NBA Midseason MVP Poll

[Scott Weber]

Who's the MVP halfway through the NBA season?

Elton Brand: Clippers, 24-16
PPG 24.7
RPG 10.60
APG 2.5
FG% .524
FT% .765
Blocks: 2.6

Steve Nash - Phoenix, 28-15
PPG 19.1
RPG 4.40
APG 11.6
FG% .477
3PT% .428
FT% .924

Chauncey Billups - Pistons, 36-5
PPG 19.5
RPG 3.20
APG 8.6
FG% .433
3pt% .438
FT% .923

Lebron James - Cleveland, 24-17
PPG 30.9
RPG 6.80
APG 6.3
FG% .491
FT% .740
SPG: 1.63

Kobe Bryant - Lakers, 23-19
PPG 35.8
RPG 5.60
APG 4.4
FG% .449
FT% .839

[somethingyellow]

nash :)

[Johnny_G]

Take away the 81, Kobe is still the MVP at midseason.

[somethingyellow]

Take away the 81, Kobe is still the MVP at midseason.how so? i still don't feel he is the most valuable player

[Johnny_G]

how so?

For starters he's averaging 36 a game, which hasn't been done in nearly 2 decades. And Kobe is the Most Valuable Player to his team than anyone else in the league. Take Kobe off the Lakers and they're as bad as the Hawks. He's the best player in the league, and hes about to singlehandedly carry a poor basketball team into the postseason.

[G-Unit]

duke love, elton brand

[Johnny_G]

Also, how can Iverson not be on the list? The man's having the best season of his career and consistently domininates night in and night out.

[Drew Beringer]

I hate him, but gotta say Kobe, just because he is the Lakers.

[somethingyellow]

For starters he's averaging 36 a game, which hasn't been done in nearly 2 decades. And Kobe is the Most Valuable Player to his team than anyone else in the league. Take Kobe off the Lakers and they're as bad as the Hawks. He's the best player in the league, and hes about to singlehandedly carry a poor basketball team into the postseason. Take Nash off this years suns team they would be the same way. The reason i would not give it to bryant is because he doesn't make any of his teammates better at all. With Amare hurt and having joe johnson and quintin richardson leave the suns were expected to be in bad shape. Nash has led them to a 28-15 record and 1st place in the pacific

[Brownpants06]

I said nash, but thats mostly because im bias. I think Brand or Nash will get it this year. Brand has been solid.

[Johnny_G]

Take Nash off this years suns team they would be the same way. The reason i would not give it to bryant is because he doesn't make any of his teammates better at all. With Amare hurt and having joe johnson and quintin richardson leave the suns were expected to be in bad shape. Nash has led them to a 28-15 record and 1st place in the pacific

Nash does a lot for Phoenix, no doubt about it, but you can't win MVP in the league averaging under 20.

[somethingyellow]

Nash does a lot for Phoenix, no doubt about it, but you can't win MVP in the league averaging under 20.he did it last year, its the most VALUABE player award. Why couldn't you?

[Brownpants06]

Nash does a lot for Phoenix, no doubt about it, but you can't win MVP in the league averaging under 20.


he did last year

[Scott Weber]

nash :)
Yeah, I vote Nash too. He's having an even better year than last year, and he's doing it without Amare Stoudamire to pass to all the time. Most people thought the Suns wouldn't even make the playoffs this year with the loss of Q Rich and others, and with Amare's injury - he's proved them all wrong.

[Scott Weber]

Nash does a lot for Phoenix, no doubt about it, but you can't win MVP in the league averaging under 20.
Hahahaha, Nash won the MVP award last year averaging 15.5 points a game. That made me laugh SO hard.

[Johnny_G]

Hahahaha, Nash won the MVP award last year averaging 15.5 points a game. That made me laugh SO hard.

Wow. I love how everyone is quick to flip out because I misworded my statement. In my OPINION, I don't think an NBA player should win the NBA averaging under 20 a game. Nash winning averaging 15.5 last year was ridiculous in my OPINION.

[somethingyellow]

Wow. I love how everyone is quick to flip out because I misworded my statement. In my OPINION, I don't think an NBA player should win the NBA averaging under 20 a game. Nash winning averaging 15.5 last year was ridiculous in my OPINION.Why??? The award isnt given for scoring points. It is given to who is the most valuable player to their team. Nash proved last year that you do not have to lead your team in scoring or even score a lot to be the most valuable player

[Scott Weber]

Wow. I love how everyone is quick to flip out because I misworded my statement. In my OPINION, I don't think an NBA player should win the NBA averaging under 20 a game. Nash winning averaging 15.5 last year was ridiculous in my OPINION.
Haha, why? I'd LOVE to hear this argument. Nobody was more important to their team than Steve Nash last year. Who cares if he only averaged 15.5 a game, considering how many other points he created for his teammates.

*cracks open a beer and leans back*

[Johnny_G]

Why??? The award isnt given for scoring points. It is given to who is the most valuable player to their team. Nash proved last year that you do not have to lead your team in scoring or even score a lot to be the most valuable player

According to the voters, yea he won the award. I take nothing away from Nash either, he's actually one of my favorite players in the league, but to me he's not an MVP.

[brand new hater]

I'd go with Brand or kobe.. because they are really the main reason either of their teams are doing well... damnit that goes for nash too... but... kobe and elton are kind of flying solo, carrying the team... I really like billups because he's been a great floor general this year.. I don't know who i'd pick.... carson palmer anyone?

[still_life]

Kobe

[somethingyellow]

According to the voters, yea he won the award. I take nothing away from Nash either, he's actually one of my favorite players in the league, but to me he's not an MVP.what does an MVP have to do besides score over 20 points?

[Johnny_G]

what does an MVP have to do besides score over 20 points?

Be the clearcut best player on his team for starters. Who was the guy to guard on the Suns? Nash? Amare? Marion? I mean Amare averaged 26 and 10. Marion 19 and 11. That's three triple double guys on one team. I think this year more than last Nash deserves a look for MVP. Unfortunately, Kobe is just ridiculous and will win the award, no matter how much of an argument you want to make for Nash or anyone else.

[itsjdiggity]

Without a doubt, Steve Nash or Nick Collison

[somethingyellow]

Be the clearcut best player on his team for starters. Who was the guy to guard on the Suns? Nash? Amare? Marion? I mean Amare averaged 26 and 10. Marion 19 and 11. That's three triple double guys on one team. I think this year more than last Nash deserves a look for MVP. Unfortunately, Kobe is just ridiculous and will win the award, no matter how much of an argument you want to make for Nash or anyone else.I do not expect nash to win but i honestly think he deserves it again and is having an even better year then last year.

[Scott Weber]

Be the clearcut best player on his team for starters. Who was the guy to guard on the Suns? Nash? Amare? Marion? I mean Amare averaged 26 and 10. Marion 19 and 11. That's three triple double guys on one team. I think this year more than last Nash deserves a look for MVP. Unfortunately, Kobe is just ridiculous and will win the award, no matter how much of an argument you want to make for Nash or anyone else.
But Amare wouldn't be much at all without Nash, just another athletic jumper (Chris Bosh?). He has very limited range, and he's an insane jumper in the lane, but Nash is the one who got him all those shots. Nash drives and dishes better than anybody in the league, and if I'm playing the Suns, I'd be worried about Nash first and foremost - he IS the best player on that team, hands down. The guy is averaging 19 points a game WITH 11 assists! He could easily score 26 a game if he wanted to, but he creates better shots for his teammates. Nash is the sole reason the Suns are even above .500 this year.

