I Don't Think Many Kids Understand AutoTune Anyways

[Jason Tate]

One of the Fall Out Boy (http://www.absolutepunk.net/falloutboy) 'facts' up on their website (they rotate throughout their pages) states "that no auto-tune is used on the lead vocals on fob records." Hopefully this puts some of the comments I've seen lately, to rest.

[rcrook]

what is auto-tune?

[itsjdiggity]

boom by yow

[sundaysetsashes]

what is auto-tune?


tate's sentiments exactly

[djUbilla]

That's actually really cool. I'd much rather hear an honest voice than an out-of-tune voice. At least the singer's being for real.

[jfb392]

lawlz it probably pissed off Jenoah.

[IcedOpethBlind]

My heart is on my sleeve...

[yutsmcgee]

i'm sorry, but that's just not true. pretty much every commercially released album these days utilizes antares. not to mention the fact that i can hear it in their songs, especially dance dance, on the chorus.

[jfb392]

i'm sorry, but that's just not true. pretty much every commercially released album these days utilizes antares. not to mention the fact that i can hear it in their songs, especially dance dance, on the chorus.You try singing it before you make that decision if they are using auto-tune or not.
I'm pretty sure it's not auto-tune.

[yutsmcgee]

You try singing it before you make that decision if they are using auto-tune or not.
I'm pretty sure it's not auto-tune.

i've been in full-time bands since i was 13, and my dad has been a producer for 25 years. they definitely use some slight pitch correction. nothing major like hilary duff or some shit like that. but i'm pretty sure fob does some graphic pitch correction.

[SuperJoe]

right. like the same way that ashlee simpson wasn't lip-synching on SNL.

[irthesteve]

i've been in full-time bands since i was 13, and my dad has been a producer for 25 years. they definitely use some slight pitch correction. nothing major like hilary duff or some shit like that. but i'm pretty sure fob does some graphic pitch correction.
that stuff isnt "auto-tune"

[Jason Tate]

i've been in full-time bands since i was 13, and my dad has been a producer for 25 years. they definitely use some slight pitch correction. nothing major like hilary duff or some shit like that. but i'm pretty sure fob does some graphic pitch correction.
LEAD vocals. The backups are possibly pitch-corrected.

http://www.antarestech.com/products/auto-tune4.shtml

Pro-Tools plugin, for those interested.
Most common pitch problems can be corrected by Auto-Tune 4's Automatic Mode. Automatic Mode instantaneously detects the pitch of the input, identifies the closest pitch in a user-specified scale (including minor, major, chromatic and 26 historical and microtonal scales), and corrects the input pitch to match the scale pitch.

[jfb392]

that stuff isnt "auto-tune"Exactly.

[getupkid53]

im the most popular guy in the world. I said it... Hell, I even put it on my web page, it must be true.

[muzik4lyf5000]

The Effects on dance dance and many others are just that. FX not auto tuning or pitch adjustment plugins.
If your confused about auto-tuning or want to know how britney spears can sing check out the program melodyne. There are a few great videos that can show how new software is enhancing vocalists. The software is great for if your recording a lengthy vocal line and only a few words are off pitch.

check it out here
http://www.celemony.com/cms/

[formyownheart]

melodyne is amazing i wont lie about that

[Tony Pascarella]

Some of this shit could make me sing well.

[ACA]

I've got perfect pitch! Damn I sing well!

Pro-Tools Logic cut copy paste..

-ACA

[yutsmcgee]

that stuff isnt "auto-tune"

but it's the same exact logic and end result. whether the computer does it for you, or the engineer manipulates the waves manually, it's still pitch correction.

[mewithcoldplay]

If that is so, why doesn't he sound like that live?

[A picasso blue]

1) why does it matter?


2) why use this 'auto tune' anyway? unless you're a terrible singer who needs to fake a good voice

[yutsmcgee]

If that is so, why doesn't he sound like that live?

that's the point. because they do use some pitch correction in the studio, he doesn't sound like that live. don't get me wrong, he has an amazing voice. but even mariah carey albums utilize pitch correction. it's not like pitch correction is evil.

[lassise]

what's the point in everyone saying omg they use pitch correction... if he does - it doesn't matter you still bought/downloaded his album off limewire. we've all seen them live - he hits the notes. and he has infinate tries in the studio to hit the note. if he didnt naturally do it... so be it. if he did... good for him.

what i don't get is the pete wentz signature bass, doesn't he just play root notes?

[jfb392]

what's the point in everyone saying omg they use pitch correction... if he does - it doesn't matter you still bought/downloaded his album off limewire. we've all seen them live - he hits the notes. and he has infinate tries in the studio to hit the note. if he didnt naturally do it... so be it. if he did... good for him.

what i don't get is the pete wentz signature bass, doesn't he just play root notes?Yeah, it kind of sad.
Although the thing is sexy.

[FourStarters]

If only they'd come out with "auto-enunciate", we'd be on to something.

[Punkdc]

I've got perfect pitch! Damn I sing well!

Pro-Tools Logic cut copy paste..

-ACA

Damn you, I wanted to make the Mc Lars refrance

[KarateExplosion]

how many thousand takes have to be done to get patrick's vocals even remotely intelligible if they don't auto-tune?

[OveriseFan]

If only they'd come out with "auto-enunciate", we'd be on to something.

hahahahaha.

[Sloppy Coleby]

yeah thats just crazy for them to even say that. Almost every small producer or small uses auto tune. They are diggin themselves a hole

[Rohan Kohli]

Melodyne looks amazing.

Oh, and Sloppy Coleby--they said LEAD vocals.

[GAD_guy]

oh great. i'm sorry we don't know the exact "technical" studio term for what they use. the point isn't WHICH tool they use, it's that studio tools are used. listen to patrick's voice live and then listen to it on cd. it's pretty fucking obvious that some sort of correction has taken place. most of us just let it go because it's pretty rare for an artist NOT to use it these days. hell i even hear it on the new against me! record.

[JOJOFACE]

Haha. They don't Auto-Tune, kids. They use a bit of a "vocoder" on Dance, Dance. That's not Auto-Tune. <3

[thesego211]

Haha. They don't Auto-Tune, kids. They use a bit of a "vocoder" on Dance, Dance. That's not Auto-Tune. <3
don't call other people in this thread "kids" you jackass...

[the blues]

don't call other people in this thread "kids" you jackass...

dont call other people in this thread a "jackass" you asshole

[preppyak]

dont call other people in this thread a "jackass" you asshole
hahaha. Well played

[myARMISTICE]

he also doubles quite a bit of his lead vocal, thats why it sounds so processed in parts like hmmmmm.....NFG

[Newairrecords]

If that is so, why doesn't he sound like that live?

The reason he doesnt sound like that live is because he's in the studio, he doesnt have to worry about playing the song on guitar at the same time. he also strains his voice by singing for an hour.

[JOJOFACE]

don't call other people in this thread "kids" you jackass... HEY.


HEY.


It's a habit I adopted from the MC Bat Commander. Let it rest.

[Seans9]

bull shit. show me one major label release without ANY auto-tune. auto-tune is not a bad thing though, people need to realize this.

