Curtain Calls On Walkabouts.

[beau blood rush]

posted this up today.
top song on the page http://www.myspace.com/forourhero


I wished away the bloody nose
Covered up the bruises
Sure I have my doubts but fathers so proud
He pats me on the back and sits me down
Says “good boy, you blew them out all by yourself”

The school-yards changing,
(keep you blurry)
The fist-fights samey
(an’ head-ached heads a' rolling)
I’m throwing punches
Your drop-drop-droping again

Put tickets on me
I’ll only keep’em to fly us home
The mic rings hollow:
"This’ll be my year"
Check me in
The curtain-calls on walkabouts
Most of us are on the bench
Just itching to get back in

Give us something to write home about
Before I bluff another get-well to myself
Tell mama i’m a dreamer,
And father i’m a sinner
Don’t bother with the in betweens

Fell in love with the lazy winners,
Kickin' back our teens

Put tickets on me
I’ll only keep’em to fly us home
The mic rings hollow
"This’ll be my year"
Check me in
The curtain-calls on walkabouts
Most of us are on the bench
Just itching to get back in

[beau blood rush]

definition of "walkabout" for americans.

1. Australian A temporary return to traditional Aboriginal life, taken especially between periods of work or residence in white society and usually involving a period of travel through the bush.

[The Boat]

dude im a fan of your band, i reckon you guys will blow short stack away when you open for their sway sway tour, even though i really like those dudes haha.

but its a really good song, listened to it a few times now, love the da das. really looking forward to the ep.

p.s you need to come up to brissy soon. also you are an amzing writer.

[beau blood rush]

wow.
thank-you so much man
really want to come up to brisbane and do a show with 52flicks
& yes the guys from ss are amazing dudes
hopefully see you around

[The Boat]

id hope that youd be headlining that show.
those dudes opened for stack and the chicks only liked them cause one of the dudes took his shirt off, which is also what their film clip is based around. some of their songs were okay though.
they're probably decent guys but they piss me off haha.

[beau blood rush]

oh i had no idea, that's not cool.
I had an itch you would be a part of that band

[The Boat]

nah no way haha, i like blink, but they just completely rip them off.
its like listening to the missing songs between dude ranch and enema of the state. and adding in some synth for 'why nots'. i mean theyve even got a song about boners.

there are way better bands up here you should try to get a show with. but im guessing once your ep comes out you shouldnt have too much trouble getting a show.

[beau blood rush]

who are the good bands up there?
cos if our EP gets us any money we want to use it to tour up the east coast and we'd love to go to Brisbane

[The Boat]

http://www.myspace.com/conradsewellandmattcopley - these dudes are amazing thats all i need to say.
http://www.myspace.com/saveusforsummer - seen these guys a few times, way better live then their recordings suggests, super nice guys aswell.
http://www.myspace.com/wherewolves - openeed for all time low recently, one of the better known brissy bands.
http://www.myspace.com/heycarlisleofficial - lost their singer, changed their sound, old band opened for nfg and mcr.
http://www.myspace.com/goldentonesband - havent heard this band yet, but 2 of the dudes were in a band that opened for fall out boy and they were really good.
http://www.myspace.com/ellingtonrock - obviously they're supporting stack, so youll meet them soon.
http://www.myspace.com/finabahaus - dont know too much about them, but they sound alright haha.

althought not from brisbane. http://www.myspace.com/needlesandbees. these guys are from new zealand but just moved to melbourne a few months ago. great dudes and great sound. should check them out if you want a good opener for a home town show.

[The Personist]

posted this up today.
top song on the page http://www.myspace.com/forourhero


I wished away the bloody nose
Covered up the bruises
Sure I have my doubts but fathers so proud
He pats me on the back and sits me down
Says “good boy, you blew them out all by yourself”

The school-yards changing,
(keep you blurry)
The fist-fights samey
(an’ head-ached heads a' rolling)
I’m throwing punches
Your drop-drop-droping again

Put tickets on me
I’ll only keep’em to fly us home
The mic rings hollow:
"This’ll be my year"
Check me in
The curtain-calls on walkabouts
Most of us are on the bench
Just itching to get back in

Give us something to write home about
Before I bluff another get-well to myself
Tell mama i’m a dreamer,
And father i’m a sinner
Don’t bother with the in betweens

Fell in love with the lazy winners,
Kickin' back our teens

Put tickets on me
I’ll only keep’em to fly us home
The mic rings hollow
"This’ll be my year"
Check me in
The curtain-calls on walkabouts
Most of us are on the bench
Just itching to get back in

I bolded all the cliches in this. If you would like me to, I can explain how they are cliches and then provide links to my own writing if you need proof that I am able to critique things because I have the oeuvre to back up my criticisms.

