Henry Gates Jr.

[theguilt engine]

should have been arrested. end of story.

bias journalism like this should not be allowed: http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090723/OPINION16/907230341/1004/OPINION

[sjb2k1]

biased journalism or opinion column?

[WakingTheMisery]

Why should he have been arrested?

[ruffian]

I've been reading about this all week. Can't see why you think he should have been arrested.

[theguilt engine]

You can't just treat a police officer with disrespect and get away with it.

[Susanna]

Wow, I honestly cannot understand why you legitimately think he should have been arrested.

[NickLopez]

Wow, I honestly cannot understand why you legitimately think he should have been arrested.
^^

[*crying stars*]

You've got to be kidding me.

[ruffian]

http://www.slate.com/id/2223379/

This is a pretty explicit defense of his actions.

[WakingTheMisery]

Oh, it's a joke.

[ruffian]

oh....ok

[ArmedROBery]

I'm really outta the loop on this whole issue... but from what little I've gathered, sounds pretty bullshit.

[theguilt engine]

Police had probable cause to question him, and he didn't comply.

[WakingTheMisery]

Police had probable cause to question him, and he didn't comply.

I heard it went down like this:

kHoSREV3bos

[OveriseFan]

Police had probable cause to question him, and he didn't comply.

Exactly. The guy immediately starts screaming "Racist" when the police asked him for identification? Come on...

He wasn't arrested on charges of burglary or anything; it was disorderly conduct.

"He was booked for disorderly conduct after “exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior,” according to a police report. Gates accused the investigating officer of being a racist and told him he had "no idea who he was messing with,'' the report said. Gates told the officer that he was being targeted because "I'm a black man in America.''"


Gates had in his head once he saw the police that it was "racial profiling". I mean, it seems a bit ridiculous to me, to blindly defend Gates. I'm not saying the police were completely in the right, either, but I don't see how it's so obvious that the arrest was wrong.

[theguilt engine]

Exactly. The guy immediately starts screaming "Racist" when the police asked him for identification? Come on...

He wasn't arrested on charges of burglary or anything; it was disorderly conduct.

"He was booked for disorderly conduct after “exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior,” according to a police report. Gates accused the investigating officer of being a racist and told him he had "no idea who he was messing with,'' the report said. Gates told the officer that he was being targeted because "I'm a black man in America.''"


Gates had in his head once he saw the police that it was "racial profiling". I mean, it seems a bit ridiculous to me, to blindly defend Gates. I'm not saying the police were completely in the right, either, but I don't see how it's so obvious that the arrest was wrong.
Thank God someone else actually read into this situation...

Media can brainwash you, people.

[selftitled85]

Should he have been arrested? Nope...if people think he should have then you are crazy. Did Gates act like a raging douche beforehand? Of course.

Do I think the police officer is a racist? Nope. Gates acted like a prick. While he did not deserve to be arrested, the cop also deserved more respect then blatant disregard.

Both sides are at fault. The sad thing is this cop had been a model citizen before hand. Hell, he taught a class on racial profiling for the police academy. He was hand picked to teach, BY HIS BLACK CAPTAIN. Now his reputation is tarnished and chances are he will be working a desk in the near future. He does not deserve that.

[OveriseFan]

Should he have been arrested? Nope...if people think he should have then you are crazy. Did Gates act like a raging douche beforehand? Of course.

Do I think the police officer is a racist? Nope. Gates acted like a prick. While he did not deserve to be arrested, the cop also deserved more respect then blatant disregard.

Both sides are at fault. The sad thing is this cop had been a model citizen before hand. Hell, he taught a class on racial profiling for the police academy. He was hand picked to teach, BY HIS BLACK CAPTAIN. Now his reputation is tarnished and chances are he will be working a desk in the near future. He does not deserve that.

If you act like a "raging douche" then you can (and should!) be arrested. He was verbally attacking a police officer for no reason. There was legitimate cause to ask for identification; Gates immediately went crying, "Racist."

The cop is not at fault. And he won't be stuck behind a desk, because last I read the Boston Police Dept. had no intention of disciplining the officer.

[Simulcast]

Should he have been arrested? Nope...if people think he should have then you are crazy. Did Gates act like a raging douche beforehand? Of course.

Do I think the police officer is a racist? Nope. Gates acted like a prick. While he did not deserve to be arrested, the cop also deserved more respect then blatant disregard.

Both sides are at fault. The sad thing is this cop had been a model citizen before hand. Hell, he taught a class on racial profiling for the police academy. He was hand picked to teach, BY HIS BLACK CAPTAIN. Now his reputation is tarnished and chances are he will be working a desk in the near future. He does not deserve that.

A sensible take on this whole mess. The worst part is that Obama stuck his nose in this business, trying to prove a point. So silly of him.

[GuitarR0cker1]

If you act like a "raging douche" then you can (and should!) be arrested. He was verbally attacking a police officer for no reason. There was legitimate cause to ask for identification; Gates immediately went crying, "Racist."

The cop is not at fault. And he won't be stuck behind a desk, because last I read the Boston Police Dept. had no intention of disciplining the officer.
There was a pretty valid reason why he was verbally attacking the police officer. I mean sure it seems to stupid to me but I am sure that if you are an older black man that you would have loads of resentment for being racially targeted. That doesn't mean anything he did was right but it doesn't mean he should be arrested. Mouthing off to a cop in lots of cases should not mean being arrested.

[OveriseFan]

There was a pretty valid reason why he was verbally attacking the police officer. I mean sure it seems to stupid to me but I am sure that if you are an older black man that you would have loads of resentment for being racially targeted. That doesn't mean anything he did was right but it doesn't mean he should be arrested. Mouthing off to a cop in lots of cases should not mean being arrested.

The suspect of a robbery in a nearby house was a black man. A black man is at a house door having trouble getting a door open. Do you not see how this is suspicious?

When the cop asks for identification, the man doesn't offer it up right away and instead accuses the cop of being a racist. Completely absurd.

[J.C.]

1. Gates shouldn't have been arrested.

2. The actions of Crowley weren't racially motivated. He was doing his job.

3. Gates was idiotic in his behavior and was wrong to call the cop a racist.

4. Calling a cop a racist isn't an arrestable offense.

5. Gates deserved enough leeway after having proven it was his home that it should've taken a hell of a lot more than a verbal berating to justify cuffing him.

[GuitarR0cker1]

The suspect of a robbery in a nearby house was a black man. A black man is at a house door having trouble getting a door open. Do you not see how this is suspicious?

When the cop asks for identification, the man doesn't offer it up right away and instead accuses the cop of being a racist. Completely absurd.
Yes but did the man know this? I'm basically trying to play devil's advocate here that the guy hate the right to be angry at the cops. I think everything he did was wrong and stupid. He should have cooperated but instead he acted like a douche. I think that the reason for why he got upset and started yelling though makes some sense.

I think the police should know a little better on how to confront people on their own property or when they start being accused of being racist. Mistakes happen though.

[J.C.]

When the cop asks for identification, the man doesn't offer it up right away and instead accuses the cop of being a racist. Completely absurd.

I don't know why you keep returning to this. That's not grounds for an arrest. You're just complaining about him using the race card, which is an issue worthy of social commentary on it's own, but it's not a fact that justifies being placed in handcuffs and hauled away to jail.

[OveriseFan]

I don't know why you keep returning to this. That's not grounds for an arrest. You're just complaining about him using the race card, which is an issue worthy of social commentary on it's own, but it's not a fact that justifies being placed in handcuffs and hauled away to jail.

You're right. And I was about to make a comment about how we don't know exactly how it all went down, because we weren't there. BUT I believe that Gates' ranting must have gotten so out of hand, that it warranted arrest on the grounds of disorderly conduct.

"Section 53. Common night walkers, common street walkers, both male and female, common railers and brawlers, persons who with offensive and disorderly acts or language accost or annoy persons of the opposite sex, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons in speech or behavior, idle and disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace, keepers of noisy and disorderly houses, and persons guilty of indecent exposure may be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment."

Who knows? But if you think the cop wasn't racist, then I assume that it must have gotten too out of hand. I think the fact that Gates has so many supporters is crazy.

[ambulance]

So showing his id, then asking for badge numbers (which the police officers wouldn't give out) is grounds for arresting him? Riiight. Even if he did handle the situation worse than that, there was still no reason to arrest him. All the police officers had to do were leave once they realized it was his house but they didn't. His arrest was completely out of line.

[thesafeword]

If racism was a prominate issue in today's society, I would see where he was coming from, but come on. His conduct was disorderly, so he got arrested for it just like anybody else, regardless of race, would have been. Just because a white police officer arrested a black man, it's racist?

[NickLopez]

If racism was a prominate issue in today's society, I would see where he was coming from, but come on. His conduct was disorderly, so he got arrested for it just like anybody else, regardless of race, would have been. Just because a white police officer arrested a black man, it's racist?

Are you kidding? Racism is absolutely a prominent issue in today's society. Maybe you've not had the same experiences I've had, being in WA (even though I know there's not much going on in Pullman..), but one year at OU has shown that racism is still very, very much a big thing.

[ambulance]

If racism was a prominate issue in today's society, I would see where he was coming from, but come on. His conduct was disorderly, so he got arrested for it just like anybody else, regardless of race, would have been. Just because a white police officer arrested a black man, it's racist?

lofuckingl

[JuneJuly]

Exactly. The guy immediately starts screaming "Racist" when the police asked him for identification? Come on...

He wasn't arrested on charges of burglary or anything; it was disorderly conduct.

"He was booked for disorderly conduct after “exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior,” according to a police report. Gates accused the investigating officer of being a racist and told him he had "no idea who he was messing with,'' the report said. Gates told the officer that he was being targeted because "I'm a black man in America.''"


Gates had in his head once he saw the police that it was "racial profiling". I mean, it seems a bit ridiculous to me, to blindly defend Gates. I'm not saying the police were completely in the right, either, but I don't see how it's so obvious that the arrest was wrong.

This. Not saying that it happened, but what is this Gates dude is just a dick? What if he was being a dick to the cop? You can't blame everything on race.

[thesafeword]

Are you kidding? Racism is absolutely a prominent issue in today's society. Maybe you've not had the same experiences I've had, being in WA (even though I know there's not much going on in Pullman..), but one year at OU has shown that racism is still very, very much a big thing.

lofuckingl
I'm sure he's subject to racism everyday at his dangerous job as a Harvard professor. This whole situation was caused by bad communication between the police officer and Gates and now he's playing the race card.

