The Dangerous Summer/Thrice

[Colterj_22]

Anyone else not get what the big deal is about these guys?

[doppelganger]

the dangerous summer is amazing pop punk.
thrice is amazing in general, especially the new stuff.
/thread

[11:11]

You listen to Cobra Starship and Bring Me the Horizon. That explains it all.

[Colterj_22]

You listen to Cobra Starship and Bring Me the Horizon. That explains it all.

Dunno where you got Cobra Starship from... haha. I'm just saying i dont think Thrice/The Dangerous Summer are that good.

[11:11]

Dunno where you got Cobra Starship from... haha. I'm just saying i dont think Thrice/The Dangerous Summer are that good.
You had them listed in your "Favorite Artists" section.

[doppelganger]

You have them listed in your "Favorite Artists" section.
i didn't see it. meh. well this thread is pointless

[11:11]

i didn't see it. meh. well this thread is pointless
He probably took them out. Anyways, CIWWAF is still in there, so yes, it is pointless.

[x togepi x]

thrice is the epitome of bland music.

[Troggy]

thrice is the epitome of bland music.

All of it? I see what you are saying everything Vheissu and newer, but I don't think the ones before that were bland.

[x togepi x]

All of it? I see what you are saying everything Vheissu and newer, but I don't think the ones before that were bland.

Yeah, Vheissu and newer. Sorry, that's usually the stuff that gets hyped so I often forget about the earlier stuff.

[Troggy]

Yeah, Vheissu and newer. Sorry, that's usually the stuff that gets hyped so I often forget about the earlier stuff.

It's cool, there are only a few people on here who would agree with that. theguy77 is not one of them

[oddwithoutend]

Even Thrice admits that Vheissu and newer is all "sleepy" music, which is exactly what I've always said I didn't like about it.

[lonelysuperstar]

Everything Thrice has ever done is incredible. They're one of the most skilful and diverse bands of the post-hardcore genre. I agree with you about The Dangerous Summer though - don't see what the fuss is about there.

[x togepi x]

Everything Thrice has ever done is incredible. They're one of the most skilful and diverse bands of the post-hardcore genre. I agree with you about The Dangerous Summer though - don't see what the fuss is about there.

Thrice isn't a post-hardcore band. And yeah, they're really diverse, if you like bands that take a lot of genres and water them down, that is.

[lonelysuperstar]

Thrice isn't a post-hardcore band.
how would you describe them then? i think they do an excellent job of borrowing from numerous genres, so agree to disagree.

[doppelganger]

Even Thrice admits that Vheissu and newer is all "sleepy" music, which is exactly what I've always said I didn't like about it.
that's what i like about the new music ha.

[x togepi x]

how would you describe them then? i think they do an excellent job of borrowing from numerous genres, so agree to disagree.

i don't know how i'd describe them since i haven't cared about them since 2003. but they don't sound anything like fugazi or any other real post-hardcore band so they don't fit.

[lonelysuperstar]

i don't know how i'd describe them since i haven't cared about them since 2003. but they don't sound anything like fugazi or any other real post-hardcore band so they don't fit.
it's the closest term that can really describe them, although it shows how inadequate genre terms really are to describe cross-genre bands. it's a shame you stopped caring about them in 2003, their latest work is far superior to their old stuff, but it's natural that some people don't care for it. i personally think that vheissu is a masterpiece, but you don't have to agree.

[x togepi x]

it's the closest term that can really describe them, although it shows how inadequate genre terms really are to describe cross-genre bands. it's a shame you stopped caring about them in 2003, their latest work is far superior to their old stuff, but it's natural that some people don't care for it. i personally think that vheissu is a masterpiece, but you don't have to agree.

It's completely inaccurate if you actually know what post-hardcore is. they're closer to straight up rock and roll than post-hardcore.

[lonelysuperstar]

It's completely inaccurate if you actually know what post-hardcore is. they're closer to straight up rock and roll than post-hardcore.
correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought if you used "post" to prefix a genre, it was using elements of that genre to make a different sound. so for instance "post-punk" would be using elements of the punk genre to make something that's decidedly not punk. by that definition, thrice is very accurately post-hardcore.

