Mexicans shoot at border patrol

[siberianxkiss]

shouldnt this be considered as an act of war?

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48218

INVASION USA
Shots fired at Border Patrol
Attack is latest in series of incidents originating from Mexico
Posted: January 6, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

Border Patrol officials say as many as 20 shots fired at agents near Brownsville, Texas, originated from Mexico in the most recent of a series of incidents involving gunplay and other violence directed at Americans from south of the Rio Grande River.

U.S. officials said last weekend's gunfire did not appear to be a random action and that the attacker – who was not identified in reports – was most likely a trained shooter, KRGV-TV, ABC's Brownsville affiliate, said.

Jose Rodriguez, a spokesman for the Border Patrol in McAllen, Texas, told Reuters, "Shots were fired, no one was injured, and the FBI have taken the case over."

Authorities said as many as five shots struck a Border Patrol boat as it patrolled the area.

In a separate shooting days earlier, U.S. officials said as many as 10 shots were fired at agents patrolling near the Veteran's International Bridge at Los Tomates. One Border Patrol vehicle was struck but no agents were injured in that shooting, either.

U.S. officials believe drug and people smugglers are responsible for the increased acts of violence, perhaps in retaliation for increased border security that has led to more arrests.

Meanwhile, a week ago a Border Patrol agent near San Diego shot and killed Guillermo Martínez, "a known people smuggler who had been detained 11 times prior," agency spokesman Raul Martinez told The Associated Press.

The shooting death has set off a storm of protest in Mexico, with officials there promising an investigation amid charges U.S. immigration policy sanctions the improper use of force.

Border Patrol officials say the shooting was justified, however, because the agent feared for his life and retaliated only after being attacked with rocks.

Martínez slipped back across the border after he was shot, where he died at a hospital in Tijuana the next day.

[preppyak]

U.S. officials said last weekend's gunfire did not appear to be a random action and that the attacker – who was not identified in reports – was most likely a trained shooter, KRGV-TV, ABC's Brownsville affiliate, said.

Crazy mexicans, you can get a taco right, but not the scope on a rifle...:shake:

[richter915]

ah...finally a reason we can use to invade those damned wet backs.

[FScott]

Yeah More War!

[Jentheoptimist]

No, just some crazy beaners. I wouldn't mind them coming in this country if they actually you know, invested in the economy here instead of sending all of the money they make to mexico to support families there. Oh yeah and of course learned english, if they plan on working here. Nothing more annyoing then when I'm at a parking structure and they have to call a manger to answer something as simple as "where do I park?" What about the countless tax dollars they demand to be spent on making things bilingual (Schools, Signs, 911)

[richter915]

No, just some crazy beaners. I wouldn't mind them coming in this country if they actually you know, invested in the economy here instead of sending all of the money they make to mexico to support families there. Oh yeah and of course learned english, if they plan on working here. Nothing more annyoing then when I'm at a parking structure and they have to call a manger to answer something as simple as "where do I park?" What about the countless tax dollars they demand to be spent on making things bilingual (Schools, Signs, 911)
see this is why the constitution should just say "we the anglo-saxon english speaking slave owners hold these truths..." it would shut guys like you up.

This country was built by immigrants, so don't complain about new ones. what school is bilingual? oh right, the few extra letters under some signs makes a HUGE difference. And these people do put money into the economy...they pay rent right? they pay taxes and other bills, right? They buy food, right? so money does go in there. To say that you won't do anything for your family is just your own selfish problem. Please, never pop out any kids for this nation's sake.

[Jentheoptimist]

see this is why the constitution should just say "we the anglo-saxon english speaking slave owners hold these truths..." it would shut guys like you up.

This country was built by immigrants, so don't complain about new ones. what school is bilingual? oh right, the few extra letters under some signs makes a HUGE difference. And these people do put money into the economy...they pay rent right? they pay taxes and other bills, right? They buy food, right? so money does go in there. To say that you won't do anything for your family is just your own selfish problem. Please, never pop out any kids for this nation's sake.
Excuse me, sir. What schools are Bi-lingual? You must not live in Southern Ca. You wanna talk "HUGE Differences" California just spent millions of dollars for a now mandatory spanish class all police officiers must take now. Do they do that for us in mexico? We account for 78% of the tourism in that country. No they just know just enough english to blackmail us to bribe our way out of possible jail time for drinking in their country (I mean I'm sure they know thats the only reason you go their in the first place) Do you think the 911 function was just a few thousand dollars world wide? don't think so. How many people that were born in america are losing jobs to people who will do it cheaper? (you know the tax paying ones you mention) How many of those said americans go on welfare? How many of those said americans become homeless? How many kids get less attention from a teacher cause they are busy trying to teach english to kids who if they are gonna be in this country should know it already? Oh and They pay rent right? move about 10 of your friends in a one bed room apartment and you could pay rent too. They pay taxes? I'm not exactly sure how these arrangements work but if your entering the country illegally and getting paid under the table I don't think said employer goes 10 for you 5 for old uncle sam. Highly unlikely. They do buy food, though your right. Yep they buy food.

Edit: Blackmail, not blackmale. Sorry my "white power" bandana flew over my eyes.

