Henry Gates Jr.

[jawstheme]

Part of the disorderly conduct is exhibiting annoying behaviour, which is what Gates was arrested before. If that is the case, Glenn Beck could be arrested.

Hahaha, if only

[Love As Arson]

you could be the most intelligent idiot i've ever encountered. its a shame.
Ad hominem.

this entire scenario of injustice you've conjured sounds awful. its a relief that it didn't happen. gates wasn't treated like a criminal. end of story. thanks for playing.
Was he not arrested for protesting an authority figure asking him to prove he lived in his own home? I posted an article a few pages ago, in which the author rightly points out that minorities are constantly hounded to provide proof that they are in the right neighborhood, that the nice car belongs to them,etc.

[ghostyouare]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/24/officer.gates.arrest/index.html

The highlights to this piss me off.

Dom, are you hanging with me and eda on thursday?

[Love As Arson]

yeah it sure was inappropriate of them to investigate a robbery. you got me there.
No, it was wrong for the officer to treat Gates as he did.

[Love As Arson]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/24/officer.gates.arrest/index.html

The highlights to this piss me off.

Dom, are you hanging with me and eda on thursday?
I told her to text me to remind me. I also thought I'd given you my number, too. If not, I'll pm it.

[ghostyouare]

Police officers corroborating with other officers to protect them has NEVER happened in the history of police forces.
Does not mean that it happend in this case, hot shot.

[ghostyouare]

I told her to text me to remind me. I also thought I'd given you my number, too. If not, I'll pm it.
youdid but i have 3 names for you in my phone and im never sure which one is right.

Dom, dominique and wyldn dom.

[jawstheme]

Ad hominem.

Was he not arrested for protesting an authority figure asking him to prove he lived in his own home? I posted an article a few pages ago, in which the author rightly points out that minorities are constantly hounded to provide proof that they are in the right neighborhood, that the nice car belongs to them,etc.

When a cop is on a robbery or break in call I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for identification.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

No, it was wrong for the officer to treat Gates as he did.
ok chief. we aren't getting anywhere. lets try something else.
hypothetical:
you're a cop. you're in a neighborhood when a call comes over your radio of two men breaking into a nearby house. what would you have done?

[Love As Arson]

When a cop is on a robbery or break in call I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for identification.
In someone's home, I think it is. The burden of proof rests upon you to demonstrate why I am at the home.

youdid but i have 3 names for you in my phone and im never sure which one is right.

Dom, dominique and wyldn dom.
Whichever one was the last one I gave you.

ok chief. we aren't getting anywhere. lets try something else.
hypothetical:
you're a cop. you're in a neighborhood when a call comes over your radio of two men breaking into a nearby house. what would you have done?
If I were a cop, I would probably do the same thing. Not because it was right, but because these are the racist standards I'd probably have been indoctrinated with.

[ghostyouare]

In someone's home, I think it is. The burden of proof rests upon you to demonstrate why I am at the home.


Whichever one was the last one I gave you.


If I were a cop, I would probably do the same thing. Not because it was right, but because these are the racist standards I'd probably have been indoctrinated with.
probably wyldn dom. Ill call them all tonight, be ready.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

If I were a cop, I would probably do the same thing. Not because it was right, but because these are the racist standards I'd probably have been indoctrinated with.
so in your perfect world...
the cop should've simply asked gates if this was his house, taken his word and walked away?
that doesnt make sense.
here, let me fix your post.
If I were a cop, I would probably do the same thing. Not because it was right. but because this is the common sense I'd hopefully have been indoctrinated with.
thats better.

[Love As Arson]

so in your perfect world...
the cop should've simply asked gates if this was his house, taken his word and walked away?
that doesnt make sense.
In a perfect world, we would have gotten rid of stereotypes and cops wouldn't feel so free to abuse their authority, particularly towards minorities, because they'd be held accountable

[jawstheme]

In a perfect world, we would have gotten rid of stereotypes and cops wouldn't feel so free to abuse their authority, particularly towards minorities, because they'd be held accountable

If this guy was white and acted the same way do you think he would have gotten arrested? I see no reason to think the the cop was using racial stereotypes, he was just prideful and decided to abuse his power on someone irritating him.

[GeeBee]

I agree. But Gates did not help his cause by acting like a douche. I have already stated I believe Gates should not have been arrested. But it does not mean he acted correctly.
I agree, he could have handled the situation better...but I know too many cops who think it's a crime for people to not kiss their asses.

I've always been curious as to why it's conservatives(who piss and moan about how overbearing, unchecked, and intervening the power of the government is*) that generally side with law enforcement in situations where they arguably overstep their boundaries and/or abuse authority.

*unless they're in power

Ditto.

[saysmydoctor]

Does not mean that it happend in this case, hot shot.
It can never be proven to the contrary either, so it's irrelevant, which I guess is your point. I have my skepticism towards the report's integrity considering the officer's inappropriate/unjustifiable actions.

[saysmydoctor]

so in your perfect world...
the cop should've simply asked gates if this was his house, taken his word and walked away?
that doesnt make sense.
here, let me fix your post.

thats better.
The man presented identification. He should have apologized, then yes, walked away.

[SlappedActor]

The man presented identification. He should have apologized, then yes, walked away.

True. However, Gates began to cause a scene before he produced identification, so of course the officers are going to react to that. They'd be stupid not to. All of this could have been avoided if Gates had simply acted calmly.

[saysmydoctor]

All of this could have been avoided if the officer just allowed Gates to vent in frustration and apologized profusely and left. Gates reacted badly, yes, but understandably so.

[SlappedActor]

You're still ignoring the fact that Gates refused to initially show his ID, which is an entirely reasonable request under the circumstances. If Gates had produced identification and explained what he was doing, I imagine the cops would have apologized, wished him a good day, and left.

[Love As Arson]

If this guy was white and acted the same way do you think he would have gotten arrested?
No.

[ghostyouare]

All of this could have been avoided if the officer just allowed Gates to vent in frustration and apologized profusely and left. Gates reacted badly, yes, but understandably so.
There was NOTHING understandable about his reaction. You cant pin 300 years of racism on his reaction. He acted a fool and got busted for it.

[ghostyouare]

It can never be proven to the contrary either, so it's irrelevant, which I guess is your point. I have my skepticism towards the report's integrity considering the officer's inappropriate/unjustifiable actions.
No.

[saysmydoctor]

There was NOTHING understandable about his reaction. You cant pin 300 years of racism on his reaction. He acted a fool and got busted for it.
I definitely find his reaction more understandable than the unreasonable arrest.

[ghostyouare]

I definitely find his reaction more understandable than the unreasonable arrest.
Then you are a moron. The arrest was not going to happen without Gates reaction.

[Mitch]

This thread is really irritating.

[saysmydoctor]

Then you are a moron.
Ad hominem.

[ghostyouare]

Ad hominem.
I wasnt using this as an arguement. Pure fact.

[saysmydoctor]

I wasnt using this as an arguement. Pure fact.
I understand you don't like me, I don't particularly understand why you've held this particular grudge for what, two years now?, whatever. Fine. I get it.

But don't try to imply that I'm stupid. I'm not stupid. You don't agree with me, fine. But I'm not stupid/a moron.

[Jason Tate]

Keep in mind the officer thought you were trying to rob someone's home because people around your house didn't even recognize you...as you were looking through windows and trying to figure out how to get into a house.

The officer was not in the mindset that this man was the homeowner, he was in the mindset that the man he was talking to was in the house as a trespasser.
Doesn't matter what the officer thought. An officer can "think" I'm doing plenty of things ... what matters is what I'm actually doing.

[Jason Tate]

what part of this dont you get? he wasnt arrested for being in the house. he wasnt arrested for his initial uncooperative state. he wasnt arrested for insulting the officers in his home. he was arrested for continuing his tirade in public and causing a public disturbance DESPITE NUMEROUS WARNINGS. everything he did fits the definition of disorderly conduct perfectly.
you're right,what gates did DOES happen every friday in a college town. and guess what? those kids get arrested for disorderly conduct too. when its a college kid, nobody cares. but when its a respected black man, then suddenly the police are 'overstepping their boundaries'.
They don't get arrested.

[Jason Tate]

I'm surprised this thread raised so much controversy, didn't expect to see this much ignorance.
Thought the same thing when reading your original post.

[Jason Tate]

You're still ignoring the fact that Gates refused to initially show his ID, which is an entirely reasonable request under the circumstances. If Gates had produced identification and explained what he was doing, I imagine the cops would have apologized, wished him a good day, and left.
I'd tell a cop to fuck off if he asked me to produce ID before I could walk into my own home. I don't need someone's permission to be on my property.

Where are the anti-big-government Republicans for this?! This is their bread and butter. They don't like the shoe on the other foot.

[ghostyouare]

They don't get arrested.
Thats quite the assessment. I know quite a few cops, personally, that love to arrest people for stupid shit like that.

