Wayne Gretzky knew about gambling ring

[kg00d]

His phone was tapped and a conversation was recorded between him a Tocchet. It's not known yet if he bet, I doubt he did but if he did this would put a big cloud on the nhl image and his image would be ruined. All speculation as of right now.

His wife is suppose to make a statement today regarding her involvement in operation slapshot.

[Drew Beringer]

Wow, if true, his image and reputation is tarnished.

[yeat182]

this is pretty huge story.

[dontgrabtindy]

this is not good at all for the nhl they cant afford any more negatives

[kg00d]

Ya this can be bad. It's not clear yet if he made bets. He's not a dumb guy so i'd have to say he didn't but we'll know more after as for the rest of this story i believe that tocchet just bet on other sports which i dont find wrong but being associated with the nhl you can't do that kind of stuff. These guys aren't even allowed to play a poker game for $ on the back of there flight during a roadtrip or w/e.

[yeat182]

Ya this can be bad. It's not clear yet if he made bets. He's not a dumb guy so i'd have to say he didn't but we'll know more after as for the rest of this story i believe that tocchet just bet on other sports which i dont find wrong but being associated with the nhl you can't do that kind of stuff. These guys aren't even allowed to play a poker game for $ on the back of there flight during a roadtrip or w/e.

betting on sports is illegal, so it is wrong. doesn't matter if its on the NHL or not, although betting on the sport you are involved in is worse.

a thing i just heard brought up on the radio is that if Gretzky still owns part of the team and is found guilty and the government seizes his assets, they may end up being part owner of the coyotes.

[kg00d]

betting on sports is illegal, so it is wrong. doesn't matter if its on the NHL or not, although betting on the sport you are involved in is worse.

a thing i just heard brought up on the radio is that if Gretzky still owns part of the team and is found guilty and the government seizes his assets, they may end up being part owner of the coyotes.

That is bad, i just dont see it in him to be betting tho so im sure this will all turn out ok when the facts are presented.

[splitsecond]

betting on sports is illegal, so it is wrong. doesn't matter if its on the NHL or not, although betting on the sport you are involved in is worse.

a thing i just heard brought up on the radio is that if Gretzky still owns part of the team and is found guilty and the government seizes his assets, they may end up being part owner of the coyotes.

Well let me explain this, since I did asset forfeiture for the government all summer. The way it works is that the seized assets (in this case his shares in the team) must be used to help propogate the crime they are being seized for. They would have to show somehow that Gretzky used the team to run the illegal betting ring, and I doubt, even if he know, or even if he placed a bet from his own office, that they could make this connection. I honestly am not even sure how you would link a crime to partial ownership in a team, because wtf is the team anyways? Its not the facilities or the stadium, so I dont know.

[yeat182]

Well let me explain this, since I did asset forfeiture for the government all summer. The way it works is that the seized assets (in this case his shares in the team) must be used to help propogate the crime they are being seized for. They would have to show somehow that Gretzky used the team to run the illegal betting ring, and I doubt, even if he know, or even if he placed a bet from his own office, that they could make this connection. I honestly am not even sure how you would link a crime to partial ownership in a team, because wtf is the team anyways? Its not the facilities or the stadium, so I dont know.

well, would the money he earns as part of his ownership, that is subsequently used to bet illegally, be considered assets used to propogate the crime? they were talking about seizing it under federal RICO statutes so would that change things?

[yeat182]

That is bad, i just dont see it in him to be betting tho so im sure this will all turn out ok when the facts are presented.

his wife, and his best friend are involved, so its almost impossible to believe that he wasn't in some way involved. maybe he didn't place bets, but he certainly had to have known about it.

[splitsecond]

well, would the money he earns as part of his ownership, that is subsequently used to bet illegally, be considered assets used to propogate the crime? they were talking about seizing it under federal RICO statutes so would that change things?

I am talking about RICO. Any money he uses to bet illegally can be seized under RICO, but not the source unless the source is somehow directly involved. That would be like seizing your boss because you used your paycheck to fund a drug ring.

It is possible that they find some sort of connection, but I am not sure how they would do it, being as owning the team is essentially an investment, and really is separate from his duties as coach, etc.

[yeat182]

I am talking about RICO. Any money he uses to bet illegally can be seized under RICO, but not the source unless the source is somehow directly involved. That would be like seizing your boss because you used your paycheck to fund a drug ring.

It is possible that they find some sort of connection, but I am not sure how they would do it, being as owning the team is essentially an investment, and really is separate from his duties as coach, etc.

so, if you owned your own business, and you got busted for gambling, they couldn't touch your business unless that business was directly involved?

