Zeitgeist

[Tom Gooding]

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/


Has anyone seen this movie? It's fucking excellent.

[saysmydoctor]

No, no one has ever seen this movie that gets about four threads a month about a fucking shitty 'documentary.' No one.

Idiot.

[Regards]

Warning: For the weak minded

[Machu505]

I remember when I used to think this was informative and mind-blowing.

Then I stopped being stupid.

[saysmydoctor]

My signature contains an epic quote from Mr. Tate. Pretty much sums up my sentiments on this 'documentary.'

[jessicalynn-xx]

At the risk of sounding like an idiot... What was wrong with this movie? I thought it was pretty good...

[lfdfforever]

At the risk of sounding like an idiot... What was wrong with this movie? I thought it was pretty good...peeps on ap.net can't see through the illusion obviously :-d

[perceptrons]

Documentary is like swiss cheese.

[Losing Streak]

Teh internez says its true so it is!

[lfdfforever]

Teh internez says its true so it is!dick heads on ap.net say it isn't true so it must not be!

[Adeniz19]

peeps on ap.net can't see through the illusion obviously :-ddo you believe in every conspiracy that you read? haha

[theESCO]

Part about the federal reserve was interesting, the rest was kinda meh.

[zion the lion]

Before I waste my time on this thing, what is it?

[lfdfforever]

do you believe in every conspiracy that you read? hahasurprisingly, no lol

[starshine1763]

Before I waste my time on this thing, what is it?

Part I, entitled "The Greatest Story Ever Told" questions religions as original god-given stories, arguing the Christian religion specifically is mainly derived from other religions, astronomical facts, astrological (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology) myths and traditions; in turn derived from or sharing elements with other ones. In furtherance of the Jesus myth hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_hypothesis), this part argues that the historical Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus) is a literary and astrological hybrid, nurtured politically in the interest of control.

Part II, entitled "All the World's a Stage," uses integral footage of several 9/11 conspiracy theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories) films like Loose Change (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_%28film%29) to portray the September 11 attacks as either orchestrated or allowed to happen by elements within the United States government in order to generate mass fear, initiate and justify the War on Terror (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terror), provide a pretext for the curtailment of civil liberties, and produce economic gain. These claims include that the U.S. government had advance knowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_advance-knowledge_debate) about the attacks, the response of the military (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_response_during_the_S eptember_11_attacks) deliberately let the planes reach their targets, and the World Trade Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center) buildings 1, 2, and 7 underwent a controlled demolition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_demolition_hypothesis_fo r_the_collapse_of_the_World_Trade_C enter). The film claims that six of the named hijackers are still alive, that Hani Hanjour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hani_Hanjour) could not have flown Flight 77 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_77) into the Pentagon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon), that no substantial plane wreckage was found at two of the three crash sites, that the Bush administration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_George_W._Bush) covered up the truth in the 9/11 Commission Report (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Commission_Report), and that the mainstream media have failed to ask important questions about the official account.

Part III, entitled Don't Mind the Men Behind the Curtain, argues that three wars of the United States during the twentieth century were waged purely for economic gain by what the film refers to as "international bankers". The film alleges that certain events were engineered or were allowed to happen as excuses to enter into war include the sinking of the RMS Lusitania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania#War) (a factor in the U.S. decision to enter World War I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I) two years later), the Attack on Pearl Harbor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor) (which was the opening attack of the Japanese on the U.S. in World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II)), and the Gulf of Tonkin Incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident) (which led to the escalation of the Vietnam War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War)).

[saysmydoctor]

OP is as naive as this lfdfforever character.

[Tom Gooding]

OP is as naive as this lfdfforever character.


...how?

And prove to me that the claims in the movie are false.

[saysmydoctor]

The religious claims have been made before.

The 9/11 claims can be so easily refuted as long as one isn't an idiot.

The third claim is just retarded.

[macabre]

...how?

And prove to me that the claims in the movie are false.

The burden of proof rests on those making the affirmative claim.

If you're interested in deciding whether the original explanations or the conspiracies are more plausible, here are some rebuttals to the claims put forth by Zeitgeist:
http://www.conspiracyscience.com/articles/zeitgeist/

[zion the lion]

The religious claims have been made before.

The 9/11 claims can be so easily refuted as long as one isn't an idiot.

The third claim is just retarded.

Great argument right there.

[saysmydoctor]

I've made my 9/11 countless times in the other dumbass 9/11 thread. It's not a conspiracy.

As for them saying that the Lusitania was sunk on purpose, Pearl Harbor was intentional, and the Gulf of Tonkin was intentional is ridiculous. Each world war was followed by a recession so the initial gains were short lived, though it can be argued that if you follow the business cycle theory, recessions after expansions generally never fall before the pre-recession troughs (I explained this badly, whatever).

[lfdfforever]

OP is as naive as this lfdfforever character.the name is aaron, asshole.

[saysmydoctor]

the name is aaron, asshole.
Username is lfdfforever.

[Duexy]

stupid

[lfdfforever]

Username is lfdfforever. indeed

[MyNameIsRoss]

The movie isn't that mind blowing or anything. But of course 9/11 was a false flag operation to get Americans to accept the new agenda, and further pass legislation to take our civil liberties away.

[lfdfforever]

The movie isn't that mind blowing or anything. But of course 9/11 was a false flag operation to get Americans to accept the new agenda, and further pass legislation to take our civil liberties away. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[saysmydoctor]

I love how people say that without any evidence. The AIA report is simply theory, they have not been investigating evidence on the scene.

[ShShShark]

oh how i regret ever wasting two hours of my life on this trash

[MyNameIsRoss]

I love how people say that without any evidence. The AIA report is simply theory, they have not been investigating evidence on the scene.

Always question the consensus reality.

[saysmydoctor]

Always question the consensus reality.
Idiot.

[MyNameIsRoss]

Idiot.


You went straight to insult, niice.

[lfdfforever]

American Idiot.

[zion the lion]

This thread is bitchy

[lfdfforever]

You went straight to insult, niice. he's a little bitch, who is wayyyy to sure of himself.

[MyNameIsRoss]

he's a little bitch, who is wayyyy to sure of himself.

yeahh, fuck that guy.

[The Summer Ends]

just google one of the many "debunking zeitgeist" websites

[saysmydoctor]

I'm sorry, anybody who tells me to question whether the 9/11 attacks are an inside job are up there with characters like Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, the Westboro Baptist Church, and NRLC characters. Loony fucking people who aren't to be taken seriously.

I guess I'm into myself if I favor fact over fiction. And none of you are presenting fact, you are presenting guys who are giving off theories based off video and stupid 'documentaries' that easily fact-checked.

[MyNameIsRoss]

I'm sorry, anybody who tells me to question whether the 9/11 attacks are an inside job are up there with characters like Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, the Westboro Baptist Church, and NRLC characters. Loony fucking people who aren't to be taken seriously.

I guess I'm into myself if I favor fact over fiction. And none of you are presenting fact, you are presenting guys who are giving off theories based off video and stupid 'documentaries' that easily fact-checked.



What a stupid fucking generalization you've got there.

[saysmydoctor]

What a stupid fucking generalization you've got there.
No denying that but so is believing the 9/11 attacks are an inside job and so is believing this fucking 'documentary' is anything more than playing on teenager's lack of knowledge of history and Dan Brown mania.

[MyNameIsRoss]

No denying that but so is believing the 9/11 attacks are an inside job and so is believing this fucking 'documentary' is anything more than playing on teenager's lack of knowledge of history and Dan Brown mania.


I don't care about the Zeitgeist. A lot of credible people are in the '911 Truth movement'. To say that a plane vaporized due to jet fuel, and that building 7 collapsed because of fires on 3 floors is scientifically impossible.

[open mind]

I don't care about the Zeitgeist. A lot of credible people are in the '911 Truth movement'. To say that a plane vaporized due to jet fuel, and that building 7 collapsed because of fires on 3 floors is scientifically impossible.

the magic bullet is impossible to....unless you take into account the actual circumstances.

[Adeniz19]

I don't care about the Zeitgeist. A lot of credible people are in the '911 Truth movement'. To say that a plane vaporized due to jet fuel, and that building 7 collapsed because of fires on 3 floors is scientifically impossible.Yea, because that is such an over simplification of what actually happened.

[zion the lion]

the magic bullet is impossible to....unless you take into account the actual circumstances.

The blender?

[MyNameIsRoss]

Yea, because that is such an over simplification of what actually happened.

Because it's really practical to detail the events of 9/11, in their entirety, in a post on ap.net

[saysmydoctor]

I don't care about the Zeitgeist. A lot of credible people are in the '911 Truth movement'. To say that a plane vaporized due to jet fuel, and that building 7 collapsed because of fires on 3 floors is scientifically impossible.
To say that some people went inside three towers, one that very few people even knew about and was not a landmark building in the New York skyline, in the middle of the day setting up bombs in elevator shafts while 5000+ people worked around them is fucking logistically impossible. Military intelligence, CIA, NSA, State Department Intelligence, DIA, Energy Department Intelligence, FBI, do you realize the logistical manpower that would be required to concoct a plan to fool the country? Then the people that were needed to do this, set up bombs to implode the buildings, of which two are over 100 stories and one of which would make no sense to bring down? Then they would have to find planes to be flown into buildings, hire 'mercenaries' who just all happen to be connected to Al Qaeda?

Then they would give it all away by collapsing 7 World Trade Center?

You are a fucking idiot. I mean seriously? http://911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646 You believe this when it isn't even fucking sourced or anything.

These kind of things prop up with everything that has ever occurred concerning the US. It doesn't make sense. Oklahoma City was also a government move? What did that do? Give them someone to execute.

Don't we have enough real problems to face without having invent ones?

[thatwasamoment]

As I recall, the first movie blows, but the follow up was much better. Less 9/11 and religion mumbo jumbo and more discussion to real problems.

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.debunking911.com/WTC7.htm

http://www.debunking911.com/wtc7swd.jpg


A fucking massive hole in the fucking building before it collapsed.

Myth fucking busted.

[Adeniz19]

Because it's really practical to detail the events of 9/11, in their entirety, in a post on ap.netWell don't make such blanket statements about something being scientifically impossible if you are going to use such broad and generic explanations.

[open mind]

The blender?

???
i was referring to the magic bullet theory that jim garrison presented as proof positive that there had to be more then one shooter involved in the kennedy assassination.

[zion the lion]

???
i was referring to the magic bullet theory that jim garrison presented as proof positive that there had to be more then one shooter involved in the kennedy assassination.

I was just watching an infomercial for a food processor that's easy to clean called the magic bullet. I completely thought you were talking about that.

[open mind]

I was just watching an infomercial for a food processor that's easy to clean called the magic bullet. I completely thought you were talking about that.

that's crap marketing research in action....unless people out there like to associate thier dinner with the killing of a former leader of the western world.

[lfdfforever]

http://www.debunking911.com/WTC7.htm

http://www.debunking911.com/wtc7swd.jpg


A fucking massive hole in the fucking building before it collapsed.

Myth fucking busted.the official report said it collapsed from a fire right?

[zion the lion]

that's crap marketing research in action....unless people out there like to associate thier dinner with the killing of a former leader of the western world.

Or the marketing researchers knew that a lot of people dont even know the assassin's name, so they were banking on the ignorance of the general population.

[saysmydoctor]

the official report said it collapsed from a fire right?
Did you read the page or are you just asking stupid fucking rhetorical questions?

[lfdfforever]

Did you read the page or are you just asking stupid fucking rhetorical questions? well you're making it seem like it fell from having a huge hole in it.

[saysmydoctor]

well you're making it seem like it fell from having a huge hole in it.
Did you read the page?