[FOBcareemo]

Excuse me, sir. What schools are Bi-lingual? You must not live in Southern Ca. You wanna talk "HUGE Differences" California just spent millions of dollars for a now mandatory spanish class all police officiers must take now. Do they do that for us in mexico? We account for 78% of the tourism in that country. No they just know just enough english to blackmale us to bribe our way out of possible jail time for drinking in their country (I mean I'm sure they know thats the only reason you go their in the first place) Do you think the 911 function was just a few thousand dollars world wide? don't think so. How many people that were born in america are losing jobs to people who will do it cheaper? (you know the tax paying ones you mention) How many of those said americans go on welfare? How many of those said americans become homeless? How many kids get less attention from a teacher cause they are busy trying to teach english to kids who if they are gonna be in this country should know it already? Oh and They pay rent right? move about 10 of your friends in a one bed room apartment and you could pay rent too. They pay taxes? I'm not exactly sure how these arrangements work but if your entering the country illegally and getting paid under the table I don't think said employer goes 10 for you 5 for old uncle sam. Highly unlikely. They do buy food, though your right. Yep they buy food.


Wave goodbye to your credibility.

I also live in southern California and yes, I have noticed a bit of what you are saying but it's not an overwhelming problem as you make it out to be, become a little more tolerant/rational.

[fromwithin]

Wave goodbye to your credibility.
haha he said blackmail the chocolate people way.

[Jentheoptimist]

Wave goodbye to your credibility.

I also live in southern California and yes, I have noticed a bit of what you are saying but it's not an overwhelming problem as you make it out to be, become a little more tolerant/rational.
::waves:: I don't care I will not hold back and not say what I believe just to be accepted, this kinda crap happens everywhere in Southern CA. I know I am not a racist, I don't care about people who go through the motions and legally obtain the right to be here. I am more upset with the illegal aspect of this whole thing. I am hardly touching on what I could be and it is a serious problem, when the states number one issue is high taxes and this very subject is a very large contributing factor, it then makes it a serious problem. As for becoming more tolerant, I'll take that under consideration, since all I do is flood the boards with my hate for mexicans. I go about my mexican hating day thinking "god if only I could get a hold of a hand gun" Puh-lease I never thought twice about this until I seen this thread, all it takes is reading a newspaper or watching the news to have an opinion on this.

[worldturnedover]

Excuse me, sir. What schools are Bi-lingual? You must not live in Southern Ca. You wanna talk "HUGE Differences" California just spent millions of dollars for a now mandatory spanish class all police officiers must take now. Do they do that for us in mexico? We account for 78% of the tourism in that country. No they just know just enough english to blackmail us to bribe our way out of possible jail time for drinking in their country (I mean I'm sure they know thats the only reason you go their in the first place) Do you think the 911 function was just a few thousand dollars world wide? don't think so. How many people that were born in america are losing jobs to people who will do it cheaper? (you know the tax paying ones you mention) How many of those said americans go on welfare? How many of those said americans become homeless? How many kids get less attention from a teacher cause they are busy trying to teach english to kids who if they are gonna be in this country should know it already? Oh and They pay rent right? move about 10 of your friends in a one bed room apartment and you could pay rent too. They pay taxes? I'm not exactly sure how these arrangements work but if your entering the country illegally and getting paid under the table I don't think said employer goes 10 for you 5 for old uncle sam. Highly unlikely. They do buy food, though your right. Yep they buy food.

Edit: Blackmail, not blackmale. Sorry my "white power" bandana flew over my eyes.


exactly. and not just soCal. dont forget arizona!
there are legal ways of entering this country and becomming a citizen. if you cant do that dont come at all. people that like that make me sick.

and i dont care if im not tolerant. if you tolerate everything you stand for nothing.

[justinevans]

see this is why the constitution should just say "we the anglo-saxon english speaking slave owners hold these truths..." it would shut guys like you up.

This country was built by immigrants, so don't complain about new ones. what school is bilingual? oh right, the few extra letters under some signs makes a HUGE difference. And these people do put money into the economy...they pay rent right? they pay taxes and other bills, right? They buy food, right? so money does go in there. To say that you won't do anything for your family is just your own selfish problem. Please, never pop out any kids for this nation's sake.

HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO SOUTH FLORIDA?

[justinevans]

There are more cubans that live in Union City, NJ than in the capital of Cuba.

[richter915]

Excuse me, sir. What schools are Bi-lingual? You must not live in Southern Ca. You wanna talk "HUGE Differences" California just spent millions of dollars for a now mandatory spanish class all police officiers must take now. Do they do that for us in mexico? We account for 78% of the tourism in that country. No they just know just enough english to blackmail us to bribe our way out of possible jail time for drinking in their country (I mean I'm sure they know thats the only reason you go their in the first place) Do you think the 911 function was just a few thousand dollars world wide? don't think so. How many people that were born in america are losing jobs to people who will do it cheaper? (you know the tax paying ones you mention) How many of those said americans go on welfare? How many of those said americans become homeless? How many kids get less attention from a teacher cause they are busy trying to teach english to kids who if they are gonna be in this country should know it already? Oh and They pay rent right? move about 10 of your friends in a one bed room apartment and you could pay rent too. They pay taxes? I'm not exactly sure how these arrangements work but if your entering the country illegally and getting paid under the table I don't think said employer goes 10 for you 5 for old uncle sam. Highly unlikely. They do buy food, though your right. Yep they buy food.

