Affirmative Action

[WithStamin]

What does everyone think?

I personally believe that it is modern day racism. What it is saying is that minorities can't achieve enough on their own, so they need help. It's also reverse discrimination, discriminating against the majority.

[evil zach]

I'm kinda on the fence. On the one hand, to be truly equal, minorities shouldn't be given special concideration of the majorty. But at the same time, it prevent racist and sexist hiring practices

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by WithStamin
What does everyone think?

I personally believe that it is modern day racism. What it is saying is that minorities can't achieve enough on their own, so they need help. It's also reverse discrimination, discriminating against the majority.
I myself am at the shithole of affirmative action. I'm white, I'm male, I'm straight, I'm a Christian, I have no physical disablities and my parents make a decent living. This helps me out in no way whatsoever. Yes I am a majority, but thats no reason to treat me differently. People these days are so worried about offending a black or gay or handicapped person that they will discrimintate against me. The ACLU sucks cock. Jesse Jackson sucks cock. Both of them support affirmative action. Jesse Jackson has sued/threatened to sue hundreds of people/orginizations because they didnt hire a black person. He wanted the Detroit Lions to undergo some sort of punishment for not looking for a black coach to fill their job. If you are gay, black, Muslim, handicapped or any other sort of minority you have it made. Why isnt college or jobs based on performance anymore? If a black person or gay person is more qualified than I am for a job, fine, let them have it. But if I am more qualified than they are, but they get a job over me because they are black or gay I will be pissed. There is no need for affirmative action, its just another form of racism.

[The Nephilm]

I've actually done a lot of research on the subject, and there are definate arguments to both sides. However, since there are more poor minorities that have worse schooling/aid/resources I personally believe that it is fair to let a black kid from compton with a 4.2 into school ahead of a white kid from Beverly Hills with a 4.3 into Stanford.

[The Nephilm]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
If you are gay, black, Muslim, handicapped or any other sort of minority you have it made.

No, you will be discriminated against throughout your entire life, most likely be poorer to begin with than white people, and have a lot harder time succeeding in school because of the constant problems you face everyday that white people usually DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT.

White people generally adhere to the Standpoint Theory... that is they only see the world as it pertains to them. However minorities have to see their world as well as the white society because what white society does dictates their lives.

I say give these minority groups a chance. Hell I didn't make it into Stanford and it was probably because of affirmative action. But I don't get upset about it.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
I've actually done a lot of research on the subject, and there are definate arguments to both sides. However, since there are more poor minorities that have worse schooling/aid/resources I personally believe that it is fair to let a black kid from compton with a 4.2 into school ahead of a white kid from Beverly Hills with a 4.3 into Stanford.
First of all, what is a 4.2? GPA? 4.0 is the highest man. And if some one managed to pull off a 4.2 or a 4.3, both could get into any school they wanted. If the kid from beverly hills is more qualified than the person from compton, beverly hills kid deserves it more. And vice versa. Now if both of them were equally qualified, I would have no problem giving it to the minority or underprivleged. But if one person is even the slightest bit more qualified, they deserve it.

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
I've actually done a lot of research on the subject, and there are definate arguments to both sides. However, since there are more poor minorities that have worse schooling/aid/resources I personally believe that it is fair to let a black kid from compton with a 4.2 into school ahead of a white kid from Beverly Hills with a 4.3 into Stanford. You're talking about a black kid from Crompton and a white kid from Beverly Hills. You have to remember: not all blacks are from Crompton. Not all whites are from Beverly Hills. It's as simple as this: You're black. Ding! 15 points towards acceptance at University of Michigan. Do you know how much your SAT score is worth? 8 points. A black kid from the exact same economic situation as a white kid who performed the same, if not better, in school, will be accepted every single time. How is that fair?

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
No, you will be discriminated against throughout your entire life, most likely be poorer to begin with than white people, and have a lot harder time succeeding in school because of the constant problems you face everyday that white people usually DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT.

White people generally adhere to the Standpoint Theory... that is they only see the world as it pertains to them. However minorities have to see their world as well as the white society because what white society does dictates their lives.