And racism as a whole in America is not that prominent of an issue, sure there are isolated cases around the country and still traces of it in the south, but it is nothing like it was in the past. People aren't running around lynching black people, they can sit wherever the fuck they want on the bus, they can get any job that they want, etc.

[OveriseFan]

So showing his id, then asking for badge numbers (which the police officers wouldn't give out) is grounds for arresting him? Riiight. Even if he did handle the situation worse than that, there was still no reason to arrest him. All the police officers had to do were leave once they realized it was his house but they didn't. His arrest was completely out of line.

"Loud and tumultuous" behavior according to the police report, which fits right into the Disorderly Conduct charge. Stop making it about what he was doing, because it's how he did it that's the problem.

He also refused to show I.D. at first; he started calling the police officers racist before proving it was his house, from everything I've read.

[OveriseFan]

If racism was a prominate issue in today's society, I would see where he was coming from, but come on. His conduct was disorderly, so he got arrested for it just like anybody else, regardless of race, would have been. Just because a white police officer arrested a black man, it's racist?

You are a damn fool if you think that.

[_Sumeet_]

biased journalism or opinion column?

EXACTLY.
I believe the point of a column is to opine thoughts.

[The Pharmacist]

Exactly. The guy immediately starts screaming "Racist" when the police asked him for identification? Come on...

He wasn't arrested on charges of burglary or anything; it was disorderly conduct.

"He was booked for disorderly conduct after “exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior,” according to a police report. Gates accused the investigating officer of being a racist and told him he had "no idea who he was messing with,'' the report said. Gates told the officer that he was being targeted because "I'm a black man in America.''"


Gates had in his head once he saw the police that it was "racial profiling". I mean, it seems a bit ridiculous to me, to blindly defend Gates. I'm not saying the police were completely in the right, either, but I don't see how it's so obvious that the arrest was wrong.


b/c he was in his home. it wasn't public property. you can be disorderly in your own home as long as you don't hurt anyone. The guy never touched the police officer, so he shouldn't have been arrested. you can't arrest someone for talking shit in his own home. The ex-chief of police is my next door neighbor he explained it all to me.

[thesafeword]

You are a damn fool if you think that.
Then I'm a damn fool, because I just don't see racism being something that is affecting our country like it has in the past. Would a racist country elect a colored man as their president?

I mean, there are so many more issues right now that are more important for our nation's progress than racism.

[_Sumeet_]

The facts surrounding this whole thing aren't very clear, but from what I've seen/read it looks like both parties are in the wrong.
What I find really unnecessary though is Pres. Obama's comment about the Cambridge police acting "stupidly." He could have gone the route of Gov. Patrick by saying something less blunt and more eloquent. It just seems really political to me.

[OveriseFan]

b/c he was in his home. it wasn't public property. you can be disorderly in your own home as long as you don't hurt anyone. The guy never touched the police officer, so he shouldn't have been arrested. you can't arrest someone for talking shit in his own home. The ex-chief of police is my next door neighbor he explained it all to me.

"In his home?" I've read it was outside his home at his door. In which case.

...and even so, you're wrong about: "you can be disorderly in your own home as long as you don't hurt anyone." Not true. I posted the law somewhere around here - go read it.

[The Pharmacist]

Then I'm a damn fool, because I just don't see racism being something that is affecting our country like it has in the past. Would a racist country elect a colored man as their president?

I mean, there are so many more issues right now that are more important for our nation's progress than racism.


no offense dude, but i think you don't see a lot of it b/c you are white. I'm not here to offend, just to say, as a minority, there is still A LOT of racism, and not just in the South dude. Obviously it's not as bad as it was in the past, but Gates has seen and grew up with a once very racist America. He was just trying to get into his house, and already frustrated about that, and when a cop shows up thinking you're trying to break in, i'm not surprised Gates pulled a racist card, if he did at all.

[The Pharmacist]

"In his home?" I've read it was outside his home at his door. In which case.

...and even so, you're wrong about: "you can be disorderly in your own home as long as you don't hurt anyone." Not true. I posted the law somewhere around here - go read it.


His property/front steps= his home. OH and yes i did read what you posted, but i heard from an actual cop's mouth that you can not arrest a person for arguing with someone in his house. No one called the cops on the man being disorderly. they called the cops b/c they thought Gates was trying to break into his house.

[saysmydoctor]

1. Gates shouldn't have been arrested.

2. The actions of Crowley weren't racially motivated. He was doing his job.

3. Gates was idiotic in his behavior and was wrong to call the cop a racist.

4. Calling a cop a racist isn't an arrestable offense.

5. Gates deserved enough leeway after having proven it was his home that it should've taken a hell of a lot more than a verbal berating to justify cuffing him.
End of fucking discussion, right here. The arrest was 100% unwarranted.

[SlappedActor]

Gates shouldn't have been arrested, but I'm glad the cop isn't going to be disciplined. I don't really see this as an "Issue" with a capital "I", it just seems like two people being dumbasses.

[thesafeword]

no offense dude, but i think you don't see a lot of it b/c you are white. I'm not here to offend, just to say, as a minority, there is still A LOT of racism, and not just in the South dude. Obviously it's not as bad as it was in the past, but Gates has seen and grew up with a once very racist America. He was just trying to get into his house, and already frustrated about that, and when a cop shows up thinking you're trying to break in, i'm not surprised Gates pulled a racist card, if he did at all.
Okay, from what I've pulled from with this situation, there was no racial profiling. Somebody saw what they described as a black man trying to break into a house, so they called the police. The police show up and see the described man doing what appears to be breaking into a house. Due to bad communication between Gates and the officer, the situation broke down and Gates' conduct got disorderly towards the officer, so the officer arrested him for disorderly conduct regardless of his race. And the unnecessary media attention this is getting is due to Gates trying to play the race card. Both men overreacted and they should've settled this without making such a big deal about it. Like I said earlier, we have bigger problems in our country to deal with rather than this little case.

[_Sumeet_]

His property/front steps= his home. OH and yes i did read what you posted, but i heard from an actual cop's mouth that you can not arrest a person for arguing with someone in his house. No one called the cops on the man being disorderly. they called the cops b/c they thought Gates was trying to break into his house.

Laws vary a bit from state to state. Here it seems that "public inconvenience" and "violent behavior" are the basis for arresting under disorderly conduct. Was Gates yelling at the officers? Is that considered violent behavior? You could argue both sides. It's all pretty subjective.

[OveriseFan]

His property/front steps= his home. OH and yes i did read what you posted, but i heard from an actual cop's mouth that you can not arrest a person for arguing with someone in his house. No one called the cops on the man being disorderly. they called the cops b/c they thought Gates was trying to break into his house.

I assume this is a NY cop? I don't know what their law says; I posted the Massachusetts State Law.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

1. Gates shouldn't have been arrested.

2. The actions of Crowley weren't racially motivated. He was doing his job.

3. Gates was idiotic in his behavior and was wrong to call the cop a racist.

4. Calling a cop a racist isn't an arrestable offense.

5. Gates deserved enough leeway after having proven it was his home that it should've taken a hell of a lot more than a verbal berating to justify cuffing him.

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1599/claply7.gif

[The Pharmacist]

I assume this is a NY cop? I don't know what their law says; I posted the Massachusetts State Law.


It is a new york cop. I guess the laws are different from state to state.

[ambulance]

Okay, from what I've pulled from with this situation, there was no racial profiling. Somebody saw what they described as a black man trying to break into a house, so they called the police. The police show up and see the described man doing what appears to be breaking into a house. Due to bad communication between Gates and the officer, the situation broke down and Gates' conduct got disorderly towards the officer, so the officer arrested him for disorderly conduct regardless of his race. And the unnecessary media attention this is getting is due to Gates trying to play the race card. Both men overreacted and they should've settled this without making such a big deal about it. Like I said earlier, we have bigger problems in our country to deal with rather than this little case.

LOL you obviously haven't read what went down. He was already inside his house, getting a cup out of his cupboard/calling the real estate agency and the police just busted in his house. All of this took place INSIDE his home. Look at the pictures it shows him being taken OUT of his house, with cuffs already on.

[Praetor]

If racism was a prominate issue in today's society, I would see where he was coming from, but come on. His conduct was disorderly, so he got arrested for it just like anybody else, regardless of race, would have been. Just because a white police officer arrested a black man, it's racist?
I know people have already pointed this out to you but this statement is idiotic and you deserve to be made fun of for it.

[ambulance]

I'm sure he's subject to racism everyday at his dangerous job as a Harvard professor. This whole situation was caused by bad communication between the police officer and Gates and now he's playing the race card.

And racism as a whole in America is not that prominent of an issue, sure there are isolated cases around the country and still traces of it in the south, but it is nothing like it was in the past. People aren't running around lynching black people, they can sit wherever the fuck they want on the bus, they can get any job that they want, etc.

Right, so because he isn't subject to it means it doesn't exist. Did you even read what he had to say about the situation? Obviously not.

And of course its not plaguing the US like it did, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exists, and isn't still a problem. Come down to the South and tell me 'they can get any job that they want.' Fucking ridiculous. Its people like you that gloss over the issue that still leaves room for racism to be present in our society.

[thesafeword]

LOL you obviously haven't read what went down. He was already inside his house, getting a cup out of his cupboard/calling the real estate agency and the police just busted in his house. All of this took place INSIDE his home. Look at the pictures it shows him being taken OUT of his house, with cuffs already on.
The man was arrested for disorderly conduct and because he is black, it's racist? This whole situation was blown out of proportion and it was handled wrong by both parties, but it was no way racist. This didn't happen because he is black.
I know people have already pointed this out to you but this statement is idiotic and you deserve to be made fun of for it.
Racism may still exist, but it is far from a prominent and pressing issue in our country at this time.
Right, so because he isn't subject to it means it doesn't exist. Did you even read what he had to say about the situation? Obviously not.

And of course its not plaguing the US like it did, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exists, and isn't still a problem. Come down to the South and tell me 'they can get any job that they want.' Fucking ridiculous. Its people like you that gloss over the issue that still leaves room for racism to be present in our society.
Yeah, I'm pretty much responsible for racism today, call the ACLU so they can sue me now.

[Praetor]

Racism may still exist, but it is far from a prominent and pressing issue in our country at this time.
This is incorrect. I could quote you song and verse about how wrong you are but this should suffice.

[thesafeword]

This is incorrect. I could quote you song and verse about how wrong you are but this should suffice.
Racism, unlike our budget and health care and the war, isn't tearing the country apart. We have bigger things to fix and worry about.

[Praetor]

Racism, unlike our budget and health care and the war, isn't tearing the country apart. We have bigger things to fix and worry about.
Wrong on both accounts.

