Jerome Bettis not one of the all time greats

[Scott Weber]

Interesting article, and one that I've thought about many times myself.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/060125

[fromwithin]

its true, i hate the fact that people say instant hall of famer. he's picked up garbage yards throughout his career. I wonder how many 2-3td games he has in his career? Once James, Tomlinson, and Alexander are all retired, theyll bump "the bus" out of any spotlight he might have had.

[histrionics22]

Interesting article, and one that I've thought about many times myself.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/060125

He's the best "big" running back ever. The Steelers haven't always had a great O-line (Emmit Smith did). Plus consider the fact they had no passing game since the first game he played with the Steelers. Teams did all they could to stop the Bus but they still couldn't.

He's a great running back. People just forget because he quietly racked up the yards quietly and consistently.

[Scott Weber]

He's the best "big" running back ever. The Steelers haven't always had a great O-line (Emmit Smith did). Plus consider the fact they had no passing game since the first game he played with the Steelers. Teams did all they could to stop the Bus but they still couldn't.

He's a great running back. People just forget because he quietly racked up the yards quietly and consistently.
Nobody is contending that Bettis isn't a good running back, he's just overrated and not in the top 10-15 of all time, which is what some people give him credit for. Read the article, it adresses the passing game situation in it. Other Steeler running backs haven't had a problem gaining yards.

[b e L I E v e]

By far the best "big" runner back...but not in the top 10

[histrionics22]

Nobody is contending that Bettis isn't a good running back, he's just overrated and not in the top 10-15 of all time, which is what some people give him credit for. Read the article, it adresses the passing game situation in it. Other Steeler running backs haven't had a problem gaining yards.

I know no one is saying he isn't a good running back. But he isn't overrated. He's just getting the attention he deserves for being in the Super Bowl. When other Steeler backs are in the game, other teams usually don't usually expect the run. I bet he has one of the least numbers of carries for a loss. He is the most consistent at gaining 4 yards per carry.

[Scott Weber]

I know no one is saying he isn't a good running back. But he isn't overrated. He's just getting the attention he deserves for being in the Super Bowl. When other Steeler backs are in the game, other teams usually don't usually expect the run. I bet he has one of the least numbers of carries for a loss. He is the most consistent at gaining 4 yards per carry.
No, he is overrated. Announcers regularly call him one of the all-time greats. Gaining less than 4 yards a carry is unacceptable for any other running back besides Bettis.

[dai the flu]

nobody beats up and wears down a defense more than jerome bettis. it isnt so much his stats that are most important. its the way he affects the game around him.

[Scott Weber]

........ is nobody reading the article? Bettis does his job well, he's a very good running back, but is he one of the all time greats? top 10, 15, 20? That's the debate...

[histrionics22]

No, he is overrated. Announcers regularly call him one of the all-time greats. Gaining less than 4 yards a carry is unacceptable for any other running back besides Bettis.

He's slower so he doesnt get the 40+ yard runs other guys get. Take them away and Bettis has a better average. Consider the fact Willie Parker had the 2nd best yds per carry, but lost yards on 3 of 5 runs this season. Bettis doesn't do that.

[Mscales67]

He's slower so he doesnt get the 40+ yard runs other guys get. Take them away and Bettis has a better average. Consider the fact Willie Parker had the 2nd best yds per carry, but lost yards on 3 of 5 runs this season. Bettis doesn't do that.

thats just the difference of running styles, bettis wont try and cut outside where many yards are lost... he just rushes forward and gets taken down shortly crossing the los

[Scott Weber]

nobody is even debating the issue at hand, this is ridiculous. steeler fan boys - shut up and agree/disagree with the article.

[FreshyFresh23]

This article is great i think it hits home on a point no one is willing to touch on because of the so many "feel good" stories surrounding him... but its a fact he is not one of the GREATS.

