The Republican Party

[Love As Arson]

With the recurrence of the birther movement within the party and the attacking of Obama on his answer regarding Professor Gates, they've just decided to make themselves irrelevant, right?

[derekmoyer4]

i laugh at the republican party.

[loveisdead]

They certainly aren't going to pick up any new faces. The thing they'll have going for them is exploiting deficit spending. I think a lot of independents will eat that up.

[GuitarR0cker1]

There certainly is a huge wing of the Republican Party that are lunatics but the leadership is actually doing quite well in recruiting moderate and/or appealing candidates for seats. That is really all that matters for the moment. Of course southern idiots will still be southern idiots but by 2010 the party should start to be coming back swinging. They will face some problems once the economy starts recovering but it won't take long for them to restructure themselves on everything. After 2012 or 2014 they will probably have a resurgent moderate wing, a decent outreach to latinos, college grads and the youth. There main problem is going to be keeping the inbred yokels in line while this change happens.

[loveisdead]

There certainly is a huge wing of the Republican Party that are lunatics but the leadership is actually doing quite well in recruiting moderate and/or appealing candidates for seats. That is really all that matters for the moment. Of course southern idiots will still be southern idiots but by 2010 the party should start to be coming back swinging. They will face some problems once the economy starts recovering but it won't take long for them to restructure themselves on everything. After 2012 or 2014 they will probably have a resurgent moderate wing, a decent outreach to latinos, college grads and the youth. There main problem is going to be keeping the inbred yokels in line while this change happens.
Can't say I agree with this in any way shape or form. I think they'll pick up seats in 2010 because a good chunk of people are disappointed with Obama/the democratic congress, but what appealing candidates have you seen to run against Obama in 2012? They've got nothing. You're right about them facing more problems with the economy turns around which will put them at an even bigger disadvantage. They're going to get latinos and women? :lol: That's the most laughable thing in the world. You need to look no further than their treatment of Sotomayor to realize that they aren't picking up any women or latinos.

[xshady121]

This is a pretty telling article. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240529702035173045743041613 89163586.html

On Monday, the Washington Post/ABC poll reported that 49% of Americans approve of his handling of health care while 44% disapprove. What many people missed is that those who strongly disapprove of the president’s approach on health care now outnumber those who strongly approve by 33% to 25%. That presages further decline. Already, 49% of independents disapprove of the president’s approach, up from 30% in April, a staggering shift in 11 weeks.

Mr. Obama is also slipping on the economy. Those who strongly disapprove now outnumber those who strongly approve of his handling of the economy (35% to 29%), of deficits (38% to 19%), and of unemployment (31% to 26%). On Tuesday, Gallup showed Mr. Obama’s personal approval was 55%, down from more than 60% a few weeks ago and lower than the 56% George W. Bush had at this point in his first term.

The key is the independants. Keep them happy and you win elections.

[Love As Arson]

I imagine any victory won't be sustainable as a result of generational shifts. Are the republicans actually going to support gay marriage, something which is supported by those in our generation?

[GuitarR0cker1]

Can't say I agree with this in any way shape or form. I think they'll pick up seats in 2010 because a good chunk of people are disappointed with Obama/the democratic congress, but what appealing candidates have you seen to run against Obama in 2012? They've got nothing. You're right about them facing more problems with the economy turns around which will put them at an even bigger disadvantage. They're going to get latinos and women? :lol: That's the most laughable thing in the world. You need to look no further than their treatment of Sotomayor to realize that they aren't picking up any women or latinos.
They don't have any appealing candidates to run against Obama in 2012. I said their comeback will come after that. Have you even been focusing on the 2010/2009 races? Almost of the candidates they have recruited or tried to recruit have been top tier. Their comeback should start in gubernatorial races in 2009 and 2010 from there they will just go up. Right now they look pathetic and are pathetic. What the hell? I said that they will make gains among latinos in the future because they will have an outreach for them IN THE FUTURE. Of course most of the idiot southernors are going bitch and complain but the party establishment will start getting there. Like I said most of this will happen in the future and right now the groundwork is being laid with new candidates. There is no fucking way the GOP is just going to continue acting like a spoiled child, and stomping its feet and saying no to everything the Democrats propose.

Anyways I can't agree with you more that the current Republican Party is a mess except for a few exceptions. I am saying there will be a comeback. Democrats need to stop acting all triumphant over them and need to start preparing for this. There are some major weaknesses in the party that will bite us in the ass in the future.

[Love As Arson]

This is a pretty telling article. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240529702035173045743041613 89163586.html



The key is the independants. Keep them happy and you win elections.

I agree with the speech being unimpressive. I doubt republicans will be the default, though. The performance of both parties makes me wish we had more third parties.