[somethingyellow]

But Amare wouldn't be much at all without Nash, just another athletic jumper (Chris Bosh?). He has very limited range, and he's an insane jumper in the lane, but Nash is the one who got him all those shots. Nash drives and dishes better than anybody in the league, and if I'm playing the Suns, I'd be worried about Nash first and foremost - he IS the best player on that team, hands down. The guy is averaging 19 points a game WITH 11 assists! He could easily score 26 a game if he wanted to, but he creates better shots for his teammates. Nash is the sole reason the Suns are even above .500 this year.exactly, then to add to that they showed amare's stats last year when nash wasn't playing and all his scoring stats were down including a huge differences in field goal percentage

[Scott Weber]

exactly, then to add to that they showed amare's stats last year when nash wasn't playing and all his scoring stats were down including a huge differences in field goal percentage
truth.

[Johnny_G]

But Amare wouldn't be much at all without Nash, just another athletic jumper (Chris Bosh?). He has very limited range, and he's an insane jumper in the lane, but Nash is the one who got him all those shots. Nash drives and dishes better than anybody in the league, and if I'm playing the Suns, I'd be worried about Nash first and foremost - he IS the best player on that team, hands down. The guy is averaging 19 points a game WITH 11 assists! He could easily score 26 a game if he wanted to, but he creates better shots for his teammates. Nash is the sole reason the Suns are even above .500 this year.

This year he is, last year I'm not so sure. He fit perfectly onto that team because of the atheletes and shooters they had. It's easy to rack up assists when you got guys who find cotton consistently. He's also a mediocre defender at best. Sure, hes a wonderful PG and passer of the ball, but does that really make him the most valuable player in the league? Especially since the lack of defense gives the Suns no championship threat whatsoever.

[Ravenna]

how about giving the mvp to the entire starting 5 of the pistons

[Johnny_G]

how about giving the mvp to the entire starting 5 of the pistons

Only in a perfect world.

[somethingyellow]

This year he is, last year I'm not so sure. He fit perfectly onto that team because of the atheletes and shooters they had. It's easy to rack up assists when you got guys who find cotton consistently. He's also a mediocre defender at best. Sure, hes a wonderful PG and passer of the ball, but does that really make him the most valuable player in the league? Especially since the lack of defense gives the Suns no championship threat whatsoever.The suns were a COMPLETELY different team without nash last year. The point is that nash made everybody around him better along with the team, which made him the most valuable. He led that team to the best record in basketball when the year before they didnt even make the playoffs. Winng a championship doesn't have anything to do with most valuable since the award is based on regular season and is given before the finals even start. Plus if you really think that then you better not vote kobe because the lakers are nowhere near an nba champion

[Johnny_G]

The suns were a COMPLETELY different team without nash last year. The point is that nash made everybody around him better along with the team, which made him the most valuable. He led that team to the best record in basketball when the year before they didnt even make the playoffs.

They play a great brand of regular season ball. It's a shame he'll never win a championship.

[somethingyellow]

They play a great brand of regular season ball. It's a shame he'll never win a championship. And you know this because.....

[fromwithin]

Brand is finally coming into his own this year, as I have been hoping ever since he came into the league. My vote is for Nash, the fact that theyre without Amare and knew going into the season they wouldnt have him, Nash stepped it up individually and in team-based play.

Don't even for one second tell me Kobe is the MVP. I will not ever one day give the MVP to a fucking ballhog, I dont care if what he did hasnt been done in 80 years, its not right. A true MVP makes his whole team better around him, not only his individual play.

[Johnny_G]

And you know this because.....

I predict the future.

[radiofriendly]

a case should at least be made for Dirk. ridiculously consistent. team leader. incredible stat lines, and he's seven foot. nearly unguardable and even starting to play some great defense. just a little Dallas love

otherwise my vote goes to Nash, with Kobe at a near tie. Nash does make his team better, but don't pretend like you'd take Nash over Kobe on your NBA team. it's just silly. Kobe does his thing without a point guard. he's a better player in offensive production, and Nash really doesn't defend.

[Johnny_G]

a case should at least be made for Dirk. ridiculously consistent. team leader. incredible stat lines, and he's seven foot. nearly unguardable and even starting to play some great defense. just a little Dallas love

otherwise my vote goes to Nash, with Kobe at a near tie. Nash does make his team better, but don't pretend like you'd take Nash over Kobe on your NBA team. it's just silly. Kobe does his thing without a point guard. he's a better player in offensive production, and Nash really doesn't defend.

You made a case for Kobe, but say you'd vote Nash...

[somethingyellow]

a case should at least be made for Dirk. ridiculously consistent. team leader. incredible stat lines, and he's seven foot. nearly unguardable and even starting to play some great defense. just a little Dallas love

otherwise my vote goes to Nash, with Kobe at a near tie. Nash does make his team better, but don't pretend like you'd take Nash over Kobe on your NBA team. it's just silly. Kobe does his thing without a point guard. he's a better player in offensive production, and Nash really doesn't defend. The suns took nash over kobe that off season when they had enough money to go after kobe. For that team yes i would rather have nash

[radiofriendly]

You made a case for Kobe, but say you'd vote Nash...

i said a near tie. Nash was made for the Suns. Nash deserved every bit of his award last year for turning the franchise around. and he's putting up better better numbers on incomplete team that was destined for .500. it's unreal. and he's a catalyst. huge components that Kobe doesn't quite match, but what Kobe has done individually has saved a team from ruin. when it boils down to it, it's tough, but i choose Nash.

[radiofriendly]

The suns took nash over kobe that off season when they had enough money to go after kobe. For that team yes i would rather have nash

nobody was taking Kobe away from LA. The Suns needed a point guard. they knew NAsh would thrive under the Suns' offensive technique(i do agree with you there). mind you, nash's game was far from MVP worthy in Dallas. Kobe can take his game anywhere with any kind of offensive help and thrive.

[bigmike]

i voted chauncey, for obvious, biased reasons.

[somethingyellow]

nobody was taking Kobe away from LA. The Suns needed a point guard. they knew NAsh would thrive under the Suns' offensive technique(i do agree with you there). mind you, nash's game was far from MVP worthy in Dallas. Kobe can take his game anywhere with any kind of offensive help and thrive.ya i didnt expect the suns to get him that year, but my point was the suns had enough money to try and get kobe but didnt make a push for him cuz they thought nash would help the team more

[Split2nd]

Don't even for one second tell me Kobe is the MVP. I will not ever one day give the MVP to a fucking ballhog, I dont care if what he did hasnt been done in 80 years, its not right. A true MVP makes his whole team better around him, not only his individual play.

Wow. Please, tell me, do you think that Michael Jordan or Wilt Chamberlain were "fucking ballhogs?" Because what Kobe is doing right now is exactly what each of them did in their respective times. You're letting your hatred for Kobe damage your ability to appreciate just how fucking great he is. Nash makes his teammates better because he's a point guard. His job is to pass the ball. Kobe's job in the triangle offense is a pure scorer. Lamar is the initiator. It's not Kobe's job to constantly look to set up his teammates like it is Nash's. I'd like to see anyone who actually wants Kobe to give the ball up to let these CBA players shoot.

Kobe is the hands down MVP... talk to me when Steve Nash isn't a complete matador on Defense. Kobe dominates on both ends of the floor, whereas Nash is a great point guard. Don't get me wrong, I love Nash, one of my favorite players in the game, but what Kobe is doing is unbelieveable. This roster is extremely shitty an inconsistent. How this team is above .500 is beyond me. There is NO second scoring option. Lamar Odom will have a 20 point night, followed by a 1-8 6 points game. He'd be great if the team had someone else to score besides Kobe. Smush, Mihm, Kwame all decide to play decent basketball on various nights. Kobe TRIES to involve his teammates more all the time, but they're just terrible, and he takes things into his own hands to try to win ballgames. (i.e. Toronto game)

Put Steve Nash on this piece of shit roster and watch him struggle to win 30 games. Put Kobe on the Suns and watch them go to the WCF.

