Sad When The Industry Has To Turn To This..

[Jason Tate]

I heard from a friend over at Virgin Records today that the new "thing" in the industry is to release watermarked promo copies of albums to the press and not announce it on the discs themselves. Rumor has it a few "pirates" have already been caught this way.

[Rohan Kohli]

Good.

[kinevil kinevil]

about fucking time.

[Save my day]

Theirs people who actually sell pirated cds? Never seen this..

[lightcollapse]

wait...what does this mean. i'm not really sure what a watermarked copy is, or not announcing it on the discs.

[Speyside]

If I were in their position, I probably would have done this about two years ago.

[Rohan Kohli]

wait...what does this mean. i'm not really sure what a watermarked copy is, or not announcing it on the discs.

Watermarked copies have information on the tracks that allows labels to find out the source of the song if it leaks online... basically so they can find who leaked the CD, whether intentionally or not

And usually they announce it on the discs so that the person takes extra care with the CD... and knows not to send it to anyone (not that they should be anyways).

[permanent]

In all fairness, I am on the fence. While I believe they should watermark all promo copies of albums, at the same time this is really bad for editors. I normally send albums to reviewers in confidence, but I am always extra careful when it comes to sending something that is watermarked.

[Drew Beringer]

Smart move.

[Crimson_Curse]

I thought the new "thing" in the industry was jewish rappers.

[Wheez]

Yeah, sad it has to come to this, but if this is what it takes to get money back to the bands that really deserve it, then it's a must.

[1check_1love]

I thought the new "thing" in the industry was jewish rappers.
haha for serious!

"what's this feeling? my love will rip a hole in the ceiling. giving myself to you from the essence of my being." how emo.

[Robb]

Didn't they do this with MCR's album, minus the 'not announcing' it part?

[kirbs84]

I'm suprised they're just now doing this. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing either.

[BrandNizzle182]

not announcing it sounds very illegal.
it has to be entrapment or something. correct me if im wrong.

[Speyside]

not announcing it sounds very illegal.
it has to be entrapment or something. correct me if im wrong.
No, it's only entrapment if the reviewers are induced or coerced in some way to pirate the album, by a law enforcement official. Still though, it's not good way to make friends.

[NoPants]

not announcing it sounds very illegal.
it has to be entrapment or something. correct me if im wrong.
Youd' be wrong. Entrapment first typically involves law enforcement officials and, at any rate, in no way is being given a promotional CD the same as being induced to commit a crime.

[theGrue]

Yeah, sad it has to come to this, but if this is what it takes to get money back to the bands that really deserve it, then it's a must.
Ahahahahhahahhahahahahahhahahahah.

[turbonium]

thats actually against the law. they legally have to say they are watermarking it.

[JOJOFACE]

I don't understand how this would work. If I get a promo CD, stick it into my EAC, rip it into .wav, and then convert it into MP3, there is NO WAY for a watermark to be carried over. I assume this would only happen to someone dense enough to import their promo CD onto their 'puter using iTunes.

[kirbs84]

not announcing it sounds very illegal.
it has to be entrapment or something. correct me if im wrong.

Why should they have to tell people not to do something they already know is illegal?

[turbonium]

not announcing it sounds very illegal.
it has to be entrapment or something. correct me if im wrong.


dude your right it is illegal... i can't remember the exact term but it is completely illegal.
they techincally can't do shit if you get caught, if they are dumb enough to break the law themselves

[concretedetail]

Uh Oh

[turbonium]

I don't understand how this would work. If I get a promo CD, stick it into my EAC, rip it into .wav, and then into MP3, there is NO WAY for a watermark to be carried over. I assume this would only happen to someone dense enough to import their promo CD onto their 'puter using iTunes.


its called an audio watermark... set of frequencies in certain orders that ears can barely hear becaue of the high/low freq... and the volume of them.

[Jason Tate]

I don't understand how this would work. If I get a promo CD, stick it into my EAC, rip it into .wav, and then convert it into MP3, there is NO WAY for a watermark to be carried over. I assume this would only happen to someone dense enough to import their promo CD onto their 'puter using iTunes.
That's so not true.