[MyNameIsRoss]

To say that some people went inside three towers, one that very few people even knew about and was not a landmark building in the New York skyline, in the middle of the day setting up bombs in elevator shafts while 5000+ people worked around them is fucking logistically impossible. Military intelligence, CIA, NSA, State Department Intelligence, DIA, Energy Department Intelligence, FBI, do you realize the logistical manpower that would be required to concoct a plan to fool the country? Then the people that were needed to do this, set up bombs to implode the buildings, of which two are over 100 stories and one of which would make no sense to bring down? Then they would have to find planes to be flown into buildings, hire 'mercenaries' who just all happen to be connected to Al Qaeda?

Then they would give it all away by collapsing 7 World Trade Center?

You are a fucking idiot. I mean seriously? http://911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646 You believe this when it isn't even fucking sourced or anything.

These kind of things prop up with everything that has ever occurred concerning the US. It doesn't make sense. Oklahoma City was also a government move? What did that do? Give them someone to execute.

Don't we have enough real problems to face without having invent ones?

I don't see why that is necessary.

[lfdfforever]

Did you read the page?i'm not talking about the page. i'm talking about your post, "A fucking massive hole in the fucking building before it collapsed."
which led me to think you were saying it fell because of the fucking massive hole and not a fire, that's why i asked.

[lfdfforever]

I don't see why that is necessary.it's not, he's just an asshole.

[open mind]

Or the marketing researchers knew that a lot of people dont even know the assassin's name, so they were banking on the ignorance of the general population.

it's just bad buisness to needlessly risk alienating any part of your potential consumer base.

[open mind]

i'm not talking about the page. i'm talking about your post, "A fucking massive hole in the fucking building before it collapsed."
which led me to think you were saying it fell because of the fucking massive hole and not a fire, that's why i asked.

it's not entirely unreasonable to believe that the result of the collision that caused that hole might have been a massive fire all through those floors is it?

[lfdfforever]

it's not entirely unreasonable to believe that the result of the collision that caused that hole might have been a massive fire all through those floors is it? that's a possibility

[saysmydoctor]

i'm not talking about the page. i'm talking about your post, "A fucking massive hole in the fucking building before it collapsed."
which led me to think you were saying it fell because of the fucking massive hole and not a fire, that's why i asked.
Ok, genius. Let's just work on math for a moment.

There is a huge fucking whole, 20 stories tall, caused by a collapsing fucking tower over 100 stories tall.
http://www.debunking911.com/fig-1-7.jpg


Here is the general debris area from the two towers falling to the ground due to fucking airplanes.

Also, read this: http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov07.pdf

So yes, fires didn't help the building and ultimately caused its collapsed because they went unfought by the firemen. But I'm going to assume that the massive gash in the fucking tower.

IwdD6ERutEI&feature=player_embedded

Notice the building is smoking in the video.

[saysmydoctor]

3HLDgjYuRHk&feature=player_embedded

[saysmydoctor]

it's not, he's just an asshole.
I may be an asshole, but I sleep just fine at night knowing I'm not a fucking idiot.

9/11 is a lot of things. A complete and utter failure by US intelligence, an incompetent government with a forewarned president who refused to listen.

I like how these people question the intelligence of the President and the Government but go on to say they were smart enough to pull off this. It's just the kind of double standard, backwards fucking logic presented by the conspiracy theorist crowd? Cast doubt on everything, except the one thing that would totally destroy their case for casting doubt on everything.

[Duexy]

I may be an asshole, but I sleep just fine at night knowing I'm not a fucking idiot.



:clap:
:clap:
:clap:
:clap:


probably the best thing i've ever read on AP.

[AussieBoy]

even if it was rubbish, its stil entertaining hearing ppls myths and how they come to those conclusions

this dvd mysteriously fell into my lap from a friend and i found the religion part to be really cool, real or not, 911 was ok, got bored about the finance bit n stopped watching

[open mind]

that's a possibility

and it's not entirely unreasonable to believe that there might have been some structural wear and tear on that building is it? or that maybe those struts and beams weren't as strong as the builders originally claimed? or that there could have been a whole host of office and safety products on those floors that might have burned and then created a volatile mix of high temperature burning chemicals is it?

i'm no scientist, but i have worked in construction and hazardous waste disposal so i know builders lie and mixtures of chemicals found in everyday life can burn the shit out of damn near anything.

[zion the lion]

How many times does one have to use the word 'fucking' to get their point across?

[Duexy]

fucking deal with it imo

[saysmydoctor]

How many times does one have to use the word 'fucking' to get their point across?
You know, this issue is different than major mainstream issues. This one when some radical group of kids, essentially, (and I am generalizing, but it is generally the young crowd who clings to this) act like pseudo intellectuals because they watched Zeitgeist and just recently learned about the Federal Reserve and what not. They think they know everything and really they don't, because the conspiracy theorists play to these very same people. They deliberately ignore evidence that counters their point--very deliberately--or they twist quotes (concerning this incident) of deceased firemen to make it seem like they knew what was going on all along simply because their voices lacked panic. But if they knew what was going on, why would they walk into a collapsing building? C'mon.

So, yes, I get angry over this issue over any other, because it is simply a stupid position to hold. It really is.

[open mind]

I may be an asshole, but I sleep just fine at night knowing I'm not a fucking idiot.

it's not just that you're an asshole, it's that you needlessly shit on those with differing views when it's not neccesary,and that's just counter-productive to changing peoples opinions.
you're just a dick feeling the need to further polarize the general populace, and thus inhibit the rate of real progress....or you're just a douchebag who feels the need to constantly demonstrate just how smart you think you really are.

p.s. i usually agree with the substance of what you say, just not how you say it.

[saysmydoctor]

it's not just that you're an asshole, it's that you needlessly shit on those with differing views when it's not neccesary,and that's just counter-productive to changing peoples opinions.
you're just a dick feeling the need to further polarize the general populace, and thus inhibit the rate of real progress....or you're just a douchebag who feels the need to constantly demonstrate just how smart you think you really are.

p.s. i usually agree with the substance of what you say, just not how you say it.
:shrug:

I've worked on it over time and we have some decent debate in other topics. But these topics (WTC, Zeitgeist) are so tired, so pointless, so lacking of any actual intellectual thought, that I just don't feel like being nice. You wan to know that is really counter-productive? Debating what happened at the WTC site. It is obvious what happened but by debating you are really insulting what happened to those there, the responders, the victims on the planes, etc. Over a year now I've been posting this forum and over year I've seen topics of WTC and Zeitgeist and it's like "We get it." But honestly, enough. They are what's really counter productive. Maybe I should be nicer to the people who make these topics. But honestly, they are so embedded with their nonconformity or questioning reality, that it's almost pointless because what they are believing simply defies logic and science.

I apologize for attacking these guys so roughly, but at the same time: think outside the box and don't believe every single thing you read, because these people are counting on your gullibility to hook into their little niche market. And what they are saying isn't even true, it just sounds true.

[open mind]

:shrug:

I've worked on it over time and we have some decent debate in other topics. But these topics (WTC, Zeitgeist) are so tired, so pointless, so lacking of any actual intellectual thought, that I just don't feel like being nice. You wan to know that is really counter-productive? Debating what happened at the WTC site. It is obvious what happened but by debating you are really insulting what happened to those there, the responders, the victims on the planes, etc. Over a year now I've been posting this forum and over year I've seen topics of WTC and Zeitgeist and it's like "We get it." But honestly, enough. They are what's really counter productive. Maybe I should be nicer to the people who make these topics. But honestly, they are so embedded with their nonconformity or questioning reality, that it's almost pointless because what they are believing simply defies logic and science.

i dunno man...when i try intelligent discourse i usually get something similiar back.

it's always encouraging to me that people care about the world, they might not know shit about it to start off with, but provided you aren't a total prick about disagreeing with them you can point them in the right direction while allowing them to think that's where they were heading all along.

i realize this is just a stupid message board but it does make good practice for the real world.

[saysmydoctor]

But he didn't come in here like that. When first posted about this, he made it seem like we were all idiots for not taking the AIA's word for it (which someone pointed as an appeal to authority). I mean, I understand your point and you're right, but at the same time, eh.

Also, found this:

gsUYhrXonXQ&feature=player_embedded

[huntor]

the jesus story was plagiarized
every war was fueled by corrupted politics.
the downfall of the economy is bc of greedy central bankers who died years ago, but left their fraudulent system on paper for future greedy cunts.
and 9/11 was a cheney administration step up..

all true.
no matter how naive you are, and no matter how many time you say different it's still gunna be true.
facts are facts, & stories are stories. believe what you want, and if you can't tell an edited revised story from factuality,
then your extremely exploitable. and you need to take a step back and realize what you are..
:sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep: :sheep::sheep:

[saysmydoctor]

:wallbash:

[Duexy]

the jesus story was plagiarized
every war was fueled by corrupted politics.
the downfall of the economy is bc of greedy central bankers who died years ago, but left their fraudulent system on paper for future greedy cunts.
and 9/11 was a cheney administration step up..

all ture.
no matter how naive you are, and no matter how many time you say different it's still gunna be true.
facts are facts, & stories are stories. believe what you want, and if you can't tell an edited revised story from factuality,
then your extremely exploitable. and you need to take a step back and realize what you are..
:sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep: :sheep::sheep:


i like to think "ture" is some kind of slang for garbage or lies, but in the end i realize that you actually believe everything you said was true.

[TEAMRAMROD]

:wallbash:
Seconded.

[macabre]

You know, this issue is different than major mainstream issues. This one when some radical group of kids, essentially, (and I am generalizing, but it is generally the young crowd who clings to this) act like pseudo intellectuals because they watched Zeitgeist and just recently learned about the Federal Reserve and what not. They think they know everything and really they don't, because the conspiracy theorists play to these very same people.

QFT. I have friends who, after watching Zeitgeist, suddenly became economics experts and adherents of the Austrian school of economics. I've gotten into debates with them over the recession and it's like talking to a brick wall. They have no idea what the hell the Austrian school professes nor why believe in their theories, they just repeat lines from the movie. I don't understand how someone can watch a documentary and suddenly assume that they are an expert on an extremely complex topic. As for 9/11, anybody that has studied the American system knows how incredibly prone it is to incompetence. To think that our government was capable of coordinating such an intricate plot against its own people but unable to manage a natural disaster like Hurricane Katrina effectively seems to defy all logic.

[lfdfforever]

there is no truth, only a perspective.

[Duexy]

Alright bro.

[exploration #4]

The blender?

:lol:
LOVE that infomercial!

[x togepi x]

there is no truth, only a perspective.

yes but there are useful perspectives and useless perspectives. The problem with the conspiracy crowd is they're more interested in proving their unfalsifiable conspiracy theories then tackling the issues they attempt to bring to like. the conspiracy theory is, just that. ultimately useless on a strategic level, just mainly interesting for its own reasoning.

they provide no answers for their problems. they posit an ultimate authority and leave us with no hope.

[bung]

Zeitgeist is such a badass word. Zeeeeitgeist! It's just sounds cool.

[bung]

there is no truth, only a perspective.

a square has four sides.

[killerswells]

my sister watched zeitgeist and decided to change her views on things. i watched it and decided that she must have been adopted.

[huntor]

i like to think "ture" is some kind of slang for garbage or lies, but in the end i realize that you actually believe everything you said was true.

thanks for putting it all together for me,
im sure nobody would realized my right middle finger is slightly faster then my left

and i know, its crazy right.
believing in logical and practical facts..
but believing in talking snakes, walking on water, and every word the the fox network has to say is all completely reasonable.

i can distinguish a fabricated scenario from a genuine report any day of the week.
and all it takes is logic and practicality.
the world needs stupid people to believe they saw a statue cry for people like you, and the world needs smart people to prove them wrong for people like me.

and if your own ignorance creates your own bliss, by all means keep believing in what you believe.
i believe in peace, happiness and actuality. i dont need mythical heroes and folk tales to find god and divinity in myself. but some people do.. and its kind of sad..

