Pro Bowl selections

[LeftWideOpen]

Pro Bowl selections: http://nfl.com/probowl/afc_roster

I think they definitely got the AFC right.

In the NFC, Brunell got screwed. Vick has no business making it this season. Not sure about Holt making it either. Besides that, pretty good selections this season.

[Goodbye Forever]

Johnathan Vilma is widely considered the best MLB in football, and leads the NFL in tackles (he leads in solo tackles by 15 as well). It's complete joke that he isn't on the roster. I'm furious right now.

[still_life]

Reggie Wayne and Hines Ward were completely robbed in the AFC. Fuck Chambers and Rod Smith. Chambers has one big game and all of a sudden he's in the Pro Bowl? Ridiculous.

Michael Vick making it this year is pathetic, Delhomme probably didn't deserve it either. Not so sure Torry Holt was a good choice either.

[ActorInThisPlay]

Pro Bowl selections: http://nfl.com/probowl/afc_roster

I think they definitely got the AFC right.

In the NFC, Brunell got screwed. Vick has no business making it this season. Not sure about Holt making it either. Besides that, pretty good selections this season.
yeah Vick doesn't deserve to be on there.

Brunell should have made it instead of Vick, but the others just show how weak the NFC really is. The NFC RB's look good though.

[Goodbye Forever]

I guess the Jets got a break with Ty Law, though. He's got pretty good numbers, but he's made some bonehead plays this year. Meh.

[marrost]

Osi AND Strahan. Awesome.

[Spicoli hey bud]

Reggie Wayne and Hines Ward were completely robbed in the AFC. Fuck Chambers and Rod Smith. Chambers has one big game and all of a sudden he's in the Pro Bowl? Ridiculous.

Michael Vick making it this year is pathetic, Delhomme probably didn't deserve it either. Not so sure Torry Holt was a good choice either.
I agree that Hines and Wayne are pro bowl caliber, moreso Hines, but Chambers and Smith are deserving of these spots. Chambers, under Gus Ferrotte, has had more than "one big game." He's contributed to Miami's recent success a great deal. Rod Smith is never appreciated, and he's one of the greatest recievers of the last 10 years. His stats this season were pretty much identical to those of REggie Wayne, and I'd probably put him in over Wayne as well. Hines had about 20 less receptions and 100-200 or so yards less than these other guys. The only difference...10 TDs. Hines deserved it too.

[still_life]

WR's should go for a good combo of catches/yards/TDs. Ward and Wayne deserve it more than those two, who have had good seasons, but not as consistent.

[LeftWideOpen]

I agree that Hines and Wayne are pro bowl caliber, moreso Hines, but Chambers and Smith are deserving of these spots. Chambers, under Gus Ferrotte, has had more than "one big game." He's contributed to Miami's recent success a great deal. Rod Smith is never appreciated, and he's one of the greatest recievers of the last 10 years. His stats this season were pretty much identical to those of REggie Wayne, and I'd probably put him in over Wayne as well. Hines had about 20 less receptions and 100-200 or so yards less than these other guys. The only difference...10 TDs. Hines deserved it too.

couldnt agree more with smith. He's quitely been among the best this season. He's a lock for at least 5 receptions and 60 yards, but doesnt often surpass 80 or 90 so he's never in the headlines.

[LeftWideOpen]

WR's should go for a good combo of catches/yards/TDs. Ward and Wayne deserve it more than those two, who have had good seasons, but not as consistent.

smith hasnt been consistent?! thats his greatest quality.

[Talib Scottie]

smith hasnt been consistent?! thats his greatest quality.
wrong conference.

[LeftWideOpen]

wrong conference.

nope i have the right conference. Rod Smith ..plays for the Broncos ... has over 1000 yards recieving and 6 TD's ... if it were Steve Smith, there wouldnt be any debate.

[still_life]

100 yard receiving games
Ward - 3
Smith - 2

Multiple TD games
Ward - 3
Smith - 0

Team pass attempts
Denver - 414
Pittsburgh - 342

[Talib Scottie]

nope i have the right conference. Rod Smith ..plays for the Broncos ... has over 1000 yards recieving and 6 TD's ... if it were Steve Smith, there wouldnt be any debate.
my bust. haha. I actually sat and thought are they talking about someone else and looked at the fucking list.