[FondestMemory]

i wanna go lebron just because of my biased opinion.

but i'd have to go chauncey. as much as i hate the pistons, they're fucking incredible this year.

[Scott Weber]

I don't see why Chauncey has so many votes. Great player yes, but there's so many parts to that Detroit team that make them awesome. He's not nearly as integral to his team's success as Nash was to Phoenix last year.

[somethingyellow]

I don't see why Chauncey has so many votes. Great player yes, but there's so many parts to that Detroit team that make them awesome. He's not nearly as integral to his team's success as Nash was to Phoenix last year.neither do I. the pistons without billups are still a playoff team, the suns without nash are nowhere close

[itsjdiggity]

i think, when marbury was in there, they absolutely sucked

but with nash in there, the offense flows perfectly no matter who is on the court

[bigmike]

i voted chauncey, for obvious, biased reasons.

though i did vote for chauncey, since i'm from michigan, i do have to say that no pistons player should really win an individual award. with the one exception being ben wallace for defensive player of the year. it's the only one that's mildly valid.

[Scott Weber]

though i did vote for chauncey, since i'm from michigan, i do have to say that no pistons player should really win an individual award. with the one exception being ben wallace for defensive player of the year. it's the only one that's mildly valid.
Nobody wins DPOY besides Marcus Camby this year. Sorry.

[bigmike]

Nobody wins DPOY besides Marcus Camby this year. Sorry.

ahh, good call, good call.
yeah, i was just saying if you wanted to make a case for a piston to win an individual award, it'd be ben for DPOY. but now that you mention camby, he is a good pick.

which is fine. I'd trade all the individual accolades for another title.

[somethingyellow]

good thread scott ;)

[Scott Weber]

ahh, good call, good call.
yeah, i was just saying if you wanted to make a case for a piston to win an individual award, it'd be ben for DPOY. but now that you mention camby, he is a good pick.

which is fine. I'd trade all the individual accolades for another title.
I hate Detroit.

I loathe Tayshaun Prince more than any other player in the league.

[bigmike]

I hate Detroit.

I loathe Tayshaun Prince more than any other player in the league.

haha. that's cool. tayshaun is a goofy looking kid.

[xearlynovemberx]

billups

[itsjdiggity]

I hate Detroit.

I loathe Tayshaun Prince more than any other player in the league.

what's wrong with tayshaun?

[Scott Weber]

haha. that's cool. tayshaun is a goofy looking kid.
Plus...he's from Kentucky.

[Scott Weber]

billups
Wtf are you talking about?

[Scott Weber]

what's wrong with tayshaun?
I hate his game, he's ugly as hell, he's got an awkward shot, and he just looks so gangly out on the court. He's also from Kentucky, which is probably my most hated college basketball program.

[itsjdiggity]

I hate his game, he's ugly as hell, he's got an awkward shot, and he just looks so gangly out on the court. He's also from Kentucky, which is probably my most hated college basketball program.

haha...gangly

Tayshaun makes dunks and alley-oops look cool because he's so gangly

[itsjdiggity]

http://youtube.com/w/Tayshaun-Prince-mix?v=leJXxkRVU3Y&search=tayshaun%20prince

look at that dunk against the bobcats

[bigmike]

I hate his game, he's ugly as hell, he's got an awkward shot, and he just looks so gangly out on the court. He's also from Kentucky, which is probably my most hated college basketball program.

he is gangly, ugly, has an awkward shot and is from god damn kentucky. however, he's effective and gets the most out his scrawny, awkward body. he's a stellar defensive player because of his reach and arm length, and makes the shots he needs to, despite the bad looking release. I'm glad he's here.

besides, how can you hate him after that block he put on reggie miller in the playoffs a couple years ago? That was insane.

[itsjdiggity]

i went to the rookie game when it was here in los angeles, and tayshaun prince did a under the legs dunk...that shit was fucking awesome

[Scott Weber]

he is gangly, ugly, has an awkward shot and is from god damn kentucky. however, he's effective and gets the most out his scrawny, awkward body. he's a stellar defensive player because of his reach and arm length, and makes the shots he needs to, despite the bad looking release. I'm glad he's here.

besides, how can you hate him after that block he put on reggie miller in the playoffs a couple years ago? That was insane.
Possibly because Reggie Miller is one of my favorite players of all time

[bigmike]

Possibly because Reggie Miller is one of my favorite players of all time

hm, yeah, well that would damper the greatness of that block.

[Caleb Cattivera]

kobe just needs someone to run with.

he doesnt need to make anyone better right now. besides odom that teams worthless, he needs to take that team on his back.

[itsjdiggity]

kobe just needs someone to run with.

he doesnt need to make anyone better right now. besides odom that teams worthless, he needs to take that team on his back.

what do you think kobe would be more effective with? a shawn marion/rashard lewis type player or a elton brand/jermaine o'neal type?

[xearlynovemberx]

Wtf are you talking about?

unless lebron leads the cavs to the playoffs i dont see him winning mvp...same with brand
the cavs always choke and the clippers...well they are the clippers
nash is good no doubt about that top 10 player in the leauge but the way the pistons are winning and the way billups is play is ridiclous unless kobe keeps up this scoring frenzy hes on i dont really see him winning it either

[xearlynovemberx]

what do you think kobe would be more effective with? a shawn marion/rashard lewis type player or a elton brand/jermaine o'neal type?

thats a good question to be honest i see o neal complimenting kobe the best because he can throw it inside to him for some easy lay ups dunks and what not elton brand also but i dont see marion or lewis type really complimenting kobe well

[iihungrieii]

it was a tough choice between kobe and nash but i had to go with kobe because of the team around him

[itsjdiggity]

it was a tough choice between kobe and nash but i had to go with kobe because of the team around him

?

Phoenix is 2nd seed without Amare. Nash has made James Jones, Eddie House, and Boris Diaw look terrific.

[still_life]

?

Phoenix is 2nd seed without Amare. Nash has made James Jones, Eddie House, and Boris Diaw look terrific.

I think Kobe would kill to have a player like Marion on his team right now.

[iihungrieii]

kobe is single-handedly carrying the team to the playoffs

[mikeford]

delonte west.

at least he's my MVP

[iihungrieii]

im a noob, can somebody teach me how to quote

[ActorInThisPlay]

forgot Iverson and Garnett. I know the t-wolves aren't doing that well but he is averaging about 25 ppg and 15 rpg i think. On the list though...let's see either Brand or Nash. I voted Brand cause i like the Clippers better but Nash is awesome as well.

[Doug]

delonte west.

at least he's my MVP

2nded

[Doug]

or ricky davis

[itsjdiggity]

kobe is single-handedly carrying the team to the playoffs

You could say the same thing about Iverson.

[Spicoli hey bud]

forgot Iverson and Garnett. I know the t-wolves aren't doing that well but he is averaging about 25 ppg and 15 rpg i think. .
haha sorry. 22 pts and 11 boards? Good, but not 25 and 15.

[ActorInThisPlay]

You could say the same thing about Iverson.

yeah and Iverson is about 8 inches shorter then Kobe....hahah, not that that has anything to do with anything.

[Caleb Cattivera]

You could say the same thing about Iverson.

single handed...no...iverson has chris webber to thank for alot of that teams success too. he's averaging 20 and 10 this year, and he's been healthy. he's got a good low post presence in dalembert and another complimentary player in AI4.

lamar odom is putting up 14 and 9, which isnt TOO bad...but it's no 20 and 10. they dont have a good post player...kobe IS the lakers and he carries that team by himself. this is my championship laker taem.

brevin knight
kobe bryant
elton brand
boris diaw
jamaal magloire

i think that team could easily win the nba championship.