I say give these minority groups a chance. Hell I didn't make it into Stanford and it was probably because of affirmative action. But I don't get upset about it.
I know about it. Poorness and racism. For the first eight years of my life I grew up in the "ghetto" of my town. The population of my neighborhood was easily 80 percent blacks. My best friend was black when I grew up. They face problems just like any other person. My family was dirt poor. So was everyone else in my neighborhood. So dont tell me I dont know what its like to live like them, because I do. I've seen both sides of the fence.

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
No, you will be discriminated against throughout your entire life, most likely be poorer to begin with than white people, and have a lot harder time succeeding in school because of the constant problems you face everyday that white people usually DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT.

White people generally adhere to the Standpoint Theory... that is they only see the world as it pertains to them. However minorities have to see their world as well as the white society because what white society does dictates their lives.

I say give these minority groups a chance. Hell I didn't make it into Stanford and it was probably because of affirmative action. But I don't get upset about it. Minority groups have a chance. They have the exact same chance that everyone else has. Just because someone might be racist in their school doesn't disable their ability to suceed. Anyone can get acess to a public school and get good grades and get into a college. Race should not be a factor; the people who work the hardest deserve their spot.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by evil zach
I'm kinda on the fence. On the one hand, to be truly equal, minorities shouldn't be given special concideration of the majorty. But at the same time, it prevent racist and sexist hiring practices
It doesnt prevent racist and sexist hiring, it promotes it, however agaist an unusall target. And sexist hiring is needed in some jobs ie. Frontline soldiers or firefighters. And thats just because of the way god built us. If a woman is just as strong as a man and can do the same job, but if not they shouldnt get hired, especially just because they are a woman. Some fire stations have installed separate standards for women and men. Men have to carry a hundred pound weight with them as they do their passing test, women carry fifty. Not fair. Yes women arent built the same, and thats why the shouldnt be firefighters. When it comes to saving lives i dont give a damn about fairness. Some people are just built to do certain things. The work place doesnt need an accurate representation of the population in the office. Some genders/races happen to be better at certain things. If you (not directly aimed at anyone) bitching about equal representation in the work place, why isnt the NBA 70% white?

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by evil zach
I'm kinda on the fence. On the one hand, to be truly equal, minorities shouldn't be given special concideration of the majorty. But at the same time, it prevent racist and sexist hiring practices There are already systems that prevent racist/sexist hiring practices. It's called the law. A system that favors one race over another (affirmative action) is also racist.

[The Nephilm]

You guys seriously need to go read "A Hope In The Unseen" and then tell me it is just as easy for minority groups to do well in high school as it is for advantaged white kids.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
You guys seriously need to go read "A Hope In The Unseen" and then tell me it is just as easy for minority groups to do well in high school as it is for advantaged white kids.
Dont say advantaged white kids. Some kids who are poor are white too. The reason minorities dont do well in schools is because they have been brought up to believe that school isnt going to help them. it has nothing to do with anything else. if you put your mind to it you can succeed in school, simply put.

[WithStamin]

You guys seriously need to go read "A Hope In The Unseen" and then tell me it is just as easy for minority groups to do well in high school as it is for advantaged white kids. Look, I'm sure that there are plenty of sad stories about black kids who were victims of racism. Cry me a river. What matters in college and in the workplace is if you can perform or not. If you get bad grades, you probably can't perform.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Look, I'm sure that there are plenty of sad stories about black kids who were victims of racism. Cry me a river. What matters in college and in the workplace is if you can perform or not. If you get bad grades, you probbly can't perform.
I agree with you, but dammit man ease up on the sarcasm. Kids are underprivleged, yes. But that doesnt mean they cant turn it around. I grew up poor for a while, and I have a 3.9 GPA, funny, huh? And I am taking advanced placement classes. I am one year ahead in both maths and sciences. Pretty good for a poor boy.

[Kingskank]

im not a big fan of the whole affirmative action stuff...in terms of hiring practices..why would a black man want to work for someone that wants to, or doesnt wantto hire him because he is black...if someone is in management in this day and age, and wants to hire someone that is white...well the guy earned his management distinction, heshould be able to hire whoever he wants...but who the hell would want to work for a racist asshole like that anyway?

