very evasive and on top of that LT isn't much faster. Tiki I think is better at breaking tackles. This is just based on my opinion from watching both of them a ton.


1. Tiki/LT (I really can't decide)
3. Alexander
4. Edge
5. Deuce
6. Dunn
7. Portis
8. LJ (I'm sorry he has not started that many games and when McGahee was sharing time and got time over Henry he looked great too. It's too early to tell)
9. Rudi Johnson
10. Willis
11. Curtis
12. Thomas Jones
13. Dillon

But I sort of retract what I said. I really can't decide who is better LT or Tiki. I mean a lot of the things I looked at tell me a lot but I still can't really decide who is better. I still think Tiki is better then SA but not by much.

And someone said that teams gameplan to the Giants passing game which I don't buy. I think they gameplan for Tiki first off not a young QB like Eli. Both San Diego and Seattle have a better passing game right now then the Giants for the most part, if not better more potent may be the better word.

[YouMadeTheScene]

Neither Shaun nor Tiki gets the full respect they deserve. LT is an incredible back, he's so explosive. I think that LT is the most dangerous, Tiki is the most versatile, and Shaun is the most reliable and consistent. Part of that is because Shaun does avoid smashing forward at times, he's always healthy. It's hard to choose who's the best because they all contribute in different ways to their teams.

I think that may be the best assesment. I think it could be a 3 way tie if anything. I think the three of them are a mix of the things you stated Consistent, Versatile, and Explosive. For the most part compared to the running backs in the leauge they all are above them in three categories you listed.

[bigmike]

i'd say it's
1A) LT
1B) Tiki
3) Shaun Alexander
4) Edge

Rudi: 2800+ yards rushing, 25 total TDs in the last two seasons, 4.2 ypc career average, 13 100 yard rushing games
Willis: 2200+ yards rushing, 18 total TDs in the last two seasons, 3.9 ypc career average, 11 100 yard rushing games

I think if you trade willis for rudi, they'd trade stats. Willis would have 600 yards and 7 TD's more too if he played under the Cincy offense.
The fact that he's that close in yardage and TD's on a horrible bills team is impressive to me.

[justinevans]

I do watch LT play and Tiki. I TiVO about 4 or 5 NFL games a week outside the Giants and Jets usually it is the Bengals, Colts, Chargers, Seahawks, KC, and Chicago. And still I think Tiki is the better runner. Stats say one thing, and if you watch Tiki he is very evasive and on top of that LT isn't much faster. Tiki I think is better at breaking tackles. This is just based on my opinion from watching both of them a ton.


1. Tiki/LT (I really can't decide)
3. Alexander
4. Edge
5. Deuce
6. Dunn
7. Portis
8. LJ (I'm sorry he has not started that many games and when McGahee was sharing time and got time over Henry he looked great too. It's too early to tell)
9. Rudi Johnson
10. Willis
11. Curtis
12. Thomas Jones
13. Dillon

But I sort of retract what I said. I really can't decide who is better LT or Tiki. I mean a lot of the things I looked at tell me a lot but I still can't really decide who is better. I still think Tiki is better then SA but not by much.

And someone said that teams gameplan to the Giants passing game which I don't buy. I think they gameplan for Tiki first off not a young QB like Eli. Both San Diego and Seattle have a better passing game right now then the Giants for the most part, if not better more potent may be the better word.

I think LT has the worst line out of alexander, edge, tiki, and lj

but to say lj is too early to tell?

he has started 8 games and has the most yards from scrimmage than any back since november 1st. he has 7 straight games over 100 yds and 6 straight over 118. he is on pace for 2000 total yards and 18 touchdowns. he also averages 5.1 yds a carry.

[justinevans]

haha what happen to priest holmes?

he was still a top back until his injury.

[still_life]

Bengals offense wasn't that great until this year. Rudi took Corey Dillon's job away from him. That's saying something.

[selftitled85]

tiki is one of the slower backs in the nfl. i think alexander is faster then him. what tiki has over alexander is better vision and evasiveness.

[justinevans]

i'd say it's
1A) LT
1B) Tiki
3) Shaun Alexander
4) Edge



I think if you trade willis for rudi, they'd trade stats. Willis would have 600 yards and 7 TD's more too if he played under the Cincy offense.
The fact that he's that close in yardage and TD's on a horrible bills team is impressive to me.

the bills oline is not that bad atleast was not.

[bigmike]

Bengals offense wasn't that great until this year. Rudi took Corey Dillon's job away from him. That's saying something.

they bengals offense was starting to put up good numbers last year. Cincy was top 20 in the league last year in total offense and the Bills were 26th last year. It wasn't an anemic bengal offense last year.

[Scott Weber]

tiki is one of the slower backs in the nfl. i think alexander is faster then him. what tiki has over alexander is better vision and evasiveness.
Hmmm...I think Alexander has the best vision in the NFL, he's so patient and waits for holes. Tiki is definitely better at making things happen on his own than Shaun, Shaun waits for holes and then glides on through.

[Jesse2]

the bills oline is not that bad atleast was not.
in the mid 90's it wasn't that bad :). they are terrible right now, and have been for a while. their o-line is the reason bledsoe never worked out. he's too much of a statue/lennie from "of mice and men" to work with an offensive line like buffalo's.

[bigmike]

in the mid 90's it wasn't that bad :). they are terrible right now, and have been for a while. their o-line is the reason bledsoe never worked out. he's too much of a statue/george from "of mice and men" to work with an offensive line like buffalo's.