Edit: Blackmail, not blackmale. Sorry my "white power" bandana flew over my eyes.78% of tourism doesn't make us a resident (legal or not) in the country. these tourists are probably kids who border hop just to get drunk off their asses, they deserve what they get. oh right, they're American so they deserve to be hailed as kings wherever they go, sorry I forgot.

haha this is the best "How many people that were born in america are losing jobs to people who will do it cheaper? (you know the tax paying ones you mention) " YOU LAZY FUCKER! you deserve to get fired. These people will do all the shit you're too "proud" to do...can't let your precious pale skin get tarnished huh? And you're gonna hate on the immigrants? hate on the greedy American employers! they're the ones hiring the Mexicans over you...and if you knew the tiniest logic of the business world you'd understand...let's see I want my business to succeed...do I hire this hard working immigrant who will work for cheap and not complain...or this other guy who will demand higher wages and probably complain for raises in a month or two? Just cause someone is born in the US doesn't mean they deserve a job...who logic is that??? people who work the hardest deserve the job...if I told you that outta this context, you'd agree...and you complain when Americans go on welfare but I bet if an immigrant was on welfare (from what I remember, the majority of Americans on welfare are of minority groups...oh and ya you need to be a citizen to receive welfare)

I don't know how much the 911 function costs "world wide" cause people in Japan call the SoCal police ofr help...I would guess 911 is paid by local taxes so it depends on your population...which means immigrants will EVENTUALLY help your town (if only you weren't a nazi)

there're classes called ESL classes...which are used to teach people English as a Second Language. Yes you'll say that that class is a waste of money...do you know that it probably costs the school a few hundred dollars to run that class...you're teaching someone ENGLISH...you don't need a degree for that. They can have a janitor do it if they wanted. Ya, that money and attention would really be well used elsewhere..they'd spend it on more funding for our shitty football programs and crap. Cause HS sports is sooo important. Sorry I strayed, but it's really not a huge pain in the ass to help some kids out.

My point, these people know that the US will give their families the best life they can have so they're doing whatever they can to do so. Wouldn't you for your family? You don't understand this because your ancestors immigrated long ago...but to say that you're here first, therefore you deserve more...is just wrong. Yes they should do things legally and all the illegal stuff is wrong, I do agree with that...but you can't be so intolerant about this because they're going through something I doubt you want to understand.

[richter915]

HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO SOUTH FLORIDA?
no, but I don't see your point. ya I know there're A LOT of cubans there...probably more than Cuba itself. what's the problem?

[justinevans]

no, but I don't see your point. ya I know there're A LOT of cubans there...probably more than Cuba itself. what's the problem?

You asked about bi-lingual schools and there are plenty. Many schools in south florida, nj, california require teachers to be bilingual...my mom is a teacher, she couldn't get certain jobs because of it.

[richter915]

You asked about bi-lingual schools and there are plenty. Many schools in south florida, nj, california require teachers to be bilingual...my mom is a teacher, she couldn't get certain jobs because of it.
I still don't see a big problem in that? is furthering your education that much of a problem? learning spanish is a joke for the most part. Maybe in your mother's generation foreign language wasn't a requirement in HS but it is across the board so for us, and our offspring, it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

[YourMusicSucks]

I hate spanish class so much.

I wish they'd just make one of those "perfect" languages and make it requires learning for every school in the world that teaches a language.

Hey hey for useless input.

[richter915]

I hate spanish class so much.

I wish they'd just make one of those "perfect" languages and make it requires learning for every school in the world that teaches a language.

Hey hey for useless input.
I think English is pretty much required in every country in the world. You'd be amazed how well spoken people are in foreign countries.

I wasn't a fan of Spanish class (the ability to learn another language is a sign of genius actually)...I worked hard it in and pulled off a 96 on the Regents, I was content. I like what I learned cause I now I can pick up some words on the spanish channel.

[theOCEANFLOOR]

see this is why the constitution should just say "we the anglo-saxon english speaking slave owners hold these truths..." it would shut guys like you up.

This country was built by immigrants, so don't complain about new ones. what school is bilingual? oh right, the few extra letters under some signs makes a HUGE difference. And these people do put money into the economy...they pay rent right? they pay taxes and other bills, right? They buy food, right? so money does go in there. To say that you won't do anything for your family is just your own selfish problem. Please, never pop out any kids for this nation's sake.
i agree and disagree with you. you're right, legal immigrants do contribute immensly to our society and are undoubtedly a foundation of it. but there are far more illegal immigrants who do not pay taxes, rent, etc. but this is a double edged sword. one of the biggest problems with illegal immigrants coming as workers is the fact that they cant seek the protections of this country. for instance, say a husband and wife came over to the US illegally and one of them got sick. they can't take their loved one to the hospital because they would be expelled from the country. also, say an illegal immigrant witnessed a crime like a murder? they cant go to the police because they'd be detained. in the same way, illegal immigrants can't fight against injustice in the workplace because they're in fact illegally in the united states.

also, you're wrong to say "what school is bilingual." i'd say more people these days are multi-lingual than they were even 5 years ago. you have to be.

yeah a lot of schools are behind but you can make that argument about anyhting.

also, another unfair aspect of immigration (although im not sure if unfair is the right word) is that america is seen as "the land of opportunity" but if you do not succeed here you probably will live one of the most difficult lives possible. this is a society where if you are not successful you are constantly struggling to maintain.

[theOCEANFLOOR]

I think English is pretty much required in every country in the world. You'd be amazed how well spoken people are in foreign countries.

I wasn't a fan of Spanish class (the ability to learn another language is a sign of genius actually)...I worked hard it in and pulled off a 96 on the Regents, I was content. I like what I learned cause I now I can pick up some words on the spanish channel. that's flattering; i lived in Paraguay and am now fluent in spanish. i guess i am a genius afterall.

