Democrat Delemia

[sainttw]

Reading the past few threads and being a large republican myself, I think it is safe to say that most democrats are absoulute idiots when it comes to dealing with the average man and forigen policy.

Yes, I do realize that people are going to go nuts over this post but some of you "punks" have to start thinkig for yourself and become a republican.

P.S. My favorite band is Green Day, I swear

[ClapClapSnap]

hah, oh dear...spell check whaat?

[Dan Hollister]

A lot of people think that the guys out in the midwest are die-hard religious zealot republicans or something, which is just not true. In reality, the average American does fall somewhere in the middle... usually a moderate conservative. And that is where I personally feel the answers lie. I feel those who are full-throttle raging environmentalist liberals would turn this country into a disaster area, but at the same time, I don't like what a lot of the overly-religious hardcore republicans try to take us, either. I think the republicans are more realistic about many topics, but neither party has all the answers. Somewhere in the middle... that's where the magic happens.

Now if only both parties would let us actually get to that point.

[gillianhsieh]

most democrats are from urban areas while most republicans are from rural areas, and it is naive to say that people from large cities are out of touch with the "average" individual. and foreign policy, i mean, the current republican administration isn't doing so hot in foreign policy either.

[Dan Hollister]

Well, the democrats are largely out of touch. That alone is demonstrated by the amount of republican voters in this country. If all the big cities are democratic, why do they keep losing? As I said, the average American is moderate. One big problem is the democrats largely do not accept those. The democrats, these days at least, spend more time bashing the other side than actually doing anything useful. Instead of trying to appeal to the needs of the majority, they complain about how all the people in the red states are "dumb." As if that's an excuse. That is not a way to get anything done, and that, my friend, is naive.

[PyRoPeNgUiN]

The democrats, these days at least, spend more time bashing the other side than actually doing anything useful. Instead of trying to appeal to the needs of the majority, they complain about how all the people in the red states are "dumb." As if that's an excuse. That is not a way to get anything done, and that, my friend, is naive.
Very well put and the truth for that matter

[getupkid53]

You said most people fall in the middle... usually towards the conservative side. While I am one, that's still biased. You're first assertion is correct, most people tend towards the middle, but, fall on both sides.

You're next argument.... Democrats are out of touch is absurd. You just said most people were in the middle and then you say the above which clearly singles out crazies like Clinton (woman), Dean, and Kennedy. If you want to make that statement, I could say, Republicans are out of touch (citing pat robertson, jerry fallwell, and Alan Keys).

Like you said there are some idiot out there, but they fall on both sides. The crazy leftists call red states dumb.... then the crazy prominent right wingers prove them right by getting caught up in huge scandals, which only fuels there fire. It doesn't help when you have a president who defends and touts incompetence (ehem... Fema director Brown)....

I'm not even taking sides here, I'm just saying you are definitely being bias, and I'm just calling you out on your errors.

And reading the title makes me think that large (fat?) republicans are absolute idiots when it comes to spelling and grammar.

[Trainsaw]

Well, the democrats are largely out of touch. That alone is demonstrated by the amount of republican voters in this country. If all the big cities are democratic, why do they keep losing? As I said, the average American is moderate. One big problem is the democrats largely do not accept those. The democrats, these days at least, spend more time bashing the other side than actually doing anything useful. Instead of trying to appeal to the needs of the majority, they complain about how all the people in the red states are "dumb." As if that's an excuse. That is not a way to get anything done, and that, my friend, is naive.
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha yeah, right.

[selftitled85]

Well, the democrats are largely out of touch. That alone is demonstrated by the amount of republican voters in this country. If all the big cities are democratic, why do they keep losing? As I said, the average American is moderate. One big problem is the democrats largely do not accept those. The democrats, these days at least, spend more time bashing the other side than actually doing anything useful. Instead of trying to appeal to the needs of the majority, they complain about how all the people in the red states are "dumb." As if that's an excuse. That is not a way to get anything done, and that, my friend, is naive.


you have it completely backwards. the democrats pretty much had a sweep in the elections because all the repub candidates did was bash the democrat. while the democrat showed what he/she was going to do in office.

and most big cities are democratic since the democrats hold most of the minority vote. penn was won by the dems primarily because of phily and pitt.

