Best Prez Ever...

[yeat182]

Let's hear who eveyone thinks is the best president in their opinion. also, try and have some facts to back it up if needed, not just, "he rules" or whatever....


i'm not sure i could pick one, i would probably say its a toss up between washington, jefferson, lincoln, teddy roosevelt, and truman.

i'll run a poll, but i'm sure there will be more than 10 different presidents, so it may not have your pick, sorry.

[WithStamin]

I had a hard time choosing between FDR, Truman, and Reagan. FDR and Truman are probaby as popular as they are becuase they were presidents during wartime, so I'll go with Reagan. We never really got to see what either of those other two were like outside of wartime.

[yeat182]

true, but you could make a case for FDR because he was president for so long leading up to wwII, during the depression, based on that alone and not even the war you might be able to make the case if you wanted to...

[NOFXdesendents5]

FDR. He was good. He brought us out of the Depression, made Social Security and Insurance and that shit, and helped us in WWII.

It is "Reagan" not "Regan".

[yeat182]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
It is "Reagan" not "Regan".


ooops, good looking out. i'll try to fix that.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by yeat182
ooops, good looking out. i'll try to fix that.
Reagan is the man! Who the hell picked Washington? What the hell did he do?

[yeat182]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Reagan is the man! Who the hell picked Washington? What the hell did he do?

are you serious? i picked washington.

[WithStamin]

He was a great general, but what did Washington really do as president? Dunno, maybe I'm just ignorant about that.

[yeat182]

he did alot of things to establish the powers of the president, and limit them, so that it is as equal as the other branches of government. he did things like step down after 2 terms when popular opinion wanted him to remain president, realizing that one man should not rule for extended periods of time, like the kings of europe. also he was intrumental in establishing what government is supposed to do for the country and what it should let the states take care of themselves. he had great foresight about not only the presidency but also the nation itself and gave some great advice in his farewell address (stuff about how america must be wary of entering into entangling alliances and such). again, it wasn't anything major, like FDR or Lincoln, but he had a huge responsibility by being the first president, a responsibilty to set a precedent on how the position should be run, and how they can and cannot use their powers, if he had fucked it up early on the country would have been doomed. he's pretty interesting actually, you might want to look into him a little, but i can see why you make a case for reagan, he was great too.

[zach]

Originally posted by WithStamin
I had a hard time choosing between FDR, Truman, and Reagan. FDR and Truman are probaby as popular as they are becuase they were presidents during wartime, so I'll go with Reagan. We never really got to see what either of those other two were like outside of wartime.
are you seroulsy going with regan? You do know he is the one that supplied the iraqis whith biological and chemical weapons don't you?

[WithStamin]

Oh no.... Who voted for Clinton?

[zach]

not me, i didn't vote, i'm undecided, is their an undecded option?

[zach]

I jjst cjecked, and their isn't

[NOFXdesendents5]

Originally posted by zach
are you seroulsy going with regan? You do know he is the one that supplied the iraqis whith biological and chemical weapons don't you?

i never normally agree with zach, but reagan gave the Iraquis those weapons that we are going to war over now. Sure, at the time they were fighting the Iranians, but did Reags really think Sadam would just stop using weapons after seeing their affect?

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by zach
are you seroulsy going with regan? You do know he is the one that supplied the iraqis whith biological and chemical weapons don't you? That was the one big mistake of his presidency. It looked like the right thing to do at the time, but it was a mistake in the long run. Other than that, I think he did a pretty good job.

[WithStamin]

*bump*

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by yeat182
true, but you could make a case for FDR because he was president for so long leading up to wwII, during the depression, based on that alone and not even the war you might be able to make the case if you wanted to...

FDR was a horrible pres.

1 He started the USA into its descent into a welfare start.
2 He knew that Pearl Harbors was going to happen and didn't try to stop it so that he could get public opinion in his favor for the war (i personally think we should have gone into wwII but he shouldn't have wasted american lives to get his way)
3 He lengthened the Depression by setting up social work programs, instead of helping out the business world, which would have pulled us out of the depression or at least shorten it.
4 He did nothing to end, or slow down, the Holocaust, because of his own hatred for the Jews. ( He could have easily bombed Austwitiz's (spelling) train lines or gass chambers, while he was bombing germany troops and factorys near there.)
5 He went against tradition, and broke the 2 term limit, which was against the founding fathers will.
6 He threatened to destroy the frame work of the Supreme Court if it didn't go with his social "Experiment."

