Karl Malone Jersey Retirement

[AshesAshes]

The jazz are gonna be retiring malones jersey not suprising but do you guys think he is the greatest pf of all time?

[weezer182]

he is probably in my top 3. he did great things for that utah organization

[bigmike]

The jazz are gonna be retiring malones jersey not suprising but do you guys think he is the greatest pf of all time?
I'd put Tim Duncan, at the least, above him right now.

[somethingyellow]

nice to do, im still disappointed he didnt win a championship with stockton

[ActorInThisPlay]

The jazz are gonna be retiring malones jersey not suprising but do you guys think he is the greatest pf of all time?
he was definitely a great PF but is missing that one thing called a Championship.

[Drew Beringer]

I'm going to the Pacers game when they are retiring Reggie's 31.

[Talib Scottie]

Top 3 for sure.

[itsjdiggity]

I went to the game when they retired Chick Hearn's jersey...Ray Allen sprained his ankle in the 1st quarter :'(

[Caleb Cattivera]

i dont even know if i could put malone in the top three, esp without a championship.

duncan, moses, cowens, thurmond, hayes, rodman...just a few i think of when great power forwards are mentioned...yes i think of malone too, but just not sure about top three.

[somethingyellow]

i dont even know if i could put malone in the top three, esp without a championship.

duncan, moses, cowens, thurmond, hayes, rodman...just a few i think of when great power forwards are mentioned...yes i think of malone too, but just not sure about top three.rodman was nowhere near the player malone was

[ActorInThisPlay]

rodman was nowhere near the player malone was
yeah Rodman was an excellent rebounder but Malone was a better all around player in my opinion.

[Caleb Cattivera]

rodman was nowhere near the player malone was

once again...five championships to zero championships. i choose rodman.

[ActorInThisPlay]

once again...five championships to zero championships. i choose rodman.
yeah but Rodman had MJ and you can't not win with MJ on your team.

[somethingyellow]

once again...five championships to zero championships. i choose rodman.:rolleyes: I'm not talking about championships. I'm talking about their individual game. Rodman's game was nowhere near Malones. I don't care how many championships Rodman has.

[weezer182]

once again...five championships to zero championships. i choose rodman.so robert horry must be one of the best power fowards then right?

[itsjdiggity]

mark madsen has championships

[Caleb Cattivera]

rodman is better than malone. that's my opinion and im sticking to it. malone was good, but rodman never needed to produce on the offensive end, he always had scorers around him. offense wins games...defense wins championshps.

[weezer182]

rodman is better than malone. that's my opinion and im sticking to it. malone was good, but rodman never needed to produce on the offensive end, he always had scorers around him. offense wins games...defense wins championshps.i know its your opinion but wow you might be the only person to think that . we are talking about basketball right not wrestling? haha

[somethingyellow]

rodman is better than malone. that's my opinion and im sticking to it. malone was good, but rodman never needed to produce on the offensive end, he always had scorers around him. offense wins games...defense wins championshps.So are you saying that great defensive players are better than great players offensively? he was a great defender but a very mediocre offensive player. I'm talking about whos a better overall player, which is hard for me to even see how anybody could see Rodman as being that. Comparing championships is not a way to compare the two. I won't even post stats since Rodman's are nowhere near Malone's.

[AshesAshes]

Malone completly outplayed rodman in the finals...Rodman was no factor in the bulls beating the jazz in the finals.He shot terrible from the line he was out rebounded by malone most of the time.Even with all that said if Malone didnt choke like he did the Jazz would of won it.They could of easily won that series in 97 if a few things went different.I would put Malone ahead of everyone but im a utah fan so yea.

