Red Sox trade for Coco Crisp

[hockey0001]

Red Sox and Indians have agreed in principle to trade Coco Crisp for Andy Marte and Guillermo Mota.

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=122417&format=text

The sox finally got a center fielder but I dont like the fact that they are giving up Marte to get one.

[Yankees' #1 Fan]

there's gonna be more people involved in the trade, you should probably wait until the deal is official before passing judgement on it.

[mikeford]

trading marte for coco crisp..


OOOOOOOF

[Trainsaw]

i like that guys name

[hockey0001]

there's gonna be more people involved in the trade, you should probably wait until the deal is official before passing judgement on it.

There is nothing official saying that there is or isnt more players involved. And this trade is still basically just a rumor right now because the Boston Herald is the only place reporting it. If the trade goes as it is rumored to right now, i dont like it. Giving up Marte for Crisp isnt a good deal.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

So, which thread are we going to post in? MLB offseason, or this? I will go with this sense its dedicated to the subject. If this is so, I guess I repost what I did in the other thread.

This is from a Red Sox analyst on the message board, Sons of Sam Horn
Bill James: .296 / .348 / .442

Ron Shandler: .290 / .339 / .468

However, he'd be moving from the second worst hitter's park in MLB, 2003-5 (tied with RFK and Dodger Stadium) to the fourth best. In particular, playing half your games at the Jake reduces HR for a RHB by 14%, while Fenway gives a 6.5% boost. James' projection of 13 HR becomes 16, Shandler's 20 becomes 25. James projects 34 2B, 4 3B, which becomes 38 2B, 5 3B.

BA gets a boost (from -2% to +1.5%). Let's see . . .

Crisp in Fenway, BJ, something like .307 / .358 / .479 (Damon: .292 / .361 / .425)

(Wow . . . I did that by components, and the 47 point boost in OPS matches my quick-and-dirty rule of thumb for a guy moving from a Run Index of 87 to
110: (110-87)*2 = 46. Good!)

RS, something like .300 / .348 / .514 (Damon: .295 / .359 / .429)

(Well, he's getting a 55 point OPS boost here . . . probably because, with these two parks, power hitters are helped more than OBP guys and Shandler has him as more of a HR guy than James does.)

He'd be a very potent #6 hitter, allowing Lowell to hit 7 or 8, which would take some pressure off him. With Loretta and Youkilis, I don't see why the new CF has to hit 1 or 2.

Also, you also have to take into account the value of this trade. If it is true about Marte that he will be ready for full time play in 07, then wouldn't you think Crisp is more value to us over short term than Marte. Considering that it takes rookies a few years (even the good ones) to come to full potential. For a team that needs a CF, making this trade makes sense. The Indians have the luxury of being able to wait on Marte, while the Sox need young guys to produce now. Beckett, Crisp, and even Youks are the answer to that. No doubt giving up a top 10, top 5 hitting prospect sucks, but we don't know how well Marte will produce. Also, we kept our big arms, which might show the Sox value pitching more than they do offense (why wouldn’t you with this market?) and that they believe they can replace the production Marte could of given them down the road for a good price.


Something I also thought about...the Sox have a team option on Manny for 09. Now I would bet they're not going to exercise that option...hell, they could trade him before that. But, Crisp is a left fielder, and Ellsbury is our hot CF prospect. This also opens up the possibility to trade Manny for hot prospects and make a run at D. Lee or Jones, or someone, to replace Manny's production. I’m not saying this is why they're making the trades, but it does open options for Manny, since we could have two LF.

And, if you think about it, we now also have pitching to trade for a RF/4th OF, and bench pieces/prospects.

All in all, I don’t like giving up Marte, but if were getting Crisp + prospects in return, I don’t mind. We get the CF we need, one who played better than Damon last year, and the Indians get a potential great hitting corner IF. I would say its a fair trade, considering needs.

[mcfly21]

i have no idea why the indians are so stupid

Coco is a fan favorite and a very good leadoff man. As an indians fan, I say this deal blows

[NetNerdsRevenge]

I think the general consensus on both sides is that it sucks, but really it makes for both teams. If you trade Crisp, you will no doubt get a LF, Michaels is the top runner. Marte is going to a good/great/super star 3B for the Indians, and Crisp is going to be a good/great CF for the Red Sox. Marte will probably be better than Crisp, so the Indians throw in grade A prospects, and we throw in Mota to balance it out.

[Emopunkthrice]

"Report: Tribe, Sox close!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on Crisp deal"

[LeftWideOpen]

I think the general consensus on both sides is that it sucks, but really it makes for both teams. If you trade Crisp, you will no doubt get a LF, Michaels is the top runner. Marte is going to a good/great/super star 3B for the Indians, and Crisp is going to be a good/great CF for the Red Sox. Marte will probably be better than Crisp, so the Indians throw in grade A prospects, and we throw in Mota to balance it out.

I like this deal if we get a young kid or two thats a solid prospect. Marte and Mota is way too much for just Crisp though.