As for the detroit lions case that was brought up..i dont understand that at all, why should i pretend to be interested in hiring someone else when i want steve mariccui as my coach? When lebron james is going to be drafted, do we make the team drafting pretend to want a white guy, just to be equal? Because the last time i checked whites were in the minority in basketball, and there isnt any affirmative white-tion going on there.

While we're on the topic of "equality" in sports.....how is it equal for women to play in the males professional golf league, and for haley wickenheiser (canadians will know who i mean) to play professional mens hockey in europe. Can a man play in a womens league? no. But if the womens not allowed to play in the mens league, then martha burk starts throwing law suits all over the place....which carries me on to another point...Augusta should be allowed to have whatever type of members it wants...a private club is exactly that...

sorry, i got going and i couldnt stop...

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
I agree with you, but dammit man ease up on the sarcasm. Kids are underprivleged, yes. But that doesnt mean they cant turn it around. I grew up poor for a while, and I have a 3.9 GPA, funny, huh? And I am taking advanced placement classes. I am one year ahead in both maths and sciences. Pretty good for a poor boy. The only sarcastic part was "cry me a river"... What are you talking about?

[morning after]

The whole concept is hypocritical...you're trying not to discriminate against the minority group or individual by discriminating against a group or individual that is the majority....its self defeating if you ask me

life isnt fair and things will always be unequal...we do not live in a perfect society without classes, its completely the opposite way...being a white, upper class male, I really dont know the struggle of equal rights, only what I see and believe...but I do think that life is what you make of it and you cannot rely on others to create opportunities for you...you live your life for youself and no one else

How can a company or organization be run successfully when they are forced to fill a quota of potentially less qualified workers and turn away more qualified applicants b/c they are apart of the majority

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by morning after
The whole concept is hypocritical...you're trying not to discriminate against the minority group or individual by discriminating against a group or individual that is the majority....its self defeating if you ask me

life isnt fair and things will always be unequal...we do not live in a perfect society without classes, its completely the opposite way...being a white, upper class male, I really dont know the struggle of equal rights, only what I see and believe...but I do think that life is what you make of it and you cannot rely on others to create opportunities for you...you live your life for youself and no one else

How can a company or organization be run successfully when they are forced to fill a quota of potentially less qualified workers and turn away more qualified applicants b/c they are apart of the majority
Perfectly said! That is the truth.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by The Nephilm

I say give these minority groups a chance. Hell I didn't make it into Stanford and it was probably because of affirmative action. But I don't get upset about it.

I agree with ya, minorities do need some kind of help getting a better education, but i think it should be more base on where there from, then there race, because there are minorities that have privallages.

But the job place is a different thing, it should be more base on ability rather then race.

Also was that the first time you didn't get up set about something? (just a joke)

[morning after]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
Perfectly said! That is the truth.

Thanks

[morning after]

Originally posted by Justin_stacy
I agree with ya, minorities do need some kind of help getting a better education, but i think it should be more base on where there from, then there race, because there are minorities that have privallages.

But the job place is a different thing, it should be more base on ability rather then race.

Also was that the first time you didn't get up set about something? (just a joke)

America's whole K-12 education system needs to be better...compared to the rest of the world we are seriously lacking in alot of areas

[Kingskank]

the city i live in...has very few black families...and i went to catholic highschool...so that brought the number down to 3 black families in my highschool

So i asked my friend, who is black...and an obvious minority...if he grew up any different than me...he said he got some wierd looks when he was a kid, but other than that, me and him grew up exactly the same...same oppurtunities, same friends, same education.

my point is...as long as the people who are the majority, act like it gives them some sort of devine right, as long as we have to classify groups under the distinction of minority...there is always going to be the need to level the playing field somehow. If white america were to treat everyone as humans rather than as white humans and the leftover minority, then people wouldnt have to say "oh the minority candidate deserves more consideration"... it would be "oh that guys got a 3.9, fuck the guy with the 3.7".

Of course i guess there is a difference between a 60000 people canadian town...and the heart of compton, but im allowed to be naive and ideal here.

[Justin_stacy]

Originally posted by morning after
America's whole K-12 education system needs to be better...compared to the rest of the world we are seriously lacking in alot of areas

Its not always a lack of money but rather, a lack of quality school board members.