AND i agree, you would be amazed at how much more dilligent students are in other countries when it comes to learning languages other than their own. in fact, youd be shocked to see how much more dilligent they are in their studies. i taught english in poor rural schools in paraguay and these kids were like angels as students. i couldnt believe it. they'd ask my permission and guidance for everything and if they didnt get something 100% correct it was as if the world was ending. they were so disciplined. my first graders spoke better english than most people i know hahaha okay thats an overstatement but you get the idea. it was incredible.

[theOCEANFLOOR]

I hate spanish class so much.

I wish they'd just make one of those "perfect" languages and make it requires learning for every school in the world that teaches a language.

Hey hey for useless input.
one of those "perfect languages"? are you arian? haha

[richter915]

that's flattering; i lived in Paraguay and am now fluent in spanish. i guess i am a genius afterall.

AND i agree, you would be amazed at how much more dilligent students are in other countries when it comes to learning languages other than their own. in fact, youd be shocked to see how much more dilligent they are in their studies. i taught english in poor rural schools in paraguay and these kids were like angels as students. i couldnt believe it. they'd ask my permission and guidance for everything and if they didnt get something 100% correct it was as if the world was ending. they were so disciplined. my first graders spoke better english than most people i know hahaha okay thats an overstatement but you get the idea. it was incredible.
haha well it's a bit different if you actually live in an another country. But I knew people who picked up spanish like that and others who flat out struggled. From what I recall, the ability to learn how to play instruments and learn languages...along with memory...are the big signs of genius. So when parents push their kids to take piano lessons...it's not for no reason...it helps the mind like crazy.

but that is true about foreign students. I think it's cause of what they see. They see the shit they live in, they know how horrible it is, and they know that the only way out is to work hard and be educated. My college is made up of 17% foreign students and these guys are just...amazing. They do shit in their head that would take American kids way longer using pen paper and computer. I've also noticed that foreign born children in the US tend to work harder and achieve more. In fact, the honors chemistry professor at my university said that 80% of his students were foreign born.

and you've taught in foreign countries?? that's pretty amazing. Cool stuff.

[richter915]

i agree and disagree with you. you're right, legal immigrants do contribute immensly to our society and are undoubtedly a foundation of it. but there are far more illegal immigrants who do not pay taxes, rent, etc. but this is a double edged sword. one of the biggest problems with illegal immigrants coming as workers is the fact that they cant seek the protections of this country. for instance, say a husband and wife came over to the US illegally and one of them got sick. they can't take their loved one to the hospital because they would be expelled from the country. also, say an illegal immigrant witnessed a crime like a murder? they cant go to the police because they'd be detained. in the same way, illegal immigrants can't fight against injustice in the workplace because they're in fact illegally in the united states.

also, you're wrong to say "what school is bilingual." i'd say more people these days are multi-lingual than they were even 5 years ago. you have to be.

yeah a lot of schools are behind but you can make that argument about anyhting.

also, another unfair aspect of immigration (although im not sure if unfair is the right word) is that america is seen as "the land of opportunity" but if you do not succeed here you probably will live one of the most difficult lives possible. this is a society where if you are not successful you are constantly struggling to maintain.
well what do you mean by saying a school is multilingual? I'm thinking that the morning announcements are given in more than one language. I can't say that I've ever heard of anything like that. The life of an immigrant is a tough one and coming over illegally is even tougher. I don't think illegal immigration is right by any means and it should be controlled. These people will live rought lives regardless.

I don't think that it's an unfair aspect of immigration...I just think that's how capitalist nations work. There's an economic hierarchy and immigrants usually start at the bottom and many are kept at the bottom.

[Justin_stacy]

shouldnt this be considered as an act of war?

.

The Mexican army has been illegally crossing the American border for years in support of drug traffickers.......and this also isn’t the first time they’ve fired on American officials and citizens. The fact is Mexico has been “waging war” on us for decades, but nothing will come of it until another 9-11, with southern connections, happens.

It’s shameful that people care more about unrealistic theories and business profits then they do their fellow citizens in the south who are besieged by criminals.

[richter915]

they're fighting back...what happened to all those vigilante groups? you know, the groups that probably started the violence in the first place?

it's ok, I can't wait till we bring freedom to Mexico.

[Jentheoptimist]

78% of tourism doesn't make us a resident (legal or not) in the country. these tourists are probably kids who border hop just to get drunk off their asses, they deserve what they get. oh right, they're American so they deserve to be hailed as kings wherever they go, sorry I forgot.

haha this is the best "How many people that were born in america are losing jobs to people who will do it cheaper? (you know the tax paying ones you mention) " YOU LAZY FUCKER! you deserve to get fired. These people will do all the shit you're too "proud" to do...can't let your precious pale skin get tarnished huh? And you're gonna hate on the immigrants? hate on the greedy American employers! they're the ones hiring the Mexicans over you...and if you knew the tiniest logic of the business world you'd understand...let's see I want my business to succeed...do I hire this hard working immigrant who will work for cheap and not complain...or this other guy who will demand higher wages and probably complain for raises in a month or two? Just cause someone is born in the US doesn't mean they deserve a job...who logic is that??? people who work the hardest deserve the job...if I told you that outta this context, you'd agree...and you complain when Americans go on welfare but I bet if an immigrant was on welfare (from what I remember, the majority of Americans on welfare are of minority groups...oh and ya you need to be a citizen to receive welfare)

I don't know how much the 911 function costs "world wide" cause people in Japan call the SoCal police ofr help...I would guess 911 is paid by local taxes so it depends on your population...which means immigrants will EVENTUALLY help your town (if only you weren't a nazi)

there're classes called ESL classes...which are used to teach people English as a Second Language. Yes you'll say that that class is a waste of money...do you know that it probably costs the school a few hundred dollars to run that class...you're teaching someone ENGLISH...you don't need a degree for that. They can have a janitor do it if they wanted. Ya, that money and attention would really be well used elsewhere..they'd spend it on more funding for our shitty football programs and crap. Cause HS sports is sooo important. Sorry I strayed, but it's really not a huge pain in the ass to help some kids out.