[mouood]

The deal's not done yet, I got this from ESPN.com:

The Herald reported the deal hinged on the Indians' ability to acquire another outfielder, possibly in a trade for the Phillies' Jason Michaels or through signing free agent Jeff DeVanon, formerly of the Angels.

[LeftWideOpen]

The deal's not done yet, I got this from ESPN.com:

The Herald reported the deal hinged on the Indians' ability to acquire another outfielder, possibly in a trade for the Phillies' Jason Michaels or through signing free agent Jeff DeVanon, formerly of the Angels.

yeah, the Herald is known to jump the gun too. This deal could not happen and it wouldnt surprise me.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

I like this deal if we get a young kid or two thats a solid prospect. Marte and Mota is way too much for just Crisp though.
Of course. That’s why the Indians will throw (hopefully) in prospects to balance it out. Both teams are smart and will not get screwed. I think the Sox could easily trade for Michaels at this point and avoid the whole situation, but they must see Crisp as a much more valuable player. The Indians are in need of a 3B and we have him. The way I see it, both the Indians and Red Sox have something the other team wants. I’m fairly confident this will end up a fair deal.

[mikeford]

crisp is MUCH better than michaels... the consensus out of philly is that michaels is a 4th OF at best.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

he has a very high obp and good slg. I'm not sure what Philly doesn't see, but it would explain his lack of playing time.

[Doug]

the way i think about this: this is like trading renteria for coco crisp, which i have no problem with.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

the way i think about this: this is like trading renteria for coco crisp, which i have no problem with.
Maybe if this was a three way deal, but this was a trade, Marte + for Crisp +. Renteria should be apart of it.

[Doug]

Maybe if this was a three way deal, but this was a trade, Marte + for Crisp +. Renteria should be apart of it.

i mean, it was basically a delayed three way deal

[Yankees' #1 Fan]

thats nonsense

[Dirty Ernie]

he has a very high obp and good slg. I'm not sure what Philly doesn't see, but it would explain his lack of playing time.


i would be completely comfortable with michaels starting right field if the phils could move abreu...he is a 4th outfielder in philly but he would start on many teams

[NetNerdsRevenge]

i mean, it was basically a delayed three way deal
Well if we traded Youkilis for a top 10 prospect, which we then flipped for Lugo, would you be happy with a Youkilis for Lugo deal? how about a top 10 for Lugo?

Not that it is the same level of value, but its an example.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

i would be completely comfortable with michaels starting right field if the phils could move abreu...he is a 4th outfielder in philly but he would start on many teams
as would I if we could find some way to drop Nixon and get Michaels.

[LeftWideOpen]

as would I if we could find some way to drop Nixon and get Michaels.

I love what Trot Nixon brings to the team in terms of intangibles, but I think he's peaked in terms of talent. I think this offseason is a great time to try and deal him while still getting some good value in return.

[Jfk1117]

The Tribe is not going to throw in anybody. You have to realize what the tribe is giving up. A solid switch number two hitter who is the most concistant player on the team. Also not to mention hes been voted the best left fielder in the game byu several sources. The Indians are only going to make the deal if they can pry Centerfielder Michaels from the Phils. To do this they must trade Arthur Rhodes or Rafael Betancourt. Coco is a solid player all around and will be greatly missed in Cleveland. Fans from Boston saying your giving up too much is wrong. You giving up a player in Marte who could-be and a relief pitcher who hasnt yet proved himself. In trade your getting a CENTERFIELDER, which you despeately need. who has proven himself. The tribe will take a step back, but will benefit in the longrun

[NetNerdsRevenge]

You giving up a player in Marte who could-be and a relief pitcher who hasnt yet proved himself. In trade your getting a CENTERFIELDER, which you despeately need. who has proven himself. The tribe will take a step back, but will benefit in the longrun
Marte's AAA numbers are very similar to those of Chipper Jones. The Braves GM (I don’t want to attempt and spell his name) said that Marte was the best prospect he has given up, and Marte is very, very, very highly regarded. top 10 is every prospect list. And how has Mota not proven anything? He has 7 years in the Majors and was a premier set up man in LA. Crisp's main position in major league baseball is and was left field. Yes, he has played center before, but we don’t know how well he will play it at Fenway. How are the Indians going to take a step back? They have a young team who is only going to get better, and either Michaels or Davannon will not hurt their offense. The Indians will go head to head with the White Sox for the central this year, and I think will win it. Not only will they be good this year, they will be good for years to come with Marte.

[Yankees' #1 Fan]

i was equally as annoyed by jfks post

[Jfk1117]

It doesnt matter what someone regards somebody as. The tribe has a prospect right now, Garko who they regard very highly and has had interest from teams and the man will be lucky to be on the roster. You have to prove yourself through a 162 game season not by word of mouth. If we get Michaels Ill be pleased, but you can't seriosuly say Devanon is the real deal. Im just frustarted with the tribes lack of closing deals and keeping players. As stated earlier Coco is a fan favorite and to me is the most consistant player on our team. The tribe still lacks a righthanded power hitter and a right fielder. Were stuck once again with Casey Blake in right and Broussard at 1st. Why not just get Michaels and be stuck with only one spot to fill. Annoyed as you were by my post, the Indians did not have a good offseason. They kept their offense, lost pitching. I guess our best hope is that we learned from our hellish ending last year

[Yankees' #1 Fan]

they have one of the best teams in baseball and they are all young, what the fuck are you smoking?