[Jason Tate]

dude your right it is illegal... i can't remember the exact term but it is completely illegal.
they techincally can't do shit if you get caught, if they are dumb enough to break the law themselves
I'm curious how .. it's just a frequency in the back of an album .. sin-wave manipulation or something. Promo copies are all "property of the record label and must be returned at any time" anyways .. or whatever.

[JOJOFACE]

I suppose that could be true. ;_;

[turbonium]

I'm curious how .. it's just a frequency in the back of an album .. sin-wave manipulation or something. Promo copies are all "property of the record label and must be returned at any time" anyways .. or whatever.

yeah i've notice they say that.... and you have to give it back to them on request...
technically the label owns it and they are loaning it to you indefinitly...

i think that there is tons of money in making products to add watermarks on the fly.

[romantic rights]

I thought the new "thing" in the industry was jewish rappers.
not funny.

[Jason Tate]

yeah i've notice they say that.... and you have to give it back to them on request...
technically the label owns it and they are loaning it to you indefinitly...

i think that there is tons of money in making products to add watermarks on the fly.
Hah, never had anyone ask for one back though.

Labels should just release fake tracklistings on every promo, make it different on every album, totally fuck with everyone involved. Haha.

[xearlynovemberx]

fuck that shit

[turbonium]

Hah, never had anyone ask for one back though.

Labels should just release fake tracklistings on every promo, make it different on every album, totally fuck with everyone involved. Haha.

Yeah and change the spelling on the names or shit.... add random shit
yeah i don't think any labels would ask them back... unless its like what happened with (i think it was fiona apple) that one lady who made that cd and then the label dropped it... then they requested all the albums back because it got released all over the net... then all the sudden they found out how well it did on the net and then they decided to release it.

meh... your lucky you get shit without asking... i usually have to ask for stuff to review....

i remember when circa's cd was leaked and it was watermarked and greg of EVR was pissed and found out who it was.... cuz of the watermarking...

[jfb392]

They should leave that off the new new TEN and leak it as soon as its all mastered.
On topic: Good, it's really the only way to stop it.

[turbonium]

They should leave that off the new new TEN and leak it as soon as its all mastered.
On topic: Good, it's really the only way to stop it.

you can't stop it

just scare ppl enough not to do it.

[Nick Lopez]

I don't really understand what this means.

[jfb392]

you can't stop it

just scare ppl enough not to do it.No, I'm sure you could find the frequency in an editor, just not remove it, since it's probably the same as part of the music.

[Jason Tate]

you can't stop it

just scare ppl enough not to do it.
Well put

[Jason Tate]

Yeah and change the spelling on the names or shit.... add random shit
yeah i don't think any labels would ask them back... unless its like what happened with (i think it was fiona apple) that one lady who made that cd and then the label dropped it... then they requested all the albums back because it got released all over the net... then all the sudden they found out how well it did on the net and then they decided to release it.

meh... your lucky you get shit without asking... i usually have to ask for stuff to review....

i remember when circa's cd was leaked and it was watermarked and greg of EVR was pissed and found out who it was.... cuz of the watermarking...
Yah, it's worse when your roomate installs limewire on his computer and shares his itunes folder.

Or interns steal cds and leak because they're spiteful little maggots.

[Shatter_Glass]

EVERYONE START POSTING LEAKS WHY YOU STILL CAN! Someone send me the FFtL FAST! ! !

[turbonium]

Yah, it's worse when your roomate installs limewire on his computer and shares his itunes folder.

Or interns steal cds and leak because they're spiteful little maggots.


yeah honestly leaking cd's has its bullshit side and i'd never leak music out of respect for the band/label if they trust you enough and are nice enought to actually give you a FREE copy BEFORE it comes out.... they respect you... respect is what they deserve in return

the intern shit is just 100% bullshit... i don't get how those ppl can live with themselves for leaking shit.

I like Victory's approach how they stream it and dont' send actual albums... (you probably get actual copies.)

hmmmph...