[VinnyVegas]

Reading the past few threads and being a large republican myself, I think it is safe to say that most democrats are absoulute idiots when it comes to dealing with the average man and forigen policy.

Yes, I do realize that people are going to go nuts over this post but some of you "punks" have to start thinkig for yourself and become a republican.

P.S. My favorite band is Green Day, I swear

Start thinking for yourself and become an independent...

[preppyak]

Start thinking for yourself and become an independent...
to be fair, I wish he would just stop thinking, it's probably not much of a leap.

Either that or spell dilemna right, one of the two

[FScott]

ahahaha

[noodledancer]

d-i-l-e-m-m-a. what's that spell?

[lightcollapse]

haaa

read the truth by al franken.

i love al franken. he is an american hero.

[Manbotisdead]

Reading the past few threads and being a large republican myself, I think it is safe to say that most democrats are absoulute idiots when it comes to dealing with the average man and forigen policy.

Yes, I do realize that people are going to go nuts over this post but some of you "punks" have to start thinkig for yourself and become a republican.

P.S. My favorite band is Green Day, I swear

I'm not a punk, and i think I lean towards liberals because i am a forward and free thinking individual.

first of all, I'm not sure how old you are, but your spelling indicates you are about 12. the reason i bring up age is to wonder if you were alive and concious during Ronald Reagan's administration. Are you aware that the gap dividing the rich and the poor became the highest it had ever been. If you are still a little confused that means the rich got richer and the poor got poorer and the average man lost some of it to the rich people as well.

On the subject of foreign policy, have you seen world opinion of the US lately? Our strong arm tactics have not only the mideast parts of asia and france angry, but also the majority of europe. In addition, the bush adminstration has invaded, made threats against, and alienated anyone who has worked doutside of their thinking and policy.

Sir it seems to me you have an opinion, and that is admirable and something that i know will not change; but please respect mine and many others and understand we aren't pulling it out of our asses. We have reason and fact behind us.

[calebus]

anyone that can think knows how flawed and useless the entire party system is anyway. Anyone who believes their party is any better or less corrupt isn't living in the real world. Since when did being a democrat or republican mean more than the ideas that are being voted on. It ridiculous that parties will take one side in an arguement just because the other party has the opposite beliefs.

[Cal Smith]

I'm not a punk, and i think I lean towards liberals because i am a forward and free thinking individual.

first of all, I'm not sure how old you are, but your spelling indicates you are about 12. the reason i bring up age is to wonder if you were alive and concious during Ronald Reagan's administration. Are you aware that the gap dividing the rich and the poor became the highest it had ever been. If you are still a little confused that means the rich got richer and the poor got poorer and the average man lost some of it to the rich people as well.

Are you aware that, that gap continued to grow even through the Clinton administration?

On the subject of foreign policy, have you seen world opinion of the US lately? Our strong arm tactics have not only the mideast parts of asia and france angry, but also the majority of europe. In addition, the bush adminstration has invaded, made threats against, and alienated anyone who has worked doutside of their thinking and policy.

Sir it seems to me you have an opinion, and that is admirable and something that i know will not change; but please respect mine and many others and understand we aren't pulling it out of our asses. We have reason and fact behind us.

Wait......was world opinion of the US much better in the past?

[commatosa]

Are you aware that, that gap continued to grow even through the Clinton administration?



Wait......was world opinion of the US much better in the past?

yeah, actually it was. Before dubbya came along, the rest of the world admired us and pretty much considered us a very rational country. Now everyone sees us as being a bunch of gung-ho cowboys that spread "democracy" through force. Before George W came along, us guys could go up to Canada and the chicks loved american boys. Now you go up there and everyone thinks you're a retard....seriously.

[Justin_stacy]

You said most people fall in the middle... usually towards the conservative side. While I am one, that's still biased. You're first assertion is correct, most people tend towards the middle, but, fall on both sides. .

How is that bias? Statistically its true most Americans fall to the right side of center. Polls have shown that America breaks down 40, 40, 20…conservative, independent, liberal. So to say that most people tend to fall in the dead center of the political spectrum really isn’t being honest or factual.

Regardless of whether Democrats or Republicans are in office we are a conservative nation, and therefore the “middle” (or moderate) point is slightly more to the right, here, then on a true political spectrum line. Exactly as was previously stated.

you have it completely backwards. the democrats pretty much had a sweep in the elections because all the repub candidates did was bash the democrat. while the democrat showed what he/she was going to do in office.
.