[mcfly21]

you have to pick the best player on the best team in the league


as much as i want lbj to win it, he'll have to wait one more year

[ILoveTrees]

Without Kobe Bryant the Lakers would be the ones giving up 81 points to any person that they played. Michael Olowakandi could score 81 on the Lakers minus Kobe. For all you Clippers/Twolves fans you know how sad that would be!

[mcfly21]

Without Kobe Bryant the Lakers would be the ones giving up 81 points to any person that they played. Michael Olowakandi could score 81 on the Lakers minus Kobe. For all you Clippers/Twolves fans you know how sad that would be!

better add celtic fans to that too

[Scott Weber]

im a noob, can somebody teach me how to quote
you click the quote button underneath somebody's post.

[splitsecond]

Take Nash off this years suns team they would be the same way. The reason i would not give it to bryant is because he doesn't make any of his teammates better at all. With Amare hurt and having joe johnson and quintin richardson leave the suns were expected to be in bad shape. Nash has led them to a 28-15 record and 1st place in the pacific

Word. Nash does amazing things in Phx. I was so worried they were going to be horrible this year, bit he has helped turn Diaw and the rest of the team into great players. I dont care how many points Kobe scores, you can't say that about him.

[ActorInThisPlay]

haha sorry. 22 pts and 11 boards? Good, but not 25 and 15.
haha my bad...i thought i saw the 25 15 stats on a T-wolves game. I must've been confused with it. It must've been for something else.

[Split2nd]

Word. Nash does amazing things in Phx. I was so worried they were going to be horrible this year, bit he has helped turn Diaw and the rest of the team into great players. I dont care how many points Kobe scores, you can't say that about him.

Kobe is not a PG.... his job isn't to make his teammates better or set them up. If Kobe had Shawn Marion on his team, they'd be winning the Pacific. If Kobe had the Suns Roster, they'd be going to the WCF. You can't say the same about Nash on the Lakers.

And, Kobe actually plays, you know, DEFENSE (some of the best in the league might I add [THIS ONES DIRECTED TO YOU RAY ALLEN]: something Nash doesn't.

I like Ray Allen's game, but I gotta hate him more than Tayshaun. He's just a whiny little bitch who's jealous of Kobe and his accomplishments. Vince Carter is pretty idiotic too. He says Kobe's game might teach kids the wrong thing... how about not playing 100% just to get yourself traded, and then whine like a bitch to get traded Vince? You don't think that might teach Kids bad things? Idiot.

[Scott Weber]

Kobe is an incredibly overrated defender, and there are far, far worse defenders in the league than Nash and Ray Allen. Neither are great, but they aren't terrible.

[Brownpants06]

Hah, i seriously doubt kobe will get mvp, sure hes having a great scoring year, but the lakers are almost out of playoff contention.

The suns have a lot better chance of becoming a championship team than the lakers are right now, clearly.

Kobe is definetly overrated and so are the lakers, while i agree hes a great player, hes not league MVP.

[ActorInThisPlay]

Kobe is not a PG.... his job isn't to make his teammates better or set them up. If Kobe had Shawn Marion on his team, they'd be winning the Pacific. If Kobe had the Suns Roster, they'd be going to the WCF. You can't say the same about Nash on the Lakers.

And, Kobe actually plays, you know, DEFENSE (some of the best in the league might I add [THIS ONES DIRECTED TO YOU RAY ALLEN]: something Nash doesn't.

I like Ray Allen's game, but I gotta hate him more than Tayshaun. He's just a whiny little bitch who's jealous of Kobe and his accomplishments. Vince Carter is pretty idiotic too. He says Kobe's game might teach kids the wrong thing... how about not playing 100% just to get yourself traded, and then whine like a bitch to get traded Vince? You don't think that might teach Kids bad things? Idiot.
I don't understand but Odom is not a bad player. If Kobe learned how to utilize him more, they would be better. Odom wasn't bad at all on Miami.

[somethingyellow]

this is my championship laker taem.

brevin knight
kobe bryant
elton brand
boris diaw
jamaal magloire

i think that team could easily win the nba championship. It is hard to say since the bench is not mentioned. But since your going off of starters alone to say they would easily win the championship is a very bold statement. That starting line up wouldnt even be the best in basketball. The pistons, spurs, suns (with a healthy amare) would all still have better starting line-ups

[AshesAshes]

I vote for Chauncey the guy is playing g reat right now.

[somethingyellow]

Kobe is not a PG.... his job isn't to make his teammates better or set them up. Are you aware that you do not have to be a point guard to make your teammates better?

[Scott Weber]

Hah, i seriously doubt kobe will get mvp, sure hes having a great scoring year, but the lakers are almost out of playoff contention.
.
No they're not, they have the 7th seed in the west right now.

[Scott Weber]

It is hard to say since the bench is not mentioned. But since your going off of starters alone to say they would easily win the championship is a very bold statement. That starting line up wouldnt even be the best in basketball. The pistons, spurs, suns (with a healthy amare) would all still have better starting line-ups
It's not about the best though, I think that's a perfect lineup for Kobe...and unselfish, tough PG like Brevin Knight, a banger like Brand in the middle, an unselfish big man like Maagliore, etc...it would mesh well.

[ActorInThisPlay]

Kobe is not a PG.... his job isn't to make his teammates better or set them up. If Kobe had Shawn Marion on his team, they'd be winning the Pacific. If Kobe had the Suns Roster, they'd be going to the WCF. You can't say the same about Nash on the Lakers.

And, Kobe actually plays, you know, DEFENSE (some of the best in the league might I add [THIS ONES DIRECTED TO YOU RAY ALLEN]: something Nash doesn't.

I like Ray Allen's game, but I gotta hate him more than Tayshaun. He's just a whiny little bitch who's jealous of Kobe and his accomplishments. Vince Carter is pretty idiotic too. He says Kobe's game might teach kids the wrong thing... how about not playing 100% just to get yourself traded, and then whine like a bitch to get traded Vince? You don't think that might teach Kids bad things? Idiot.
Shaq made Kobe better when he was on the Lakers and he's not a point guard.

[Brownpants06]

No they're not, they have the 7th seed in the west right now.


Yea, and the the seed is only 2.5 back. One streak of losses or a boost in performance could put them out.

[somethingyellow]

It's not about the best though, I think that's a perfect lineup for Kobe...and unselfish, tough PG like Brevin Knight, a banger like Brand in the middle, an unselfish big man like Maagliore, etc...it would mesh well. That wasn't completely my point. Caleb said that team would easily win. When i think of team that would easily win, they would have to put one hell of a line up out there, that no other team would have much of a chance beating. With that team i just do not see it. I would have a hard time finding that team beating a team like the pistons

[AshesAshes]

Ak-47 should get defensive player of the year.

[AshesAshes]

That wasn't completely my point. Caleb said that team would easily win. When i think of team that would easily win, they would have to put one hell of a line up out there, that no other team would have much of a chance beating. With that team i just do not see it. I would have a hard time finding that team beating a team like the pistons
The jazz swept the pistons.:D

[AshesAshes]

Hah, i seriously doubt kobe will get mvp, sure hes having a great scoring year, but the lakers are almost out of playoff contention.

The suns have a lot better chance of becoming a championship team than the lakers are right now, clearly.

Kobe is definetly overrated and so are the lakers, while i agree hes a great player, hes not league MVP.
How is Kobe overrated??That guy has his team on his back,without Kobe no way that team would be 23-19 right now.Im not a big fan of the guy but he is having a great season.

[Split2nd]

Shaq made Kobe better when he was on the Lakers and he's not a point guard.

