Repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell

[Mercy Medical]

I was sitting and thinking about this again today and honestly, I do not see the negative outcome of repealing DADT other then having a bunch of ignorant people who are opposed to homosexuality in general being angry.

For one, regardless if DADT exists or not there will always be gay and lesbian people serving in the military. This whole fear of "OMG WE'RE GOING TO SHARE BARRACKS AND TAKE SHOWERS TOGETHER!" is just stupid. You do that already, the thing is you just don't know that they are gay.

For two, repealing DADT is not going to mean that there will suddenly be pride parades occurring at all the US military bases across the world. Yes, some of these gay and lesbian individuals might be more open about their relationships in that regard, but I bet that most of them will only do so if they feel comfortable enough to share. Not all LGBT individuals are 100% out and proud to everyone. I know that I do not tell people unless I am comfortable with them knowing and know that they will be okay and comfortable with it as well.

For three, all that repealing DADT truly means is that gay and lesbian individuals will not be discharged for being who they are if they are "found out." It just means that they're not going to lose their job and their right to serve this country. It doesn't mean that they're suddenly going to go around grabbing other guys/girls asses and hitting on them. There is already codes of conduct in the military for this sort of thing for heterosexual individuals.

Honestly, I feel like if DADT was repealed today, nothing would really change in the military and it truly upsets me that Obama has not done something about this yet. Yes, I understand that there is a lot on his plate and more important fish to fry, but this seems and feels simple to me. There really are no logical negative outcomes other then a bunch of angry people.

[Justin_stacy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_and_military_ser vice

[Adeniz19]

If our military made it through integration in the 50's without crumbling, I don't see how we can't move passed this.

[Mercy Medical]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_and_military_ser vice
That's a very long Wikipedia article, so how about you just summarize what you're trying to say by posting it....

[Justin_stacy]

That's a very long Wikipedia article, so how about you just summarize what you're trying to say by posting it....

Perspective, scoll down past the first two paragraphs and it gives how other nations have acted on the topic. This might be easier to follow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_and_military_ser vice#Countries_that_allow_homosexua ls_to_serve_in_the_military).

really thought it was long?

[Mercy Medical]

Perspective, scoll down past the first two paragraphs and it gives how other nations have acted on the topic. This might be easier to follow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_and_military_ser vice#Countries_that_allow_homosexua ls_to_serve_in_the_military).

really thought it was long?
I just don't see the purpose of posting a Wikipedia link and that's it. I'm not going to read it because I'm not concerned with what wikipedia has to say about this matter, I'm more interested and concerned with what individuals have to say....

And I'm at work, so anything that is moderately long is too long.

And after briefly browsing through the article, I don't understand how other countries repealing their ban has to do with the statements I made.

[Animalhill]

I was sitting and thinking about this again today and honestly, I do not see the negative outcome of repealing DADT other then having a bunch of ignorant people who are opposed to homosexuality in general being angry.

For one, regardless if DADT exists or not there will always be gay and lesbian people serving in the military. This whole fear of "OMG WE'RE GOING TO SHARE BARRACKS AND TAKE SHOWERS TOGETHER!" is just stupid. You do that already, the thing is you just don't know that they are gay.

For two, repealing DADT is not going to mean that there will suddenly be pride parades occurring at all the US military bases across the world. Yes, some of these gay and lesbian individuals might be more open about their relationships in that regard, but I bet that most of them will only do so if they feel comfortable enough to share. Not all LGBT individuals are 100% out and proud to everyone. I know that I do not tell people unless I am comfortable with them knowing and know that they will be okay and comfortable with it as well.

For three, all that repealing DADT truly means is that gay and lesbian individuals will not be discharged for being who they are if they are "found out." It just means that they're not going to lose their job and their right to serve this country. It doesn't mean that they're suddenly going to go around grabbing other guys/girls asses and hitting on them. There is already codes of conduct in the military for this sort of thing for heterosexual individuals.