[SlappedActor]

They don't get arrested.

Lolwut

I'd tell a cop to fuck off if he asked me to produce ID before I could walk into my own home. I don't need someone's permission to be on my property.

Where are the anti-big-government Republicans for this?! This is their bread and butter. They don't like the shoe on the other foot.

Then what exactly should the police have done? Not responded to the call at all? Or just taken him at his word? Jesus Christ, if I could make a cop go away by telling him that he was on my personal property without showing my ID after he had been called to the scene, I'd be robbing houses all day long. The request for identification was 100% warranted, given the circumstances.

[Jason Tate]

Thats quite the assessment. I know quite a few cops, personally, that love to arrest people for stupid shit like that.
Then I hope they get sued for false arrest.

[Jason Tate]

Lolwut



Then what exactly should the police have done? Not responded to the call at all? Or just taken him at his word? Jesus Christ, if I could make a cop go away by telling him that he was on my personal property without showing my ID after he had been called to the scene, I'd be robbing houses all day long. The request for identification was 100% warranted, given the circumstances.
Standing outside a house trying to get in != robbing it.

[ghostyouare]

Standing outside a house trying to get in != robbing it.
I am confused by this post. Are you saying the cops should not have asked for Gates identification after responding to a reported break in?

[ghostyouare]

Doesn't matter what the officer thought. An officer can "think" I'm doing plenty of things ... what matters is what I'm actually doing.
It has nothing to do with what the officer thought but everything to do with why he was dispatched to the house. He did not just roll up to the house because he THOUGHT it was being robbed. He showed up to a house that had a reported break in. If you think asking for identification at this point is excessive abuse of power based on racial profiling motives then I am at a loss for words.

[simensays]

I can go through this and weed out most of the bullshit. Many wise white men came to the conclusion that "whites don't know what it's like to be a black person" and clearly so many of you fit those white people. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of whites that know exactly how Gates felt, including me, and many at this forum.

Exactly. The guy immediately starts screaming "Racist" when the police asked him for identification? Come on...

He wasn't arrested on charges of burglary or anything; it was disorderly conduct.

"He was booked for disorderly conduct after “exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior,” according to a police report. Gates accused the investigating officer of being a racist and told him he had "no idea who he was messing with,'' the report said. Gates told the officer that he was being targeted because "I'm a black man in America.''"


Gates had in his head once he saw the police that it was "racial profiling". I mean, it seems a bit ridiculous to me, to blindly defend Gates. I'm not saying the police were completely in the right, either, but I don't see how it's so obvious that the arrest was wrong.
This is you calling a well respected educated black man "the guy...screaming". You are trying to belittle him, which shows that you might very well be a racist.
I'm not going to assume you know how a black person feels when a situation like this arises. If a black man is trying to enter his own house, and any cop walks up and says "Can I see your ID" yes the first thing they will think is its racism, because they are thinking, "If i were white, he wouldn't do this to me" which is likely true. So he has a right to "screaming". Cops were wrong to arrest because but they were unfortunately as educated as you and don't know what it feels to be Gates at that moment.
They found out it's his house, they should know he's "screaming" because he feels like if he were white he wouldn't be treated that way. Therefore a just cop would say something like this. "We're sorry Mr. Gates, we got a phone call saying...We apologize for our accusations, and we are sorry for the inconvenience we may have caused you" and the problem would be over.

Just because "He was booked for disorderly conduct after “exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior,” doesn't mean they did not harass him because of profiling. This is something a simple minded person like you won't understand.

Thank God someone else actually read into this situation...

Media can brainwash you, people.
Indeed it can, but there's a saying "A wise man changes his mind, a fool never." I'll explain this to you because clearly I think your not the "wise man" in the quote. No matter what the media says to you, you have your mind made up, even if its dumb/wrong. Problem is, nobody can convince a fool to correct his mistake.

If you act like a "raging douche" then you can (and should!) be arrested. He was verbally attacking a police officer for no reason. There was legitimate cause to ask for identification; Gates immediately went crying, "Racist."

The cop is not at fault. And he won't be stuck behind a desk, because last I read the Boston Police Dept. had no intention of disciplining the officer.
I would assume you live somewhere deep in Alabama or Mississippi.

1. Gates shouldn't have been arrested.

2. The actions of Crowley weren't racially motivated. He was doing his job.

3. Gates was idiotic in his behavior and was wrong to call the cop a racist.

4. Calling a cop a racist isn't an arrestable offense.

5. Gates deserved enough leeway after having proven it was his home that it should've taken a hell of a lot more than a verbal berating to justify cuffing him.
I've seen white people unload a verbal fury on cops and aren't arrested. I've never seen a black man unload a fury on a cop and not be arrested.

I don't know why you keep returning to this. That's not grounds for an arrest. You're just complaining about him using the race card, which is an issue worthy of social commentary on it's own, but it's not a fact that justifies being placed in handcuffs and hauled away to jail.
correct

You're right. And I was about to make a comment about how we don't know exactly how it all went down, because we weren't there. BUT I believe that Gates' ranting must have gotten so out of hand, that it warranted arrest on the grounds of disorderly conduct.

Who knows? But if you think the cop wasn't racist, then I assume that it must have gotten too out of hand. I think the fact that Gates has so many supporters is crazy.
There is nothing short of pulling a gun on a cop that could warrant him being arrested. Cops made a mistake checking his ID, he made a mistake "screaming". Nonetheless, he would have to be a threat on the cops person for them to arrest him. He was not. You won't agree because, again...You're an idiot.

So showing his id, then asking for badge numbers (which the police officers wouldn't give out) is grounds for arresting him? Riiight. Even if he did handle the situation worse than that, there was still no reason to arrest him. All the police officers had to do were leave once they realized it was his house but they didn't. His arrest was completely out of line.
Correct, but the issue right now in this forum is that many white people don't see that. Very few of us actually do. All they see is "a black guy hollering, pulling the race card, he should be arrested, black man cant insult a cop"

If racism was a prominate*SPissue in today's society, I would see where he was coming from, but come on. His conduct was disorderly, so he got arrested for it just like anybody else, regardless of race, would have been. Just because a white police officer arrested a black man, it's racist?
I'm not going to call you out on this, but there are either two things here. You live in a utopia, or your naive as fuck.
And here's where most white people go wrong. He wasn't arrested "like anybody else, regardless of race, would have been." It's believed by educated white people, and many minorities that if Gates were white, police wouldnt have been there in the first place.

This. Not saying that it happened, but what is this Gates dude is just a dick? What if he was being a dick to the cop? You can't blame everything on race.
So what if he's a dick? Take this drastic scenario. What if the cops walked up to Sen John McCain and McCain starts unleashing a verbal assault, do you think a cop has the gall to arrest him?

I'm sure he's subject to racism everyday at his dangerous job as a Harvard professor. This whole situation was caused by bad communication between the police officer and Gates and now he's playing the race card.

And racism as a whole in America is not that prominent of an issue, sure there are isolated cases around the country and still traces of it in the south, but it is nothing like it was in the past. People aren't running around lynching black people, they can sit wherever the fuck they want on the bus, they can get any job that they want, etc.
In the past they use to legally lynch blacks, so in that stance, yes racism has gotten better. However, I personally think minus the clans and hateful people, the south is better than the north.
There's a saying "The South likes the people Hates the race, the North Likes the Race Hates the People."
New York could not be any more separated than it is now. The north in General treats not just blacks bad, but all non-whites.

[simensays]

It has nothing to do with what the officer thought but everything to do with why he was dispatched to the house. He did not just roll up to the house because he THOUGHT it was being robbed. He showed up to a house that had a reported break in. If you think asking for identification at this point is excessive abuse of power based on racial profiling motives then I am at a loss for words.

No. Unfortunately someone supposedly called the police on Gates. He's livid. But no, showing his ID should be done. If he does it, which i believe he ultimately did, there is nothing else he could actually do that warrants an arrest besides harming a police officer. Therefore cops are wrong for arresting him.

[ghostyouare]

No. Unfortunately someone supposedly called the police on Gates. He's livid. But no, showing his ID should be done. If he does it, which i believe he ultimately did, there is nothing else he could actually do that warrants an arrest besides harming a police officer. Therefore cops are wrong for arresting him.
You missed the point, champ.

[ghostyouare]

I can go through this and weed out most of the bullshit. Many wise white men came to the conclusion that "whites don't know what it's like to be a black person" and clearly so many of you fit those white people. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of whites that know exactly how Gates felt, including me, and many at this forum.


