controversial opinion re: college basketball

[Doug]

college basketball sucks.

try driving the ball to the hoop once in awhile and don't pass the ball around for 35 seconds to take a fake three pointer.

also, i forget, where did kobe bryant, kevin garnett, lebron james, tracy mcgrady, jermaine o'neal and dwight howard go to college?

stop making threads about this shitty fake basketball, you are making me uninterested in the sports forum.

[itsjdiggity]

i hate it but i can see why people like it

[mikeford]

at the very least confine this bullshit to one thread. otherwise im just going to make a thread for every goddamn hockey game every day to compete with this ***gotry.

[bigmike]

college basketball sucks.

try driving the ball to the hoop once in awhile and don't pass the ball around for 35 seconds to take a fake three pointer.

also, i forget, where did kobe bryant, kevin garnett, lebron james, tracy mcgrady, jermaine o'neal and dwight howard go to college?

stop making threads about this shitty fake basketball, you are making me uninterested in the sports forum.
not the same place tim duncan, shaq, AI, chauncey, gilbert arenas, paul pierce, delonte west, jameer nelson, jason kidd, dwayne wade, carmelo, chris bosh, ray allen, michael redd, elton brand, jason richardson, baron davis, steve nash, ben gordon, chris paul, cuttino mobley, brad miller, or morris peterson.
but lets ignore the fact that 39 of the top 50 scorers in the league went to college.
or the fact that 38 of the top 50 rebounders went to college.
or the fact that 36 of the top 50 in FG% went to college.
or the fact that 41 of the top 50 assist men went to college.
or the fact that 41 of the top 50 FT shooters went to college.

but the college game is so bad because they're young kids that play because they're on scholarship instead of millions of dollars and are learning the game instead of going to the NBA and flopping like all the flops that get drafted out of high school. for each kid you listed, there's 3 that don't make an impact (jonathan bender, anyone?).

[bigmike]

at the very least confine this bullshit to one thread. otherwise im just going to make a thread for every goddamn hockey game every day to compete with this ***gotry.
i will say, though, there are WAY too many college bball threads. I agree there.

[itsjdiggity]

not the same place tim duncan, shaq, AI, chauncey, gilbert arenas, paul pierce, delonte west, jameer nelson, jason kidd, dwayne wade, carmelo, chris bosh, ray allen, michael redd, elton brand, jason richardson, baron davis, steve nash, ben gordon, chris paul, cuttino mobley, brad miller, or morris peterson.
but lets ignore the fact that 39 of the top 50 scorers in the league went to college.
or the fact that 38 of the top 50 rebounders went to college.
or the fact that 36 of the top 50 in FG% went to college.
or the fact that 41 of the top 50 assist men went to college.
or the fact that 41 of the top 50 FT shooters went to college.

but the college game is so bad because they're young kids that play because they're on scholarship instead of millions of dollars and are learning the game instead of going to the NBA and flopping like all the flops that get drafted out of high school. for each kid you listed, there's 3 that don't make an impact (jonathan bender, anyone?).

ran out of guys?

[mikeford]

so... i mean, how hard did you laugh when you put cuttino mobley in that group of people? just wondering.

[bigmike]

ran out of guys?
haha, no, he was on the list i was cheating off of.

[somethingyellow]

I dont see the big problem with making these threads. We see tons of boston threads from you and mikeford. But i do try to keep it in the ncaa forum unless there is a thread about that game

[bigmike]

so... i mean, how hard did you laugh when you put cuttino mobley in that group of people? just wondering.
i chuckled. but he was, again, on the list i was cheating off (Which was basically the top 50 guys in the 'scoring average' category on nba.com)

[mikeford]

I dont see the big problem with making these threads. We see tons of boston threads from you and mikeford. But i do try to keep it in the ncaa forum unless there is a thread about that game

yeah, youre right. me and doug often FILL the front page of the forum with threads about boston. on almost a daily basis even. yup, definitely an equal volume at the very least.

[bigmike]

yeah, youre right. me and doug often FILL the front page of the forum with threads about boston. on almost a daily basis even. yup, definitely an equal volume at the very least.
you didn't know? having two (2) threads that contain the words "boston", "doug", and/or "mikeford", or threads that pertain to anything related to the boston sports scene, is against sports forum rules.

[somethingyellow]

yeah, youre right. me and doug often FILL the front page of the forum with threads about boston. on almost a daily basis even. yup, definitely an equal volume at the very least.I didnt think that college basketball threads were taking over that much. Maybe some should be put more into the ncaa thread, you're right. But then again i could say that to most threads made including some of yours

[mikeford]

I didnt think that college basketball threads were taking over that much. Maybe some should be put more into the ncaa thread, you're right. But then again i could say that to most threads made including some of yours

not currently, but im willing to bet on saturday, at least half the first page of the board was college basketball threads.

[bigmike]

I didnt think that college basketball threads were taking over that much. Maybe some should be put more into the ncaa thread, you're right. But then again i could say that to most threads made including some of yours
i think, though, there are alot of threads about games, players, which conference is better, etc... and it's getting excessive. but the same thing happened around the super bowl, when we had 781 seperate superbowl thread and another thread for each and every article written about the game, pittsburgh, or the seahawks. the ncaa b-ball threads will die down after march madness is done.

[somethingyellow]

not currently, but im willing to bet on saturday, at least half the first page of the board was college basketball threads.which could have been said when football season was going as well, and there was an nfl thread

[mikeford]

yeah but football isnt totally gay like college basketball.

[itsjdiggity]

yeah but football isnt totally gay like college basketball.

this combined with your user title and your sig = gold

[bigmike]

yeah but football isnt totally gay like college basketball.
haha.

[Doug]

basically i'm sick of going to the forum, and having the only threads bolded be about some stupid college basketball game or conference.

[somethingyellow]

yeah but football isnt totally gay like college basketball.so you think. Im not much of a football fan at all and much rather prefer to watch college basketball. Still threads are gonna get made no matter if any of us like it

[somethingyellow]

basically i'm sick of going to the forum, and having the only threads bolded be about some stupid college basketball game or conference.it will all be over in a month for you then

[bigmike]

basically i'm sick of going to the forum, and having the only threads bolded be about some stupid college basketball game or conference.
i love college basketball, but i see, and agree with your point that there are too many threads for one sport, at one time.

[Doug]

it will all be over in a month for you then

and then i can own everyone on baseball threads

[mikeford]

everyone sucks but tom brady. give all your love to tom.