[thesafeword]

Wrong on both accounts.
You're right, black people are being so oppressed right now. Fuck the war, fuck our health care system, fuck the economy, all of that shit will fix itself and if it doesn't... then fuck it. Right now we need to worry about all of the angry white men running around calling black people '******s' and lynching them, we need to make sure that black people can vote and run for office and we need to make sure black people have equal opportunities.

Stop being ridiculous, we have much bigger problems.

[Praetor]

You're right, black people are being so oppressed right now. Fuck the war, fuck our health care system, fuck the economy, all of that shit will fix itself and if it doesn't... then fuck it. Right now we need to worry about all of the angry white men running around calling black people '******s' and lynching them, we need to make sure that black people can vote and run for office and we need to make sure black people have equal opportunities.

Stop being ridiculous, we have much bigger problems.
There's a difference between individual and institutional racism there, champ. And I think that you being sarcastic about the bold belies your true feelings on the issue.

[thesafeword]

And for the record, I have nothing against black people and I view them as equal members of our society. I just think that it's ridiculous that people are acting like they're still having their rights oppressed in this country.

[thesafeword]

There's a difference between individual and institutional racism there, champ. And I think that you being sarcastic about the bold belies your true feelings on the issue.
Sure there are isolated cases of individuals being racist, but we take care of those things in the courts. There are groups, for all demographics, to protect their rights in this country. As a whole though, racism is not tearing our country apart and stopping us from progressing. Like I have been saying, we have more prominent issues to deal with.

[Praetor]

http://www.p360.org/temp/dsg598_500_350.jpg

http://www.bsos.umd.edu/socy/vanneman/socy441/trends/povrace.jpg

You misunderstand me. I'm saying that institutional racism still exists in addition to individual racism.

[BottleRocket]

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1599/claply7.gif
that crowd looks like they'd be clapping at blackface

[Until The Bombs]

Ignore the ignorance. I'm pretty sure they don't have black people in Washington (the state).

[brentywat]

i am a generally conservative person, but i've been trying to be fair to our president in his decisions until he said something about this issue this week. he has no right to interfere in what should have been a local issue and was blown way out of proportion. furthermore, he shouldn't criticize the police so quickly like that. people will now feel so much bolder to question legitimate police authority to do their job now that the president has done it so easily. when it comes down to it, both sides probably way overreacted in this incident. lets get over it now.

on another note, i have heard more about racism this week than i have in years. not just because of this issue, but also different things i keep talking to people about or hearing about. weird.

[Until The Bombs]

It was a lose-lose situation for Obama. As the most prominant African American in the world, if he didn't side with Gates, he would have been criticized by African American leaders.

In siding with Gates, some would say that he's critized the police on not just a local level but the national level.

If he hadn't commented, on what was already a national story, he would have been seen as a coward who was afraid to address the issue for political reasons.

I wish he didn't have to address it at all, he wasn't there, it's simply him taking one man's word over another's.

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.p360.org/temp/dsg598_500_350.jpg

http://www.bsos.umd.edu/socy/vanneman/socy441/trends/povrace.jpg

You misunderstand me. I'm saying that institutional racism still exists in addition to individual racism.
Institutional racism is pretty blatant when you consider the incarceration rate for African Americans and other minorities over whites. Same with institutional classism.

[selftitled85]

So showing his id, then asking for badge numbers (which the police officers wouldn't give out) is grounds for arresting him? Riiight. Even if he did handle the situation worse than that, there was still no reason to arrest him. All the police officers had to do were leave once they realized it was his house but they didn't. His arrest was completely out of line.

He wasn't arrested for that. He was arrested for not cooperating. The fact is no matter who you are you should be willing to tell the police off the bat what is going on. When the cop came forward he should have willingly shown his identification to the cop. Why? Because the cop has no clue who you are and was called about a possible robbery at said location. Gates would not do that at the start and called the officer a racist for doing so.

[Praetor]

Institutional racism is pretty blatant when you consider the incarceration rate for African Americans and other minorities over whites. Same with institutional classism.
You would have to be willfully ignorant to facts to argue anything otherwise.

[thesafeword]

http://www.p360.org/temp/dsg598_500_350.jpg

http://www.bsos.umd.edu/socy/vanneman/socy441/trends/povrace.jpg

You misunderstand me. I'm saying that institutional racism still exists in addition to individual racism.
You didn't quote me, so I didn't see that you responded, so sorry about that. And I see where you're coming from with this, and institutional racism is undeniable, but I don't think that it's being done on purpose or blatantly by anybody. For whatever reason, minorities are more poverty stricken, but this is a problem that will be fixed as the economy is fixed, so it still isn't our number one concern if you ask me. If we do our best to fix the economy as a whole, then these poverty rates among minorities will be improved with it as well as unemployment rates for every race.
It was a lose-lose situation for Obama. As the most prominant African American in the world, if he didn't side with Gates, he would have been criticized by African American leaders.

In siding with Gates, some would say that he's critized the police on not just a local level but the national level.

If he hadn't commented, on what was already a national story, he would have been seen as a coward who was afraid to address the issue for political reasons.

I wish he didn't have to address it at all, he wasn't there, it's simply him taking one man's word over another's.
This whole situation got blown out of proportion and shouldn't have even got much media attention. It really put Obama in an unfair situation, because as you said, it was a lose-lose for him.

[saysmydoctor]

I wouldn't cooperate either when a cop walks into my house without reason.

[thesafeword]

He wasn't arrested for that. He was arrested for not cooperating. The fact is no matter who you are you should be willing to tell the police off the bat what is going on. When the cop came forward he should have willingly shown his identification to the cop. Why? Because the cop has no clue who you are and was called about a possible robbery at said location. Gates would not do that at the start and called the officer a racist for doing so.
And because the officer did his job, he was racially profiling? I don't get America sometimes.

[Praetor]

but this is a problem that will be fixed as the economy is fixed
Did you even look at the second graph that I posted? Even in times of economic prosperity (like the 80's) minorities live in poverty in much higher proportions than whites. I honestly do not understand how you feel this way unless you are being willfully ignorant.

The problem: you are ignorant about both the economy and racism. Read a book.

[ambulance]

You didn't quote me, so I didn't see that you responded, so sorry about that. And I see where you're coming from with this, and institutional racism is undeniable, but I don't think that it's being done on purpose or blatantly by anybody. For whatever reason, minorities are more poverty stricken, but this is a problem that will be fixed as the economy is fixed, so it still isn't our number one concern if you ask me. If we do our best to fix the economy as a whole, then these poverty rates among minorities will be improved with it as well as unemployment rates for every race.

This whole situation got blown out of proportion and shouldn't have even got much media attention. It really put Obama in an unfair situation, because as you said, it was a lose-lose for him.

Not that simple at all dude.

[saysmydoctor]

And because the officer did his job, he was racially profiling? I don't get America sometimes.
Join the club. Even I agree Gates, though he had an understandable whine, kind of reacted flippantly. The race card is dismissed nowadays because people like him make it easily dismissed.

[saysmydoctor]

Not that simple at all dude.
Here I thought the clapper would solve our economic woes. I've had the wrong avatar!

[ambulance]

He wasn't arrested for that. He was arrested for not cooperating. The fact is no matter who you are you should be willing to tell the police off the bat what is going on. When the cop came forward he should have willingly shown his identification to the cop. Why? Because the cop has no clue who you are and was called about a possible robbery at said location. Gates would not do that at the start and called the officer a racist for doing so.

But he did cooperate, maybe not at first, but I wouldn't either when cops just bust in YOUR home for what would seem like no reason at all. And it was only once he was being 'disorderly' that he was arrested. NOT for not cooperating.

[Praetor]

You come home from vacation and an officer barges in and demand you show your ID. Are you gonna be like "Oh here, Officer, have a swell night!" No, you're going to be pissed and you're going to want to cause a racket whether there was probable cause to believe that Gates was a burglar or not.

[selftitled85]

I wouldn't cooperate either when a cop walks into my house without reason.

Just because you don't know of the reason does not mean there isn't one.

[saysmydoctor]

Just because you don't know of the reason does not mean there isn't one.
Fourth amendment brah dude.

[selftitled85]

You come home from vacation and an officer barges in and demand you show your ID. Are you gonna be like "Oh here, Officer, have a swell night!" No, you're going to be pissed and you're going to want to cause a racket whether there was probable cause to believe that Gates was a burglar or not.

The officer should have told the man "someone called about a possible burglary at this location. I am sorry if this is your house but I need to confirm who you are."

And theres a smart way to go about "causing a racket' and a dumb way. Gates chose poorly. What's the smart way? Showing his ID to the cop and then going to the station and stating your case. OR...if you think it was a case of racial profiling, have a press conference and state your case. Gates chose poorly.

[thesafeword]

Did you even look at the second graph that I posted? Even in times of economic prosperity (like the 80's) minorities live in poverty in much higher proportions than whites. I honestly do not understand how you feel this way unless you are being willfully ignorant.

The problem: you are ignorant about both the economy and racism. Read a book.
The rates are getting much better though and they are decreasing and have been for a few years according to the graph. With this generation and the last, much more of these minorities have been going to college and earning better careers, ones that there ancestors were not allowed to have, so I expect those poverty rates to continue to go down.
Not that simple at all dude.
Improve would be a better word than fix.

[Praetor]

The officer should have told the man "someone called about a possible burglary at this location. I am sorry if this is your house but I need to confirm who you are."

And theres a smart way to go about "causing a racket' and a dumb way. Gates chose poorly. What's the smart way? Showing his ID to the cop and then going to the station and stating your case. OR...if you think it was a case of racial profiling, have a press conference and state your case. Gates chose poorly.
I was not aware that bad decisions were cause for arrest.
The rates are getting much better though and they are decreasing and have been for a few years according to the graph. With this generation and the last, much more of these minorities have been going to college and earning better careers, ones that there ancestors were not allowed to have, so I expect those poverty rates to continue to go down.
As do I. Still...just because institutional racism is improving doesn't mean that it's not a problem.

[selftitled85]

Fourth amendment brah dude.

Did the cop take anything from the house? The cop did have probable cause. He was called there in suspicion of a burglary. It takes a while to get a warrant. If a cop has to wait to get a warrant to possibly go to a house to stop a burglary would mean nothing would get done.

Also, the black officer at the scene states that the officer acted rationally and correctly.

[thesafeword]

This situation is so simple. The two sides need to issue an apology and admit that they both overreacted. This case had nothing to do with racial profiling or racism, it was mix-up caused by bad communications between Gates and the officer.

[selftitled85]

I was not aware that bad decisions were cause for arrest.


As I stated, I don't think Gates should have been arrested. Still does not mean he acted smartly. He acted like a royal douche.

