Richard Gage about 9/11 Collapses and Building 7 on FOX 26

[lfdfforever]

0q_C1RDeE9Y pretty interesting.

[saysmydoctor]

It wasn't a conspiracy, this isn't interesting, lock this stupid fucking topic.

[fightinirish217]

It wasn't a conspiracy, this isn't interesting, lock this stupid fucking topic.

Thank you for saying it before I could.

[Adeniz19]

haha kopi!

[lfdfforever]

It wasn't a conspiracy, this isn't interesting, lock this stupid fucking topic.hahahaha, he didn't say it was a conspiracy. why are you freaking out?

[I'm DC]

It wasn't a conspiracy, this isn't interesting, lock this stupid fucking topic.

No shit. This is the best way to put it!

[lfdfforever]

AIA < AP.net members lol

[Adeniz19]

fires have never brought down a high rise building because fires in high rise buildings haven't burned with fucking jet fuel in the past.

i only got through about a minute of that before i stopped listening.

[saysmydoctor]

hahahaha, he didn't say it was a conspiracy. why are you freaking out?
He didn't say it was conspiracy but he sured did say everything that the conspiracy theorists argue.

There are plenty of architects who claim that the conspiracy theorists are smoking fucking crack. What happened on 9/11 was a tragic fucking attack on our nation. Enough with this fucking bullshit, see you next week when you say JFK was killed by the Illuminati.

[lfdfforever]

no need to get bent out of shape man.i wasn't trying to offend you and sorry if i did but again i think the AIA are pretty creditable.

[KidRobot]

fires have never brought down a high rise building because fires in high rise buildings haven't burned with fucking jet fuel in the past.

i only got through about a minute of that before i stopped listening.

He addresses this at 3:20.

Guess architects and engineers aren't credible anymore.

[saysmydoctor]

Fine. The WTC attacks were a fucking hoax. The government wired the elevator shafts of the twin towers, with over 5000 employees onsight, meanwhile also wired the meaningless building 7 that no one knew about until it fell on national television the evening of 9/11, so that they could draw the attention of conspiracy theorists. They did this so we could invade Afghanistan, and conduct a global war on terrorism that has cost the US over 3500 lives after the fact. Hundreds CIA agents, NSA agents, military intelligence, State department intelligence, the National Security Advisor, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Justice Department lawyers, the White House Council, National Security Council, and FBI were all involved.

The architects are 100% right.

Fucking idiots.

[IAPAI]

fires have never brought down a high rise building because fires in high rise buildings haven't burned with fucking jet fuel in the past.

i only got through about a minute of that before i stopped listening.

What plane hit building 7? Refresh my memory.

LD06SAf0p9A

[IAPAI]

Regardless of whether you believe it's a conspiracy or not, the fact that WTC 7 was completely ignored in the 9/11 Commission should outrage every person with an ounce of intellect, and demand that a legitimate explanation be given.

At least then the "official explanation" will be that the terrorists were far more advanced than most are willing to admit and had the capacity to wire bombs into the buildings. Fine, even if it's bullshit, at least an explanation will be given.

Arguing that the building fell naturally makes anyone look like a fucking moron.

[saysmydoctor]

What plane hit building 7? Refresh my memory.

LD06SAf0p9A
Dude, are you fucking serious? Two towers over 100 stories tall fucking collapsed. The fucking debris cloud fucking spread across lower Manhattan. It damaged the building and fires were present on the lower floors.

[Adeniz19]

What plane hit building 7? Refresh my memory.

LD06SAf0p9Awhat would be the motive of demolishing building 7? how much more can someone gain out of taking out another building when the two biggest building have already gone down?

[saysmydoctor]

Regardless of whether you believe it's a conspiracy or not, the fact that WTC 7 was completely ignored in the 9/11 Commission should outrage every person with an ounce of intellect, and demand that a legitimate explanation be given.

At least then the "official explanation" will be that the terrorists were far more advanced than most are willing to admit and had the capacity to wire bombs into the buildings. Fine, even if it's bullshit, at least an explanation will be given.