[bigmike]

i'm definitely hoping that not all the baseball threads become boston/new york (mets or yankees) related. that'll suck.

[somethingyellow]

i'm definitely hoping that not all the baseball threads become boston/new york (mets or yankees) related. that'll suck.haha since there are alot of ny and boston people on these boards i would bet on that

[mikeford]

pfft. no one cares about the mets.

[bigmike]

haha since there are alot of ny and boston people on these boards i would bet on that
yeah. i'm sure it will. which is fine I guess. I mean, i'd probably make tons of threads if Detroit didn't suck.

[mikeford]

at least you guys got magglio ordonez.

oh wait.
im sorry.

[bigmike]

at least you guys got magglio ordonez.

oh wait.
im sorry.
haha. yeah, we've got nothing besides jeremy bonderman going for us. and we need to deal pudge.

[justinevans]

College basketball is more exciting than the NBA. They actually play for something more than their next contract. There is no pride in the NBA anymore. No real rivalries.

[LeftWideOpen]

College basketball is more exciting than the NBA. They actually play for something more than their next contract. There is no pride in the NBA anymore. No real rivalries.

yeah, it's a matter of personal opinion. if i'm going to read a thread about whether or not Alex English was better than Dominique Wilkins, I don't feel bad making a thread about whether or not a conference is better then another. I personally loathe most of the players in the NBA and the only reason I stay somewhat interested is because of loyalty towards the Celtics. Good luck getting me to watch Lebron James play Allen Iverson on a Saturday afternoon though.

It's getting down to the end of the year so it's getting intense and more threads are being made. There's about 6 months of this to come w/ baseball, so you can deal with college bball for a few more weeks.

I will say though, the game threads are excessive. But, that always tends to be started by a Duke fan ..

[justinevans]

yeah, it's a matter of personal opinion. if i'm going to read a thread about whether or not Alex English was better than Dominique Wilkins, I don't feel bad making a thread about whether or not a conference is better then another. I personally loathe most of the players in the NBA and the only reason I stay somewhat interested is because of loyalty towards the Celtics. Good luck getting me to watch Lebron James play Allen Iverson on a Saturday afternoon though.

It's getting down to the end of the year so it's getting intense and more threads are being made. There's about 6 months of this to come w/ baseball, so you can deal with college bball for a few more weeks.

I will say though, the game threads are excessive. But, that always tends to be started by a Duke fan ..


Yeah we should just have a thread for all the nights games.

[wessa]

college basketball sucks.

try driving the ball to the hoop once in awhile and don't pass the ball around for 35 seconds to take a fake three pointer.

also, i forget, where did kobe bryant, kevin garnett, lebron james, tracy mcgrady, jermaine o'neal and dwight howard go to college?

stop making threads about this shitty fake basketball, you are making me uninterested in the sports forum.

has anyone brought up the fact that he says he hates college bball but has a picture in his sig of college bball with the caption "emerson basketball!"

[LeftWideOpen]

has anyone brought up the fact that he says he hates college bball but has a picture in his sig of college bball with the caption "emerson basketball!"

...you just answered your own question on why he hates college basketball. it's emerson. nothing kills spirit more than a mediocre D3 team.

[G-Unit]

shut up bitch

[sweethypocrisy]

Making threads about how there are too many college basket ball threads isnt going to help the problem. if you dont like the thread, dont open it.

ps college bball>NBA

[Talib Scottie]

Ncaa > Nba

[Caleb Cattivera]

after reading this. ive decided that im going to start cleaning up alot of threads, for instance, we can have official game threads, but dont make a seperate thread about a certain player for that team, keep it in that team thread. same goes for nba, baseball, football, whatever. this forums getting too cluttered.

[sweethypocrisy]

after reading this. ive decided that im going to start cleaning up alot of threads, for instance, we can have official game threads, but dont make a seperate thread about a certain player for that team, keep it in that team thread. same goes for nba, baseball, football, whatever. this forums getting too cluttered.
good deal.

[Talib Scottie]

after reading this. ive decided that im going to start cleaning up alot of threads, for instance, we can have official game threads, but dont make a seperate thread about a certain player for that team, keep it in that team thread. same goes for nba, baseball, football, whatever. this forums getting too cluttered.Yeah I thought we were going to get a thread for each Duke player for a minute there

[LeftWideOpen]

after reading this. ive decided that im going to start cleaning up alot of threads, for instance, we can have official game threads, but dont make a seperate thread about a certain player for that team, keep it in that team thread. same goes for nba, baseball, football, whatever. this forums getting too cluttered.

caleb, can we get a sticky on the MLB Discussion Thread? If the Major League Lacrosse League and the Champions League gets one, I think the baseball one deserves it haha. That thread will be huge once the season starts and it will eliminate a lot of pointless threads about the game.

[somethingyellow]

caleb, can we get a sticky on the MLB Discussion Thread? If the Major League Lacrosse League and the Champions League gets one, I think the baseball one deserves it haha. That thread will be huge once the season starts and it will eliminate a lot of pointless threads about the game.it will only be a matter of time before it gets one

[Caleb Cattivera]

i shall start it now.

[LeftWideOpen]

i shall start it now.

thanks dude.

[Scott Weber]

this thread is so stupid. nobody is even providing a good argument for why the NBA is better. college basketball is so much more exciting than the NBA. The games are shorter, the players are more human, the fans are better, it's about pride, not money, and it's where the most unlikely heroes arise. (bryce drew, anyone?) These players work so hard, they go to school, they do homework on the road, they practice, and they play for thousands of people, and they don't get paid a dime. College teams actually run plays, they focus on teamwork. The NBA is so bad to watch sometimes because with only 24 seconds on the shot clock, half the possesions end up with some sort of 1 on 1 isolation while everyone else just stands around. There are very little true heroes in the NBA. Of course they're competetive, but it's just not the same. It's not the same as playing against an in-state rival. It's not the same as playing in front of a 2,000 fan student section that is screaming so loud it shakes the arena "Shave your moustache" (Adam Morrison). When you watch college ball, you see players you went to high school with, or somebody you have a class with. The NBA is so commercialized, driven by huge money contracts, big endorsement deals, and players not giving it 100% every night. When you watch college ball, there isn't a future in basketball for 95% of those players. They've got 4 years left in their careers, and they're out there to give it all they've got. The NBA is full of players just playing until their next paycheck.