This is you calling a well respected educated black man "the guy...screaming". You are trying to belittle him, which shows that you might very well be a racist.
I'm not going to assume you know how a black person feels when a situation like this arises. If a black man is trying to enter his own house, and any cop walks up and says "Can I see your ID" yes the first thing they will think is its racism, because they are thinking, "If i were white, he wouldn't do this to me" which is likely true. So he has a right to "screaming". Cops were wrong to arrest because but they were unfortunately as educated as you and don't know what it feels to be Gates at that moment.
They found out it's his house, they should know he's "screaming" because he feels like if he were white he wouldn't be treated that way. Therefore a just cop would say something like this. "We're sorry Mr. Gates, we got a phone call saying...We apologize for our accusations, and we are sorry for the inconvenience we may have caused you" and the problem would be over.

Just because "He was booked for disorderly conduct after “exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior,” doesn't mean they did not harass him because of profiling. This is something a simple minded person like you won't understand.


Indeed it can, but there's a saying "A wise man changes his mind, a fool never." I'll explain this to you because clearly I think your not the "wise man" in the quote. No matter what the media says to you, you have your mind made up, even if its dumb/wrong. Problem is, nobody can convince a fool to correct his mistake.


I would assume you live somewhere deep in Alabama or Mississippi.


I've seen white people unload a verbal fury on cops and aren't arrested. I've never seen a black man unload a fury on a cop and not be arrested.


correct


There is nothing short of pulling a gun on a cop that could warrant him being arrested. Cops made a mistake checking his ID, he made a mistake "screaming". Nonetheless, he would have to be a threat on the cops person for them to arrest him. He was not. You won't agree because, again...You're an idiot.


Correct, but the issue right now in this forum is that many white people don't see that. Very few of us actually do. All they see is "a black guy hollering, pulling the race card, he should be arrested, black man cant insult a cop"


I'm not going to call you out on this, but there are either two things here. You live in a utopia, or your naive as fuck.
And here's where most white people go wrong. He wasn't arrested "like anybody else, regardless of race, would have been." It's believed by educated white people, and many minorities that if Gates were white, police wouldnt have been there in the first place.


So what if he's a dick? Take this drastic scenario. What if the cops walked up to Sen John McCain and McCain starts unleashing a verbal assault, do you think a cop has the gall to arrest him?


In the past they use to legally lynch blacks, so in that stance, yes racism has gotten better. However, I personally think minus the clans and hateful people, the south is better than the north.
There's a saying "The South likes the people Hates the race, the North Likes the Race Hates the People."
New York could not be any more separated than it is now. The north in General treats not just blacks bad, but all non-whites.
God damn Ive never seen anyone try to play the race card so hard.

Please ban this guy. I havent seen this ignorance in quite some time.

[selftitled85]

In a perfect world, we would have gotten rid of stereotypes and cops wouldn't feel so free to abuse their authority, particularly towards minorities, because they'd be held accountable

Once again you fail to show that in this case the cop did in fact abuse his power in asking for identification. Asking for identification is the only way to know if this is in fact a persons home. I don't care if the person is white, black, brown, or asian...if a cop is answering a robbery call chances are they will ask for identification.

Once again you are trying to lump this case in with all other racial profiling cases which is inherently wrong since most cases are predicated on the fact that the cops had no reason to profile the person.

[simensays]

Wow, Tate i didn't know you were so, liberal. I was litterally in shock to read your posts. It was a good thing.

Doesn't matter what the officer thought. An officer can "think" I'm doing plenty of things ... what matters is what I'm actually doing.

They don't get arrested.

Thought the same thing when reading your original post.
I am not shocked to see so much ignorance because in my 22 years i've seen black people and other minorities go through alot. What i'm shocked to see is people like you and the OP you are replying to that are non minorities and yet understand what minorities are going through. That's the shock I have. Clearly if their were more people like us in America, it would be a better place, but I think our views are minority views in the country, and shall I say it, on your site.

I'd tell a cop to fuck off if he asked me to produce ID before I could walk into my own home. I don't need someone's permission to be on my property.

Where are the anti-big-government Republicans for this?! This is their bread and butter. They don't like the shoe on the other foot.
The thing is Tate, I doubt a cop will ever ask you or I for an ID when walking into a house.

[simensays]

God damn Ive never seen anyone try to play the race card so hard.

Please ban this guy. I havent seen this ignorance and prejudice in quite some time.
I didn't know it was possible for a white guy to "play the race card"

[selftitled85]

I'd tell a cop to fuck off if he asked me to produce ID before I could walk into my own home. I don't need someone's permission to be on my property.

Where are the anti-big-government Republicans for this?! This is their bread and butter. They don't like the shoe on the other foot.

If the cop has a reason to ask for identification (like oh I don't know...reported burglary at your house) and you are not showing your ID over and over. The cop can arrest you. Especially if you decide to become a raging douche and tell him to "fuck off." Is it a cop exerting too much power? Possibly. But the police needs to have some power over the public...or else the police would become null and void.

[ghostyouare]

I didn't know it was possible for a white guy to "play the race card"
I am sure there is a lot that you do not know.

[ghostyouare]

If the cop has a reason to ask for identification (like oh I don't know...reported burglary at your house) and you are not showing your ID over and over. The cop can arrest you. Especially if you decide to become a raging douche and tell him to "fuck off." Is it a cop exerting too much power? Possibly. But the police needs to have some power over the public...or else the police would become null and void.
Incoming: Then I hope they get sued for false arrest.

[simensays]

I am sure there is a lot that you do not know.
I don't doubt that, but i'm sure there's a lot more that you don't know.

[selftitled85]

Wow, Tate i didn't know you were so, liberal. I was litterally in shock to read your posts. It was a good thing.






I am not shocked to see so much ignorance because in my 22 years i've seen black people and other minorities go through alot. What i'm shocked to see is people like you and the OP you are replying to that are non minorities and yet understand what minorities are going through. That's the shock I have. Clearly if their were more people like us in America, it would be a better place, but I think our views are minority views in the country, and shall I say it, on your site.


The thing is Tate, I doubt a cop will ever ask you or I for an ID when walking into a house.

There's a difference between being a liberal and having common sense. I too am a liberal. I don't want a cop to overstep his boundaries. But I am also a rational thinker and understand the consequences that that are possible with such a system.

And for that last thing you said...what about if a cop got a call about a supposed burglary at the house? Your idea that a cop would not id you walking into a house is predicated on the fact that the cop is assuming something wrong is going on and checks without probable cause. That is so far from what happened in this case that you cannot say "I doubt a cop will ever ask you or I for an ID when walking into a house." Unless you want to add in..."I doubt a cop will ever ask you or I for an ID when walking into a house that is being reportedly burglarized." Large difference...and if a cop didn't ask for your ID in such a scenario, that cop deserves to be fired.

[ghostyouare]

I don't doubt that, but i'm sure there's a lot more that you don't know.
bad troll is bad.

[ghostyouare]

There's a difference between being a liberal and having common sense. I too am a liberal. I don't want a cop to overstep his boundaries. But I am also a rational thinker and understand the consequences that that are possible with such a system.

And for that last thing you said...what about if a cop got a call about a supposed burglary at the house? Your idea that a cop would not id you walking into a house is predicated on the fact that the cop is assuming something wrong is going on and checks without probable cause. That is so far from what happened in this case that you cannot say "I doubt a cop will ever ask you or I for an ID when walking into a house." Unless you want to add in..."I doubt a cop will ever ask you or I for an ID when walking into a house that is being reportedly burglarized." Large difference...and if a cop didn't ask for your ID in such a scenario, that cop deserves to be fired.
Dont waste your time with this champ. He is either a troll or voted for Obama to prove he wasnt a racist.

[selftitled85]

Dont waste your time with this champ. He is either a troll or voted for Obama to prove he wasnt a racist.

But...I voted for Obama!

[ghostyouare]

But...I voted for Obama!
Duh, how else would you prove you werent a racist?!

[selftitled85]

Duh, how else would you prove you werent a racist?!

Touche.

I just pull the "I am a minority card" since I am half puerto rican. Or as I like to call it, Caucrican.

[simensays]

There's a difference between being a liberal and having common sense. I too am a liberal. I don't want a cop to overstep his boundaries. But I am also a rational thinker and understand the consequences that that are possible with such a system.

And for that last thing you said...what about if a cop got a call about a supposed burglary at the house? Your idea that a cop would not id you walking into a house is predicated on the fact that the cop is assuming something wrong is going on and checks without probable cause. That is so far from what happened in this case that you cannot say "I doubt a cop will ever ask you or I for an ID when walking into a house." Unless you want to add in..."I doubt a cop will ever ask you or I for an ID when walking into a house that is being reportedly burglarized." Large difference...and if a cop didn't ask for your ID in such a scenario, that cop deserves to be fired.
You're getting into hypothetical. What I mean is, I doubt someone is going to report me walking into my own house as burglarizing it. It's just not going to happen, no matter how big my house is.Unless i'm a hillbilly walking into a mansion, I think most white people are safe from said accusations.