[jfb392]

yeah honestly leaking cd's has its bullshit side and i'd never leak music out of respect for the band/label if they trust you enough and are nice enought to actually give you a FREE copy BEFORE it comes out.... they respect you... respect is what they deserve in returnRight, you hear it before everyone and you're getting it for free, the least you could do is keep it to yourself.
I mean, if you didn't leak anything, wouldn't you think they would trust you more and send you even more advances?
Probably.

[Jason Tate]

Right, you hear it before everyone and you're getting it for free, the least you could do is keep it to yourself.
I mean, if you didn't leak anything, wouldn't you think they would trust you more and send you even more advances?
Probably.
Listening to a lot of ants? Haha..

[elvis]

nice

[jfb392]

Listening to a lot of ants? Haha..Yes, it's a good song.
I want FD and Punchline something bad.

In other piracy news: What happened with APIRC?
I know it was shutdown, but can they be charged for fraud, etc. since they used your actual contact information?

[s.deel.besonym]

*sigh*

Wonderful.

Since when did your "industry" include Virgin Records? Right. Always thought our industry was bands who worked their asses off and toured and sold their shit at shows to kids who thought they deserved to have the money after a live show. Thought it was about integrity and bypassing all this bullshit that comes with major labels.

Oh well, if Virgin is doing it, it must be the industry, right?

[s.deel.besonym]

Yes, it's a good song.
I want FD and Punchline something bad.

In other piracy news: What happened with APIRC?
I know it was shutdown, but can they be charged for fraud, etc. since they used your actual contact information?
APIRC was shut down because someone started talking to Tate about legal repurcussions and, since it's not his deal, he obviously wanted it dead. Karma. The people at that channel were douches. Good riddance.

[Rohan Kohli]

*sigh*

Wonderful.

Since when did your "industry" include Virgin Records? Right. Always thought our industry was bands who worked their asses off and toured and sold their shit at shows to kids who thought they deserved to have the money after a live show. Thought it was about integrity and bypassing all this bullshit that comes with major labels.

Oh well, if Virgin is doing it, it must be the industry, right?

The Starting Line and Over It haven't worked their asses off?

[jfb392]

APIRC was shut down because someone started talking to Tate about legal repurcussions and, since it's not his deal, he obviously wanted it dead. Karma. The people at that channel were douches. Good riddance.I know, but wouldn't fraud or other charges apply here?
It's like they were out to get him, just set him up and have someone blow them in.

[Emopunkthrice]

doesn't really bother me, as long as it doesn't do anything to my computer, I don't mind if it busts anyone.

[s.deel.besonym]

The Starting Line and Over It haven't worked their asses off?
TSL, no. Over It, yes. When TSL puts out 5 CDs, I'll welcome them to major label "fame."

But with that said, Silverstrand blew goat balls compared to their old music.

I still think major label attention ruins bands left and right.

[shtjames]

I thought the new "thing" in the industry was jewish rappers.

hahaha more truth has never been spoken

[rickyterror]

wait didnt jason leak a watermarked copy of boys night out's cd? is HE the pirate? i know ill be locking up my treasure thats for sure.

[Darren McLeod]

all of the watermarked CDs i've ever had haven't even played on my computer, so this confuses me.

[Rufio21]

yeah honestly leaking cd's has its bullshit side and i'd never leak music out of respect for the band/label if they trust you enough and are nice enought to actually give you a FREE copy BEFORE it comes out.... they respect you... respect is what they deserve in return

the intern shit is just 100% bullshit... i don't get how those ppl can live with themselves for leaking shit.

I like Victory's approach how they stream it and dont' send actual albums... (you probably get actual copies.)

hmmmph...

I hate vicotry for sending shitty copies. They send actual copies once and awhile, but they are usually just promos. I usually never review cds that arent actual the finished cds. I just dont feel the need to review something if its just on a silver disc with the name on it. If I get a copy months before advance then the disc with just the band name on it is alright.

If they dont trust you not to leak it, they shouldnt send you promos. Its a privelege to get them, you shouln't waste it by leaking cds.

[timmysavedlatin]

what about the fact that many promo copies end up in used bins at indie record stores? will the watermark only be valid if the cd is LEAKED prior to the release date or will they still go after you if you just put it on your computer after you buy it from a record store used bin after the release date?

i feel like i worded that really shitty. hm.