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

God I love Lawrence

[huntor]

same here

[saysmydoctor]

thanks for putting it all together for me,
im sure nobody would realized my right middle finger is slightly faster then my left

and i know, its crazy right.
believing in logical and practical facts..
but believing in talking snakes, walking on water, and every word the the fox network has to say is all completely reasonable.

i can distinguish a fabricated scenario from a genuine report any day of the week.
and all it takes is logic and practicality.
the world needs stupid people to believe they saw a statue cry for people like you, and the world needs smart people to prove them wrong for people like me.

and if your own ignorance creates your own bliss, by all means keep believing in what you believe.
i believe in peace, happiness and actuality. i dont need mythical heroes and folk tales to find god and divinity in myself. but some people do.. and its kind of sad..
What the fuck are you talking about?

[Mercy Medical]

I may be an asshole, but I sleep just fine at night knowing I'm not a fucking idiot.

9/11 is a lot of things. A complete and utter failure by US intelligence, an incompetent government with a forewarned president who refused to listen.

I like how these people question the intelligence of the President and the Government but go on to say they were smart enough to pull off this. It's just the kind of double standard, backwards fucking logic presented by the conspiracy theorist crowd? Cast doubt on everything, except the one thing that would totally destroy their case for casting doubt on everything.
Oh come on, you can't deny the fact that some of the evidence they present in the movie is compelling and might make you second guess. Yes, there are obvious holes in the movie like the ones you presented in the post, but some of the stuff they provide seems to make sense...enough sense to make people believe it.

It's really unnecessary to flame other posters right off the bat and constantly call them an idiot. I mean, Sean, you actually do surprise me in your level of intelligence at your age in regards to governmental issues, you always have even when you were 16 and posting in the politics forum. But it's your completely abrasive attitude and demeanor towards other members (I won't deny the fact that some do deserve it, but others do not) that is a total turn off and makes me want to completely stop reading your posts in various threads. That aspect of your personality completely diminishes the good aspects of it.

You need to learn to stop being such a dick sometimes and people might respect you and your opinion more and actually see that you are a quality poster and a very intelligent 18 year old.

EDIT: Oops, 19 year old. Last time I saw your age it was 18, my bad.

[saysmydoctor]

But that's the point. Some of the evidence they present in the movie is compelling and does make you second guess. Of course when you filter the evidence that would disprove the theory you are trying to present, it makes you look good. So yes they present a decent case by playing on the gullibility of the watchers by presenting a one-sided case. It does make sense and there is no denying that. It's just unfair way of presenting a case because they call their movement a 'truth movement' and then to lie by omission.

And you're right. I should be nicer. :shrug: But at the same time, people that are believing things that clearly false and refuse to budge even when they are shown to be wrong--it's get tiring to mollycoddle the naive. But yes, you're right.

[pennie]

I stil find it funny when people actually,honestly believe that W. and the US government set up 9/11. Just wow.

[Mercy Medical]

I stil find it funny when people actually,honestly believe that W. and the US government set up 9/11. Just wow.
I don't think they would ever be capable of pulling something off of that magnitude, but some of the points brought up in the 9/11 conspiracy movie are interesting. I mean, I suppose they're as interesting as they are entertaining. The movie definitely kept my attention the entire time and I definitely found some of it to be compelling, but at the end it doesn't really matter what really happened, who really did it. It happened and there's nothing that can do to change that so there's no point in dwelling on it in that fashion and even if it were a conspiracy, it's not like that will ever come out as truth or we will ever know the real truth behind it, so what's the point?

[pennie]

I don't think they would ever be capable of pulling something off of that magnitude, but some of the points brought up in the 9/11 conspiracy movie are interesting. I mean, I suppose they're as interesting as they are entertaining. The movie definitely kept my attention the entire time and I definitely found some of it to be compelling, but at the end it doesn't really matter what really happened, who really did it. It happened and there's nothing that can do to change that so there's no point in dwelling on it in that fashion and even if it were a conspiracy, it's not like that will ever come out as truth or we will ever know the real truth behind it, so what's the point?

Exactly. Watch the movie, obviously it has helped educate people about certain things in America(banking systems etc) But you have to take it all with a pinch of salt and ACTUALLY do your own research,not just watch the movie and take it for 100% truth.

[Mercy Medical]

Exactly. Watch the movie, obviously it has helped educate people about certain things in America(banking systems etc) But you have to take it all with a pinch of salt and ACTUALLY do your own research,not just watch the movie and take it for 100% truth.
Which is honestly the case for any documentary as they typically only give you one side of the argument.

I think that's one of the worst parts of our society. It's fabulous to be able to access this wide array of information whether it be TV, internet, radio, etc...but for some reason so many people think that because it is on one of those mediums, it is therefore 100% truth.

[lfdfforever]

But that's the point. Some of the evidence they present in the movie is compelling and does make you second guess. Of course when you filter the evidence that would disprove the theory you are trying to present, it makes you look good. So yes they present a decent case by playing on the gullibility of the watchers by presenting a one-sided case. It does make sense and there is no denying that. It's just unfair way of presenting a case because they call their movement a 'truth movement' and then to lie by omission.

And you're right. I should be nicer. :shrug: But at the same time, people that are believing things that clearly false and refuse to budge even when they are shown to be wrong--it's get tiring to mollycoddle the naive. But yes, you're right.which dude are you in your profile picture?

[saysmydoctor]

which dude are you in your profile picture?
Hahahahahah the picture that is two years old? Are you really incapable of responding to the evidence presented in this thread so you are going to focus fire on me now? Whatever dude, I'm the guy in the middle.

[lfdfforever]

Hahahahahah the picture that is two years old? Are you really incapable of responding to the evidence presented in this thread so you are going to focus fire on me now? Whatever dude, I'm the guy in the middle.you're hott

[huntor]

What the fuck are you talking about?

i dont expect you to understand.

[saysmydoctor]

you're hott
Thanks?
i dont expect you to understand.
Alright. :rolleyes:

[Regards]

thanks for putting it all together for me,
im sure nobody would realized my right middle finger is slightly faster then my left

and i know, its crazy right.
believing in logical and practical facts..
but believing in talking snakes, walking on water, and every word the the fox network has to say is all completely reasonable.

i can distinguish a fabricated scenario from a genuine report any day of the week.
and all it takes is logic and practicality.
the world needs stupid people to believe they saw a statue cry for people like you, and the world needs smart people to prove them wrong for people like me.

and if your own ignorance creates your own bliss, by all means keep believing in what you believe.
i believe in peace, happiness and actuality. i dont need mythical heroes and folk tales to find god and divinity in myself. but some people do.. and its kind of sad..
So wait, you're hinging yourself on the part of the movie that's the most easily debunked part? There are a ton better arguments against Christianity and God than the one's presented in that movie. If anything you're proving yourself to be one of the people you're criticizing at the bottom of this post.

[lfdfforever]

Thanks?

Alright. :rolleyes:do you believe in aliens from outer space?

[saysmydoctor]

do you believe in aliens from outer space?
Do you have anything intelligent and relevant to bring to the conversation or are you just grasping at straws?

[lfdfforever]

Do you have anything intelligent and relevant to bring to the conversation or are you just grasping at straws?i'll try

[ShShShark]

thanks for putting it all together for me,
im sure nobody would realized my right middle finger is slightly faster then my left

and i know, its crazy right.
believing in logical and practical facts..
but believing in talking snakes, walking on water, and every word the the fox network has to say is all completely reasonable.

i can distinguish a fabricated scenario from a genuine report any day of the week.
and all it takes is logic and practicality.
the world needs stupid people to believe they saw a statue cry for people like you, and the world needs smart people to prove them wrong for people like me.

and if your own ignorance creates your own bliss, by all means keep believing in what you believe.
i believe in peace, happiness and actuality. i dont need mythical heroes and folk tales to find god and divinity in myself. but some people do.. and its kind of sad..

I was able to follow this conversation until the above statement.

What does any of this have to do with the movie, or the argument. Also, just to be picky, you underlined LOGICAL, PRACTICAL, and FACT. That is redundant. If facts were illogical or unpractical, they would not be facts...Perhaps the word you meant was belief? maybe opinion?

And the Christianity/Fox News angle has been worn out for the last 10 years. Its just so...EASY. I personally am bored with this argument. Lets find a new angle, maybe?

Then again, that's pretty much the heart of conspiracy theories. Easy. Cheap. And like someone posted before, as porous as swiss cheese.

[jwicklun]

I don't care about the Zeitgeist. A lot of credible people are in the '911 Truth movement'. To say that a plane vaporized due to jet fuel, and that building 7 collapsed because of fires on 3 floors is scientifically impossible.
read the popular mechanics article on the whole conspiracy. it pretty much proves how the conspiracy theorists are wrong on every claim.

[saysmydoctor]

read the popular mechanics article on the whole conspiracy. it pretty much proves how the conspiracy theorists are wrong on every claim.
The obvious response to this is that the Popular Mechanics staff are in on the whole conspiracy.

:rolleyes:

[MyNameIsRoss]

read the popular mechanics article on the whole conspiracy. it pretty much proves how the conspiracy theorists are wrong on every claim.


Ok, I will check that out.

[jwicklun]

The obvious response to this is that the Popular Mechanics staff are in on the whole conspiracy.

:rolleyes:
have you seen the debate between the loose change guys and the popular mechanics investigators? the whole thing is just childish and the loose change guys just come across as crazy people.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

here is the link to the Popular Mechanics artice:

Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html)

and

Debunking the 9/11 Myths :the Book (http://www.amazon.com/Debunking-11-Myths-Conspiracy-Theories/dp/158816635X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244232560&sr=8-1)

[saysmydoctor]

have you seen the debate between the loose change guys and the popular mechanics investigators? the whole thing is just childish and the loose change guys just come across as crazy people.
I haven't seen that, I figured I gave the Loose Change folks more listening time than they even deserved.

[macabre]

You have to visit the Loose Change forums if you have a chance, there are a good number of people on there who believe the plane was remote controlled and that there weren't people on board. Somehow the government made it seem like people died when they didn't and gave them money to keep quiet. I don't understand why "truthers" willingly jump through so many hoops to make their theory plausible. Why add explosives, remote-controlled planes, and non-existent crash victims to an event when it can be easily explained without those things?

[brentkid]

Unless the person is structural engineer or incredibly experienced in the ways of demolition, these people need to shut the fuck up about WTC 7 being manually brought down.

These theories are for the most part, ludicrous. Go out and do your own research and formulate your own conclusions about what happened that day, but don't claim that what you're preaching is fact because you copy and pasted a bunch of quotes out of context and zoomed in on incredibly pixelated pictures of the buildings that day.

[ShShShark]

You have to visit the Loose Change forums if you have a chance, there are a good number of people on there who believe the plane was remote controlled and that there weren't people on board. Somehow the government made it seem like people died when they didn't and gave them money to keep quiet. I don't understand why "truthers" willingly jump through so many hoops to make their theory plausible.

HAHA wow I have got to check this fucking site out.

[MyNameIsRoss]

The obvious response to this is that the Popular Mechanics staff are in on the whole conspiracy.