My point, these people know that the US will give their families the best life they can have so they're doing whatever they can to do so. Wouldn't you for your family? You don't understand this because your ancestors immigrated long ago...but to say that you're here first, therefore you deserve more...is just wrong. Yes they should do things legally and all the illegal stuff is wrong, I do agree with that...but you can't be so intolerant about this because they're going through something I doubt you want to understand.
Okay this is great and all but, this thread has always been about illegal mexican immigrants therefore making half of your little rant irrelevant. Let me make this 100% clear to you. I have nothing against people who obtain the legal right to be here. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say americas native language is english. Is it so wrong for me to think, if they are gonna work here, and live here, to learn it. Instead of making us change to pander to them. You know just one of those things. As for your whole idea of wages. Just because you do work cheaper, and are happy to be doing so, doesn't make it right. You deserve to be paid what the position is worth, not what someone in desperation to "help their family out" will do it for. The whole argument you made their can not hold up, they are not escaping religious persecution like our ancestors, they are acting off of greed (just like you say we are) they are more then capable of making a nice living for their family in Mexico. They are not doing it for the need to survive they are doing it to have a better life. Again something I can't blame them for wanting but it all comes back to doing it the legal way. Anyway it is not like me to walk away from some asshole challenging me on a forum, but you lack the mental capacity to argue with me both civilly and rationally. You have insulted me, put words in my mouth, and made assumptions of me that could not be further from the truth. Your points carry no relevants whatsoever, and are all over the place.Since you made some assumptions about me let me return the favor. Personally I see you as nothing more then an opportunist, who saw me make a light hearted comment and chose to blow it out of propotion so you can practice putting your holier then thou fake bullshit beliefs in action. You are a fake, and so is everything you pretend to stand for. You hide behind universal liberal beliefs that are not your own but ones you got from the latest indie movie, or your more intelligent friends. You know nothing about the mexican border, nor do you have to deal with illegal mexican immigrants, as much as those of us that well I don't know live within 500 miles of the border. You live in New York. Yes you deal with your fair share of immigrants but not of the Mexican variety, in which this whole thread is based on, which kinda limits your credibility. I have made my points and did so without insulting you. Next time your gonna educate someone about being more tolerant, you should try taking a long, hard look in the mirror. Goodnight, procreate, and be really lazy...it's your god given right, cause your american.

Edit: forgot the n.

[richter915]

Okay this is great and all but, this thread has always been about illegal mexican immigrants therefore making half of your little rant irrelevant. Let me make this 100% clear to you. I have nothing against people who obtain the legal right to be here. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say americas native language is english. Is it so wrong for me to think, if they are gonna work here, and live here, to learn it. Instead of making us change to pander to them. You know just one of those things. As for your whole idea of wages. Just because you do work cheaper, and are happy to be doing so, doesn't make it right. You deserve to be paid what the position is worth, not what someone in desperation to "help their family out" will do it for. The whole argument you made their can not hold up, they are not escaping religious persecution like our ancestors, they are acting off of greed (just like you say we are) they are more then capable of making a nice living for their family in Mexico. They are not doing it for the need to survive they are doing it to have a better life. Again something I can't blame them for wanting but it all comes back to doing it the legal way. Anyway it is not like me to walk away from some asshole challenging me on a forum, but you lack the mental capacity to argue with me both civilly and rationally. You have insulted me, put words in my mouth, and made assumptions of me that could not be further from the truth. Your points carry no relevants whatsoever, and are all over the place.Since you made some assumptions about me let me return the favor. Personally I see you as nothing more then an opportunist, who saw me make a light hearted comment and chose to blow it out of propotion so you can practice putting your holier then thou fake bullshit beliefs in action. You are a fake, and so is everything you pretend to stand for. You hide behind universal liberal beliefs that are not your own but ones you got from the latest indie movie, or your more intelligent friends. You know nothing about the mexican border, nor do you have to deal with illegal mexican immigrants, as much as those of us that well I don't know live within 500 miles of the border. You live in New York. Yes you deal with your fair share of immigrants but not of the Mexican variety, in which this whole thread is based on, which kinda limits your credibility. I have made my points and did so without insulting you. Next time your gonna educate someone about being more tolerant, you should try taking a long, hard look in the mirror. Goodnight, procreate, and be really lazy...it's your god given right, cause your american.