[preppyak]

not currently, but im willing to bet on saturday, at least half the first page of the board was college basketball threads.
and there weren't about 10 Super Bowl threads in the 2 weeks coming up to it. It was just sad how many their were. I know there were some retarded threads like "Big 10 >Big East", but I'd say the same thing about any baseball thread that you said to college basketball, just becuase I hate watching baseball.

I mean, do I give a fuck if some guy was traded to another team, not at all, I just look over the thread

Actually, let's look at the main page, in the NFL offseason, there are about 10 threads on people being cut/labor talks, etc. There is this thread, the POTY thread, and the actual NCAA thread. When college basketball is in the most crucial point of it's season, there's 3 times as many NFL threads

basically i'm sick of going to the forum, and having the only threads bolded be about some stupid college basketball game or conference.
It's college basketball season. You don't think I am going to hate June through August becuase it's just stupid fucking baseball threads to me.

God, shut the hell up

[mikeford]

if you hate baseball, you should probably leave this country.


college basketball is BORING basketball. i dont care if the players take it extra seriously or whatever the hell your argument is... the actual basketball being played is boring. i watched the duke/unc game hoping to see jj lose at home. how many fucking fake three pointers did duke jack up? plus no one can hit free throws in college, the possession arrow is stupid, and i dont know where you went to high school but aint no one from OA playing D1 ball.

move that goddamn fake three line back to the ACTUAL length and then i might care.

i leave you with bob ryan's column from the boston globe, last year after the tournament.

HIS 3-POINTER IS AN EASY TARGET Boston Globe, The (MA)
March 29, 2005
Author: BOB RYAN
Estimated printed pages: 4
http://images.newsbank.com.proxy.emerson.e du/infoweb/agg/shim.gif
Was this past weekend of NCAA Tournament basketball a supreme athletic treat? Yes.

Are we possibly watching the greatest NCAA Tournament ever? Yes, that is entirely possible.
Why, then, am I not 100 percent ecstatic about what's been going on? After all, I have been infatuated with the NCAA Tournament since I was about 8 years old, and I just said I believe we may be watching the most competitive and most riveting tournament we've ever known.

Start with this: You know the great deliberation in the Michigan State-Kentucky game over whether the shot Kentucky's Patrick Sparks made at the end of regulation was a three or a two? It's a question that never should have been asked. In a better college basketball world, the game should have been over. It should have been a 2-point shot, and that's that.

I say that because no shot taken from the spot where Sparks launched the ball should ever be a 3-pointer. In the college game, the 3-point arc touches the top of the key. That's preposterous! No shot from a spot that touches the top of the key should be worth 3 points. The dirty little secret of college basketball is that the 3-point line is becoming more and more of a farce. The distance is just too short. The reward is not commensurate with the achievement, and games are totally distorted as a result.

College basketball has gone 3-point crazy, sometimes to the exclusion of all other forms of play. Post play? Pull-up jumpers? Artful drives? Hah. Drive and dish, drive and dish, drive and dish. More and more teams have one theme: bombs away.

Whether there should even be a 3-pointer is something I'll address in a minute, but first may we at least agree on one important issue? At 19 feet 9 inches, the college 3-pointer offers a minimal challenge. If we must have the three, at least make it a challenging shot. Adopt the NBA three (23 feet 9 inches). Right now, it's a joke.

Here's a test I've been offering people for years. Get yourself to a court with a standard high school/college 3-point arc. Have someone throw you a pass. Catch and shoot. You, Mr. (or Mrs.) Lunchtime Three-on-Three Performer, will draw iron every time. You may not hit the shot, but if you're somewhere between 13 and 63, you'll almost invariably hit the rim, at least.

Now step off 4 feet toward midcourt. Have someone throw you the ball. Take the same casual shot you just took at 19-9.

Air ball.

Oh, sure, the next time you will make sure to get your legs into it. You'll take a deep breath and you'll concentrate, but you may or may not hit the rim. Even if you do, it's still a pure heave.

There's a biiiiig difference between the college shot and the NBA shot. I'm telling you: The college shot is too easy.

Everything's about threes now, but, to me, by far the most interesting player on display over the weekend was North Carolina's Sean May, who had 29 points against Wisconsin on 13 twos, three free throws, and zero threes. If you truly love and appreciate the game, you had to relish watching this kid maneuver himself in the low post for a succession of clever inside hoops. I realize that not every big man can play that way, but most of them don't even try. All the modern Shakespearean actors (i.e. big guys) want to be comedians (i.e. 3-point shooters), and the artistry of the game has suffered as a result.

Most of you will disagree, but I firmly believe that the 3-point shot is the worst thing that's happened to basketball in my lifetime. It's so bad now that kids don't even know how to think in any other terms. A team trailing by 4 with a minute to go and the ball in its hands doesn't need a three. Try telling that to the modern player.

Because of the three, the mid range game has disappeared and post play is nearly extinct, with only a few exceptions (I just gave you one). But in the NBA, at least we can say is that it's a difficult shot.

Among the casualties of this mentality are the memories of some real scorers. A kid can get 30 today with seven, eight, or nine threes. Big deal. Pistol Pete Maravich averaged 44 points per game for a three-year college career without the benefit of the 3-point shot. But that's not the real issue. I just thought I'd throw that one in.

People have forgotten the origin of the three. It was given to us by a promoter, not by someone truly interested in improving the game. The 3-point shot came to us courtesy of Abe Saperstein (yup, the Globetrotter impresario). When Abe founded the ABL in 1960, he instituted the three as an attendance gimmick. The Eastern League (forerunner of the Continental League) quickly picked it up. It was, of course, a natural for the ABA. It was geared to please impressionable fans, not those who had the best interests of the game at heart.

Proponents have always said it was good for the game because "it keeps the little man in the game." That's bogus. There are no more little men playing now than there were in the old days. People say it helps teams that aren't as physically talented as certain opponents to compete. Great. With a gimmick? I see. Working the ball to someone for a layup is less worthy than someone hitting a 20-footer. Why?

People say it promotes comebacks. I won't deny that, but do people think we never had comebacks before the 3-pointer? The greatest of them all (Carolina, down 8 with 17 seconds left, against Duke, tied it up) took place before the 3-point shot was instituted in college basketball.

I believe it was a better all-around game before the three, but I realize I'm never going to see the toothpaste put back into that tube. But would someone in authority at least make a move to move the stupid college line back? Right now the three is a glorified free throw. Is that what we really want?