[pace_yourself]

if anything cant the label see who leaked the water marked copie and then just stop sending that person copies so they at least will know who they trush and who not to

[foisol]

Bands in debt = no bands at all.

I think something needs to be done... it's sad that something good (mp3's) and helpful for promoting yourself, being heard and trying something out is taking money out of the pockets of record labels, which in turn take even more money (if they even give any in the first place) to the artists.

Popular entertainers get paid a lot in the United States, everyone knows that. I think our favorite bands deserve that as well

[foisol]

what about the fact that many promo copies end up in used bins at indie record stores? will the watermark only be valid if the cd is LEAKED prior to the release date or will they still go after you if you just put it on your computer after you buy it from a record store used bin after the release date?

i feel like i worded that really shitty. hm.

I don't think promo copies are supposed to end up in used bins.

[JunkBondTrader]

in my own opinion I think that is bullshit. At least tell them its watermarked. You cant set someone up to commit a crime. Its immoral. And while its wrong for people to pirate and leak cds, 2 wrongs dont make a right. Its like when the cops set up a bike in a shit neighborhood and then sit and wait for some homeless person to take it just so they can arrest them. Its wrong.

[estrella starr]

I don't think promo copies are supposed to end up in used bins.


they arent.

[Tony]

good. fuck anyone that distributes a promo copy...let alone ANY copy!

[gregplaysdrums]

I don't think promo copies are supposed to end up in used bins.

they do end up there though...

[luca]

pirate cds are the most common thing here,you can see people selling them everywhere,people here don't have money to buy imported cds, so its easier to buy pirates. I really dont know who is wrong...

[forumreader]

TSL, no. Over It, yes. When TSL puts out 5 CDs, I'll welcome them to major label "fame."

But with that said, Silverstrand blew goat balls compared to their old music.

I still think major label attention ruins bands left and right.

If it was up to them, TSL would probably have about 10 albums out by now.

[Sycro]

They've been doing this for at least a year.... well, Geffen has been.

[emptyvictory]

ALRIGHT, its about time, nail them bastards!

[still]

everyone that is saying shit like the poster above: do you really think we believe you've never downloaded a cd in your life? bullshit.

[SummerxStars]

there would have been a lot of cds that i wouldnt have gone out and bought if it hadnt leaked online first, but i understand that not everyone goes out and buys them

[Big_Guy]

This is just another trick for shitty labels to get you to buy their shitty band's cds instead of downloading them early.

[HiddenInNJ]

so do watermark copies follow who they get leaked to or only the source and the amount of times leaked. I have received two before and have only listened to them in my car so im confused i guess a lot of assholes send it all over their computer which is retarded

[looram12]

I say pirate everything, free enterprise man, if your standing in the way of progress you should get knocked down. if they want to stop piracy they should stop carrying around so much treasure

[zizou1790]

i get all my cds early online for the most part but i honestly wouldnt mind that much waiting for them and just going out and buying them as long as the label isnt Drive-Thru and they dont take years to release the music

[ACA]

I'm going to explain why advance water marks are in existance, however. This is an extremely simple example:

Record Label Alpha has 25 advance CDs of Big Band Beta. Big Band Beta is going to be the next hit, and Record Label Alpha knows it. Now these 25 advance CDs don't get tossed out into the mail, arriving in 25 random locations. Each CD is strategically placed: one is sent to New York Radio Station Gamma, one is sent to Los Angeles Radio Station Delta, et cetera.

Advance #1 of BBB is sent to New York. The AUDIO content on this CD is now mixed with a special AUDIO content that YOU CANNOT HEAR. Imagine a dog whistle: the sound exists, but human ears cannot hear it. This audio content for New York Radio Station Gamma is special.. the advance to LA Delta, for example, will be different.

Now, the CD arrives in every radio station (and other promotional place). The DJ at Phoenix Radio Station Epsilon gets the CD of Big Band Beta: he loves the band, and decides to give it to his friend. His friend takes the CD, and rips it (using ANY ripping tool: Winamp, Windows Media Player, CDex, EAC, iTunes --- WHATEVER).