[Caleb Cattivera]

So are you saying that great defensive players are better than great players offensively? he was a great defender but a very mediocre offensive player. I'm talking about whos a better overall player, which is hard for me to even see how anybody could see Rodman as being that. Comparing championships is not a way to compare the two. I won't even post stats since Rodman's are nowhere near Malone's.

on foxsports awhile back they had the top PF's of all time ranked...and according to them, rodman was #3 and malone #4...im not the only one who thinks that.

stats arent always relevant either. overall player i STILL pick rodman. if given the choice of who'd id rather have on my team, it'd be rodman.

rodman was one of the main keys to the bulls championships in the late 90s. when jordan came back in 95, despite averaging 32 ppg, 7 rpg, and 5 apg and with pippen averaging 18, 9 and 6, they were humiliated by the magic in the semis, losing 4 to 2. that forced managment to take control and bring in rodman. someone who could not only guard players at the forward position, but also at the center position. honestly, had it not been for rodman and his toughness, i dont know if the bulls would've been so great in the late 90's. jordan would've been jordan...but rodman was the deciding factor for those late bulls runs.

my laptop is dying. goodnight guys.

[Caleb Cattivera]

Malone completly outplayed rodman in the finals...Rodman was no factor in the bulls beating the jazz in the finals.He shot terrible from the line he was out rebounded by malone most of the time.Even with all that said if Malone didnt choke like he did the Jazz would of won it.They could of easily won that series in 97 if a few things went different.I would put Malone ahead of everyone but im a utah fan so yea.

IF malone didnt choke.. IF IF IF...shut up with the if's. he DID. rodman got under his skin and he choked. end of story.

[Doug]

i dont even know if i could put malone in the top three, esp without a championship.

duncan, moses, cowens, thurmond, hayes, rodman...just a few i think of when great power forwards are mentioned...yes i think of malone too, but just not sure about top three.

heinsohn

[somethingyellow]

on foxsports awhile back they had the top PF's of all time ranked...and according to them, rodman was #3 and malone #4...im not the only one who thinks that.

stats arent always relevant either. overall player i STILL pick rodman. if given the choice of who'd id rather have on my team, it'd be rodman.

rodman was one of the main keys to the bulls championships in the late 90s. when jordan came back in 95, despite averaging 32 ppg, 7 rpg, and 5 apg and with pippen averaging 18, 9 and 6, they were humiliated by the magic in the semis, losing 4 to 2. that forced managment to take control and bring in rodman. someone who could not only guard players at the forward position, but also at the center position. honestly, had it not been for rodman and his toughness, i dont know if the bulls would've been so great in the late 90's. jordan would've been jordan...but rodman was the deciding factor for those late bulls runs.

my laptop is dying. goodnight guys.i didnt see that thing on foxsports but know that malone was on the nba's top 50 greatest players and rodman wasn't. To me Rodman was just a great defensive player that is it. The only thing he was gonna give you on offensive is boards While Malone was GREAT on offense and a very solid defender. I agree stats arent always relevant, but other then championships, (which is more of a team accomplishment) Malone's individual honors are much more impressive (2 MVPS, 14 time allstar, 2nd on most points ever score, etc) Those things are hard to argue against. The man averaged a double double for his career. I know I'm not going to change your opinion, but to me malone is quite a bit better than rodman.

[bigmike]

generally i agree with caleb on these sort of things, but not about rodman > malone.
I think malone's 3rd best. I'd argue that Tim Duncan could/is the best ever.

[LPMagic]

I'd put Malone above Rodman, but to say he's better than Duncan?

[getupkid53]

Are you going to argue that Ben Wallace is not one of the great centers because he doesn't score points?.... If you want to go with the 'you need offense to be a great player' angle. I'm not even arguing for Rodman here, but defense is 10x harder to play than offense and Rodman was one of the greatest defenders in the game. Not only because of his skills, but because of the way he got into your head.

Not related to basketball skills, but rodman is a pretty kick ass guy, as weird as he is. I hate Karl Malone with a passion, almost as much as I hate John Stockton. They both seem like huge douche's.

Edit: The whole world of sports would be different if someone at some point in time hadn't choked. ehem... scott norwood.. ehem. just one of many examples.

[weezer182]

Are you going to argue that Ben Wallace is not one of the great centers because he doesn't score points?.... If you want to go with the 'you need offense to be a great player' angle. I'm not even arguing for Rodman here, but defense is 10x harder to play than offense and Rodman was one of the greatest defenders in the game. Not only because of his skills, but because of the way he got into your head.