Never forget that Larry Bird disliked the three. He had two objections. He didn't think a team up by either 2 or 3 should have its fate decided by someone hitting a three, and he thought referees couldn't always get it right, calling some threes twos.

I mean, if Larry Bird (who averaged more than 30 a game in college without the three, by the way) doesn't like something about the game of basketball, isn't that enough reason to get rid of it?

Bob Ryan is a Globe columnist. His e-mail address is ryan@globe.com.

[Scott Weber]

I agree that the 3pt line is too close - for GOOD D-1 teams, but that's part of what makes the game so exciting. No lead is safe in college ball, you have to hit your free throws down the line because of the 1 on 1 situations...I do not possibly see how you can think college basketball is boring, or how NBA basketball is more exciting. It seriously just blows my mind. The NBA is somehow slower paced than college basketball half the time, with each possesion turning into give Kobe the ball, let him juke and pump fake, then take a 19 foot fadeaway and miss. Repeat next possesion. And by the way, I went to a really small private school and there are people on my basketball team playing D2 ball, and a lot of my friends went to Mead in Spokane and had classes/knew/grew up with Adam Morrison. I also had classes with Nate Rob my freshman year and I loved watching him play.

[weezer182]

i dont see why the 3 point line is such a big deal. college players arent as good shooters and its not like you see a lot of teams with extremely high 3 point percentages. i find it the other way around. a lot of nba teams are boring to watch. i like watching more of a team game then one on one. plus the college atmosphere is much more intense then the nba

[Scott Weber]

Also, Mikeford, I don't think you're right about FT% being that much worse in college than in the pros....and you can thank guys like Ben Wallace and Shaq for that.

[preppyak]

if you hate baseball, you should probably leave this country.

And I consider watching 3 hours of guys standing around with some games only having 2 hits boring as shit, it's moderately entertaining live, but baseball on TV to me is like Doctor Phil giving life advice.

At least basketball moves, 35 seconds in baseball is maybe 2 pitches, as long as the first one wasn't fouled off. In college basketball, it can be 3 possessions. I just don't have the patience or the care for baseball.

And yeah, the three point line seems to close now because teams have learned to use it to their advantage. Rick Pitino was one of the coaches who learned that if your team could shoot 40% from the 3pt line it was better than shooting 50% from inside the paint. Like Scott said, it keeps a team down 10 points close enough to make a comeback. Like their aren't a few ballparks where the wall is like 300 ft instead of 350 or more.

Oh, and because NBA players hit FT's (Bulls went 7-19 last night, and well, Shaq in general).

[preppyak]

i dont see why the 3 point line is such a big deal. college players arent as good shooters and its not like you see a lot of teams with extremely high 3 point percentages. i find it the other way around. a lot of nba teams are boring to watch. i like watching more of a team game then one on one. plus the college atmosphere is much more intense then the nba
and then there is the fact that there are 5 players that play defense in the NBA, and they automatically make the all-defensive team. The fact that one guy can have an 81 point night, and at no point anyone could play defense from that team to slow him down is kind of embarrasing

[weezer182]

i know some people may disagree but the nba has been on a decline ever since jordan left. there arent those intense rivalaries anymore and the league still is looking for an identity that will stick. i use to get really excited to wake up on the weekends and watch the nba on nbc.

[mikeford]

the problem with the NBA is that there are too many teams and the talent pool is severely watered down.

your assumption about the NBA merely being kobe taking a 19 foot fadeaway is bad. that only applies to teams with one good player (or one completely selfish piece of trash like kobe, either way). good teams... teams that are fun to watch have people with good ball movement, good defense and people constantly cutting towards the basket. teams like the pistons, suns, cavs, and to a lesser degree the celtics (i'm bias i know, but most of their games generally come down to the wire as evidenced by the opponent point differential being -1.7. meaning they lose every game by like 1 or 2 points. thats EXCITING. watching duke crush some cupcake team by 35 isn't. and i agree with bob ryan... least seasons tourney was fun to watch. good basketball. but it should be noted that the team that WON was the team that pounded the ball inside to Sean May and didnt just jack up "threes" the whole time (Louisville and Rick Pitino are my ultimate example of what is wrong with college basketball)

[Scott Weber]

i know some people may disagree but the nba has been on a decline ever since jordan left. there arent those intense rivalaries anymore and the league still is looking for an identity that will stick. i use to get really excited to wake up on the weekends and watch the nba on nbc.
thank me later.

http://www.ilovewavs.com/TV/Sports/TV%20Theme%20-%20NBC,%20NBA%2002.wav

[Chriz2z]

College players have passion. NBA players have to pay the insurance on their Corvettes.

[mikeford]

And I consider watching 3 hours of guys standing around with some games only having 2 hits boring as shit, it's moderately entertaining live, but baseball on TV to me is like Doctor Phil giving life advice.

At least basketball moves, 35 seconds in baseball is maybe 2 pitches, as long as the first one wasn't fouled off. In college basketball, it can be 3 possessions. I just don't have the patience or the care for baseball.


you must hate chess.

[preppyak]

thank me later.

http://www.ilovewavs.com/TV/Sports/TV%20Theme%20-%20NBC,%20NBA%2002.wav
haha, nice

[weezer182]

thank me later.

http://www.ilovewavs.com/TV/Sports/TV%20Theme%20-%20NBC,%20NBA%2002.wavhaha amazing scott thank you. that tune is classic

[preppyak]

you must hate chess.
nope, I love playing it, and when it's maybe the two best players in the world (or against those computers) I find myself watching it from time to time. Essentially the same thing in baseball for me too

I watch a game or two in the playoffs, but it just doesn't hold my attention, I don't know enough about the intricate little details to care about how the managers shift players, and usually the announcers make no attempt to show why the changes matter. In the colllege game, the announcers explain things like flaws in the zone, back screens, etc, it helps the audience distinguish the college game from some random pick up game. Any games I've seen in baseball don't do that

I didn't say baseball was a terrible sport, I said it was boring to watch.

The fact that I don't like baseball could be from having the Pirates and Phillies as my two teams nearby, and their seasons are almost always over before they begin

[mikeford]

you should read jerry remy's book "watching baseball"

gave me a whole new appreciation for baseball.