You must have your head so far up your ass the smells affecting your judgment.....if you really believe what you wrote above you're about as dumb as the individual that started this thread.

[splitsecond]

Democrats themselves are'nt necessarily out of touch - but they're party leadership sure as shit is. Its sad really because there are a lot of decent democrats being ignored in favor of one further on the left and way out of touch, like the Kerry's and Clintons and Kennedys.

[Cal Smith]

yeah, actually it was. Before dubbya came along, the rest of the world admired us and pretty much considered us a very rational country. Now everyone sees us as being a bunch of gung-ho cowboys that spread "democracy" through force. Before George W came along, us guys could go up to Canada and the chicks loved american boys. Now you go up there and everyone thinks you're a retard....seriously.

yes, yes......the middle east, france and other eastern european countries loved us before Bush.........................

[gillianhsieh]

yea i mean, even if the middle east, france, and eastern european nations didn't like us before bush's administration, now even more countries don't like us. it's kind of unreasonable for you to expect middle eastern countries that we were bombing before to like the united states, but american foreign policy has alienated essentially anyone in the UN minus tony blair who doesn't represent britain very well.

[justinevans]

You said most people fall in the middle... usually towards the conservative side. While I am one, that's still biased. You're first assertion is correct, most people tend towards the middle, but, fall on both sides.

You're next argument.... Democrats are out of touch is absurd. You just said most people were in the middle and then you say the above which clearly singles out crazies like Clinton (woman), Dean, and Kennedy. If you want to make that statement, I could say, Republicans are out of touch (citing pat robertson, jerry fallwell, and Alan Keys).

Like you said there are some idiot out there, but they fall on both sides. The crazy leftists call red states dumb.... then the crazy prominent right wingers prove them right by getting caught up in huge scandals, which only fuels there fire. It doesn't help when you have a president who defends and touts incompetence (ehem... Fema director Brown)....

I'm not even taking sides here, I'm just saying you are definitely being bias, and I'm just calling you out on your errors.

And reading the title makes me think that large (fat?) republicans are absolute idiots when it comes to spelling and grammar.

Their fire, not there

[justinevans]

I'm not a punk, and i think I lean towards liberals because i am a forward and free thinking individual.

first of all, I'm not sure how old you are, but your spelling indicates you are about 12. the reason i bring up age is to wonder if you were alive and concious during Ronald Reagan's administration. Are you aware that the gap dividing the rich and the poor became the highest it had ever been. If you are still a little confused that means the rich got richer and the poor got poorer and the average man lost some of it to the rich people as well.

On the subject of foreign policy, have you seen world opinion of the US lately? Our strong arm tactics have not only the mideast parts of asia and france angry, but also the majority of europe. In addition, the bush adminstration has invaded, made threats against, and alienated anyone who has worked doutside of their thinking and policy.

Sir it seems to me you have an opinion, and that is admirable and something that i know will not change; but please respect mine and many others and understand we aren't pulling it out of our asses. We have reason and fact behind us.

Actually that is false...the rich get richer, but the poor do not get poorer, just the standard of living rises. If you look, the poverty line continually increases, but that can also be taken out of context as it has to rise with inflation.

[justinevans]

yeah, actually it was. Before dubbya came along, the rest of the world admired us and pretty much considered us a very rational country. Now everyone sees us as being a bunch of gung-ho cowboys that spread "democracy" through force. Before George W came along, us guys could go up to Canada and the chicks loved american boys. Now you go up there and everyone thinks you're a retard....seriously.

hahahah you never left the country.

Canada hates us because it is the popular thing to do.

I know many Canadians that do not have a problem with the USA. Fuck it dude, lets not import their shit anymore. Dent their economy. Watch them come begging on their knees.

[tom_wim]

as a member of the 'rest of the world' I can say that Bush has damaged the standing of the US with the rest of the world. Rather than the US being a restrained superpower that was always proportioanl with its responses it appears now to be very gung-ho and attacks those that doesnt agree with Bush and wont put upto much of a fight. If Bush had been so worried about WMD's and such he would have invaded Iran rather tha Iraq. The whole thing with democrats being crap at foriegn policy, look at the last 50 years of US Presidents and with the exception of Johnson they've done a much better job than there republican counterparts.