:rolleyes:


I'm not Alex Jones or something, man. I just thought the response to 9/11 and the commission report were odd. Everything should be open to discussion, I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

[x togepi x]

I'm not Alex Jones or something, man. I just thought the response to 9/11 and the commission report were odd. Everything should be open to discussion, I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

yeah but the problem is conspiracy theorists make real, honest dissent seem just as crazy, so people just buy the official narrative. i mean, like i've said before, i've even heard of other conspiracy theorists saying alex jones is an fbi agent.

[jwicklun]

I'm not Alex Jones or something, man. I just thought the response to 9/11 and the commission report were odd. Everything should be open to discussion, I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
That is completly understood. I'm just saying that on a scientific and factual stand point, the whole 9-11 conspiracy comes across as mind boggling and far-fetched. the whole plan seems too overly complex for it to even succeed or even leak out. and as much as i hated the Bush presidency, you would think they would come up with a better plan that would not result in death of thousands of their own civilians. people tell me to "open my eyes" to this whole new world order thing, but it just sounds like something from an Oliver Stone movie. Its ok to be skeptical, but don't follow your decisions blindly.

[MyNameIsRoss]

yeah but the problem is conspiracy theorists make real, honest dissent seem just as crazy, so people just buy the official narrative. i mean, like i've said before, i've even heard of other conspiracy theorists saying alex jones is an fbi agent.


Alex Jones is just a moron. He thinks that there will be an apocalypse, and that the apocalypse will be an armed revolution where the people overthrow the New World Order. (after that Jesus comes back of course).

Some things are just fucked up and corrupt, i.e. the food and pharmaceutical industries, the drug war, big oil, the 'war on terror' . I don't think it's because of the illumnati and the zionists.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

have you seen the debate between the loose change guys and the popular mechanics investigators? the whole thing is just childish and the loose change guys just come across as crazy people.

here is part 1 :

stVmEmJ666M


there are a bunch more.

[saysmydoctor]

Holy :lol: @ Heart yellow journalism.

[jwicklun]

Holy :lol: @ Heart yellow journalism.
yeah, talking to experts, doing research and experiments is really "yellow journalism." Again this is why I hate conspiracy theorists.

[Tom Gooding]

Hahahaha. That video is awesome. I watched all of them. The Popular Mechanics guys were total pros and made the loose change guys look like schmucks.

[lfdfforever]

that debate was a joke.

[lfdfforever]

Alex Jones is just a moron. He thinks that there will be an apocalypse, and that the apocalypse will be an armed revolution where the people overthrow the New World Order. (after that Jesus comes back of course).

Some things are just fucked up and corrupt, i.e. the food and pharmaceutical industries, the drug war, big oil, the 'war on terror' . I don't think it's because of the illumnati and the zionists.exactly

[saysmydoctor]

I like how you are backtracking in this thread.

[jwicklun]

kcrF346sS_I

[MyNameIsRoss]

These threads are useless. I think everyone can agree on that. 9 pages of nothing being said.

/end


.

[saysmydoctor]

I watched that whole debate and those Popular Mechanics had a answer for everything presented and when backed into a corner, the kids called them liars or rolled their eyes or snickered like they knew something they didn't know. The conspiracy theorists act with hitherto unforeseen knowledge of the events of that day that experts simply don't have in their eyes and the whole movement is based on arrogance not evidence, so I think that ultimately throws the whole movement's credibility out the window.

[MyNameIsRoss]

I watched that whole debate and those Popular Mechanics had a answer for everything presented and when backed into a corner, the kids called them liars or rolled their eyes or snickered like they knew something they didn't know. The conspiracy theorists act with hitherto unforeseen knowledge of the events of that day that experts simply don't have in their eyes and the whole movement is based on arrogance not evidence, so I think that ultimately throws the whole movement's credibility out the window.

Yeah, I noticed that, too. I wouldn't say that they are arrogant. They just think they are right, and obviously they are in the minority, so when backed into a corner by more "credible" people, they will get defensive. They whole-heartedly think they are right, and I think they have good intentions. Obviously they aren't really benefitting from this whole thing, other than making most people think they are crazy.

[saysmydoctor]

I have no problem looking at things with skepticism, but the conspiracy theorists are basically asking me to look at everything through, as Jon Stewart puts it so eloquently, 'shit colored glasses.' Sorry, I'm going to have to pass there are enough corrupt things in the world to question things that are plain as day fact and I think these people make mountains out of molehills and really distract the issue at hand.

[brentkid]

I watched that whole debate and those Popular Mechanics had a answer for everything presented and when backed into a corner, the kids called them liars or rolled their eyes or snickered like they knew something they didn't know. The conspiracy theorists act with hitherto unforeseen knowledge of the events of that day that experts simply don't have in their eyes and the whole movement is based on arrogance not evidence, so I think that ultimately throws the whole movement's credibility out the window.
They look like assholes the entire time with their nervous laughs and calling the two Popular Mechanic guys liars.

[saysmydoctor]

Hahaha, they were beaten up and down by those guys. When he said the one guy was a water expert or some nonsense and his company didn't verify steel or whatever, how they were just like "I disagree with that, but..." It's like "Dude, you're wrong. Face it. Move on. Go get a degree or something."

[brentkid]

Exactly, they were hit in the face time after time that they're research was very biased and not nearly thorough enough. I love how they rely on "eyewitness reports" despite the notoriety of eyewitness testimonies being horribly unreliable. That and the fact that they zoom in on already-grainy videos to little white specks and claim that demolition explosions were going off throughout the building.

I find it way too implausible that the government could cover this event up, especially with the huge lens that these kids seem to be looking through in terms of who was in on it.

[huntor]

What does any of this have to do with the movie, or the argument. If facts were illogical or unpractical, they would not be facts...Perhaps the word you meant was belief? maybe opinion?
what you said was completely true, but has nothing to with what i said or the movie.
i said i believe in logical and practical facts. there's only one true story, and if you weren't there, you either watched a video of it, heard a taped of it, read it, or someone told you by word of mouth and if that image/sound/story or opinion is backed up by the laws of physics, then i'll believe it.

you can believe jesus preformed miracles.
and you can believe every word the bush/cheney administration has to say.
its your choice, i could really give a fuck.

i choose to believe that the buildings were designed to take airplane hits, that a fire couldn't take down all of those buildings. that jesus didn't walk on water, and wasn't resurrected. i choose to believe that extremely corrupt men would watch millions die for nothing more then money and power. i believe history repeats itself.

And the Christianity/Fox News angle has been worn out for the last 10 years. Its just so...EASY. I personally am bored with this argument. Lets find a new angle, maybe?

lol,
maybe when they stop being ignorant cunts.
and stop holding on to outdated traditions. if every republican was brainwashed by a true democrat.
there would be only peace. they would realize that corruption starts with elected representatives. and that america doesn't have a true democracy, and we are far enough and smart enough as a civilization to have a true direct democracy. i think if there were zero representatives there would be no corruption. theres no need for a republic anymore. no need for people saying what the american people are thinking. we can tell the government ourselves. the government is big enough already.

if you want a new angle. blame politics.

[jwicklun]

what you said was completely true, but has nothing to with what i said or the movie.
i said i believe in logical and practical facts. there's only one true story, and if you weren't there, you either watched a video of it, heard a taped of it, read it, or someone told you by word of mouth and if that image/sound/story or opinion is backed up by the laws of physics, then i'll believe it.

you can believe jesus preformed miracles.
and you can believe every word the bush/cheney administration has to say.
its your choice, i could really give a fuck.

i choose to believe that the buildings were designed to take airplane hits, that a fire couldn't take down all of those buildings. that jesus didn't walk on water, and wasn't resurrected. i choose to believe that extremely corrupt men would watch millions die for nothing more then money and power. i believe history repeats itself.



lol,
maybe when they stop being ignorant cunts.
and stop holding on to outdated traditions. if every republican was brainwashed by a true democrat.
there would be only peace. they would realize that corruption starts with elected representatives. and that america doesn't have a true democracy, and we are far enough and smart enough as a civilization to have a true direct democracy. i think if there were zero representatives there would be no corruption. theres no need for a republic anymore. no need for people saying what the american people are thinking. we can tell the government ourselves. the government is big enough already.

if you want a new angle. blame politics.
you, my friend, need a reality check

[lfdfforever]

you, my friend, need a reality check reality varies from one person to another

[saysmydoctor]

reality varies from one person to another
You know, you try these really vague and ambiguous, almost like you trying to force the impression of you being some open-minded being and that you see the world in a different set of glasses then the rest of us 'mere mortals.' But you don't even know what you are talking about. Still, after the numerous amounts of evidence that counters everything you've presented, you have yet to combat it with anything. If your position is reality, one would think you have evidence that would make me seem like some naive, brainwashed college student has-been who is just another government drone being sucked in by the radical conservative movement and whatever bullshit they spew.

Now I don't even feel that bad for being a jackass in the beginning of this thread and the other thread, but it's like I said--I don't like mollycoddling the stupid and you are, sorry, incredibly stupid.

God dude, and I thought I was egotistical--you're on a whole different plain of egotism. You're egotistical and stupid, it's hilarious really.
what you said was completely true, but has nothing to with what i said or the movie.
i said i believe in logical and practical facts. there's only one true story, and if you weren't there, you either watched a video of it, heard a taped of it, read it, or someone told you by word of mouth and if that image/sound/story or opinion is backed up by the laws of physics, then i'll believe it.

you can believe jesus preformed miracles.
and you can believe every word the bush/cheney administration has to say.
its your choice, i could really give a fuck.

i choose to believe that the buildings were designed to take airplane hits, that a fire couldn't take down all of those buildings. that jesus didn't walk on water, and wasn't resurrected. i choose to believe that extremely corrupt men would watch millions die for nothing more then money and power. i believe history repeats itself.



lol,
maybe when they stop being ignorant cunts.
and stop holding on to outdated traditions. if every republican was brainwashed by a true democrat.
there would be only peace. they would realize that corruption starts with elected representatives. and that america doesn't have a true democracy, and we are far enough and smart enough as a civilization to have a true direct democracy. i think if there were zero representatives there would be no corruption. theres no need for a republic anymore. no need for people saying what the american people are thinking. we can tell the government ourselves. the government is big enough already.

if you want a new angle. blame politics.
What the fuck are you talking about? You chose to believe that? It's that simple, you can hold a position based on no fact or evidence now?

I choose to believe my parents are composed completely of lettuce and that their insides are made of hot dogs. I choose to believe this.

[lfdfforever]

You know, you try these really vague and ambiguous, almost like you trying to force the impression of you being some open-minded being and that you see the world in a different set of glasses then the rest of us 'mere mortals.' But you don't even know what you are talking about. Still, after the numerous amounts of evidence that counters everything you've presented, you have yet to combat it with anything. If your position is reality, one would think you have evidence that would make me seem like some naive, brainwashed college student has-been who is just another government drone being sucked in by the radical conservative movement and whatever bullshit they spew.

Now I don't even feel that bad for being a jackass in the beginning of this thread and the other thread, but it's like I said--I don't like mollycoddling the stupid and you are, sorry, incredibly stupid.

God dude, and I thought I was egotistical--you're on a whole different plain of egotism. You're egotistical and stupid, it's hilarious really.

What the fuck are you talking about? You chose to believe that? It's that simple, you can hold a position based on no fact or evidence now?

I choose to believe my parents are composed completely of lettuce and that their insides are made of hot dogs. I choose to believe this.your insults are well taken. i know you mean well at the end of day. you're just trying to shine the light you've found. good luck.

[TEAMRAMROD]

:popcorn:

[saysmydoctor]

your insults are well taken. i know you mean well at the end of day. you're just trying to shine the light you've found. good luck.
You're welcome or something. I just remembered the ignore list exists. Welcome, first resident.

