Welfare

[WithStamin]

What do you think?

[kidinthecorner]

I know there's people that it honestly helps, but for the most part, get job.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by kidinthecorner
I know there's people that it honestly helps, but for the most part, get job.
Welfare is soooo bad. ODB, some rap guy, made millions of dollars saying mother fucker and rape bitches and hoes, turns around and collects food stamps on national TV. That alone should be enough to get rid of it

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Welfare is soooo bad. ODB, some rap guy, made millions of dollars saying mother fucker and rape bitches and hoes, turns around and collects food stamps on national TV. That alone should be enough to get rid of it

thats one extreme case. There are hundreds of reason to rid us of the present state of our welfare programs, but i dont think thats one of them.

[NOFXdesendents5]

I'm not trying to sound arrogant or mean but more than 5/8 of the people using welfare have no good reason to be using it. Sure it does help, and it is very helpful for those families but some people just get the checks and go get high and drunk with it instead of helping themselves.

Fucking get a job lazy shitheads and stop hurting our economy unless you have a reason.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
I'm not trying to sound arrogant or mean but more than 5/8 of the people using welfare have no good reason to be using it. Sure it does help, and it is very helpful for those families but some people just get the checks and go get high and drunk with it instead of helping themselves.

Fucking get a job lazy shitheads and stop hurting our economy unless you have a reason.
The longest someone should be on welfare is like 3 months, none of this 2 years bull shit

[NOFXdesendents5]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
The longest someone should be on welfare is like 3 months, none of this 2 years bull shit

i agree. six months tops. if you cant get a job at like mcdonalds by then, you are either retarded, injured or fucking lazy.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
i agree. six months tops. if you cant get a job at like mcdonalds by then, you are either retarded, injured or fucking lazy.

Mcdonalds doesn't pay enough to survive, if you have a family.

[Kingskank]

the economics behind welfare are such that they dont actually hurt the economy as much as you think...The alternative of no welfare would increase alot of societal vices, while decreasing how much money is put back into the economy in terms of spending. Sure it forces people to go out and get jobs, but for those who cant, society just cant abandon.

The balance between how much welfare is necessary and how much is wasted will be debated for eternity. It is impossible to come up with a perfect system that isnt abused, so if the choice is between welfare and no welfare you pretty much have to go with yes.

At least you guys in the States have a capped number of years, in Canada you can collect for seemingly ever. But the purpose of welfare is to give just enough money that the person cant really save...so practically every cent is spent and re-enters the economy and the economic cycle continues...its a way the government can invest into a nations economy...much like tax cuts or rebates to the middle class.

[NOFXdesendents5]

Originally posted by Kingskank
the economics behind welfare are such that they dont actually hurt the economy as much as you think...The alternative of no welfare would increase alot of societal vices, while decreasing how much money is put back into the economy in terms of spending. Sure it forces people to go out and get jobs, but for those who cant, society just cant abandon.

The balance between how much welfare is necessary and how much is wasted will be debated for eternity. It is impossible to come up with a perfect system that isnt abused, so if the choice is between welfare and no welfare you pretty much have to go with yes.

At least you guys in the States have a capped number of years, in Canada you can collect for seemingly ever. But the purpose of welfare is to give just enough money that the person cant really save...so practically every cent is spent and re-enters the economy and the economic cycle continues...its a way the government can invest into a nations economy...much like tax cuts or rebates to the middle class.


i cant fucking top that

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Kingskank
the economics behind welfare are such that they dont actually hurt the economy as much as you think...The alternative of no welfare would increase alot of societal vices, while decreasing how much money is put back into the economy in terms of spending. Sure it forces people to go out and get jobs, but for those who cant, society just cant abandon.

The balance between how much welfare is necessary and how much is wasted will be debated for eternity. It is impossible to come up with a perfect system that isnt abused, so if the choice is between welfare and no welfare you pretty much have to go with yes.

At least you guys in the States have a capped number of years, in Canada you can collect for seemingly ever. But the purpose of welfare is to give just enough money that the person cant really save...so practically every cent is spent and re-enters the economy and the economic cycle continues...its a way the government can invest into a nations economy...much like tax cuts or rebates to the middle class.
Who cannot find work? Everybody can work. Dont say retarded people, because thats what the Goodwill is for. Don't say hanicapped people, because they have jobs for them too. Also, if you are handicapped and CANNOT WORK DUE TO PHYSICAL DISABLILITY, you can collect social security. LAZINESS IS NOT A PHYSICAL DISABILITY, NEITHER IS DEPRESSION, IT'S JUST A SARCASTIC STATE OF MIND. Get off your ass and go work. Do away with welfare.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
Mcdonalds doesn't pay enough to survive, if you have a family.
neither does welfare, pull two jobs to make ends meet, thats what my parents did for the first 3 years of my life, plus my dad went to school. Now we live a comfortable life, and we have no worries about living pay check to paycheck. Hard Work.