[thesafeword]

I was not aware that bad decisions were cause for arrest.

As do I. Still...just because institutional racism is improving doesn't mean that it's not a problem.
It may still be a problem, but I expect to improve immensely as more and more minorities are able to go to college and earn better paying careers.

[Praetor]

Did the cop take anything from the house? The cop did have probable cause. He was called there in suspicion of a burglary. It takes a while to get a warrant. If a cop has to wait to get a warrant to possibly go to a house to stop a burglary would mean nothing would get done.

Also, the black officer at the scene states that the officer acted rationally and correctly.
Wait, policemen stick together? How long have you been sitting on this information?

[Praetor]

It may still be a problem, but I expect to improve immensely as more and more minorities are able to go to college and earn better paying careers.
Cool, concession accepted.

[saysmydoctor]

Did the cop take anything from the house? The cop did have probable cause. He was called there in suspicion of a burglary. It takes a while to get a warrant. If a cop has to wait to get a warrant to possibly go to a house to stop a burglary would mean nothing would get done.

Also, the black officer at the scene states that the officer acted rationally and correctly.
Well, he did take Gates from his own home. I think that's the source of controversy here.

Also, the black officer was called as backup AFTER the initial incident. I've already stated this was not a racist issue, this was a job performance issue. I don't think Crowley or Gates performed decently here at all. It is however Crowley's last, the unwarranted arrest of Gates, that is ultimately the most unjustified.

[selftitled85]

Wait, policemen stick together? How long have you been sitting on this information?

10 minutes. Interview on CNN.

[Love As Arson]

I remember when I was handcuffed because I was "walking on a known drug corner", then patted down and placed against a police car while they ran my record. Guess they were just doing their job and didn't understand that some people can't afford to live in affluent suburbs. Good times.

[INhopewefail]

I'm sure a white person has been arrested by a black police officer under similar circumstances, why wasn't this news?

[selftitled85]

I remember when I was handcuffed because I was "walking on a known drug corner", then patted down and placed against a police car while they ran my record. Guess they were just doing their job and didn't understand that some people can't afford to live in affluent suburbs. Good times.

Theres a large difference between the two scenarios. You were a victim of racism because the cops racial profiled you since you were on a "known drug corner."

The cops were called to the house for a suspected burglary. They have a reason to ask the person there what he is doing there. They don't know if the owner is white or black. It is their job to make sure there was no burglary.

In the top case the cops had no probable cause for searching you. In the bottom case...they did. They were called...they were told of a possible break-in. Probable cause was there.

[diehtc0ke]

I'm sure a white person has been arrested by a black police officer under similar circumstances, why wasn't this news?
Was that white person a well known and highly prominent Harvard professor?

[selftitled85]

Come on Dom I expect more of you than giving a meaningless story with absolutely nothing at all to do with the story at hand. The only similar thing is you are black and was patted down by a white officer. The situations are vastly different.

[thesafeword]

Cool, concession accepted.
Cool, you threw up numbers on me. It's still not nearly as drastic of an issue as you make it to be, especially because it is improving. And again, as we improve the economy, this will improve.

[selftitled85]

Was that white person a well known and highly prominent Harvard professor?

Should it make any difference whatsoever? I have heard of Gates before. But chances are I could not pick him out of a group of 5 prominent black guys.

[diehtc0ke]

Should it make any difference whatsoever? I have heard of Gates before. But chances are I could not pick him out of a group of 5 prominent black guys.
According to the media, it does make a difference. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with them.

[Greg.Kushlan]

F3mtLo-bjP8

[Love As Arson]

Come on Dom I expect more of you than giving a meaningless story with absolutely nothing at all to do with the story at hand. The only similar thing is you are black and was patted down by a white officer. The situations are vastly different.
The presumption based on racism is the similarity. I was angry as well,and if you haven't been subject to it,you wouldn't really understand why it eliicits such a response;experience on top of experience will cause that.We should accept it all passively.

[Praetor]

Cool, you threw up numbers on me. It's still not nearly as drastic of an issue as you make it to be, especially because it is improving. And again, as we improve the economy, this will improve.
Yeah, those darned numbers! They sure do get in the way of denying the existence and importance of modern racial issues!

This is a problem that predates our current economic situation by hundreds of years.

[selftitled85]

The presumption based on racism is the similarity. I was angry as well,and if you haven't been subject to it,you wouldn't really understand why it eliicits such a response;experience on top of experience will cause that.We should accept it all passively.

Actually I was subjected to racism when I went overseas. When I was in the Caucases everyone thought I was Arabic and therefore a terrorist. You know how it feels to have lots and lots of people think you are going to blow them up in the name of Allah?

[selftitled85]

Yeah, those darned numbers! They sure do get in the way of denying the existence and importance of modern racial issues!

This is a problem that predates our current economic situation by hundreds of years.

I believe people who still turn to slavery...or ask for reparations...or want an apology from their "owners" need to stop their bitching. No white person alive in this country was alive during the time. Asking them for an apology holds about as much water as having say Spain say sorry to Mexico for invading back in the 1500's.

[Praetor]

I believe people who still turn to slavery...or ask for reparations...or want an apology from their "owners" need to stop their bitching. No white person alive in this country was alive during the time. Asking them for an apology holds about as much water as having say Spain say sorry to Mexico for invading back in the 1500's.
Oh, cool, that's not at all what I was talking about.

[selftitled85]

Oh, cool, that's not at all what I was talking about.

I know that. I'm sorry for some reason your comment just spurned me to say that.

[Love As Arson]

Actually I was subjected to racism when I went overseas. When I was in the Caucases everyone thought I was Arabic and therefore a terrorist. You know how it feels to have lots and lots of people think you are going to blow them up in the name of Allah?
So,you should understand his response to an authority figure castigating him.

[selftitled85]

So,you should understand his response to an authority figure castigating him.

I understand why he was pissed. Does not mean I agree with exactly how he acted. I was pissed for all the eyes I kept getting and having to be patted down every time at the airport. Or being the "random selection" in the states before boarding. But the fact is this is a time where the cop had a reason for being there. He did not just show up on a whim for shits and giggles. The cop showed up there because he was told of a possible break in. Now the cop did a bad job of explaining the situation. But cooler heads could have/should have prevailed. Gates is as much to blame as the cop.

[Love As Arson]

I understand why he was pissed. Does not mean I agree with exactly how he acted. I was pissed for all the eyes I kept getting and having to be patted down every time at the airport. Or being the "random selection" in the states before boarding. But the fact is this is a time where the cop had a reason for being there. He did not just show up on a whim for shits and giggles. The cop showed up there because he was told of a possible break in. Now the cop did a bad job of explaining the situation. But cooler heads could have/should have prevailed. Gates is as much to blame as the cop.
Yes,the person angrily responding to racism is to blame.Also,asking for a badge number is reasonable,given that is the means through which abuse is documented.

[thesafeword]

This is a problem that predates our current economic situation by hundreds of years.
Well, you don't really make much money as a slave or in a country where you aren't seen as equal, luckily, those things are apart of the past and no longer problems for the most part. Now with blacks and hispanics being able to go to college in much bigger numbers than they previously were able to, this problem is only getting better and better.

[selftitled85]

Yes,the person angrily responding to racism is to blame.Also,asking for a badge number is reasonable,given that is the means through which abuse is documented.

And that is true. As I said, both are to blame. Gates is supposedly responding to racism. Conley is supposedly responding to Gates acting like a dick. Just because Gates has had issues in the past does not mean he has the right to completely dismiss a cop when they ask for something.

And Gates got far more than the guys badge number. This guys career is possibly ruined.

[WTG]

Gates should have appreciated the fact that his neighbors were trying to prevent his house from getting broken into. All he had to do was show his ID and explain, end of ordeal, everyone goes home happy. Instead, he got pissed because the cops were just dong their job and trying to protect his house if it was being broken into?

[OveriseFan]

But he did cooperate, maybe not at first, but I wouldn't either when cops just bust in YOUR home for what would seem like no reason at all. And it was only once he was being 'disorderly' that he was arrested. NOT for not cooperating.

You come home from vacation and an officer barges in and demand you show your ID. Are you gonna be like "Oh here, Officer, have a swell night!" No, you're going to be pissed and you're going to want to cause a racket whether there was probable cause to believe that Gates was a burglar or not.

He was having problems with his door. That looks suspicious when there was a robbery in the neighborhood. Jesus, the cop did not kick in the door and say "Prove you live here!"

Learn the story; you both clearly are brainwashed by the media. It's not even about whether the cop or Gates was right or wrong right now; I just want you guys to have the story straight...

And for the record, I have nothing against black people and I view them as equal members of our society. I just think that it's ridiculous that people are acting like they're still having their rights oppressed in this country.

Hahahahaha. Oh God... if you have to say it, and say it like that...

[diehtc0ke]

Well, you don't really make much money as a slave or in a country where you aren't seen as equal, luckily, those things are apart of the past and no longer problems for the most part. Now with blacks and hispanics being able to go to college in much bigger numbers than they previously were able to, this problem is only getting better and better.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/2008/04/22/report-finds-race-based-gap-in-college-grad-rates.html
And a link to the article being referred to:
http://www.educationsector.org/research/research_show.htm?doc_id=678433

[selftitled85]

My co worker is a black guy. He left his keys in his apartment and therefore had to climb up the emergency escape of the row house next to his and jump ninja style onto his buildings emergency escape and open his window to get in. If someone called the cops for witnessing this and a cop asked to see identification after showing up at the premise would that be construed as racism?

[selftitled85]

http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/2008/04/22/report-finds-race-based-gap-in-college-grad-rates.html
And a link to the article being referred to:
http://www.educationsector.org/research/research_show.htm?doc_id=678433

I hate articles like that. It is a colleges job to let people in. From there it is UP TO THE STUDENT to do their job. That means manage their social life and school life. Many (all possibly) colleges offer tutoring, study groups, sessions, and office hours for all students to come and use. If black kids don't use them does that mean racism is at play? I had a number of friends at JMU who were black. One of them was dumb as nails. But he was smart enough to go to study halls and tutoring and therefore graduated with the rest of us. I know of numerous white guys who were just as smart/stupid as him but did not do the same thing and therefore had to transfer. College is what you make of it. That article misses the point.

[Love As Arson]

And that is true. As I said, both are to blame. Gates is supposedly responding to racism. Conley is supposedly responding to Gates acting like a dick. Just because Gates has had issues in the past does not mean he has the right to completely dismiss a cop when they ask for something.
He is responding the way anyone might,if they were treated like a criminal,particularly if it largely relates to an identity that is frequently subjected to abuse by authority figures.
And Gates got far more than the guys badge number. This guys career is possibly ruined.
Good.