In my opinion, you should stop using cliches and trying so hard to sound like Pete Wentz or Alex Gaskarth (or whoever writes for All Time Low; the fist-fight section sounded like an echoing of "Coffee Shop Soundtrack") and try to present images in a new way to your audience. Otherwise, you're just middling about in mediocrity and showing that you don't really care about improving your craft and simply want to be praised for what you write, which, to me, is damned irresponsible and an affront to anyone who has ever written a lyric or poem because it says that what matters most is the praise, not the art. Even if you're in a pop-punk band, the craft of the lyrics is important. See: Northstar and Thrice (not pop-punk, but part of the scene). If you want us to be nice and take you seriously, take our criticism--from this thread and the last--seriously and work on improving.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

[OveriseFan]

I bolded all the cliches in this. If you would like me to, I can explain how they are cliches and then provide links to my own writing if you need proof that I am able to critique things because I have the oeuvre to back up my criticisms.

WHOA! I won't have the discussion in this thread - but I strongly disagree with you.

[The Personist]

WHOA! I won't have the discussion in this thread - but I strongly disagree with you.

I don't actually believe that. I was basing what I said off stuff HE said in the last thread thespearkid and I offered criticism of his work in.

[OveriseFan]

I don't actually believe that. I was basing what I said off stuff HE said in the last thread thespearkid and I offered criticism of his work in.

...so you bolded things that weren't cliches? And you don't think that he should remove all of them?

Because I got the sarcasm part, I think... but the whole cliche thing is what totally threw me. I strongly disagree if you think everything you bolded was a cliche and should be removed.

[beau blood rush]

Thankyou for your criticisms David (i'm guessing)
But I'm only posting songs here for exposure to people who may like them,
obviously everyone's welcome to critique but i won't be taking much of it on board
& this is the reason why

I can write your style, but i don't.
Because i feel that it lacks soul and the ability to connect with a contemporary audience.
In my opinion I feel it is far more cliche than anything i could write as it's simply "english-class poetry".
You obviously have a long list of poets that you call influences.
Where as I only admire them,
not for their style but for how relevant it was at the particular time.
I'm chasing that relevancy & obviously i'm not there yet.
But only in the same way that you're not where you're heading.
You are obviously a better writer in the sense that if you put our works in front of an examiner you will come out on top,
but put 'em in front of regular people & i'm confident that i will do O.K
that's just my shitty opinion though.

On a different note thank you Oversizefan for acknowledging that this cliche thing has gone a tiny bit too far.
Oh & cheers for the links Boat

[thespearkid]

Thankyou for your criticisms David (i'm guessing)
But I'm only posting songs here for exposure to people who may like them,
obviously everyone's welcome to critique but i won't be taking much of it on board
& this is the reason why

I can write your style, but i don't.
Because i feel that it lacks soul and the ability to connect with a contemporary audience.
In my opinion I feel it is far more cliche than anything i could write as it's simply "english-class poetry".
You obviously have a long list of poets that you call influences.
Where as I only admire them,
not for their style but for how relevant it was at the particular time.
I'm chasing that relevancy & obviously i'm not there yet.
But only in the same way that you're not where you're heading.
You are obviously a better writer in the sense that if you put our works in front of an examiner you will come out on top,
but put 'em in front of regular people & i'm confident that i will do O.K
that's just my shitty opinion though.

On a different note thank you Oversizefan for acknowledging that this cliche thing has gone a tiny bit too far.
Oh & cheers for the links Boat
I just want to address a few things in this post. First of all, there is no such thing as "english-class poetry" unless you're referring to poetry that submits to basic rules of what makes a poem a poem. Secondly, a lot of the poets David loves are timeless. There relevance is just as fresh now as it was when they were writing. The type of music you write, on the other hand, will be forgotten about within forty years (not saying anything about the quality, that is just the fate of MOST music trends). Also, the "highlighting cliches" thing is something I came up with. I think it helps (especially since a lot of writers ask "where is it cliche?"). Finally, it's obvious you don't write music for audiences like David but this forum isn't for writing and finding people to like your stuff and comment on it. It's for feedback. If you post here, people will post their opinion on how it can be improved. If you don't want that, stop posting here.