Edit: forgot the n.
haha thank you! I know nothing? I'm uneducated? please, you don't know the half of it little girl. The reason why I make assumptions against you is because you made assumptions about the illegal immigrants. I show sympathy towards immigrants because I am one...I know what it takes to make it in this country. You chose to believe that they're working for their own greed, I choose to believe that they're doing it to better themselves...we're saying the same thing in the end though. And yes they should learn English and they will! how can you expect them to learn it in an instant? you try going and living in another country...you'll see that it's tough. By offering language assistance to them...it's to help the learning process. It softens the blow maybe? My argument about the will to work being stronger in immigrants over established Americans is completely valid. If you're being threatened to get fired from your own job, it's just stupidity to flip your boss off and get fired. There is no SENSE in that especially when you need the money...money is a necessity in our society. And I'm sure these people are fleeing from mexico for other reasons...you're so blind in thinking that religious persecution was the only reason the American colonists left England...and if you think life is sooo good for these people in Mexico, then explain to me why they're living? you apparantly think Mexico is like...heaven or something and no one would ever wanna leave there. The horrible social structure, the corrupt politics...oh ya, very appealing. If Mexico is so nice, why don't you move there?

and I know how Mexican immigrants are...I lived in an apartment complex with 4 other mexican families for three years...very nice people from what I saw. obviously "your brand" of immigrant is different (just to point out, you're the one making immigrants seem like cattle...if you don't recognize that in your words, well that's the problem)...

and ya, make fun of me. Go ahead, name some indie movies I saw...come on, let's hear em since you've read my biography...which I haven't heard about. Do you know that I can't stand most college aged liberals? did ya, bet not..you mighta skipped that chapter...well I do...why, cause of exactly what you said...they're pseudo intellectuals who know everything about everything...at least they think so. I cannot stand it so don't compare me to that, thanks. have you read this far? if so, good job, keep going!

I agree with you in that this should all be done in a legal manner...I think you missed that as well considering half your last comment was attacking me and straying from the issue...I think this should all be done in a legal manner. Anyway, have a nice night...don't let the wet backs bite.

[theOCEANFLOOR]

well what do you mean by saying a school is multilingual? I'm thinking that the morning announcements are given in more than one language. I can't say that I've ever heard of anything like that. The life of an immigrant is a tough one and coming over illegally is even tougher. I don't think illegal immigration is right by any means and it should be controlled. These people will live rought lives regardless.

I don't think that it's an unfair aspect of immigration...I just think that's how capitalist nations work. There's an economic hierarchy and immigrants usually start at the bottom and many are kept at the bottom. agreed. i see your point.

i meant people are multi-lingual, not schools. i would venture to say that a lot of people, especially in a lot of professions today, can speak multiple languages instead of just one other than their native tongue. i wouldnt necessarily say that that means schools are multi-lingual in the sense you interpreted it, but i would say people are becoming more concious of the need to be more global.

[theOCEANFLOOR]

haha well it's a bit different if you actually live in an another country. But I knew people who picked up spanish like that and others who flat out struggled. From what I recall, the ability to learn how to play instruments and learn languages...along with memory...are the big signs of genius. So when parents push their kids to take piano lessons...it's not for no reason...it helps the mind like crazy.

but that is true about foreign students. I think it's cause of what they see. They see the shit they live in, they know how horrible it is, and they know that the only way out is to work hard and be educated. My college is made up of 17% foreign students and these guys are just...amazing. They do shit in their head that would take American kids way longer using pen paper and computer. I've also noticed that foreign born children in the US tend to work harder and achieve more. In fact, the honors chemistry professor at my university said that 80% of his students were foreign born.

and you've taught in foreign countries?? that's pretty amazing. Cool stuff.
yeah, it was amazing. honestly changed my life.

[richter915]

agreed. i see your point.

i meant people are multi-lingual, not schools. i would venture to say that a lot of people, especially in a lot of professions today, can speak multiple languages instead of just one other than their native tongue. i wouldnt necessarily say that that means schools are multi-lingual in the sense you interpreted it, but i would say people are becoming more concious of the need to be more global.
so you're pretty much saying that schools are diversifying and have done so very quickly? I've definitely noticed that. We have plenty of Indian students suddenly flooding my old high school. It's definitely noticeable but I think it's a fine thing to have...if we grow up seeing different faces, I feel that it creates good sense of morals in people and also helps people hold onto their roots more. but I don't think that the other person who said bilingual schools meant that. If she did and thinks it's a problem...thinks that only English should be spoken in schools, then I mean...I really don't know what to say to that.

[Justin_stacy]

they're fighting back...what happened to all those vigilante groups? you know, the groups that probably started the violence in the first place?

it's ok, I can't wait till we bring freedom to Mexico.

There “fighting back” by helping drug dealers across the border to spread narcotics to American citizens, and that’s justifiable? And these "vigilante" groups are the cause of the problem because their legally trying to keep people from illegally entering our Nation? Not to mention that the Mexican army has been crossing the US border for more then 50 years, far longer then the Minute Men have been on the border.

Anyway you look at it Mexico is the aggressor and has never abided by national borders......and you’re a fool for making ignorant comments on a subject you don’t understand (which if I remember right isn't the first time you've done this).....

[theOCEANFLOOR]

so you're pretty much saying that schools are diversifying and have done so very quickly? I've definitely noticed that. We have plenty of Indian students suddenly flooding my old high school. It's definitely noticeable but I think it's a fine thing to have...if we grow up seeing different faces, I feel that it creates good sense of morals in people and also helps people hold onto their roots more. but I don't think that the other person who said bilingual schools meant that. If she did and thinks it's a problem...thinks that only English should be spoken in schools, then I mean...I really don't know what to say to that.
yeah definitely

[theOCEANFLOOR]

There “fighting back” by helping drug dealers across the border to spread narcotics to American citizens, and that’s justifiable? And these "vigilante" groups are the cause of the problem because their legally trying to keep people from illegally entering our Nation? Not to mention that the Mexican army has been crossing the US border for more then 50 years, far longer then the Minute Men have been on the border.