Not related to basketball skills, but rodman is a pretty kick ass guy, as weird as he is. I hate Karl Malone with a passion, almost as much as I hate John Stockton. They both seem like huge douche's.

Edit: The whole world of sports would be different if someone at some point in time hadn't choked. ehem... scott norwood.. ehem. just one of many examples.i would argue that ben wallace is not one of the greatest centers because he doesnt score points yes. to be one of the best players you have to do everything well not just one aspect of the game. i wouldnt say defense is 10x harder to play then offense either i dont know where you get that from. the reason why there isnt as many good defenders is because people would rather concentrate on their offense of game. rodman and wallace are so great at defense because they spend so much time working on it. if every player spend a lot of time working on their defense you would see a huge improvment in defense. i dont know why you call john stockton a douche either. he is a class act

[Caleb Cattivera]

i would argue that ben wallace is not one of the greatest centers because he doesnt score points yes. to be one of the best players you have to do everything well not just one aspect of the game. i wouldnt say defense is 10x harder to play then offense either i dont know where you get that from. the reason why there isnt as many good defenders is because people would rather concentrate on their offense of game. rodman and wallace are so great at defense because they spend so much time working on it. if every player spend a lot of time working on their defense you would see a huge improvment in defense. i dont know why you call john stockton a douche either. he is a class act

and you're wrong. why would someone have to worry about offense when they're playing defense?

[weezer182]

and you're wrong. why would someone have to worry about offense when they're playing defense?im talking about in practice. so many players send time working on their offensive game, not so much defense.

[weezer182]

i usually agree with you caleb but not with this one. i think you are way off . its not even that close. im off to class and going to canada for the weekend so ill see you guys around on monday

[Caleb Cattivera]

i didnt see that thing on foxsports but know that malone was on the nba's top 50 greatest players and rodman wasn't. To me Rodman was just a great defensive player that is it. The only thing he was gonna give you on offensive is boards While Malone was GREAT on offense and a very solid defender. I agree stats arent always relevant, but other then championships, (which is more of a team accomplishment) Malone's individual honors are much more impressive (2 MVPS, 14 time allstar, 2nd on most points ever score, etc) Those things are hard to argue against. The man averaged a double double for his career. I know I'm not going to change your opinion, but to me malone is quite a bit better than rodman.

and for all those awards that malone has on offense, rodman has on defense. 8 time all defense, 2 time all nba, two years dpoy...it goes both ways.

i agree with get up kids statement about wallace, it's not just offensive production, it's about defense, how they play the game and their ability to irritate the other play, to get under the skin...

and come on, he's not even the best malone of all time.

[Caleb Cattivera]

i usually agree with you caleb but not with this one. i think you are way off . its not even that close. im off to class and going to canada for the weekend so ill see you guys around on monday

you THINK im way off.

that's your opinion so quit bitching.

[ActorInThisPlay]

yeah i have to agree with everyone else in saying Malone was an all around better PF. plus Malone bring along the baggage that Rodman did.

[Caleb Cattivera]

yeah i have to agree with everyone else in saying Malone was an all around better PF. plus Malone bring along the baggage that Rodman did.

come on matt...karl's not even the best pf ever with the last name malone!

[Drew Beringer]

once again...five championships to zero championships. i choose rodman.

Rodman never had to carry a team like Malone. He had Jordan and Pippen, he didn't have to score just rebound. Malone had to score, rebound, play D, do a lot for the Jazz. If you would pick Rodman over Malone you are crazy.

[Caleb Cattivera]

Rodman never had to carry a team like Malone. He had Jordan and Pippen, he didn't have to score just rebound. Malone had to score, rebound, play D, do a lot for the Jazz. If you would pick Rodman over Malone you are crazy.

haha and rodman was the final key to the bulls championships in the late 90s...so im not crazy, and neither is fox sports.

you're crazy because you think im wrong...no one is wrong here...it's opinion.

[Drew Beringer]

I remember when Malone and Rodman wrestled against each other on WCW.

[Caleb Cattivera]

I remember when Malone and Rodman wrestled against each other on WCW.

hahahahaha

come one...ddp/malone vs hogan/rodman...

hogan and rodman beat that ass!!!