[kidinthecorner]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
neither does welfare, pull two jobs to make ends meet, thats what my parents did for the first 3 years of my life, plus my dad went to school. Now we live a comfortable life, and we have no worries about living pay check to paycheck. Hard Work.

Fuck ya!! My mom raised 3 kids by working 2 jobs, and was too proud to ever even CONSIDER trying to get welfare. Now we're fine. We still live paycheck to paycheck every so often, but we always have food, we always have heat, and we get bonuses like hockey and a computer and TV.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by kidinthecorner
Fuck ya!! My mom raised 3 kids by working 2 jobs, and was too proud to ever even CONSIDER trying to get welfare. Now we're fine. We still live paycheck to paycheck every so often, but we always have food, we always have heat, and we get bonuses like hockey and a computer and TV.
see, hard work

[Kingskank]

hey...im not saying people shouldnt work hard. Pride is a separate issue..if youre letting your own personal pride stand in the way your arguements will always be biased.

i mean, my dad moved to winnipeg (which is 26 hours away) because his company was goign to lay him off..thats waht he had to do to support us, and since me and my brother are in university right now, its not like we could go with him...so hes by himself working his ass off. Before that he would work so much overtime to maintain our accustomed living, that he worked a year and two thirds worth once.

on an overall individual basis, yes i think people should work..my point was that welfare does not hurt the economy as much as you lead on.

my arguement was pure economics, not personal.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Kingskank
hey...im not saying people shouldnt work hard. Pride is a separate issue..if youre letting your own personal pride stand in the way your arguements will always be biased.

i mean, my dad moved to winnipeg (which is 26 hours away) because his company was goign to lay him off..thats waht he had to do to support us, and since me and my brother are in university right now, its not like we could go with him...so hes by himself working his ass off. Before that he would work so much overtime to maintain our accustomed living, that he worked a year and two thirds worth once.

on an overall individual basis, yes i think people should work..my point was that welfare does not hurt the economy as much as you lead on.

my arguement was pure economics, not personal.
economically its a waste of money. schools arent doing great right now, dont you think that would be a better place to focus our attention?

[Kingskank]

man...did you read my post?

you quoted it before so you had to have read it.

It is not a waste of money, it sounds like you dont understand economics. The economy doesnt work unless people spend money.

i dont feel like repeating myself...trust me ive been educated in the whole topic. Wasted welfare money are welfare checks that get put into the bank and never get spent...that situation doesnt happen very often.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Kingskank
man...did you read my post?

you quoted it before so you had to have read it.

It is not a waste of money, it sounds like you dont understand economics. The economy doesnt work unless people spend money.

i dont feel like repeating myself...trust me ive been educated in the whole topic. Wasted welfare money are welfare checks that get put into the bank and never get spent...that situation doesnt happen very often.
my mistake, i meant financially. drug money isnt taxed and doesnt pump the economy, so why waste money. if we pay teachers more, they buy supplies for school or whatever teachers buy and then stimulate the economy. game over

[Kingskank]

i hope by game over you dont mean that was your big finish...and you've suddenly won an arguement.

dont try to make it sound like i dont want money to be put into schools...cause obviously everyone wants to.

but welfare gets 100% spent...pretty much...money into schools gets spent the first time as well...but what happens to the people that have no money to spend now? Social problems..poverty, crime, these things congregate and breed and you've created generations of uneducated people that dont spend enough money to help the economy.

lets say money in schools and welfare payments are of equal importance on an economic scale...no money into schools is a problem...no money to people on welfare causes problems

thats why the governments invented this new thing called a budget, and they decide what are the proper ratios to dispense the money. The ratios that will leave the least amount of problems are the ones chosen.

And taxes isnt the only way to contribute to the economy...if a drug dealer spends the money he earns he reinvests it into the economy. By buying something, the store owner pays his clerk...both eat, if they have money left over they buy something, if enough money is left over they invest into corporations who use the money for R+D..which creates new products that people want to buy...its a cycle...these things are what drive the economy.

see how im trying to sound eductated here? its because i am...dont give me this "game over" bullcrap...its not a fight...everything ive said is based on fact..fact that every first-world country basis their economies off of, so there is no "game over".