He is good...but 8 of his 13 seasons are for UNDER 1100 yards. Any big guy weighing that much can rumble for 68 yards a game on 30 carries and get 1100 yards a game. That is not impressive at all for being a so called "GREAT". Sure hes a good player but no where near the category of Emmitt, Payton or Barry (to name a few)

[FreshyFresh23]

thats just the difference of running styles, bettis wont try and cut outside where many yards are lost... he just rushes forward and gets taken down shortly crossing the los

Haha exactly, which doesnt make him a great runner

[bigmike]

well, whether he's over or underrated, i'm still impressed that a man that big, that runs straight ahead into contact has managed to stay healthy enough to be something like the 5th leading rusher ever. that's impressive. even if he is overrated.

[Mscales67]

what i love about barry is what he did WITHOUT an o-line... now as a former olineman im partial but a good oline is far more necessary than a good qb... no one should try and argue from that angle

[Scott Weber]

well, whether he's over or underrated, i'm still impressed that a man that big, that runs straight ahead into contact has managed to stay healthy enough to be something like the 5th leading rusher ever. that's impressive. even if he is overrated.
people talk about Bettis like he's 38. He's 33. I know that's still impressive, but it's not stunning.

[Mscales67]

well, whether he's over or underrated, i'm still impressed that a man that big, that runs straight ahead into contact has managed to stay healthy enough to be something like the 5th leading rusher ever. that's impressive. even if he is overrated.

yeah longevity at the RB position is quite laudible especially for what he does... but in no way can anyone at all consider him underrated when he is being risen to the ranks of the greatest ever

[FreshyFresh23]

Does that make Bettis GREAT that he can average UNDER 4 yards a carry for so long and get that many yards? It can be argued that ANYONE could be put in his position to carry the ball that long for the low average to get that many yards whereas...someone like Barry, Curtis, Emmitt, Alexander, Tomlinson has to be a great runner and not just consistent

My point being, how is he GREAT for what he has done comparatively?

[Mscales67]

i kinda wish there was some hardcore bettis nut in here trying to argue against this... itd be more fun

[FreshyFresh23]

i kinda wish there was some hardcore bettis nut in here trying to argue against this... itd be more fun

haha me too

[FreshyFresh23]

people talk about Bettis like he's 38. He's 33. I know that's still impressive, but it's not stunning.


i love the seneca wallace gif in your sig. Mad propers

[FreshyFresh23]

i love this stat in the article:

Bettis: 192 GAMES....91 TDs
Alexander: 96 GAMES...89 TDS

[Scott Weber]

i love this stat in the article:

Bettis: 192 GAMES....91 TDs
Alexander: 96 GAMES...89 TDS
haha yeah, and people call Bettis so money in the red zone. whatever.


on an unrelated note, how the hell is this guy a center in the NFL???

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/303165

6 foot, 213lbs?? wtf?

[Mscales67]

i love this stat in the article:

Bettis: 192 GAMES....91 TDs
Alexander: 96 GAMES...89 TDS

that made me smile too... Bettis is just a glorified full back who still runs in a full back style

[Mscales67]

haha yeah, and people call Bettis so money in the red zone. whatever.


on an unrelated note, how the hell is this guy a center in the NFL???

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/303165

6 foot, 213lbs?? wtf?

maybe the 'c' stands for cant play instead of center

[Scott Weber]

maybe the 'c' stands for cant play instead of center
it's like that on 3 different sites too, can't be a typo...

[histrionics22]

people talk about Bettis like he's 38. He's 33. I know that's still impressive, but it's not stunning.

Exactly. He's 33 AND the 5th leading rusher of all time. He's the best running back at what he does. Putting his head down and running through people.

[Mscales67]

it's like that on 3 different sites too, can't be a typo...

center is the one o-line spot where its ok to be somewhat undersized but seriously brett favre is bigger than that

[Mscales67]

Exactly. He's 33 AND the 5th leading rusher of all time. He's the best running back at what he does. Putting his head down and running through people.

....fullback

192 games with 91 tds

[FreshyFresh23]

Exactly. He's 33 AND the 5th leading rusher of all time. He's the best running back at what he does. Putting his head down and running through people.


well Barry did it and more by 30... same with Payton...

Curtis Martin is younger and has more.

Emmitt had that many yards mid way through his 10th season...

[histrionics22]

i love this stat in the article:

Bettis: 192 GAMES....91 TDs
Alexander: 96 GAMES...89 TDS

Bullshit stat. Steelers don't score as much as the Seahawks do in general.