[LeftWideOpen]

100 yard receiving games
Ward - 3
Smith - 2

Multiple TD games
Ward - 3
Smith - 0

Team pass attempts
Denver - 414
Pittsburgh - 342

you're making my argument for me. smith's yards are more evenly distributed, that's consistency. The multiple TD games is the only thing in Ward's favor because that's his only advantage: TDs. You forgot these ..

Receptions
Smith - 79
Ward - 61

Yards
Smith - 1,003
Ward - 830

Ward also had 6 games with 3 receptions or less. That's not consistency.

[yeat182]

Johnathan Vilma is widely considered the best MLB in football, and leads the NFL in tackles (he leads in solo tackles by 15 as well). It's complete joke that he isn't on the roster. I'm furious right now.

widely considered if you igore Urlacher, Lewis, Bruschi, Thomas...

[yeat182]

It's pretty widely accepted that guys make the pro bowl based on the previous years preformance, the voting ends about half way through the year, and the coaches and players generally vote based on what kind of season the guy had the year before and their reputation in general. that explains why alot of guys (Ty Law, Vick) despite average seasons this year.

[still_life]

Marc Bulger played in only 8 games this year and still has Vick beat in every passing stat.

[LeftWideOpen]

Marc Bulger played in only 8 games this year and still has Vick beat in every passing stat.

yeah Vick has no business being there. I couldnt believe it when I heard his name announced on NFL Live.

[still_life]

you're making my argument for me. smith's yards are more evenly distributed, that's consistency. The multiple TD games is the only thing in Ward's favor because that's his only advantage: TDs. You forgot these ..

Receptions
Smith - 79
Ward - 61

Yards
Smith - 1,003
Ward - 830

Ward also had 6 games with 3 receptions or less. That's not consistency.

TDs should carry more weight.

Those games have hardly anything to do with his play.

2 catches vs. TEN - 11 pass attempts in the game, 9 completions
3 catches vs. CIN - 14 pass attempts in the game, 9 completions
1 catch vs. GB - 16 pass attempts in the game, 9 completions
3 catches vs. IND - 26 pass attempts in the game, 17 completions
2 catches vs. CHI - 20 pass attempts in the game, 13 completions
2 catches vs. MIN - 15 pass attempts in the game, 10 completions

The only ones there that don't look so good for him are Indy and Chicago, but he had a TD in each. It's not his fault they don't throw enough. Batch was terrible in that game he played with him, his longest pass was 12 yards to Ward. The Indy game was Roethlisberger's first pass and they mostly have thrown short since then because of his thumb and the o-line's lack of protection.

[LeftWideOpen]

TDs should carry more weight.

WR's should go for a good combo of catches/yards/TDs. Ward and Wayne deserve it more than those two, who have had good seasons, but not as consistent.

Which one is it? Should there be a combination and consistency ..or should there be an emphasis on TDs and disregard consistency?

You can't have both ways. I'm not taking anything away from Ward ...he can make a case over Chambers for sure. But not Rod Smith. He's been a model of consistency and he's got a combination of yards/recs/TDs

[still_life]

You should rack up some good numbers in all 3 categories. A TD is the best catch a WR could make right? 10 is better than 6. So is 9. I don't see why you said no to Chambers, but yes to Smith. Chambers has a better case with those TDs. Wayne definitely has a better case than Smith too.

[oldwirehands]

Tommie Harris, CHI
Lance Briggs, CHI
Brian Urlacher, CHI
Nathan Vasher, CHI
Mike Brown, CHI

Thats all I care about.

[LeftWideOpen]

You should rack up some good numbers in all 3 categories. A TD is the best catch a WR could make right? 10 is better than 6. So is 9. I don't see why you said no to Chambers, but yes to Smith. Chambers has a better case with those TDs. Wayne definitely has a better case than Smith too.

chambers had the TDs over smith...but not the yards and receptions. much like ward. smith had more of a complete package - 2/3 of the equation over both ward and chambers. if anything, the ability to make such a strong case for smith is at least proof that he deserved his spot. ward and wayne weren't snubbed by smith's inclusion.

