View Full Version : Who's Worse? (College)
itsjdiggity
03/09/06, 11:39 AM
They both seem pretty shitty to me, especially in "clutch" situations.
Johnny_G
03/09/06, 11:40 AM
Who are we talking about
Edit: nevermind
still_life
03/09/06, 12:35 PM
I might be wrong for college stats, but FG kickers on the average have a higher percentage than the average free throw shooter, so it's more of a choke when a kicker misses a FG. The difference is probably in the specialization of the position. Kickers have one job to do. Any basketball player (center or guard, big or small) can go to the line and skew the numbers.
bigmike
03/09/06, 12:58 PM
i said free throw shooters. the clock is stopped, it's the same distance each and everytime. you can practice it at any basketball court.
Field goal kickers have varying distances, weather conditions, field conditions, 11 guy trying to do anything they can to block it, etc...
So i say the ones standing with the stopped clock, no one trying to block their shot for sucking the most.
instantly penn st vs fsu comes to mind.....
still_life
03/09/06, 01:25 PM
instantly penn st vs fsu comes to mind.....
Yep, same here.
still_life
03/09/06, 01:27 PM
i said free throw shooters. the clock is stopped, it's the same distance each and everytime. you can practice it at any basketball court.
Field goal kickers have varying distances, weather conditions, field conditions, 11 guy trying to do anything they can to block it, etc...
So i say the ones standing with the stopped clock, no one trying to block their shot for sucking the most.
The clock being stopped is irrelevant. Fatigue is also a bigger factor in free throws, as guys get tired in the second half if they played a lot of minutes. And I would say the crazy pressure put on by the fans that are about 15 feet away, spinning things like crazy, yelling stuff at you, makes it a lot harder than being a kicker in a big stadium.
weezer182
03/09/06, 02:03 PM
field goal kickers
kicking field goals is extremely hard, a free throw is an easy shot from a short distance and it all depends on that player making it in, a field goal depends on wind, distance, the snap, the hold, and the team charging at you to block, add that to the fact that you may have been sitting their for 59 minutes twiddling your thumbs and now you are expected to hit a 45 yard field goal to win the game, at least basketball players get to play and warm up and are prepared to shoot at all times
The clock being stopped is irrelevant. Fatigue is also a bigger factor in free throws, as guys get tired in the second half if they played a lot of minutes. And I would say the crazy pressure put on by the fans that are about 15 feet away, spinning things like crazy, yelling stuff at you, makes it a lot harder than being a kicker in a big stadium.
so wait, 1,000 kids in a student section applies more pressure than 50,000 screaming fans, that makes a lot of sense
preppyak
03/09/06, 03:10 PM
kicking field goals is extremely hard, a free throw is an easy shot from a short distance and it all depends on that player making it in, a field goal depends on wind, distance, the snap, the hold, and the team charging at you to block, add that to the fact that you may have been sitting their for 59 minutes twiddling your thumbs and now you are expected to hit a 45 yard field goal to win the game, at least basketball players get to play and warm up and are prepared to shoot at all times
I think that is the key, FT shooters have only them, the basket and the crowd influencing them, kickers have to deal with so many things that can go wrong before the ball even touches their foot. Pressure wise, I don't think it's a huge difference in the clutch, but I think because of all the extra factors, kickers have more to deal with
still_life
03/09/06, 03:22 PM
so wait, 1,000 kids in a student section applies more pressure than 50,000 screaming fans, that makes a lot of sense
It does, the fans in a basketball game are right on top of you. There's no one around you on a football field, except for the teams.
http://www.hhweb.com/sb38/SBowl38VinatieriGWKick5_small.jpg
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/duke/galleries/mbb-20031206/DUKE_ST_JOHN_5-lg.jpg
I think situation #1 would be easier to deal with
you are also forgetting that kicking a field goal is 500 times harder than making a foul shot, that always has to be in the equation, go to your local gym and shoot ten free throws, you can be a complete scrub and make at least 5, now go to a field and try to kick a 35 yarder, not even close...
and do not say that kickers are specialized and that is their job, it is the job of all basketball players to be able to score points, it is also their job to hit free throws, i guarantee they take more practice free throws than kickers take practice kicks
note to everybody still life is hated in the sports forum. what about a couple years ago in the sweet sixteen duke vs. indiana...indiana is up 4 with 10 seconds to go....jason williams of duke shoots a 3 at the buzzer makes the three and gets fouled....goes up to the free throw line to force overtime and misses the shot...that is a lot of pressure...or what about last year in the conference usa tournament when memphis had a free throw at the end of regulation to force overtime and the guy missed the free throw. free throws are a bigger choke because you can practice those in the gym 24/7. it is the same distance with the same weather conditions. so much can go wrong on a field goal...bad snap...bad hold...strong wind.
still_life
03/09/06, 04:05 PM
you are also forgetting that kicking a field goal is 500 times harder than making a foul shot, that always has to be in the equation, go to your local gym and shoot ten free throws, you can be a complete scrub and make at least 5, now go to a field and try to kick a 35 yarder, not even close...
and do not say that kickers are specialized and that is their job, it is the job of all basketball players to be able to score points, it is also their job to hit free throws, i guarantee they take more practice free throws than kickers take practice kicks
If it was so much harder, then why do most teams average under 70% in FT's, and kickers are over 75%? The percentage of making a FG is better than making a free throw, making it more of a choke when a kicker misses.