Dont waste your time with this champ. He is either a troll or voted for Obama to prove he wasnt a racist.
Unfortunately I vote for the party and then the candidate, if i'm not happy with them both, then I don't vote. Suffice to say I didn't vote.
You voted Republican because you're a fool.
How about you Google and do some research to see who the KKK voted for. since you're an idiot, you'll be surprised to see the stats.

[ghostyouare]

You're getting into hypothetical. What I mean is, I doubt someone is going to report me walking into my own house as burglarizing it. It's just not going to happen, no matter how big my house is.Unless i'm a hillbilly walking into a mansion, I think most white people are safe from said accusations.


Unfortunately I vote for the party and then the candidate, if i'm not happy with them both, then I don't vote. Suffice to say I didn't vote.
You voted Republican because you're a fool.
How about you Google and do some research to see who the KKK voted for. since you're an idiot, you'll be surprised to see the stats.
Ya, see I voted for Obama sololy for his promise to try to end the embargo on Cuba. If Im not mistaken the kkk announced that they supported Obama because they believed it would draw more people to kkk. You are a fucking champ either way. Bad troll is bad.

[selftitled85]

You're getting into hypothetical. What I mean is, I doubt someone is going to report me walking into my own house as burglarizing it. It's just not going to happen, no matter how big my house is.Unless i'm a hillbilly walking into a mansion, I think most white people are safe from said accusations.


Unfortunately I vote for the party and then the candidate, if i'm not happy with them both, then I don't vote. Suffice to say I didn't vote.
You voted Republican because you're a fool.
How about you Google and do some research to see who the KKK voted for. since you're an idiot, you'll be surprised to see the stats.

Fine then. Then don't blame the cops for doing their fucking job. Blame the woman who called the cops. The fact is what you are pointing to now is that the black guys were seen as possible burglary suspects due to their color. If you were in a similar situation chances are you would not have had the cops called on you.

That is a fair assumption.

BUT...stop blaming the cops. It is not their fault they have imperfect information and must go with what is at their disposal. They got called about a possible burglary. Suspects were black. They acted rationally in such a situation.

[simensays]

Fine then. Then don't blame the cops for doing their fucking job. Blame the woman who called the cops. The fact is what you are pointing to now is that the black guys were seen as possible burglary suspects due to their color. If you were in a similar situation chances are you would not have had the cops called on you.

That is a fair assumption.

BUT...stop blaming the cops. It is not their fault they have imperfect information and must go with what is at their disposal. They got called about a possible burglary. Suspects were black. They acted rationally in such a situation.
I dont see where I blamed the cops for coming and checking his ID. I thought they shouldn't arrest him. You're on your own thing right now, so the conversation can end.

[selftitled85]

I dont see where I blamed the cops for coming and checking his ID. I thought they shouldn't arrest him. You're on your own thing right now, so the conversation can end.

Well then sorry. All the people and their positions in this thread have all blended together.

[ghostyouare]

I dont see where I blamed the cops for coming and checking his ID. I thought they shouldn't arrest him. You're on your own thing right now, so the conversation can end.
If a black man is trying to enter his own house, and any cop walks up and says "Can I see your ID" yes the first thing they will think is its racism, because they are thinking, "If i were white, he wouldn't do this to me" which is likely true.

[ghostyouare]

Well then sorry. All the people and their positions in this thread have all blended together.
No, no. He took the time to point out that because hes so empathetic with the black struggle that he fully understands what Gates was thinking.

[simensays]

If a black man is trying to enter his own house, and any cop walks up and says "Can I see your ID" yes the first thing they will think is its racism, because they are thinking, "If i were white, he wouldn't do this to me" which is likely true.
Ok...?

[ghostyouare]

Ok...?
You went on to call the whole situation and us disagreeing with you a racist. It can be inferred that you believed that the cops asked for his ID because he was black, thus blaming the cops for checking his id.

[OveriseFan]

I didn't know it was possible for a white guy to "play the race card"

You just called me a racist. And that was your whole argument against me. You seem to choose only a couple facts of this case and roll with them, rather than addressing the whole issue.

...but I'm an idiot? Ok, champ. Get off your fucking high horse.



I am not shocked to see so much ignorance because in my 22 years i've seen black people and other minorities go through alot. What i'm shocked to see is people like you and the OP you are replying to that are non minorities and yet understand what minorities are going through. That's the shock I have. Clearly if their were more people like us in America, it would be a better place, but I think our views are minority views in the country, and shall I say it, on your site.


The thing is Tate, I doubt a cop will ever ask you or I for an ID when walking into a house.

Oh, if only all white people were as enlightened as you are!

[simensays]

You just called me a racist. And that was your whole argument against me. You seem to choose only a couple facts of this case and roll with them, rather than addressing the whole issue.

...but I'm an idiot? Ok, champ. Get off your fucking high horse.



Oh, if only all white people were as enlightened as you are!
my mistake, you do understand!

[Jason Tate]

If the cop has a reason to ask for identification (like oh I don't know...reported burglary at your house) and you are not showing your ID over and over. The cop can arrest you. Especially if you decide to become a raging douche and tell him to "fuck off." Is it a cop exerting too much power? Possibly. But the police needs to have some power over the public...or else the police would become null and void.
And if you ask the cop for identification -- and he isn't showing it to you?

[Jason Tate]

It has nothing to do with what the officer thought but everything to do with why he was dispatched to the house. He did not just roll up to the house because he THOUGHT it was being robbed. He showed up to a house that had a reported break in. If you think asking for identification at this point is excessive abuse of power based on racial profiling motives then I am at a loss for words.
So if I call the police and report a break in across the street ... on my neighbors ... you think it goes down like this? We all know it doesn't.

[selftitled85]

And if you ask the cop for identification -- and he isn't showing it to you?

You have reason to be pissed. The cop made a dumb choice in not giving his info in the beginning. But it does not get Gates off the hook.

[selftitled85]

So if I call the police and report a break in across the street ... on my neighbors ... you think it goes down like this? We all know it doesn't.

Any proof?

[Jason Tate]

If a black man is trying to enter his own house, and any cop walks up and says "Can I see your ID" yes the first thing they will think is its racism, because they are thinking, "If i were white, he wouldn't do this to me" which is likely true.
This statement is true. Right or wrong isn't really the issue -- it's true.

[Jason Tate]

Any proof?
Yeah, I live in a white wealthy suburban neighborhood.

[selftitled85]

Yeah, I live in a white wealthy suburban neighborhood.

That's not proof. That's making statements that cannot be confirmed nor denied. How do you know how the cops would react in such a situation? Chances are the cops would show up to the household since it is a rich area. What happens next no one can comment on since no one here has seen it happen.

[Broken Parachute]

I'd tell a cop to fuck off if he asked me to produce ID before I could walk into my own home. I don't need someone's permission to be on my property.In my opinion, that's very silly. If a police officer is reporting to the scene of a possible break-in, it's completely reasonable just to ask for ID. If that's the case, you're telling me you'd honestly just tell the cop to go fuck himself? That's starting trouble, I feel. All you'd have to do is show him your license...and then it's up to him to make the mistake. Once you cause a scene simply because the cop asked for ID, the blame is on you, I feel. If you show him the ID, he has no reason to take action.

[Love As Arson]

In my opinion, that's very silly. If a police officer is reporting to the scene of a possible break-in, it's completely reasonable just to ask for ID. If that's the case, you're telling me you'd honestly just tell the cop to go fuck himself? That's starting trouble, I feel. All you'd have to do is show him your license...and then it's up to him to make the mistake. Once you cause a scene simply because the cop asked for ID, the blame is on you, I feel. If you show him the ID, he has no reason to take action.
I feel that he first has to justify his presence in my house before making any demands.

Once again you fail to show that in this case the cop did in fact abuse his power in asking for identification.
Well, a fifty something historian, who requires a cane, was placed under arrest. Are you saying this was actually a proportionate use of his power?



Once again you are trying to lump this case in with all other racial profiling cases which is inherently wrong since most cases are predicated on the fact that the cops had no reason to profile the person.
No, you just misunderstand that everything is interconnected.

[Broken Parachute]

I feel that he first has to justify his presence in my house before making any demands.If he says "sir, we got a call that someone was breaking into a home. Can you just show me your ID so that I can verify you live here?"...would you show him your ID?

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

this is ridiculous. people have imagined a different scenario and are now claiming their version was an abuse of power.
these are the facts.
a cop was dispatched to a house that was being burglerized by a black man. (not the cops fault, that was simply the report)
at the house, the cop finds a black man, asks for his ID, and the man becomes irate and uncooperative.
if any of you would read the report, you would see that the cop DID explain his reason for being there, DID identify himself numerous times, and most certainly DID NOT treat mr. gates disrespectfully or in any way provoke gates' response.
he did not pick on gates because he was black.
he did not think mr gates was guilty because he was black.
he did not assume that gates was a burglar because he was black.
he properly questioned the only suspect at the scene of the supposed crime.
if you say thats abuse of power, then you simply are an idiot. there is no way around it. ad hominem or not, you are still an idiot and i hope you're happy with yourself.