[still_life]

1000 yards and 6 TDs shouldn't just cut it this season with some of the numbers people have put up.

[still_life]

I still think they should wait until after week 17 is over to announce these.

[LeftWideOpen]

1000 yards and 6 TDs shouldn't just cut it this season with some of the numbers people have put up.

at the same time, its hard to make a case for someone with just 60 catches and barely over 800 yards receiving.

[itsjdiggity]

nuts, no KVB

[still_life]

at the same time, its hard to make a case for someone with just over 800 yards receiving.

Not when they have 10 TDs, missed one game, played with 3 different QB's, and are on the league's 2nd most unbalanced offense (Arizona is 1st).

Hypothetically, if Ward adds 200 yards and 3 TDs in the last two games, and Smith adds 100 yards and no TDs, then how would this look?

[LeftWideOpen]

Not when they have 10 TDs, missed one game, played with 3 different QB's, and are on the league's 2nd most unbalanced offense (Arizona is 1st).

Hypothetically, if Ward adds 200 yards and 3 TDs in the last two games, and Smith adds 100 yards and no TDs, then how would this look?

well in that situation ward would have 13 td's and surely be the #3 WR behind Harrison and Johnson. Then it would be a debate between Smith and Chambers for the final spot. They picked the teams already though, and Smith has the better overall numbers right now.

[still_life]

That's why they should wait until the regular season is over.

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

Zach fucking Thomas? are you serious?

Jonathan Vilma or London Fletcher should have made it over Thomas, he's in the twilight of his career and that's SO obvious when you watch him play.

[still_life]

Why not Thomas over Vilma?

Thomas: 137 tackles, 89 solo, 48 assists, 2 sacks, 1 INT, 2 PD, 4 FF, 1 FR
Vilma: 145 tackles, 105 solo, 40 assists, 0 sacks, 1 INT, 5 PD , 4 FF, 1 FR

Pretty similar stats. In that case, go with the guy on the better team.

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

London Fletcher: 140 tackles, 91 solo, 49 assists, 4 sacks, 1 INT, 2 PD, 1 FF, 1 FR

I just think Fletcher or Vilma has more value to their defense, as they're constantly around the play, even if it doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

Then again, I'm biased. I hate the Dolphins more than any other sports team in the world.

[still_life]

I don't think Fletcher's ever made the PB for some reason. A lot of it is on rep, and Thomas definitely has that.

[Goodbye Forever]

widely considered if you igore Urlacher, Lewis, Bruschi, Thomas...

Both have missed significant time this year. Most people still don't consider Bruschi better, anyway.

Urlacher: 94 solo tackles, 115 total tackles, 6 sacks, 1 FF
Vilma: 119 solo tackles, 149 total, 1 INT, 5 FF

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

I don't think Fletcher's ever made the PB for some reason. A lot of it is on rep, and Thomas definitely has that.
London Fletcher never has made the Pro Bowl, and the one good reason is where he played before Buffalo.....ST. LOUIS. The man could have made 200 tackles a year and not made the Pro Bowl in the years he was there because you know St. Lou's rep at that time was Gunslinging and No D.

But Fletcher is Pro Bowl quality. He rarely makes a bad play, is a tackling machine, and is ALWAYS around the play. Then again, most Bills get snubbed from the Pro Bowl so I'm used to it.

[still_life]

Personally, I think tackles are an overrated stat, and they're not even an official stat. Ever see Ray Lewis' tackle stats? Inflated as could be. I think big plays like forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, sacks, interceptions, etc. are the real measure of a good LB.

[hockey0001]

Personally, I think tackles are an overrated stat, and they're not even an official stat. Ever see Ray Lewis' tackle stats? Inflated as could be. I think big plays like forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, sacks, interceptions, etc. are the real measure of a good LB.

I agree that tackles are an overrated stat. It doesnt differentiate between a tackle at the line of scrimmage or a tackle 20 yards downfield.

[still_life]

Yeah, TFL's are good stats, but not just generic tackles. Especially for a DB. Great, you got beat so many times you had to make 70 tackles. If you shut down your man, that's a lot better than filling up the tackle sheet.