[zach]

wlefare is a good place to start, but it has to be cut off after a few monthes.

[Kingskank]

im not going to argue about any of that...

i dont think anyone likes people sponging, and if there is no cut off, then it encourages people to abuse it.

but in terms of economics, i wasnt arguing, its proven fact that its not a waste.

thats all i have to contribute...i know about economics, i dont know enough about international welfare laws to contribute much to length or how much...stuff like that.

[WithStamin]

The majority of welfare needlessy burdens to economy. Tons of people who are on it just don't have the self-motivation to get a job. My dad was eligible for years for all sorts of government benefits, but he didn't take one. He got practically nothing from his parents. He lived in his professor's house doing work for him to pay for college. He eventually graduated with a doctorate and has a good job. That's what it takes to suceed: hard work. Anyone can do it, they just need to make the sacrifices, instead of having other people pay for you to do nothing.

[Kingskank]

grrr

it does not burden the society...at least not the majority, there is no fact behind that statement.

considering the unemployment rate..lets say 7%....7% of the people that want to work, cant find jobs...what makes you think everysingle person that is on welfare, if they were to want to work...because as you say...they dont...where would they get their jobs from?

i dont even want to continue that arguement, my fingers are starting to hurt and nobody is reading it objectively anyway... but if you think welfare is shameful, thats one thing..to say that all welfare money is a burden to society..thats just ignorance interms of your economics knowledge.

[Expert_Monk]

good argruments. I think that limited welfare is needed to help people get out of situations. But they need to get a job too. Money for disabled people who can't work is a different issue I think.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by Expert_Monk
good argruments. I think that limited welfare is needed to help people get out of situations. But they need to get a job too. Money for disabled people who can't work is a different issue I think.
There are plenty of jobs for the permanentaly disabled and workmans comp for the temporarily disabled. Also Social Security is available to disabled persons as well.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
workmans comp for the temporarily disabled. Also Social Security is available to disabled persons as well.

Those are both forms of welfare. Why arent you against those?

[WithStamin]

Becuase there's nothing you can do about being disabled. Being poor is just (a lot of the time) lazyness.

[yeat182]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
Mcdonalds doesn't pay enough to survive, if you have a family.


you shouldn't have a family in the first place if you can't afford to take care of them, get an education and wear a condom, then get a real job, and then make babies.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Becuase there's nothing you can do about being disabled. Being poor is just (a lot of the time) lazyness.

Poor does not equal lazy, sorry to brake it to ya.

[Expert_Monk]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
There are plenty of jobs for the permanentaly disabled and workmans comp for the temporarily disabled. Also Social Security is available to disabled persons as well.

Ok, I don't think you're arguing with me, but if you are, I never said there weren't. But now that you bring it up, I think the adequacy of these rersources is questionable.

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
Poor does not equal lazy, sorry to brake it to ya. True, but it has a heck of a lot to do with it.

[zach]

Originally posted by yeat182
you shouldn't have a family in the first place if you can't afford to take care of them, get an education and wear a condom, then get a real job, and then make babies.
People should think of that before the loose their jobs I guess

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by zach
People should think of that before the loose their jobs I guess People should live within their means... That probably means saving for a rainy day. If you are a skilled person, you can get a job within a reasonable time 99% of the time. Until then, your saving should tide you over. People who are living paycheck to paycheck probably shouldn't have kids anyway.

[yeat182]

exactly, if you're earning a 6 figure salary and lose your job, you don't need to work at mcdonalds, you obviously have marketable skills and can get another decent job, maybe not as lucrative, but one that will be able to support your family. if you start out by having a bunch of kids and never get an education and have no real skills when you lose your job, thats you're own damn fault.

[zach]

I don't know if you'e noticed, but the economy isn't exactly thriving now. jobs are hard to find, even for skilled workers

[WithStamin]

That's why people should have been saving during good times. The recession will end, and until then, your savings should tide you over.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by WithStamin
That's why people should have been saving during good times. The recession will end, and until then, your savings should tide you over.
And thats why we should drill in Alaska. Jobs.

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
And thats why we should drill in Alaska. Jobs. Exactly!

[zach]

The oil in alaska won't last very long. It may create some jobs for a short period of time, but what happens when it runs out?

Its alot harder to save money then you think. especialy when you have a family to support.

[WithStamin]

Then you shouldn't have a family that you can't afford... The government shouldn't protect people from their own stupidity.

[zach]

Then what is the role of the government?
They make laws about what drugs we can do to protect us from our stupidity. They make laws about haow fast we can drive to protect us form our own stupidity. Those are only 2 example of the government protecting us from our own stupidity

[WithStamin]

Ok, not protect us from our own stupidity. That was the wrong word. They shouldn't reward our own stupidity, as in "Free money if you don't work!"