[The Personist]

Thankyou for your criticisms David (i'm guessing)
But I'm only posting songs here for exposure to people who may like them,
obviously everyone's welcome to critique but i won't be taking much of it on board
& this is the reason why

I can write your style, but i don't.
Because i feel that it lacks soul and the ability to connect with a contemporary audience.
In my opinion I feel it is far more cliche than anything i could write as it's simply "english-class poetry".
You obviously have a long list of poets that you call influences.
Where as I only admire them,
not for their style but for how relevant it was at the particular time.
I'm chasing that relevancy & obviously i'm not there yet.
But only in the same way that you're not where you're heading.
You are obviously a better writer in the sense that if you put our works in front of an examiner you will come out on top,
but put 'em in front of regular people & i'm confident that i will do O.K
that's just my shitty opinion though.

On a different note thank you Oversizefan for acknowledging that this cliche thing has gone a tiny bit too far.
Oh & cheers for the links Boat

here we go.

Firstly, how dare you accuse me of lacking soul and lacking relevancy. Obviously what I write isn't relevant to a pop-punk fan (and your band is catering to those fans of Fall Out Boy who want Wentzian lyrics and Blink-182 swagger) because what I'm writing is a little more thoughtful and a little less...superficial. That's a nice word for it. Superficial. I'm not saying pop-punk is shallow; Northstar, for instance, wrote great lyrics. But this is not great. It's an attempt to be clever. I don't understand why it's "English class poetry" when it isn't 100% obvious, when it uses words you may not have heard (I used to use too many big words, of course, but now I think I've worked on that sufficiently). If there are not enough clever one-liners in my poetry for you, then I am sincerely sorry, but I do not think being clever or cool is what the goal is. The goal is art. And art is a conversation, not a monologue. My poetry hopefully makes people think.

But you clearly don't want a conversation. You want a monologue. You have ignored every legitimate comment anyone has ever made on your songs because you're convinced you're already perfect and therefore are immune to whatever "english class" critiques we may have for you. Well, I have news for you: if Pete Wentz took an English class, he might be a better writer. I dare you to find someone who reads T. S. Eliot's Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock and isn't immediately struck by the powerful emotions in it. Even if they don't get it, they feel it. And that's what's important. You're writing for selfish gratification, and if you want that, I don't care. You're already in a band and your fans probably adooooore you, so therey ou go. There is your satisfaction. Take it and leave, please, because if you are going to post here and expect what you write to pass for perfect, then you are wasting your time and your typing.

And for the record, I like Fall Out Boy. And PEte Wentz >>>> You.

[OveriseFan]

here we go.

Firstly, how dare you accuse me of lacking soul and lacking relevancy. Obviously what I write isn't relevant to a pop-punk fan (and your band is catering to those fans of Fall Out Boy who want Wentzian lyrics and Blink-182 swagger) because what I'm writing is a little more thoughtful and a little less...superficial. That's a nice word for it. Superficial. I'm not saying pop-punk is shallow; Northstar, for instance, wrote great lyrics. But this is not great. It's an attempt to be clever. I don't understand why it's "English class poetry" when it isn't 100% obvious, when it uses words you may not have heard (I used to use too many big words, of course, but now I think I've worked on that sufficiently). If there are not enough clever one-liners in my poetry for you, then I am sincerely sorry, but I do not think being clever or cool is what the goal is. The goal is art. And art is a conversation, not a monologue. My poetry hopefully makes people think.

But you clearly don't want a conversation. You want a monologue. You have ignored every legitimate comment anyone has ever made on your songs because you're convinced you're already perfect and therefore are immune to whatever "english class" critiques we may have for you. Well, I have news for you: if Pete Wentz took an English class, he might be a better writer. I dare you to find someone who reads T. S. Eliot's Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock and isn't immediately struck by the powerful emotions in it. Even if they don't get it, they feel it. And that's what's important. You're writing for selfish gratification, and if you want that, I don't care. You're already in a band and your fans probably adooooore you, so therey ou go. There is your satisfaction. Take it and leave, please, because if you are going to post here and expect what you write to pass for perfect, then you are wasting your time and your typing.

And for the record, I like Fall Out Boy. And PEte Wentz >>>> You.

The worst part is is: He has to want to improve. His role in the band is lyric-writing. It's really bad if he's content to rest on his laurels, because that's like a drummer not wanting to practice with a metronome.

(Note: I'm not knocking you, Beau, but I think it's a very bad attitude to not seek to better yourself all the time. Writing is just like playing an instrument - and you have to keep practicing, pushing yourself, and learning new things. Don't turn away from criticism. People like what you're doing - but you need to improve so that people start to LOVE what you're doing. Strive for perfection. Strive to be the best you can.)

[The Personist]

The worst part is is: He has to want to improve. His role in the band is lyric-writing. It's really bad if he's content to rest on his laurels, because that's like a drummer not wanting to practice with a metronome.