[fsasatticus]

they still suck regardless

[cjprocknroll]

I don't buy it. I am assuming that the band wasn't in Tom Lord Alge's studio when he mixed a couple of the tracks on the record, so they probably don't know one way or another if auto tune was applied. In case you didn't know, auto tune is generally applied after the vocal tracks are recorded during the final mix (although you can do it in real time and I have known producers who do it this way, however, it offers you less flexibility at the end). Their producer/engineer, Neal Avron, has definately used auto tune on other recordings he has done in the past including Yellowcard, New Found Glory, SR-71, etc. so it would make sense for him to us it on this recording as well. There is nothing wrong with using auto tune as it can fill out a vocal track and ensure that the record will appeal to a commercial audience. Neal is getting points for their record so I doubt he would let anything go that isn't completely flawless. With that being said, even a great vocal take these days doesn't sound AMAZING to a commerical audience without auto tune because we expect perfection from recordings on the radio.

[waggy]

say what you will about fob, but patrick is one of the few "scene" singers out there that actually has some pipes on him. when i saw him sing with gym class heroes last spring i was shocked by how good he sounded.

[normitron]

One of the Fall Out Boy (http://www.absolutepunk.net/falloutboy) 'facts' up on their website (they rotate throughout their pages) states "that no auto-tune is used on the lead vocals on fob records." Hopefully this puts some of the comments I've seen lately, to rest.

wow, theyre liars. when their PRODUCER tells me that he used auto tune I'd tend to believe him over what they post of their website. Too bad you cant backup hearsay. oh well.

[preppyak]

they still suck regardless
ah, I understand now. Thank you for showing me the light :shake:

[marchfaster]

oh good, well im glad its an unbiased source.

congratulations tate, this should definetly put some of the comments lately to rest....FALL OUT BOY SAYS THEY DONT AUTO TUNE. at least it came from a FACT SITE right?!?!

[preppyak]

Too bad you cant backup hearsay. oh well.
You realize that, so why did you bother to say it? I don't know if you are lying or just really stupid.

[preppyak]

oh good, well im glad its an unbiased source.

congratulations tate, this should definetly put some of the comments lately to rest....FALL OUT BOY SAYS THEY DONT AUTO TUNE. at least it came from a FACT SITE right?!?!

Will your life not be complete until you know the truth, because the kid a few posts back has some hearsay that may complete your life.

Why do people care so much, I don't love FOB for their live performance anyway, it's mediocre compared to some other bands I love.

[infiniter]

I have a somewhat hard time believing that they do nothing, even if they don't use auto-tune specifically. I, too, find the chorus of "Dance, Dance" somewhat hard to believe, if only because there's something distinctly unnatural about his voice through that part. Also, when performing live (I know, it's different), he doesn't even <em>approach</em> the chorus as recorded.

I know it's possible, even, to build a simple bandpass filter that will perform a sort of haphazard tuning (I just did the other day, actually.) If one was willing to really work at it, it would be more than possible to build an in-line circuit to adjust a signal frequency slightly.

So sure, maybe they aren't using autotune, but that means little...

[Ryan Imhof]

LEAD vocals. The backups are possibly pitch-corrected.

http://www.antarestech.com/products/auto-tune4.shtml

Pro-Tools plugin, for those interested.
Most common pitch problems can be corrected by Auto-Tune 4's Automatic Mode. Automatic Mode instantaneously detects the pitch of the input, identifies the closest pitch in a user-specified scale (including minor, major, chromatic and 26 historical and microtonal scales), and corrects the input pitch to match the scale pitch.
hahahaha Pro Tools, thats what my friends and i used to record my rap cd the other day.. i love that program.

[Ryan Imhof]

oh good, well im glad its an unbiased source.

congratulations tate, this should definetly put some of the comments lately to rest....FALL OUT BOY SAYS THEY DONT AUTO TUNE. at least it came from a FACT SITE right?!?!
i see your point but calm down there buddy

[NITI]

For those of you who are experienced with autotune, I'm sure you have found that sometimes your pre-autotune vocal can have the kind of Cher-like effect when transitioning between pitches. For those of you who haven't used autotune, this synth-like sound is typical of autotune (when using a high retune setting) and other pitch correction algorithms, but does not necessarily suggest that pitch correction was used. The reason why you don't hear this effect as much when you're singing at home in the shower is that vocal doubling, effects processing, transduction within the microphone and just the simple audio to digital conversion in a studio can take away the organic characteristics typical to human voices. (For those who aren't tech-savvy: you're converting your voice to electricity in the microphone and then to 1's and 0's in the audio to digital converter so that the computer can read it. Then you're doing the whole process backwards to listen.) If you have never experienced vocal recording, then you probably have never experienced the many phenomenons associated with it; if you have experienced vocal recording, you may have not experienced the phenomenon or your ear might not be trained well enough to hear it. Patrick's voice can sound cher-like for a multitude of reasons and if you make a record with a lot of vocal takes, I'm sure you will find the same.

As for Patrick's voice live, I agree that he sounds nothing like he does on the records. His voice usually does not have that "cher-like" characteristic, but I'm sure it happens more frequently than all of us are aware of. Even if you went to every show, at 120 decibels, your ear is well beyond distorting and to say that you can't hear things in detail is an understatement. In addition to the fact that our ears aren't built to handle typical rock concert volume levels, there are more than a few reasons why each part of a live band can sound nothing like their record. When you make a record, you can easily do 500 takes per vocal track and have 10 or 20 vocal tracks. Perfection is much easier because you can do it piece by piece and often in pop music, perfection is the goal. With this comes a budget - one that is impossible to recreate every night at every show. First of all, you have multimilliondollar rooms available to you. To acoustically treat a room the size of a small dorm room, you can easily spend over a million dollars. No room has perfect acoustics and once you leave the comfort of a treated studio, everything is likely to sound a lot worse unless your band frequents Cargenie Hall. In addition, Patrick records at least two vocals for most parts - in a chorus he will likely have 2 to 4 recordings of the lead vocal going at the same time and many more in the background. This can not be created live unless you risk Ashlee Simpson SNL moments.

For those of you not familiar with recording technology, when you record the same part twice and play it at the same time, it not only makes the recorded part sound stronger and fuller, but masks mistakes (such as pitch problems.) Having another singer double your own part live never has the same effect as "doubling" your own part (and the same effect isn't desired always.) Then factor in the ease and availibility of your typical vocal signal processing (compression, delay, reverb, etc.) that might not be available at the same quality and quantity in live situtations (since many studios can spend over 100,000 on one effect unit and easily spend a half million dollars on a mixing board) and the integrity of your audio signal in many steps than the studio equivalent. Then factor in the fact that the live mixing engineer is probably not nearly as good as the mixing engineer in the studio (from hearing damage and the fact that the top mixing engineers - Bob Clearmountain, George Massenburg, etc. - really don't do live work. You might see live engineers making stupid mistakes like wrapping their cables into coils (creates more noise) and improperly caring for equipment in ways that does not happen as much in professional studios. Then factor in phase problems, electrical noise from running cables over long distances in live situations, noise from other equipment and the fact that every other instrument as well as the crowd are being picked up by the microphone Patrick is singing into (even if it's a highly direction microphone) and you are absolutely, positively never going to have the same perfection as in the studio. But then again, that's the magic of live shows - they're not supposed to be perfect. I understand that a lot of you know autotune, melodyne, akai pitch correction and every other pitch correction DSP out there, but there are a lot of misconceptions that I hope I have cleared up. After three years of reading this board and not registering an account, I felt it necessary with some of the incorrect things being posted. However, lets all ignore my whole explanation and continue to trash on the band because they sell a lot of records and get more attention than we do - that's the logical and fair thing to do.