Yes, I'm aware that you don't have to be a PG to make your teammates better. But Kobe's job in the Triangle Offense is easy: score the ball. Lamar takes the initiator role, he's the one who sets up all his teammates. Kobe tries to set his teammates up off of double teams, but there are no good shooters on the team besides Brian Cook, who gets played sparingly. Kobe's job is to score, and he does just that. When he's in scoring mode, it gives the team the best possible chance of winning. Especially if he's shooting 50% like he has been the past few weeks. He's gone through a phase of trying to be Nash-like in setting up his teammates. IF he had any kind of supporting cast whatsoever, they'd be a good team.

Lamar doesn't fit with Kobe, he's not an aggressive scorer. If he were the #1 option on a team, he'd try to score more, but that's not the case. He doesn't know how to adjust to scoring as a 2nd option. He needs the ball in his hand to be effective. Put a Ray Allen or someone else that can thrive scoring off the ball and the team would be great.

Nash and Kobe are two COMPLETELY different players, so it's very hard to compare them. Nash is a pure passer, whereas Kobe is a scorer.

And someone please explain to me how Kobe is overrated. I'd love to hear it.

(I'm not a blind homer, just some things said about Kobe because of the hatred for him is amazingly offbase)

[clevernapkins]

billups deserves it, but let's be honest, the pistons don't need any mvps. they're the first team in a while that has consistently shown that having a balanced, teamwork based lineup is what wins games. 5 losses is pretty hard to argue with

[ActorInThisPlay]

Yes, I'm aware that you don't have to be a PG to make your teammates better. But Kobe's job in the Triangle Offense is easy: score the ball. Lamar takes the initiator role, he's the one who sets up all his teammates. Kobe tries to set his teammates up off of double teams, but there are no good shooters on the team besides Brian Cook, who gets played sparingly. Kobe's job is to score, and he does just that. When he's in scoring mode, it gives the team the best possible chance of winning. Especially if he's shooting 50% like he has been the past few weeks. He's gone through a phase of trying to be Nash-like in setting up his teammates. IF he had any kind of supporting cast whatsoever, they'd be a good team.

Lamar doesn't fit with Kobe, he's not an aggressive scorer. If he were the #1 option on a team, he'd try to score more, but that's not the case. He doesn't know how to adjust to scoring as a 2nd option. He needs the ball in his hand to be effective. Put a Ray Allen or someone else that can thrive scoring off the ball and the team would be great.

Nash and Kobe are two COMPLETELY different players, so it's very hard to compare them. Nash is a pure passer, whereas Kobe is a scorer.

And someone please explain to me how Kobe is overrated. I'd love to hear it.

(I'm not a blind homer, just some things said about Kobe because of the hatred for him is amazingly offbase)
yeah which is why Kobe's FG% isn't even in the Top 50 in the league with below a 45% FG%. He also averages more shots per game, 1.4 more then Iverson in 2nd, then anyone else in the league so in essence he should have the most amount of points.

[itsjdiggity]

Kobe is not a PG.... his job isn't to make his teammates better or set them up. If Kobe had Shawn Marion on his team, they'd be winning the Pacific. If Kobe had the Suns Roster, they'd be going to the WCF. You can't say the same about Nash on the Lakers.

And, Kobe actually plays, you know, DEFENSE (some of the best in the league might I add [THIS ONES DIRECTED TO YOU RAY ALLEN]: something Nash doesn't.

I like Ray Allen's game, but I gotta hate him more than Tayshaun. He's just a whiny little bitch who's jealous of Kobe and his accomplishments. Vince Carter is pretty idiotic too. He says Kobe's game might teach kids the wrong thing... how about not playing 100% just to get yourself traded, and then whine like a bitch to get traded Vince? You don't think that might teach Kids bad things? Idiot.

Ray Allen's not a great defender, but he's not terrible. How is he jealous? If you saw the all star game, you would know that him and Kobe have just a friendly feud.

Ray Allen also owned Kobe last year by getting in his head throughout the season.

[Doug]

can i change my vote to lebron now?

[Brownpants06]

I think during the cleveland-pheonix game one of the announcers said it perfect,

"Theres a difference between the best player and the most valuable player. Kobe is the best player however Billups has been the most valuable"

While i disagree with his MVP choice, he had the right idea.

[Caleb Cattivera]

yeah which is why Kobe's FG% isn't even in the Top 50 in the league with below a 45% FG%. He also averages more shots per game, 1.4 more then Iverson in 2nd, then anyone else in the league so in essence he should have the most amount of points.

the first part of this is kind of a lame argument. true, he isn't in the top 50 in the leauge in percentage. BUT, there's not even 10 true guards in the top 50 in shooting percentage. alot of these players are power forwards and centers and spend alot of their time in the paint and around the basket. 15 of those players dont even attempt 10 shots per game.

also, in the post jordan era, only once has the person who's taken the most shots, led the leauge in scoring. that was last year with allen iverson.

[AshesAshes]

the first part of this is kind of a lame argument. true, he isn't in the top 50 in the leauge in percentage. BUT, there's not even 10 true guards in the top 50 in shooting percentage. alot of these players are power forwards and centers and spend alot of their time in the paint and around the basket. 15 of those players dont even attempt 10 shots per game.

also, in the post jordan era, only once has the person who's taken the most shots, led the leauge in scoring. that was last year with allen iverson.
Oh snap its Caleb!

[ActorInThisPlay]

the first part of this is kind of a lame argument. true, he isn't in the top 50 in the leauge in percentage. BUT, there's not even 10 true guards in the top 50 in shooting percentage. alot of these players are power forwards and centers and spend alot of their time in the paint and around the basket. 15 of those players dont even attempt 10 shots per game.

also, in the post jordan era, only once has the person who's taken the most shots, led the leauge in scoring. that was last year with allen iverson.
well Kobe is leading the league with the most shots and is leading the league in scoring.

Tony Parker
Rick Hamilton
LeBron James
Paul Pierce
Dwayne Wade
Steve Nash
Devin Harris
Mike Miller
Jameer Nelson
Jason Williams
Ricky Davis
Jason Terry
Joe Johnson
Carmelo Anthony
Allen Iverson
Jayson Richardson
Stephon Marbury

just to name a few ahead of Kobe that aren't C or PF and attempt more then 10 shots a game.

[Caleb Cattivera]

well Kobe is leading the league with the most shots and is leading the league in scoring.

Tony Parker
Rick Hamilton
LeBron James
Paul Pierce
Dwayne Wade
Steve Nash
Devin Harris
Mike Miller
Jameer Nelson
Jason Williams
Ricky Davis
Jason Terry
Joe Johnson
Carmelo Anthony
Allen Iverson
Jayson Richardson
Stephon Marbury

just to name a few ahead of Kobe that aren't C or PF and attempt more then 10 shots a game.

i know he's leading the leauge and takes the most shots. but you said in essence he should be anyways...this is only the second time in seven years it's happened...it doesnt always turn out that way.

also with fg% and spg...i didn't mean JUST C and PF...i said TRUE guard...someone who plays the guard position. not someone who is a forward...players in the forward position on that list are...mike miller, lebron james, paul pierce, and carmelo anthony. none of those players play the guard position. therefore, cancelling them out of this argument.

kobe is the best player in the nba right now. how he plays depends on the outcome of the game for the lakers.

[AshesAshes]

He has 31 already against the pistons thats impressive.

[Split2nd]

Ray Allen's not a great defender, but he's not terrible. How is he jealous? If you saw the all star game, you would know that him and Kobe have just a friendly feud.

Ray Allen also owned Kobe last year by getting in his head throughout the season.

Sorry, I meant to say TMac, not Ray Allen. And I didn't mean that Tmac was a terrible defender, I meant it because Kobe absolutely shuts down TMac on D.

[itsjdiggity]

Sorry, I meant to say TMac, not Ray Allen. And I didn't mean that Tmac was a terrible defender, I meant it because Kobe absolutely shuts down TMac on D.

T Mac had some good D on Dirk in the playoffs but his team always finds a way to fuck up

[Split2nd]

If TMac and Yao were healthy they'd be damn good.