So i'm assuming that was your witty way of taking a shot and calling Bledsoe retarded. But Lennie was the retarded one, not george. But, at least you tried.

[justinevans]

in the mid 90's it wasn't that bad :). they are terrible right now, and have been for a while. their o-line is the reason bledsoe never worked out. he's too much of a statue/george from "of mice and men" to work with an offensive line like buffalo's.

well dallas has a pretty damn good o-line and bledsoe has not done much better.

[Jesse2]

So i'm assuming that was your witty way of taking a shot and calling Bledsoe retarded. But Lennie was the retarded one, not george. But, at least you tried.

blast. well in my defense i read that book over 10 years ago.

as a bills fan, i think i have watched enough games to know that bledsoe could not be successful in that offense. i had no beef with him, i liked him since his college days, but he was not a fit in buffalo.

[YouMadeTheScene]

I think LT has the worst line out of alexander, edge, tiki, and lj

but to say lj is too early to tell?

he has started 8 games and has the most yards from scrimmage than any back since november 1st. he has 7 straight games over 100 yds and 6 straight over 118. he is on pace for 2000 total yards and 18 touchdowns. he also averages 5.1 yds a carry.

I'm aware that pass blocking and run blocking are different but

NYG- 25 Sacks Allowed
SD-24 Sacks Allowed
Seattle-21 Sacks Allowed

To look at personel

San Diego is starting Shane Olivea who started 16 games them last year, Mike Goff who started 16 games for them last year, Nick Hardwick who started 14 games for them last year, Kris Dielman who played 15 games last year and his first year starting, then Roman Oben started 16 games for them last year first 8 this year and Leander Jordan has stepped in and started 7 games in his absence and was with the team last year. So they were all together last year and most of them started a lot of games or played in all games last year.

Seattle is Seattle

Giants- Kareem McKenzie first year witht he team played with Jets last year now is hurt Bob Whitfield who didn't start a game since 2003 started this past week for tiki's record breaking day, Chris Snee started 11 games for them last year and started all this year, Shaun O'Hara started 12 last year and 14 this year, Diehl has started past 3 years, Pettigout started his career with the giants. So they just got McKenzie in and they now have Rich Shuebert who didnt play a game last year playing LG. They have a patchwork line right now ask anyone and Tiki had a record breaking game.

All of San Diego's team were together last year and 3 out of 5 were full time starters where Giants have a new tackle and only one guy was a full time starter.

[justinevans]

I'm aware that pass blocking and run blocking are different but

NYG- 25 Sacks Allowed
SD-24 Sacks Allowed
Seattle-21 Sacks Allowed

To look at personel

San Diego is starting Shane Olivea who started 16 games them last year, Mike Goff who started 16 games for them last year, Nick Hardwick who started 14 games for them last year, Kris Dielman who played 15 games last year and his first year starting, then Roman Oben started 16 games for them last year first 8 this year and Leander Jordan has stepped in and started 7 games in his absence and was with the team last year. So they were all together last year and most of them started a lot of games or played in all games last year.

Seattle is Seattle

Giants- Kareem McKenzie first year witht he team played with Jets last year now is hurt Bob Whitfield who didn't start a game since 2003 started this past week for tiki's record breaking day, Chris Snee started 11 games for them last year and started all this year, Shaun O'Hara started 12 last year and 14 this year, Diehl has started past 3 years, Pettigout started his career with the giants. So they just got McKenzie in and they now have Rich Shuebert who didnt play a game last year playing LG. They have a patchwork line right now ask anyone and Tiki had a record breaking game.

All of San Diego's team were together last year and 3 out of 5 were full time starters where Giants have a new tackle and only one guy was a full time starter.

Eli has attempted 492 passes, Brees 453, Hasselback 422.

You have to take that into consideration when you talk about lines.

[YouMadeTheScene]

Eli has attempted 492 passes, Brees 453, Hasselback 422.

You have to take that into consideration when you talk about lines.

Passing wise yes. That also helps a Tiki argument that the Giants pass the most but he continues to be a top rushing leader.

[justinevans]

Passing wise yes. That also helps a Tiki argument that the Giants pass the most but he continues to be a top rushing leader.

Rushing attempts alexander 329, tiki 313, lt 306 And he is not the rushing leader...alexander is close to 100 more yards then him and averages .1 yds a carry more.

[YouMadeTheScene]

Rushing attempts alexander 329, tiki 313, lt 306 And he is not the rushing leader...alexander is close to 100 more yards then him and averages .1 yds a carry more.

I said he was a top rushing leader. Not THE top rushing leader. Past 2 years he has been top 3 i think

[YouMadeTheScene]

Bill Simmons just said Tiki was MVP

[bigmike]

blast. well in my defense i read that book over 10 years ago.

as a bills fan, i think i have watched enough games to know that bledsoe could not be successful in that offense. i had no beef with him, i liked him since his college days, but he was not a fit in buffalo.

i know. just giving you a hard time, i suppose.

I've always liked bledsoe, too. But the Buffalo thing was a horrible fit.

[Broken Parachute]

Tiki is my favorite player on the Giants, and I'd have to say that Tomlinson is better. He catches better and has better moves. Tiki is one of the best in the NFL. Plus, like it was already said, you can't leave Larry Johnson or Shaun Alexander out of the mix. Tiki is one of the best though. He adds to his numbers every season. This season he's got his career high so far for rushing.

[justinevans]

I said he was a top rushing leader. Not THE top rushing leader. Past 2 years he has been top 3 i think

well you don't have multiple leaders...haha im kidding yeah i understand.