[OveriseFan]

this is ridiculous. people have imagined a different scenario and are now claiming their version was an abuse of power.
these are the facts.
a cop was dispatched to a house that was being burglerized by a black man. (not the cops fault, that was simply the report)
at the house, the cop finds a black man, asks for his ID, and the man becomes irate and uncooperative.
if any of you would read the report, you would see that the cop DID explain his reason for being there, DID identify himself numerous times, and most certainly DID NOT treat mr. gates disrespectfully or in any way provoke gates' response.
he did not pick on gates because he was black.
he did not think mr gates was guilty because he was black.
he did not assume that gates was a burglar because he was black.
he properly questioned the only suspect at the scene of the supposed crime.
if you say thats abuse of power, then you simply are an idiot. there is no way around it. ad hominem or not, you are still an idiot and i hope you're happy with yourself.

...but omgz copz r lyerz.

I've given up on this thread - everyone has their own opinion set in stone and it's just a stupid back and forth now with no actual discussion.

[ambulance]

Burglars must have some balls not to run out of a house when the cops show up. Who here has ever heard of burglars trying to pass off a house as their own when cops show up?!?

[saysmydoctor]

Anyone saying these are the facts and are going by the police report only are hearing one side of the story.

The real fact of the matter is charges were dropped so there was no crime here.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Burglars must have some balls not to run out of a house when the cops show up. Who here has ever heard of burglars trying to pass off a house as their own when cops show up?!?
so you think the cops should've just assumed gates belonged there and just left without asking any questions?
you'd make a wonderful police officer.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

...but omgz copz r lyerz.

you called it:

Anyone saying these are the facts and are going by the police report only are hearing one side of the story.

[ambulance]

so you think the cops should've just assumed gates belonged there and just left without asking any questions?
you'd make a wonderful police officer.

Tell me where I said that in my post bud.

[saysmydoctor]

you called it:
No he didn't, so don't attack the straw man. I didn't call them liars. I said they only posted on half of the story. Just like an prosecutor, cop, anyone in the criminal justice field would do. It's the nature of the industry.

I've posted IN THIS THREAD that I think that I believe both parties were in the wrong in some way. Though, I do believe the ultimate wrong can be placed on Crowley.

[theguilt engine]

Thought the same thing when reading your original post.
Interesting counterpoint.

LOL @ everyone taking this so seriously.

[ghostyouare]

Burglars must have some balls not to run out of a house when the cops show up. Who here has ever heard of burglars trying to pass off a house as their own when cops show up?!?
I heard a dave chappelle joke about this.

[ghostyouare]

Anyone saying these are the facts and are going by the police report only are hearing one side of the story.

The real fact of the matter is charges were dropped so there was no crime here.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH this has to be the dumbest thing you have ever said. Thats the worst logic I have ever heard.

[simensays]

That's not proof. That's making statements that cannot be confirmed nor denied. How do you know how the cops would react in such a situation? Chances are the cops would show up to the household since it is a rich area. What happens next no one can comment on since no one here has seen it happen.
Where the fuck do you think Gates lives?

[ghostyouare]

Any copy, 100% of the time, will ask for identification at the scene of a reported burglary. Regardless of race.

[simensays]

Anyone saying these are the facts and are going by the police report only are hearing one side of the story.

The real fact of the matter is charges were dropped so there was no crime here.
If I were a black man, if i was ever arrested, those charges sure as hell better fucking stick because if i was arrested for something bogus i'm not going to quit until that cop is fucking fired.

[simensays]

Any copy, 100% of the time, will ask for identification at the scene of a reported burglary. Regardless of race.
The problem that your mind can't seem to comprehend is that a 50 year old white man wearing khaki pants and a tucked in polo shirt is not getting cops called to him for thoughts of burglary. If you really can't see that, you're a lost cause.
That's why Gates is angry. If he were white this would not have happened to him.
You are going to blow my mind if you reply with something idiotic to defend your claim that race doesn't matter.

[ghostyouare]

The problem that your mind can't seem to comprehend is that a 50 year old white man wearing khaki pants and a tucked in polo shirt is not getting cops called to him for thoughts of burglary. If you really can't see that, you're a lost cause.
That's why Gates is angry. If he were white this would not have happened to him.
You are going to blow my mind if you reply with something idiotic to defend your claim that race doesn't matter.
I cant see it. Im pretty sure white people get called on for robberies as well. Anyone just strolling around a house trying to bust open a window or whatever the fuck gates was doing would probably get called on. And no, stop saying, `thats why gates is angry,` because you have no proof thats why Gates was angry. Gates could have been angry because he dumb ass locked himself out of the house and he was just projecting onto the cops. Please just stop making retarded assumptions.

[simensays]

I cant see it. Im pretty sure white people get called on for robberies as well. Anyone just strolling around a house trying to bust open a window or whatever the fuck gates was doing would probably get called on. And no, stop saying, `thats why gates is angry,` because you have no proof thats why Gates was angry. Gates could have been angry because he dumb ass locked himself out of the house and he was just projecting onto the cops. Please just stop making retarded assumptions.
Now I understand...America's fucked

[ghostyouare]

Now I understand...America's fucked
Id be shocked if you understood that.

[Love As Arson]

If he says "sir, we got a call that someone was breaking into a home. Can you just show me your ID so that I can verify you live here?"...would you show him your ID?
Probably, but I would also express my anger in the same way Gates' did.

[ghostyouare]

Probably, but I would also express my anger in the same way Gates' did.
Id have to call you irrational, provided the officer explained his presence.

[Jason Tate]

In my opinion, that's very silly. If a police officer is reporting to the scene of a possible break-in, it's completely reasonable just to ask for ID. If that's the case, you're telling me you'd honestly just tell the cop to go fuck himself? That's starting trouble, I feel. All you'd have to do is show him your license...and then it's up to him to make the mistake. Once you cause a scene simply because the cop asked for ID, the blame is on you, I feel. If you show him the ID, he has no reason to take action.
And I believe, as a law abiding citizen, the burden is not on me to prove I am not breaking the law. The burden is on the officer to prove I am breaking the law. I am not guilty until proven innocent.

[Broken Parachute]

And I believe, as a law abiding citizen, the burden is not on me to prove I am not breaking the law. The burden is on the officer to prove I am breaking the law. I am not guilty until proven innocent.And how is he supposed to prove innocent or guilt if you won't cooperate with him? Is he just supposed to guess?

[Jason Tate]

And how is he supposed to prove innocent or guilt if you won't cooperate with him? Is he just supposed to guess?
I'm not a cop; I would assume he would need to establish probable cause - be aware of who lives in the residence - and draw conclusions from there. An elderly black man with a cane is probably not breaking into a house and the police database probably lets him know who lives there (and in many cases even provides the DMV photo).

Officers should not act on the presumption of guilt. And, again - he should have left once it was clear Gates lived there. The situation would have been over if he had just left. I believe Gates has the right to say whatever he wants. He can be as big of an asshole as he wants to be. Does that make him a bad person - arguably yes. However, I firmly believe he has the right to be that bad person and say whatever the fuck he wants. The officer should have left the scene after identity was established. It sucks it took a while to get that identity established (and we can argue those merits forever); however, it is a fact that identity was established. At that point in time - the officer should immediately leave. No verbal warnings. No asking him to stop (which is passive aggressively provoking). Walk to the car - drive away.

[simensays]

I'm not a cop; I would assume he would need to establish probable cause - be aware of who lives in the residence - and draw conclusions from there. An elderly black man with a cane is probably not breaking into a house and the police database probably lets him know who lives there (and in many cases even provides the DMV photo).

Officers should not act on the presumption of guilt. And, again - he should have left once it was clear Gates lived there. The situation would have been over if he had just left. I believe Gates has the right to say whatever he wants. He can be as big of an asshole as he wants to be. Does that make him a bad person - arguably yes. However, I firmly believe he has the right to be that bad person and say whatever the fuck he wants. The officer should have left the scene after identity was established. It sucks it took a while to get that identity established (and we can argue those merits forever); however, it is a fact that identity was established. At that point in time - the officer should immediately leave. No verbal warnings. No asking him to stop (which is passive aggressively provoking). Walk to the car - drive away.
There's no point Tate, let it go. This is why equality cannot be reached in America. They don't want to change. You can argue all you want, and preach your side of the story, but these people will choose to never understand. They will always give their side. The weird part is, I understand their side of the story, I understand that these people are saying Gates should have showed his ID quickly and cooperated. I understand that they think 10/10 times if one argues with a Cop they are getting arrested. The problem is, when you explain to them your side, they will never understand. They cant and won't understand that if a cop harasses your father today at his house and he gets verbally angry no matter what he will not get arrested. They don't understand that a conversation of mistaken identity with your father will not go as far as it did with Gates. Something completely different would go down. They don't understand that, and i'm no MLK so instead of trying to help them see it, I personally would avoid such people. As they are what make America bad. They are almost equivalent to the BNP supporters. I can't say that they are becasue the BNP are blatant racists, these people are Ignorant Racists.