[lfdfforever]

You're welcome or something. I just remembered the ignore list exists. Welcome, first resident.hahaha

[lfdfforever]

weird 8YaFGSPErKU


strange bMZ-nkYr46w

[Duexy]

thanks for putting it all together for me,
im sure nobody would realized my right middle finger is slightly faster then my left

and i know, its crazy right.
believing in logical and practical facts..
but believing in talking snakes, walking on water, and every word the the fox network has to say is all completely reasonable.

i can distinguish a fabricated scenario from a genuine report any day of the week.
and all it takes is logic and practicality.
the world needs stupid people to believe they saw a statue cry for people like you, and the world needs smart people to prove them wrong for people like me.

and if your own ignorance creates your own bliss, by all means keep believing in what you believe.
i believe in peace, happiness and actuality. i dont need mythical heroes and folk tales to find god and divinity in myself. but some people do.. and its kind of sad..

Nope, thats pretty fucking stupid as well.

[huntor]

reality varies from one person to another

couldn't have said it any better myself.

What the fuck are you talking about? You chose to believe that? It's that simple, you can hold a position based on no fact or evidence now?

I choose to believe my parents are composed completely of lettuce and that their insides are made of hot dogs. I choose to believe this.

you said you were able to follow me,
but you keep asking "what the fuck are you talking about?" goml dude.

of course you can hold your position based on facts and evidence.
most smart people do.

i believe in science. and the scientific method.
which is only here for seeking out the truth.
what really happened, and whats really going on.

you gather facts and pin point them up on your mind and you make the best educated guess you can.
you look at your parents and you think their made of up of lettuce and hot dogs. why? bc thats your best educated guess. people can choose to believe what you think, with zero evidence just like they choose to believe in jesus or that the us gov didn't have anything to do with all the major wars we've been in.

show me proof and show me evidence that 9/11 was merely a bunch of pissed off muslims, and i might believe it. show me proof that jesus lived and was the son of god. some shit you just can't prove.
albert einstein believed in a constant universe, despite the evidence that all the galaxies were moving away from a single point. why? bc he was in his own reality, and his reality and thought process of gravity and energy, was backed up by strong mathematical and scientific evidence and facts. so the smart people/scientific community listened to what he had to say when he proved his theories with the orbit of mercury and with light bending around the sun. however the scientific community realized he was right in curtain areas, but there is more evidence suggesting the universe is expanding and moving. no two people will agree on absolutely everything, bc their both in their own reality.

so once again, believe what you want to believe, believe your parent are made up of hot dogs, that jesus was halfman/halfgod, or that bush didn't bring down those towers, i could really give a fuck.
BUT if your side of the argument has stronger evidence then my side, or any at all for some matters. i'd be more then happy to listen, evaluate and determine if there any truth to your testimony.

Nope, thats pretty fucking stupid as well.
i know its hard to sense sarcasm with written words, but the words "completely reasonable" were chalked full of it.

[TEAMRAMROD]

reality varies from one person to another

couldn't have said it any better myself.

So the reality that 1+1=2 varies between everybody?

[saysmydoctor]

couldn't have said it any better myself.



you said you were able to follow me,
but you keep asking "what the fuck are you talking about?" goml dude.

of course you can hold your position based on facts and evidence.
most smart people do.

i believe in science. and the scientific method.
which is only here for seeking out the truth.
what really happened, and whats really going on.

you gather facts and pin point them up on your mind and you make the best educated guess you can.
you look at your parents and you think their made of up of lettuce and hot dogs. why? bc thats your best educated guess. people can choose to believe what you think, with zero evidence just like they choose to believe in jesus or that the us gov didn't have anything to do with all the major wars we've been in.

show me proof and show me evidence that 9/11 was merely a bunch of pissed off muslims, and i might believe it. show me proof that jesus lived and was the son of god. some shit you just can't prove.
albert einstein believed in a constant universe, despite the evidence that all the galaxies were moving away from a single point. why? bc he was in his own reality, and his reality and thought process of gravity and energy, was backed up by strong mathematical and scientific evidence and facts. so the smart people/scientific community listened to what he had to say when he proved his theories with the orbit of mercury and with light bending around the sun. however the scientific community realized he was right in curtain areas, but there is more evidence suggesting the universe is expanding and moving. no two people will agree on absolutely everything, bc their both in their own reality.

so once again, believe what you want to believe, believe your parent are made up of hot dogs, that jesus was halfman/halfgod, or that bush didn't bring down those towers, i could really give a fuck.
BUT if your side of the argument has stronger evidence then my side, or any at all for some matters. i'd be more then happy to listen, evaluate and determine if there any truth to your testimony.


i know its hard to sense sarcasm with written words, but the words "completely reasonable" were chalked full of it.
Read the whole fucking thread, it's been presented.

[paper halo]

I'm sure this article has been used on previous Zeitgeist threads but here it is again anyway:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

It also contains links to other articles and information debunking various 9/11 conspiracy theories.

[TEAMRAMROD]

I'm sure this article has been used on previous Zeitgeist threads but here it is again anyway:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

It also contains links to other articles and information debunking various 9/11 conspiracy theories.

This line made me lol.
Watching this video is like being bukakked with stupid.

[Shroomkilla]

people are so gullible...on both ends of it... the government does hide shit from us this is true but 911 wasnt an inside job this movie is a waste of time dont watch it

[MyNameIsRoss]

I finally got around to watching the sequel. At least it's interesting, not sure all that stuff about banks is true, but it was kind of entertaining. There is a call for 'social change' at the end, that I agree with regardless of the movie: Don't join the military, make your house and car self-sustainable, don't use big banks ect.

[huntor]

So the reality that 1+1=2 varies between everybody?

not everyone, but some little three-year-old kid out there has the reality that 1+1=4.
bc his not educated enough or his thought process or beliefs are too naive to realize the truth.

just like how some churches/people still believe the world is flat. they choose to believe their retarded ideas and beliefs for their own bliss and happiness. they create their own reality.

Read the whole fucking thread, it's been presented.

no it hasn't.
all the links to the supposed counter-argument anti-conspiracy theories are backed up with absolutely nothing.
zero facts. zero sensibility.

just stupid ass people saying shit like-
The US government has the capability to monitor every electronic communication made anywhere in the world, yet we're expected to believe that they wouldn't be able to nix this kid long before his video ever became popular?

I win. There is no conspiracy. Eat my shit, losers.
blows my mind that people believe in shit and can't even explain why they believe in it.
but i guess the world needs retard people that can't explain themselves.. why? i'll never know..

[saysmydoctor]

Ugh, you are stupid, you don't even know what you are talking about. I'm done with this fucking primitive thread.

[huntor]

I'm done with this fucking primitive thread.

:horse:

..and stay down.

[saysmydoctor]

:horse:

..and stay down.
More like when presented with evidence, you just say it isn't sourced, which is fucking ridiculous. The truth movement is based on eyewitness reports which are notoriously unreliable and old news that happened on the day or the days immediately after which was uttered in the sheer urgency of the situation.

debunking911.com pretty much destroys every conspiracy theory, the conspiracy theorists like to question OUR consistency, but when proven wrong the conspiracy theorists just invent something, like how Flight 93 landed in Cleveland and the government just whisked the survivors away to some labor camp or something.

The government is known to lie, no doubt, but what you are saying happened on 911 is 100% completely wrong, it is based on delusion and falsehoods. I'm all for being skeptical, but your skepticism here is misplaced and misguided and what you believe is wrong. You are wrong. You will never, ever be right in this matter. Ever. Just face it.

[paper halo]

no it hasn't.
all the links to the supposed counter-argument anti-conspiracy theories are backed up with absolutely nothing.
zero facts. zero sensibility.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
(http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html)
As linked in the article you just quoted. If this is all baseless rubbish fed to the gullible masses, I would like to see your point-by-point rebuttals to that article and all the others linked in this debate.

[Pauly Walnuts]

To say that some people went inside three towers, one that very few people even knew about and was not a landmark building in the New York skyline, in the middle of the day setting up bombs in elevator shafts while 5000+ people worked around them is fucking logistically impossible. Military intelligence, CIA, NSA, State Department Intelligence, DIA, Energy Department Intelligence, FBI, do you realize the logistical manpower that would be required to concoct a plan to fool the country? Then the people that were needed to do this, set up bombs to implode the buildings, of which two are over 100 stories and one of which would make no sense to bring down? Then they would have to find planes to be flown into buildings, hire 'mercenaries' who just all happen to be connected to Al Qaeda?

Then they would give it all away by collapsing 7 World Trade Center?

You are a fucking idiot. I mean seriously? http://911truth.org/article.php?story=20041221155307646 You believe this when it isn't even fucking sourced or anything.

These kind of things prop up with everything that has ever occurred concerning the US. It doesn't make sense. Oklahoma City was also a government move? What did that do? Give them someone to execute.

Don't we have enough real problems to face without having invent ones?

Whether or not you want to admit that it was an "inside job" or not, the fact still remains that it was ALLOWED to happen by an entire administration that, for whatever reason, chose to IGNORE or LOOK THE OTHER WAY at the intelligence reports presented to them on multiple occasions leading up to the attacks. The real question is WHY they didn't do anything to stop it. It's not like Osama bin Laden/Al Qaeda were unknown at the time. Our country has had a long history in dealing with them so we knew what they were capable of.

[saysmydoctor]

Whether or not you want to admit that it was an "inside job" or not, the fact still remains that it was ALLOWED to happen by an entire administration that, for whatever reason, chose to IGNORE or LOOK THE OTHER WAY at the intelligence reports presented to them on multiple occasions leading up to the attacks. The real question is WHY they didn't do anything to stop it. It's not like Osama bin Laden/Al Qaeda were unknown at the time. Our country has had a long history in dealing with them so we knew what they were capable of.
No one has denied the intelligence failures of 9/11, which can be blamed on both Clinton and Bush. No one has ever denied the intelligence failures (outside the Bush Administration, they of course say there was no way to stop it). Bush did get memos, Richard Clarke warned them early in the new administration, Clinton had six chances to kill Bin Laden and didn't. But that's not what the Truth Movement is arguing. They are arguing there were controlled demolitions, etc, etc. They're saying the federal government had a hand in what happened. That's what I'm saying is false.

Do I think 9/11 gave him a reason to invade Iraq? No, it didn't--there was never any connection so that theory makes no sense. Didn't stop him from using it as a reason, but as we know, Osama Bin Laden and Hussein never were connected concerning 9/11.

[lfdfforever]

not everyone, but some little three-year-old kid out there has the reality that 1+1=4.
bc his not educated enough or his thought process or beliefs are too naive to realize the truth.

just like how some churches/people still believe the world is flat. they choose to believe their retarded ideas and beliefs for their own bliss and happiness. they create their own reality.



no it hasn't.
all the links to the supposed counter-argument anti-conspiracy theories are backed up with absolutely nothing.
zero facts. zero sensibility.

just stupid ass people saying shit like-

blows my mind that people believe in shit and can't even explain why they believe in it.
but i guess the world needs retard people that can't explain themselves.. why? i'll never know.. dude you're just stupid. you're just a fucking idiot. idiot. idiot. idiot. idiot. idiot. hahaha

[lfdfforever]

a square has four sides.on this planet but the ASA-RRR Empire has something very different.

[ShShShark]

Ugh, you are stupid, you don't even know what you are talking about. I'm done with this fucking primitive thread.

I regret even posting in it to begin with. This has reached a degree of ridiculousness that I could have never expected out of anyone over the age of 12.