Arguing that the building fell naturally makes anyone look like a fucking moron.
http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_june04/appendixl.pdf

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/wtc_qa_082108.html

People who seriously buy this conspiracy theory need to go play in traffic. Seriously, it defies fucking logic. Do you not realize the fucking manpower that would be required to take down two buildings? Then you think they'd waste money and manpower on a tower no one even fucking knew about?

[saysmydoctor]

Also the CIA and DoD had offices in 7WTC, along with INS, IRS, and USSS:

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/tenants7.html
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf

[xshady121]

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/wtc_qa_082108.html

People who seriously buy this conspiracy theory need to go play in traffic. Seriously, it defies fucking logic. Do you not realize the fucking manpower that would be required to take down two buildings? Then you think they'd waste money and manpower on a tower no one even fucking knew about?

Two topics we agree upon in less than 24 hours. Looks like we're not so different after all.

[fightinirish217]

Also the CIA and DoD had offices in 7WTC, along with INS, IRS, and USSS:

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/tenants7.html
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf

Don't even worry about it man, don't waste your time with idiots.

[Machu505]

I don't believe that it was a conspiracy, but you guys just need to calm the fuck down. There's nothing wrong with asking questions, especially when the thing you're questioning is as large as 9/11.

[saysmydoctor]

He wasn't questioning anything. He presented this video and then we rebutted, he basically said we questioning the credibility of architects. He wasn't asking questions, he was taking a video at face value.

[Machu505]

It doesn't have to be him asking the questions. Gage is the one asking the questions and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Yes, some claims are illogical. Yes, some claims are ridiculous. Yes, some claims are just stupid, but even members of the 9/11 Commission admit that some things still need to be made clear. There's no reason to get all bent out of shape about it.

[saysmydoctor]

Yeah, totally don't agree. There are things that are just so radical--like proposing slavery be brought back--that are simply to outrageous to even be given the benefit of the doubt. This, to me, is one of those things. The US Government is a lot of things, but capable of doing this without anyone knowing? Not at all.

[Machu505]

Fine by me.

[Adeniz19]

It doesn't have to be him asking the questions. Gage is the one asking the questions and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Yes, some claims are illogical. Yes, some claims are ridiculous. Yes, some claims are just stupid, but even members of the 9/11 Commission admit that some things still need to be made clear. There's no reason to get all bent out of shape about it.You're right, there is nothing wrong with asking questions, but if people are still asking the same illogical, ridiculous, and stupid questions 8 years later, it can get to be a bit annoying. I'm not saying there aren't valid questions when it comes to 9/11 and that we know the whole truth of what happened that day, but this whole building 7 is ridiculous.

[IAPAI]

You're right, there is nothing wrong with asking questions, but if people are still asking the same illogical, ridiculous, and stupid questions 8 years later, it can get to be a bit annoying. I'm not saying there aren't valid questions when it comes to 9/11 and that we know the whole truth of what happened that day, but this whole building 7 is ridiculous.

Fair enough. However, what I find ridiculous, is that people can watch that video and not question how that building fell.

Let's assume that we go with the theory posted earlier, that the load bearing supports of WTC7 were damaged because of the other towers falling - debris, impact, fire, etc - fair enough reason.
Now, what kind of odds are there that every single load bearing support gives way at the exact same time to allow the building to collapse in upon itself, rather than if only the west wing caved, and it fell to one direction more so. Think about it. Probability-wise, that would never fucking happen. I can't understand how people are so easy to accept that maybe something that had almost no chance of happening just coincidentally happened on a day when a bunch of completely fucked up shit happened.

[saysmydoctor]

Fine. The WTC attacks were a fucking hoax. The government wired the elevator shafts of the twin towers, with over 5000 employees onsight, meanwhile also wired the meaningless building 7 that no one knew about until it fell on national television the evening of 9/11, so that they could draw the attention of conspiracy theorists. They did this so we could invade Afghanistan, and conduct a global war on terrorism that has cost the US over 3500 lives after the fact. Hundreds CIA agents, NSA agents, military intelligence, State department intelligence, the National Security Advisor, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Justice Department lawyers, the White House Council, National Security Council, and FBI were all involved.

The architects are 100% right.

Fucking idiots.
I believe you.

[Adeniz19]

Fair enough. However, what I find ridiculous, is that people can watch that video and not question how that building fell.