Anyway you look at it Mexico is the aggressor and has never abided by national borders......and you’re a fool for making ignorant comments on a subject you don’t understand (which if I remember right isn't the first time you've done this).....
i think what he's getting at is that the mexicans have an economic reason to want to come into our nation and hopefully someday that reason will no longer exist and there wont have to be this violence at the borders.

[Justin_stacy]

i think what he's getting at is that the mexicans have an economic reason to want to come into our nation and hopefully someday that reason will no longer exist and there wont have to be this violence at the borders.

"Someday" is unlikely to ever happen because of the institutionalized corruption that exists in all parts of the Mexican government.........so we have to take action.

And just because its military related doesn't mean we're starting any violence or being aggressive like out mexican counterparts. Every European nation has its military on its border, do you consider these acts of aggression or war? Of course not, it is all about security. A military duty is to keep the nation secure.

[worldturnedover]

Okay this is great and all but, this thread has always been about illegal mexican immigrants therefore making half of your little rant irrelevant. Let me make this 100% clear to you. I have nothing against people who obtain the legal right to be here. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say americas native language is english. Is it so wrong for me to think, if they are gonna work here, and live here, to learn it. Instead of making us change to pander to them. You know just one of those things. As for your whole idea of wages. Just because you do work cheaper, and are happy to be doing so, doesn't make it right. You deserve to be paid what the position is worth, not what someone in desperation to "help their family out" will do it for. The whole argument you made their can not hold up, they are not escaping religious persecution like our ancestors, they are acting off of greed (just like you say we are) they are more then capable of making a nice living for their family in Mexico. They are not doing it for the need to survive they are doing it to have a better life. Again something I can't blame them for wanting but it all comes back to doing it the legal way.

i couldnt have said it better. and living in southern arizona i understand completely.

[richter915]

There “fighting back” by helping drug dealers across the border to spread narcotics to American citizens, and that’s justifiable? And these "vigilante" groups are the cause of the problem because their legally trying to keep people from illegally entering our Nation? Not to mention that the Mexican army has been crossing the US border for more then 50 years, far longer then the Minute Men have been on the border.

Anyway you look at it Mexico is the aggressor and has never abided by national borders......and you’re a fool for making ignorant comments on a subject you don’t understand (which if I remember right isn't the first time you've done this).....
haha yes, attack my credibility. That'll do it. What's with you guys, no one is allowed to voice their opinion unless they read up on every little detail on the issue? if you don't wanna take my comments seriously then don't. Don't attack my credibility cause making me look "dumb" doesn't make you look "smart".

I just don't like the violence in the issue, is that wrong? yes apparantly cause the gun-toting south would love to shoot up some wetbacks. Then go for it, I'm tired of caring.

[Jentheoptimist]

haha thank you! I know nothing? I'm uneducated? please, you don't know the half of it little girl. The reason why I make assumptions against you is because you made assumptions about the illegal immigrants.

and if you think life is sooo good for these people in Mexico, then explain to me why they're living? you apparantly think Mexico is like...heaven or something and no one would ever wanna leave there. The horrible social structure, the corrupt politics...oh ya, very appealing. If Mexico is so nice, why don't you move there?

I agree with you in that this should all be done in a legal manner...I think you missed that as well considering half your last comment was attacking me and straying from the issue...I think this should all be done in a legal manner. Anyway, have a nice night...don't let the wet backs bite.
Assume: Verb [Trans.] Suppose to be the case, without proof I was making assumptions because you did of me. It is not an assumption to say illegal immigrants (the ones we have been talking about, the whole time) don't pay taxes. So what assumptions did I make about them that started your "attack" on me.

Explain why they leave? Because they want more and/or better. (opportunities, money, and possessions) again I don't blame them, just do it legal. When you want more then you need when you are livng comfortably, thats when greed comes into play. "The horrible social structure, the corrupt politics...oh ya, very appealing. If Mexico is so nice, why don't you move there?" The Same things can be said about this beautiful country, we live in. You don't see me fleeing to greener pastures.


"I agree with you in that this should all be done in a legal manner...I think you missed that" Obviously that is not true because we wouldn't be having this discussion. Again, I never said anything about the legal immigrants which is the reason for this attack, or at least that's what you say. I was never straying from the issues I told you about the 911 function, you then presented me with no facts, just assumptions. What was I suppose to say to that? I told you about the bi-lingual classes (you know the ones you claimed before never exsisted) and you gave me the name of the exact program and some irrelevant story about school sports. Again about attacking you, I made my points without attacking you. You had no points so you just attacked me to make me look dumb and make you look smart. Now done with the assumptions lets deal with facts. You are a hypocrite, (see below, and through out this thread) and an asshole (see my thread about two young girls dying)

if you don't wanna take my comments seriously then don't. Don't attack my credibility cause making me look "dumb" doesn't make you look "smart". Funny that you say that. I think you set the entire tone for this thread. Again look in the mirror.

[richter915]

Assume: Verb [Trans.] Suppose to be the case, without proof I was making assumptions because you did of me. It is not an assumption to say illegal immigrants (the ones we have been talking about, the whole time) don't pay taxes. So what assumptions did I make about them that started your "attack" on me.

Explain why they leave? Because they want more and/or better. (opportunities, money, and possessions) again I don't blame them, just do it legal. When you want more then you need when you are livng comfortably, thats when greed comes into play. "The horrible social structure, the corrupt politics...oh ya, very appealing. If Mexico is so nice, why don't you move there?" The Same things can be said about this beautiful country, we live in. You don't see me fleeing to greener pastures.