[Scott Weber]

the problem with the NBA is that there are too many teams and the talent pool is severely watered down.

your assumption about the NBA merely being kobe taking a 19 foot fadeaway is bad. that only applies to teams with one good player (or one completely selfish piece of trash like kobe, either way). good teams... teams that are fun to watch have people with good ball movement, good defense and people constantly cutting towards the basket. teams like the pistons, suns, cavs, and to a lesser degree the celtics (i'm bias i know, but most of their games generally come down to the wire as evidenced by the opponent point differential being -1.7. meaning they lose every game by like 1 or 2 points. thats EXCITING. watching duke crush some cupcake team by 35 isn't. and i agree with bob ryan... least seasons tourney was fun to watch. good basketball. but it should be noted that the team that WON was the team that pounded the ball inside to Sean May and didnt just jack up "threes" the whole time (Louisville and Rick Pitino are my ultimate example of what is wrong with college basketball)
Haha, you act like every NBA game is tight competition too. There are so many shitty games in the NBA, it's ridiculous. Who the fuck wants to see Detroit hold the Bobcats to 65 points? Who wants to see the Knicks lose by 35 to the Mavs? Nobody. Kobe isn't the only one, the league is full of selfish players who would rather take shots themselves than pass to open men. There are "point guards" like Stephon Marbury who take ridiculous shots and commit tons of turnovers instead of just passing the ball...The level of competition is hugely varied in college basketball, and preseason play does have some blowouts, of course, because there's 117 teams or something, and they all have a shot at taking down the big team. (Chaminade). But when it gets down to the real season, when it matters, there's intense competition. Nothing is more exciting than March Madness - period. Not the world series, not the super bowl, nothing. because it's 64 teams, and ANYBODY can win it - one loss, and you're done. Season over. The NBA playoffs are a fucking joke. The league stretches them on for like a month and a half, and the only real excitement they've had over the past 5 years was the first round 5 game format, making it so that some huge upsets could occur. But that's dissapeared, and now it takes up for 28 fucking games to win an NBA title. That's just boring, it's dull. The season lasts for too long and a loss just doesn't MEAN enough in the NBA. There's such a lowered incentive to play hard, because most of the time, there IS a tommorow. It's just not like that in college ball. Teams on the bubble, fighting for a tourney spot, the number 15 seed playing the best game of their life and taking down the #2 seed who's been overrated all year long...March Madness is as good as it gets, and 90% of the best game winning shots in basketball history come in college basketball, and not the pros. There's a reason why.

By the way, I'd love to check the stats and see how many 3 pointers UNC took in the tourney last year. With the gunners on their team, you can guarantee it was a lot...way to buy into a one-sided argument that Ryan presented without doing the research. Go ahead, check out the tourney game log from last year. I'm dying to know how they shot so many less threes than the other teams, or how they didn't need the 3 to win.

[Scott Weber]

haha amazing scott thank you. that tune is classic
it's my current ringtone.

[Shatter_Glass]

not the same place tim duncan, shaq, AI, chauncey, gilbert arenas, paul pierce, delonte west, jameer nelson, jason kidd, dwayne wade, carmelo, chris bosh, ray allen, michael redd, elton brand, jason richardson, baron davis, steve nash, ben gordon, chris paul, cuttino mobley, brad miller, or morris peterson.
but lets ignore the fact that 39 of the top 50 scorers in the league went to college.
or the fact that 38 of the top 50 rebounders went to college.
or the fact that 36 of the top 50 in FG% went to college.
or the fact that 41 of the top 50 assist men went to college.
or the fact that 41 of the top 50 FT shooters went to college.

but the college game is so bad because they're young kids that play because they're on scholarship instead of millions of dollars and are learning the game instead of going to the NBA and flopping like all the flops that get drafted out of high school. for each kid you listed, there's 3 that don't make an impact (jonathan bender, anyone?).

Burn bitch.....bad burn..... GO TARHEELS!

[preppyak]

Teams on the bubble, fighting for a tourney spot, the number 15 seed playing the best game of their life and taking down the #2 seed who's been overrated all year long...March Madness is as good as it gets, and 90% of the best game winning shots in basketball history come in college basketball, and not the pros. There's a reason why.
There is basically Jordan, Bird, and a random Laker with winning shots, and then the rest are college basketball memories. And I agree, March Madness is the greatest thing ever, 3 weeks of ridiculous upsets, huge games, and Dick Vitale hopefully retiring

[fire on my lips]

Pistol Pete Maravich averaged 44 points per game for a three-year college career without the benefit of the 3-point shot.
Pistol Pete = the man
it's a shame most basketball fans can only faintly recognize the name, but not tell you where he played in college (louisiana state) or the pros (Hawk, Jazz {then in New Orleans}, Celtics).

[fire on my lips]

There is basically Jordan, Bird, and a random Laker with winning shots, and then the rest are college basketball memories. And I agree, March Madness is the greatest thing ever, 3 weeks of ridiculous upsets, huge games, and Dick Vitale hopefully retiring
I'm always happy when he goes hoarse (sp?)

[mikeford]

hoarse.

[asianxcore]

ncaa>nba, i do like both though, i feel there is more passion in the ncaa, its all or nothing.

[sweethypocrisy]

There is basically Jordan, Bird, and a random Laker with winning shots, and then the rest are college basketball memories. And I agree, March Madness is the greatest thing ever, 3 weeks of ridiculous upsets, huge games, and Dick Vitale hopefully retiring
hahahhaha. agreed.

[somethingyellow]

hey caleb, shouldnt you take away the sticky for the nfl thread?

[Jason Tate]

college basketball sucks.

try driving the ball to the hoop once in awhile and don't pass the ball around for 35 seconds to take a fake three pointer.

also, i forget, where did kobe bryant, kevin garnett, lebron james, tracy mcgrady, jermaine o'neal and dwight howard go to college?

stop making threads about this shitty fake basketball, you are making me uninterested in the sports forum.
I hate you. Seriously.