He then sends these files via AIM to his friend. This friend shares them on Kazaa, and sudenly the files are now on the open seas of Internet file-sharing. One person has the files, then two, then four, then sixteen; it grows amazingly quick in a matter of hours.

Record Label Alpha's executive wakes up in the morning and finds out that on AbsolutePunk.net kids are talking about how much they love BBB's new CD. Intrigued (and sufficiently angry), Record Label Alpha now downloads these files.

Upon downloading them, he compares the audio content. He then uses a machine to test WHICH ADVANCE these files were leaked from.

The inaudible watermark pattern is found to match up with Phoenix Radio Station Epsilon; the record company now knows exactly which radio station leaked their CD onto the Internet.

From there, Record Label Alpha now has many options, including follow-up investigations which can lead to law suits or simply never letting Phoenix Radio Station Epsilon from ever getting another advance from them again.

That's how that works.

As for the methods: no matter how you rip the album (line-in for wav capture or directly from the wav content of the CD), and no matter what program, you can't filter out the audio watermark. So there is no bypassing this. This watermark in no way prevents transfer of the files via any Internet sharing method, rather, it easily allows for indentification of who leaked the original file.


Just a reminder, since a few people here think they can "beat" the watermark.

-ACA

[SwedishHeat]

I really don't care about this. Once a band I really like starts saying "Please don't download our CD", I'll think about it. All the CDs I like, I buy anyways.

Why should I wait until the release date to get a CD?? So, the record label has sufficient time to hype a CD?? Oh yeah, because I'll enjoy it so much better after two months of hype.

[elemenohpe]

retails will still leak eventually.

[John-Michael]

I really don't care about this. Once a band I really like starts saying "Please don't download our CD", I'll think about it. All the CDs I like, I buy anyways.

Why should I wait until the release date to get a CD?? So, the record label has sufficient time to hype a CD?? Oh yeah, because I'll enjoy it so much better after two months of hype.

Saddly kiddo hype is how you make a CD fly off the shelves. Leaks hurt some bands, cause most of the children who download records don't buy them. I can promise you that most of the target readership of this site (14 to 19 year olds into pop punk) has not dropped the money to have HALF of the music in their Last.fm's. They think buying a shirt is going to help a band that has a 10,000 to 350,000 debt they owe to their label for the marketing of a record that their "fans" stole. Music these days is about hording. Kids download everything they can, and then share it. They download so much that there is no way they could ever buy everything they liked.

I'm sick of kids fucking over bands because they want to look like "Johnny knows it all" when it comes to the scene. I dont think everyone needs to have dropped the money for the 500 to 600 cd's and 150 lp's I had before I started writing for a zine and getting promos. I just wish you guys would be a little more honest and stop saying you "support the albums you like."

If that shit was true Acceptance would be where Fall Out Boy is now and vice versa.

[SwedishHeat]

So, are you trying to say that Acceptance is in debt to their label??

If that's the case, I'll go buy two more copies and send them to friends.

I really don't know what to say for Acceptance. When AP.net posted that Sims version of This Conversation Is Over, I thought it was great, found the CD on the net, listened to it, thought it was all fantastic, and went straight to their website and pre-ordered it straight from the label, and told all my friends to go buy the CD. That's how I roll.

I don't go to shows and buy t-shirts. So, I pay for my CDs, I figure that's a fair trade-off.

[seancoia]

what about the fact that many promo copies end up in used bins at indie record stores? will the watermark only be valid if the cd is LEAKED prior to the release date or will they still go after you if you just put it on your computer after you buy it from a record store used bin after the release date?

i feel like i worded that really shitty. hm.

thats what i was thinking. this store in philly does that ALL the time.

[John-Michael]

So, are you trying to say that Acceptance is in debt to their label??

If that's the case, I'll go buy two more copies and send them to friends.

I really don't know what to say for Acceptance. When AP.net posted that Sims version of This Conversation Is Over, I thought it was great, found the CD on the net, listened to it, thought it was all fantastic, and went straight to their website and pre-ordered it straight from the label, and told all my friends to go buy the CD. That's how I roll.