[selftitled85]

He is responding the way anyone might,if they were treated like a criminal,particularly if it largely relates to an identity that is frequently subjected to abuse by authority figures.

Good.

No, not good. He was a good officer. He served his town well and everyone respected him. Chances are, doing this, will have a negative effect on relations.

[diehtc0ke]

I hate articles like that. It is a colleges job to let people in. From there it is UP TO THE STUDENT to do their job. That means manage their social life and school life. Many (all possibly) colleges offer tutoring, study groups, sessions, and office hours for all students to come and use. If black kids don't use them does that mean racism is at play? I had a number of friends at JMU who were black. One of them was dumb as nails. But he was smart enough to go to study halls and tutoring and therefore graduated with the rest of us. I know of numerous white guys who were just as smart/stupid as him but did not do the same thing and therefore had to transfer. College is what you make of it. That article misses the point.
If you come from a neighborhood that doesn't support education and these kids aren't taught how to study or how to benefit from tutoring, they can't all just all of a sudden know how to function properly in college settings. Don't you find it slightly disturbing that only 4 percent of low-income black males receive a bachelor's degree by their mid-20s?

[SlappedActor]

I was not aware that bad decisions were cause for arrest.

I'd say most people are arrested because they have made bad decisions.

[selftitled85]

If you come from a neighborhood that doesn't support education and these kids aren't taught how to study or how to benefit from tutoring, they can't all just all of a sudden know how to function properly in college settings. Don't you find it slightly disturbing that only 4 percent of low-income black males receive a bachelor's degree by their mid-20s?

Yes I do. But it is just as much on them if they are given an opportunity like this to actually take it and run with it. My friend from school took the opportunity he was given and ran with it. You got into school? Hey congrats...oh you didn't think you would have to go to class actually? Oh...shame on you. All Freshman going in need to be told what is expected of them. Both white and black freshman deal with similar issues in colleges. They have to deal with sexy coeds, copious amounts of booze, drugs, bad influences, etc. It is up to you to navigate through it.

[SlappedActor]

Good.

Stupid.

[thesafeword]

He was having problems with his door. That looks suspicious when there was a robbery in the neighborhood. Jesus, the cop did not kick in the door and say "Prove you live here!"

Learn the story; you both clearly are brainwashed by the media. It's not even about whether the cop or Gates was right or wrong right now; I just want you guys to have the story straight...



Hahahahaha. Oh God... if you have to say it, and say it like that...
Haha, well I felt as if I was coming off like I looked down upon minorities. Next time I'll try to word it to your liking.

[diehtc0ke]

Yes I do. But it is just as much on them if they are given an opportunity like this to actually take it and run with it. My friend from school took the opportunity he was given and ran with it. You got into school? Hey congrats...oh you didn't think you would have to go to class actually? Oh...shame on you. All Freshman going in need to be told what is expected of them. Both white and black freshman deal with similar issues in colleges. They have to deal with sexy coeds, copious amounts of booze, drugs, bad influences, etc. It is up to you to navigate through it.
My point is not that they deal with different things and some people do it well and some people fail but that though both blacks and whites deal with similar issues, both are not coming from the same experience. If you go through your educational career in a low-income neighborhood with shitty resources and no one to help you, you're not going to wake up knowing how to succeed in college, regardless of your race.

[ambulance]

My point is not that they deal with different things and some people do it well and some people fail but that though both blacks and whites deal with similar issues, both are not coming from the same experience. If you go through your educational career in a low-income neighborhood with shitty resources and no one to help you, you're not going to wake up knowing how to succeed in college, regardless of your race.

He obviously thinks everyone has the same opportunities and abilities/experiences as everyone else brah. If one kid can do it they all can! Socializationwat?

[ambulance]

He was having problems with his door. That looks suspicious when there was a robbery in the neighborhood. Jesus, the cop did not kick in the door and say "Prove you live here!"

Learn the story; you both clearly are brainwashed by the media. It's not even about whether the cop or Gates was right or wrong right now; I just want you guys to have the story straight...



Hahahahaha. Oh God... if you have to say it, and say it like that...

TO GATES, it would seem like they are just breaking in your house. He didn't know the woman called, he obviously wouldn't think off the top of his head 'Oh they are probably coming in here because I was trying to get in THE FRONT DOOR IN MIDDAY.' I mean, come on, you are going to be caught off guard and you are going to react offensively. I don't agree with him about it being racially motivated or anything, but the fact that he was arrested at all is what bothers me.

And the cops did just barge in. They didn't just knock on the door and be like 'SUP WE HEARD THERE WUZ SUM BURGLARZ R U HIM'

[Love As Arson]

No, not good. He was a good officer.
Apparently not.
Chances are, doing this, will have a negative effect on relations.
It should inspire people to be more critical of so-called public servants.

[selftitled85]

Apparently not.

It should inspire people to be more critical of so-called public servants.

Seriously Dom? Apparently not is your answer?? Really? Wow you must be slipping in your old age. You are the one I would expect a filet mignon in the form of an argument. Instead you offer me...the steak offered from IHOP.

Lets look at the facts:

1) The officer is white, Gates is black.
2) Gates and his driver were spotted by someone trying to force his way into his locked door. Person was nervous they were trying to break in and rob the house and called the cops.
3) The officer has a great record. Selected by his black captain to teach a course on racial profiling.
4) The account from the second officer on scene, a black officer, backs what Conley has said.
5) While Conley did overreact, he was driven to said reaction by Gates disregarding what an officer of the law says.
6) Conley did not know Gates, nor did he know Gates lived in the house.

Rational thought from the above information would say that Conley did not profile, nor did he arrest Gates based on his color. Conley had been a stand up officer beforehand and still has the backing of his department. There is a far higher probability that this was not a case of racism, racial profiling, or anything based on race. That aspect was brought up by Gates.

This is a ridiculous argument that has absolutely no ground to stand on in regards to race. The evidence stating Conley's case in my mind far outweighs the case brought up by Gates.

[Machu505]

Good guy. He's from West Virginia.

[mybreakingpoint]

You can't just treat a police officer with disrespect and get away with it.

this a million times

i never understand why people don't get that. i always hear about people being bitchy & rude to cops, and i never, ever see the point. really, is there ever a point to acting like that? even if they are doing something you might feel is stupid or pointless, it never does any good to disrespect them & be a douche, so i don't get why people do it. i've been pulled over 8 times. i've gotten 0 tickets. why? i'm not a dick to cops.

[thesafeword]

this a million times

i never understand why people don't get that. i always hear about people being bitchy & rude to cops, and i never, ever see the point. really, is there ever a point to acting like that? even if they are doing something you might feel is stupid or pointless, it never does any good to disrespect them & be a douche, so i don't get why people do it. i've been pulled over 8 times. i've gotten 0 tickets. why? i'm not a dick to cops.
And you're in the fucking Injured List... oh wait, the cops probably aren't from AP. Haha.

[mybreakingpoint]

And you're in the fucking Injured List... oh wait, the cops probably aren't from AP. Haha.

hahaha. well, it was funny, i got pulled over 2 weeks ago, and i guess they radio'd my name to "headquarters" or whatever, and i had 2 different friends doing 2 separate ride-alongs at the time who heard my name over the radio, and both called me to ask what i got pulled over. it was kinda funny. i guess they told the cops they were with to radio the guy who pulled me over to let me go, so he did. it was kinda cool. i don't think i would have gotten a ticket anyway. i was driving my dad's car, and so i'm not used to having to manually turn my headlights on instead of having them come on automatically, so i drove about 100 yards without headlights on, & he pulled me over. he was really cool though & we were just laid back & chill with him & he let us off without even a lecture.

[thesafeword]

hahaha. well, it was funny, i got pulled over 2 weeks ago, and i guess they radio'd my name to "headquarters" or whatever, and i had 2 different friends doing 2 separate ride-alongs at the time who heard my name over the radio, and both called me to ask what i got pulled over. it was kinda funny. i guess they told the cops they were with to radio the guy who pulled me over to let me go, so he did. it was kinda cool. i don't think i would have gotten a ticket anyway. i was driving my dad's car, and so i'm not used to having to manually turn my headlights on instead of having them come on automatically, so i drove about 100 yards without headlights on, & he pulled me over. he was really cool though & we were just laid back & chill with him & he let us off without even a lecture.
Haha, nice. I've never been pulled over, so am I doing it wrong?

[mybreakingpoint]

Haha, nice. I've never been pulled over, so am I doing it wrong?

sounds like you are. it's cool to drive poorly, so you probably should start going out of your way to do stupid things while driving.

[Praetor]

He was having problems with his door. That looks suspicious when there was a robbery in the neighborhood. Jesus, the cop did not kick in the door and say "Prove you live here!"

Learn the story; you both clearly are brainwashed by the media. It's not even about whether the cop or Gates was right or wrong right now; I just want you guys to have the story straight...



Hahahahaha. Oh God... if you have to say it, and say it like that...
lol @ this. Yes, clearly the only way that I could arrive at the conclusion that I did is by not having all the facts and being brainwashed by the media.
I'd say most people are arrested because they have made bad decisions.
You know what I meant.

[Love As Arson]

Seriously Dom? Apparently not is your answer?? Really? Wow you must be slipping in your old age. You are the one I would expect a filet mignon in the form of an argument. Instead you offer me...the steak offered from IHOP.

Lets look at the facts:

1) The officer is white, Gates is black.
2) Gates and his driver were spotted by someone trying to force his way into his locked door. Person was nervous they were trying to break in and rob the house and called the cops.
3) The officer has a great record. Selected by his black captain to teach a course on racial profiling.
4) The account from the second officer on scene, a black officer, backs what Conley has said.
5) While Conley did overreact, he was driven to said reaction by Gates disregarding what an officer of the law says.
6) Conley did not know Gates, nor did he know Gates lived in the house.

Rational thought from the above information would say that Conley did not profile, nor did he arrest Gates based on his color. Conley had been a stand up officer beforehand and still has the backing of his department. There is a far higher probability that this was not a case of racism, racial profiling, or anything based on race. That aspect was brought up by Gates.

This is a ridiculous argument that has absolutely no ground to stand on in regards to race. The evidence stating Conley's case in my mind far outweighs the case brought up by Gates.

Why? Why all this interest -- besides the curiosity as to whether or not the arresting officer had ever once in his life previously used the word "tumultuous" in a sentence? I think it's 'cause the professor was putting into action what a whole lot of us were thinking: nun-uh. We're sick and tired of having to prove things to the self-righteous reactionary fringe which looks at life as one, big racial profiling traffic stop: Step out of the car Mr. President and show me your birth certificate. Ma'am, could you show me how being a "wise Latina" isn't going to infringe on my male whiteliness? This despite the fact the reactionary fringe is the one with the history of duplicity and infringing.