[Scott Weber]

Exactly. He's 33 AND the 5th leading rusher of all time. He's the best running back at what he does. Putting his head down and running through people.
That's not impressive. What's impressive is retiring at age 30 and being the #2 runner of all time (Barry Sanders). Impressive is 89 touchdowns at age 28 (Alexander)

[Scott Weber]

Bullshit stat. Steelers don't score as much as the Seahawks do in general.
LOL now THAT is fucking hilarious!!!!!!!!

[histrionics22]

That's not impressive. What's impressive is retiring at age 30 and being the #2 runner of all time (Barry Sanders). Impressive is 89 touchdowns at age 28 (Alexander)

Barry Sanders is probably the best running back ever. Touchdowns don't mean anything.

[Mscales67]

Barry Sanders is probably the best running back ever. Touchdowns don't mean anything.

I think that Barry Sanders is because what he did with what he had to work with. Aint this what Bettis is supposed to be great at though? Redzone and "putting his head down" i think thats what you said

[FreshyFresh23]

Bullshit stat. Steelers don't score as much as the Seahawks do in general.

Not bullshit, its just a fact.

The Steelers, in Jeromes "best years" were always in the top 5-10 in the league in rushing ..

Alexander just knows how to find the endzone better

[histrionics22]

LOL now THAT is fucking hilarious!!!!!!!!

You care to explain how its hilarious. The Steelers were never known for their offense. They even went through 2+ seasons trying to be a pass first offense and failed. Since Alexander has been on the Seahawks they score more. A more compelling stat would be red zone attempts per touchdown. But I guess that stat would ruin you're whole theory.

[Scott Weber]

LOL now THAT is fucking hilarious!!!!!!!!
This year, Seattle's best offensive year in history, they averaged 4 more points per game than the Steelers. In 2004, their offensive PPG was the same.
In 2003, Seattle led,
in 2002, Pitt led
in 2001, Pitt dominated

nice "bullshit" stat defense dude

[FreshyFresh23]

Barry Sanders is probably the best running back ever. Touchdowns don't mean anything.

How can you say touchdowns dont mean anything? That's like saying total points dont mean anything in basketball

[Scott Weber]

You care to explain how its hilarious. The Steelers were never known for their offense. They even went through 2+ seasons trying to be a pass first offense and failed. Since Alexander has been on the Seahawks they score more. A more compelling stat would be red zone attempts per touchdown. But I guess that stat would ruin you're whole theory.
see above stat, you ignorant s.o.b. ;)

[Scott Weber]

and for God's sake, it's YOUR not YOU'RE. Did people skip 3rd grade? Biggest pet peeve ever.

[Jesse2]

Touchdowns don't mean anything.

I feel like I should give you a chance to explain yourself before I decide that your statement is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

[bigmike]

it's like that on 3 different sites too, can't be a typo...

is he a long snapper?

[Mscales67]

Barry Sanders is probably the best running back ever. Touchdowns don't mean anything.

so is this predicting that pitt wins 0 to 0 since apparently scoring is irrelevant?

[GoWaitInTheCar]

True facts there.

But he deserves a ring before he retires.

It's Pittsburgh's Year.

[histrionics22]

This year, Seattle's best offensive year in history, they averaged 4 more points per game than the Steelers. In 2004, their offensive PPG was the same.
In 2003, Seattle led,
in 2002, Pitt led
in 2001, Pitt dominated

nice "bullshit" stat defense dude

2001 Kordell Stweart passed for 14 TDs and rushed for 5. 2002 Pittsburgh had tommy maddox and he passed the ball for 20 TDs. Nice bullshit attempt at trying to refute my answer dude.

[Scott Weber]

You care to explain how its hilarious. The Steelers were never known for their offense. They even went through 2+ seasons trying to be a pass first offense and failed. Since Alexander has been on the Seahawks they score more. A more compelling stat would be red zone attempts per touchdown. But I guess that stat would ruin you're whole theory.
And for the record, Shaun Alexander got 24 touchdowns in 66 red zone attempts this year, which is one of the highest ratios in recent NFL history. Guess that ruins "you're" theory. This year Jerome got 9 on 42 carries. Year before that, 13 in 61 carries. 2003, 7 in 38. 2002, 9 in 29. Do I need to keep doing the math for you?