[zach]

Its not free money for not working. It enogh money to help one get by untill they find work

[yeat182]

Originally posted by zach
Its not free money for not working. It enogh money to help one get by untill they find work


then explain how you can have a job and still get a welfare check...

[zach]

as far as I know that isn't supposed to happen and is abuse of the system. there are serouse consequenses for it in canada.

[yeat182]

there is almost no consequences for abusing the system in america, which i think is why there is such a debate about the issue, if we had more stringent rules and enforced them, then i don't think anyone would have a problem with helping people out and getting them on their feet again, but the way the system is now all we are doing is throwing our money away.

[NOFXdesendents5]

maybe the people capable of working should get a fucking job?:eek:

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
maybe the people capable of working should get a fucking job?:eek: So crazy it just might work!

[kidinthecorner]

Originally posted by WithStamin
So crazy it just might work!

W3rd. Tru dat. Holla. Fo shizzle. Like whoa. Dawg.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
maybe the people capable of working should get a fucking job?:eek:

I hate to brake it to ya, but there aren't always enough jobs to go around buddy.

[evil zach]

I was just about to say that. are you sure your not liberal?

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by evil zach
I was just about to say that. are you sure your not liberal?

Hey do i call you names, jerk, be nice!:eek:

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by evil zach
I was just about to say that. are you sure your not liberal?

Enough with the humor, i use to consider my self really conservative, i mean i use to help out with the republican party here in kansas, but as i've grown older my views have really changed and i now consider my self more of a moderate leaning towarrods the right. I've got alot of problems with both parties, With republicans i have a problem with the death penalty and the lack of pollution control, and others but im trying to type fast, With the democrates, i have a problem with ABORTION (but i think we have been other that one), corruption in gov, over taxition, oppression of minority through lies and lack of opportunity, and there stuck uped ness (i no thats not a word) they just all seem to think there smart then us the comman man and think they know whats best for us, and i personally dont think they do (great example of this is Hilary CLinton or Dauchal both scare the hell out of me.)

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
I hate to brake it to ya, but there aren't always enough jobs to go around buddy. Then the people who worked the hardest in school and got a good education (i.e. the people who deserve it) will get the jobs.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Then the people who worked the hardest in school and got a good education (i.e. the people who deserve it) will get the jobs.

Again no not always the world isn't as perfect as you might think it is.

[NOFXdesendents5]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
Again no not always the world isn't as perfect as you might think it is.

I sort of agree with what you are saying and like to add something.

The Constitution states that all men are created equal. This is completely true. Every person has the exact same oppurtunities in this great country to accomplish as much as the next guy. Sure, you may start out in different levels of culture (mansion, suburbia, ghetto) but if you use the things the government has set up for you: schools, and try harder than the other person, you will accomplish your goals. People that grow up in the city (usually minorties) consider the fact they are in the ghetto, and are in a school with a shitty reputation think they will never get out. The media doesnt help much, portraying blacks with the "rapper ghetto image". But that doesnt mean you cannot succeed. If you try in school and get good grades, you will go to college if you are exceptional and talented. Therefore, you decide your accomplishments, and if you try you succeed. It is your choices that affect your goddamn life! Not society's.

If you start think that school is a total waste of time, drop out, have a couple kids and such, then it is your fault when you have a shitty ass job, a shitty ass job, a drug addiction, 2 kids and your on welfare.

It is your own fault what you do.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by NOFXdesendents5
I sort of agree with what you are saying and like to add something.

The Constitution states that all men are created equal. This is completely true. Every person has the exact same oppurtunities in this great country to accomplish as much as the next guy. Sure, you may start out in different levels of culture (mansion, suburbia, ghetto) but if you use the things the government has set up for you: schools, and try harder than the other person, you will accomplish your goals. People that grow up in the city (usually minorties) consider the fact they are in the ghetto, and are in a school with a shitty reputation think they will never get out. The media doesnt help much, portraying blacks with the "rapper ghetto image". But that doesnt mean you cannot succeed. If you try in school and get good grades, you will go to college if you are exceptional and talented. Therefore, you decide your accomplishments, and if you try you succeed. It is your choices that affect your goddamn life! Not society's.

If you start think that school is a total waste of time, drop out, have a couple kids and such, then it is your fault when you have a shitty ass job, a shitty ass job, a drug addiction, 2 kids and your on welfare.

It is your own fault what you do.
Well said