I don't go to shows and buy t-shirts. So, I pay for my CDs, I figure that's a fair trade-off.
And you are awesome for it! And while I do not know Acceptance personally, their label spent a ton of money (read*Wasted*) trying to do "market research" to get "Different" on the radio. I think that was a killer single. But it's a follow up single! The band pays for all that market research. Most bands are in debt because, at the end of the day labels make their money first. Google the word recoupable expenses... or just read this

Any money given to talent and any expenses incurred are deducted from royalties. Recoupable expenses may never have actually occured. Packaging and breakage are examples. Profit is also part of overhead so many expenses are charged to Talent at inflated rates. Studio time is a good example. Labels use these recoupable costs as a way to enhance revenue at the Talent's expense.

[AndrewC12]

TSL, no. Over It, yes. When TSL puts out 5 CDs, I'll welcome them to major label "fame."

But with that said, Silverstrand blew goat balls compared to their old music.

I still think major label attention ruins bands left and right.
I own 5 TSL CD's and in my view they've put in plenty of hard work.

[ForeverInADay]

Even though I've never leaked a CD before, I'm worried that it might happen accidentally or something hahaha

Probably not..my computer doesn't even work..

[_all_star_me_]

i say good. i think people should wait for the tuesdays and head down and buy it rather than copy it.

[AmandaLynn]

This is just another trick for shitty labels to get you to buy their shitty band's cds instead of downloading them early.


uhm... yes?

[dukeboy1986]

Yeah, considering the Starting Line has been touring steadily for the past 4 years in support of their albums, I think they have done PLENTY of hardwork. Anyways, do you really think it is fair to the band whose album is being leaked? I know for me personally that I like to be excited for a band's new release and don't really want to heart a leaked version. True while it may be useful to know whether you like the band's new material or not, to me, it just takes away from the excitement of the new album. That's just my two cents about leaked copies. I also feel that it's disrespectful to the band's who have invested their time and money into making a new record to just have it released 6 months earlier then expected (Acceptance is being used in this example). Finally, I just think it is the ethical choice to make these days. Our society has started to shun ethics and it kind of shows with something as simple as leaking a band's property a long time before it is supposed to be released. My two cents, you don't have to agree, but please don't tell me what how wrong I am. The last time I checked this is an OPINION website and OPINIONS aren't wrong, they are just the perspective of the individual. Just being defensive in advance.:)

[AmandaLynn]

I hear the watermark is going to be a faint imagine of.....




You guessed it.......



PETE WENTZ'S WENIS!

<sarcasm>
wow. now that was funny.
</sarcasm>

[robsmith]

I'm curious how .. it's just a frequency in the back of an album .. sin-wave manipulation or something. Promo copies are all "property of the record label and must be returned at any time" anyways .. or whatever.

yeah, you'd have to go to the frequency domain and bandstop the modulated frequency that the information is encoded at. my guess is it would be right around 20 kHz. it'd be pretty easy

[Russ Hockenbury]

Saddly kiddo hype is how you make a CD fly off the shelves. Leaks hurt some bands, cause most of the children who download records don't buy them. I can promise you that most of the target readership of this site (14 to 19 year olds into pop punk) has not dropped the money to have HALF of the music in their Last.fm's. They think buying a shirt is going to help a band that has a 10,000 to 350,000 debt they owe to their label for the marketing of a record that their "fans" stole. Music these days is about hording. Kids download everything they can, and then share it. They download so much that there is no way they could ever buy everything they liked.

I'm sick of kids fucking over bands because they want to look like "Johnny knows it all" when it comes to the scene. I dont think everyone needs to have dropped the money for the 500 to 600 cd's and 150 lp's I had before I started writing for a zine and getting promos. I just wish you guys would be a little more honest and stop saying you "support the albums you like."

If that shit was true Acceptance would be where Fall Out Boy is now and vice versa.

This guy says what most of us are thinking. I've written for Upbeetmusic for three years and have collected over 400 promos in that amount of time. I still haven't ever listened to half of the bands in a number of your last.fm playlists. Perfect example, up until a few weeks ago, I had never listened to a second of Panic! At The Disco.

There is NO way kids can afford to buy all of the music they download. It's likely only roughly around 10 to 20% (and that's being generous).