[NITI]

For the record, I'm not much of a fan of the band anymore (I used to be a big one) so I hope you'll recognize that my claim isn't as biased as it might have been six months ago when I was more into them and the whole scene around them. Let the obnoxious replies begin.

[preppyak]

For those of you who are experienced with autotune, I'm sure you have found that sometimes your pre-autotune vocal can have the kind of Cher-like effect when transitioning between pitches. For those of you who haven't used autotune, this synth-like sound is typical of autotune (when using a high retune setting) and other pitch correction algorithms, but does not necessarily suggest that pitch correction was used. The reason why you don't hear this effect as much when you're singing at home in the shower is that vocal doubling, effects processing, transduction within the microphone and just the simple audio to digital conversion in a studio can take away the organic characteristics typical to human voices. (For those who aren't tech-savvy: you're converting your voice to electricity in the microphone and then to 1's and 0's in the audio to digital converter so that the computer can read it. Then you're doing the whole process backwards to listen.) If you have never experienced vocal recording, then you probably have never experienced the many phenomenons associated with it; if you have experienced vocal recording, you may have not experienced the phenomenon or your ear might not be trained well enough to hear it. Patrick's voice can sound cher-like for a multitude of reasons and if you make a record with a lot of vocal takes, I'm sure you will find the same.

As for Patrick's voice live, I agree that he sounds nothing like he does on the records. His voice usually does not have that "cher-like" characteristic, but I'm sure it happens more frequently than all of us are aware of. Even if you went to every show, at 120 decibels, your ear is well beyond distorting and to say that you can't hear things in detail is an understatement. In addition to the fact that our ears aren't built to handle typical rock concert volume levels, there are more than a few reasons why each part of a live band can sound nothing like their record. When you make a record, you can easily do 500 takes per vocal track and have 10 or 20 vocal tracks. Perfection is much easier because you can do it piece by piece and often in pop music, perfection is the goal. With this comes a budget - one that is impossible to recreate every night at every show. First of all, you have multimilliondollar rooms available to you. To acoustically treat a room the size of a small dorm room, you can easily spend over a million dollars. No room has perfect acoustics and once you leave the comfort of a treated studio, everything is likely to sound a lot worse unless your band frequents Cargenie Hall. In addition, Patrick records at least two vocals for most parts - in a chorus he will likely have 2 to 4 recordings of the lead vocal going at the same time and many more in the background. This can not be created live unless you risk Ashlee Simpson SNL moments.

For those of you not familiar with recording technology, when you record the same part twice and play it at the same time, it not only makes the recorded part sound stronger and fuller, but masks mistakes (such as pitch problems.) Having another singer double your own part live never has the same effect as "doubling" your own part (and the same effect isn't desired always.) Then factor in the ease and availibility of your typical vocal signal processing (compression, delay, reverb, etc.) that might not be available at the same quality and quantity in live situtations (since many studios can spend over 100,000 on one effect unit and easily spend a half million dollars on a mixing board) and the integrity of your audio signal in many steps than the studio equivalent. Then factor in the fact that the live mixing engineer is probably not nearly as good as the mixing engineer in the studio (from hearing damage and the fact that the top mixing engineers - Bob Clearmountain, George Massenburg, etc. - really don't do live work. You might see live engineers making stupid mistakes like wrapping their cables into coils (creates more noise) and improperly caring for equipment in ways that does not happen as much in professional studios. Then factor in phase problems, electrical noise from running cables over long distances in live situations, noise from other equipment and the fact that every other instrument as well as the crowd are being picked up by the microphone Patrick is singing into (even if it's a highly direction microphone) and you are absolutely, positively never going to have the same perfection as in the studio. But then again, that's the magic of live shows - they're not supposed to be perfect. I understand that a lot of you know autotune, melodyne, akai pitch correction and every other pitch correction DSP out there, but there are a lot of misconceptions that I hope I have cleared up. After three years of reading this board and not registering an account, I felt it necessary with some of the incorrect things being posted. However, lets all ignore my whole explanation and continue to trash on the band because they sell a lot of records and get more attention than we do - that's the logical and fair thing to do.
Anyone wanna summarize this, because I don't feel like reading it all.

[NITI]

It's already summarized. I have a couple of books laying around if you're interested in the extended version with special features.

[infiniter]

Anyone wanna summarize this, because I don't feel like reading it all.
He said that it's hard to actually tell whether or not someone is using autotune or other digital manipulation just by listening to a record. Then, he said that performing and recording are different in much the same way that a stage play and a movie are different (my own metaphor). Then, he discusses assorted vagaries of recording tech... you can read that one, it's complicated.

[patrickhowell]

If Patrick used Auto-Tune in the studio, why wouldn't he use it live?

It really bothers me to see Patrick being accused of this, because he is one of the few talented singers in his genre...


p.s. I keep hearing that Fall Out Boy is awful live, but they've been really solid every time I've seen them...
Are they usually as sloppy as they were on Conan? Because I've seen five incredible Fall Out Boy shows, and I've seen the video of that one bad performace...

[apex]

commas, are fun, everywhere.

[preppyak]

It's already summarized. I have a couple of books laying around if you're interested in the extended version with special features.
damn. Well I'm glad I'm not that interested. I already have enough Shakespeare to read before classes start again.

[infiniter]

If Patrick used Auto-Tune in the studio, why wouldn't he use it live?

It really bothers me to see Patrick being accused of this, because he is one of the few talented singers in his genre...


p.s. I keep hearing that Fall Out Boy is awful live, but they've been really solid every time I've seen them...
Are they usually as sloppy as they were on Conan? Because I've seen five incredible Fall Out Boy shows, and I've seen the video of that one bad performace...
Auto-tune is a post-processing effect... it doesn't actually implement in real-time. It also creates "artifacts" in the music that must be edited out... ruins bends and vibrato and so forth.

I thought FOB was good when I saw them live... I actually much preferred the raw energy of their live show to their album, which I've always found just a little too well-chewed.

[NITI]

If Patrick used Auto-Tune in the studio, why wouldn't he use it live?


p.s. I keep hearing that Fall Out Boy is awful live, but they've been really solid every time I've seen them...

Are they usually as sloppy as they were on Conan?

I've seen five incredible Fall Out Boy shows, and I've seen the video of that one bad performace...


Autotune has two functions: automatic and graphical. Graphical lets you look at every part of the waveform and set the pitch correction. This takes some time and can not be done live...by a human. However, the computer can automatically round to the nearest pitch in automatic mode. In this mode, you encounter the most problems of people sounding like cher. It can round you to the wrong note if you're too far off and sounds a lot less organic than the graphical mode. The other pitch correction algorithms have a similar problem.