Let's assume that we go with the theory posted earlier, that the load bearing supports of WTC7 were damaged because of the other towers falling - debris, impact, fire, etc - fair enough reason.
Now, what kind of odds are there that every single load bearing support gives way at the exact same time to allow the building to collapse in upon itself, rather than if only the west wing caved, and it fell to one direction more so. Think about it. Probability-wise, that would never fucking happen. I can't understand how people are so easy to accept that maybe something that had almost no chance of happening just coincidentally happened on a day when a bunch of completely fucked up shit happened.It doesn't sound like they all did buckle at the exact same time. From saysmydoctor's link from above:

Some people have said that a failure at one column should not have produced a symmetrical fall like this one. What’s your answer to those assertions?

WTC 7’s collapse, viewed from the exterior (most videos were taken from the north), did appear to fall almost uniformly as a single unit. This occurred because the interior failures that took place did not cause the exterior framing to fail until the final stages of the building collapse. The interior floor framing and columns collapsed downward and pulled away from the exterior frame. There were clues that internal damage was taking place, prior to the downward movement of the exterior frame, such as when the east penthouse fell downward into the building and windows broke out on the north face at the ends of the building core. The symmetric appearance of the downward fall of the WTC 7 was primarily due to the greater stiffness and strength of its exterior frame relative to the interior framing.

[lfdfforever]

http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=15 55&category=Science (http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1555&category=Science)

evidence is a bitch
(http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1555&category=Science)

[macabre]

http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=15 55&category=Science (http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1555&category=Science)

evidence is a bitch


I admit I don't know anything about this subject but if you do, I'd recommend reading this.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4607894&postcount=1694

[Adeniz19]

http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=15 55&category=Science (http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1555&category=Science)

evidence is a bitch

Is it possible that thermite or thermate contributed to the collapse of WTC 7?

NIST has looked at the application and use of thermite and has determined that its use to sever columns in WTC 7 on 9/11/01 was unlikely.

Thermite is a combination of aluminum powder and a metal oxide that releases a tremendous amount of heat when ignited. It is typically used to weld railroad rails together by melting a small quantity of steel and pouring the melted steel into a form between the two rails.

To apply thermite to a large steel column, approximately 0.13 lb of thermite would be needed to heat and melt each pound of steel. For a steel column that weighs approximately 1,000 lbs. per foot, at least 100 lbs. of thermite would need to be placed around the column, ignited, and remain in contact with the vertical steel surface as the thermite reaction took place. This is for one column … presumably, more than one column would have been prepared with thermite, if this approach were to be used.

It is unlikely that 100 lbs. of thermite, or more, could have been carried into WTC 7 and placed around columns without being detected, either prior to Sept. 11 or during that day.

Given the fires that were observed that day, and the demonstrated structural response to the fires, NIST does not believe that thermite was used to fail any columns in WTC 7.

Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC buildings, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard used for interior partitions.

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=15 55&category=Science (http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1555&category=Science)

evidence is a bitch
(http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1555&category=Science)
Oh, yeah, what a credible source, a fucking website that fucking spouts alien shit.

Seriously, what the fuck. That's like me linking a white supremacist website trying to prove that the Germans are descendants of the Aryan Race.

[Smeee]

It wasn't a conspiracy, this isn't interesting, lock this stupid fucking topic.

:clap:

[lfdfforever]

Oh, yeah, what a credible source, a fucking website that fucking spouts alien shit.

Seriously, what the fuck. That's like me linking a white supremacist website trying to prove that the Germans are descendants of the Aryan Race. aliens exist

[lfdfforever]

Is it possible that thermite or thermate contributed to the collapse of WTC 7?

NIST has looked at the application and use of thermite and has determined that its use to sever columns in WTC 7 on 9/11/01 was unlikely.

Thermite is a combination of aluminum powder and a metal oxide that releases a tremendous amount of heat when ignited. It is typically used to weld railroad rails together by melting a small quantity of steel and pouring the melted steel into a form between the two rails.