[Justin_stacy]

Probably, but I would also express my anger in the same way Gates' did.

With cheap name calling, hollow threats, and belligerent ranting....seriously that's the route you'd have taken in the same incident? I would have thought you to be more rational, arson.

[Jason Tate]

Obama, Gates, and Crowly to meet over beers (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/27/gates-crowley-to-join-oba_n_245383.html).

Good for them.

[Jason Tate]

911 tapes released (http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/cambridge_polic_4.html).

"I don't know what's happening. ... I don't know if they live there and they just had a hard time with their key..."

[QuikTrig]

There's no point Tate, let it go. This is why equality cannot be reached in America. They don't want to change. You can argue all you want, and preach your side of the story, but these people will choose to never understand. They will always give their side. The weird part is, I understand their side of the story, I understand that these people are saying Gates should have showed his ID quickly and cooperated. I understand that they think 10/10 times if one argues with a Cop they are getting arrested. The problem is, when you explain to them your side, they will never understand. They cant and won't understand that if a cop harasses your father today at his house and he gets verbally angry no matter what he will not get arrested. They don't understand that a conversation of mistaken identity with your father will not go as far as it did with Gates. Something completely different would go down. They don't understand that, and i'm no MLK so instead of trying to help them see it, I personally would avoid such people. As they are what make America bad. They are almost equivalent to the BNP supporters. I can't say that they are becasue the BNP are blatant racists, these people are Ignorant Racists.


:popcorn:

[saysmydoctor]

Obama, Gates, and Crowly to meet over beers (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/27/gates-crowley-to-join-oba_n_245383.html).

Good for them.
Wonder what they drank.

Edit: Read article before making unwitty comment, Sean.
911 tapes released (http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/cambridge_polic_4.html).

"I don't know what's happening. ... I don't know if they live there and they just had a hard time with their key..."
Amazing.

[Jason Tate]

Wonder what they drank.

Edit: Read article before making unwitty comment, Sean.

Amazing.
As for drink orders, CNN says Obama will be having a Bud and Crowley a Blue Moon. No word yet on Gates' beverage of choice.

[saysmydoctor]

I still don't think this was ever really a race issue, think simensays is a bit off in his comment.

[Broken Parachute]

I still don't think this was ever really a race issue, think simensays is a bit off in his comment.Agreed.

[saysmydoctor]

Gates was understandably pissed, made an understandable assumption considering the police in this country's track record, so I don't blame him as much. Which is why I didn't find anything wrong with Obama's comments. He didn't go after the 'racial' tension in the story, he went after the cop's performance.

People need to realize that 'stupidly' isn't an adjective, so it's not like he called Crowley stupid. This was such a nonstory, in my opinion.

[Jason Tate]

I still don't think this was ever really a race issue, think simensays is a bit off in his comment.
I don't think the officer treated Gates as he did because of his race; however, I think that history/experience with race is why Gates responded the way he did. My (uneducated) assumption is that Gates had a rough day, just got back from China, was probably jet-lagged and pissed off that his door was stuck and couldn't get into his house. Things escalated quickly and I am of the opinion it's the officer's job to leave and diffuse the situation. As clearly Gates is not going to leave his own house. However, in my own experience with cops -- they enjoy the pseudo power they have and like to flex it whenever they can. It's infuriating and in my uneducated opinion ... can only assume this played a role.

I have no idea what the officer said when he came over - I definitely don't think he had any right to be in Mr. Gates house (if he was) nor do I believe he was right to refuse his own identification to Mr. Gates.

[saysmydoctor]

I don't think the officer treated Gates as he did because of his race; however, I think that history/experience with race is why Gates responded the way he did. My (uneducated) assumption is that Gates had a rough day, just got back from China, was probably jet-lagged and pissed off that his door was stuck and couldn't get into his house. I have no idea what the officer said when he came over - I definitely don't think he had any right to be in Mr. Gates house (if he was) nor do I believe he was right to refuse his own identification to Mr. Gates.
Bingo, pretty much what I just said.

[Broken Parachute]

This was such a nonstory, in my opinion.This is what I don't get. Why was this such big news? It was a dumb nonstory. It was never about race, just a cop making a error in judgment and a man who overreacted. The fact that Obama even got involved makes me shake my head.

[perceptrons]

This is what I don't get. Why was this such big news? It was a dumb nonstory. It was never about race, just a cop making a error in judgment and a man who overreacted. The fact that Obama even got involved makes me shake my head.
He was asked the question, it's not like he just threw it out there. I mean, he could've given a non-answer answer, but would it make much of a difference?

[perceptrons]

There's no point Tate, let it go. This is why equality cannot be reached in America. They don't want to change. You can argue all you want, and preach your side of the story, but these people will choose to never understand. They will always give their side.
They, they, they. I'm sure you're a picture of perfection.

Get off your high horse.

[saysmydoctor]

I blame the journalist for asking that stupid question during a healthcare news conference.

[J.C.]

The 911 call showed that the caller never described the men as black, contradicting what the police had filed in their report.

The fact the cop asked for ID right off the bat instead of just asking Gates about what was going on is still mind-boggling and seems to have been a weird way to approach the situation.

[ghostyouare]

And I believe, as a law abiding citizen, the burden is not on me to prove I am not breaking the law. The burden is on the officer to prove I am breaking the law. I am not guilty until proven innocent. Agreed. However, you are at the scene of a reported crime. You are neither guilty or innocent. You can not be proven innocent when you are being intolerant and an arrogant jack ass.

I still don't think this was ever really a race issue, think simensays is a bit off in his comment.
It was the Gates supporters that made it a race issue. Even if he didnt directly do it. The opponents had to defend such alligations, such as that fucking terrible article Dom posted.

People need to realize that 'stupidly' isn't an adjective, so it's not like he called Crowley stupid. This was such a nonstory, in my opinion.
You must have never had a girlfriend and never told her shes ACTING bitchy.

[saysmydoctor]

The 911 call showed that the caller never described the men as black, contradicting what the police had filed in their report.

The fact the cop asked for ID right off the bat instead of just asking Gates about what was going on is still mind-boggling and seems to have been a weird way to approach the situation.
Guess my skepticism of the police report was 100% warranted.

[ghostyouare]

I don't think the officer treated Gates as he did because of his race; however, I think that history/experience with race is why Gates responded the way he did. My (uneducated) assumption is that Gates had a rough day, just got back from China, was probably jet-lagged and pissed off that his door was stuck and couldn't get into his house. Things escalated quickly and I am of the opinion it's the officer's job to leave and diffuse the situation. As clearly Gates is not going to leave his own house. However, in my own experience with cops -- they enjoy the pseudo power they have and like to flex it whenever they can. It's infuriating and in my uneducated opinion ... can only assume this played a role.

I have no idea what the officer said when he came over - I definitely don't think he had any right to be in Mr. Gates house (if he was) nor do I believe he was right to refuse his own identification to Mr. Gates.
And, I agree with most of what you. I believe thats exactly what happend to gates up until the incident. From my understanding, from what I have read. The officer started to leave but Gates continued his verbal assault on the officer. Which, imo, makes it a shit ton more understandable why he busted Gates ass.

[ghostyouare]

Guess my skepticism of the police report was 100% warranted.
If you have read the report youd appreciate how he got Gates outside to set him up for the arrest. It was clearly set up for that reason but ya.

[ghostyouare]

The 911 call showed that the caller never described the men as black, contradicting what the police had filed in their report.

The fact the cop asked for ID right off the bat instead of just asking Gates about what was going on is still mind-boggling and seems to have been a weird way to approach the situation.
I just read the report and he says that she told him IN PERSON that they were black. The actual police report makes no mention of anything about them being black.

[ghostyouare]

Guess my skepticism of the police report was 100% warranted.
Pat yourself on the back?

[J.C.]

Is it really a reported crime if the 911 caller never alleges a crime? The woman pretty much went out of her way to not accuse the men of burglary and said at least twice that she thought it might be their home.

To me, there's a difference between how you treat a call about something suspicious and how you treat a call where a crime has been legitimately reported. In this instance, Gates had already been in his home for a relatively substantial amount of time before he was asked to step outside and prove he lived there. Like I said, I don't think there was a reason to approach the situation in that tone. Normally, you'd just ask what the deal was and let things unravel that way.

[saysmydoctor]

If you have read the report youd appreciate how he got Gates outside to set him up for the arrest. It was clearly set up for that reason but ya.
I have read the police report.

[ghostyouare]

Is it really a reported crime if the 911 caller never alleges a crime? The woman pretty much went out of her way to not accuse the men of burglary and said at least twice that she thought it might be their home.