[NITI]

Auto-tune is a post-processing effect... it doesn't actually implement in real-time. It also creates "artifacts" in the music that must be edited out... ruins bends and vibrato and so forth.

I thought FOB was good when I saw them live... I actually much preferred the raw energy of their live show to their album, which I've always found just a little too well-chewed.

That's a good point about the vibrato. Autotune destroys vibrato and Patrick loves his vibrato. The artifacts part is true too but the artifacts are in the studio too. Artifacts of some degree are inevitable in digital signal processing.

[TheNumberOneFan]

Autotune has two functions: automatic and graphical. Graphical lets you look at every part of the waveform and set the pitch correction. This takes some time and can not be done live...by a human. However, the computer can automatically round to the nearest pitch in automatic mode. In this mode, you encounter the most problems of people sounding like cher. It can round you to the wrong note if you're too far off and sounds a lot less organic than the graphical mode. The other pitch correction algorithms have a similar problem.

^^^smart

[kallok]

I'm not a big fan of over produced music. Sure a little editing is fine but there is a fine line. When you sound completely different from the recordings compared to playing live, that is where you will have problems, in my opinion.

[SvenNevs]

Auto-tune is a post-processing effect... it doesn't actually implement in real-time. It also creates "artifacts" in the music that must be edited out... ruins bends and vibrato and so forth.

I thought FOB was good when I saw them live... I actually much preferred the raw energy of their live show to their album, which I've always found just a little too well-chewed.

Actually, there is a hardware auto tune too, and it can be used in real time, and for live vocals. Blink 182 used to use it live, for sure.

[Michael Ryan]

people who are this smart as far as the techs of music shouldnt be wasting their time talking about fall out boy. we should be trying to figure out if Muse are robots and how is it humanly possible to be such a good band live.

[patrickhowell]

Auto-tune is a post-processing effect... it doesn't actually implement in real-time. It also creates "artifacts" in the music that must be edited out... ruins bends and vibrato and so forth.

I thought FOB was good when I saw them live... I actually much preferred the raw energy of their live show to their album, which I've always found just a little too well-chewed.


Antares makes rack-mount Auto-Tune units that are intended specfically for use in live situations:

AVP-1 Antares Vocal Producer (http://www.antarestech.com/products/avp.shtml)

ATR-1a Auto-Tune Intonation Processor (http://www.antarestech.com/products/atr1a.shtml)

These units not only perform live pitch-correction, but they also allow for pre-programmed songs, harmonies, microphone emulation, etc.

[Geisert8Band]

That is the heftiest claim I've ever heard. Especially after hearing the records...and the live performances...and the artifacts that autotune leaves behind. If this is the case, and I won't deny it...his voice is funky enough to warrant it...then I'd hate to have been the engineer on the records during the sessions. It must've taken forever.

[NITI]

Actually, there is a hardware auto tune too, and it can be used in real time, and for live vocals. Blink 182 used to use it live, for sure.

The hardware autotune has the same pitch-quantization problems as the "automatic" function within the software version.

[infiniter]

people who are this smart as far as the techs of music shouldnt be wasting their time talking about fall out boy. we should be trying to figure out if Muse are robots and how is it humanly possible to be such a good band live.
Muse is good because their music is written to be played onstage... and their bass player may in fact be God. That too.

[NITI]

That is the heftiest claim I've ever heard. Especially after hearing the records...and the live performances...and the artifacts that autotune leaves behind. If this is the case, and I won't deny it...his voice is funky enough to warrant it...then I'd hate to have been the engineer on the records during the sessions. It must've taken forever.

As I said before, artifcats are inherent in any digital signal processing. Just because there are artifacts does not suggest that autotune left them there, even if autotune was used.

[TheNumberOneFan]

As I said before, artifcats are inherent in any digital signal processing. Just because there are artifacts does not suggest that autotune left them there, even if autotune was used.

are you a recording tech?

[patrickhowell]

are you a recording tech?

I am.

[NITI]

are you a recording tech?

Student

[infiniter]

I don't know how much it really matters... autotune is just one effect of hundreds. It sounds cheap because it makes vocal ability somewhat less important, but it's just more electronics between the singer/guitar and the speakers/recording equipment.

For me, it's always been about the raw emotion. Putting more copper between you and the audience is, as a rule, contrary to the communication that should be happening. But enough philosophy...

[infiniter]

are you a recording tech?
Computer engineer... I just build a lot of circuits and play with Pro Tools in my spare time.

[TheNumberOneFan]

I am.

fer real?

tell me about it, i want to be that, i want to go to college to do it.

[Billy]

i like how you click the bands name and it goes to another sub page on ap then you gotta find their website on their subpage and go to the bands website by then you forget why you actually clicked the link to what you thought would be their website.

[irthesteve]

but it's the same exact logic and end result. whether the computer does it for you, or the engineer manipulates the waves manually, it's still pitch correction.
you're wrong

[TheNumberOneFan]

Student

well, its good to see you around, now, after all these years of viewing.

we need someone as intelligent as you around here, for sure

[infiniter]

you're wrong
Expand...

[NITI]

I don't know how much it really matters... autotune is just one effect of hundreds. It sounds cheap because it makes vocal ability somewhat less important, but it's just more electronics between the singer/guitar and the speakers/recording equipment.

For me, it's always been about the raw emotion. Putting more copper between you and the audience is, as a rule, contrary to the communication that should be happening. But enough philosophy...

I don't know if it's your job or mine to say what "should be happening." But for the sake of argument, some would argue that it allows a different means of communication - energy and raw emotion, rather than raw ability. To have both is an ideal that gets more rare with every new piece of technology. To lobby for change is one thing but to be pissed off distracts you from enjoying the qualities that technology lets flourish.

[marchfaster]

i see your point but calm down there buddy
haha, i was just excited.

[patrickhowell]

fer real?

tell me about it, i want to be that, i want to go to college to do it.


I just work for a small studio... I've been doing free-lance work for about 5 or 6 years. I haven't been to school for it or anything, I've just learned from experience. I don't record big-name bands or anything, but I make enough to pay the bills.

[NITI]

you're wrong

He's very wrong....and people are smarter than computers. I wish more people would accept that. Computers are just faster.

[marchfaster]

commas, are fun, everywhere.
ahahahahahaa i think i love you.

[infiniter]

I don't know if it's your job or mine to say what "should be happening." But for the sake of argument, some would argue that it allows a different means of communication - energy and raw emotion, rather than raw ability. To have both is an ideal that gets more rare with every new piece of technology. To lobby for change is one thing but to be pissed off distracts you from enjoying the qualities that technology lets flourish.
Oh, don't get me wrong... I still like the album well enough. I just would rather have a live recording with a little less processing.

It's true that the processing can actually be a musician's primary mode of expression, as in the case of electronically driven groups like The Postal Service or Fischerspooner, and that's not bad.

When a band tries to sound just like a more-talented version of itself, though, they run the risk of losing a lot of soul in translation. Just my opinion... won't stop Hilary Duff (sp?) from selling records.