It's actually kind of scary... it reminds me of the Spurs in the 90's, a great team with superstars who just weren't healthy that year, and they ended up with Duncan. Imagine TMac and Yao with a top 5 pick. Ouch.

[Talib Scottie]

Midseason MVP is going to an LA player for me.

[Johnny_G]

If TMac and Yao were healthy they'd be damn good.

It's actually kind of scary... it reminds me of the Spurs in the 90's, a great team with superstars who just weren't healthy that year, and they ended up with Duncan. Imagine TMac and Yao with a top 5 pick. Ouch.

TMac's an incredible waste of talent.

[ActorInThisPlay]

i know he's leading the leauge and takes the most shots. but you said in essence he should be anyways...this is only the second time in seven years it's happened...it doesnt always turn out that way.

also with fg% and spg...i didn't mean JUST C and PF...i said TRUE guard...someone who plays the guard position. not someone who is a forward...players in the forward position on that list are...mike miller, lebron james, paul pierce, and carmelo anthony. none of those players play the guard position. therefore, cancelling them out of this argument.

kobe is the best player in the nba right now. how he plays depends on the outcome of the game for the lakers.
still that is a lot of guards with a higher FG% then him. a lot of people think he has this great shot and all but his career FG% is barely over 45% which is nothing to brag about. MJ's was just under 50% for his entire career...

[Split2nd]

still that is a lot of guards with a higher FG% then him. a lot of people think he has this great shot and all but his career FG% is barely over 45% which is nothing to brag about. MJ's was just under 50% for his entire career...

FG% isn't an accurate stat. There are far more accurate ways of assessing players' efficiency (try Hollingers and whatnot). Kobe has absolutely NO ONE on this team, it's freaking pathetic. I get depressed just watching Kobe have to suffer through the incompetency he plays with. Lamar Odom is a waste, no basketball IQ.

Kobe is forced to shoot jumpshots because he has to play 40-45 minutes a game, and he'd crap out if he took it to the hoop everytime. Also, Defenses would easily collapse on him because there are no shooters on this team. He has no inside presense, no shooters, NO offensive compliments, he's basically doing everything on this team, do you really expect him to shoot 50%?

[ActorInThisPlay]

FG% isn't an accurate stat. There are far more accurate ways of assessing players' efficiency (try Hollingers and whatnot). Kobe has absolutely NO ONE on this team, it's freaking pathetic. I get depressed just watching Kobe have to suffer through the incompetency he plays with. Lamar Odom is a waste, no basketball IQ.

Kobe is forced to shoot jumpshots because he has to play 40-45 minutes a game, and he'd crap out if he took it to the hoop everytime. Also, Defenses would easily collapse on him because there are no shooters on this team. He has no inside presense, no shooters, NO offensive compliments, he's basically doing everything on this team, do you really expect him to shoot 50%?
Odom is not a bad player. He did pretty well on Miami and on the Clippers.

[itsjdiggity]

Lamar Odom really has no IQ but on any given night he could get a triple double

[itsjdiggity]

Odom is not a bad player. He did pretty well on Miami and on the Clippers.

http://www.marijuana-addiction.info/img/marijuana2.jpg

[Split2nd]

He's a very good rebounder, but his impact is seen far greater on the box score than on the court. The guy fills up the box score with meaningless assists, but fails to make a big impact on the court. I really hope he's traded before the deadline for someone who can consistently score.

[Brownpants06]

If TMac and Yao were healthy they'd be damn good.

It's actually kind of scary... it reminds me of the Spurs in the 90's, a great team with superstars who just weren't healthy that year, and they ended up with Duncan. Imagine TMac and Yao with a top 5 pick. Ouch.

The raptors had vince carter and Tmac for one season, it was wonderful.

[Caleb Cattivera]

rufio. earlier you said kobe's fg% was less than 45%...when it is .449

techinally...jordan isnt a career 50% shooter...he's .497

[ActorInThisPlay]

rufio. earlier you said kobe's fg% was less than 45%...when it is .449

techinally...jordan isnt a career 50% shooter...he's .497

.449 is less then 45% correct? yes. also here is what I wrote on the last page...i realize MJ isn't a career 50% shooter but Kobe is barely over 45%...that is a 5% difference and that is huge.

still that is a lot of guards with a higher FG% then him. a lot of people think he has this great shot and all but his career FG% is barely over 45% which is nothing to brag about. MJ's was just under 50% for his entire career...

[somethingyellow]

basketball debates are the best

[ActorInThisPlay]

basketball debates are the best
sports debates in general are the best...this is why I constantly come to the Sports forum over every other one now.

[bigmike]

sports debates in general are the best...this is why I constantly come to the Sports forum over every other one now.

Me too.

[Doug]

i never went to the other forums. they seem to kind of blow.

[radiofriendly]

ha! i got so wrapped up in the debate, i never voted.

[Caleb Cattivera]

yes i love arguing with rufio about kobe...and im not even a huge kobe fan, its something to argue!

[ImpulZe]

lmao only one vote for lebron, I vote for chauncy just based on the record

[radiofriendly]

lmao only one vote for lebron, I vote for chauncy just based on the record

yeah, i think when your having a career year, and you're the primary(if not the only) playmaker on the 37-5 Detroit Pistons, you get automatic MVP candidate rights. he's right up there with the rest. i wouldn't be upset if Billups won. he's having a knockout season.

[ActorInThisPlay]

yes i love arguing with rufio about kobe...and im not even a huge kobe fan, its something to argue!
yeah I can't stand Kobe and haven't been able to since day 1 he was on the Lakers. everyone around here was a Kobe fanboy until Shaq left and they weren't winning anymore, then everyone was like I hate Kobe and I never really liked him either...

oh and my name is Matt by the way, that way you don't have to call me Rufio...lol

[Doug]

yeah I can't stand Kobe and haven't been able to since day 1 he was on the Lakers. everyone around here was a Kobe fanboy until Shaq left and they weren't winning anymore, then everyone was like I hate Kobe and I never really liked him either...

oh and my name is Matt by the way, that way you don't have to call me Rufio...lol

nah, you'll always be rufio

[fluke182]

I'm rather late into this argument, but typically, I argue for the person who makes his team better than what they should be. Hypothetically, take that list and subtract that person from their team, and see where they are at. The only team from that list I would argue that wouldn't fall apart without him, is the Pistons with Billups. They would still likely be a great team. Second off, my criterion is, does he make the people around him better? I'm going to take away Kobe, because of the fact that his usage stats are just insane this year, it's surprising when I see a Lakers game and he does not have the ball, which is not necessarily a bad thing, however he really does not make anyone on his team a better player, and I will take away LBJ because of his failures in his team defense and because his apparant lack of need to include other players (Watch a Cavs game and count how many times he takes a long fade away instead of dishing to a wide open teammate...it's a lot).

For me, that leaves Brand and Nash. It's a tough one, because both guys are taking teams and making them significantly better than they should be, although neither is really putting up statistics that are far and away better than their norms. With Brand being a significantly greater deterrent on defense and the fact that he is on the Clippers and they are verging on "playoff team" status, I would love to choose Brand.

However, I will not. Steve Nash has taken a team that subtracted Quentin Richardson, Joe Johnson and Amare Stoudemire (So far), and replaced them essentially with James Jones, Boris Diaw-Riffiod, Raja Bell and Kurt Thomas. Not exactly the most threatening quartet, but Nash's direction of their offense has turned these previously middling pros into quality players, and in some cases, borderline stars (Gotta respect Boris and his 12, 6, 6). Watch the Suns, has there ever been a team with more easy baskets directly related to a single person. Even when he doesn't get the assist, it's his pass that sets it up. He plays it like chess, and it is absolutely ridiculous. Because of the fact that he kept the Suns as one of the best teams in the West, because he has made his team into an even better team than last year and because he's statistically fantastic too (Don't forget he's averaging nearly 20 pts. a game this year with 11 assists) he has to be the MVP.