To me, there's a difference between how you treat a call about something suspicious and how you treat a call where a crime has been legitimately reported. In this instance, Gates had already been in his home for a relatively substantial amount of time before he was asked to step outside and prove he lived there. Like I said, I don't think there was a reason to approach the situation in that tone. Normally, you'd just ask what the deal was and let things unravel that way.
I would have taken a whole lot from the Officer to have approached the situation any differently. Gates, reported, was steaming hot from the start so if the officer acted any differently it would have been a miracle.

[saysmydoctor]

mvaJ9Imncuk&feature=related

[thespearkid]

i thought anne coulter was dead. maybe wishful thinking on my part. also, i wonder if she realizes how big of an ass she sounds like.

[saysmydoctor]

CKgTRmiZiKQ

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

haha thanks for that video .

here is that legal president :

http://masscases.com/cases/app/60/60massappct723.html

"To be disorderly, within the sense of the statute, the conduct must disturb through acts other than speech; neither a provocative nor a foul mouth transgresses the statute." Commonwealth v. LePore, 40 Mass. App. Ct. 543 (http://masscases.com/cases/app/40/40massappct543.html) , 546 (1996)

[saysmydoctor]

So many people in this thread said the arrest was warranted because he kept verbally ''assaulting" an officer, hahahaha.

I hope Gates sues the Cambridge police.

[Jason Tate]

haha thanks for that video .

here is that legal president :

http://masscases.com/cases/app/60/60massappct723.html
Great find. That's what I was looking for earlier. Thank you for posting that.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Guess my skepticism of the police report was 100% warranted.
guess again champ. the report never says the men were reported as black. but good to see you're still sticking to your own version.
\The fact the cop asked for ID right off the bat instead of just asking Gates about what was going on is still mind-boggling and seems to have been a weird way to approach the situation.
have you ever been questioned by the police for anything in your life? the first thing they do no matter what is going on, is ask for some ID. it isn't a hostile action, it isn't unheard of, and given the nature of their business at the house (to determine whether gates belonged at the house) i see no other way for them to handle things.

If you have read the report youd appreciate how he got Gates outside to set him up for the arrest. It was clearly set up for that reason but ya.
asking gates to step outside was simply following normal police procedure. you do not enter a house you are unfamiliar with when you are unsure of the situation. you approach any potentially dangerous situation on neutral ground. (i know what you'll say, how is an 80 year old man that uses a cane 'dangerous')
its dangerous because they don't know who is in the house. they were told two men forced their way inside. thats it. asking gates to talk with him on the porch is nowhere near an unreasonable request.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

guess again champ. the report never says the men were reported as black. but good to see you're still sticking to your own version.


huh Crowley did:




911 caller in Gates arrest never referred to 'black suspects' (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates.arrest/)


The woman who made the 911 call that led to the arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. never referred to black suspects when she called authorities for what she thought was a potential break-in.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif
Police in Cambridge, Massachusetts, released the 911 phone call Monday. In the call, Lucia Whalen reports seeing "two larger men, one looked kind of Hispanic, but I'm not really sure, and the other one entered, and I didn't see what he looked like at all."
"I just saw it from a distance, and this older woman was worried, thinking somebody's breaking in someone's house and they've been barging in," Whalen says. "She interrupted me, and that's when I noticed. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have noticed it at all, to be honest with you. So I was just calling because she was a concerned neighbor, I guess."


Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/james_crowley) at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."
She added, "I'm not sure what the police explanation will be. Frankly, I don't care. Her only goal is to make it clear she never described them as black. She never saw their race. ... All she reported was behavior, not skin color."

In the police report, filed by Crowley, he says he spoke with Whalen outside the home before he approached Gates (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/henry_louis_gates_jr)' house.

"She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street," the report says. "She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry."

[saysmydoctor]

After lecturing me about not having red the police report (even though I had), you can't blatantly lie like that. It's literally in black and white. Idiot.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

So many people in this thread said the arrest was warranted because he kept verbally ''assaulting" an officer, hahahaha.

I hope Gates sues the Cambridge police.
you really have a problem with not reading things.
http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/368/368mass580.html
here is the actual case. it isn't even remotely the same situation, and the ruling basicly came down to an interpretation of whether the kid's speech was personally threatening or just general profanity. the gates incident would not fall under that precedent. he wasn't arrested for using public profanity.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

After lecturing me about not having red the police report (even though I had), you can't blatantly lie like that. It's literally in black and white. Idiot.
are you completely dense?
1. you listened to the radio tapes, which don't mention the men being black
2. you then use those tapes to say the police report wasn't accurate?

THE POLICE REPORT DOESNT SAY THEY WERE REPORTED ON THE RADIO AS BLACK.

the radio tapes in no way undermine the official police report.

[saysmydoctor]

You have a real problem with not understanding the legal concept of 'precedent.'

[saysmydoctor]

are you completely dense?
1. you listened to the radio tapes, which don't mention the men being black
2. you then use those tapes to say the police report wasn't accurate?

THE POLICE REPORT DOESNT SAY THEY WERE REPORTED ON THE RADIO AS BLACK.

the radio tapes in no way undermine the official police report.
Are you dense? Reread the police report.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Are you dense? Reread the police report.
maybe im missing something. maybe you can show me where in the police report it says that the cops were told by dispatch that the men were black?
because you have yet to show me any proof that the police report is anything but 100% factual.

[saysmydoctor]

maybe im missing something. maybe you can show me where in the police report it says that the cops were told by dispatch that the men were black?
because you have yet to show me any proof that the police report is anything but 100% factual.
You're a fucking idiot. The report makes a claim that he spoke to Whalen when he arrived at the residence, in response to the incident.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/27/gates.arrest/

""Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period.""

She has categorically denied the conversation described in the police report as having ever happened. Crowley deliberately LIED. I restate my original question:

Are you dense?

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

you're so stupid its funny.
you were arguing that the released radio tapes proved crowley's report wrong.
it didn't.
now you're pointing to a conflict in eyewitness accounts. which is simply a case of 'he said, she said'.
but that was never the argument.

[saysmydoctor]

The original argument I ever made was that the police report was ever open to skepticism. You responded this:

guess again champ. the report never says the men were reported as black. but good to see you're still sticking to your own version.

It was shown Crowley did. That is when you confused the issue with dispatches with the so-called witness testimony.

So they weren't reported on the radio as being black. There was no conversation that ever occurred that described them as black. That is the invention.

[simensays]

CKgTRmiZiKQ
this was a great watch.
It's unfortunate that Obama didn't continue to stick up for his "friend"
He first defended him by saying "the police acted stupidly" but now he apologized. I would be wary for those that I call "friend"
Nevertheless, maybe it wasn't racially profiling. But the cop still wanted to put Gates, a Black Man, in his place. And that's behind bars. I'm pretty sure the cop would never walk away with his tail between his legs after being verbally assaulted by a black man. He doesn't see Gates as an equal, so Gates isn't allowed certain luxuries that White people are. oh well, this is America.
Black Man cusses out a cop, you get arrested. White Man cusses out a cop, cop better remain quiet or his job and pension is GONE!

[Jason Tate]

you're so stupid its funny.
you were arguing that the released radio tapes proved crowley's report wrong.
it didn't.
now you're pointing to a conflict in eyewitness accounts. which is simply a case of 'he said, she said'.
but that was never the argument.
You got caught ... just admit it.

[Praetor]

After lecturing me about not having red the police report (even though I had), you can't blatantly lie like that. It's literally in black and white. Idiot.
LOL GET IT BECAUSE GATES WAS BLACK AND CROWLEY WAS WHITE

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

LOL GET IT BECAUSE GATES WAS BLACK AND CROWLEY WAS WHITE


ANNNNDD OBAMA IS HALF WHITE AND HALF BLACK OMG MIND=BLOWN

[J.C.]

have you ever been questioned by the police for anything in your life? the first thing they do no matter what is going on, is ask for some ID.

lol it's certainly not the universal approach to a situation. You're not inherently obligated to prove anything. I've gotten to witness many incidents living where I live, with a mom who worked for the New Haven PD, and assuming the situation isn't hostile when they arrive, the first thing the cops will generally do is specify why they were called in and then ask for an explanation for whatever was going on.

[Praetor]

ANNNNDD OBAMA IS HALF WHITE AND HALF BLACK OMG MIND=BLOWN
HOLY SHIT HE'S A HUMAN OREO

[Machu505]

My God there are some fucking morons in here. Ann Coulter included.

When I'm president I'm going to lock her up.

[saysmydoctor]

ANNNNDD OBAMA IS HALF WHITE AND HALF BLACK OMG MIND=BLOWN
I actually forgot about this in another thread. What a fucking slip on my part. My point still stood, though.