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

Yeah, TFL's are good stats, but not just generic tackles. Especially for a DB. Great, you got beat so many times you had to make 70 tackles. If you shut down your man, that's a lot better than filling up the tackle sheet.
that's not always the case though. sometimes your front 4 sucks (Buffalo) and your CB is just really good at supporting the run. Nate Clements has 85 tackles this year, but he doesn't get beat THAT often (only by Chris Chambers)

[still_life]

There are corners that play the run, but a lot of them also just get beat a lot. Clements isn't exactly a shutdown corner, if anyone is today.

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

There are corners that play the run, but a lot of them also just get beat a lot. Clements isn't exactly a shutdown corner, if anyone is today.
He's not a shutdown corner, but 9 times out of 10, he'll prevent his WR from having a big game....and his run support skills are definitely top-rate.

[yeat182]

Both have missed significant time this year. Most people still don't consider Bruschi better, anyway.

Urlacher: 94 solo tackles, 115 total tackles, 6 sacks, 1 FF
Vilma: 119 solo tackles, 149 total, 1 INT, 5 FF

i agree vilma might be having the better year, but he isn't considered better than those other guys, at least not yet. he is the future though.

[Scott Weber]

FINALLY. Mack Strong makes a pro bowl. The best blocking FB in the league, he's been with the team blocking for 11 1,000 yard rushers in the past 13 years. I'm so happy for him, he really deserves it. It's too bad it took some national spotlight attention on Seattle for Mack to finally get what he deserves.

[still_life]

FINALLY. Mack Strong makes a pro bowl. The best blocking FB in the league.

No, that would be Lorenzo Neal.

[yeat182]

i heard 2 days ago that patrick pass was leading in votes for FB in the AFC. Neal is a better pure FB though, Pass is an all around back and special teamer.

[Scott Weber]

No, that would be Lorenzo Neal.
Oooh, I forgot about him. 9 straight years of blocking for 1,000 yard rushers, right? Mack has produced 11 1,000 yard rushers in seattle over 13 years. chris warren, ricky watters, shaun alexander. I can't say it's clear who the better one is... But hey, Mack Strong's overall rating in Madden 06 is 93 and Neal's is 92. ;) (i'm not actually trying to pass that off as real evidence)

[still_life]

Neal's done it for 6 different teams, very impressive.

[Scott Weber]

Neal's done it for 6 different teams, very impressive.
in 4 of the past 9 years he hasn't even started half the games. Am I missing something?

[yeat182]

Neal's done it for 6 different teams, very impressive.

if he's that good, why hasn't one team kept him?

[still_life]

Not every team starts a game with a FB. That's a position that's been almost lost in the NFL. Not everyone knows how to use it right, or cares to use them right.

Neal is pretty much widely considered the best in the league.

[Scott Weber]

Not every team starts a game with a FB. That's a position that's been almost lost in the NFL. Not everyone knows how to use it right, or cares to use them right.

Neal is pretty much widely considered the best in the league.
whenever you say widely considered, it's strange to me because I never hear his name mentioned. I mean, I'm not a part of any NFL forums like you are, my exposure is limited to reading ESPN and watching NFL related things on TV, but still...it seems strange to throw widely considered around so easily.

[still_life]

FB's are rarely mentioned in the NFL. There's a good piece on Neal's career in an episode of NFL Films. He was going to be a featured back his rookie year until he was hurt early in the season. He became a FB and mastered blocking to save his career, since he couldn't be a starting RB after that injury.

[Scott Weber]

FB's are rarely mentioned in the NFL. There's a good piece on Neal's career in an episode of NFL Films. He was going to be a featured back his rookie year until he was hurt early in the season. He became a FB and mastered blocking to save his career, since he couldn't be a starting RB after that injury.
Interesting. I'll have to pay closer attention to him next time I watch the Chargers play.

[LeftWideOpen]

Interesting. I'll have to pay closer attention to him next time I watch the Chargers play.

He's one of the best. Strong can make a case too though, as can Greg Jones if you wanna call him a FB.

[still_life]

There was a great play earlier in the year when LT had a huge game on Sunday Night Football against the Giants. LT breaks off about a 60 yard run late in the game and Neal's plowing down the field right along with him. Drew Brees says every time they throw him the ball he has to knock his helmet into someone else.

[b e L I E v e]

i love all the niner players