Culturally this "prove it" mindset dates back to the passage of the 1793 Fugitive Slave Act which put the burden on Freedmen to prove they were in fact not slaves.

You can imagine how the bulk of those cases went down in the 18th century.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-ridley/gates-says-what-a-lot-of_b_244571.html

[ghostyouare]

Hey dom,you hanging with me and eda on thursday?

[Lueda Alia]

Hey dom,you hanging with me and eda on thursday?
Hahaha this made me laugh. Serious thread... interrupted by the one and only.

[ghostyouare]

fuck my original post, im rambling over the retardation of doms article and everyone that thinks that there was no trace of racism involve.

[selftitled85]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-ridley/gates-says-what-a-lot-of_b_244571.html

Once again...you are acting as if Gates was randomly chosen to be checked for being in an uppity neighborhood. He wasn't. Conley didn't wake up in the morning thinking "you know, I think I am going to piss off a black man today and arrest him for no apparent reason." Conley was put in a situatiion where he was told check for a possible burglary. What transpired was anything but normal. But at the same time is not a microcosm of the problem at hand. It is a terrible future example for people to teach in regards to racial profiling and has slim to no proof showing Conley is in fact racist.

[selftitled85]

fuck my original post, im rambling over the retardation of doms article and everyone that thinks that there was no trace of racism involve.

Did you figure out if you are moving to VA?

[ghostyouare]

Did you figure out if you are moving to VA?
Im almost positive I am. I aint got shit keeping me here.

[Jason Tate]

If you act like a "raging douche" then you can (and should!) be arrested. He was verbally attacking a police officer for no reason. There was legitimate cause to ask for identification; Gates immediately went crying, "Racist."

The cop is not at fault. And he won't be stuck behind a desk, because last I read the Boston Police Dept. had no intention of disciplining the officer.
What country are you living in?

[jtsnazzy]

People are taken into custody without definite cause everyday regardless of sex, race, orientation etc. This issue is so overblown it's rather absurd. White people love an opportunity to condemn other white people.

[Jason Tate]

People are taken into custody without definite cause everyday regardless of sex, race, orientation etc. This issue is so overblown it's rather absurd. White people love an opportunity to condemn other white people.
If this is true, it's against the law and the offending officers should be stripped of their badges and the police sued.

Seriously.

[saysmydoctor]

I want someone to show me the statute that states I must be respectful to a cop.

[jtsnazzy]

If this is true, it's gainst the law and the offending officers should be stripped of their badges and the police sued.

Seriously.

It takes very little for a police officer to find a technicality to make an arrest on someone whose hostile towards said officer. Whether it's right or not, it's how it is.

[Jason Tate]

It takes very little for a police officer to find a technicality to make an arrest on someone whose hostile towards said officer. Whether it's right or not, it's how it is.
If this is true, it's against the law and the offending officers should be stripped of their badges and the police sued.

[jtsnazzy]

Ok? I'm not really disagreeing with you.

[loveisdead]

I want someone to show me the statute that states I must be respectful to a cop.
Ha. Good luck finding that.

[ghostyouare]

Crowley, an 11-year veteran of the Cambridge Police Department (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Cambridge+Police+Department), responded to a reported break-in at the renowned scholar's home last Thursday.
A neighbor reported seeing two black men break into the professor's home. She was unaware the man forcing his way inside was Gates, who had locked himself out.
When Crowley arrived, he told an incensed Gates he was investigating a report of a break-in and asked for his identification
"Why? Because I'm a black man in America (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/United+States)," Gates responded, the police report says.
Gates initially refused to hand over his ID, instead angrily accusing the officer of being a racist and "leveling threats that he wasn't someone to mess with," the report says.
After Gates produced his Harvard University (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Harvard+University) ID, he repeatedly demanded Crowley state his name, which the officer claims he had already done.
Crowley said Gates continued hurling insults at him as he left the home. Crowley arrested the scholar for disorderly conduct. The charge was later dropped.
"He was arrested after following me outside the house, continuing the tirade even after being warned multiple times - probably a few more times than the average person would," Crowley told the radio station.

Based off this, I wouldnt call what happend to be racism. I would call it an extreme use of power to square a personal grudge. I think if anyone had any racial tendecies in this it would be gates. You could say its not a race thing its a cop thing, but whatever. Same should apply to the opposite. It wasnt a race thing it was an asshat thing.

-- Didnt mean to quote you tate.

[Jason Tate]

oh, and for the record, I don't think it was racism either -- simply a stupid act by the police officer.

[saysmydoctor]

I agree that Gates overreacted.

That's why I don't think Obama's remarks were out of line. He didn't make it a race issue and he didn't call Crowley a racist. He basically called it a performance issue.

[loveisdead]

I agree that Gates overreacted.

That's why I don't think Obama's remarks were out of line. He didn't make it a race issue and he didn't call Crowley a racist. He basically called it a performance issue.
I've heard the first few things he said was calling him a racist.

[Jason Tate]

I've heard the first few things he said was calling him a racist.
If this were true -- wouldn't those soundbites be everywhere?

[jtsnazzy]

Wow, Gates is an asshole.

[loveisdead]

If this were true -- wouldn't those soundbites be everywhere?
Gates initially refused to hand over his ID, instead angrily accusing the officer of being a racist and "leveling threats that he wasn't someone to mess with," the report says.
From Ghostyouare's post.

[Jason Tate]

From Ghostyouare's post.
Oh, thought you were talking about Obama's statements. That's what you were quoting in reference.

[loveisdead]

Oh, thought you were talking about Obama's statements. That's what you were quoting in reference.
Ah my bad.

[Machu505]

Wow, Gates is an asshole.
Being an asshole is an arrestable offense now?

And if I were being arrested for breaking in my own home, I wouldn't exactly be calm.

[jtsnazzy]

Being an asshole is an arrestable offense now?

Didn't say that. Go pick a fight with someone else.

[Jason Tate]

Interesting quote. So you can assume how easily it would be to arrest the average person.
By the arresting officer. What do you think he's going to say?

And if anyone thinks he's not going to try cover his ass now ... yeah. Cops aren't known as the light of trustworthiness when it comes to recounting an event they've been involved in.

The truth is probably somewhere between both stories. And assuming that - it was not racially motivated, but the officer should not have arrested him.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

WTF
are you guys seriously so braindead that you can't figure this out?
a cop was asked to investigate a possible burglary. he did. during his investigation, gates was uncooperative and belligerent to the cop.
being uncooperative and belligerent to a cop will get you arrested for disorderly conduct every time, regardless of your race.

disorderly conduct is:
recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally
1. engaging in fighting or tumultuous conduct
2. making unreasonable noise and continuing to do so after being asked to stop
3. disrupting a lawful assembly of persons

what is deemed tumultuous and unreasonable is left solely to the discretion of the officer.
now how many of you were there to personally witness the incident? none of you. but you're all quick to cry racism and condemn the decision of the officer. jesus christ stop being so fucking naive about the world. just because a black man was arrested by a white man, it doesnt mean he didnt deserve it. not every black man in cuffs is an injustice.

[Machu505]

My question is how come the neighbors didn't recognize Gates in the first place?

[Jason Tate]

WTF
are you guys seriously so braindead that you can't figure this out?
a cop was asked to investigate a possible burglary. he did. during his investigation, gates was uncooperative and belligerent to the cop.
being uncooperative and belligerent to a cop will get you arrested for disorderly conduct every time, regardless of your race.

disorderly conduct is:
recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally
1. engaging in fighting or tumultuous conduct
2. making unreasonable noise and continuing to do so after being asked to stop
3. disrupting a lawful assembly of persons

what is deemed tumultuous and unreasonable is left solely to the discretion of the officer.
now how many of you were there to personally witness the incident? none of you. but you're all quick to cry racism and condemn the decision of the officer. jesus christ stop being so fucking naive about the world. just because a black man was arrested by a white man, it doesnt mean he didnt deserve it. not every black man in cuffs is an injustice.
Your definition of disorderly conduct does not cover what occurred. And I haven't seen anyone here cry racism. And using the "weren't there to witness the incident" puts the same burden on you ... therefore your conclusions are just as "naive" as the rest.

Furthermore, identification was provided. At that point - the officer should have left the man's property immediately.

[jtsnazzy]

How is it smart to admit he would arrest someone else easier if people are already calling his performance into question? Obviously he used it as a way to make little of the racism but it doesn't exactly cover his ass.

Do you normally arrest people who act similarly to Gates?
Yes, I do it even faster.

[Jason Tate]

How is it smart to admit he would arrest someone else easier if people are already calling his performance into question? Obviously he used it as a way to make little of the racism but it doesn't exactly cover his ass.

Do you normally arrest people who act similarly to Gates?
Yes, I do it even faster.
Not what he said. He didn't say what he would do - he said what an average person would do (and the validity of that I'll leave up to all of you average people).

[jtsnazzy]

Not what he said. He didn't say what he would do - he said what an average person would do (and the validity of that I'll leave up to all of you average people).

It was hypothetical discussion.

[Jason Tate]

It was hypothetical discussion.
Doesn't change who he was talking about .. which was clearly not himself as you stated..

[jtsnazzy]

I'm not really interested in debating this with you. Both people are at fault here.

[INhopewefail]

Was that white person a well known and highly prominent Harvard professor?

I really don't think it should matter. But, it was more of a hypothetical situation. I'm just saying that, more than likely, a successful white man was arrested under similar circumstances. Obviously, neither situation would be right, but I haven't heard both sides of the story. I'm merely playing the devil's advocate.

[jtsnazzy]

Doesn't change who he was talking about .. which was clearly not himself as you stated..

Ah I see what you're saying. I read that wrong.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Your definition of disorderly conduct does not cover what occurred. And I haven't seen anyone here cry racism. And using the "weren't there to witness the incident" puts the same burden on you ... therefore your conclusions are just as "naive" as the rest.

Furthermore, identification was provided. At that point - the officer should have left the man's property immediately.
tumultuous:
1. full of tumult or riotousness; marked by disturbance and uproar
2. raising a great clatter and commotion; disorderly or noisy
3. highly agitated, as the mind or emotions; distraught; turbulent

now you're seriously telling me gates didnt act in a noisy, highly agitated state after being told to stop?

and in regards to your last point, gates initially refused to show identification, and when such identification was finally presented, the officers DID leaves gates' home. gates just followed them out, continuing his tirade.