(Note: I'm not knocking you, Beau, but I think it's a very bad attitude to not seek to better yourself all the time. Writing is just like playing an instrument - and you have to keep practicing, pushing yourself, and learning new things. Don't turn away from criticism. People like what you're doing - but you need to improve so that people start to LOVE what you're doing. Strive for perfection. Strive to be the best you can.)

I totally overreacted. But I don't care. My art was on the line.

[The Personist]

I just noticed you called me cliche. I defy you to prove that statement.

/beating a dead horse.

[beau blood rush]

I definitely said in my post that "I'm not there yet" so I would hate for you to think that I'm pretending
I have nothing left to learn.
I definitely need & want to get better.
What I'm saying is that i probably won't listen to those whose style is shared with you David,
Because i don't enjoy it & I personally don't find it relevant.
But i definitely want to improve,
So any advice you could give me that doesn't apply to the actual style i've chosen
('cos i will never agree that half the lines you say are cliche, are)
I will definitely take it in.
I don't know maybe advice on my form or rhymes.

Also, i can't remember who said music trends are forgotten in 40 years but that's pretty stupid
bands & popular music are only a few decades over 40 years ago
& there are many, many artists from the 60's & 70's that are remembered today.
That's a pretty silly statement and i'm not very sure on what you're actually trying to say?

[The Personist]

I definitely said in my post that "I'm not there yet" so I would hate for you to think that I'm pretending
I have nothing left to learn.
I definitely need & want to get better.
What I'm saying is that i probably won't listen to those whose style is shared with you David,
Because i don't enjoy it & I personally don't find it relevant.
But i definitely want to improve,
So any advice you could give me that doesn't apply to the actual style i've chosen
('cos i will never agree that half the lines you say are cliche, are)
I will definitely take it in.
I don't know maybe advice on my form or rhymes.

Also, i can't remember who said music trends are forgotten in 40 years but that's pretty stupid
bands & popular music are only a few decades over 40 years ago
& there are many, many artists from the 60's & 70's that are remembered today.
That's a pretty silly statement and i'm not very sure on what you're actually trying to say?

I don't think whether you agree or not changes the fact that they are quite cliche.

[thespearkid]

I definitely said in my post that "I'm not there yet" so I would hate for you to think that I'm pretending
I have nothing left to learn.
I definitely need & want to get better.
What I'm saying is that i probably won't listen to those whose style is shared with you David,
Because i don't enjoy it & I personally don't find it relevant.
But i definitely want to improve,
So any advice you could give me that doesn't apply to the actual style i've chosen
('cos i will never agree that half the lines you say are cliche, are)
I will definitely take it in.
I don't know maybe advice on my form or rhymes.

Also, i can't remember who said music trends are forgotten in 40 years but that's pretty stupid
bands & popular music are only a few decades over 40 years ago
& there are many, many artists from the 60's & 70's that are remembered today.
That's a pretty silly statement and i'm not very sure on what you're actually trying to say?
The vast majority of artists from the sixties and seventies are completely forgotten. If you want to be one of the lucky bands that lasts for decades, this stuff will not fly. You'll need stuff beyond that.

[fishingthe_sky]

I definitely said in my post that "I'm not there yet" so I would hate for you to think that I'm pretending
I have nothing left to learn.
I definitely need & want to get better.
What I'm saying is that i probably won't listen to those whose style is shared with you David,
Because i don't enjoy it & I personally don't find it relevant.
But i definitely want to improve,
So any advice you could give me that doesn't apply to the actual style i've chosen
('cos i will never agree that half the lines you say are cliche, are)
I will definitely take it in.
I don't know maybe advice on my form or rhymes.