[Troggy]

:popcorn:

[ThisIsNotDan]

another music forum discussion turns into an argument about what band is what genre. I am absolutely shocked.

and taking two AP-hyped bands and calling them out? edgy, bro! the cool dude scale is off the charts right now!

[lonelysuperstar]

haha i'm right - look at the wiki definition:

post-hardcore is a term for a broad constellation of groups who emerged from the hardcore punk scene, or took inspiration from hardcore, while concerning themselves with a wider palette of expression, closer to experimental rock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_rock)

this most definitely describes thrice.

[x togepi x]

haha i'm right - look at the wiki definition:

post-hardcore is a term for a broad constellation of groups who emerged from the hardcore punk scene, or took inspiration from hardcore, while concerning themselves with a wider palette of expression, closer to experimental rock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_rock)

this most definitely describes thrice.

1) wikipedia is not a good source for genres since dumb kids like you can edit it to say whatever you want.
2) thrice takes more inspiration from metal in their early years than real hardcore
3) there is nothing experimental about thrice.

I know, I wasn't educated about music by AP magazine and I don't like terribly bland musicians so my statements are going to seem completely strange to you.

[lonelysuperstar]

1) wikipedia is not a good source for genres since dumb kids like you can edit it to say whatever you want.
2) thrice takes more inspiration from metal in their early years than real hardcore
3) there is nothing experimental about thrice.

I know, I wasn't educated about music by AP magazine and I don't like terribly bland musicians so my statements are going to seem completely strange to you.
lol

1. wikipedia is not a good scholarly source, but it's great for getting a good, concise idea of a subject. i was merely just checking to see if my prior understanding of post-hardcore was correct, and it confirmed this. thrice is even mentioned on the page, as being one of the new wave of post-hardcore bands

2. thrice takes inspiration from both metal and hardcore

3 yes there is. the alchemy index was a very experimental project. i think it would be very accurate to call them "experimental rock".

4. good one - start insulting people, that always helps your argument.

[Burn That Shit]

Wikipeida isn't a reliable source. You can reference any dumb site on the internet (allmusic for example) to make genre claims.

[DejaNew]

You listen to Cobra Starship and Bring Me the Horizon. That explains it all.
Lol owned.

[batmannj]

Wikipedia is awful to use for anything more than really basic common sense type things.

That said I really enjoy Thrice, all of their music, and it's totally cool if someone feels different.

[x togepi x]

lol

1. wikipedia is not a good scholarly source, but it's great for getting a good, concise idea of a subject. i was merely just checking to see if my prior understanding of post-hardcore was correct, and it confirmed this. thrice is even mentioned on the page, as being one of the new wave of post-hardcore bands

It's completely wrong. Wiki is biased towards the perception of the mainstream. The reason your prior understanding is wrong is it's based purely one what the mainstream media claims post-hardcore is.

Your conception is wrong for many reasons. First, it misunderstands the definition of the prefix "post-" which means going beyond/taking something in a new direction. Thrice isn't taking hardcore in a new direction, nor do they "go beyond it" because they were never a part of it to begin with. To say that because they take elements of hardcore (which i don't think they do, they're more metal based as i said before, i'd like to see the hardcore bands they're influenced by), then they're a post-hardcore band is completely wrong. Nickleback, Hinder and basically every other alt. rock radio band are heavily based on the loud/soft/loud formula that was popularized by 80s indie rock. Would that make them indie or post-indie? No, of course not. Merely borrowing parts of a genre doesn't mean you would be post-that genre.

Secondly, it ignores the very context that Thrice was created in. They come from that Jersey scene that was never really well defined genrewise. To say they're post-hardcore robs that specific scene of its originality and historical place. Post-hardcore developed way before the Jersey stuff, and it developed in a completely different direction. Thrice's scene is unique and influential in its own way. To call it post-hardcore is therefore not respecting the influence/uniqueness of that kind of music. I'd think a fan of them would want people to realize that scene's unique place in the musical canon and not reduce them needlessly to an already created genre.