[TEAMRAMROD]

not everyone, but some little three-year-old kid out there has the reality that 1+1=4.
bc his not educated enough or his thought process or beliefs are too naive to realize the truth.

just like how some churches/people still believe the world is flat. they choose to believe their retarded ideas and beliefs for their own bliss and happiness. they create their own reality.
That's not a reality, that's just being wrong.
Where did you pull this out of? What churches/people still believe this?
on this planet but the ASA-RRR Empire has something very different.
I'm still awaiting your response to the whole reality is different for everybody.

[lfdfforever]

That's not a reality, that's just being wrong.
Where did you pull this out of? What churches/people still believe this?

I'm still awaiting your response to the whole reality is different for everybody. http://www.africaguide.com/culture/tribes/zulu.htm

[lfdfforever]

I regret even posting in it to begin with. This has reached a degree of ridiculousness that I could have never expected out of anyone over the age of 12. eli litwin is a badass drummer

[huntor]

debunking911.com pretty much destroys every conspiracy theory, the conspiracy theorists like to question OUR consistency, but when proven wrong the conspiracy theorists just invent something, like how Flight 93 landed in Cleveland and the government just whisked the survivors away to some labor camp or something.

come one man.. you really gunna argue with bullshit like that.

Conspiracy theorists say World Trade Center 7 is the best proof for controlled demolition because it wasn't hit by airliners and only had a few fires. They also claim that there was a confession from the building owner who said he "pulled" it. But this is deceptive because while building 7 wasn't hit by an airliner, it was hit by the large perimeter columns of the Tower collapse.

sorry dude. a fuckin column couldn't take down a building like that.

the ok bombing took out 3/4th of the building, while catching the rest of it on fire, but the building never collapsed. why? bc its too fucking hard to take down a structure of that size. and bc modern buildings are designed by smart person to take a power gust of wind, an uncontrollable fire, and some, airplane attacks. those are facts.

that websites full of bullshit. and if your naive enough to believe their half-true and poorly supported perceptives, then i feel sorry for you. too many people get caught up and confused in wordplay that they can't understand the entire truth.

The government is known to lie, no doubt, but what you are saying happened on 911 is 100% completely wrong, it is based on delusion and falsehoods. I'm all for being skeptical, but your skepticism here is misplaced and misguided and what you believe is wrong. You are wrong. You will never, ever be right in this matter. Ever. Just face it.

based on delusion and falsehoods?
either your getting your terminology fucked up, or your a complete idiot.
what i believe is 100% true in my own reality.
..and in all probability, the actual reality.

what you choose to believe is up to you, but i'm more than happy to argue/help guide a future conservative republican toward the power of knowledge and self-awareness any day of the week.

If this is all baseless rubbish fed to the gullible masses, I would like to see your point-by-point rebuttals to that article and all the others linked in this debate.
my rebuttal is the movie we've been talking about. it's got 20 times more logical and researchable evidence and facts to back me up then you and any of your counter-anti-conspiracy websites have.

dude you're just stupid. you're just a fucking idiot. idiot. idiot. idiot. idiot. idiot. hahaha
what an insightful comment.
please do keep 'em coming.

[TEAMRAMROD]

http://www.africaguide.com/culture/tribes/zulu.htm
Their belief system is not a reality.

[saysmydoctor]

come one man.. you really gunna argue with bullshit like that.



sorry dude. a fuckin column couldn't take down a building like that.

the ok bombing took out 3/4th of the building, while catching the rest of it on fire, but the building never collapsed. why? bc its too fucking hard to take down a structure of that size. and bc modern buildings are designed by smart person to take a power gust of wind, an uncontrollable fire, and some, airplane attacks. those are facts.

that websites full of bullshit. and if your naive enough to believe their half-true and poorly supported perceptives, then i feel sorry for you. too many people get caught up and confused in wordplay that they can't understand the entire truth.



based on delusion and falsehoods?
either your getting your terminology fucked up, or your a complete idiot.
what i believe is 100% true in my own reality.
..and in all probability, the actual reality.

what you choose to believe is up to you, but i'm more than happy to argue/help guide a future conservative republican toward the power of knowledge and self-awareness any day of the week.


my rebuttal is the movie we've been talking about. it's got 20 times more logical and researchable evidence and facts to back me up then you and any of your counter-anti-conspiracy websites have.


what an insightful comment.
please do keep 'em coming.
How can we fucking compete with that? If we're all allowed our own individual realities, then I'm married to Natalie Portman.

You are the fucking stupidest person I've ever encountered on this website.

[jwicklun]

come one man.. you really gunna argue with bullshit like that.



sorry dude. a fuckin column couldn't take down a building like that.

the ok bombing took out 3/4th of the building, while catching the rest of it on fire, but the building never collapsed. why? bc its too fucking hard to take down a structure of that size. and bc modern buildings are designed by smart person to take a power gust of wind, an uncontrollable fire, and some, airplane attacks. those are facts.

that websites full of bullshit. and if your naive enough to believe their half-true and poorly supported perceptives, then i feel sorry for you. too many people get caught up and confused in wordplay that they can't understand the entire truth.



based on delusion and falsehoods?
either your getting your terminology fucked up, or your a complete idiot.
what i believe is 100% true in my own reality.
..and in all probability, the actual reality.

what you choose to believe is up to you, but i'm more than happy to argue/help guide a future conservative republican toward the power of knowledge and self-awareness any day of the week.


my rebuttal is the movie we've been talking about. it's got 20 times more logical and researchable evidence and facts to back me up then you and any of your counter-anti-conspiracy websites have.


what an insightful comment.
please do keep 'em coming.
can you please provide evidence that "debunks" the debunkers? I mean evidence that comes from experts in these fields?

[TEAMRAMROD]

You are the fucking stupidest person I've ever encountered on this website.
lfdfforever is right up there.

[huntor]

That's not a reality, that's just being wrong.
Where did you pull this out of? What churches/people still believe this?

I'm still awaiting your response to the whole reality is different for everybody.

a book called the power of myth by joseph campbell.
some roman church out there still believes if you go to the north pole you full of the edge of the world,
granted the book was published probably 20 years ago, and that church might have come around to their senses by now,
but it still helps prove my point.

a reality is what you believe to be true and what you think actually exists.

some peoples reality is filled with god and innocence.
some peoples reality is filled with science and verity.

you can still be wrong and it can still be your reality.

[TEAMRAMROD]

a book called the power of myth by joseph campbell.
some roman church out there still believes if you go to the north pole you full of the edge of the world,
granted the book was published probably 20 years ago, and that church might have come around to their senses by now,
but it still helps prove my point.

a reality is what you believe to be true and what you think actually exists.

some peoples reality is filled with god and innocence.
some peoples reality is filled with science and verity.

you can still be wrong and it can still be your reality.
I'd like to know specifically what church you're talking about because the Bible never claims that the earth is flat.
You need to look up what reality means. By your reasoning, I could believe I'm really Brad Pitt, and since I really believe it, it must be true.

[MyNameIsRoss]

No one has denied the intelligence failures of 9/11, which can be blamed on both Clinton and Bush. No one has ever denied the intelligence failures (outside the Bush Administration, they of course say there was no way to stop it). Bush did get memos, Richard Clarke warned them early in the new administration, Clinton had six chances to kill Bin Laden and didn't. But that's not what the Truth Movement is arguing. They are arguing there were controlled demolitions, etc, etc. They're saying the federal government had a hand in what happened. That's what I'm saying is false.
Do I think 9/11 gave him a reason to invade Iraq? No, it didn't--there was never any connection so that theory makes no sense. Didn't stop him from using it as a reason, but as we know, Osama Bin Laden and Hussein never were connected concerning 9/11.

You're contradicting yourself. Of course they weren't connected. But a lot of stupid americans didn't realize that, and probably still don't. They started a fear campaign and said it was essential to prevent another 9/11. Doesn't have to do with conspiracy, but the administration was very stupid and counted on the ignorance and fear of americans to support the war in the beginning. So to say that 'the 9/11 was used as an incentive for the war' theory doesn't make sense, just isn't true. That makes perfect sense. It doesn't matter if there wasn't actually a connection. The war happened.

[paper halo]

my rebuttal is the movie we've been talking about. it's got 20 times more logical and researchable evidence and facts to back me up then you and any of your counter-anti-conspiracy websites have.

Bahahahaha. Well that's me told.

I'm starting to think you're joking, no one could be this stupid.

[jwicklun]

p7w64fbqYQY&feature=relateda book called the power of myth by joseph campbell.
some roman church out there still believes if you go to the north pole you full of the edge of the world,
granted the book was published probably 20 years ago, and that church might have come around to their senses by now,
but it still helps prove my point.

a reality is what you believe to be true and what you think actually exists.

some peoples reality is filled with god and innocence.
some peoples reality is filled with science and verity.

you can still be wrong and it can still be your reality.

[huntor]

How can we fucking compete with that? If we're all allowed our own individual realities, then I'm married to Natalie Portman.
you keep saying these retard untrue statements, as if youre proving a point.

if you truly believe you are married to natalie portman, maybe by some brain disorder or just pure ignorance.
then that is your reality.

go ask a schizo what his/her reality is. sure as hell wont be the same as yours..

You are the fucking stupidest person I've ever encountered on this website.
i can say the same thing about you. but arguing about whose more stupid is extremely irrelevant. you can keep your reality where you think youre smarter then me, and i'll keep mine where i dont give a fuck bc i know im right.

can you please provide evidence that "debunks" the debunkers? I mean evidence that comes from experts in these fields?
my rebuttal is the movie we've been talking about. it's got 20 times more logical and researchable evidence and facts to back me up then you and any of your counter-anti-conspiracy websites have.
i haven't watched it in a while but im pretty sure the designer of the two towers was in there, the people that build the towers, and a demolitionist point-of-view. im pretty sure it doesn't get any more expert then that.

[ammar]

9/11 probably wasn't an inside job but the CIA probably knew something big was gonna happen or the CIA was also involve a little bit in it. There is no way the USA didn't know anything about 9/11 before it happened.

[jwicklun]

you keep saying these retard untrue statements, as if youre proving a point.

if you truly believe you are married to natalie portman, maybe by some brain disorder or just pure ignorance.
then that is your reality.

go ask a schizo what his/her reality is. sure as hell wont be the same as yours..


i can say the same thing about you. but arguing about whose more stupid is extremely irrelevant. you can keep your reality where you think youre smarter then me, and i'll keep mine where i dont give a fuck bc i know im right.



i haven't watched it in a while but im pretty sure the designer of the two towers was in there, the people that build the towers, and a demolitionist point-of-view. im pretty sure it doesn't get any more expert then that.
ok normally I try not to be a jackass, but you are a fucking idiot. Your answers make no sense, your so called reality is wrong, and your ignorance for science and physics is incredible. I am done with you, now stop talking.

[huntor]

I'd like to know specifically what church you're talking about because the Bible never claims that the earth is flat.
You need to look up what reality means. By your reasoning, I could believe I'm really Brad Pitt, and since I really believe it, it must be true.

i know more about personal reality and the conscious mind then you will in your entire life. i could write a entire book on here about what you believe is true is your own reality. but it's easier to tell you to go read books.
educate yourself on the subject before opposing it like ignorant cunts. go read the power of your subconscious mind. it can explain it better then i ever could.

word for word out of the book "a roman church"

but even if thats not true, 5000 years ago everyone on earth, except a select few, believed the world was flat.
that was their reality. that was what they believed. i dont know if i can dumb-it-down for you any more then that..

[Mibabalou]

12 pages of hippies arguing with rednecks FTW!!


this is why i will never post in here again

[huntor]

ok normally I try not to be a jackass, but you are a fucking idiot. Your answers make no sense, your so called reality is wrong, and your ignorance for science and physics is incredible. I am done with you, now stop talking.

my ignorance for science and physics is incredible? rolf.
maybe you should tell me how im being ignorant, instead of posting pointless comments.
make a point jackass. tell me why i am wrong instead calling me a fucking idiot.
or do both, that's what i usually do. you fucking idiot.