[TheNumberOneFan]

I just work for a small studio... I've been doing free-lance work for about 5 or 6 years. I haven't been to school for it or anything, I've just learned from experience. I don't record big-name bands or anything, but I make enough to pay the bills.

thats still cool :p

[NITI]

fer real?

tell me about it, i want to be that, i want to go to college to do it.

Check out the programs at NYU, Miami and Berklee. Those are the most competitive and the three are very different from each other. People also like Full Sail a lot (it has the highest school rating on ratemyprofessor.com) but it's much shorter. NYU has two programs - The Clive Davis School of Recorded Music and the other is the Music Technology program. McGill has a graduate program where George Massenburg went. A lot of the star engineers now didn't go to school but the playing field is different now; everyone and their mother has an Mbox and Pro Tools. I wouldn't argue that you need school to be at the top of the game, but it's worth looking at. I think if you work your ass of in school or just apprenticing at studios, you'll get what you want if you work harder than everyone else.

[The Revisionist]

Who the fuck cares if they used auto tune or not? I wouldn't be surprised nor care if they did... this is a pop record, and pop records are supposed to sound "perfect". If you don't use it on such a release, it's not a very smart thing to do.

[NITI]

Oh, don't get me wrong... I still like the album well enough. I just would rather have a live recording with a little less processing.

It's true that the processing can actually be a musician's primary mode of expression, as in the case of electronically driven groups like The Postal Service or Fischerspooner, and that's not bad.

When a band tries to sound just like a more-talented version of itself, though, they run the risk of losing a lot of soul in translation. Just my opinion... won't stop Hilary Duff (sp?) from selling records.

That's probably a big reason why live cd's made there way into the market.

[frankpistol]

well then he should start using auto tune

[NITI]

Who the fuck cares if they used auto tune or not? I wouldn't be surprised nor care if they did... this is a pop record, and pop records are supposed to sound "perfect". If you don't use it on such a release, it's not a very smart thing to do.

It wouldn't be stupid if the singer has the ability to perform up to par in a studio situation, but that doesn't suggest they have the same ability on stage. I would argue it's even a very bad idea to use it on a singer like Patrick. Autotune destroys vibrato and that's part of his style. Would you rather hear the style of the artist or the style of an algorithm.

Pop records aren't "supposed to sound" like anything. They're supposed to sound like what makes the artist happy and if that doesn't make you happy as well, you're not in any way being forced to buy their album.

[TheNumberOneFan]

Check out the programs at NYU, Miami and Berklee. Those are the most competitive and the three are very different from each other. People also like Full Sail a lot (it has the highest school rating on ratemyprofessor.com) but it's much shorter. NYU has two programs - The Clive Davis School of Recorded Music and the other is the Music Technology program. McGill has a graduate program where George Massenburg went. A lot of the star engineers now didn't go to school but the playing field is different now; everyone and their mother has an Mbox and Pro Tools. I wouldn't argue that you need school to be at the top of the game, but it's worth looking at. I think if you work your ass of in school or just apprenticing at studios, you'll get what you want if you work harder than everyone else.

thank you.

really, i will check those out right now.

[NITI]

thank you.

really, i will check those out right now.

Get an internship at a small studio, read a book or two about recording technology (I can recommend a couple) and then you'll be in a good place to pick the best way for you to learn the craft.

[albatross]

This is a lie. Niel Avron would never allow a band to escape him without proper tuned vocals... and nobody sings completely in tune. I've heard the autotune on both records... its drastic! So either the band doesnt know jack, or they're lying. Either way its not a bad thing, we've all heard them sing live and should be greatful they tuned up for the record.

[AbeLurkin]

i didnt read all 93 comments...so im not sure if someone touched base on this...

auto tune is not necessary for a guy who has a least a bit of singing talent (if not a lot...patrick sings 'correctly') ...they probably do about 10 takes per line on major label releases.

live shows/touring take a toll on ones body. to think he'll sound like the record every night of the week is foolish.

[NITI]

This is a lie. Niel Avron would never allow a band to escape him without proper tuned vocals... and nobody sings completely in tune. I've heard the autotune on both records... its drastic! So either the band doesnt know jack, or they're lying. Either way its not a bad thing, we've all heard them sing live and should be greatful they tuned up for the record.

"Properly tuned" vocals does not suggest that they would be perfectly in tune. If they were perfectly in tune, they would sound like a synthesizer. Read the previous post to find out why. I don't enjoy them much live either.

[TheNumberOneFan]

Get an internship at a small studio, read a book or two about recording technology (I can recommend a couple) and then you'll be in a good place to pick the best way for you to learn the craft.

yeah i'd be interested in those books if you could. Reading is great.

[NITI]

This is a lie. Niel Avron would never allow a band to escape him without proper tuned vocals... and nobody sings completely in tune. I've heard the autotune on both records... its drastic! So either the band doesnt know jack, or they're lying. Either way its not a bad thing, we've all heard them sing live and should be greatful they tuned up for the record.

For the record, it's "Neal" with an "a" and while we're clearing things up, "John Feldmann" has two n's, not one.

[Ryan Imhof]

haha, i was just excited.
kay. all this yelling is hurting me earzz!

where can i stab myself in the ears

[NITI]

yeah i'd be interested in those books if you could. Reading is great.

"Sound and recording: an Introduction" is a nice way to start. It's rare to understand it during the first read but you'll want to read it a second time and a third, etc. because new things will make a lot of sense each time. If you learn a little about basic electricity ("Teach yourself electricity and electronics" by Stan Gibilisco is good for that) then you'll probably be ahead of your peers. For Pro Tools, the "Pro Tools Power" books are good. I would recommend playing around in Logic, Nuendo, Digital Performer and anything else your friends might have or you can use in a lab of sorts.

[Ryan Imhof]

well then he should start using auto tune
brilliant. <--- did i spell that right?

[patrickhowell]

thank you.

really, i will check those out right now.


Also, try saving up a few hundred dollars to build yourself a small recording setup and try recording your (or your friends') band. Experience is a great way to learn.

Also, there is a plethora of information available online on the subject. The internet is an amazing resource if you can make yourself do the research.

[NITI]

yeah i'd be interested in those books if you could. Reading is great.

And if you're going really basic to start, the "For Dummies" books are awesome to start things out. I believe they still have one for sound recording. You can probably get a used one cheap on half.com

[NITI]

Also, try saving up a few hundred dollars to build yourself a small recording setup and try recording your (or your friends') band. Experience is a great way to learn.

Also, there is a plethora of information available online on the subject. The internet is an amazing resource if you can make yourself do the research.

Agreed. Just keep in mind that everyone who has a couple of hundred bucks can get an Mbox with Pro Tools. If you want to work on projects you love and have the creative and artistic freedom that comes with financial success, you'll have to make sure you're always working harder than them. That is becoming more and more the case in the audio engineering world since prosumer equipment is so accessible.

[NITI]

Then again, only take advice from someone who has acommplished what you want to accomplish and I haven't yet, so depend more on advice from older people.