[fluke182]

No, he is overrated. Announcers regularly call him one of the all-time greats. Gaining less than 4 yards a carry is unacceptable for any other running back besides Bettis.
Favorite Bettis stat line. 5 carries. -4 yards. 4 touchdowns. Absolutely ridiculous.

[FreshyFresh23]

PS

Seattle is the Number 1 Red zone offense...



Shaun Alexander - OPP 19-1 YD line... 66 ATT 24 TDS...2.75 att per
Jerome 42 ATT 9 TDs .. 4.66 att per

[FreshyFresh23]

And for the record, Shaun Alexander got 24 touchdowns in 66 red zone attempts this year, which is one of the highest ratios in recent NFL history. Guess that ruins "you're" theory. This year Jerome got 9 on 42 carries. Year before that, 13 in 61 carries. 2003, 7 in 38. 2002, 9 in 29. Do I need to keep doing the math for you?

oh damn you beat me to it!

[histrionics22]

I feel like I should give you a chance to explain yourself before I decide that your statement is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

What I mean is TDs can be misleading in the fact that someone can carry the balld 3 times for 3 yards and have 3 TDs. But just comparing TDs when you haven't taken into account attempts near the endzone or attempts in general is misleading.

[Scott Weber]

2001 Kordell Stweart passed for 14 TDs and rushed for 5. 2002 Pittsburgh had tommy maddox and he passed the ball for 20 TDs. Nice bullshit attempt at trying to refute my answer dude.
What are you talking about? You said Seattle has always scored more than Pittsburgh, you fucking idiot. I showed you that you are clearly wrong.

[Mscales67]

What I mean is TDs can be misleading in the fact that someone can carry the balld 3 times for 3 yards and have 3 TDs. But just comparing TDs when you haven't taken into account attempts near the endzone or attempts in general is misleading.

7 yards better than bettis....

[FreshyFresh23]

2001 Kordell Stweart passed for 14 TDs and rushed for 5. 2002 Pittsburgh had tommy maddox and he passed the ball for 20 TDs. Nice bullshit attempt at trying to refute my answer dude.

2001 Seattle QBs combined for 15 TDs and 12 Ints..

Seattle offense ranked 21st Pittsburgh's ranked 3rd

[Scott Weber]

hahaha, histrionics is just getting pummeled. now it's getting fun. too bad i have to leave in 20 minutes.

[histrionics22]

And for the record, Shaun Alexander got 24 touchdowns in 66 red zone attempts this year, which is one of the highest ratios in recent NFL history. Guess that ruins "you're" theory. This year Jerome got 9 on 42 carries. Year before that, 13 in 61 carries. 2003, 7 in 38. 2002, 9 in 29. Do I need to keep doing the math for you?

You're right. But you theres just way too many factors to take into account. The fact that he got into the redzone 66 times is ridiculous.

[Scott Weber]

2001 Seattle QBs combined for 15 TDs and 12 Ints..

Seattle offense ranked 21st Pittsburgh's ranked 3rd
hahaha, i love it.

histrionics, do your research or be made out to look like a fool.

[histrionics22]

What are you talking about? You said Seattle has always scored more than Pittsburgh, you fucking idiot. I showed you that you are clearly wrong.

Scored more rushing touchdowns. Sorry for not clarifying myself.

[histrionics22]

hahaha, i love it.

histrionics, do your research or be made out to look like a fool.

Calm down man. I'm just trying to argue my view. I was wrong for cursing before. I don't have time to do hard research. I'm going by my own observations.

[FreshyFresh23]

Scored more rushing touchdowns. Sorry for not clarifying myself.

Pitt had 16 rushing TDs that year and Seattle had 15.

and 66 times isnt ridiclous...

Willie parker had 68!

[Scott Weber]

You're right. But you theres just way too many factors to take into account. The fact that he got into the redzone 66 times is ridiculous.
Yeah - it helps when you gain 1880 yards to get you to the redzone. Still think the Steelers are going to dominate this game?