[Shroomkilla]

political threads make me lol

[lfdfforever]

come one man.. you really gunna argue with bullshit like that.



sorry dude. a fuckin column couldn't take down a building like that.

the ok bombing took out 3/4th of the building, while catching the rest of it on fire, but the building never collapsed. why? bc its too fucking hard to take down a structure of that size. and bc modern buildings are designed by smart person to take a power gust of wind, an uncontrollable fire, and some, airplane attacks. those are facts.

that websites full of bullshit. and if your naive enough to believe their half-true and poorly supported perceptives, then i feel sorry for you. too many people get caught up and confused in wordplay that they can't understand the entire truth.



based on delusion and falsehoods?
either your getting your terminology fucked up, or your a complete idiot.
what i believe is 100% true in my own reality.
..and in all probability, the actual reality.

what you choose to believe is up to you, but i'm more than happy to argue/help guide a future conservative republican toward the power of knowledge and self-awareness any day of the week.


my rebuttal is the movie we've been talking about. it's got 20 times more logical and researchable evidence and facts to back me up then you and any of your counter-anti-conspiracy websites have.


what an insightful comment.
please do keep 'em coming.saysmydoctor owns the copyright to that statement haha

[lfdfforever]

Their belief system is not a reality.the state of things as they actually exist

[lfdfforever]

12 pages of hippies arguing with rednecks FTW!!


this is why i will never post in here againyou nailed it

[macabre]

my rebuttal is the movie we've been talking about. it's got 20 times more logical and researchable evidence and facts to back me up then you and any of your counter-anti-conspiracy websites have.

Are you really that arrogant?

[huntor]

some of these kids dont even deserve responses.

[saysmydoctor]

You're contradicting yourself. Of course they weren't connected. But a lot of stupid americans didn't realize that, and probably still don't. They started a fear campaign and said it was essential to prevent another 9/11. Doesn't have to do with conspiracy, but the administration was very stupid and counted on the ignorance and fear of americans to support the war in the beginning. So to say that 'the 9/11 was used as an incentive for the war' theory doesn't make sense, just isn't true. That makes perfect sense. It doesn't matter if there wasn't actually a connection. The war happened.
But my original point was that it was never connected to it so it didn't make sense to use it as a reason. I even mentioned that it didn't stop them from using it as one. You highlighted. Read things.
you keep saying these retard untrue statements, as if youre proving a point.

if you truly believe you are married to natalie portman, maybe by some brain disorder or just pure ignorance.
then that is your reality.

go ask a schizo what his/her reality is. sure as hell wont be the same as yours..


i can say the same thing about you. but arguing about whose more stupid is extremely irrelevant. you can keep your reality where you think youre smarter then me, and i'll keep mine where i dont give a fuck bc i know im right.
Wait, so this is a double standard. You can't be wrong because it's your reality, but if my reality in my eyes is my being married to Natalie Portman, I have a brain disorder?

Do you even know what you are talking about? Arguing who happens to be stupid and who isn't appears to very relevant because it kind of shows who has credibility and who doesn't? You are incredibly idiotic, so I should really take everything you say with a grain of salt, while I'm not an idiot and have presented actual evidence not ambiguous statements like "In my reality, what I believe is true because it's my reality." That's a really ignorant and stupid thing to say, so it kind of reveals to everyone that we should be laughing at you, not debating with you.

Which brings me back to how I'm done with this thread.
some of these kids dont even deserve responses.
The only right thing you have said.

[macabre]

go read the power of your subconscious mind. it can explain it better then i ever could.

Can someone say pseudo-science?

The Power of Your Subconscious Mind (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553583182/ref=s9_simz_gw_s0_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=AT VPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1NB0W02XW9SZZ7NNRQKF&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846)

From the Publisher
"I have seen miracles happen to men and women in all walks of life all over the world." -- Dr. Joseph Murphy. At last, a great new scientific discovery brings the incredible force of your subconscious mind under your control. Here are the simple, scientifically proven techniques and the astonishing facts about how your subconscious powers can perform miracles of healing. How lung cancer has been cured and optic nerves made whole again. How you can use the newly discovered Law of Attraction to increase your money-getting powers. How your subconscious mind can win you friends, peace of mind, and even help you to attract the ideal mate. How your dreams can help you solve problems and make difficult decisions -- or warn you of potential disaster. Prosperity, happiness and perfect health are yours when you use The Power Of Your Subconscious Mind. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

[huntor]

Wait, so this is a double standard. You can't be wrong because it's your reality, but if my reality in my eyes is my being married to Natalie Portman, I have a brain disorder?

no dude. you can be wrong and it can still be your reality.
n yes, if you believe in your reality that youre married to natalie portman. and it's completely untrue.
then yes. you probably have a brain disorder.

maybe your dumbass can relate to a matrix analogy.

if we all lived in the matrix. that would be our reality. bc thats the world we believe the world is, bc we dont know any better and are too naive to realize the actual reality.

and our reality is completely false and untrue, until morpheus comes along and show us another reality. the reality of the real world.

Do you even know what you are talking about? Arguing who happens to be stupid and who isn't appears to very relevant because it kind of shows who has credibility and who doesn't? You are incredibly idiotic, so I should really take everything you say with a grain of salt, while I'm not an idiot and have presented actual evidence not ambiguous statements like "In my reality, what I believe is true because it's my reality." That's a really ignorant and stupid thing to say, so it kind of reveals to everyone that we should be laughing at you, not debating with you.

our public school system=fail


Can someone say pseudo-science?

The Power of Your Subconscious Mind

dont judge a book by it's cover.

the dude had a PhD in psychology. i think he knows what he's talking about.
unlike you. pseudo-science? shitson..

[MyNameIsRoss]

But my original point was that it was never connected to it so it didn't make sense to use it as a reason. I even mentioned that it didn't stop them from using it as one. You highlighted. Read things.



I did read your post, motherfucker. That was the contradiction I pointed out. ;-)

[macabre]

the dude had a PhD in psychology. i think he knows what he's talking about.
unlike you. pseudo-science? shitson..

Great, another appeal to authority (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html). I don't know if you know this but there are plenty of psychologists with Ph. D.'s that end up writing pop psychology books or starring in TV shows (http://sarcasticgamer.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/drphil.jpg); just because they have a Ph. D. does not mean their theories are right. Many of these writers use their diplomas to con people into buying their books because of people like you who think "they're an expert, they must be right". As for your point about me not knowing what I'm talking about, I actually conduct research in psychology so don't make assumptions if you don't know who I am. I have access to databases that list psychological research studies so I went ahead and looked for Joseph Murphy's famous studies on the subconscious and positive thinking. Here's the complete number of studies published by Joseph Murphy (Ph. D., USC):

ZERO

Not one study has ever been published by Joseph Murphy in a peer-reviewed journal, nor any journal for that matter, on the subject of the subconscious or positive thinking. You would think that a so-called expert in the field would at least have one study demonstrating the power of positive thinking. I found plenty of studies from a Joseph Murphy who loved studying education but that's about it. You can do a search on him over here (http://www.apa.org/psycinfo/) but you may need to pay a fee, unless you're a psychology student and your university offers it for free.

No credible psychologist would ever argue that positive thinking cures lung cancer or blindness unless they had a financial motive to do so. Studies have shown that being optimistic helps people deal with terminal illnesses and may increase their chances of survival but you would be hard pressed to find any psychologists who would ever claim that it CURES them. To believe that positive thinking cures cancer or blindness is pseudoscience, there's no way around it.

[saysmydoctor]

In her reality, there are thousands of studies published by Joseph Murphy, Ph.D., so this proves nothing essentially. You can't compete with someone who says in their subjective reality, what they believe is true because it's unique to their reality, which is how this guy has argued since he first posted in the thread. So you think you've won, but you've lost.

[huntor]

Im done with this tread, good luck in life.
Your gunna need it.

Sent for my iPhone while at the straylight run concert.

[macabre]

This is about as pointless as arguing with my gma about Christ. There's no end and it's impossible to win.
Swear, no matter how many different I say it, she refuses to believe her grandsons don't believe in fairy tales anymore.

Joseph Murphy on the other hand. That guy cured cancer, blindness, and became a millionaire with positive thinking. Now, that's a true messiah.

[lfdfforever]

reality bites

[Duexy]

also cocks

[open mind]

But he didn't come in here like that. When first posted about this, he made it seem like we were all idiots for not taking the AIA's word for it (which someone pointed as an appeal to authority). I mean, I understand your point and you're right, but at the same time, eh.

Also, found this:

gsUYhrXonXQ&feature=player_embedded

if someone is wrong but still has a superior attitude you don't have to make them feel as stupid as humanly possible. i know that in the internet age tact isn't outwardly appreciated or recognized, but that doesn't mean being a dick works.
overblown hostility in the face of idiocy only ends up making you look stupid is my only point really.

[open mind]

the jesus story was plagiarized
every war was fueled by corrupted politics.
the downfall of the economy is bc of greedy central bankers who died years ago, but left their fraudulent system on paper for future greedy cunts.
and 9/11 was a cheney administration step up..

all true.
no matter how naive you are, and no matter how many time you say different it's still gunna be true.
facts are facts, & stories are stories. believe what you want, and if you can't tell an edited revised story from factuality,
then your extremely exploitable. and you need to take a step back and realize what you are..
:sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep: :sheep::sheep:

please explain how you came to these conclusions.

[open mind]

there is no truth, only a perspective.

....provided you've bought into the bullshit philosophers have told you.

[MynameisMila]

Zeitgeist was very well produced and very entertaining but atleast in the first one most of it can be disputed. there are two sides to every argument and if you've seen the first one, i suggest you research it yourself and go to conspiracyscience.com... I mean don't take that as all of your research but use it as a guideline.

I liked the Zeitgeist:Addendum much more. But I haven't done too much research on it yet, I just saw it a few days ago.

[MyNameIsRoss]

Zeitgeist was very well produced and very entertaining but atleast in the first one most of it can be disputed. there are two sides to every argument and if you've seen the first one, i suggest you research it yourself and go to conspiracyscience.com... I mean don't take that as all of your research but use it as a guideline.

I liked the Zeitgeist:Addendum much more. But I haven't done too much research on it yet, I just saw it a few days ago.


I fucking hate your username.

[MynameisMila]

I fucking hate your username.

thats unfortunate. you'd probably hate me more if I told you it isn't even my name. good luck with that.

[MynameisMila]

http://media.nscdn.com/uploads/cache/images/1231301842-725981-400x440-hulk_hogan_9-11.jpgactually if you really want the truth about 9/11 :

[jwicklun]

http://media.nscdn.com/uploads/cache/images/1231301842-725981-400x440-hulk_hogan_9-11.jpgactually if you really want the truth about 9/11 :
....it all makes sense now!

[TEAMRAMROD]

Somehow I think pictures like that wouldn't be posted if you had been personally affected by 9/11.

[GeeBee]

Somehow I think pictures like that wouldn't be posted if you had been personally affected by 9/11.

Somehow I think humor is a valid way of coping with a tragedy.

[TEAMRAMROD]

Somehow I think humor is a valid way of coping with a tragedy.
I agree. Just doesn't sit too well with me personally.

[GeeBee]

I agree. Just doesn't sit too well with me personally.

Being offended is a choice.

[TEAMRAMROD]

Being offended is a choice.
Very true.

[jwicklun]

Very true.
as fucked up as that picture was, it goes hand in hand with those conspiracy theories in bullshit.