[TheNumberOneFan]

"Sound and recording: an Introduction" is a nice way to start. It's rare to understand it during the first read but you'll want to read it a second time and a third, etc. because new things will make a lot of sense each time. If you learn a little about basic electricity ("Teach yourself electricity and electronics" by Stan Gibilisco is good for that) then you'll probably be ahead of your peers. For Pro Tools, the "Pro Tools Power" books are good. I would recommend playing around in Logic, Nuendo, Digital Performer and anything else your friends might have or you can use in a lab of sorts.


alright thanks a whole lot, i'll check all of these out.

also i just checked out "Tisch" (at NYU) and it seems very prestige

[TheNumberOneFan]

Also, try saving up a few hundred dollars to build yourself a small recording setup and try recording your (or your friends') band. Experience is a great way to learn.

Also, there is a plethora of information available online on the subject. The internet is an amazing resource if you can make yourself do the research.

yeah i'm starting to do that and it's a lot of fun. I love messing around and whatnot.

[NITI]

I hope some misconceptions were cleared up. I'm out.

[VAYA]

people who are this smart as far as the techs of music shouldnt be wasting their time talking about fall out boy. we should be trying to figure out if Muse are robots and how is it humanly possible to be such a good band live.

that is freaking AWESOME

[TheNumberOneFan]

I hope some misconceptions were cleared up. I'm out.


thanks again for everything, see you around.

[Rohan Kohli]

thanks again for everything, see you around.

So I guess I'll see you, I'll see you around.

[TheNumberOneFan]

So I guess I'll see you, I'll see you around.

lol..

don't make fun of me AAHHHH

[dontfront]

HAHAHAHA THIS IS THE FUNNIEST JOKE I'VE EVER HEARD!!!!!!!!!!!!

If they didn't use Auto-tune on the lead vocals then I'm seriously the Queen of England.

I'm sure they didn't use it EVERYWHERE. But NO WAY did they not use it on "From Underneathe the Cork Tree".

i've been in full-time bands since i was 13, and my dad has been a producer for 25 years. they definitely use some slight pitch correction. nothing major like hilary duff or some shit like that. but i'm pretty sure fob does some graphic pitch correction.

This guy is totally right. And for all those people who say "Thats not auto-tune" then your being lame.
It doesn't take much auto tune to make a singer sound wayyy better. Auto-tune is Auto-tune I know cuz I use Antares all the time.

Hahah Fall Out Boy might not know it, but when they left the studio, the producer probably just went in to do the auto-tune work. On big production stuff like their latest cd, the band members aren't usually even in the process of fine tuning small things like that. Thats why the producers like Neal Avron get paid the big bucks...

ps. I just happen to know a friend who happens to have "perfect-pitch" and his case is very extreme and gets really upset when people sing even a little off. I'm talking like a difference of someone singing an A at 442 and him knowing that its sharp because the real A (concert pitch) is at 440 Hz.

He's backing me on this too... hes saying "its too fake to be real".

pps. Its not a sin to use Auto-tune. And obviously when one can use auto-tune the right way, one can make it seemless. And just to let you know... Auto-tune Does Not work on someone who CANNOT SING. So when you hear someone like Hilarry Duff sining, it might have taken her a million takes, but she actually sang her parts Close Enough for the Auto-tune to correct it. I know cuz I've tried it. If you sing totally off and then try to correct it to some certain melody it sounds retarded. Imagine "Cher" X 30.

Ok yeah and maybe I'm wrong. There ARE singers out there who are just incredible and who are just helluh good. Freddie Mercury, Stevie Wonder, Bono, etc etc, but I just gotta say. I've seen them live and vocals off of "From Underneathe the Cork Tree" do not sound perfect to put it nicely haha.

If someone has the original and Final Pro Tools files and close-ups of the plug-ins showing no antares on the console... then I'll say I was wrong, but jeez no way...

ppps. I didn't really read the other posts other than the first page... so sorry if I'm repeating ish.

(I think thats the longest post I've ever made... wow sweet)

[ArmorForZzZzZ]

I always assumed an auto-tune was use during the intro to Grand Theft Autumn. It seems most noticeable when he hits the note for "boy". I'm not sure though...any thoughts?

[Michael Ryan]

fall out boy should use auto-tune on their bass live, that kid cant play bass or EQ for shit. yeah

[Rohan Kohli]

fall out boy should use auto-tune on their bass live, that kid cant play bass or EQ for shit. yeah

Why would you want to use auto-tune if the EQ isn't sounding right? And anyways, blame his techies.

I swear, some of you people just try to find something to bitch about.

[TheNumberOneFan]

ps. I just happen to know a friend who happens to have "perfect-pitch" and his case is very extreme and gets really upset when people sing even a little off. I'm talking like a difference of someone singing an A at 442 and him knowing that its sharp because the real A (concert pitch) is at 440 Hz.

His "case" of perfect pitch is "very extreme?"

Do you mean that his ABILITY of perfect pitch is FINE-TUNED? Contrary to popular belief, perfect pitch is not so uncommon and it is most definitely not limited to people who have been, so called, "born with it."

And if he (1) has the ability to determine 2 hertz difference between pitches, then that is amazing, and (2) is really that anal about things sounding good, well then, that's really too bad.

[Amplifried]

Anyone wanna summarize this, because I don't feel like reading it all.

1) People care way too much about this.
2) Everyone should go listen to Coheed, because at least Claudio has bitchin' hair.
3) Claudio probably uses pitch-correction, and I'm damn proud of it!

[snowtires]

every major label release uses auto-tune to some extent. period. they're douche bags if they think they didn't, because no label would let a record be released without it. maybe they left the studio without it on, but it was put on at some point. i'm sure there's nothing on the level of britney spears, but there's 100% absolutely no way that fall out boy's vocals haven't had pitch correction.

it's been said in this thread, but if you know what pitch correction sounds like, if you've been around a recording studio long enough, you can spot auto-tuning a mile away. every single song played on mtv for the past ten years has had auto-tuning. even people who are known for being crazy singers, like mariah and christina aguilera, use auto-tune. steven tyler has perfect pitch and all of aerosmith's albums from 1990 on in have autotune, maybe even before that.

you can also tell when someone HASN'T used auto-tune. listen to a frank sinatra record and then listen to fall out boy. frankie's 5000 times a better singer than the dude from fall out boy, but miraculously the guy from fall out boy sings more in tune than frank. and that's where you've gotta call bullshit.

but all of that aside, a good friend of mine works for island/def jam, and he was at the studio when my band was recording. we didn't use straight-up auto tuning (because we did an all analog recording, with all outboard effects and the didn't have any pitch correction stuff on hand), but the engineer still used some pitch correction techniques, like a slight chorus effect to hide any slightly 'off' notes. this was also put on there without consulting the band (i'm the singer and i was kind of bummed when i heard the recording, because i could tell that their was an effect on my voice and i knew right away why it was there), which is somewhat common practice for things such as this; singers tend to get offended when you tell them they can't sing perfectly in tune. but that's how the human voice is designed, it wavers here and there.

anyway, while we were listening to the finished product, he commented that he can't think of an album released by island in the past five years that didn't have auto-tune. he even went so far as to say, 'shit, the killers and fall out boy wouldn't have any fans without auto-tune.' i am not making this up. fall out boy lied, straight up. either that or they are totally batshit clueless.