[loveisdead]

They don't have any appealing candidates to run against Obama in 2012. I said their comeback will come after that. Have you even been focusing on the 2010/2009 races? Almost of the candidates they have recruited or tried to recruit have been top tier. Their comeback should start in gubernatorial races in 2009 and 2010 from there they will just go up. Right now they look pathetic and are pathetic. What the hell? I said that they will make gains among latinos in the future because they will have an outreach for them IN THE FUTURE. Of course most of the idiot southernors are going bitch and complain but the party establishment will start getting there. Like I said most of this will happen in the future and right now the groundwork is being laid with new candidates. There is no fucking way the GOP is just going to continue acting like a spoiled child, and stomping its feet and saying no to everything the Democrats propose.

Anyways I can't agree with you more that the current Republican Party is a mess except for a few exceptions. I am saying there will be a comeback. Democrats need to stop acting all triumphant over them and need to start preparing for this. There are some major weaknesses in the party that will bite us in the ass in the future.
I said they'll do well in 2010. By future I thought you meant 2012. Future is a pretty broad timeframe.

[GuitarR0cker1]

I imagine any victory won't be sustainable as a result of generational shifts. Are the republicans actually going to support gay marriage, something which is supported by those in our generation?
They will start moderating for sure. The fiscal "conservatives" in the party don't really care much I suspect and just play that card for evangelical support. Once it becomes apparent that it is unpopular to go against gay rights the party will slowly go kicking and screaming into the future. The Christian Right will hate this but it isn't like they could turn to anyone else. By the time a majority supports gay marriage 10+ years from now the Democrats should be firmly in support of it. I could see them having issues because of how polarizing it is getting though. Red states barely are moving to the left while blue states are barelling forward on this issue.

[xshady121]

I agree with the speech being unimpressive. I doubt republicans will be the default, though. The performance of both parties makes me wish we had more third parties.

I absolutley agree with you here. If anything, a growing unease with the majority party, coupled with a lack of faith in the minority party could lead to another 1992 type election.

I think it's absoluetly moronic the repubs don't use this as a time to retool their image. Going with a losing strategy, and worse, trying to give a voice to the anchor that is sarah palin.

[GuitarR0cker1]

I said they'll do well in 2010. By future I thought you meant 2012. Future is a pretty broad timeframe.
I think they will do well in 2010 too, probably much better than expected. In 2012 they will have a shitty year, most likely barring the possiblity of an extremely sluggish economy or succesful populist platform with some new ideas(because unemployment rates will still most likely not be doing so well). After that the big changes should start to happen...

[Love As Arson]

They will start moderating for sure. The fiscal "conservatives" in the party don't really care much I suspect and just play that card for evangelical support. Once it becomes apparent that it is unpopular to go against gay rights the party will slowly go kicking and screaming into the future. The Christian Right will hate this but it isn't like they could turn to anyone else. By the time a majority supports gay marriage 10+ years from now the Democrats should be firmly in support of it. I could see them having issues because of how polarizing it is getting though. Red states barely are moving to the left while blue states are barelling forward on this issue.
Even on economic issues, there is a shift leftward. I think we are heading for an orientation in which our political paradigm has completely shifted.

[xshady121]

They will start moderating for sure. The fiscal "conservatives" in the party don't really care much I suspect and just play that card for evangelical support. Once it becomes apparent that it is unpopular to go against gay rights the party will slowly go kicking and screaming into the future. The Christian Right will hate this but it isn't like they could turn to anyone else. By the time a majority supports gay marriage 10+ years from now the Democrats should be firmly in support of it. I could see them having issues because of how polarizing it is getting though. Red states barely are moving to the left while blue states are barelling forward on this issue.

You are painting too much in just black and white. Gay marriage is far from a black and white issue. First off, support of it isn't as rosy as you make it sound. Don't forget, the most liberal state in the union overturned gay marriage last year. And then there is that pesky DOMA to deal with. While I agree gays will get rights (sooner rather than later), I don't think you'll be looking at much more than modified civil unions, granting some rights where their aren't any and being federally recognized. I think this idea of gay marriage one day (in the near future) being 100% allowed is too optimistic of an outlook.

[loveisdead]

Even on economic issues, there is a shift leftward. I think we are heading for an orientation in which our political paradigm has completely shifted.
I don't think there is anymore. Their entire platform now is to attack taxing, spending, the stimulus and the rest of Obama's agenda.

[Love As Arson]

I don't think there is anymore. Their entire platform now is to attack taxing, spending, the stimulus and the rest of Obama's agenda.
The recent crisis has sort of shattered any advocacy of truly free markets. The left will always remind the public of what happened when we had eight years of loose regulations.

[loveisdead]

The recent crisis has sort of shattered any advocacy of truly free markets. The left will always remind the public of what happened when we had eight years of loose regulations.
That's a really good point. I wonder how long they could fall back on the Bush years though. 4 or 5 months into Obama's presidency and people were already saying he had to stop complaining about getting dealt shitty cards from Bush.