[Jason Tate]

Haha, you act like every NBA game is tight competition too. There are so many shitty games in the NBA, it's ridiculous. Who the fuck wants to see Detroit hold the Bobcats to 65 points? Who wants to see the Knicks lose by 35 to the Mavs? Nobody. Kobe isn't the only one, the league is full of selfish players who would rather take shots themselves than pass to open men. There are "point guards" like Stephon Marbury who take ridiculous shots and commit tons of turnovers instead of just passing the ball...The level of competition is hugely varied in college basketball, and preseason play does have some blowouts, of course, because there's 117 teams or something, and they all have a shot at taking down the big team. (Chaminade). But when it gets down to the real season, when it matters, there's intense competition. Nothing is more exciting than March Madness - period. Not the world series, not the super bowl, nothing. because it's 64 teams, and ANYBODY can win it - one loss, and you're done. Season over. The NBA playoffs are a fucking joke. The league stretches them on for like a month and a half, and the only real excitement they've had over the past 5 years was the first round 5 game format, making it so that some huge upsets could occur. But that's dissapeared, and now it takes up for 28 fucking games to win an NBA title. That's just boring, it's dull. The season lasts for too long and a loss just doesn't MEAN enough in the NBA. There's such a lowered incentive to play hard, because most of the time, there IS a tommorow. It's just not like that in college ball. Teams on the bubble, fighting for a tourney spot, the number 15 seed playing the best game of their life and taking down the #2 seed who's been overrated all year long...March Madness is as good as it gets, and 90% of the best game winning shots in basketball history come in college basketball, and not the pros. There's a reason why.

By the way, I'd love to check the stats and see how many 3 pointers UNC took in the tourney last year. With the gunners on their team, you can guarantee it was a lot...way to buy into a one-sided argument that Ryan presented without doing the research. Go ahead, check out the tourney game log from last year. I'm dying to know how they shot so many less threes than the other teams, or how they didn't need the 3 to win.
Amen.

[nateisawesome]

I would rather watch paint dry than watch the NBA

[wecanbeheros]

The college game is just so much more intriging. You don't have to put up with the "bling", the ego's, the crap, but instead you get the drama of recruiting, players you can relate to, awesome student sections, and it all comes down to one tournament. How do you beat it?

[wecanbeheros]

I would rather watch paint dry than watch the NBA

For the most part I'll agree with you. Unless Kobe, the heat, or Lebron are playing one another I find everything else boring.

[Scott Weber]

The guys who started this thread have mysteriously dissapeard, and nobody else seems to be backing up the NBA.

[somethingyellow]

The guys who started this thread have mysteriously dissapeard, and nobody else seems to be backing up the NBA.it is hard for me to understand how anybody could hate college basketball so much but like the nba :huh:

[wecanbeheros]

it is hard for me to understand how anybody could hate college basketball so much but like the nba :huh:

word brotha.

[nateisawesome]

it is hard for me to understand how anybody could hate college basketball so much but like the nba :huh:

seriously. I would rather watch the worst college game ever over the best NBA gave ever any day

[somethingyellow]

seriously. I would rather watch the worst college game ever over the best NBA gave ever any dayi personally still like watching the nba especially come playoff time but it doesnt beat college basketball imo

[FreshyFresh23]

not the same place tim duncan, shaq, AI, chauncey, gilbert arenas, paul pierce, delonte west, jameer nelson, jason kidd, dwayne wade, carmelo, chris bosh, ray allen, michael redd, elton brand, jason richardson, baron davis, steve nash, ben gordon, chris paul, cuttino mobley, brad miller, or morris peterson.
but lets ignore the fact that 39 of the top 50 scorers in the league went to college.
or the fact that 38 of the top 50 rebounders went to college.
or the fact that 36 of the top 50 in FG% went to college.
or the fact that 41 of the top 50 assist men went to college.
or the fact that 41 of the top 50 FT shooters went to college.

but the college game is so bad because they're young kids that play because they're on scholarship instead of millions of dollars and are learning the game instead of going to the NBA and flopping like all the flops that get drafted out of high school. for each kid you listed, there's 3 that don't make an impact (jonathan bender, anyone?).

That list is really lame..

How many kids went to college that flopped in the NBA? guarantee its greater than the number of high school flops just because of the sheer volume of college players :-P Ratio is probably worse too.

[FreshyFresh23]

College basketball sucks by the way

[wecanbeheros]

College basketball sucks in arizona because I have no one good to root for


aw, I'm sorry. That must be rough.

[weezer182]

College basketball sucks by the waywhy?

[bigmike]

aw, I'm sorry. That must be rough.
haha.

[preppyak]

College basketball sucks by the way haha, you go to ASU, the only thing they are known for in basketball is making Steve Kerr cry by insulting his father's military death

[somethingyellow]

everything must suck when the best you can do is ASU.haha i fuckin hate that school (i did go to university of arizona for a year which made that hate grow)

[fire on my lips]

haha, you go to ASU, the only thing they are known for in basketball is making Steve Kerr cry by insulting his father's military death
that's really dirty, i only know ASU as a huge party school

[Scott Weber]

that's really dirty, i only know ASU as a huge party school
dude, seriously...change the user title, it's spelled ridiculous. Ultimate pet peeve. Seriously.

[somethingyellow]

dude, seriously...change the user title, it's spelled ridiculous. Ultimate pet peeve. Seriously.haha i thought it was the misuse of your and you're

[Scott Weber]

haha i thought it was the misuse of your and you're
I can't decide which one, I switch back and forth as to whatever's convinient at the time, haha.

[somethingyellow]

I can't decide which one, I switch back and forth as to whatever's convinient at the time, haha.i swear ever since you have brought that up with your and you're it has been bugging me too when people misuse it haha

[mikeford]

might i suggest a word filter for the board? anyone typing rediculous should have it automatically turn into "i didnt pass 3rd grade spelling"

[bigmike]

might i suggest a word filter for the board? anyone typing rediculous should have it automatically turn into "i didnt pass 3rd grade spelling"
it's cause i already called him out on not spelling it and told him to put it in his sig so he'd remember so he put the incorrect spelling as his user title 'cause he's that witty.

[Caleb Cattivera]

i like the nba and college equally. i think i love the nba because fantasy basketball always keeps me on my toes and has me watching games.

and i love college basketball because of the competition and watching huge rivalries. i cant choose one or the other.

as for who-ever was talking about pistol pete...so often kobe is called selfish, but pistol was probably the most selfish player ever. his teammates hated him and were outspoken about it, more so than with kobe. kobe is a modern day pistol pete.

[Jason Tate]

i like the nba and college equally. i think i love the nba because fantasy basketball always keeps me on my toes and has me watching games.

and i love college basketball because of the competition and watching huge rivalries. i cant choose one or the other.

as for who-ever was talking about pistol pete...so often kobe is called selfish, but pistol was probably the most selfish player ever. his teammates hated him and were outspoken about it, more so than with kobe. kobe is a modern day pistol pete.
without pete's skills.