...also, 99% of the people posting in this thread have absolutely no clue what auto-tune is.

[sethstaubs]

its a lot easier to sing in a studio playing no instruments and hearing yourself perfectly than singing in front of a couple hundred kids and playing guitar... and doing that night after night. I believe they use no auto tune and i dont care if you dont.

[snowtires]

If Patrick used Auto-Tune in the studio, why wouldn't he use it live?

It really bothers me to see Patrick being accused of this, because he is one of the few talented singers in his genre...


p.s. I keep hearing that Fall Out Boy is awful live, but they've been really solid every time I've seen them...
Are they usually as sloppy as they were on Conan? Because I've seen five incredible Fall Out Boy shows, and I've seen the video of that one bad performace...

auto-tune doesn't work like that. the technology isn't advanced enough to fix a live performance. well, without making the singer sound like a robot, that is. that's why people like ashlee simpson sing to a backing track as opposed to having their voice auto-tuned live.

[TheNumberOneFan]

its a lot easier to sing in a studio playing no instruments and hearing yourself perfectly than singing in front of a couple hundred kids and playing guitar... and doing that night after night. I believe they use no auto tune and i dont care if you dont.

dude.. you might be my only Green Bay buddy on this site.. WHATS UP MAN!!!!!!!!

[yutsmcgee]

you're wrong

You are obviously a clueless person. Pitch Correction is pitch correction, no matter how you achieve it. Graphically or automatically, your perfecting pitch. You're just plain ignorant.

[Colin Farrell]

im sorry, i absolutely love fall out boy, but i fidn that very hard to believe. listen to the dance dance demo on their purvolume site then listen to the actual dance dance song off fuct and you will know what im talkinga bout

[sethstaubs]

dude.. you might be my only Green Bay buddy on this site.. WHATS UP MAN!!!!!!!!

ha, not much man, i never post on this site but im here all the time. its cool to see someone else from up here. Im actually from De Pere, but no one knows where that is so I say Green Bay on my thing.

[phtmatt8]

if any of you saw the kroq performance you'd see that he can sing just as good live.

[TheNumberOneFan]

ha, not much man, i never post on this site but im here all the time. its cool to see someone else from up here. Im actually from De Pere, but no one knows where that is so I say Green Bay on my thing.

haha... I'm actually from Bellvue... so you've got me beat on population, for sure.

yeah, actually there aren't even that many Wisconsin people on here. One from madison that i know of, a few from milwaukee, i think one from Two Rivers?? Basically we suck here, haha.

[yutsmcgee]

auto-tune doesn't work like that. the technology isn't advanced enough to fix a live performance. well, without making the singer sound like a robot, that is. that's why people like ashlee simpson sing to a backing track as opposed to having their voice auto-tuned live.

wrong. you can us an antares live, but all it can do is round up or down. like rounding 1.6 to 2, or 1.4 to 1, it makes very rough estimations, and can change a note completely, making it worse than before. because of this, it is used seldomly. nevertheless, it is still used live in certain circumstances. it can be done without making the person sound like a robot, as long is the singer is a somewhat talented singer. people like aslee simpson have no hope, because it would make her sound like a robot.

[vanssocalsk8er]

I DON't KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!!

[TheNumberOneFan]

ow my head^

[snowtires]

wrong. you can us an antares live, but all it can do is round up or down. like rounding 1.6 to 2, or 1.4 to 1, it makes very rough estimations, and can change a note completely, making it worse than before. because of this, it is used seldomly. nevertheless, it is still used live in certain circumstances. it can be done without making the person sound like a robot, as long is the singer is a somewhat talented singer. people like aslee simpson have no hope, because it would make her sound like a robot.

maybe i wasn't clear. it can be used, sure, but it's too unpredictable to use live. or maybe too predictable would be the better way to put it. the singer either has to have perfect pitch already so the autotune only serves to firm up their pitch, or they have to have it so they can't hear their affected voice coming back through their monitors in order for it to even come close to helping. some times good singers sing high notes a little flat and low notes a little sharp. if they had autotune on, there would be a posibility that the high notes would get rounded to the note below and the low notes to the note above. and if the song changed keys, well then there's a whole mess of either programming or having a roadie switch the key manually and that's something that most people would rather just avoid by learning how to sing.

most singers don't have perfect pitch, they have relative pitch, which means they can recall certain pitches because they say, 'oh, well i know ____ and it starts in f, so here's an f' etc, but it also means that they can sing pretty closely in tune to what a band is playing, without flipping out like a bitch with perfect pitch would, because the band is a 1/4 step flat, as a whole. some singers hear their voice coming through the floor wedges and adjust their pitch to that (which doesn't really help all that much, seeing as the note has already been sung out of tune by the time they hear it in the wedges), and some of them adjust in their heads (the correct way to sing), based on what the band is playing. if the autotune is even slightly whacked, it would be a disaster.

if the person is a decent enough singer, just being in a live setting with the din of the audience and live guitars/drums will hide the slight imperfections that auto-tune is used to correct. but, for the shitty singer who NEEDS autotune, they will sound like a robot, hence my comment 'it makes people sound like robots' is still true.

p.s. dude, when you've graduated from college with a degree in music production, you go right ahead and tell people they're wrong. until then, zip it.

[hangten]

thats bullshit. no matter WHAT, all indie bands use auto-tune, and if they say they don't they're either lying. or they didnt use it while in the studio, the producer used it in the editing process. if you think a producer that big is going to let an album out of his studio less than perfect, you're out of your mind

[PlunketChris]

My guess is that his "Dance Dance" is on one track, which he recorded once, and was placed at all the points that he says "Dance Dance" then the other chorus lines were recorded at a different time, and placed wherever he does them.. chances are, due to the industries need to be "perfect," and wanting every chorus/repeat to sound exactly the same.. he actually only sang the chorus once, utilizing two seperate tracks (plus doubling vocals etc, all those tricks too, i'm sure).

I buy that there's no auto-tune, but that doesnt necessarily mean he sang it as it's recorded.

I think that made sense. Either way, he pulls that chorus off better than i had expected he would when they do it live, it's not exactly an easy melody to sing.

[snowtires]

thats bullshit. no matter WHAT, all indie bands use auto-tune, and if they say they don't they're either lying. or they didnt use it while in the studio, the producer used it in the editing process. if you think a producer that big is going to let an album out of his studio less than perfect, you're out of your mind

i wouldn't consider fall out boy an indie band. typically indie bands have to be on indie labels, island is a major. also, denali did not use autotune on their first album. not like anyone knows or remembers them (i mean, they did break up, what, a year ago? that's long enough for the scene kids to forget a band who isn't the refused), but they didn't and i know that for a fact. i mean, without even knowing anyone on the 'inside,' you can tell, because she sings out of tune a decent amount. so the blanket statement that all indie bands use auto-tune, no matter what, is false.

[Amplifried]

LOUD NOISES!

[Zac Hobbs]

they can not use auto-tune in the studio all they want, but that doesnt change the fact that every time I've seen them play live, his vocals are all over the place.

I mean, it takes talent to do that stuff, and I cant say i could do it. But, it just sucks to hear stuff on a record that the band cant reproduce live.