[WithStamin]

Good points. Maybe FDR wasn't so good. After all, he was a democrat.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by yeat182
he did alot of things to establish the powers of the president, and limit them, so that it is as equal as the other branches of government. he did things like step down after 2 terms when popular opinion wanted him to remain president, realizing that one man should not rule for extended periods of time, like the kings of europe. also he was intrumental in establishing what government is supposed to do for the country and what it should let the states take care of themselves. he had great foresight about not only the presidency but also the nation itself and gave some great advice in his farewell address (stuff about how america must be wary of entering into entangling alliances and such). again, it wasn't anything major, like FDR or Lincoln, but he had a huge responsibility by being the first president, a responsibilty to set a precedent on how the position should be run, and how they can and cannot use their powers, if he had fucked it up early on the country would have been doomed. he's pretty interesting actually, you might want to look into him a little, but i can see why you make a case for reagan, he was great too.
Just because you were the first doesnt make you the greatest. The first man to skateboard? Shit I could do better than him and I dont even skate. Yes Washington was a pioneer, but anyone could have done that job. His military experience was remarkable, but his presidency wasn't. He is the most overcredited president in the history of the US, well maybe after Kennedy.

[The Nephilm]

Washington single handedly started the French-Indian war remember?

He wasn't that great of a president. I'd give my vote to Andrew Jackson personally.

[Expert_Monk]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Good points. Maybe FDR wasn't so good. After all, he was a democrat.

That's not a fair thing to say, both parties have changed quite a bit since then.

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by Expert_Monk
That's not a fair thing to say, both parties have changed quite a bit since then. Yeah, I know. The democratic party used to be much more moderate than it is today. I said that with some subtle sarcasm. Maybe a bit too subtle...

[your moms hot]

washington - cuz he was the only president whose won the election unanimously and he ran without a party behind him...

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by your moms hot
washington - cuz he was the only president whose won the election unanimously and he ran without a party behind him...
no parties at all back then so that doesnt really count

[your moms hot]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
FDR was a horrible pres.

1 He started the USA into its descent into a welfare start.
2 He knew that Pearl Harbors was going to happen and didn't try to stop it so that he could get public opinion in his favor for the war (i personally think we should have gone into wwII but he shouldn't have wasted american lives to get his way)
3 He lengthened the Depression by setting up social work programs, instead of helping out the business world, which would have pulled us out of the depression or at least shorten it.
4 He did nothing to end, or slow down, the Holocaust, because of his own hatred for the Jews. ( He could have easily bombed Austwitiz's (spelling) train lines or gass chambers, while he was bombing germany troops and factorys near there.)
5 He went against tradition, and broke the 2 term limit, which was against the founding fathers will.
6 He threatened to destroy the frame work of the Supreme Court if it didn't go with his social "Experiment."

this could be interesting:
1: he also got the usa out of the worst depression this country has ever seen
2: declare war without reason?? doesnt make much sense..specaily when public opinions against it and america has a loooong tradition of neutrality and isolationism
3: he also destroyed laissez faire, the economic theory that got us into the depression in the first place..laissez faire promoted monopolies which consilidated until much of the american wealth was in the hands of a few richasfuck industrialists. not to mention he did get us out of the depression
4: agreed...bad pr...but there are more important military targets..not saying i agree with the policy...just offering a reason
5: which is why they instituted the constitutional limit to the terms of a president...but shit...the depression lasted from 1929 to the 1940s...much longer than 2 terms...i think its better to have one guy workin on somethin like economic recovery if its working than have 2 or 3
6: he threatened to destory the highly reactionary supreme court..the supreme court that favored big business and disapproved of labor unions...the supreme court that declared many of his New Deal legislation unconstitutional on the grounds that the federal government didnt have the authority to intervene like that in the lives of citizens..without this new deal legislation...we wouldnt have social security, farmer subsidies to keep farmers in business, legitimate labor unions to keep workers in business, and a billion other things that we have today

i just finished writing a paper on the new deal...so yeah..i do know what im talkin about

[your moms hot]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
no parties at all back then so that doesnt really count
still yo...hes the man...

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Yeah, I know. The democratic party used to be much more moderate than it is today. I said that with some subtle sarcasm. Maybe a bit too subtle...
Im all for FDR democracy. Instead of welfare he provided jobs to those who needed money, thats cool wit me

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by your moms hot
still yo...hes the man...
no

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
Washington single handedly started the French-Indian war remember?