[bigmike]

i like the nba and college equally. i think i love the nba because fantasy basketball always keeps me on my toes and has me watching games.

and i love college basketball because of the competition and watching huge rivalries. i cant choose one or the other.

as for who-ever was talking about pistol pete...so often kobe is called selfish, but pistol was probably the most selfish player ever. his teammates hated him and were outspoken about it, more so than with kobe. kobe is a modern day pistol pete.
definitely. i think i've had this discussion with you before. pistol pete is regarded as so great, which is probably deserving, yet people overlook the fact that he was a ballhog and his teams never won.

[xearlynovemberx]

pfft. no one cares about the mets.

well see this season when the mets own them

[Scott Weber]

without pete's skills.
yeah. that's the thing...Pete shot so much, but he missed so much LESS than Kobe. Kobe still manages to shoot at a much lower percentage than Pistol.

[Caleb Cattivera]

yeah. that's the thing...Pete shot so much, but he missed so much LESS than Kobe. Kobe still manages to shoot at a much lower percentage than Pistol.

haha he didnt miss less, he missed more, kobes a better shooter. there's one year where pete MISSED 14 shots per game.

[Scott Weber]

haha he didnt miss less, he missed more, kobes a better shooter. there's one year where pete MISSED 14 shots per game.
I refuse to call Kobe a better shooter than Pistol Pete. His career FG% is 45%, and Pete's was 44%. Plus, over the past few years, Kobe's been .438 and .433, and .448 this year. Meh.

[weezer182]

it is too hard to compare pistol pete and kobe

[Caleb Cattivera]

I refuse to call Kobe a better shooter than Pistol Pete. His career FG% is 45%, and Pete's was 44%. Plus, over the past few years, Kobe's been .438 and .433, and .448 this year. Meh.

you just hate kobe though, so i understand.

but pistol never shot over 45% in consecutive seasons. when kobe did it for five seasons. kobe is a better shooter.

[Jason Tate]

you just hate kobe though, so i understand.

but pistol never shot over 45% in consecutive seasons. when kobe did it for five seasons. kobe is a better shooter.
In girl's panties .. true.

[Scott Weber]

you just hate kobe though, so i understand.

but pistol never shot over 45% in consecutive seasons. when kobe did it for five seasons. kobe is a better shooter.
Percentages aren't everything. Present a legitimate argument, statistical or not, and we will talk. I'm sure Pistol took a whole lot more of what would be considered 3's now, which is a contributing factor to his SLIGHTLY lower FG% (don't even act like it's significant). Kobe most likely also takes it to the hoop and gets dunks/layups much more often than pistol did, due to the size/athleticism advantage. Saying Kobe is a better shooter is just .... dumb. That's a lame statistic to pull in your favor, especially if you look at how many games Pistol missed from year to year due to injuries and other things.

[Vincewithouthee]

College basketball >>>>>>> NBA anyday of the week.

It's just better to watch. March Madness is the best time of the year for sports other than the NFL playoffs if you're favorite team is in it.

Plus, I don't really have much of a favorite NBA team, since there isn't a Pittsburgh team.

I would say more and go more in depth but everyone else has already said what I would say.

[wecanbeheros]

college>NBA

[Brownpants06]

I agree on the way too god damn many NCAA threads. I only watch march madness anyway.

[wecanbeheros]

I agree on the way too god damn many NCAA threads. I only watch march madness anyway.

college>you

[LeftWideOpen]

I agree on the way too god damn many NCAA threads. I only watch march madness anyway.

i wouldnt expect any less from someone w/ a tom cruise avatar.

[Brownpants06]

i wouldnt expect any less from someone w/ a tom cruise avatar.
Vincent avatar. Theres a difference.

[Caleb Cattivera]

Percentages aren't everything. Present a legitimate argument, statistical or not, and we will talk. I'm sure Pistol took a whole lot more of what would be considered 3's now, which is a contributing factor to his SLIGHTLY lower FG% (don't even act like it's significant). Kobe most likely also takes it to the hoop and gets dunks/layups much more often than pistol did, due to the size/athleticism advantage. Saying Kobe is a better shooter is just .... dumb. That's a lame statistic to pull in your favor, especially if you look at how many games Pistol missed from year to year due to injuries and other things.

you're sure he took more of what would be three's now? that'd be retarded to do, esp if there was no line. that's a lame argument.

[Scott Weber]

you're sure he took more of what would be three's now? that'd be retarded to do, esp if there was no line. that's a lame argument.
No, a lame argument is you claiming that Kobe is a better shooter while you discount what a legend achieved in his career. We can dance around all night, but you actually trying to argue that Kobe IS a better shooter than Maravich based on 1% point is fucking retarded, especially if we're talking about now, in Kobe's prime, because his numbers over the past 3 years are lower than Maravich's. Pistol Pete is regarded as one of the greatest shooters in basketball history, and when Kobe retires, he won't even be considered one of the top shooters in today's NBA generation. Sad, but true.

[Caleb Cattivera]

No, a lame argument is you claiming that Kobe is a better shooter while you discount what a legend achieved in his career. We can dance around all night, but you actually trying to argue that Kobe IS a better shooter than Maravich based on 1% point is fucking retarded, especially if we're talking about now, in Kobe's prime, because his numbers over the past 3 years are lower than Maravich's. Pistol Pete is regarded as one of the greatest shooters in basketball history, and when Kobe retires, he won't even be considered one of the top shooters in today's NBA generation. Sad, but true.


ill just say it. pistol pete was overrated. one of the most overrated players in the last 30 years. GREAT college player, phenomenal. but as a pro, he had a decent career, never ever helped his team, when he had the pieces he didnt utilize them. he shouldnt have been on the 50 greatest players of all time list, that should've been a slap in the face to alot of players. what did pistol achieve in his career? nothing, he acheived nothing of importance.

kobe>pistol pete

[mikeford]

every thread caleb gets involved with turns into an argument about kobe.

fuck kobe. fuck the purple and gold. and fuck the city of LA.

[Scott Weber]

ill just say it. pistol pete was overrated. one of the most overrated players in the last 30 years. GREAT college player, phenomenal. but as a pro, he had a decent career, never ever helped his team, when he had the pieces he didnt utilize them. he shouldnt have been on the 50 greatest players of all time list, that should've been a slap in the face to alot of players. what did pistol achieve in his career? nothing, he acheived nothing of importance.

kobe>pistol pete
Yes, that is fucking beautiful. I'm so glad you just posted that, because it shows you're arguing against Maravich because of your personal distaste for his received acclaim - nothing else. Of COURSE Kobe > Pistol in the NBA, Kobe's got titles, his numbers are better in nearly every category, he's a more complete player, etc - But that's never what the debate was about, was it?