[NITI]

Some ridiculous claims have been made since we hit the 100th post on this. I suggest people read my first post on the subject for an explanation why Patrick may not be using autotune. It is very possible he is using autotune, but we'll probably never find out. My guess is that he isn't, again, because his vibrato is very present. Anyone who has used autotune before knows that it messes up vibrato and the function to add vibrato digitally within autotune is not well-developed yet.

[youareallfreaks]

people in this thread just hate his freedom

[TheLifeMelodic]

auto tune or not the dude can sing.

[bikescene]

oh great. i'm sorry we don't know the exact "technical" studio term for what they use. the point isn't WHICH tool they use, it's that studio tools are used. listen to patrick's voice live and then listen to it on cd. it's pretty fucking obvious that some sort of correction has taken place. most of us just let it go because it's pretty rare for an artist NOT to use it these days. hell i even hear it on the new against me! record.

well said my man.

[DroppedUrPocket]

people in this thread just hate his freedom
Always holdin' a brotha down.

Respek!

[DroppedUrPocket]

LOUD NOISES!

FUCK. You beat me to it...and I didn't even see it...I just posted it randomly.

Well played...

[theredline]

if all that singing is honest then why do they suck so bad live?

[theredline]

auto tune or not the dude can sing.

If he uses autotune then he probably CAN'T sing.

[dontsneeze]

patrick can sing. that's for sure. and there's probably some auto tune on FUCT. and for everyone saying the chorus on "dance, dance" sounds so produced, he's singing in falsetto for a little bit. i don't think anyone's mentioned anything about that yet.

oh yeah, and at the madison show, pete said that in the next couple months they were gonna record a video for "a little less sixteen candles, a little more touch me" and that it was gonna have a horror theme, with monsters. was gonna submit that before, but didn't have a computer for awhile.

[NevinFoundGlory]

fall out boy sucks fat cock.

[cjprocknroll]

I have heard and watched a really good singer track in a studio who uses as much, if not more vibrato than Patrick. After the tracking was done, the engineer applied autotune to the track to fix a couple of minor things here and there. It may slightly diminish the effect of the vibrato a little bit (most people would never notice it), but it doesn't completely destroy it like you say it does. If you simply run auto tune as a plug in after the vocal track is finished and make sure that the settings are not extreme, then you won't screw up the vibrato and it will help the overall balance of the vocal track. The bottom line is that the vibrato was still in tact while auto tune was used on the track. It all depends on the settings you use and how good the singer is. If he/she is a good singer, you take time with the vocals, etc., auto tune can still be used to enhance the sound of the vocal track and not destroy the vibrato. Also, as I said in an earlier post, it is very possible that Tom Lord Alge used autotune when mixing a couple of songs on the record. As far as I know, it is not common practice for the band to be in his South Beach studio when he mixes so they would have no idea.

On a side note, I have also heard of many cases where a drummer who can't play to a click or doesn't come up with great parts, can be replaced by a session drummer. Sometimes the band members know about it, sometimes they dont, it just depends on the situation. I do know that Josh Freese has been called in to studios late at night to record drums on a record after the band leaves and they never know.

Basically Fall Out Boy can say what they want, but they probably don't know for sure if it was used or not. It is very possible that Neal Avron told them he wqasn't using it and then he simply applied it when mixing.

[TheUntitled]

Does anyone really give that much of shit about it to sit here and bitch back and forth?

If he does? Who cares. You still either bought it or you hate them.

But, like alot of people did, it's a stretch in logic with regards to recording to assume, nothing was used.

But this will get 300 replies non the less.

[DroppedUrPocket]

Does anyone really give that much of shit about it to sit here and bitch back and forth?

If he does? Who cares. You still either bought it or you hate them.

But, like alot of people did, it's a stretch in logic with regards to recording to assume, nothing was used.

But this will get 300 replies non the less.

Welcome to a controversial FOB thread.

[The Revisionist]

Pop records aren't "supposed to sound" like anything. They're supposed to sound like what makes the artist happy and if that doesn't make you happy as well, you're not in any way being forced to buy their album.Of course the artist has to be happy with it, but they also have to sound like what makes the record label happy as well, and if you're going to be releasing a pop album with a lot of notes that aren't being hit and are causing dissonance that will turn people off to buying an album, I would be very surprised if the label doesn't ask for some sort of correction to that.

[Manervous]

He sings out of tune in the lead vocal at the end of "Our Lawyers..." Why would anyone leave that in? And, if you listen to the chorus of "Dance Dance" he's out of tune. On the CHORUS! Give me a break. This band probably sucks, but at very least the dude can sing.

[baton]

they pretty much maybe just use some effects, that's cool for me, i like his voice and that's all i need to know

[btotallyintense]

hahaha.
thats a good one.
complete lie.
no record put out by Island Records, that is going to get such a huge push and marketing behind it isnt going to be 100% perfect.
of course they used auto-tune.
any record of that size is going to be auto-tuned.
and its fine, who cares.

i love the record by the way.

-bradley

[SellOuts]

it is almost impossible to make auto-tune sound good when singing falsetto. Since patrick DOES sing falsetto in the Dance Dance chorus, there are at least some parts with no autotune on FUCT.

All i know is that the "cher effect" might be the coolest vocal effect around so sometimes bands actually do it on purpose (panic and cartel)

[patrickhowell]

it is almost impossible to make auto-tune sound good when singing falsetto. Since patrick DOES sing falsetto in the Dance Dance chorus, there are at least some parts with no autotune on FUCT.

All i know is that the "cher effect" might be the coolest vocal effect around so sometimes bands actually do it on purpose (panic and cartel)


For the record the "Cher Effect" is called Vocoder, and I still don't understand why she is getting any credit for it.

This effect was invented in the 1930s, and Cher didn't release "Believe" until 1998.

[XPrettyXWasteX]

If that is so, why doesn't he sound like that live?
auto-tune or not, singing live is different in so many ways than recording in a studio.

[SellOuts]

For the record the "Cher Effect" is called Vocoder, and I still don't understand why she is getting any credit for it.

This effect was invented in the 1930s, and Cher didn't release "Believe" until 1998.

Those sound like fighting words!

[yutsmcgee]

(i mean, they did break up, what, a year ago? that's long enough for the scene kids to forget a band who isn't the refused)

It's Refused you dumbass, not The Refused.

P.S. You're not nearly as intelligent as you think yourself to be.

[patrickhowell]

Those sound like fighting words!

That wasn't directed only towards you, the phrase "Cher Effect" has been used a lot throughout this thread. You were just the most recent person to use it.




p.s. those were fighting words

[SellOuts]

That wasn't directed only towards you, the phrase "Cher Effect" has been used a lot throughout this thread. You were just the most recent person to use it.




p.s. those were fighting words

Sweet, fighting words are awesome!

[snowtires]

It's Refused you dumbass, not The Refused.

P.S. You're not nearly as intelligent as you think yourself to be.

you're just mad because i'm older and smarter than you.

[tragedyco]

yeah, definately not true. why would they even say that?

[Ruggiero2oo8]

If only they'd come out with "auto-enunciate", we'd be on to something.


hahaha