[FondestMemory]

this is why the nfl is so paranoid about anything involving gambling and why they'd never put a team in vegas. just imagine, as big as this story is, how much bigger it'd be if it were the nfl.

this is bad. real bad. definitely not what hockey needed.

[yeat182]

this is why the nfl is so paranoid about anything involving gambling and why they'd never put a team in vegas. just imagine, as big as this story is, how much bigger it'd be if it were the nfl.

this is bad. real bad. definitely not what hockey needed.

if you are in the NFL you aren't allowed to bet on any sports while in vegas (the only place where it's legal), however, the other sports do allow you to bet on other sports, while in vegas. i totally agree with you, there will never be a team in Vegas.

[kg00d]

his wife, and his best friend are involved, so its almost impossible to believe that he wasn't in some way involved. maybe he didn't place bets, but he certainly had to have known about it.

Ya thats the point of this whole thread, he did know about it.

[mikeford]

wayne gretzky went down

[weezer182]

Wow, if true, his image and reputation is tarnished.not if he wasnt involved in it.

[rcrook]

this still doesn't take away the fact that the man is the best player to ever play the game

[dai the flu]

That is bad, i just dont see it in him to be betting tho so im sure this will all turn out ok when the facts are presented.

i didnt know members of the A.P. board knew him personally enough to vouch for his strength of character.

[bigmike]

if it comes out he's involved in this gambling ring, this will be 100x bigger than anything pete rose/michael jordan did. this story is fucking big.

[yeat182]

if it comes out he's involved in this gambling ring, this will be 100x bigger than anything pete rose/michael jordan did. this story is fucking big.

pete rose bet on baseball, and on games his team was playing, that bigger. thats pretty big.

[kg00d]

i didnt know members of the A.P. board knew him personally enough to vouch for his strength of character.

Why would you make some wise ass comment like that? I'm basing my opinion on everything I've witnessed from the guy the past 15 years that I can remember.

[leafsacc]

pete rose bet on baseball, and on games his team was playing, that bigger. thats pretty big.

I don't see this terribly tarnishing his reputation, it didn't involve hockey, and there are crimes he could have committed which would have been a lot worse. This does not even begin to approach the Pete Rose situation, I think Micheal Jordan's gambling habits would be a good comparison, and that didn't really affect his image.

[mikeford]

super mario is the greatest of all time anyway.

[apoemtothedead]

Bush was right, we are taking out the bad guys with the phone tapping.

[kg00d]

super mario is the greatest of all time anyway.

Now thats a debate that would go on forever.

[wessa]

if it comes out he's involved in this gambling ring, this will be 100x bigger than anything pete rose/michael jordan did. this story is fucking big.


No, thats wrong, pete rose bet on the game he was playing, if gretzky bet, which i highly doubt he did, it was on other sports, jordan was known for his gambling, but i dont think it was sports related, it was casino games, i also thought he was in a scandal where he cheated on his wife (i may be totally wrong and may be confusing him with every other basketball player) but if that is true, that has been totally forgotten, i see this situation affecting gretzky's rep as much as those situations affected jordan's, which has not really been affected

[wessa]

super mario is the greatest of all time anyway.

why did you have to say that, i am trying very hard not to turn this into an argument, but he's not called the great one for nothing, im pretty sure he has around 60 scoring records, enough said, and please don't use mario being away from the game for him having less points, gretzky has a better point per game average

[aminorthreat55]

why did you have to say that, i am trying very hard not to turn this into an argument, but he's not called the great one for nothing, im pretty sure he has around 60 scoring records, enough said, and please don't use mario being away from the game for him having less points, gretzky has a better point per game average
I completely demolished this theory of Gretkzy being so much better than Lemieux in another thread, don't make me resurrect it.

[wessa]

I completely demolished this theory of Gretkzy being so much better than Lemieux in another thread, don't make me resurrect it.