[The Nephilm]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Look, I'm sure that there are plenty of sad stories about black kids who were victims of racism. Cry me a river. What matters in college and in the workplace is if you can perform or not. If you get bad grades, you probably can't perform.

The book isn't about racism. It specifically focuses on Cedric, a poor black kid who lives in D.C who desperately wants to go to MIT, and has the brains to do it. However his school doesn't have

a) Computers

b) AP tets

c) Teachers who care

d) SAT prep courses

e) An adequit library

f) Expectations for students to do more in education than graduate from high school
etc. etc. etc.

Now, a lot of minorities have to live in environments like this. They aren't in the same situation as the rest of the country. They deserve help, and since your shoddy president won't give inner city schools any fucking help, he should at least give them a chance in college.

[The Nephilm]

Originally posted by BrandNewRock05
I grew up poor for a while, and I have a 3.9 GPA, funny, huh? And I am taking advanced placement classes. I am one year ahead in both maths and sciences. Pretty good for a poor boy.

A lot of kids can't take AP classes, or have computers, or calculators, of even fucking pencils.

[dorkisme123]

Affirmative Action is racist. Applying for colleges and jobs should be based on abilities and accomplishments alone. I think that we shouldn't have to put our race or religion on applications. Then it would be truely "fair".

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
The book isn't about racism. It specifically focuses on Cedric, a poor black kid who lives in D.C who desperately wants to go to MIT, and has the brains to do it. However his school doesn't have

a) Computers

b) AP tets

c) Teachers who care

d) SAT prep courses

e) An adequit library

f) Expectations for students to do more in education than graduate from high school
etc. etc. etc.

Now, a lot of minorities have to live in environments like this. They aren't in the same situation as the rest of the country. They deserve help, and since your shoddy president won't give inner city schools any fucking help, he should at least give them a chance in college.
Thats public schoolings fault, not racism. He just happens to go to a poor school. He can always transfer to another school with all of that stuff. If he has good grades and brings up the point of "hey we dont have teachers who care and computers and all that other stuff" they would let him into another school. But to give him a step on everyone else is bogus.

[WithStamin]

Originally posted by The Nephilm
The book isn't about racism. It specifically focuses on Cedric, a poor black kid who lives in D.C who desperately wants to go to MIT, and has the brains to do it. However his school doesn't have

a) Computers

b) AP tets

c) Teachers who care

d) SAT prep courses

e) An adequit library

f) Expectations for students to do more in education than graduate from high school
etc. etc. etc.

Now, a lot of minorities have to live in environments like this. They aren't in the same situation as the rest of the country. They deserve help, and since your shoddy president won't give inner city schools any fucking help, he should at least give them a chance in college. Even if all this is true, that doesn't make the case for affirmative action. There a plenty of black kids living in upper-middle class homes in the suberbs. Should that black kid, in the same economic situation as a white kid, always get priority over the white kid even if he's getting worse grades? It's over-generalizing to say that bad schools hurt only blacks.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by WithStamin
Even if all this is true, that doesn't make the case for affirmative action. There a plenty of black kids living in upper-middle class homes in the suberbs. Should that black kid, in the same economic situation as a white kid, always get priority over the white kid even if he's getting worse grades? It's over-generalizing to say that bad schools hurt only blacks.
bingo

[LeftCoastEnvius]

As far as affirmative action goes, i hate it. Considering I'm a white male from the suburbs, it in no way helps me. I could work my ass off in school, get better grades then the chinese kid sitting next to me in class, and he's gonna get into MSU and not me, because they have to let in more minorites, which is crap. Believe me, im not racist, it just makes me mad that minorities get so much more consideration for things like college and jobs when they may not even be the better student or prospective employee.

[BrandNewRock05]

Originally posted by LeftCoastEnvius
As far as affirmative action goes, i hate it. Considering I'm a white male from the suburbs, it in no way helps me. I could work my ass off in school, get better grades then the chinese kid sitting next to me in class, and he's gonna get into MSU and not me, because they have to let in more minorites, which is crap. Believe me, im not racist, it just makes me mad that minorities get so much more consideration for things like college and jobs when they may not even be the better student or prospective employee.
thank you, thats how i feel

[WithStamin]

The Supreme Court is finally hearing a case about Affirmative Action. It's about time.