[TEAMRAMROD]

as fucked up as that picture was, it goes hand in hand with those conspiracy theories in bullshit.
Agreed.

[loveisdead]

This is the best one I could find to bump for you guys.

[Jason Tate]

This is the best one I could find to bump for you guys.
Oh no, not more of this. Hahah.

[caveBEAR]

'It couldn't have been a plane hitting the Pentagon! He was just a pilot in training, and that's a 1 in a million angle! What must have happened is the government firing a missile into the Pentagon (from an unseen location), flew a drone plane overhead (you know, so the sheeple can say they saw a plane!), and then murder all the sheeple who don't bend to our will!!! BWA HA HA HA HA!'

It all makes sense...
:rolleyes:

[Zeran]

after watching the 9/11 part in zeitgeist a couple years ago, i was pretty suspicious that some things didn't add up. i don't believe in the conspiracy theories, but a few of their points do make one wonder...

[loveisdead]

Oh no, not more of this. Hahah.

I'd rather them discuss it here than have the mosque thread hijacked.heh

[peder458]

after watching the 9/11 part in zeitgeist a couple years ago, i was pretty suspicious that some things didn't add up. i don't believe in the conspiracy theories, but a few of their points do make one wonder...

Out of curiosity, which parts specifically?

[Paulie4star]

Aw shit... This again?

[peder458]

...it will never die :)

[perceptrons]

...it will never die :)
Much like the truth about the Moon landing.

[EasySkankin]

I'd rather them discuss it here than have the mosque thread hijacked.heh

9/11 is the reason we are having a discussion about the mosque.

[loveisdead]

9/11 is the reason we are having a discussion about the mosque.

Read the last 3 pages of the thread. Where was the mosque brought up?

[Zeran]

Out of curiosity, which parts specifically?
welll, i haven't watched it for over 2 years, but from what i remember, the parts about how the steel melted when the buildings fell and the lack of wreckage/video evidence at the pentagon just seemed kind of odd, to me.

[EasySkankin]

Read the last 3 pages of the thread. Where was the mosque brought up?

Your point is?

Americans establish islam as the source of inspiration for the 9/11 attacks --> Americans see building a mosque at the site as an appeasement to attackers, a disgrace, yadda yadda

In the mosque debate, I would argue against the first point on the grounds that the attack was allowed to happen, a military stand-down order was given, that the participants were probably for the most part ignorant about their own role in the affair, and that this was staged to antagonize Islam for multiple ends, one obviously being our occupation in the middle east. The mosque issue is a stupid trivial thing brought to attention for the sake of the November polls, and is a biproduct of a much more important all-encompassing issue, which 9/11 is a central part of.

Everything is related. If we have a conversation about cars, we can talk about cars, but we might fall into a discussion about combustion, the automobile-parts industry, environmental damage, traffic law, etc. That is not a hindrance to the conversation, but an evolution of it.

[Scrandon]

Steel didn't melt, it was just weakened.

[loveisdead]

Your point is?

Americans establish islam as the source of inspiration for the 9/11 attacks --> Americans see building a mosque at the site as an appeasement to attackers, a disgrace, yadda yadda

In the mosque debate, I would argue against the first point on the grounds that the attack was allowed to happen, a military stand-down order was given, that the participants were probably for the most part ignorant about their own role in the affair, and that this was staged to antagonize Islam for multiple ends, one obviously being our occupation in the middle east. The mosque issue is a stupid trivial thing brought to attention for the sake of the November polls, and is a biproduct of a much more important all-encompassing issue, which 9/11 is a central part of.

Everything is related. If we have a conversation about cars, we can talk about cars, but we might fall into a discussion about combustion, the automobile-parts industry, environmental damage, traffic law, etc. That is not a hindrance to the conversation, but an evolution of it.

I didn't read a word after "your point is?"

My point is the thread became an argument over who caused 9/11 and had nothing to do with the community center. Those arguing all said they'd rather argue about it in a thread more suited to their argument. I bumped this thread.

[EasySkankin]

If that were the case, the steel couldn't have weakened uniformly through the whole structure to make it pull into itself (like a controlled demolition would). Weight would've been distributed to one side making it "topple", but that's not what happened.

[EasySkankin]

I didn't read a word after "your point is?"

cool, I don't have to read your posts either

[loveisdead]

cool, I don't have to read your posts either

So don't. I'm out with friends, and was just checking in to make sure shit isn't getting crazy in here.

[Scrandon]

If that were the case, the steel couldn't have weakened uniformly through the whole structure to make it pull into itself (like a controlled demolition would). Weight would've been distributed to one side making it "topple", but that's not what happened.

It also didn't fall as if explosives were planted in the bottom of the tower. I would love to watch the fall of the towers over and over again to debate the subtle nuances of the collapse, but it's still quite depressing for me to watch. I'm not going to ruin my night because some crazy guy on the Internet wants to make shit up. I'll just have to trust the scientists on this one.

[EasySkankin]

It also didn't fall as if explosives were planted in the bottom of the tower. I would love to watch the fall of the towers over and over again to debate the subtle nuances of the collapse, but it's still quite depressing for me to watch. I'm not going to ruin my night because some crazy guy on the Internet wants to make shit up. I'll just have to trust the scientists on this one.

You're right, It didn't fall as if explosives were at the bottom. If you just google the numerous testimonials, people didn't hear just one explosion but many, in perfect sequence. There are a few theories.

But yeah maybe I should just trust the few scientists on the official report. I mean shit, if they got the title, what they say must be true.

[Scrandon]

You're right, It didn't fall as if explosives were at the bottom. If you just google the numerous testimonials, people didn't hear just one explosion but many, in perfect sequence. There are a few theories.

But yeah maybe I should just trust the few scientists on the official report. I mean shit, if they got the title, what they say must be true.

Did you just downplay the credibility of scientists, while citing as evidence people hearing "many explosions"?

What a compelling revelation... Anyway, I'd take scientific analysis over anecdotal, eyewitness reports any day of the week.

[EasySkankin]

Did you just downplay the credibility of some scientists, while citing as evidence people hearing "many explosions"?

What a compelling revelation... Anyway, I'd take scientific analysis over anecdotal, eyewitness reports any day of the week.

Fixed.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/eyewitnesses.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJO_7Ca6VFE

http://www.rense.com/general17/eyewitnessreportspersist.htm

http://www.infowars.com/key-witness-to-wtc-7-explosions-on-911-dead-at-53/

http://proliberty.com/observer/20050716.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egIrVyM3FGY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A9X_8flGeM&feature=related

I'm not saying I know for sure everything that happened, but an overwhelming amount of people talked about explosions, and an empirical analysis of the attack is in stark contrast to the official report.

[Scrandon]

Yea, there were explosions. They were caused by a plan crashing into the building.

This is so dumb.

[EasySkankin]

Weak.

[caveBEAR]

Weak.

1.) The buildings fall at an angle. Watch the video of the towers collapsing and you can particularly see it on the tower with the antenna (I forget which one that was at the moment). The buildings don't come collapsing down entirely sideways like a Jenga tower because of the enormous physics of the building. The tower begins to fall where the steel is weakest, but due to the weight above the burning zone, once one part of the steel begins to slacken, no other steel can hold, so the tower collapses on itself, and not 'perfectly' like a controlled demolition.

2.) The explosions people heard was the air firing out of all the windows as the tower began it's collapse, as well as general explosions related to a skyscraper imploding. As well, it would be (as expressed previously by me in this thread or the Ground Zero Mosque one) damn near impossible to secretly prep the two towers for a controlled demolition; if you know what actually goes into prepping a controlled demolition, the idea that the terrorists were able to secretly set up bombs in the building in the time leading up to 9/11 is downright laughable.

3.) Three of your sources above are from YouTube. You might as well just say, 'I have no real evidence, so here's a lunatic!' and then post the link.

[deFobbed14yrs]

1.) The buildings fall at an angle. Watch the video of the towers collapsing and you can particularly see it on the tower with the antenna (I forget which one that was at the moment). The buildings don't come collapsing down entirely sideways like a Jenga tower because of the enormous physics of the building. The tower begins to fall where the steel is weakest, but due to the weight above the burning zone, once one part of the steel begins to slacken, no other steel can hold, so the tower collapses on itself, and not 'perfectly' like a controlled demolition.

2.) The explosions people heard was the air firing out of all the windows as the tower began it's collapse, as well as general explosions related to a skyscraper imploding. As well, it would be (as expressed previously by me in this thread or the Ground Zero Mosque one) damn near impossible to secretly prep the two towers for a controlled demolition; if you know what actually goes into prepping a controlled demolition, the idea that the terrorists were able to secretly set up bombs in the building in the time leading up to 9/11 is downright laughable.

3.) Three of your sources above are from YouTube. You might as well just say, 'I have no real evidence, so here's a lunatic!' and then post the link.

:hug:

I like that you keep fighting the good fight.

[caveBEAR]

:hug:

I like that you keep fighting the good fight.

I've been told I'm like Iron Man, only there's a Bullshit Detector where my Arc-Reactor should be.

/nerdy

[EasySkankin]

1.) The buildings fall at an angle. Watch the video of the towers collapsing and you can particularly see it on the tower with the antenna (I forget which one that was at the moment). The buildings don't come collapsing down entirely sideways like a Jenga tower because of the enormous physics of the building. The tower begins to fall where the steel is weakest, but due to the weight above the burning zone, once one part of the steel begins to slacken, no other steel can hold, so the tower collapses on itself, and not 'perfectly' like a controlled demolition.
Well you have to take into account that a plane flew into the building, making the frame layout uneven. The first tower (without antenna) that fell did so with the top at an angle, most videos attest to that. If you look at the second (north) tower in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGAofwkAOlo&feature=related) for example, you can see that something in the center of the tower gave way, because the antenna moves just a second before the actual collapse, and you can see a slight dip in the latter part of the video in the center of the building.

2.) The explosions people heard was the air firing out of all the windows as the tower began it's collapse, as well as general explosions related to a skyscraper imploding. As well, it would be (as expressed previously by me in this thread or the Ground Zero Mosque one) damn near impossible to secretly prep the two towers for a controlled demolition; if you know what actually goes into prepping a controlled demolition, the idea that the terrorists were able to secretly set up bombs in the building in the time leading up to 9/11 is downright laughable.
Well enlighten me as to how this is an impossible task.

That said, I myself am not 100% committed to the idea of a controlled demolition of the towers, but building 7 was certainly one. The official report initially stated, however, that it collapsed from internal fires. Even the buildings that were in closer proximity to the towers still held their foundations after being collapsed and set ablaze:

http://www.pbs.org/americarebuilds/images/engineering_img_b_wtc4.jpg
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/docs/wtc3_7064.jpg

So ultimately what leads me to speculate on the collapse of the towers is building 7. Why was it demolished?

3.) Three of your sources above are from YouTube. You might as well just say, 'I have no real evidence, so here's a lunatic!' and then post the link.
If you watched them then you'd know I wasn't giving you links to some truther on a tirade, all those links were testimonies of people distinctly hearing explosions and the videos were from news reports and amateur videos. I wasn't being empirical there, obviously, just making that point.

[jwicklun]

gH02Eh44yUg

[deFobbed14yrs]

I've been told I'm like Iron Man, only there's a Bullshit Detector where my Arc-Reactor should be.

/nerdy

haha i know a little what you are referencing thanks to my ex-boyfriend who is obsessed with iron man. But unlike you he is a tool who probably would not understand anything this thread talks about and could not eloquently shit on someone's retarded comment like you lol.

[icantdecide]

Ehh. I did enjoy Zeitgeist, but not because I believe in anything that's on there. I like it the same way I liked the Matrix.