Third and finally, it ignores the entire function of a genre, which is to classify bands that sound like each other. Thrice doesn't sound like any of the real post-hardcore bands. Early on, they sounded like that Jersey scene, but that Jersey scene doesn't sound like real post-hardcore either. To suggest that they fit within that genre because you read it on wiki, some kid told you they were, or you saw it in a magazine is destroying the whole point of genres as a classification system. This is why genre debates even happen and why people don't know how to classify music properly. You don't put bands together in genres that lack styllistic similarity.

2. thrice takes inspiration from both metal and hardcore

I'd like to see some parts of a thrice song that resemble fugazi or drive like jehu then. I mean, if you're so right, you'd be able to show me how the similarities. That's how genres work, it's not based on what people say they are, it's based on the sound. Thrice does not sound like these bands.

3 yes there is. the alchemy index was a very experimental project. i think it would be very accurate to call them "experimental rock".

Rehashing already played out genres is not "experimental at all". Experimental music takes music in a new direction. Thrice just made 4 EPs in established genres. They're just showing how diverse their musicianship is, but nowhere do they actually experiment and create anything that hasn't been done by other bands before.

4. good one - start insulting people, that always helps your argument.

You could not have a terrible taste in music, which would negate the insults.

[lonelysuperstar]

I'd say your understanding of genre is wrong in that you don't acknowledge how genres change over time. You say my understanding is based on what the mainstream media's perception of "post-hardcore" is, but you forget that popular usage of a word can change its definition. You want all post-harcore bands to sound like Fugazi, which isn't fair. It's like asking all folk to sound like Bob Dylan. But this thread is turning pointless because who cares anyway? I think the categorisation of music into genres is an unproductive activity. The only thing more unproductive is to argue about which bands fit into which genre.

[doppelganger]

It's completely wrong. Wiki is biased towards the perception of the mainstream. The reason your prior understanding is wrong is it's based purely one what the mainstream media claims post-hardcore is.

Your conception is wrong for many reasons. First, it misunderstands the definition of the prefix "post-" which means going beyond/taking something in a new direction. Thrice isn't taking hardcore in a new direction, nor do they "go beyond it" because they were never a part of it to begin with. To say that because they take elements of hardcore (which i don't think they do, they're more metal based as i said before, i'd like to see the hardcore bands they're influenced by), then they're a post-hardcore band is completely wrong. Nickleback, Hinder and basically every other alt. rock radio band are heavily based on the loud/soft/loud formula that was popularized by 80s indie rock. Would that make them indie or post-indie? No, of course not. Merely borrowing parts of a genre doesn't mean you would be post-that genre.

Secondly, it ignores the very context that Thrice was created in. They come from that Jersey scene that was never really well defined genrewise. To say they're post-hardcore robs that specific scene of its originality and historical place. Post-hardcore developed way before the Jersey stuff, and it developed in a completely different direction. Thrice's scene is unique and influential in its own way. To call it post-hardcore is therefore not respecting the influence/uniqueness of that kind of music. I'd think a fan of them would want people to realize that scene's unique place in the musical canon and not reduce them needlessly to an already created genre.

Third and finally, it ignores the entire function of a genre, which is to classify bands that sound like each other. Thrice doesn't sound like any of the real post-hardcore bands. Early on, they sounded like that Jersey scene, but that Jersey scene doesn't sound like real post-hardcore either. To suggest that they fit within that genre because you read it on wiki, some kid told you they were, or you saw it in a magazine is destroying the whole point of genres as a classification system. This is why genre debates even happen and why people don't know how to classify music properly. You don't put bands together in genres that lack styllistic similarity.



I'd like to see some parts of a thrice song that resemble fugazi or drive like jehu then. I mean, if you're so right, you'd be able to show me how the similarities. That's how genres work, it's not based on what people say they are, it's based on the sound. Thrice does not sound like these bands.