"I agree with you in that this should all be done in a legal manner...I think you missed that" Obviously that is not true because we wouldn't be having this discussion. Again, I never said anything about the legal immigrants which is the reason for this attack, or at least that's what you say. I was never straying from the issues I told you about the 911 function, you then presented me with no facts, just assumptions. What was I suppose to say to that? I told you about the bi-lingual classes (you know the ones you claimed before never exsisted) and you gave me the name of the exact program and some irrelevant story about school sports. Again about attacking you, I made my points without attacking you. You had no points so you just attacked me to make me look dumb and make you look smart. Now done with the assumptions lets deal with facts. You are a hypocrite, (see below, and through out this thread) and an asshole (see my thread about two young girls dying)

Funny that you say that. I think you set the entire tone for this thread. Again look in the mirror.
I know what it means, I can read.

so you honestly think Mexico is just as good as the States?

I don't think you presented me with facts either. I made assumptions about you...I called you lazy...I know that. You're right, I don't have facts to back up my claims but I made, what I feel, are educated guesses from what I can gather...I think you've done the same.

You never clarified what I asked about the bi-lingual classes, yet you continue bringing it up. What exactly do you mean by bi-lingual classes? I'm not sure.

I don't want to make you look dumb, but I don't want you making me look dumb. I don't recall telling you what Justin_stacy told me. But he's always given me shit, I expect that from him. I read your opinions and replied with my own...I don't see the crime or hypocricy in that. You're making this whole thing far too personal than it needs to be.

and ya, I know the thread...and I said what I did based on your comments in here. Now that's an assumption...one that I standby.

I love looking in the mirror, I'm absolutely stunning.

[Jentheoptimist]

I know what it means, I can read.

so you honestly think Mexico is just as good as the States?

I don't think you presented me with facts either. I made assumptions about you...I called you lazy...I know that. You're right, I don't have facts to back up my claims but I made, what I feel, are educated guesses from what I can gather...I think you've done the same.

You never clarified what I asked about the bi-lingual classes, yet you continue bringing it up. What exactly do you mean by bi-lingual classes? I'm not sure.

I don't want to make you look dumb, but I don't want you making me look dumb. I don't recall telling you what Justin_stacy told me. But he's always given me shit, I expect that from him. I read your opinions and replied with my own...I don't see the crime or hypocricy in that. You're making this whole thing far too personal than it needs to be.

and ya, I know the thread...and I said what I did based on your comments in here. Now that's an assumption...one that I standby.

I love looking in the mirror, I'm absolutely stunning.
No, I never said that. I know it is bad there. In a country full of hard workers? it is hard to standout but it is just like america, and any other country. (hard to stand out that is) I will not go to mexico, with my education because it is better then theirs (not being rude) and become a top ranked psychologist amongst the locals who didn't get the type of education I received. It's not fair. So I wouldn't expect them to come here and say "I'll do it for half of what he will" because they know the meaning of hard work. You said something eariler along the lines of, because we are here first, we are not entitled to receive special treatment over someone who is the hardest worker. I disagree. America should always look after americans first. It's not special treatment as much as it is doing the right thing, to ensure our country is well taken care of. (But this subject is a touchy one) We will just have to agree to disagree here.

As for Bi-lingual classes, I went to elementry in a small town by the name of Norwalk where I attended a school called Notingham (which oddly enough they re-named Artho Sanchez) I was in a class where we had tons of free time, due to the fact our teacher had to take 40% of the class aside to teach them basic information in english. So not only were they learning what we were but they got an extra hour of what we already new. Soon after the Norwalk-La mirada Unified School District was offering afternoon classes to catch up all the kids who were put in mixed classes, the english speaking ones that is. Why was this not done the other way around? Why did the english speaking kids who were unlucky enough to be put in these classes get an apology letter and lost afternoon to play with their friends, so they could be at the same level with the rest of their grade. That is what I mean.

I am not making anything personal. I don't feel threatened by anything you have to say. I know my opinion on this is a little more credible, seeing as I have dealed with this first hand. I don't discredit you because I am offended really. I discredit you, because to me, you have no real substantial argument. You lower yourself to make assumptions of me, that are not true with the intentions of humiliating me and to accent your point.

What you said in the thread (that had nothing to do with this) was tactless, and showed that you have no respect for not only me (which is fine) but for the two innocent girls that lost their life. Your need to be witty surpassed your need to be human.

[punk_guitarer]

man. the border patrol needs to start shooting at them. my entire town is effin overrun with them. if ur white, ur a minority. its totally not cool. their effin destroying our economy cause they get everything for effin free. makes me mad man.

[ClapClapSnap]

man. the border patrol needs to start shooting at them. my entire town is effin overrun with them. if ur white, ur a minority. its totally not cool. their effin destroying our economy cause they get everything for effin free. makes me mad man.

generalizations make me angry

[Lpspider]

generalizations make me angry

make me angry to. Generalizations can cause wars, and very much so in a situation such as this.

[richter915]

man. the border patrol needs to start shooting at them. my entire town is effin overrun with them. if ur white, ur a minority. its totally not cool. their effin destroying our economy cause they get everything for effin free. makes me mad man.
now you know I've felt my whole life. Not fun huh?

[Jentheoptimist]

man. the border patrol needs to start shooting at them. my entire town is effin overrun with them. if ur white, ur a minority. its totally not cool. their effin destroying our economy cause they get everything for effin free. makes me mad man.
Anti-Flag would piss on your grave.

[richter915]

Anti-Flag would piss on your grave.
PWNED!