[Scott Weber]

Calm down man. I'm just trying to argue my view. I was wrong for cursing before. I don't have time to do hard research. I'm going by my own observations.
you don't have time? www.nfl.com. I'm studying, playing xbox, looking up stats, and debating all at the same time. takes 2 seconds.

[histrionics22]

you don't have time? www.nfl.com (http://www.nfl.com). I'm studying, playing xbox, looking up stats, and debating all at the same time. takes 2 seconds.

No I don't have time scott. Much like you I am in college and it tajes up the majority of my life. It's been a fun discussion. Later

[histrionics22]

Yeah - it helps when you gain 1880 yards to get you to the redzone. Still think the Steelers are going to dominate this game?

I never said they were going to dominate. Read my othe rposts. I said it would be close. Don't associate me with all the other Steeler bandwagon blowout people.

[Scott Weber]

No I don't have time scott. Much like you I am in college and it tajes up the majority of my life. It's been a fun discussion. Later
hahaha, that's classic, i've studied at least 5 hours a day for the past 3 days, and I'm only home for an hour and a half before I leave for another study session and you don't have time to use google.com? Haha. Later man, it was fun.

[fluke182]

My bad on the stat line. 5 carries, 1 yard, 3 touchdowns. My memory is not as good as it used to be. Damn me!

[histrionics22]

hahaha, that's classic, i've studied at least 5 hours a day for the past 3 days, and I'm only home for an hour and a half before I leave for another study session and you don't have time to use google.com? Haha. Later man, it was fun.

Haha calm down I didnt accuse you of not being a good student. But I have much more better things to do than continue this discussion with Seattle supporters who couldn't see something from someone else's point of view besides their own.

[Mscales67]

hahaha, that's classic, i've studied at least 5 hours a day for the past 3 days, and I'm only home for an hour and a half before I leave for another study session and you don't have time to use google.com? Haha. Later man, it was fun.

yeah it was fun but histronics u didnt do a half bad job especially being the lone one... but still it was fun and freshyfresh u know ur stuff

[Scott Weber]

Haha calm down I didnt accuse you of not being a good student. But I have much more better things to do than continue this discussion with Seattle supporters who couldn't see something from someone else's point of view besides their own.
I can totally see the other point of view man, I was just showing you how your research and reasoning was wrong. I actually love The Bus, I just think he gets a lot more credit than he deserves. I know you didn't accuse me of it, I'm just saying if I have time...you have time ;)

[Scott Weber]

yeah it was fun but histronics u didnt do a half bad job especially being the lone one... but still it was fun and freshyfresh u know ur stuff
yeah, we've had far worse...be LIE ve

[Mscales67]

yeah, we've had far worse...be LIE ve

i dont doubt it... and by the way i do like bettis and what he has done in the nfl is quite laudible but like scott i also think he gets more credit than is due. but again it was fun and i see why jason loves the sports forum

[weezer182]

yeah, we've had far worse...be LIE vehahaha good old believe

[FreshyFresh23]

you don't have time? www.nfl.com (http://www.nfl.com). I'm studying, playing xbox, looking up stats, and debating all at the same time. takes 2 seconds.

Same here hah

What are you playing

[histrionics22]

I can totally see the other point of view man, I was just showing you how your research and reasoning was wrong. I actually love The Bus, I just think he gets a lot more credit than he deserves. I know you didn't accuse me of it, I'm just saying if I have time...you have time ;)

Haha alright Scott. Just dont ever associate me with the common Steeler fan again. I'm a HUGE fan of the Pirates and Penguins as well.

[DroppedUrPocket]

nobody is even debating the issue at hand, this is ridiculous. steeler fan boys - shut up and agree/disagree with the article.
lol

[ActorInThisPlay]

Interesting article, and one that I've thought about many times myself.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/060125
yeah I tend to agree with the article. Bettis is good but he definitely isn't in even the top 15 best RB's of all time let alone top 5. Averaging under 4 yards per carry is very poor and he even addressed that he is supposed to be good on short TD situations yet has like 96 TD's in 192 games. I would definitely say he is overrated.