[Justin_stacy]

It shows a true ignorance of history to say that prior to Bush the world loved the US. The fact is everyone despised Clinton (who they perceived as to conservative) with same feverish zeal they do with Bush. But I guess to fit ones agenda we must forget the facts of the previous administration.

Another question for those from the "rest of the world" what have you done to gain favor with us? I'd say the corrupted actions and ignorant rhetoric of Europe over the past 6 years have done little to improve any relations, does this not matter? Is it only the actions of the US that effect relations?

And no personal offense to Tom above, but there are reasons why Carter is considered the worst modern presidents. Do you really think none of that has to do with foreign policy/actions?

[ClapClapSnap]

It shows a true ignorance of history to say that prior to Bush the world loved the US. The fact is everyone despised Clinton (who they perceived as to conservative) with same feverish zeal they do with Bush. But I guess to fit ones agenda we must forget the facts of the previous administration.

Another question for those from the "rest of the world" what have you done to gain favor with us? I'd say the corrupted actions and ignorant rhetoric of Europe over the past 6 years have done little to improve any relations, does this not matter? Is it only the actions of the US that effect relations?

And no personal offense to Tom above, but there are reasons why Carter is considered the worst modern presidents. Do you really think none of that has to do with foreign policy/actions?

touche.

[Justin_stacy]

touche.
Fair.........but it does get old, No?

I just get sick of ignorant liberals making the assertion that it’s totally our fault that there's tension. If France and Germany weren't such corrupt nations the main cause of friction between wouldn't exsist.

[justinevans]

as a member of the 'rest of the world' I can say that Bush has damaged the standing of the US with the rest of the world. Rather than the US being a restrained superpower that was always proportioanl with its responses it appears now to be very gung-ho and attacks those that doesnt agree with Bush and wont put upto much of a fight. If Bush had been so worried about WMD's and such he would have invaded Iran rather tha Iraq. The whole thing with democrats being crap at foriegn policy, look at the last 50 years of US Presidents and with the exception of Johnson they've done a much better job than there republican counterparts.
Really? Lets not forget Kennedy put us in Vietnam.

[Cal Smith]

yea i mean, even if the middle east, france, and eastern european nations didn't like us before bush's administration, now even more countries don't like us. it's kind of unreasonable for you to expect middle eastern countries that we were bombing before to like the united states, but american foreign policy has alienated essentially anyone in the UN minus tony blair who doesn't represent britain very well.

Please explain.........? I was unaware that we are aliented from anyone. Are we alienated from France, Germany, Russia, Australia, Spain, Japan............? Who are we alienated from?

[justinevans]

Fair.........but it does get old, No?

I just get sick of ignorant liberals making the assertion that it’s totally our fault that there's tension. If France and Germany weren't such corrupt nations the main cause of friction between wouldn't exsist.

Yeah, as if France isn't Anti-Semetic or anything.

If it wasn't for the USA, France would be Germany.

[FScott]

sounds like your fucking "delemia"

[richter915]

I am a socialist.

[getupkid53]

If everything really broke down 40/40/20..... voting would lean more towards those numbers. It obviously doesn't. Outside of the nearly 20% Ross Perot got a few elections back... our nation has almost split polls down the middle. If only 20% of the country were liberal, Bill Clinton would have never been in office (unless of course most independents lean left, which would make my previous statement true).

Homer simpson once said... "you can use statistics to prove anything... 55% of people know that". You can't use a poll (gallup or other) of maybe 50-100,000 people tops to show the political divide. How do you know that alot of those 'independent's' are not just people who don't vote or care. I'd really love to see that poll, and then see some other polls to back it up.

[justinevans]

If everything really broke down 40/40/20..... voting would lean more towards those numbers. It obviously doesn't. Outside of the nearly 20% Ross Perot got a few elections back... our nation has almost split polls down the middle. If only 20% of the country were liberal, Bill Clinton would have never been in office (unless of course most independents lean left, which would make my previous statement true).

Homer simpson once said... "you can use statistics to prove anything... 55% of people know that". You can't use a poll (gallup or other) of maybe 50-100,000 people tops to show the political divide. How do you know that alot of those 'independent's' are not just people who don't vote or care. I'd really love to see that poll, and then see some other polls to back it up.

not if 100% of the independents voted his way.