[getupkid53]

i would argue that ben wallace is not one of the greatest centers because he doesnt score points yes. to be one of the best players you have to do everything well not just one aspect of the game. i wouldnt say defense is 10x harder to play then offense either i dont know where you get that from. the reason why there isnt as many good defenders is because people would rather concentrate on their offense of game. rodman and wallace are so great at defense because they spend so much time working on it. if every player spend a lot of time working on their defense you would see a huge improvment in defense. i dont know why you call john stockton a douche either. he is a class act

Stockton was a dirty player.. the king of handchecks.. I'll hold that till I die. Coaches always say defense wins championships... they emphasize it in practice every damn day. So, no, it's not like everybody can play defense. It's not that people just concentrate on offense..... they just can't play D. Take Wally Sczerbiak.. works his ass off on defense this year... He's just not good enough.. Defense takes foresight, quickness, and a mental agility that offense does not require. Those guys run the defense. Rodman had all those things, and he hustled like a man. Guys like Wallace and Rodman (playing wise) embody the essence of what it is to play basketball. TEAM FIRST. And I will agree with the Moses > Karl Malone statement.

[somethingyellow]

and for all those awards that malone has on offense, rodman has on defense. 8 time all defense, 2 time all nba, two years dpoy...it goes both ways.

i agree with get up kids statement about wallace, it's not just offensive production, it's about defense, how they play the game and their ability to irritate the other play, to get under the skin...

and come on, he's not even the best malone of all time. Wrong, malone has 3 year first team all defense team and another year 2nd team all defense. Rodman has absolutely no awards on offense. You guys act like Malone couldn't play any D. Bottom line Malone was the complete package who did it BOTH on offense and defense. Rodman just did it on Defense. It is pretty obvious to see imo

[Caleb Cattivera]

Wrong, malone has 3 year first team all defense team and another year 2nd team all defense. Rodman has absolutely no awards on offense. You guys act like Malone couldn't play any D. Bottom line Malone was the complete package who did it BOTH on offense and defense. Rodman just did it on Defense. It is pretty obvious to see imo

once again...offense wins games...defense wins championships...it was rodmans defensive presence that ulitmately helped the bulls to their romping of karl malone and the jazz.

rodman to me is more powerful, and a better player than malone.

[Caleb Cattivera]

also, rodman can score...

in college he averaged 26 ppg, and 16 rpg.

just didnt have to once he got to the leauge.

his early years in detroit the offense revolved around thomas, aguirre, dumars, dantley etc.

with the spurs robinson, elliot, del negro, etc.

and with the bulls of course jordan and pippen.

[getupkid53]

Wrong, malone has 3 year first team all defense team and another year 2nd team all defense. Rodman has absolutely no awards on offense. You guys act like Malone couldn't play any D. Bottom line Malone was the complete package who did it BOTH on offense and defense. Rodman just did it on Defense. It is pretty obvious to see imo

Another thing is knowing you're role. Malone played on a stacked team and they couldn't get the job done. If Malone could have formed his role better ,the Lakers could have won a championship. Rodman played on a stacked team(s), and helped them win champioships. Rodman knows (knew) exactly what he had to do to win and ALWAYS did it.

[Scott Weber]

rodman is better than malone. that's my opinion and im sticking to it. malone was good, but rodman never needed to produce on the offensive end, he always had scorers around him. offense wins games...defense wins championshps.
that's a fucking retarded argument Caleb, I will never agree with you. Rodman was a great specialty player, but he won championships because he assisted superstars around him, it's not like he carried teams on his back. Does that mean Steve Kerr is a better SG than Ray Allen? Or that Robert Horry is a better player than Nowitski? Retarded argument. Malone, even though I am not really a fan, was so much more than Rodman ever was, in all aspects of his game.

[Caleb Cattivera]

that's a fucking retarded argument Caleb, I will never agree with you. Rodman was a great specialty player, but he won championships because he assisted superstars around him, it's not like he carried teams on his back. Does that mean Steve Kerr is a better SG than Ray Allen? Or that Robert Horry is a better player than Nowitski? Retarded argument. Malone, even though I am not really a fan, was so much more than Rodman ever was, in all aspects of his game.

get defensive scott. calm down kid.

i just spoke what i feel.

if that's what you think, stick with it, i just feel rodman is a better player and someone id rather have on my team.

take a deep breath.