[Jfk1117]

Im not saying the Indians are terrible, but they didnt improve themseleves this offseason. DId they make the playoff last year? Yea didn't think so. The AL is not easy to make it in and they needed to pick up players. Trust me I want to see em win more than anybody but they just dont sign any big namers. they need just one.

[Doug]

crisp has only played 30 more games at LF than CF

[NetNerdsRevenge]

It doesnt matter what someone regards somebody as. The tribe has a prospect right now, Garko who they regard very highly and has had interest from teams and the man will be lucky to be on the roster. You have to prove yourself through a 162 game season not by word of mouth. If we get Michaels Ill be pleased, but you can't seriosuly say Devanon is the real deal. Im just frustarted with the tribes lack of closing deals and keeping players. As stated earlier Coco is a fan favorite and to me is the most consistant player on our team. The tribe still lacks a righthanded power hitter and a right fielder. Were stuck once again with Casey Blake in right and Broussard at 1st. Why not just get Michaels and be stuck with only one spot to fill. Annoyed as you were by my post, the Indians did not have a good offseason. They kept their offense, lost pitching. I guess our best hope is that we learned from our hellish ending last year
Every prospect is valued on stats and word of mouth from scouts. Marte is a better prospect than any player on the Indians were at his point. His AAA numbers are very close the Chippers, and oh, he's that right handed power hitter you want. Davanon is not a bad 4th/ OF. Just before last year he had an OPS of .790, and the year before that, .805. And what is this about not making the playoffs? You had an amazing run at the end last year. Youre only going to get better.

If you want Michaels they're going to have to give up pitching, which they will need to replace. The Red Sox have the pitching they need to replace what they lost, and we also have the RHPH you want. No one else on the Indians who they would consider trading would bring back the kind of value they would get in this deal. This is a good trade for them. Marte is going to be good, watch.

[bigmike]

Every prospect is valued on stats and word of mouth from scouts. Marte is a better prospect than any player on the Indians were at his point. His AAA numbers are very close the Chippers, and oh, he's that right handed power hitter you want. Davanon is not a bad 4th/ OF. Just before last year he had an OPS of .790, and the year before that, .805. And what is this about not making the playoffs? You had an amazing run at the end last year. Youre only going to get better.

If you want Michaels they're going to have to give up pitching, which they will need to replace. The Red Sox have the pitching they need to replace what they lost, and we also have the RHPH you want. No one else on the Indians who they would consider trading would bring back the kind of value they would get in this deal. This is a good trade for them. Marte is going to be good, watch.

i was going to say, a team as young as cleveland, having as good of a second half as they did, do they really have to add much considering how much the kids will grow and learn and get better? it's not a veteran line up where everyone's reached their potential, kids on cleveland will get better and better, i think.

and it's still a horrible deal to trade Marte. You don't trade him. Or Mota. and definitely not for just crisp if you can get michael's for less.

although, this is coming from someone who should be excited that their team picked up Todd Jones. (fucking tigers.)

[NetNerdsRevenge]

Well I think what it really comes down too is that the Sox have pitching to spare, and they need a CF now. Crisp is the best young, cheap, but proven talent around. By the time Marte actually becomes Marte, Crisp will be on the end of his contract and the Sox will have seen the value of their trade (they can then re-sign Crisp). Also, by that time, I think its pretty safe to say the Sox will have some sort of right handed power hitter whose name is not Manny. It seems as if our youth movement, is a proven talent youth movement. We have needs, they have needs, they are met. I just hope this isn't Marte + Mota for Crisp. That would be unbalanced.

[bigmike]

Well I think what it really comes down too is that the Sox have pitching to spare, and they need a CF now. Crisp is the best young, cheap, but proven talent around. By the time Marte actually becomes Marte, Crisp will be on the end of his contract and the Sox will have seen the value of their trade (they can then re-sign Crisp). Also, by that time, I think its pretty safe to say the Sox will have some sort of right handed power hitter whose name is not Manny. It seems as if our youth movement, is a proven talent youth movement. We have needs, they have needs, they are met. I just hope this isn't Marte + Mota for Crisp. That would be unbalanced.

i don't think you trade for just crisp alone, unless it's straight up. like marte for crisp. something like that.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

There has been 6 man trade rumors, three team trade rumors, and such. Its hard to keep up with it, but I think itll come down to Mota and Marte for Crisp and a low-level prospect. We'll sign shit head Gonzalez, win 93 games, and make the playoffs. Marte will hit 400 HR's, about half with the Indians, and then he will get some huge contract some where else.

Michaels for some reason is just not getting much value. I wonder what both, Cleveland, Boston, and Philly see that we dont...