Rehashing already played out genres is not "experimental at all". Experimental music takes music in a new direction. Thrice just made 4 EPs in established genres. They're just showing how diverse their musicianship is, but nowhere do they actually experiment and create anything that hasn't been done by other bands before.



You could not have a terrible taste in music, which would negate the insults.

agree with everything. i love thrice though.

[xJesusFreakx]

Thrice is my favorite band, but I don't see them as revolutionaries, and the hype that Vheissu gets annoys me a lot. They're my favorite band because I love Dustin Kensrue's lyrics and vocals, and because they pull off multiple genres rather well (so that there is almost always at least one Thrice song that I'm in the mood to hear).

[Anton Djamoos]

Thrice is great musically and especially lyrically.

The Dangerous Summer is good pop-punk.

[x togepi x]

t's awesome how you didn't actually respond to any of my arguments. why exactly is your conception right when you can't even defend it?

I'd say your understanding of genre is wrong in that you don't acknowledge how genres change over time.

Genres do change over time, but not in the asinine way you said you did. First off, you completely ignored my Nickleback example. Your conceptions of "genre" would make Nickleback an Indie band. Do you think they are?

Secondly, genres do change in the sense that they have their own internal evolution. I know you think you totally got me on this point, but i already pointed this out in the post you didn't actually respond to. Post-hardcore's evolution is completely different than the kind of music Thrice is. it evolved into bands like these arms are snakes/kill sadie. those don't sound like thrice.

You say my understanding is based on what the mainstream media's perception of "post-hardcore" is, but you forget that popular usage of a word can change its definition.

This is a gross misunderstanding of linguistics, as genres are a form of technical jargon. Techincal jargon doesn't change based on popular perception. as a classification system, genres can't change based on popular perception. Doing so would undermine the internal logic of the classification system which would render it meaningless.

I would even contend that the mainstream way of talking about music isn't about classifying it at all because most people don't care about genres.

You want all post-harcore bands to sound like Fugazi, which isn't fair.

No, I want all post-hardcore bands to have some sort of connection to the sound that Fugazi was a part of. That's what a genre is. All punk bands have some sort of connection to the punk sound, etc. It's totally fair because that's how the classification system works.

It's like asking all folk to sound like Bob Dylan.

this is a very poor analogy since 1) bob dylan's early stuff, which is what's rightfully considered folk DOES sound like the genre of folk and 2) bob dylan is a musician with his own musical evolution, nobody really thinks all of his music is folk, he rejected that and worked in different genres.

But this thread is turning pointless because who cares anyway? I think the categorisation of music into genres is an unproductive activity. The only thing more unproductive is to argue about which bands fit into which genre.

You obviously cared enough to whine when I said thrice wasn't a post-hardcore band. Now you're backing out because I can prove everyone of your claims wrong.

[jfork]

The Dangerous Summer is bland music, if there ever was bland music. Thrice is not bad, but no where near being good.

[Anton Djamoos]

The Dangerous Summer is bland music, if there ever was bland music. Thrice is not bad, but no where near being good.
What is good?

[x togepi x]

What is good?

SLAYER.

[Anton Djamoos]

SLAYER.
Eh.

[x togepi x]

Eh.

i know, played out joke.

[doppelganger]

The Dangerous Summer is bland music, if there ever was bland music. Thrice is not bad, but no where near being good.
what bands do you like?

[jfork]

What is good?

Well I mean, they're not as GREAT as everybody lauds them to be.

[jfork]

Thrice is my favorite band, but I don't see them as revolutionaries, and the hype that Vheissu gets annoys me a lot. They're my favorite band because I love Dustin Kensrue's lyrics and vocals, and because they pull off multiple genres rather well (so that there is almost always at least one Thrice song that I'm in the mood to hear).

Vheissu's their best record because it was solid musically. TAI, especially that pretentiously failing second half was proof that they could indeed not pull of multiple genres rather well.