I never said that Gretzky was "so much" better than lemiuex, i think gretzky is the best offensive player of all time, lemieux would be my number two, ill throw in mike bossy at number three to stick with my home team

if you tell me what the name of the thread is, i'd like to read your points

[aminorthreat55]

I never said that Gretzky was "so much" better than lemiuex, i think gretzky is the best offensive player of all time, lemieux would be my number two, ill throw in mike bossy at number three to stick with my home team

if you tell me what the name of the thread is, i'd like to read your points
I'll find it tomorrow when I'm not drunk and can therefore properly use the search function. My main points were that in terms of points, if you assume they played the same number of games in their career, and used their actual points per game amounts, Lemieux would actually be within 50 points of Gretkzy all-time, which you could easily say that gap was affected by Lemieux's inability to perform to his full potential due to Hodgkin's, back injuries, and his other severe, non-wear and tear injuries that don't occur for most hockey players. Also that Gretkzy had better teams and line-mates for longer time periods than Lemieux. Then my other point was Lemieux's size allowed him to be a better all-around player due to his physical presence (he was 4 inches taller than Gretzky). And maybe there were a few other things.

[bigmike]

pete rose bet on baseball, and on games his team was playing, that bigger. thats pretty big.
yes, pete rose's is bigger because he bet on baseball, so i do take back my original comment.
That said, this is the last person the nhl needed to bring bad pub. about the nhl.

[bigmike]

I'll find it tomorrow when I'm not drunk and can therefore properly use the search function. My main points were that in terms of points, if you assume they played the same number of games in their career, and used their actual points per game amounts, Lemieux would actually be within 50 points of Gretkzy all-time, which you could easily say that gap was affected by Lemieux's inability to perform to his full potential due to Hodgkin's, back injuries, and his other severe, non-wear and tear injuries that don't occur for most hockey players. Also that Gretkzy had better teams and line-mates for longer time periods than Lemieux. Then my other point was Lemieux's size allowed him to be a better all-around player due to his physical presence (he was 4 inches taller than Gretzky). And maybe there were a few other things.
I love lemieux. He's amazing. but this whole "if they played the same number of games" blah blah blah stuff to me isn't valid. sure they have similar point-per-game numbers, but lemieux didn't play as many games so he doesn't have as many points. thus he's not the greatest of all time. does that mean he's not the most TALENTED of all time? no, because i think he is. but numbers wise, he's not better than wayne gretzky.

[Darren McLeod]

Gretzky is better. He's in a class of his own, and Lemieux, while great and close, can't touch him. I'm sorry.

Anyways, this whole thing is ridiculous. Even if Gretzky "knew" about it (which he probably didn't), what's he supposed to do? Call up the cops and say "Hey, my buddy Rick Tocchet is involved in a gambling ring," making them all look bad?

[bigmike]

Gretzky is better. He's in a class of his own, and Lemieux, while great and close, can't touch him. I'm sorry.

Anyways, this whole thing is ridiculous. Even if Gretzky "knew" about it (which he probably didn't), what's he supposed to do? Call up the cops and say "Hey, my buddy Rick Tocchet is involved in a gambling ring," making them all look bad?
so, he's completely oblivious to his wife gambling $500,000 or his best friend being involved in a gambling ring? i find that hard to believe.

[yeat182]

super mario is the greatest of all time anyway.

better than Bobby Orr? thats blasphemy.

[yeat182]

so, he's completely oblivious to his wife gambling $500,000 or his best friend being involved in a gambling ring? i find that hard to believe.

i highly doubit it was his wifes money, i'm sure some of it was, but i would be almost certain that she was taking money from other people to place bets. they mentioned that there are some NHL players involved, maybe an owner, and some people from hollywood, so she was probably a middle man for other gamblers.

[ActorInThisPlay]

yeah this is pretty big but he said he didn't gamble at all and made that very clear in his statement on ESPN. He didn't bet and even if he did know something, then he wasn't going to rat out his wife and best friends. This is sort of being blown out of proportion for Gretzky, they should really be focusing on the people who were actually to blame for this.

[yeat182]

yeah this is pretty big but he said he didn't gamble at all and made that very clear in his statement on ESPN. He didn't bet and even if he did know something, then he wasn't going to rat out his wife and best friends. This is sort of being blown out of proportion for Gretzky, they should really be focusing on the people who were actually to blame for this.

just because he said he didn't do it, doesn't make it true. believe me i hope he's innocent, but it gets harder and harder to believe him with everything that is coming out.

[weezer182]

i hope he had nothing to do with it

[weezer182]

Gretzky is better. He's in a class of his own, and Lemieux, while great and close, can't touch him. I'm sorry.

Anyways, this whole thing is ridiculous. Even if Gretzky "knew" about it (which he probably didn't), what's he supposed to do? Call up the cops and say "Hey, my buddy Rick Tocchet is involved in a gambling ring," making them all look bad?i agree its not like he is going to turn is wife in and bring all this negative attention towards him

[kg00d]

Gretzky is better. He's in a class of his own, and Lemieux, while great and close, can't touch him. I'm sorry.