[almostbrian]

Probably the best news all year. Wish they did that with my band's new record.

[lou<>phillips]

not funny.

Yeah it is.

[dontfront]

Saddly kiddo hype is how you make a CD fly off the shelves. Leaks hurt some bands, cause most of the children who download records don't buy them. I can promise you that most of the target readership of this site (14 to 19 year olds into pop punk) has not dropped the money to have HALF of the music in their Last.fm's. They think buying a shirt is going to help a band that has a 10,000 to 350,000 debt they owe to their label for the marketing of a record that their "fans" stole. Music these days is about hording. Kids download everything they can, and then share it. They download so much that there is no way they could ever buy everything they liked.

I'm sick of kids fucking over bands because they want to look like "Johnny knows it all" when it comes to the scene. I dont think everyone needs to have dropped the money for the 500 to 600 cd's and 150 lp's I had before I started writing for a zine and getting promos. I just wish you guys would be a little more honest and stop saying you "support the albums you like."

If that shit was true Acceptance would be where Fall Out Boy is now and vice versa.


Well put... I hate Mr. and Mrs. "Johnny knows it all's"...

[JackBauer]

Its called entrapment

[forumreader]

Its called entrapment

It is in no way entrapment, what is so hard about this concept for many of you to understand? All they are doing is personalizing the music they are sending you with information specific to you.

[feigningapology]

what about the fact that many promo copies end up in used bins at indie record stores? will the watermark only be valid if the cd is LEAKED prior to the release date or will they still go after you if you just put it on your computer after you buy it from a record store used bin after the release date?

i feel like i worded that really shitty. hm.

From what I've seen here in Eugene, OR, the same thing happens here frequently. I've seen a lot of Victory promo copy releases in two used indie stores. I actually bought used Hurt Process and Premonitions of War promo copies after they came out for like $1 at said stores. I've also seen Eisley Room Noises, GOB, Wakefield, and other various other promo copies being put up for sale. I hope that buying these promos post release and putting them on my computer won't do anything as I actually paid for them.

[FailedSenses]

From what I've seen here in Eugene, OR, the same thing happens here frequently. I've seen a lot of Victory promo copy releases in two used indie stores. I actually bought used Hurt Process and Premonitions of War promo copies after they came out for like $1 at said stores. I've also seen Eisley Room Noises, GOB, Wakefield, and other various other promo copies being put up for sale. I hope that buying these promos post release and putting them on my computer won't do anything as I actually paid for them.

No you're safe... it's only if you put them on your computer then send them to someone else and they send they to someone else....so on and so forth. If you keep the files to yourself then you're fine.

I'm tired of this downloading argument. It's just bullshit to say that every kid that downloads the album would have bought the album. It's so arbitrary. I know that there is a portion of downloaders that overlap this category and would have bought the album if they hadn't downloaded it. If you like it enough to give it more than one play... you should buy it out of respect for the artist.

About the watermark... there should be a warning. I know it's not very good for labels when CDs get leaked... but there should be a warning in fine print or something. I mean, McDonald's has a warning on their damn coffee cups telling you it's hot (I know it's to save their ass from idiots that sue for burning themselves, but...).

[thegamethelight]

I don't think promo copies are supposed to end up in used bins.

i remember way back when story of the year page avenue came out i went to my local record store and got it the day before it came out.

[Russ Hockenbury]

Promo copies aren't technically supposed to end up in used bins, however most do. What really pisses me off though, is when record stores try to sell the promos they got for free for $5, 6, or $7.

[dubey]

It is in no way entrapment, what is so hard about this concept for many of you to understand? All they are doing is personalizing the music they are sending you with information specific to you.
I don't think anyone in this thread actually knows what entrapment means. Probably just heard it on Judge Judy or something. The only way this could be considered entrapment is if the label encouraged them to distribute the advanced copy.

[FOBlover]

what about the fact that many promo copies end up in used bins at indie record stores? will the watermark only be valid if the cd is LEAKED prior to the release date or will they still go after you if you just put it on your computer after you buy it from a record store used bin after the release date?

i feel like i worded that really shitty. hm.

Most advances do not end up in used bins, since most of them do not include full art like promos do.