[Praetor]

I actually forgot about this in another thread. What a fucking slip on my part. My point still stood, though.
I'm pretty sure everybody besides Pat Buchanan has forgotten this at one point or another.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

The original argument I ever made was that the police report was ever open to skepticism. You responded this:

guess again champ. the report never says the men were reported as black. but good to see you're still sticking to your own version.

It was shown Crowley did. That is when you confused the issue with dispatches with the so-called witness testimony.

So they weren't reported on the radio as being black. There was no conversation that ever occurred that described them as black. That is the invention.

what a clown. your original argument was in response to a post about the released police tapes. you even quoted the post about the taped dispatches before saying the police report was wrong. so don't fucking tell me you werent talking about the tapes. most people don't generally quote things that have no bearing on your post.

[Jason Tate]

what a clown. your original argument was in response to a post about the released police tapes. you even quoted the post about the taped dispatches before saying the police report was wrong. so don't fucking tell me you werent talking about the tapes. most people don't generally quote things that have no bearing on your post.
He wasn't quoting anything...

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=49401132#post49401 132

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

He wasn't quoting anything...

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=49401132#post49401 132
you're a fucking clown too. try again.

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=49660122#post49660 122

[J.C.]

you're a fucking clown too. try again.

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=49660122#post49660 122

What do you think you're doing mouthing off to an authority figure like that? Show me your ID.

[Jason Tate]

you're a fucking clown too. try again.

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=49660122#post49660 122
Yeah, he was referencing this post (http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=49401132#post49401 132) he made 3 days earlier.

:hitself:

[saysmydoctor]

...along with the civilians that witnessed the incident.

but since you brought up the subject, how many people corroborate YOUR version of the story?
Ironically this is also denied by the 911 caller, by her lawyer/spokesperson.

I think you should reread the police report, your ignorance is showing.

[saysmydoctor]

Not to mention you are the one narrowing the post JC made, not me. I just said the new information enhanced my skepticism in the police report. I never said anything concerning the radio dispatches.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Yeah, he was referencing this post (http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=49401132#post49401 132) he made 3 days earlier.

:hitself:
yeah and thats why he quoted a different post. i get it. when you mean one thing, quote something different just for giggles.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

nevermind, ive been warned. i need to stop posting for fear of being banned.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

i take back all my previous statements. fuck the police. how dare they investigate crimes.

[Jason Tate]

yeah and thats why he quoted a different post. i get it. when you mean one thing, quote something different just for giggles.
Do you really not follow this?

He made statement A. Someone else proved statement A. He made statement B referencing how statement A was correct.

Pretty linear progression there.

[zion the lion]

I dont think it was purely racially motivated. That whole police report is sketchy, but I think the cop just acted with emotions rather than logic, actually they both did, which is completely understandable.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Do you really not follow this?

He made statement A. Someone else proved statement A. He made statement B referencing how statement A was correct.

Pretty linear progression there.
here's another brain teaser for you.
he made statement A.
someone else tried to prove statement A, but was incorrect.
he made statement B referencing how statement A was correct, but again, without any substantial proof.

but like i said, i've been reformed. i don't want to anger the gods. i no longer dispute anything.

[J.C.]

nevermind, ive been warned. i need to stop posting for fear of being banned.

officer crowley'd 'em

[Jason Tate]

here's another brain teaser for you.
he made statement A.
someone else tried to prove statement A, but was incorrect.
he made statement B referencing how statement A was correct, but again, without any substantial proof.

but like i said, i've been reformed. i don't want to anger the gods. i no longer dispute anything.
Wasn't incorrect in any way. You were even quoted the exact police report and line.

Thanks for bringing it up again -- love having a reason to give you that last point.

[J.C.]

*invites Jason and Slopez for an e-beer*

[ghostyouare]

guess again champ. the report never says the men were reported as black. but good to see you're still sticking to your own version.

have you ever been questioned by the police for anything in your life? the first thing they do no matter what is going on, is ask for some ID. it isn't a hostile action, it isn't unheard of, and given the nature of their business at the house (to determine whether gates belonged at the house) i see no other way for them to handle things.


asking gates to step outside was simply following normal police procedure. you do not enter a house you are unfamiliar with when you are unsure of the situation. you approach any potentially dangerous situation on neutral ground. (i know what you'll say, how is an 80 year old man that uses a cane 'dangerous')
its dangerous because they don't know who is in the house. they were told two men forced their way inside. thats it. asking gates to talk with him on the porch is nowhere near an unreasonable request.
Its not an unreasonable request but it really was for the sole intent of getting him disorderly conduct.

[GeeBee]

officer crowley'd 'em

:lol:

Love that. Using it.

CROWLEY'D 'EM. I'm going to drag someone kicking and screaming from their own car, claiming they stole it, then when they present their keys and registration, I'll yell in their face....
"YOU JUST GOT CROWLEY'D, SUCKKA!"

[Duexy]

:popcorn:

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

haha so Crowley and Gates are related

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8195564&page=1

[simensays]

I thought they made it clear that shittalking a Copper isn't grounds for an arrest. So right there, Crowley is wrong. Now next step is to punish him.
He has to lose his job, pension, house, and a nice public ignominious walk to his bicycle.

[saysmydoctor]

haha so Crowley and Gates are related

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8195564&page=1
Mind blown.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

Mind blown.

this Niall of the Nine Hostages dude is legen-- wait for it --dary


A team of geneticists at Trinity College led by professor Dan Bradley have discovered that as many as 3 million men worldwide may be descendents of the Irish warlord, who was the Irish "High King" at Tara, the ancient center of Ireland from A.D. 379 to A.D. 405.

[saysmydoctor]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/29/beer-choice-at-obama-meeting-touches-off-new-debate/

Jesus fucking christ, DON'T YOU HAVE A FUCKING JOB?

[fightinirish217]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/29/beer-choice-at-obama-meeting-touches-off-new-debate/

Jesus fucking christ, DON'T YOU HAVE A FUCKING JOB?

This is so pathetic, this should never be a story. Our world is going to shit so quickly.

[Machu505]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/29/beer-choice-at-obama-meeting-touches-off-new-debate/

Jesus fucking christ, DON'T YOU HAVE A FUCKING JOB?
Almost as stupid as conservative who think the new G.I. Joe movie isn't American enough.

[GeeBee]

Almost as stupid as conservative who think the new G.I. Joe movie isn't American enough.

GTFO...seriously. Wow. I hope the conservative movement continues on the same track. It will result in it's ultimate demise, but man will it bring the lawls while it lasts.

[mattmatumbo]

What's the penalty for a cop not giving his badge number and name? I've heard that is absolutely mandatory when asked of a police officer.

[GeeBee]

What's the penalty for a cop not giving his badge number and name? I've heard that is absolutely mandatory when asked of a police officer.

In SLC, you'll likely get tazed if you ask...

[mattmatumbo]

In SLC, you'll likely get tazed if you ask...

Oh no, i'm aware of how it is here. I meant other places hahaha.

[loveisdead]

Did anyone hear of the mass e-mail that surfaced from another Boston officer?

Separately, a Boston, Massachusetts, police officer became part of the controversy by referring to Gates in a mass e-mail as a "banana-eating jungle monkey."

[saysmydoctor]

Yeah. What the fuck is up with that?

[loveisdead]

And then he tries to say he isn't a racist. Just shouldn't have said what he did. Ok, cause there's any chance of that.

[Machu505]

Gates and Crowley will meet again (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/30/harvard.arrest.beers/index.html).

[J.C.]

Did anyone hear of the mass e-mail that surfaced from another Boston officer?

Separately, a Boston, Massachusetts, police officer became part of the controversy by referring to Gates in a mass e-mail as a "banana-eating jungle monkey."

Apparently he had been with the force since the turn of the 19th century.

Do people still talk like that? I know racists are inherently rooted in the past, but even that seems too archaic.

[perceptrons]

Apparently he had been with the force since the turn of the 19th century.

Do people still talk like that? I know racists are inherently rooted in the past, but even that seems too archaic.
But, of course, the officer said, "I have so many friends of every type of culture and race you can name. I am not a racist."

Sure you're not buddy, we all accidentally refer to black people as "banana eating jungle monkeys" sometime in our lives.

[saysmydoctor]

But, of course, the officer said, "I have so many friends of every type of culture and race you can name. I am not a racist."

Sure you're not buddy, we all accidentally refer to black people as "banana eating jungle monkeys" sometime in our lives.
x2DxyAGzGxM

?

[Praetor]

But, of course, the officer said, "I have so many friends of every type of culture and race you can name. I am not a racist."

Sure you're not buddy, we all accidentally refer to black people as "banana eating jungle monkeys" sometime in our lives.
I love how bigots use that as a copout. "Oh yeah, I have black friends and stuff, I just enjoy calling people ******s." "Oh, my great uncle twice removed is gay, I have nothing against gay people, I just think that they're ******s and shouldn't have the right to marry/serve in the military."

[perceptrons]

x2DxyAGzGxM

?
I suppose the cop could be just like Randall.