[Scott Weber]

Same here hah

What are you playing
i finally got MVP baseball 06, i'm likin it

[ActorInThisPlay]

i finally got MVP baseball 06, i'm likin it
is it a lot different then 05 or pretty much the same?

[Scott Weber]

is it a lot different then 05 or pretty much the same?
well it's college baseball, so I'd call it like 100% different. haha. nah the gameplay has changed a lot actually.

[FreshyFresh23]

is it a lot different then 05 or pretty much the same?

its college

[FreshyFresh23]

well it's college baseball, so I'd call it like 100% different. haha. nah the gameplay has changed a lot actually.

how do the analog sticks work? too bad they dont have it for 360 or id get that

[FreshyFresh23]

on a side note..

Can anyone tell me how to get Sony discs to work with iTunes?

[ActorInThisPlay]

well it's college baseball, so I'd call it like 100% different. haha. nah the gameplay has changed a lot actually.
haha I didn't even know that...so MVP Baseball 06 is college? cool I guess. I have 05 right now and I love it, I didn't even know 06 came out yet. I am a little behind on it I guess.

[dai the flu]

is jerome bettis one of the best ever? no.
is he one of the best personalities in the NFL ever? yes.
does he deserve to have a little bit of hoopla over him before he retires? yes.
but again, no, not one of the best. just a solid consistent leader. and i hope he goes out with a ring.

[still_life]

I don't think anyone except for maybe Peter King (a HOF voter) would try putting Bettis in the top 5 all time for RB's, but you're crazy if you don't think he belongs in the top 20 or 15.

RB's his size don't last that long in the NFL. The closest guys to his style that are in the HOF are Larry Csonka and John Riggins. Does John Riggins suck because he averaged just under 4.0 ypc too? I don't think so. Big bruising backs don't run for average, and average isn't always important. A game against San Diego this year is a good example of Bettis' ability in short yardage. His stat line may not have been gaudy, but the fact that he could pick up 3rd and 1's to keep drives alive is huge.

Rushing TDs are an overrated stat, typically just a product of goal line carries. If you get near the goal line a lot, you could put up a lot of TD's.

Joe Morris
Terry Allen
Greg Bell
Karim Abdul-Jabbar
Ickey Woods
George Rogers
Stephen Davis
Chuck Muncie
Mike Anderson
Steve VanBuren
Pete Banaszak

What kind of HOF potential do any of these RB's that have rushed for 15+ TDs in a season have? None. Stephen Davis was awful this year, yet he punched in 12 TDs even with missing a lot of games. Doesn't mean he had a great season.

When you look at the resume of accomplishments, there's no doubt Bettis has been one of the best. Rookie of the year, Pro Bowler 6 times (including rookie year), 61 100 yard games, 5th in yards, 8 1000 yard seasons (which is not an easy accomplishment) and he carried a team's rushing game for many years, and did come close in some MVP races.

[FondestMemory]

i think he's without a doubt a hall of famer. there's nothing anybody could say to make me think otherwise.

top 5 or 10 ever, no.

top 15-20, yeah, i think so.

[Scott Weber]

how do the analog sticks work? too bad they dont have it for 360 or id get that
I tried the sticks for about 10 minutes, couldn't get it, and switched it back to 05 hitting style.

[Scott Weber]

I don't think anyone except for maybe Peter King (a HOF voter) would try putting Bettis in the top 5 all time for RB's, but you're crazy if you don't think he belongs in the top 20 or 15.

RB's his size don't last that long in the NFL. The closest guys to his style that are in the HOF are Larry Csonka and John Riggins. Does John Riggins suck because he averaged just under 4.0 ypc too? I don't think so. Big bruising backs don't run for average, and average isn't always important. A game against San Diego this year is a good example of Bettis' ability in short yardage. His stat line may not have been gaudy, but the fact that he could pick up 3rd and 1's to keep drives alive is huge.

Rushing TDs are an overrated stat, typically just a product of goal line carries. If you get near the goal line a lot, you could put up a lot of TD's.