[GeeBee]

tumultuous:
1. full of tumult or riotousness; marked by disturbance and uproar
2. raising a great clatter and commotion; disorderly or noisy
3. highly agitated, as the mind or emotions; distraught; turbulent

now you're seriously telling me gates didnt act in a noisy, highly agitated state after being told to stop?

and in regards to your last point, gates initially refused to show identification, and when such identification was finally presented, the officers DID leaves gates' home. gates just followed them out, continuing his tirade.

When you're in YOUR OWN HOME, you can act any way you fucking want.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

When you're in YOUR OWN HOME, you can act any way you fucking want.
correct sir, but he was not arrested for disorderly conduct until he continued his actions in public outside when following the officer to his car.
you can take tate's side in disputing official police reports and eyewitness testimony, and conjure up your own uninformed scenario, or you can just admit that gates' WAS acting disorderly despite the warnings, and probably should have been arrested.

[theguilt engine]

Seriously Dom? Apparently not is your answer?? Really? Wow you must be slipping in your old age. You are the one I would expect a filet mignon in the form of an argument. Instead you offer me...the steak offered from IHOP.

Lets look at the facts:

1) The officer is white, Gates is black.
2) Gates and his driver were spotted by someone trying to force his way into his locked door. Person was nervous they were trying to break in and rob the house and called the cops.
3) The officer has a great record. Selected by his black captain to teach a course on racial profiling.
4) The account from the second officer on scene, a black officer, backs what Conley has said.
5) While Conley did overreact, he was driven to said reaction by Gates disregarding what an officer of the law says.
6) Conley did not know Gates, nor did he know Gates lived in the house.

Rational thought from the above information would say that Conley did not profile, nor did he arrest Gates based on his color. Conley had been a stand up officer beforehand and still has the backing of his department. There is a far higher probability that this was not a case of racism, racial profiling, or anything based on race. That aspect was brought up by Gates.

This is a ridiculous argument that has absolutely no ground to stand on in regards to race. The evidence stating Conley's case in my mind far outweighs the case brought up by Gates.
exactly my point.

[GeeBee]

correct sir, but he was not arrested for disorderly conduct until he continued his actions in public outside when following the officer to his car.
you can take tate's side in disputing official police reports and eyewitness testimony, and conjure up your own uninformed scenario, or you can just admit that gates' WAS acting disorderly despite the warnings, and probably should have been arrested.

This story is very simple:

A man got arrested for going into his own home
Said man was understandably upset by it
Given the history of the U.S., said man had reason to believe there was a racial motivation.
Whether motivation was there or not was irrelevant.
Cops could have handled it better than they did.
End of story.

I don't quite see what there is to argue about.

[GeeBee]

exactly my point.

How many times does someone have to say that we're not necessarily arguing racial profiling? Most of the people in this thread are simply saying that Obama was not out of line in expecting that these cops could have handled the situation better. End of story.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

This story is very simple:

A man got arrested for going into his own home
Said man was understandably upset by it
Given the history of the U.S., said man had reason to believe there was a racial motivation.
Whether motivation was there or not was irrelevant.
Cops could have handled it better than they did.
End of story.

I don't quite see what there is to argue about.
rewriting the story i see.
but the story goes more like this:
a man was NOT arrested for going into his own home
a man refused to cooperate with a police investigation
a man became belligerent and caused a public disturbance
a man disregarded police warnings and continued his actions until being arrested
a man deserved what he got
end of story.

[selftitled85]

This story is very simple:

A man got arrested for going into his own home
Said man was understandably upset by it
Given the history of the U.S., said man had reason to believe there was a racial motivation.
Whether motivation was there or not was irrelevant.
Cops could have handled it better than they did.
End of story.

I don't quite see what there is to argue about.

Because you are only using the information for your side. You are missing the fact that the cops were called to the residence of Gates because of a possible break in. Conley has no clue what the person who lives at the residence looks like. Gates would not provide informaton for one reason or another. That is not racism. That is being called to a house and trying to confim or deny a possible break in. The fact that Gates is black is non trivial.

[GeeBee]

Because you are only using the information for your side. You are missing the fact that the cops were called to the residence of Gates because of a possible break in. Conley has no clue what the person who lives at the residence looks like. Gates would not provide informaton for one reason or another. That is not racism. That is being called to a house and trying to confim or deny a possible break in. The fact that Gates is black is non trivial.

I agree. I don't for a moment think this was racially motivated. I'm only saying it's understandable why gates was pissed. And the cops could have been a bit more reasonable than they were.

[selftitled85]

I agree. I don't for a moment think this was racially motivated. I'm only saying it's understandable why gates was pissed. And the cops could have been a bit more reasonable than they were.

I agree. But Gates did not help his cause by acting like a douche. I have already stated I believe Gates should not have been arrested. But it does not mean he acted correctly.

[billyboatkid]

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/08/14/alg_robertdowneyjr.jpg

"feel like the dumbest motha fucka who ever lived?!"

[Jason Tate]

tumultuous:
1. full of tumult or riotousness; marked by disturbance and uproar
2. raising a great clatter and commotion; disorderly or noisy
3. highly agitated, as the mind or emotions; distraught; turbulent

now you're seriously telling me gates didnt act in a noisy, highly agitated state after being told to stop?

and in regards to your last point, gates initially refused to show identification, and when such identification was finally presented, the officers DID leaves gates' home. gates just followed them out, continuing his tirade.
I'm telling you that the actions are not worthy of arrest. Noisy and highly agitated state are any Friday night in any college/high-school city and in this case (after identity was proven) no arrest should have been made.

[Jason Tate]

rewriting the story i see.
but the story goes more like this:
a man was NOT arrested for going into his own home
a man refused to cooperate with a police investigation
a man became belligerent and caused a public disturbance
a man disregarded police warnings and continued his actions until being arrested
a man deserved what he got
end of story.
If a cop ever followed me into my own home - I would be far less civil than Gates.

Endofstory.

[thesafeword]

sounds like you are. it's cool to drive poorly, so you probably should start going out of your way to do stupid things while driving.
Okay, time to stop looking where I'm going.

[J.C.]

I've always been curious as to why it's conservatives(who piss and moan about how overbearing, unchecked, and intervening the power of the government is*) that generally side with law enforcement in situations where they arguably overstep their boundaries and/or abuse authority.

*unless they're in power

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

If a cop ever followed me into my own home - I would be far less civil than Gates.

Endofstory.
yeah god forbid a police officer ever try to protect you and your home from a potential robbery.:rolleyes:

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

I'm telling you that the actions are not worthy of arrest. Noisy and highly agitated state are any Friday night in any college/high-school city and in this case (after identity was proven) no arrest should have been made.
what part of this dont you get? he wasnt arrested for being in the house. he wasnt arrested for his initial uncooperative state. he wasnt arrested for insulting the officers in his home. he was arrested for continuing his tirade in public and causing a public disturbance DESPITE NUMEROUS WARNINGS. everything he did fits the definition of disorderly conduct perfectly.
you're right,what gates did DOES happen every friday in a college town. and guess what? those kids get arrested for disorderly conduct too. when its a college kid, nobody cares. but when its a respected black man, then suddenly the police are 'overstepping their boundaries'.

[theguilt engine]

If a cop ever followed me into my own home - I would be far less civil than Gates.

Endofstory.
Keep in mind the officer thought you were trying to rob someone's home because people around your house didn't even recognize you...as you were looking through windows and trying to figure out how to get into a house.

The officer was not in the mindset that this man was the homeowner, he was in the mindset that the man he was talking to was in the house as a trespasser.

[theguilt engine]

I'm surprised this thread raised so much controversy, didn't expect to see this much ignorance.

[ambulance]

what part of this dont you get? he wasnt arrested for being in the house. he wasnt arrested for his initial uncooperative state. he wasnt arrested for insulting the officers in his home. he was arrested for continuing his tirade in public and causing a public disturbance DESPITE NUMEROUS WARNINGS. everything he did fits the definition of disorderly conduct perfectly.
you're right,what gates did DOES happen every friday in a college town. and guess what? those kids get arrested for disorderly conduct too. when its a college kid, nobody cares. but when its a respected black man, then suddenly the police are 'overstepping their boundaries'.

And you keep missing the point. All the cops had to do was get in their cars and leave. Gates wouldn't be standing outside anymore. That means no warrant for arrest. Its obvious that the cop had become bitter from Gates actions and decided to overstep his boundaries as a police officer. Thats where the problem lies. Not that it was racially motivated or anything of the sort. Merely that he shouldn't have been arrested at all. Also, from the reports I've read, the police officer refused to give his badge number (which seems like a normal occurrence) so why wouldn't Gates follow him outside, continuing to cause a scene.

[Love As Arson]

The problem with any racial discussion is racism is depicted as the overt KKK type of racism and it neglects the insidious and subtle forms that have been effective since the end of the Civil Rights Movement. You do not have to say a black person is a coon to be racist, because you can now justify by saying this particular group is generally dangerous and therefore deserve more scrutiny. In this way, it need not necessarily be a conscious choice at that moment, but the acceptance of norms which are in themselves racist. This brings me to my next point, which is that having a certain progressive ideas means one cannot be racist. I know radical activists, for example, who hold racist ideas insofar as they do not believe any minority group will be able to emancipate themselves; as a result, they play into the benevolent form of white supremacy that believes it is the duty of enlightened whites to take off the chains of repression. That is why the officer's record can be true and it can also be true that he has racist ideas or that his conception of race played a role in his decision-making at the time.
What I find interesting about this debate is the line of argumentation conservatives have made regarding the officer's authority. One might think that a group of people who fear government takeover is the same group that thinks it isn't permissible to be indignant at an authority figure telling them what to do in their own home. Never mind the fact that, if one studies African-American history, one sees that the police were often complicit in upholding racism, which affects every African-American's conception of the police. Just based on the facts alone, it was an abuse of authority which, I would think, conservatives would be against and would seek out a punishment for.

[Love As Arson]

Also, I fear for a society that invests so much authority in a group of armed men, whose actions are to be taken for granted as being for the good of the people.

[perceptrons]

Also, I fear for a society that invests so much authority in a group of armed men, whose actions are to be taken for granted as being for the good of the people.
I don't think people, in general, are so willing to believe all cops actions are for the good of the people. I think it's more that, from the reports coming in, this specific cop seems like a pretty good guy.

[Love As Arson]

I don't think people, in general, are so willing to believe all cops actions are for the good of the people. I think it's more that, from the reports coming in, this specific cop seems like a pretty good guy.
I have to disagree. In any debate where a police officer is accused of wrongdoing, the automatic response is either they were just doing their job or they a bad apple. One example I can think of is in NY, where police officers fired fifty rounds into a car full of unarmed men who had been celebrating a bachelor party. I wonder at what point we stop saying they are just some bad apples and realize we may have to cut down the whole tree.