[Caleb Cattivera]

yeah I can't stand Kobe and haven't been able to since day 1 he was on the Lakers. everyone around here was a Kobe fanboy until Shaq left and they weren't winning anymore, then everyone was like I hate Kobe and I never really liked him either...

oh and my name is Matt by the way, that way you don't have to call me Rufio...lol

hahaha ruuuffiiooo!

haha im not a fan of any basketball player not named mark madsen or jamal mashburn haha. but since mashburns done i have to find a new medi-core player to love. mashburn's been my favorite since 94. right now, im thinking im going to be salim stoudamire fan.

[Caleb Cattivera]

I'm rather late into this argument, but typically, I argue for the person who makes his team better than what they should be. Hypothetically, take that list and subtract that person from their team, and see where they are at. The only team from that list I would argue that wouldn't fall apart without him, is the Pistons with Billups. They would still likely be a great team. Second off, my criterion is, does he make the people around him better? I'm going to take away Kobe, because of the fact that his usage stats are just insane this year, it's surprising when I see a Lakers game and he does not have the ball, which is not necessarily a bad thing, however he really does not make anyone on his team a better player, and I will take away LBJ because of his failures in his team defense and because his apparant lack of need to include other players (Watch a Cavs game and count how many times he takes a long fade away instead of dishing to a wide open teammate...it's a lot).

For me, that leaves Brand and Nash. It's a tough one, because both guys are taking teams and making them significantly better than they should be, although neither is really putting up statistics that are far and away better than their norms. With Brand being a significantly greater deterrent on defense and the fact that he is on the Clippers and they are verging on "playoff team" status, I would love to choose Brand.

However, I will not. Steve Nash has taken a team that subtracted Quentin Richardson, Joe Johnson and Amare Stoudemire (So far), and replaced them essentially with James Jones, Boris Diaw-Riffiod, Raja Bell and Kurt Thomas. Not exactly the most threatening quartet, but Nash's direction of their offense has turned these previously middling pros into quality players, and in some cases, borderline stars (Gotta respect Boris and his 12, 6, 6). Watch the Suns, has there ever been a team with more easy baskets directly related to a single person. Even when he doesn't get the assist, it's his pass that sets it up. He plays it like chess, and it is absolutely ridiculous. Because of the fact that he kept the Suns as one of the best teams in the West, because he has made his team into an even better team than last year and because he's statistically fantastic too (Don't forget he's averaging nearly 20 pts. a game this year with 11 assists) he has to be the MVP.

steve nash will not win the mvp this year. your qualifications of an mvp...and the writers and voters...are two totally different things. kobe or brand will be this years winner. LBJ has no chance in hell.

i think ultimately it should come down to kobe and nash. i was big on brand earlier in the year. but i'd give the mvp of that team to cat mobley and sam cassell.

they lost bobby simmons and marko jaric...and replaced them with cat and cassell. brand HAS stepped up his game, but it's been the play of mobley and cassell that's carried that team to their best season in recent memory.

[fluke182]

Ok, I read through all of the arguments, which took me a little while, but I wanted to chime in on the Kobe thing. People saying that taking the Suns roster and putting Kobe on it, subtracting Nash, would make them better, that is ridiculous. I know this will be hard to envision, but imagine the Suns current roster BEFORE this year. Besides Nash, Marion and to a lesser extent, Kurt Thomas, there was NO ONE proven on the roster. Nash has turned these no name, forgotten players and turned them into high quality players. To whoever argued put Nash on the Lakers and they wouldn't win 30 games, I call an intense amount of shenanigans.

Subtract Kobe, subtract the triangle offense and make them a running team and that team would be kicking ass. They have a lot of athletes and when Odom was on the Heat and they ran, he was the man. Odom has the talent to be top 20, if not higher, in terms of players in the NBA. He is being entirely underutilized, and he is a player that thrives off of confidence, which frankly, Kobe does not supply. Nash would give them confidence. Mihm, Brian Cook, Luke Walton, Smush, George, all of them. Kobe cannot make them better than they are, I nearly promise you Nash could.

I am not a Kobe hater also. I think it is one of the most remarkable achievements in sports history that he scored 81 points. However, I still do not think he is the MVP because he does not make the Lakers a significantly better team, because of the lack of inclusion of teammates in some instances and because of his ongoing desire to take 5 to 10 incredibly bad shots a game instead of making a pass. Not to mention the fact that he is an INCREDIBLY overrated defender. Nash is not that bad of a defender, put him in a team oriented defense with a shot blocker or two and he's pretty decent.

I'm going to throw this out there too, to the people that say Billups is the MVP. Put Nash on the Pistons and I would not be surprised if they hadn't lost. As in any games. Who knows if I'm serious about that, but man, that would be an awesome thing to see, and hypotheticals are awesome arguments.

[mikeford]

oh and my name is Matt by the way, that way you don't have to call me Rufio...lol

in the words of homer simpson

"you chose fruit, you live with fruit."

[fluke182]

steve nash will not win the mvp this year. your qualifications of an mvp...and the writers and voters...are two totally different things. kobe or brand will be this years winner. LBJ has no chance in hell.

i think ultimately it should come down to kobe and nash. i was big on brand earlier in the year. but i'd give the mvp of that team to cat mobley and sam cassell.

they lost bobby simmons and marko jaric...and replaced them with cat and cassell. brand HAS stepped up his game, but it's been the play of mobley and cassell that's carried that team to their best season in recent memory.
I agree with that argument about Brand to a degree, because you could definitely make an argument that the changes in the roster are the biggest reasons they have improved. I wish they would clearly define MVP for the writers and voters, in all sports. I'm going to throw this out there, I still argue that Shaun Alexander should not have been the MVP in the NFL either, for the same reasons I said. Someone on ESPN.com made a great argument, take the player off the team and replace him with a decent player at the same position and then compare the record. It posits some interesting debate. Of course, you take Nash or Kobe off their respective teams and they are both totally screwed. So there that is.

[Caleb Cattivera]

I agree with that argument about Brand to a degree, because you could definitely make an argument that the changes in the roster are the biggest reasons they have improved. I wish they would clearly define MVP for the writers and voters, in all sports. I'm going to throw this out there, I still argue that Shaun Alexander should not have been the MVP in the NFL either, for the same reasons I said. Someone on ESPN.com made a great argument, take the player off the team and replace him with a decent player at the same position and then compare the record. It posits some interesting debate. Of course, you take Nash or Kobe off their respective teams and they are both totally screwed. So there that is.

nash's courtvision is insane. if kobe could give up the cockiness...id LOVE to see him and nash on the same team.

[weezer182]

i didnt read any of this up to now but i have to say steve nash deserves it again this year

[somethingyellow]

Ok, I read through all of the arguments, which took me a little while, but I wanted to chime in on the Kobe thing. People saying that taking the Suns roster and putting Kobe on it, subtracting Nash, would make them better, that is ridiculous. I know this will be hard to envision, but imagine the Suns current roster BEFORE this year. Besides Nash, Marion and to a lesser extent, Kurt Thomas, there was NO ONE proven on the roster. Nash has turned these no name, forgotten players and turned them into high quality players. To whoever argued put Nash on the Lakers and they wouldn't win 30 games, I call an intense amount of shenanigans.

Subtract Kobe, subtract the triangle offense and make them a running team and that team would be kicking ass. They have a lot of athletes and when Odom was on the Heat and they ran, he was the man. Odom has the talent to be top 20, if not higher, in terms of players in the NBA. He is being entirely underutilized, and he is a player that thrives off of confidence, which frankly, Kobe does not supply. Nash would give them confidence. Mihm, Brian Cook, Luke Walton, Smush, George, all of them. Kobe cannot make them better than they are, I nearly promise you Nash could.