I know my town is only Republican and Independent...it is in NJ.

[tom_wim]

Really? Lets not forget Kennedy put us in Vietnam.

who was actually responsible for putting the US in Vietnam is difficult one to call, current historical thinking goes with Johnson rather than Kennedy.

It shows a true ignorance of history to say that prior to Bush the world loved the US. The fact is everyone despised Clinton (who they perceived as to conservative) with same feverish zeal they do with Bush. But I guess to fit ones agenda we must forget the facts of the previous administration.

Another question for those from the "rest of the world" what have you done to gain favor with us? I'd say the corrupted actions and ignorant rhetoric of Europe over the past 6 years have done little to improve any relations, does this not matter? Is it only the actions of the US that effect relations?

And no personal offense to Tom above, but there are reasons why Carter is considered the worst modern presidents. Do you really think none of that has to do with foreign policy/actions?

Im not saying the world loved the US, you've always had your fair share of haters, BUT you had far more supporters and a greater standing in the world before Bush. France has been one of the US's oldest allies (hell without them you wouldn't have won the war of independence) so for them to not support you, you've gotta stop and think why. Now while the EU hasnt taken direct military action it has tried diplomacy, you may think this to be a waste of time, but surely its worth exhausting all diplomatic routes before getting people killed, and us much we Europeans would like to think are actions have the same effect as that of Americas, it doesnt. I'll give you Carter he was a crap president.

[gillianhsieh]

Really? Lets not forget Kennedy put us in Vietnam.

truman sent american soldiers to vietnam, too, probably not just for decoration or anything.

[gillianhsieh]

Please explain.........? I was unaware that we are aliented from anyone. Are we alienated from France, Germany, Russia, Australia, Spain, Japan............? Who are we alienated from?

yes france, yes germany, yes russia, yes australia, yes spain! maybe not japan but they are too busy with their economic scandals right now to pay attention to the US. i mean... from the mouth of that european kid, it is popular european belief that americans are retarded.

The 2003 invasion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq) and war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War) in Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq) prompted much popular opposition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_opposition_to_the_2003_Iraq _War). Between 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002) and 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005), protests against the Iraq war were held in many cities worldwide, often coordinated to occur simultaneously around the world. After the biggest series of demonstrations, on February 15, 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15%2C_2003_anti-war_protest), New York Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times) writer Patrick Tyler claimed that they showed that there were two superpowers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Superpower) on the planet, the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) and worldwide public opinion.
These anti-war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-war) demonstrations were mainly organised by anti-war groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-war_organizations), many of whom had been formed in opposition to the invasion of Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_invasion_of_Af ghanistan), though in some Arab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab) countries demonstrations were organized by the State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State). Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe) saw the biggest mobilization of protesters, including a rally of 3 million people in Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome), Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) which is listed in the Guinness Book of Records (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_Book_of_Records) as the largest ever anti-war rally.

Anti-war demonstrations, focusing particularly but not exclusively on the expected war with Iraq, took place in villages, towns, and cities around the world, including Tokyo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo), Moscow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow), Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris), London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London), Dublin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin), Montréal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal%2C_Quebec), Ottawa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa), Toronto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto%2C_Ontario), Cologne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne), Bonn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonn), Gothenburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg), Florence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence), Oslo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo), Rotterdam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotterdam), Istanbul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul) and Cairo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo),

and you better believe they all think bush is a dumbass.

[justinevans]

yes france, yes germany, yes russia, yes australia, yes spain! maybe not japan but they are too busy with their economic scandals right now to pay attention to the US. i mean... from the mouth of that european kid, it is popular european belief that americans are retarded.

The 2003 invasion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq) and war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War) in Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq) prompted much popular opposition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_opposition_to_the_2003_Iraq _War). Between 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002) and 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005), protests against the Iraq war were held in many cities worldwide, often coordinated to occur simultaneously around the world. After the biggest series of demonstrations, on February 15, 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15%2C_2003_anti-war_protest), New York Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times) writer Patrick Tyler claimed that they showed that there were two superpowers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Superpower) on the planet, the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) and worldwide public opinion.
These anti-war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-war) demonstrations were mainly organised by anti-war groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-war_organizations), many of whom had been formed in opposition to the invasion of Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_invasion_of_Af ghanistan), though in some Arab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab) countries demonstrations were organized by the State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State). Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe) saw the biggest mobilization of protesters, including a rally of 3 million people in Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome), Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) which is listed in the Guinness Book of Records (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_Book_of_Records) as the largest ever anti-war rally.