Joe Morris
Terry Allen
Greg Bell
Karim Abdul-Jabbar
Ickey Woods
George Rogers
Stephen Davis
Chuck Muncie
Mike Anderson
Steve VanBuren
Pete Banaszak

What kind of HOF potential do any of these RB's that have rushed for 15+ TDs in a season have? None. Stephen Davis was awful this year, yet he punched in 12 TDs even with missing a lot of games. Doesn't mean he had a great season.

When you look at the resume of accomplishments, there's no doubt Bettis has been one of the best. Rookie of the year, Pro Bowler 6 times (including rookie year), 61 100 yard games, 5th in yards, 8 1000 yard seasons (which is not an easy accomplishment) and he carried a team's rushing game for many years, and did come close in some MVP races.
Very solid argument. I'd put him around 16 or 17 all time, just not top 10 like I've heard a few announcers suggest.

[histrionics22]

I don't think anyone except for maybe Peter King (a HOF voter) would try putting Bettis in the top 5 all time for RB's, but you're crazy if you don't think he belongs in the top 20 or 15.

RB's his size don't last that long in the NFL. The closest guys to his style that are in the HOF are Larry Csonka and John Riggins. Does John Riggins suck because he averaged just under 4.0 ypc too? I don't think so. Big bruising backs don't run for average, and average isn't always important. A game against San Diego this year is a good example of Bettis' ability in short yardage. His stat line may not have been gaudy, but the fact that he could pick up 3rd and 1's to keep drives alive is huge.

Rushing TDs are an overrated stat, typically just a product of goal line carries. If you get near the goal line a lot, you could put up a lot of TD's.

Joe Morris
Terry Allen
Greg Bell
Karim Abdul-Jabbar
Ickey Woods
George Rogers
Stephen Davis
Chuck Muncie
Mike Anderson
Steve VanBuren
Pete Banaszak

What kind of HOF potential do any of these RB's that have rushed for 15+ TDs in a season have? None. Stephen Davis was awful this year, yet he punched in 12 TDs even with missing a lot of games. Doesn't mean he had a great season.

When you look at the resume of accomplishments, there's no doubt Bettis has been one of the best. Rookie of the year, Pro Bowler 6 times (including rookie year), 61 100 yard games, 5th in yards, 8 1000 yard seasons (which is not an easy accomplishment) and he carried a team's rushing game for many years, and did come close in some MVP races.

He said it a lot better than what I was trying to say. I wasn't necessarily arguing he's in the top 5. I would go so far as to say he belongs the in top 10 however. There is more to a running back than stats. Yards and touchdowns are great. Getting crucial 4th and 1s like in the Indianapolis game is what makes him better than the stats.

Bettis has been able to do what needs to be done to be a great running back. He's been a team leader since he joined the Steelers. When he joined it was shut down Bettis and you win the game. During these years however he had arguably his best years as a pro. 1996-2001 with over 1000 yards. He wears down defenses and eats up the clock and has been a significant reason why the Steelers have been successful since he joined. This kind of stuff goes beyond the stats.

[FASSWcore]

well it's college baseball, so I'd call it like 100% different. haha. nah the gameplay has changed a lot actually.
yeah, it's definitely a good play

[bigmike]

Haha alright Scott. Just dont ever associate me with the common Steeler fan again. I'm a HUGE fan of the Pirates and Penguins as well.

my condolences.

[still_life]

This is what Peter King said about Bettis

"Well, in a few years, I'll give him his credit, if I'm still sitting in the Hall of Fame selection meetings at the Super Bowl. Bettis is a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Among the players I've covered in 22 seasons, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Lawrence Taylor, Brett Favre and Anthony Munoz should get to the Hall before Bettis. That's it. Seven players. Then Bettis. How many running backs are beating stacked defenses at 32 and 33 years old? Sunday in Philadelphia, the Eagles said: We're going to stop LaDainian Tomlinson. He got seven yards. A year ago, I'm sure the Eagles said: We're going to stop Bettis. And he got 149. (I give massive props to the Smith-Faneca-Hartings-led offensive line. He can't do it without those five guys. But the San Diego line is pretty good too.)

Enjoy him while you can, folks. This rodeo won't be in town much longer"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/peter_king/10/24/mmqb.week7/1.html