[J.C.]

I could see the Dems splintering at some point as the tent is perceived as having grown too big. I think we'll see the emergence of a new party some time down the line.

The Republicans will have no future long-term until they bail on the wedge issues and a legitimate leader step ups who has credibility with young people and is capable of taking on the bigots/crazies in the party. I won't hold my breath though. The tendency of the Republican party is to fall in line, not to have someone completely upset the applecart.

[GuitarR0cker1]

Even on economic issues, there is a shift leftward. I think we are heading for an orientation in which our political paradigm has completely shifted.
As much as I want to agree with you, I can't. I think there will be a return to lots of economic populist but that really isn't a leftward shift. I think for right now too much of the working class isn't really leftist at all and has been basically brainwashed by the Republican Party. At the same time white collar workers don't seem to be moving in a direction that would be very receptive to leftist thought.

I don't know I would love for America to have an active union presence again and have real progressive ideas gain traction in the Democratic Party.

[GuitarR0cker1]

I could see the Dems splintering at some point as the tent is perceived as having grown too big. I think we'll see the emergence of a new party some time down the line.

The Republicans will have no future long-term until they bail on the wedge issues and a legitimate leader step ups who has credibility with young people and is capable of taking on the bigots/crazies in the party. I won't hold my breath though. The tendency of the Republican party is to fall in line, not to have someone completely upset the applecart.
When tents grow to big normally there are defections to the other party, not anything close to a permanent splinterting. I could see the blue dogs and their constituents moving towards the Republicans in sizeable numbers if Obama continues his moves further away from the center. That would complete the move away from the Democrats among southern whites.

That would open up the posibility for big changes with the Republicans. I think the intellectuals in the party want to ditch lots of social conservative and have some semi new ideas. If there is movement from southern whites that makes them registered as Republicans(there are still lots of dixiecrats that still vote for the odd Democrat, yet still haven't changed parties) so they can vote in more primaries there could be a big disruption in a long term revival of the party. Even if the Republicans move slightly to the left on economics it really wouldn't give them votes in a long term way.

[J.C.]

The Republicans are not operating in a matter that is conducive to bringing new people into the fold. They've been doing their best trying to push out the moderates who still associate with the party. A change of direction in the Republican party platform will be necessary(completely away from the social stuff and centered around economic issues), but they're too tied to the religious nuts for that to occur anytime soon.

I think we're at a new point in time where the emergence of a 3rd party is much more possible than ever. I think you not only see disgust with both parties, but also disgust with having a two party system in general.

[GuitarR0cker1]

The Republicans are not operating in a matter that is conducive to bringing new people into the fold. They've been doing their best trying to push out the moderates who still associate with the party. A change of direction in the Republican party platform will be necessary(completely away from the social stuff and centered around economic issues), but they're too tied to the religious nuts for that to occur anytime soon.

I think we're at a new point in time where the emergence of a 3rd party is much more possible than ever. I think you not only see disgust with both parties, but also disgust with having a two party system in general.
People always say that, it never pans out. The only way we could have a 3rd party become huge again is if one of the parties implodes and then that third party becomes a part of the two party system. Our system was set up for two parties, the electoral college basically makes it impossible for 3 parties to exist simultaneously for more than an election cycle. Besides there really isn't much disgust with both parties. Yeah if you took an average person off the street they would show no good feelings toward either party but we are in a recession and the government really hasn't taken much action to help the common person.

Hmm that might be true for the above part but basically what I was saying is that with all of this southern democratic revolt, that people who believe in basically Republican-lite ideals and already vote for them on many levels will become part of the party. The party wouldn't shun them or their candidates but there would definitley be some infighting. Infighting in almost dead parties always happens. The direction the take after the infighting is what counts.

[Praetor]

I'm spoken my thoughts about a third party in length before but I'll keep it short this time: Americans are too lazy to go to a third party, people are too content (myself included) choosing the lesser of two evils. And if a third party does develop, it will be a 1992 kind of thing where it's one election cycle and they're done.

As far as this party goes, I don't know how many independents they have to alienate before they realize they're going in the wrong direction; political spectrum-wise. Maybe it would help if they actually stood for something instead of "not Obama".

[deanster321]

I'm spoken my thoughts about a third party in length before but I'll keep it short this time: Americans are too lazy to go to a third party, people are too content (myself included) choosing the lesser of two evils. And if a third party does develop, it will be a 1992 kind of thing where it's one election cycle and they're done.

As far as this party goes, I don't know how many independents they have to alienate before they realize they're going in the wrong direction; political spectrum-wise. Maybe it would help if they actually stood for something instead of "not Obama".
It's the same here for the most part. A real shame to say the least.

[saysmydoctor]

The Radical Center is even more irritating in my view.

I do think we can see the Blue Dogs splintering from the Democrats to form a Moderate party in the near future.