To apply thermite to a large steel column, approximately 0.13 lb of thermite would be needed to heat and melt each pound of steel. For a steel column that weighs approximately 1,000 lbs. per foot, at least 100 lbs. of thermite would need to be placed around the column, ignited, and remain in contact with the vertical steel surface as the thermite reaction took place. This is for one column … presumably, more than one column would have been prepared with thermite, if this approach were to be used.

It is unlikely that 100 lbs. of thermite, or more, could have been carried into WTC 7 and placed around columns without being detected, either prior to Sept. 11 or during that day.

Given the fires that were observed that day, and the demonstrated structural response to the fires, NIST does not believe that thermite was used to fail any columns in WTC 7.

Analysis of the WTC steel for the elements in thermite/thermate would not necessarily have been conclusive. The metal compounds also would have been present in the construction materials making up the WTC buildings, and sulfur is present in the gypsum wallboard used for interior partitions. you're very smart but i'll listen to the AIA over any ap.net member.

[macabre]

you're very smart but i'll listen to the AIA over any ap.net member.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority

[saysmydoctor]

aliens exist

you're very smart but i'll listen to the AIA over any ap.net member.
You are fucking stupid. Seriously, you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. The WTC attacks were not conspired by the federal government. The very idea of them having done defies logic.

[saysmydoctor]

You probably didn't even know what AIA was until you watched that video and now you are putting every ounce of your faith into them.

[lfdfforever]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority 800 architects who have solid evidence or a few duders on a message board arguing with egos and not evidence.

[x togepi x]

what's the point of posting shit like this if you're just going to be like "i'm not going to argue a point and just agree with "experts"? why not just jack off to conspiracy theories in your room by yourself? Whether or not it's true, do you really think you're telling people things they haven't heard before? I've been hearing this building 7 collapse stuff since at least '03.

it's just pointless.

[lfdfforever]

You probably didn't even know what AIA was until you watched that video and now you are putting every ounce of your faith into them.no but nice try

[saysmydoctor]

I heard no evidence in that video, just his theories.

[saysmydoctor]

800 architects who have solid evidence or a few duders on a message board arguing with egos and not evidence.
Appeal to authority...still.

[lfdfforever]

what's the point of posting shit like this if you're just going to be like "i'm not going to argue a point and just agree with "experts"? why not just jack off to conspiracy theories in your room by yourself? Whether or not it's true, do you really think you're telling people things they haven't heard before? I've been hearing this building 7 collapse stuff since at least '03.

it's just pointless. pointless indeed, never should have made this thread :-(

[lfdfforever]

I heard no evidence in that video, just his theories. are you sure? :-p

[jawstheme]

You are fucking stupid. Seriously, you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. The WTC attacks were not conspired by the federal government. The very idea of them having done defies logic.

If the guy is right about 700 architecs and engineers wanting an investigation then I would like to see an investigation too. I'm not blaming the government or the FBI, but it would be nice to know how this happened exactly, considering it is one of the most important events in our country's history.

[macabre]

800 architects who have solid evidence or a few duders on a message board arguing with egos and not evidence.

This argument is fallacious. The truth or falsity of a claim does not depend on an individual or a group's expertise.

[jawstheme]

This argument is fallacious. The truth or falsity of a claim does not depend on an individual or a group's expertise.

What? So the opinions of experts in a field have no more weight than some asshole on a message board?

[x togepi x]

What? So the opinions of experts in a field have no more weight than some asshole on a message board?

On a logical level, no. When you make an argument, you should provide some sort of proof: proof generally being empirical evidence or some sort or reasoning. Merely pointing to the opinion of an expert does not count as proof because experts can be wrong. Just because one is an expert of a field doesn't make them infallible in that field.

I'm sure lots of foreign policy experts thought saddam had wmds, for example.

[jawstheme]

On a logical level, no. When you make an argument, you should provide some sort of proof: proof generally being empirical evidence or some sort or reasoning. Merely pointing to the opinion of an expert does not count as proof because experts can be wrong. Just because one is an expert of a field doesn't make them infallible in that field.

I'm sure lots of foreign policy experts thought saddam had wmds, for example.