Anti-war demonstrations, focusing particularly but not exclusively on the expected war with Iraq, took place in villages, towns, and cities around the world, including Tokyo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo), Moscow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow), Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris), London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London), Dublin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin), Montréal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal%2C_Quebec), Ottawa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa), Toronto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto%2C_Ontario), Cologne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne), Bonn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonn), Gothenburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg), Florence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence), Oslo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo), Rotterdam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotterdam), Istanbul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul) and Cairo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo),

and you better believe they all think bush is a dumbass.

That is the people....not the governments you fucking moron.

[justinevans]

Look up about how the French, German, and Russian governments were bribed by the Iraqi government to vote against us.

If we cannot goto war, we should never again have to donate $$ to Africa or anything. If you don't want to be a fucking super power world, don't make us one.

How many countries count us as a big part of their economy.

[Manbotisdead]

yes, yes......the middle east, france and other eastern european countries loved us before Bush.........................

France?

France got mad because of the way we handled ourselves due to the War on Terror. Eastern Europe (If you consider Russia that, has had improved relations since the end of the cold war. I'll give you the mideast, but be real. I know world opinion of us was never perfect, but it was better in the past.

[Manbotisdead]

Look up about how the French, German, and Russian governments were bribed by the Iraqi government to vote against us.

If we cannot goto war, we should never again have to donate $$ to Africa or anything. If you don't want to be a fucking super power world, don't make us one.

How many countries count us as a big part of their economy.

You are an idiot. I did a debate on foreign aid a few years back. Do you know that 4th world countries such as Bangladesh aren't on our top 10 of aid, but China and Israel both are? This is a little older data, but the aid we give is uneven and the countries who need it the most get bigger help from others besides us.

[Cal Smith]

yes france, yes germany, yes russia, yes australia, yes spain! maybe not japan but they are too busy with their economic scandals right now to pay attention to the US. i mean... from the mouth of that european kid, it is popular european belief that americans are retarded.

The 2003 invasion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq) and war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War) in Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq) prompted much popular opposition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_opposition_to_the_2003_Iraq _War). Between 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002) and 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005), protests against the Iraq war were held in many cities worldwide, often coordinated to occur simultaneously around the world. After the biggest series of demonstrations, on February 15, 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15%2C_2003_anti-war_protest), New York Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times) writer Patrick Tyler claimed that they showed that there were two superpowers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Superpower) on the planet, the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) and worldwide public opinion.
These anti-war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-war) demonstrations were mainly organised by anti-war groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-war_organizations), many of whom had been formed in opposition to the invasion of Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_invasion_of_Af ghanistan), though in some Arab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab) countries demonstrations were organized by the State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State). Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe) saw the biggest mobilization of protesters, including a rally of 3 million people in Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome), Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) which is listed in the Guinness Book of Records (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_Book_of_Records) as the largest ever anti-war rally.

Anti-war demonstrations, focusing particularly but not exclusively on the expected war with Iraq, took place in villages, towns, and cities around the world, including Tokyo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo), Moscow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow), Paris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris), London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London), Dublin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin), Montréal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal%2C_Quebec), Ottawa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa), Toronto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto%2C_Ontario), Cologne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne), Bonn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonn), Gothenburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg), Florence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence), Oslo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo), Rotterdam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotterdam), Istanbul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul) and Cairo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo),

and you better believe they all think bush is a dumbass.

Again.......who are we alienated from? Simply being against the war in Iraq is not complete alienation. We still work with France in the war on terror as we had before Iraq.

[Cal Smith]

France?

France got mad because of the way we handled ourselves due to the War on Terror. Eastern Europe (If you consider Russia that, has had improved relations since the end of the cold war. I'll give you the mideast, but be real. I know world opinion of us was never perfect, but it was better in the past.

From everything I know France has been one of our closest allies on the war on terror.

[FScott]

Russia's been fighting terrorism for awhile and when 911 came they were dancing in the streets, because now the Americans know terror.

[Cal Smith]

Russia's been fighting terrorism for awhile and when 911 came they were dancing in the streets, because now the Americans know terror.