He wasn't that great of a president. I'd give my vote to Andrew Jackson personally.
OK, neph, all though we've had our dissagreements in the past, I would rank AJ up their in my top 3

[yeat182]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Just because you were the first doesnt make you the greatest. The first man to skateboard? Shit I could do better than him and I dont even skate. Yes Washington was a pioneer, but anyone could have done that job. His military experience was remarkable, but his presidency wasn't. He is the most overcredited president in the history of the US, well maybe after Kennedy.

have you ever read any of his biographies? the man was a great leader, but i'm not trying to convince anyone that he was the best, just in my opinion i think he was. like i said in an earlier post, i would check him out if i were you, you might be surprised, i know i was the first time i read about him.

ps. i wasn't trying to say that just because he was first that made him the best, sorry if it came off that way, what i meant was that in being the first he could have set a bad example and been the model that other presidents based their presidency's on, could have started the country off down a very dangerous path.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
no parties at all back then so that doesnt really count

there were parties back then, federalists, democrats etc.....

[yeat182]

i would also agree that Andrew Jackson deserves mention, i wish there were more room on the poll, like i said, there were bound to be quality choices left out, sorry about that.


also in regards to FDR, i would say that while he certainly got the nation through the depression and most of WWII, the worst thing he did for the country was expand the federal government, look at it today, its huge and reaches into nearly every facet of our lives, while he did this with good intentions, creating jobs during the depression, in the long run it may have been a bad move.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by yeat182
i would also agree that Andrew Jackson deserves mention, i wish there were more room on the poll, like i said, there were bound to be quality choices left out, sorry about that.


also in regards to FDR, i would say that while he certainly got the nation through the depression and most of WWII, the worst thing he did for the country was expand the federal government, look at it today, its huge and reaches into nearly every facet of our lives, while he did this with good intentions, creating jobs during the depression, in the long run it may have been a bad move.
small government is the way to go

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by your moms hot
this could be interesting:
1: he also got the usa out of the worst depression this country has ever seen
2: declare war without reason?? doesnt make much sense..specaily when public opinions against it and america has a loooong tradition of neutrality and isolationism
3: he also destroyed laissez faire, the economic theory that got us into the depression in the first place..laissez faire promoted monopolies which consilidated until much of the american wealth was in the hands of a few richasfuck industrialists. not to mention he did get us out of the depression
4: agreed...bad pr...but there are more important military targets..not saying i agree with the policy...just offering a reason
5: which is why they instituted the constitutional limit to the terms of a president...but shit...the depression lasted from 1929 to the 1940s...much longer than 2 terms...i think its better to have one guy workin on somethin like economic recovery if its working than have 2 or 3
6: he threatened to destory the highly reactionary supreme court..the supreme court that favored big business and disapproved of labor unions...the supreme court that declared many of his New Deal legislation unconstitutional on the grounds that the federal government didnt have the authority to intervene like that in the lives of citizens..without this new deal legislation...we wouldnt have social security, farmer subsidies to keep farmers in business, legitimate labor unions to keep workers in business, and a billion other things that we have today



1. No he didn't the war did.
2. I dont no what your getting at here, i never said he went to war with out reason. I just said he let a major disaster happen so that he could go to war.
3. Again he didn't get us out of the depression, and i made no comments about our economy, i said his social programs didn't work, and that he did nothing to promote business.
4. Ashwitiz (spelling) would have been a good target because shell casing and bullets were made in a sub-camps of it and this was a known fact. Also he knew what the nazis were doing and just from a human stand point you would have to try and stop it, even Churchhill wanted to bomb the concentration camps, but FDR couldn't spare the bombs.
5. He wasn't working on economic recover. Putting people in dead end job building stuff is not economic recovery. Promoting business would have help alot more. And maybe we had gotten some one new in there the depression wouldn't have lasted so long.
6. Just because the Supreme court didn't agree with him doesn't give him the right to destroy it. Also most of the "new deal" were unconstitutional, and the cause of us having such a huge corrupt government structure today.

Farm subsides dont keep farms in business, it keeps them dependent on the gov. if the subsides weren't there the farmers would grow what sales and the market would set the value of produce, paying people to keep land idle isn't productive, when that land could be put to use in other.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
.