Ok, but the fact that 700 architects and engineers are coming forward and saying that there should be an investigation into how exactly the buldings fell should warrant more attention to this. I'm not talking about wacko conspiracy attention, but some type of professional investigation into the collapses. Don't you think the information would be useful for future construction projects atleast? I mean it obviously has these professionals baffled.
I don't think the claims of experts should be immediately dismissed by people who don't have a lot of knowledge about engineering, architecture, and demolition by simply saying "it's ridiculous and stupid."

[macabre]

What? So the opinions of experts in a field have no more weight than some asshole on a message board?

An expert is more often to be right than the average joe in his area of expertise but the actual validity or soundness of an argument cannot depend on expertise. For example, if a Harvard Ph. D. states x is true, when x is actually false then x is false regardless of him being an expert. Likewise, the asshole on the message board can state that x is false and be completely right regardless of his lack of expertise.

Here's a good primer on logical fallacies:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

[lfdfforever]

o3LJXoXpAHE chyeah

[x togepi x]

Ok, but the fact that 700 architects and engineers are coming forward and saying that there should be an investigation into how exactly the buldings fell should warrant more attention to this.

The number of them, as well as the fact that they're supposedly experts is not enough reasoning in itself. can 700 people be wrong? yes.

That's the problem with appeals to authority. What you need to be doing here is using the arguments of the experts instead of saying "well they're experts, so my side is right."

I'm not talking about wacko conspiracy attention, but some type of professional investigation into the collapses. Don't you think the information would be useful for future construction projects atleast? I mean it obviously has these professionals baffled.

how would this info be anymore useful than the tons and tons of information we already have on building demolitions? Buildings falling down is a fairly common thing. Even if you want to go the route of 9/11 being unique because of the situation and whatnot, we still have a lot of research on the manner.

I don't think the claims of experts should be immediately dismissed by people who don't have a lot of knowledge about engineering, architecture, and demolition by simply saying "it's riducilous and stupid."

The dismissals are because you guys aren't arguing the claims of experts. You just found people who agree with your side and are pointing to them to show that you're right. When you're being called an idiot, it's because you're not arguing anything other than the fact that certain professionals think this specific thing about 9/11, which is fairly obvious.

[jawstheme]

An expert is more often to be right than the average joe in his area of expertise but the actual validity or soundness of an argument cannot depend on expertise. For example, if a Harvard Ph. D. states x is true, when x is actually false then x is false regardless of him being an expert. Likewise, the asshole on the message board can state that x is false and be completely right regardless of his lack of expertise.

Here's a good primer on logical fallacies:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

Ok, we're not talking about philosophy class here though. I'm not even saying these guys are correct, but I'm also not so sure the buildings just collapsed from the planes alone. I don't see why there can't be a professional investigation into the matter when there seems to be a legitimate disagreement by experts and assholes alike on what really happened.

[TEAMRAMROD]

o3LJXoXpAHE chyeah
Talk about reaching...

[Love As Arson]

I never received a coherent explanation as to what the goal of the administration was if they did arrange the attacks.

[x togepi x]

I never received a coherent explanation as to what the goal of the administration was if they did arrange the attacks.

or how they pulled them off if they couldn't pull of much simpler things like privatizing social security.

[lfdfforever]

m3MG5vPoV54 8zyjY05wzaothe firefighters who were there in the buildings are probably wrong too lol

[x togepi x]

m3MG5vPoV54 argue this.

this is actually quite easy since there's tons of empirical examples of eyewitness accounts being wrong for various psychological factors in situations of high stress.

[drewz5]

http://16.media.tumblr.com/b9vfl4b63o5qede3lwCAJJwZo1_500.jpg

This Is All Kinds Of Wrong of the Day: JUNIOR* Academy for Art Direction, The Netherlands, for The History Channel.
9/11 — you know, for kids!

[jawstheme]

The number of them, as well as the fact that they're supposedly experts is not enough reasoning in itself. can 700 people be wrong? yes.

That's the problem with appeals to authority. What you need to be doing here is using the arguments of the experts instead of saying "well they're experts, so my side is right."



how would this info be anymore useful than the tons and tons of information we already have on building demolitions? Buildings falling down is a fairly common thing. Even if you want to go the route of 9/11 being unique because of the situation and whatnot, we still have a lot of research on the manner.