[Scott Weber]

get defensive scott. calm down kid.

i just spoke what i feel.

if that's what you think, stick with it, i just feel rodman is a better player and someone id rather have on my team.

take a deep breath.
This is the sports forum, we're here to debate, and you're seriously telling ME to calm down? coming from the guy who banned somebody for disagreeing with him? Haha. Alright man. You get more heated in here than anybody else, you're the one always telling me to check out a thread because you're seriously getting so pissed off. Good response to the claims by the way...it's obvious you made a statement you can't back up so now you're turning it into an opinion war. you might want rodman on your team, but only if you had other great players around him. Rodman's just about the best role PF in the game, but he's not a star, he can't carry a team, and I don't care how many points he scored at Southeastern Oklahoma State (lol, I can't believe you pulled that out as an argument for how he could score...), he can't score in the NBA, if you ever watched him play, you'd know that he had zero range and got 80% of his points from offensive rebounds and from FT shooting (which was dismal in it's own respects). If I'm starting a team of NBA greats, I don't take Rodman in the 1st or 2nd round because you can't build a team around him.

[Caleb Cattivera]

ok i admit defeat. at least i got getupkids to side with me.

i just fucking hate karl malone.

scott 3 caleb 0.

damn.

[Scott Weber]

haha no worries. I saw you were backing yourself into a corner anyways. Trust me, I fucking HATE malone too.

[Caleb Cattivera]

haha no worries. I saw you were backing yourself into a corner anyways. Trust me, I fucking HATE malone too.

hahahha. yeah, weezer and something yellow got me.

i was diggin a hole.

but hey, at least rodman beat malone in wrestling...

NWO 4 LIFE!

[Scott Weber]

I loved WCW when i was in jr. high.

[AshesAshes]

IF malone didnt choke.. IF IF IF...shut up with the if's. he DID. rodman got under his skin and he choked. end of story.
Malone out played rodman I wouldnt say rodman got under his skin.


I also remember scottie pippen saying "The Mailman doesnt deliver on sundays"

But if I remember right your a bulls fan caleb??and im a jazz fan..so yea I could see why you put rodman ahead of malone.

[AshesAshes]

I loved WCW when i was in jr. high.
The fall brawl when the nwo took on the four horsemen and Sting told them to shove it was classic.

[AshesAshes]

Stockton was a dirty player.. the king of handchecks.. I'll hold that till I die. Coaches always say defense wins championships... they emphasize it in practice every damn day. So, no, it's not like everybody can play defense. It's not that people just concentrate on offense..... they just can't play D. Take Wally Sczerbiak.. works his ass off on defense this year... He's just not good enough.. Defense takes foresight, quickness, and a mental agility that offense does not require. Those guys run the defense. Rodman had all those things, and he hustled like a man. Guys like Wallace and Rodman (playing wise) embody the essence of what it is to play basketball. TEAM FIRST. And I will agree with the Moses > Karl Malone statement.
Haha,Stockton a dirty player oh boy.

[mikeford]

kevin mchale was better.

[somethingyellow]

hahahha. yeah, weezer and something yellow got me.

i was diggin a hole.

but hey, at least rodman beat malone in wrestling...

NWO 4 LIFE!haha i love hearing those words ;)

[getupkid53]

ok i admit defeat. at least i got getupkids to side with me.

i just fucking hate karl malone.

scott 3 caleb 0.

damn.

Woah, leave me out of this.. I was just playing devil's advocate and trying to help present your side of the story. It's always hard when its 15 on 1. I figured there was no point in saying what they had said, just trying to bring some more validity to your argument. and we're both bears / bulls fans. :D

[ActorInThisPlay]

come on matt...karl's not even the best pf ever with the last name malone!
haha I didn't say he was the best PF ever, simply that he was better all around then Rodman was. He is missing one key element that Rodman has plenty of though and that is a Championship. You can't be considered the best unless you have one in my opinion.