Anyways, this whole thing is ridiculous. Even if Gretzky "knew" about it (which he probably didn't), what's he supposed to do? Call up the cops and say "Hey, my buddy Rick Tocchet is involved in a gambling ring," making them all look bad?
Its known now that he knew about it. On tuesday he said he didn't, he got caught in a lie bid deal imo. Hes trying to protect his wife, is there anything wrong with that? No. A husband trying to protect his wife, what a concept that is. I'm glad that he is gonna be with Team Canada at the olympics because he should be and his wife should be by his side like she was in the 02 olympics.

[dai the flu]

more bad news for pittsburgh fans, from what i hear, mark recchi and john leclair have sought legal counsel in regards to this. looks like they were involved.

[kg00d]

more bad news for pittsburgh fans, from what i hear, mark recchi and john leclair have sought legal counsel in regards to this. looks like they were involved.


Ya it was said unidentified players around the league hired counsel in regards to this.

[bigmike]

i highly doubit it was his wifes money, i'm sure some of it was, but i would be almost certain that she was taking money from other people to place bets. they mentioned that there are some NHL players involved, maybe an owner, and some people from hollywood, so she was probably a middle man for other gamblers.
i know. but for gretzky to make it seem like he's oblivious to anything of what his wife's doing is ridiculous. plus, he's even apparently been recorded on a wire tap asking tocchet how his wife can avoid being implicated before this whole thing was made public.

[yeat182]

i know. but for gretzky to make it seem like he's oblivious to anything of what his wife's doing is ridiculous. plus, he's even apparently been recorded on a wire tap asking tocchet how his wife can avoid being implicated before this whole thing was made public.

the wire tap is from last week, so its not out of the realm of possibilty that he just found out about it, especially if tocchet or the NJ cop thought they were under suspicion.

[bigmike]

the wire tap is from last week, so its not out of the realm of possibilty that he just found out about it, especially if tocchet or the NJ cop thought they were under suspicion.
but, the day it broke he still implied that he was oblivious to his wife's involvment.

[yeat182]

but, the day it broke he still implied that he was oblivious to his wife's involvment.

yeah, but that doesn't surprise me. he probably hadn't talked to a lawyer at that point and didn't want to say anything that would incriminate him or his wife. if you heard his last statement he sounded like he had been told what to say.

it's very suspicious, i don't know if he's involved or not. its hard to believe that his wife and best friend are and he is not, but at the same time people cheat on their husbands and wives all the time without the other one knowing about it. it will be interesting to see what happens.

[bigmike]

yeah, but that doesn't surprise me. he probably hadn't talked to a lawyer at that point and didn't want to say anything that would incriminate him or his wife. if you heard his last statement he sounded like he had been told what to say.

it's very suspicious, i don't know if he's involved or not. its hard to believe that his wife and best friend are and he is not, but at the same time people cheat on their husbands and wives all the time without the other one knowing about it. it will be interesting to see what happens.
yeah, all valid points.
I hope he's not involved, i really really do.
If not for the fact that he's such an icon to the sport, for the simple fact that this is another thing people can poke fun at the nhl for which is shitty considering how good of a product they're now putting on the ice. but no one focuses on that.

[histrionics22]

Gretzky is better. He's in a class of his own, and Lemieux, while great and close, can't touch him. I'm sorry.

Anyways, this whole thing is ridiculous. Even if Gretzky "knew" about it (which he probably didn't), what's he supposed to do? Call up the cops and say "Hey, my buddy Rick Tocchet is involved in a gambling ring," making them all look bad?

You mean to tell me he didn't know his wife and his assistant coach were involved in gambling his money. Ridiculous. He had to know. I can see him not knowing his assistant was involved in illegal gambling. But once his wife was involved, it all points back to Gretzky.

[splitsecond]

so, if you owned your own business, and you got busted for gambling, they couldn't touch your business unless that business was directly involved?

Directly in some fashion, even if it was just me neglecting to watch my employees and they were the ones running the gambling ring. Basically the whole point behind RICO is to disable the funding and facilitation of the crimes it encompasses. In this case, I can't see how the being a part owner of the Coyotes had anything to do with the gambling ring.

[aminorthreat55]

more bad news for pittsburgh fans, from what i hear, mark recchi and john leclair have sought legal counsel in regards to this. looks like they were involved.
Tocchet and those 2 go waaaay back.

[bigmike]

my money's on roenick and/or lindros being involved.