The dismissals are because you guys aren't arguing the claims of experts. You just found people who agree with your side and are pointing to them to show that you're right. When you're being called an idiot, it's because you're not arguing anything other than the fact that certain professionals think this specific thing about 9/11, which is fairly obvious.

Ok, so you can call me an idiot because I'm not an expert in archiecture and engineering and I just trust that they might know what they are talking about? Well, what are you an expert at, calling people an idiot and dismissing things for no good reason?
And information on the building collapses would be useful because it might show where the weakpoints were on the buildings, and maybe show what we could do to prevent a collapse like this again. I don't understant why an investigation would be completely useless. There's nothing wrong with new information. The only bad thing that would come from it is that it would get these crazy conspiracy idiots going crazy thinking that we are going to find aliens controlling our country and attacking our own people, or some stupid shit like that.

[lfdfforever]

this is actually quite easy since there's tons of empirical examples of eyewitness accounts being wrong for various psychological factors in situations of high stress.so every firefighter who talked in those two videos were wrong?

[x togepi x]

Ok, so you can call me an idiot because I'm not an expert in archiecture and engineering and I just trust that they might know what they are talking about?

Are you bothering to read anything at all?

Anyone, regardless of intelligence as long as they're literate, can point to the opinion of an "expert" and say "omg i'm right." What requires intelligence is processing the information an "expert" gives you and repeating it in your own words so that you can argue their position with someone else. All you guys are really doing is pointing out that there are experts who think like you do. Cool. We already knew that.

But, you're not actually arguing their points in a way that has any backing.

Well, what are you an expert at, calling people an idiot and dismissing things for no good reason?

yeah, actually. though i haven't really dismissed anything. i just said you're not proving anything by saying experts exist. cool.

And information on the building collapses would be useful because it might show where the weakpoints were on the buildings, and maybe show what we could do to prevent a collapse like this again.

how does this differ from every other collapse ever? how does is this info unique from what we could have already derived from an understanding of physics and engingeering?

I don't understant why an investigation would be completely useless. There's nothing wrong with new information.

I don't think it would really give us new information, hence my questions.

The only bad thing that would come from it is that it would get these crazy conspiracy idiots going crazy thinking that we are going to find aliens controlling our country and attacking our own people, or some stupid shit like that.

This would happen.

[x togepi x]

so every firefighter who talked in those two videos were wrong?
http://books.google.com/books?id=f7T7td6wf-IC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=why+eyewitness+accounts+can+be+w rong&source=bl&ots=0lZi2QZgPV&sig=ma_tgXNu6e8gKaLLRx_B-WhQWCo&hl=en&ei=gOsiSpSRJYnYMY_c-bIJ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4852622n

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/06/60minutes/main4848039.shtml

Nobody has ever believed that just because someone was in a situation, that their recollection/perspective is infallible. 9/11 was insanely stressful for those firefighters, emotions were running high, nobody knew what the fuck was going on, i think those factors make it pretty easy for their making a mistake.

[lfdfforever]

http://books.google.com/books?id=f7T7td6wf-IC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=why+eyewitness+accounts+can+be+w rong&source=bl&ots=0lZi2QZgPV&sig=ma_tgXNu6e8gKaLLRx_B-WhQWCo&hl=en&ei=gOsiSpSRJYnYMY_c-bIJ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4852622n

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/06/60minutes/main4848039.shtml

Nobody has ever believed that just because someone was in a situation, that their recollection/perspective is infallible. 9/11 was insanely stressful for those firefighters, emotions were running high, nobody knew what the fuck was going on, i think those factors make it pretty easy for their making a mistake. no one is credible, even people who were there hahahahaha

[x togepi x]

no one is credible, even people who were there hahahahaha

this is why people call you an idiot.

[lfdfforever]

this is why people call you an idiot. i used to like you lol

[jawstheme]

Are you bothering to read anything at all?

Anyone, regardless of intelligence as long as they're literate, can point to the opinion of an "expert" and say "omg i'm right." What requires intelligence is processing the information an "expert" gives you and repeating it in your own words so that you can argue their position with someone else. All you guys are really doing is pointing out that there are experts who think like you do. Cool. We already knew that.