I dont remember this but assuming you're correct notice how that's prior to any of Bush's major policies taking place.

[FScott]

I dont remember this but assuming you're correct notice how that's prior to any of Bush's major policies taking place.

duh silly

[Justin_stacy]

Im not saying the world loved the US, you've always had your fair share of haters, BUT you had far more supporters and a greater standing in the world before Bush. .

I'd disagree with that, but its a personal opinion. I think the envy and jealousy (the root of the hatred) has been rampant for years, but is more openly voiced now that a “non-liberal” is in office. It’s not really a secret that Europe absolutely despised Clinton during his administration, and only fell in “love” with him after he left office and took a turn for the left.

Personally I think the only difference now is that it’s more out in the open. But either way you must also remember that the US was once a big "fan" of Europe too, and their actions over the past few years have caused alot of us to think very little of you guys. So it is not a one way street, your standing with us is not what it once was, and there is a far greater need for good relations on your part with us then there is on our side (and nations like Germany are starting to remember that)….

France has been one of the US's oldest allies (hell without them you wouldn't have won the war of independence) so for them to not support you, you've gotta stop and think why. .

Why? Why you ask? Because they were bought off by an oil wealthy mass murderer. That's something to be proud of isn't it?
And to your example yes historically France has been an ally to the US when it was of profit to them. But remember that they only supported us in the Revolutionary War because it allowed them to stick it to their rival Brittan when she was at her weakest. But is that really of importance today? Is there not some more recent historical event that is a little more relevant?

To be honest though even that event (WWII) matters little in the equation, personal I think no one should go to war simply because they feel they owe it to another. But what France did over stepped the boundaries of a causal friendship. Going behind our back for votes, lying (and check the definition of that word before you try to turn it around on me), taking bribes and giving support to a true tyrant. It is not us who broke the "friendship," it was France.

Note too that there had been tension between the two of us for the past fifty years.....so "friend" or "ally" is being used in the loosest sense.....

Now while the EU hasnt taken direct military action it has tried diplomacy, you may think this to be a waste of time, but surely its worth exhausting all diplomatic routes before getting people killed, and us much we Europeans would like to think are actions have the same effect as that of Americas, it doesnt. I'll give you Carter he was a crap president.

To that a war supporter is going to say that after 20 resolutions and countless other personal attempts the diplomatic route had run there course. How long is one to just talk before it becomes clearly action is the only choice.

People got killed too because action was never taken to save them........how many lives could have been saved if Europe hadn't taken bribes from saddum and helped force him too allow UN inspectors in?

[justinevans]

You are an idiot. I did a debate on foreign aid a few years back. Do you know that 4th world countries such as Bangladesh aren't on our top 10 of aid, but China and Israel both are? This is a little older data, but the aid we give is uneven and the countries who need it the most get bigger help from others besides us.

So we aid countries we have interests in? What is wrong with that?

You also have to think about this...If we send corn and stuff to countries for free...the people growing corn there lose all of their crops and they also become poor.

[Justin_stacy]

Homer simpson once said... "you can use statistics to prove anything... 55% of people know that". You can't use a poll (gallup or other) of maybe 50-100,000 people tops to show the political divide. How do you know that alot of those 'independent's' are not just people who don't vote or care. I'd really love to see that poll, and then see some other polls to back it up.

Polling is the accepted way of find what the public thinks. And reputable pollsters (Zogby, Gallup) have track records that show their consistence, Zogby even got the last two presidential elections exactly right.

Now of course I can't force you to personal accept the findings of pollsters.....but it is the only practical way to find out what a nation of 300 million people think. It is not realistic to ask everyone nor is it necessary.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/998858/posts
Plus, about 4 in 10 Americans today identify themselves as conservatives and about the same number identify as moderates, while less than 20% identify as liberals.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=285
Political philosophy

When asked whether they are conservative, moderate or liberal, a 40% plurality self-identify as moderates, four points ahead of the 36% who self identify as conservatives. Only 19% self identify as liberals. For much of the last thirty years, these numbers have barely changed. Since 1978, the conservatives have never been lower than 34% and never higher than 38%. Moderates have varied only between 39% and 42% and liberals have varied only between 17% and 20%. It is hard to think of another set of attitudinal questions that have been so extraordinarily stable.