[xJesusFreakx]

Vheissu's their best record because it was solid musically. TAI, especially that pretentiously failing second half was proof that they could indeed not pull of multiple genres rather well.

I like Fire because it captures that element perfectly. Even without the lyrics (which certainly lack quite a bit of subtlety, lol), I can't listen to those songs and not imagine fire. Also, the running theme of revolution is pretty cool and fits with the element rather easily.

I don't like Water as much as most TAI-worshippers, but there are some quality tracks on there. I'm in love with the lyrics to "Digital Sea," and the chorus of "Open Water" is also sweet.

Air has hands down the worst flow of the EPs, but the individual songs are excellent. "Broken Lungs" is gorgeous, "Silver Wings" has some of my favorite lyrics, "As the Crow Flies" is a lovely lullaby, and I just love "A Song for Milly Michaelson."

The production of Earth is enough to make me love it, but the songs are also pretty nice. "Moving Mountains" and "Come All You Weary" have great Scripture-based lyrics, and I also really like "Digging My Own Grave." "Child of Dust" is my favorite album closer ever.

[doppelganger]

Vheissu's their best record because it was solid musically. TAI, especially that pretentiously failing second half was proof that they could indeed not pull of multiple genres rather well.
i completely disagree. air and earth have the longest lasting values for me. vheissu is good but in all honesty, i thought the lyrics in TAI were way better.

[XSTAYGOLDX]

I love the Dangerous Summer since their "if only i could keep you alive ep" but

Thirce is on a whole new level, both musically and lyrically theyre on a level with ACB, MWY brand New, Manchester Orchestra,
If thrice wanted they could be cashing in all these young kids writing another illusions to safey but the band as a whole decided to grow as musicians and people.

[zubinmoosa]

I love both bands to death. Fantastic, fantastic bands.

[Colterj_22]

He probably took them out. Anyways, CIWWAF is still in there, so yes, it is pointless.
No no no. If i was gonna take out bands i thought i'd get shit for, ciwwaf would've been removed, as well as a few other. I liked their first full length. Cobra is not my kind of music at all. Too much electric bull shit. Plus Gabe outside Midtown...no.

[Colterj_22]

Thrice is great musically and especially lyrically.

The Dangerous Summer is good pop-punk.

Anton, glad to see you here.
But, all the songs i've listened to dont sound pop-punk at all to me... maybe i'm not listening to the right tracks. I dont know.

[kemichels]

I'm confused to why these two bands are mentioned in the same thread.

[Colterj_22]

I'm confused to why these two bands are mentioned in the same thread.

I mentioned them because everyone on here seems to be in love with them, and i dont see what the big deal w/ them is.

[doppelganger]

Anton, glad to see you here.
But, all the songs i've listened to dont sound pop-punk at all to me... maybe i'm not listening to the right tracks. I dont know.
the dangerous summer is mature pop punk, not an automatic-pre-teen-girl-loving pop punk band.

[Colterj_22]

the dangerous summer is mature pop punk, not an automatic-pre-teen-girl-loving pop punk band.

Even calling it "mature" it doesnt sound pop-punk to me. I think the only reason i dont like them is i dont like the vocals. Idk what it is but i cant get into them. I've listened and listened and it just isnt doing it for me.

[AmongthechosenX]

Thrice is porobably one of the most legit bands out there. The fact that theyve been together for over ten years without a single member change and about 10 albums means a ton in the music industry.

[CityOfLust]

Thrice is porobably one of the most legit bands out there. The fact that theyve been together for over ten years without a single member change and about 10 albums means a ton in the music industry.

Nothing about their music though, right?

[devzap516]

Thrice probably consists of four of the most talented musicians out there. They haven't become "boring" or "sleepy" they've simply progressed and matured as a band. They're new stuff is different but it's not worse, in fact I think I like it better. Thrice is awesome and if you don't like them it's probably because you don't have a very mature music taste. So just keep listening to CIWWAF and ATL.

The Dangerous Summer is also ridiculously talented and they play like a mature style of pop punk. I love both these bands