Farm subsides dont keep farms in business, it keeps them dependent on the gov. if the subsides weren't there the farmers would grow what sales and the market would set the value of produce, paying people to keep land idle isn't productive, when that land could be put to use in other.



about the farms, during the depression the midwest suffered the one of the worst droughts in the country's history, and the farmers couldn't grow anything, so the government gave them money so they would be able to keep up with their bank payments and be able to keep up their farms/equiptment and buy food, clothing etc... it wasn't that they were just being idle, they had no choice, they couldn't grow anything.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by yeat182
about the farms, during the depression the midwest suffered the one of the worst droughts in the country's history, and the farmers couldn't grow anything, so the government gave them money so they would be able to keep up with their bank payments and be able to keep up their farms/equiptment and buy food, clothing etc... it wasn't that they were just being idle, they had no choice, they couldn't grow anything.

You totally missed my point, i talking about what problems his policys caused now.

Also that drought was at least half man made (if not more) and when people fuck themselves it is not the gov. job to make things right again.

[yeat182]

how was the drought half man made? i know some towns and buisnesses started diverting rivers and building dams that "stole" the water that was being used for the farms, but that is hardly the fault of the farmer. but i agree that now, it is a waste of money, especially when the government buys the surplus crops.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by yeat182
how was the drought half man made? i know some towns and buisnesses started diverting rivers and building dams that "stole" the water that was being used for the farms, but that is hardly the fault of the farmer. but i agree that now, it is a waste of money, especially when the government buys the surplus crops.

every time a farm plants seeds and allows them to grow into crops it depletes the nutrients in the soil, and overtime the soil is nolonger able to hold the water necessary to produce life. And because crops in the twentys were in such high in europe, farms weren't watching the amount they grew, and so by teh thirties the land was useless. That is why the drought was kindof man made.

[your moms hot]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
1. No he didn't the war did.
2. I dont no what your getting at here, i never said he went to war with out reason. I just said he let a major disaster happen so that he could go to war.
3. Again he didn't get us out of the depression, and i made no comments about our economy, i said his social programs didn't work, and that he did nothing to promote business.
4. Ashwitiz (spelling) would have been a good target because shell casing and bullets were made in a sub-camps of it and this was a known fact. Also he knew what the nazis were doing and just from a human stand point you would have to try and stop it, even Churchhill wanted to bomb the concentration camps, but FDR couldn't spare the bombs.
5. He wasn't working on economic recover. Putting people in dead end job building stuff is not economic recovery. Promoting business would have help alot more. And maybe we had gotten some one new in there the depression wouldn't have lasted so long.
6. Just because the Supreme court didn't agree with him doesn't give him the right to destroy it. Also most of the "new deal" were unconstitutional, and the cause of us having such a huge corrupt government structure today.

Farm subsides dont keep farms in business, it keeps them dependent on the gov. if the subsides weren't there the farmers would grow what sales and the market would set the value of produce, paying people to keep land idle isn't productive, when that land could be put to use in other.

most of this economic shit youre arguing was already tried by the man before fdr...hoover.

hoover tried to keep the government small...the depression only got worse
hoover refused to involve the government in the lives of the people...the depression still got worse
hoover stuck to his laissez faire (ie pro business) theories that started the depression in the first place....

roosevelt tried to grow the economy by helping out those at the bottom...the people..nto the businesses...it was the damn businesses that started the fucking depression...

my point is...if u wanna hate fdr..go ahead. im just sayin he did what had to be done to get out of the depression...involving the gov't more...

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by your moms hot
most of this economic shit youre arguing was already tried by the man before fdr...hoover.

hoover tried to keep the government small...the depression only got worse
hoover refused to involve the government in the lives of the people...the depression still got worse
hoover stuck to his laissez faire (ie pro business) theories that started the depression in the first place....

roosevelt tried to grow the economy by helping out those at the bottom...the people..nto the businesses...it was the damn businesses that started the fucking depression...

my point is...if u wanna hate fdr..go ahead. im just sayin he did what had to be done to get out of the depression...involving the gov't more...

I dont personally hate FDR, and i dont think i said that anywhere, i just think most of the social problems we have today were cause by his legacy.

It wasn't just business that got us into the depression, it was people buying stock and many other things with money they didn't have.

[yeat182]

top

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by yeat182
top
?

[yeat182]

i just wanted to move this back up to the top of the list, so it doesn't get lost, thats all...