Also, i can't remember who said music trends are forgotten in 40 years but that's pretty stupid
bands & popular music are only a few decades over 40 years ago
& there are many, many artists from the 60's & 70's that are remembered today.
That's a pretty silly statement and i'm not very sure on what you're actually trying to say?
I think the first problem we have here is that you're posting songs that have already been recorded and put out to the world. This is a feedback forum, which, by definition, means you're posting stuff you want to get feedback on because it's not a finished product. This, on the other hand, is. You're not really here to have this looked at and commented on with the intention of revising this, and that defeats the purpose of this forum. I've also noticed that when your other pieces that aren't completed products have been critiqued, you're generally resistant to what people have to say, thanking them for their efforts but defending every point with a counterpoint on why the criticism is wrong. This shows that you're both stubborn and not really looking for any true critique. The form is a pretty irrelevant thing for anyone to comment on, since the style of your band is pretty straightforward, and the rhymes are rather unimportant compared to the greater issue that has been addressed (your tendency of using phrases that have become cliches within the music scene you're participating in, hackneyed forms of irony, and pseudo-clever turns of phrase). You should be listening to people who make comments on these tendencies, because these tendencies are the things that will hold you back as a writer; these days, it takes very little talent to write what you're writing, as we have a plethora of examples to choose from. What separates the run of the mill (yes, I'm talking about you) from great lyricists is that the greats pay attention to the "english-class poetics" and utilize them in their lyrics. By doing this, these people write original, clever, exciting lyrics that still manage to have the relevancy and relatablity you say you're going for (by the way, the whole claim about the poet's style, which I'm assuming you meant by referring to David's style, as lacking in soul and being unable to connect with the contemporary audience is about as idiotic as anything I've ever heard said about poetry). I'm sorry to say it, but if you're going for relevancy in any long-lasting sense, you're headed for a very short-lived existence, if only because there are bands out there doing what you're trying to do with these lyrics better (even though I believe you said you don't try to imitate Wentz in another thread, you ARE imitating the style he's made popular, albeit weakly). While you're right in saying that there are many artists from 30 and 40 years ago that are remembered, there are countless more that are not remembered, because they managed to only be relevant for a specific moment. The bands that are remembered today are the bands that did something transcendent of the relevancy of their time. And while most bands today will certain be but a footnote on a Wikipedia page in 40 years, any poet that David would happen to list as an influence will likely still be taught in schools around the world because they are still relevant and still connect with audiences.

If you truly want to improve your craft, you need to a) stop posting things that you have no intention of changing; b) start actually accepting the criticisms you get without having the compulsion to defend what you wrote and considering them in your revision process; c) reconsider your stance on "english-class poetry" and things of that sort, for your lyrics will continue to be mediocre until you realize that you cannot work inside a pop-punk lyrical bubble, and that these things are not self-contained. You're incredibly tunnel-visioned in how you view your work, and until you open your mind, you're not worth dealing with.

[The Personist]

I think the first problem we have here is that you're posting songs that have already been recorded and put out to the world. This is a feedback forum, which, by definition, means you're posting stuff you want to get feedback on because it's not a finished product. This, on the other hand, is. You're not really here to have this looked at and commented on with the intention of revising this, and that defeats the purpose of this forum. I've also noticed that when your other pieces that aren't completed products have been critiqued, you're generally resistant to what people have to say, thanking them for their efforts but defending every point with a counterpoint on why the criticism is wrong. This shows that you're both stubborn and not really looking for any true critique. The form is a pretty irrelevant thing for anyone to comment on, since the style of your band is pretty straightforward, and the rhymes are rather unimportant compared to the greater issue that has been addressed (your tendency of using phrases that have become cliches within the music scene you're participating in, hackneyed forms of irony, and pseudo-clever turns of phrase). You should be listening to people who make comments on these tendencies, because these tendencies are the things that will hold you back as a writer; these days, it takes very little talent to write what you're writing, as we have a plethora of examples to choose from. What separates the run of the mill (yes, I'm talking about you) from great lyricists is that the greats pay attention to the "english-class poetics" and utilize them in their lyrics. By doing this, these people write original, clever, exciting lyrics that still manage to have the relevancy and relatablity you say you're going for (by the way, the whole claim about the poet's style, which I'm assuming you meant by referring to David's style, as lacking in soul and being unable to connect with the contemporary audience is about as idiotic as anything I've ever heard said about poetry). I'm sorry to say it, but if you're going for relevancy in any long-lasting sense, you're headed for a very short-lived existence, if only because there are bands out there doing what you're trying to do with these lyrics better (even though I believe you said you don't try to imitate Wentz in another thread, you ARE imitating the style he's made popular, albeit weakly). While you're right in saying that there are many artists from 30 and 40 years ago that are remembered, there are countless more that are not remembered, because they managed to only be relevant for a specific moment. The bands that are remembered today are the bands that did something transcendent of the relevancy of their time. And while most bands today will certain be but a footnote on a Wikipedia page in 40 years, any poet that David would happen to list as an influence will likely still be taught in schools around the world because they are still relevant and still connect with audiences.

If you truly want to improve your craft, you need to a) stop posting things that you have no intention of changing; b) start actually accepting the criticisms you get without having the compulsion to defend what you wrote and considering them in your revision process; c) reconsider your stance on "english-class poetry" and things of that sort, for your lyrics will continue to be mediocre until you realize that you cannot work inside a pop-punk lyrical bubble, and that these things are not self-contained. You're incredibly tunnel-visioned in how you view your work, and until you open your mind, you're not worth dealing with.

This.