Honestly, I feel like if DADT was repealed today, nothing would really change in the military and it truly upsets me that Obama has not done something about this yet. Yes, I understand that there is a lot on his plate and more important fish to fry, but this seems and feels simple to me. There really are no logical negative outcomes other then a bunch of angry people.
I agree. One of my best friends is in the military and I recently spoke with him about this. His view was simple, essentially, "I don't give a fuck where they put their dick when they're off duty, as long as they are trained to have my back in combat, nothing else matters". They all go through the same training- if they were not fit to be in the service they wouldn't be. It should be repealed asap.

[Mercy Medical]

I agree. One of my best friends is in the military and I recently spoke with him about this. His view was simple, essentially, "I don't give a fuck where they put their dick when they're off duty, as long as they are trained to have my back in combat, nothing else matters". They all go through the same training- if they were not fit to be in the service they wouldn't be. It should be repealed asap.
What I don't understand is why it hasn't. As much as I don't want to understand it, I can understand the issue with legalizing gay marriage. I don't agree with the anti-gay marriage stance, but I do understand it.

This, I do not understand whatsoever and therefore I do not see why this is an issue other then getting a bunch of ignorant bigots up in arms and making a large group of people unhappy. There are no negative outcomes.

[Animalhill]

What I don't understand is why it hasn't. As much as I don't want to understand it, I can understand the issue with legalizing gay marriage. I don't agree with the anti-gay marriage stance, but I do understand it.

This, I do not understand whatsoever and therefore I do not see why this is an issue other then getting a bunch of ignorant bigots up in arms and making a large group of people unhappy. There are no negative outcomes.
I truly feel it has to do with the Puritanical founding of our country. Not necessarily with this specific issue, but more the reason why Americans (as least those in power) are so rigid and defiant when it comes to expanding their moral horizon to suit the needs of a minority (in this case homosexuals).

[saysmydoctor]

I understand the hesitance in repealing DADT. Do I agree with repealing it? Completely. Do I understand the hesitance? Yes.

You talk about codes of conduct. That's true, there are such codes. There are rules against hazing too, and I can comment on my dad coming home and telling me stories of his marines hazing--and sometimes physically harming marines--and that is against those codes of conduct. These aren't 'select' cases though. The stories of hazing are rampant from Gitmo (where he was stationed) to 29 Palms, CA to where we are now. Hazing is universal in the military, even though it is technically against the rules. A Few Good Men, though technically fiction, is a prime example of how the military works (in some ways). There is law in action and the law on the books, the two are not the same.

They still have problems getting Marines and soldiers to stop sexually harassing women within their units. So, in a sense, it's going to take work to indoctrinate the philosophy that though these people have sexual orientations that differ from the 'norm,' they are still brothers and sisters. It's more than sharing barracks. It's sharing close quarters in the field. It's putting your life into another's hand in battle.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the military, I think it's the General Officers' fault that they have allowed the grunts to become these hateful animals. I think we have begun to notice a huge shift in the military and civilian leadership in the policy. Former JCS Chairman is against it, Chairman Mullen is against it, former Defense Secretary Cohen is against it, 28 generals and admirals have come against it. I think the pendulum has swung in reversing the policy. But I understand the hesitance. The military (at least certain branches) is truly an organization as close-minded as the South in 50s and 60s.

I also think people fail to forget that DADT is federal law, not some standing policy. Granted, the president could demand it no longer be enforced via executive order, but to actually completely repeal would call for legislation.

[J.C.]

I don't know what to add other than the policy embarrasses me for my country and history is going to judge us to be retards for it's implementation.

[WhitestKidUKnow]

back in ancient rome I think it was, they encouraged their soldiers to be homosexual. they saw the logic that if they were gay, they would fight harder to protect the ones they loved. and as far as I can see it kinda worked.

that wasn't really on topic, just something interesting that this thread made me think of. but I agree, DADT really should be repealed. I don't see that much changing if it is.

[ostartero]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eros_(mythology)

We get the world Erotic from the greek patron of male love.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_Ancient_Greece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty

Sex between an adult male and a teenage boy was very common throughout the world until Christianity stomped it out.

[saysmydoctor]

Pederasty also known as NAMBLA

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

wow from DADT to Pederasty.

only on AP.

[thespearkid]

I don't know what to add other than the policy embarrasses me for my country and history is going to judge us to be retards for it's implementation.
Yup. I am interested to see what kinds of things history will reflect upon and say, "Well, that was stupid of them."