But, you're not actually arguing their points in a way that has any backing.



yeah, actually. though i haven't really dismissed anything. i just said you're not proving anything by saying experts exist. cool.



how does this differ from every other collapse ever? how does is this info unique from what we could have already derived from an understanding of physics and engingeering?



I don't think it would really give us new information, hence my questions.



This would happen.

Apparently the general thought as to why the buildings fell is that it was a combination of jet fuel and office fires that burned hot enough to melt to the steel. Well, neither jet fuel nor office fires are supposed to be able to possibly burn that hot. So maybe an investigation is necessary to see exactly how the buildings fell. You say that it's the same as other collapses but what other collapses were caused by fucking airplanes crashing into buildings? If the investigation shows that the fires were indeed hot enough to melt the steel then it could be useful for fire safety construction purposes. If the fires are found to not be the cause, but explosives were, then it would be useful to know how terrorists infiltrated security to plant explosives, for future terrorist prevention. It would suck to have crazy conspiracy theorists having orgasms over this investigation for a while, but when the cause does not back their theories they might shut up.

[x togepi x]

i used to like you lol

You're completely disregarding anything anyone says. I never said the firefighters weren't credible. I said that it's possible that they could be wrong, then posted an article out of a book, a video and an article talking about the same sorts of things, as well as tried to explain it. Your response was something a 10 year old could make.

Considering there's tons of cases where people think they've been robbed/raped/whatever by the wrong person, or got key elements of a crime they witnessed completely wrong, it's logical to say that merely being in a place for something doesn't make you right.

Do i think they're wrong? meh, who cares? You just haven't given an argument besides "look i can find someone on the internet who agrees with what i'm saying".

[lfdfforever]

You're completely disregarding anything anyone says. I never said the firefighters weren't credible. I said that it's possible that they could be wrong, then posted an article out of a book, a video and an article talking about the same sorts of things, as well as tried to explain it. Your response was something a 10 year old could make.

Considering there's tons of cases where people think they've been robbed/raped/whatever by the wrong person, or got key elements of a crime they witnessed completely wrong, it's logical to say that merely being in a place for something doesn't make you right.

Do i think they're wrong? meh, who cares? You just haven't given an argument besides "look i can find someone on the internet who agrees with what i'm saying".that's actually a really good point. i'm not very good when it comes to arguing on message boards, but i'm pretty decent when it comes to face to face communication.

[macabre]

Our government is controlled by Human/Reptile hybrids called Reptilians who are bent on global domination.

Here's proof:
http://www.greatdreams.com/reptlan/reps.htm

This guy is an expert in the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

Oh, here's a video:
ctIpUmJjkAs

A video of a guy that was abducted by a Reptilian being (You calling him a liar?):
Cr6ITxz-6S8

If you haven't accepted the truth yet, I suggest you get your head examined. They're among us!

[Adeniz19]

you're very smart but i'll listen to the AIA over any ap.net member.haha it's not like i'm quoting a bunch of amatuers. I'd say the NIST is just as, if not more credible than AIA.

[Adeniz19]

If the guy is right about 700 architecs and engineers wanting an investigation then I would like to see an investigation too. I'm not blaming the government or the FBI, but it would be nice to know how this happened exactly, considering it is one of the most important events in our country's history.There has been an investigation and those questions I'm quoting are from that said investigation.

I wonder if there is a list somewhere with architects and engineers that think this is all a bunch of bologna, and if they outnumber the people who believe in this conspiracy.

[GuitarR0cker1]

aliens exist
YEAH CUZ BLINK-182 SEZ SO!:
9_iPKMu96pY

[lfdfforever]

took long enough

[stupidtyonparad]

good for this fucking guy, hope he doesnt get shot

[kwsqd]

Aren't you the same guy who posted a picture in personal life asking people if they want to cuddle with you?

[stupidtyonparad]

if that post was in regard to me.....no. it wasnt and i have no idea what you're talking about.

[saysmydoctor]

This dumb fucking topic is still going?

[TEAMRAMROD]

Apparently.

[kwsqd]

if that post was in regard to me.....no. it wasnt and i have no idea what you're talking about.
No, haha sorry that was for the OP.

[lfdfforever]

Aren't you the same guy who posted a picture in personal life asking people if they want to cuddle with you? yes