And you couldn't be more wrong about practice and specialization. A kicker is the best example of specialization in sports, aside from a relief pitcher probably. They practice kicking all the time, that's their job. A big man like Shaq probably has free throws far down his list of things to practice. The fact that any player can be put on the foul line makes it far more likely for a free throw to be missed.
note to everybody still life is hated in the sports forum. what about a couple years ago in the sweet sixteen duke vs. indiana...indiana is up 4 with 10 seconds to go....jason williams of duke shoots a 3 at the buzzer makes the three and gets fouled....goes up to the free throw line to force overtime and misses the shot...that is a lot of pressure...or what about last year in the conference usa tournament when memphis had a free throw at the end of regulation to force overtime and the guy missed the free throw. free throws are a bigger choke because you can practice those in the gym 24/7. it is the same distance with the same weather conditions. so much can go wrong on a field goal...bad snap...bad hold...strong wind.
The biggest missed free throws have nothing on missed field goals. You're talking about something that happens 10, 20, 30, 50 times a game sometimes. It's worth 1 point in a high scoring game. A FG will be the difference in a win and loss far more often than one free throw.
Broken Parachute
03/09/06, 04:06 PM
In basketball, College especially, the fans are so loud. If you're the away team..your nerves are shot. The fans are right near you yelling at you and things, it's pretty easy to miss a clutch free throw.
Kickers have alot of time to get ready because they know what their task is, plus the fans are yelling from a great distance away. It's not like basketball where the fans are 10 feet away.
If it was so much harder, then why do most teams average under 70% in FT's, and kickers are over 75%? The percentage of making a FG is better than making a free throw, making it more of a choke when a kicker misses.
And you couldn't be more wrong about practice and specialization. A kicker is the best example of specialization in sports, aside from a relief pitcher probably. They practice kicking all the time, that's their job. A big man like Shaq probably has free throws far down his list of things to practice. The fact that any player can be put on the foul line makes it far more likely for a free throw to be missed.
The biggest missed free throws have nothing on missed field goals. You're talking about something that happens 10, 20, 30, 50 times a game sometimes. It's worth 1 point in a high scoring game. A FG will be the difference in a win and loss far more often than one free throw.
because teams do not kick as many field goals in college, they are more likely to punt or go for it instead of taking a 50 yard field goal, if you take long field goals out of the equation you are sure to have a higher percentage, also you said in the clutch, yet im pretty sure that the stats you are throwing out refer to percentages throughout the game. so you are wrong
also, if you look at an entire game missed free throws are one of the first things that people look at when they lists reasons for losing, they add up
and as far as free throw practice, big men probably practice free throws more than anybody because they suck at them and they know that at the end of the game they will be fouled and be forced to shoot, when the lakers were winning championships they used to talk about how shaq worked hard to improve his free throw shooting.
but you're right, he probably practices the move where he uses his fat to push guys out of the way and then dunk on them, that is probably the first thing he does in practice
The biggest missed free throws have nothing on missed field goals. You're talking about something that happens 10, 20, 30, 50 times a game sometimes. It's worth 1 point in a high scoring game. A FG will be the difference in a win and loss far more often than one free throw.
negative...lets take for example my school...Loyola Marymount University. Monday night we played Gonzaga in the WCC final. We lost by 1 point. Now lets look at the free throw stats for the game. would you look at that 13-21 from the free throw. If we make two more free throws we win the game and have a berth in the big dance.
Chriz2z
03/09/06, 05:05 PM
Kicking Field Goals is hard to do. Try and kick a ball off the twenty yard line (30 yard kick, relative pitch shot), and it'll miss 10 out of 10 times. A free throw, you should make atleast once, even if you suck.
still_life
03/09/06, 06:26 PM
Before this goes in circles, what's the argument here anyway?
Is it harder to kick a field goal or make a free throw?
Is it easier to choke on a clutch FG than a FT?
Before this goes in circles, what's the argument here anyway?
Is it harder to kick a field goal or make a free throw?
Is it easier to choke on a clutch FG than a FT?
but the first question is an integral part of the second, a missed field goal is not as big of a choke because it is so much harder to do in the first place
still_life
03/09/06, 06:33 PM
but the first question is an integral part of the second, a missed field goal is not as big of a choke because it is so much harder to do in the first place
If it's harder, why would the percentage of making one FG be higher than one FT? You have to look at the percentages.
And I don't think any missed free throw could ever rival Scott Norwood's missed FG in the Super Bowl. The magnitude of a missed FG can be so much bigger than one FT.
preppyak
03/09/06, 06:42 PM
If it's harder, why would the percentage of making one FG be higher than one FT? You have to look at the percentages.
And I don't think any missed free throw could ever rival Scott Norwood's missed FG in the Super Bowl. The magnitude of a missed FG can be so much bigger than one FT. Because NFL special teams sadly only seem to care on game winning FG's, not on every FT like college fans do
I think the pressure is equal or close among the two, but if my life was on the line, I'd take a FT over a 35 yd FG any day. A FT is easier to hit, but it has so much more immediate pressure from fans, which essentially makes it equal in terms of pressure overall. But, form wise and physically, a FT should be hit 75% or you should be embarrased, as it is an uncontested shot with no time limit from fairly close. It's the same level as a PK in soccer, you shouldn't miss it, but mistakes are made
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