Manny, Tejada, Lugo, Heilman, Benson - all in the same deal?

[LeftWideOpen]

"Multiple independent baseball sources have told GB that the Mets, Baltimore Orioles, Boston Red Sox and Tampa Bay Devil Rays are working on a four-team megadeal that would send -- eventually -- Miguel Tejada to the Red Sox, Kris Benson and Julio Lugo to the Orioles, Aaron Heilman and prospects to the Devil Rays, and Manny Ramirez to the Mets.

"We've been able to piece together some aspects of the deal, but they are subject to change as the teams continue to communicate with one other.

"Mets would send Heilman and (Kaz) Matsui (and $5 million) to Tampa Bay for Lugo. Then New York would send Lugo, Kris Benson, Brian Bannister and Victor Diaz to Baltimore for Tejada, and then send Tejada to the Red Sox for Manny Ramirez." -- 12.28.05, GothamBaseball.com Rumor Mill

This would be an insane deal.

[Talib Scottie]

The Mets are stocking up for real.

[mikeford]

dont trade manny

[looksthatkillbn]

wow. just wow. is it just me or is tampa bay getting a lovely deal there?

[Emopunkthrice]

baltimore is retarded if they do this.

[mat1419]

baltimore is retarded if they do this.
baltimore is retarded period...i'm not totally sold on the source of this info though

[bigmike]

i don't care what he says, you don't trade Manny Ramirez. You can't get equal value unless you're trading for Albert Pujols.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

i don't care what he says, you don't trade Manny Ramirez. You can't get equal value unless you're trading for Albert Pujols.
Tejada had a higher VORP and WARP3 than Manny last year. He plays good D at a tough position and would fit well in the 4 spot...all of this while being cheaper and younger. You do this, and you do it now. Use Wells and Arroyo/Clement to get a CF and LF and work on Roger (if you have the money).

Also, If this deal goes through, why wouldnt the Sox go for some cash back or some kind of prospect? They should be able to work something out.

[aminorthreat55]

baltimore is retarded period...i'm not totally sold on the source of this info though
Bingo.

[bigmike]

Tejada had a higher VORP and WARP3 than Manny last year. He plays good D at a tough position and would fit well in the 4 spot...all of this while being cheaper and younger. You do this, and you do it now. Use Wells and Arroyo/Clement to get a CF and LF and work on Roger (if you have the money).

Also, If this deal goes through, why wouldnt the Sox go for some cash back or some kind of prospect? They should be able to work something out.

so having the 5th most errors among all shortstops in the majors is good defense?

I can find some utility player to play defense.
I can't really find someone to hit 40/145 every year.

[Scott Weber]

so having the 5th most errors among all shortstops in the majors is good defense?

I can find some utility player to play defense.
I can't really find someone to hit 40/145 every year.
if you watch Tejada you know that he's got a cannon and makes outstanding plays other players couldn't at the posistion. Tejada can't exactly match Manny's production, but Manny actually costs Boston runs in the outfield. He really hurts boston with his glove.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

so having the 5th most errors among all shortstops in the majors is good defense?

I can find some utility player to play defense.
I can't really find someone to hit 40/145 every year.
errors are never a good way to judge someone. Manny only had 7 errors last year, but other defensive metrics (which take into account the range of a player) have manny at -25 to -40 runs. If I could find UZR I would post it. In 04, UZR (the best metric out there, I believe) ranked Tejada at +20 (do you want a link?). Also, Tejada has a higher VORP and WARP3...probably even RARP. There are plenty of OF we can trade for if we move manny. Oakland has a lot, We could get one in a Wells trade, try to get one in this Manny trade, or trade pitchers for OF. There are teams who need pitching, and we have some to spread. If you have a chance to get a younger, cheaper Tajada, you do it.

EDIT: fixed some small mistakes

[bigmike]

errors are never a good way to judge someone. Manny only had 7 errors last year, but other defensive metrics (which take into account the range of a player) have manny at -25 to -40 runs. If I could find UZR I would post it. In 04, UZR (the best metric out there, I believe) ranked Tejada at +20 (do you want a link?). Also, Tejada has a higher VORP and WARP3...probably even RARP. There are plenty of OF we can trade for with we move manny. Oakland has a lot, We could get on in a Wells trade, try to get one in this Manny trade, or trade pitchers for OF. There are teams who need pitching, and we have some to spread. If you have a chance to get a younger, cheaper Tajada, you do it.

by far the best argument i've heard for dumping manny.

and i would like a link, that's an interesting stat.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/articles/2005/09/28/

good read. The Tejada stat is about half way down. The guy who wrote the article came up with a UZR like stat because the person who did UZR stopped posting it for the public. His stat is RAA and if you read the paragraph under the shortstop example, you will see Tejada's UZR.

[mikeford]

Tejada had a higher VORP and WARP3 than Manny last year. He plays good D at a tough position and would fit well in the 4 spot...all of this while being cheaper and younger. You do this, and you do it now. Use Wells and Arroyo/Clement to get a CF and LF and work on Roger (if you have the money).

Also, If this deal goes through, why wouldnt the Sox go for some cash back or some kind of prospect? They should be able to work something out.

dude cmon

VORP and WARP3?

how about AVG, RBI and HR

you trade manny and youre downgrading in all of those.

[Scott Weber]

there's of course more to it than just stats as well. manny wants out of Boston, everyone knows he's really an aloof guy, if you've read anything on Baltimore you know that Tejada brings tons of energy to a team and he's a huge impact in the clubhouse. after last season's dissapointment, I really think Boston could use another leader out there.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

dude cmon

VORP and WARP3?

how about AVG, RBI and HR

you trade manny and youre downgrading in all of those.
VORP and WARP3 take into account all of those. They're mathematical formulas used to measure true value of a player. You may not subscribe to sabremetrics stats such as these, but I can tell you the Red Sox baseball operations department does.

RBI is a product of people getting on base. You don’t think Tejada would have more RBI in the Sox' offense?

[Trainsaw]

dont trade manny
he's going....going.....GONE!!

[bigmike]

VORP and WARP3 take into account all of those. They're mathematical formulas used to measure true value of a player. You may not subscribe to sabremetrics stats such as these, but I can tell you the Red Sox baseball operations department does.

RBI is a product of people getting on base. You don’t think Tejada would have more RBI in the Sox' offense?

yeah, i went to that link. and all that stuff's a little TOO hardcore for me. And I like stats.

[mikeford]

he's going....going.....GONE!!

i sincerely doubt it.

[Emopunkthrice]

Tejada is not going to go this off-season, maybe at the trade deadline or next year.

[mikeford]

tejada is gonna want out after this season, believe that.

still baltimore will garner a kings ransom for him and the sox aint giving them it.

[Emopunkthrice]

Michael Young=My number 1 AL shortstop going into this year.
Tejada is a pretty good guy, I think the Orioles will need him if they intend on doing any damage in the east.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

The Orioles will damage nothing in the East. They had their run early last year. They're set now for another 10 years.

[mikeford]

the orioles are so bad but they always quick our asses.

its stupid.