[Caleb Cattivera]

Yes, that is fucking beautiful. I'm so glad you just posted that, because it shows you're arguing against Maravich because of your personal distaste for his received acclaim - nothing else. Of COURSE Kobe > Pistol in the NBA, Kobe's got titles, his numbers are better in nearly every category, he's a more complete player, etc - But that's never what the debate was about, was it?

kobe is greater than pistol pete as a player as well.

he helped his team to titles...it wasnt just shaq...pete NEVER EVER EVER helped his teams. seriously, he's one of the top 10 overrated players in history. im not arguing against any personal distaste for pete maravich, he was a good player, but not nearly as great as everyone portrays him to be.

[Caleb Cattivera]

every thread caleb gets involved with turns into an argument about kobe.

fuck kobe. fuck the purple and gold. and fuck the city of LA.

pointless post. you hate LA because youre in boston.

[Scott Weber]

kobe is greater than pistol pete as a player as well.

he helped his team to titles...it wasnt just shaq...pete NEVER EVER EVER helped his teams. seriously, he's one of the top 10 overrated players in history. im not arguing against any personal distaste for pete maravich, he was a good player, but not nearly as great as everyone portrays him to be.
the hell are you talking about? I just said Kobe was a better player than Pistol Pete, did you even read that? The debate was about who the better shooter was, not the better player. Man, you really want to get into a debate about Kobe vs. Pistol overall, but it's not happening.

[mikeford]

i hate LA because that city is a shithole.

[wecanbeheros]

i hate LA because that city is a shithole.


no it's not dude. It has bad parts, and it has good parts. I'm sorry if you dont like a sunny 75 degrees everyday.

[LeftWideOpen]

no it's not dude. It has bad parts, and it has good parts. I'm sorry if you dont like a sunny 75 degrees everyday.

that's what the rest of SoCal if for. From my experience, L.A is a giant cloud of pollution. It was disgusting.

[Scott Weber]

no it's not dude. It has bad parts, and it has good parts. I'm sorry if you dont like a sunny 75 degrees everyday.
Nah, LA is a piece of shit. Horrible pollution, terrible, fake people, expensive everything, and the whole city's one giant collection of scenes. And I've been to LA a fair amount of times...every time I'm there I can't wait to leave.

[Caleb Cattivera]

Nah, LA is a piece of shit. Horrible pollution, terrible, fake people, expensive everything, and the whole city's one giant collection of scenes. And I've been to LA a fair amount of times...every time I'm there I can't wait to leave.

i had fun when i was oustide of LA, but being actual downtown was shitty. ew.

[wecanbeheros]

Nah, LA is a piece of shit. Horrible pollution, terrible, fake people, expensive everything, and the whole city's one giant collection of scenes. And I've been to LA a fair amount of times...every time I'm there I can't wait to leave.

as opposed to the most depressing city in the US where it rains every fucking day? LA has a bit of everything, I'm sorry you don't like it.

[wecanbeheros]

that's what the rest of SoCal if for. From my experience, L.A is a giant cloud of pollution. It was disgusting.

LA actually has less pollution than most f the rest of SoCal, the ocean breeze pushes it all inland, but yeah I don't live in LA, and I'm fighting an uphill battle that I'm not passionate enough to keep fighting.

[itsjdiggity]

la sucks except for the ridiculous amount of shows and the nice weather

orange county is where it's at

[weezer182]

the whole la area is great

[Scott Weber]

as opposed to the most depressing city in the US where it rains every fucking day? LA has a bit of everything, I'm sorry you don't like it.
Haha, I can say with confidence that you're a fucking idiot! And I don't even feel bad about it! Sorry dude. Have you ever been to Seattle? The "it rains so much" is a myth. It rains around 38-40 inches per year, which is LESS than oh, Atlanta, Atlantic City, New York, Birmingham, Charlotte, Tampa, New Orleans, Louisville, Miami, umm....need I go on?

LA is the most vile, disgusting wasteland of human existance on the earth. And I hate the weather.

[Scott Weber]

Wikipedia is your friend:

Seattle's climate is mild, with the temperature moderated by the sea and protected from winds and storms by the mountains. The "rainy city" receives an unremarkable 38 inches (970 mm) of precipitation a year, less than most major Eastern Seaboard cities. For example, New York City averages 47.3 inches (1200 mm)

now gtfo.

[weezer182]

Haha, I can say with confidence that you're a fucking idiot! And I don't even feel bad about it! Sorry dude. Have you ever been to Seattle? The "it rains so much" is a myth. It rains around 38-40 inches per year, which is LESS than oh, Atlanta, Atlantic City, New York, Birmingham, Charlotte, Tampa, New Orleans, Louisville, Miami, umm....need I go on?

LA is the most vile, disgusting wasteland of human existance on the earth. And I hate the weather.yea it doesnt rain as much as people think. it doesn't get hard down pours that often but it does stay cloudy a lot, especially in the winter. comparing the two cities is hard because they are so different. in my opinion i think seattle is just okay. i found it was over hyped. i like vancouver and probably portland more as a northwest city. the nice part about the northwest though is the no smog

[Scott Weber]

yea it doesnt rain as much as people think. it doesn't get hard down pours that often but it does stay cloudy a lot, especially in the winter. comparing the two cities is hard because they are so different. in my opinion i think seattle is just okay. i found it was over hyped. i like vancouver and probably portland more as a northwest city. the nice part about the northwest though is the no smog
Winter is so-so here. It doesn't get super cold, but it is cloudy all the time. The summers here are the best in the US, I've never been anywhere nicer during the summer.

[weezer182]

Winter is so-so here. It doesn't get super cold, but it is cloudy all the time. The summers here are the best in the US, I've never been anywhere nicer during the summer.yea i would agree the summers are great in the northwest

[Vincewithouthee]

Haha, I can say with confidence that you're a fucking idiot! And I don't even feel bad about it! Sorry dude. Have you ever been to Seattle? The "it rains so much" is a myth. It rains around 38-40 inches per year, which is LESS than oh, Atlanta, Atlantic City, New York, Birmingham, Charlotte, Tampa, New Orleans, Louisville, Miami, umm....need I go on?

LA is the most vile, disgusting wasteland of human existance on the earth. And I hate the weather.

Yeah I agree with that.

I don't know from experience on either city however. I do wanna go to Seattle someday though. Looks like a great city.