I am not a Kobe hater also. I think it is one of the most remarkable achievements in sports history that he scored 81 points. However, I still do not think he is the MVP because he does not make the Lakers a significantly better team, because of the lack of inclusion of teammates in some instances and because of his ongoing desire to take 5 to 10 incredibly bad shots a game instead of making a pass. Not to mention the fact that he is an INCREDIBLY overrated defender. Nash is not that bad of a defender, put him in a team oriented defense with a shot blocker or two and he's pretty decent.

I'm going to throw this out there too, to the people that say Billups is the MVP. Put Nash on the Pistons and I would not be surprised if they hadn't lost. As in any games. Who knows if I'm serious about that, but man, that would be an awesome thing to see, and hypotheticals are awesome arguments.you hit it right on the head. I completely agree with you. I agree with you caleb too that nash will probably not win the mvp but he definately deserves it again. He is having an even better year then last year. Tim Legler made a good point on how nash makes everybody around him so much better. He took a guy in Boris Diaw who was a non threat on a bad hawks team and turned him into a nearly 12 point 6 assist guy in less then half a season. Yes kobe is having an amazing individual year but nash is still the more VALUABLE player for his team and teammates

[bigmike]

yeah, i think when your having a career year, and you're the primary(if not the only) playmaker on the 37-5 Detroit Pistons, you get automatic MVP candidate rights. he's right up there with the rest. i wouldn't be upset if Billups won. he's having a knockout season.

i voted for chauncey, as i'm biased.
but he's not the MVP and shouldn't be considered in the top 3, to be honest.

[radiofriendly]

i'd like to argue that Detroit would be a much different team without Billups. his numbers and percentages speak for themselves. but when you look at the five detroit losses, with the exception of the last Utah game(which was extremley close), Billups didn't produce. everything is flatlined except for the points he produces off his excellent free throw perc. he's just as much a catalyst on this team i think as Nash is for Pheonix. you can say he has a better team around him, but i think that argument would only ring true if Pheonix and Detroit had a similar record, but Billups has given a satisfactory result of having a good team record.(see: 37-5 record). only five losses: a testament to his consistency. while i still give the edge to Nash, there is no reason to count Billups out. stellar seasons for a lot of players this year.

[radiofriendly]

I'm going to throw this out there too, to the people that say Billups is the MVP. Put Nash on the Pistons and I would not be surprised if they hadn't lost. As in any games. Who knows if I'm serious about that, but man, that would be an awesome thing to see, and hypotheticals are awesome arguments.

you can't put Nash on the Pistons and expect Pheonix like results, or any other team for that matter. you can expect a great player, but he was a great player in Dallas too. different teams, yes, but still, he works in Pheonix because of their strategy. plus, this piston lineup is too rock solid to take out it's catalyst and insert such an offensive minded passer.

oh and great points in the rest of your post, too.

[bigmike]

i'd like to argue that Detroit would be a much different team without Billups. his numbers and percentages speak for themselves. but when you look at the five detroit losses, with the exception of the last Utah game(which was extremley close), Billups didn't produce. everything is flatlined except for the points he produces off his excellent free throw perc. he's just as much a catalyst on this team i think as Nash is for Pheonix. you can say he has a better team around him, but i think that argument would only ring true if Pheonix and Detroit had a similar record, but Billups has given a satisfactory result of having a good team record.(see: 37-5 record). only five losses: a testament to his consistency. while i still give the edge to Nash, there is no reason to count Billups out. stellar seasons for a lot of players this year.

i agree. I'm not really counting him out if i'm still putting him on the ballot. i just don't think he's a top 3 mvp candidate. why have people forgotten about elton brand, though?

[GoWaitInTheCar]

I've gotta vote for Kobe.

Though I wanted so badly to vote for Steve Nash.

[Doug]

I've gotta vote for Kobe.

Though I wanted so badly to vote for Steve Nash.

cmon, no one WANTS to vote for steve nash

[radiofriendly]

i agree. I'm not really counting him out if i'm still putting him on the ballot. i just don't think he's a top 3 mvp candidate. why have people forgotten about elton brand, though?

true. it's a tough year. lots of good players. I think he's having a breakout year, but i don't think he's the best big man or the most valuable. maybe it's my biased, but Dirk is playing out of his mind, more versatile, and just as much an asset and leader to his team. im certainly not discrediting Brand though...uncanny athleticism.

[Caleb Cattivera]

i agree. I'm not really counting him out if i'm still putting him on the ballot. i just don't think he's a top 3 mvp candidate. why have people forgotten about elton brand, though?

brand's been phenomenal. but he's not the one winning those games. cat mobley and cassell have made that team this year.

[radiofriendly]

brand's been phenomenal. but he's not the one winning those games. cat mobley and cassell have made that team this year.

yeah, i agree with that.

man, the clips are a corey maggette away from being a very good team.

[itsjdiggity]

James Singleton pwns

[fluke182]

you can't put Nash on the Pistons and expect Pheonix like results, or any other team for that matter. you can expect a great player, but he was a great player in Dallas too. different teams, yes, but still, he works in Pheonix because of their strategy. plus, this piston lineup is too rock solid to take out it's catalyst and insert such an offensive minded passer.

oh and great points in the rest of your post, too.
Yeah I know, I figured it'd be a great tidbit to throw out there to possibly incite some other interesting discussion. I agree Billups is perfect for the lineup, with his hard nosed defense, workman like passing and CLUTCH shooting. He is the definitive Piston, not Ben Wallace. Thanks about the points also.

[bigmike]

brand's been phenomenal. but he's not the one winning those games. cat mobley and cassell have made that team this year.

yeah, mobley and cassell have been playing great.

[ReturningSunday]

chauncey all the way

[ActorInThisPlay]

brand's been phenomenal. but he's not the one winning those games. cat mobley and cassell have made that team this year.
yeah true, but Brand is the one putting up the numbers. he is the #1 player on the team, but without Cassell and Mobley playing like they are, they are where they were last year.

[somethingyellow]

though I dont think he is the mvp, I still wanna give dirk some love. The mavs are tied with the best record in the west and he leads them in points 25.8, rebs 8.4, fg% 47.1, ft % 89.1, 3 pt% 43%. I think he gets under-looked when he is playing the best he has ever played

[radiofriendly]

though I dont think he is the mvp, I still wanna give dirk some love. The mavs are tied with the best record in the west and he leads them in points 25.8, rebs 8.4, fg% 47.1, ft % 89.1, 3 pt% 43%. I think he gets under-looked when he is playing the best he has ever played

hells yeah, i mentioned him earlier too. your right he's not the MVP(maybe top 3-5), but this man is unbelievable to watch. he's the core of this Dallas team that keeps getting better and better. he's arguably the best shooting big man in the history of the game(Mcadoo couldn't move like him), borderline unguardable. it's funny to see that most of the time if Dirk doesn't have a big night, it's because nobody gave him the ball. not because of his shot. and what's been even better is that he's becoming more of a defensive presence in the paint. he's grabbing some sick boards, and he's constantly stripping the ball from defenders. im really excited about my mavs this season.

[IAmNietzche]

Hahahaha, Nash won the MVP award last year averaging 15.5 points a game. That made me laugh SO hard.
You need to get out more if that made you laugh "SO" hard...

[Scott Weber]

You need to get out more if that made you laugh "SO" hard...
Oh come on, right after he said "you can't win the MVP without averaging 20 a game"? That shit's hilarious, considering it happened last year.

[radiofriendly]

that was pretty funny...

[getupkid53]

I laughed for a second....

I'd have to go kobe... I think the argument was solidified after the kobe cubed thread earlier.