[perceptrons]

I have to disagree. In any debate where a police officer is accused of wrongdoing, the automatic response is either they were just doing their job or they a bad apple. One example I can think of is in NY, where police officers fired fifty rounds into a car full of unarmed men who had been celebrating a bachelor party. I wonder at what point we stop saying they are just some bad apples and realize we may have to cut down the whole tree.
I guess the peoples general support breaks down like this, in my experience. Cops are usually defended if the suspect goes off, verbally or physically, on the officer and not defended when the officer goes off on the suspect (assuming the other is not returning "fire").

Also, I'd say 99% of the time, most white people will defend a white officer if racism is brought into the interaction at all.

[selftitled85]

I have to disagree. In any debate where a police officer is accused of wrongdoing, the automatic response is either they were just doing their job or they a bad apple. One example I can think of is in NY, where police officers fired fifty rounds into a car full of unarmed men who had been celebrating a bachelor party. I wonder at what point we stop saying they are just some bad apples and realize we may have to cut down the whole tree.

Because you have no idea what you are talking about Dom. As someone who has friends and family who work for the NY police department you have no idea the stuff they deal with. While there are a number of bad apples. Most of the members of the force are good people trying to protect the peace. I have heard you say yourself that you don't believe in a police force (I think it was you.) This naivete is ridiculous. There has to be a police force for a civilization to function. We don't live in a utopian society. People need to stop thinking that type of society will ever come true.

And back on topic...once again you go to an example of egregious wrong doing to prove that what happened had something to do with structural racism. The cases are so far apart that it is not even worth discussing.

[selftitled85]

I guess the peoples general support breaks down like this, in my experience. Cops are usually defended if the suspect goes off, verbally or physically, on the officer and not defended when the officer goes off on the suspect (assuming the other is not returning "fire").

Also, I'd say 99% of the time, most white people will defend a white officer if racism is brought into the interaction at all.

Stop making stupid assumptions.

Edit: Sorry for acting like a dick but saying things like this is retarded. Comparing this case to most cases in regards to racism is impossible. The evidence points to the cop being correct. Did he overreact? Yes he did. But so did Gates. There is a large gray area here...but this is nowhere near being right smack dab in the middle of that area. This is on the fringe.

[theguilt engine]

I've quickly jumped off the Obama bandwagon. I find myself not agreeing with a lot of what he does now.

[ambulance]

Because you have no idea what you are talking about Dom. As someone who has friends and family who work for the NY police department you have no idea the stuff they deal with. While there are a number of bad apples. Most of the members of the force are good people trying to protect the peace. I have heard you say yourself that you don't believe in a police force (I think it was you.) This naivete is ridiculous. There has to be a police force for a civilization to function. We don't live in a utopian society. People need to stop thinking that type of society will ever come true.

And back on topic...once again you go to an example of egregious wrong doing to prove that what happened had something to do with structural racism. The cases are so far apart that it is not even worth discussing.

'Good people,' when they gain authority over others can often overstep their boundaries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment).

[selftitled85]

'Good people,' when they gain authority over others can often overstep their boundaries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment).

Yep. It happens to everyone. Unfortunately the human race is greedy, mean, conniving, and selfish. When given power many of them will resort to illegal methods to stay in power. But that does not mean we need to overhaul the system. Show me one country that lived prosperously without a police force. The fact is that the police needs to have power. You don't give them any power, then you take away their ability to protect laws or save lives or do anything needed in a police force. Therefore you need to take a calculated risk by giving these men badges and guns and tell them they need to keep the peace. Some will unfortunately go bad. But that does not mean most do.

[J.C.]

I've quickly jumped off the Obama bandwagon. I find myself not agreeing with a lot of what he does now.

For defending a personal friend who was so guilty of wrongdoing that their charges were dropped?

[selftitled85]

For defending a personal friend who was so guilty of wrongdoing that their charges were dropped?

Obama deserves scrutinizing for saying something without knowing the full details and then having to take a step back a few days later.

That said Obama has done a rather good job his first six months on the job. If people were expecting change on day 200, well then you should feel really stupid for thinking anything gets done in American politics in a timely fashion.

[perceptrons]

Stop making stupid assumptions.

Edit: Sorry for acting like a dick but saying things like this is retarded. Comparing this case to most cases in regards to racism is impossible. The evidence points to the cop being correct. Did he overreact? Yes he did. But so did Gates. There is a large gray area here...but this is nowhere near being right smack dab in the middle of that area. This is on the fringe.
I wasn't comparing, I was just saying, whenever I hear a story where the suspect called a white cop racist, people generally support the cop. This is especially true when they have little or muddy knowledge of the situation.

[J.C.]

Obama deserves scrutinizing for saying something without knowing the full details and then having to take a step back a few days later.

That said Obama has done a rather good job his first six months on the job. If people were expecting change on day 200, well then you should feel really stupid for thinking anything gets done in American politics in a timely fashion.

I think the basis of him commenting on the case was that he's personal friends with Gates, which is why he acknowledged beforehand that his take would be inherently biased. Most of us would speak out in defense of our friends if this had happened to one of them. You brought up the fact that you're friends with people in law enforcement as a means of defending the Cambridge officer.

Obama didn't make a comment about race pertaining to the incident and didn't question whether law enforcement had a right to approach Gates. He said he thought it was stupid to arrest him and haul him off to jail after he had proven it was his home. I agree with that. This wasn't an incident in progress that the police were attending to, this was an incident ultimately intiated by the cops. For that reason, I think it'd require a hell of a lot more than what I've heard to rationalize an arrest.

I wouldn't say Obama's done a good job. In certain areas he has, but he has lacked in others. He gets an Incomplete as of now.

[Love As Arson]

Because you have no idea what you are talking about Dom. As someone who has friends and family who work for the NY police department you have no idea the stuff they deal with.
No, I am just subject to what they do. And I am not referring to your friends in particular, but police officers who probably have friends that say the exact same thing.
While there are a number of bad apples. Most of the members of the force are good people trying to protect the peace..
Good people can do bad things, to put it simplistically. Entering into an institution that is fundamentally repressive will have an affect on how one deals with the public.


I have heard you say yourself that you don't believe in a police force (I think it was you.)
Yes, I am of that opinion.

There has to be a police force for a civilization to function.
There has to be individuals that protect communities. This is different from saying there has to be a police force.

We don't live in a utopian society.
What is more Utopian: The belief that there should be a democratically controlled group of people who police their own community or the idea that this group, given tremendous power and protected by a legal system, isn't dysfunctional and that abuse isn't endemic to an institution whose power cannot be controlled by the community?

People need to stop thinking that type of society will ever come true.
I am sure many people said similar things about progressive ideas that are now mainstream.


And back on topic...once again you go to an example of egregious wrong doing to prove that what happened had something to do with structural racism. The cases are so far apart that it is not even worth discussing.
You just are unable to see how structural racism affected the situation, either in Gates' reaction or the cop's decision. What's more, these events inform one another insofar as the allowance of one instance of abuse permits abuse in other situations; it says that they are not a part of society, but stand above it and therefore can do as they wish, with further justification in those who say "they are just trying to serve and protect".

[theguilt engine]

For defending a personal friend who was so guilty of wrongdoing that their charges were dropped?
Yeah, and a lot of things.

[theguilt engine]

No, I am just subject to what they do. And I am not referring to your friends in particular, but police officers who probably have friends that say the exact same thing.

Good people can do bad things, to put it simplistically. Entering into an institution that is fundamentally repressive will have an affect on how one deals with the public.



Yes, I am of that opinion.


There has to be individuals that protect communities. This is different from saying there has to be a police force.


What is more Utopian: The belief that there should be a democratically controlled group of people who police their own community or the idea that this group, given tremendous power and protected by a legal system, isn't dysfunctional and that abuse isn't endemic to an institution whose power cannot be controlled by the community?


I am sure many people said similar things about progressive ideas that are now mainstream.


You just are unable to see how structural racism affected the situation, either in Gates' reaction or the cop's decision. What's more, these events inform one another insofar as the allowance of one instance of abuse permits abuse in other situations; it says that they are not a part of society, but stand above it and therefore can do as they wish, with further justification in those who say "they are just trying to serve and protect".
thanks, jason tate.

[Love As Arson]

Stop making stupid assumptions.

Edit: Sorry for acting like a dick but saying things like this is retarded. Comparing this case to most cases in regards to racism is impossible. The evidence points to the cop being correct. Did he overreact? Yes he did. But so did Gates. There is a large gray area here...but this is nowhere near being right smack dab in the middle of that area. This is on the fringe.
Gates' overreaction was more just. I can accept it, because I recognize the history behind it. I do not think the cop overreacted, but that it is simply a manifestation of what his institution is known to do.

[Love As Arson]

thanks, jason tate.
I originated that style, son.

[ambulance]

Yep. It happens to everyone. Unfortunately the human race is greedy, mean, conniving, and selfish. When given power many of them will resort to illegal methods to stay in power. But that does not mean we need to overhaul the system. Show me one country that lived prosperously without a police force. The fact is that the police needs to have power. You don't give them any power, then you take away their ability to protect laws or save lives or do anything needed in a police force. Therefore you need to take a calculated risk by giving these men badges and guns and tell them they need to keep the peace. Some will unfortunately go bad. But that does not mean most do.

Oh, by no means do I think the system should be abolished completely. I just think they system in its current state allows police to be overly authoritarian and often without any consequences. It seems like I share a lot of the same feelings as Love As Arson.

[saysmydoctor]

thanks, jason tate.
Interesting counterargument.

[Roboman]

I am definitely not convinced that this guy is the subject of racial profiling, and I know Obama is friends with him, but as the president of the United States, I think not calling the police officers' actions "stupid" would have been the more prudent course of action. I certainly acknowledge that racism can influence people's actions (even those of police officers), but I also think it's possible for racism to be used as a scapegoat by minorities.

[perceptrons]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Obama say that the whole situation was stupid and should have been handled better? Not that the cop was stupid?

[OveriseFan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Obama say that the whole situation was stupid and should have been handled better? Not that the cop was stupid?

"I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home."

Nope.

[perceptrons]

"I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home."

Nope.
Ah OK, I wasn't sure since I had only read a paraphrased version from some story about it.

Dumb comment.

John Stewart on it. (http://www.indecisionforever.com/2009/07/24/jon-stewart-obama-answered-gates-question-stupidly/)

[jawstheme]

The cop is a prick, but I'm not so sure this is a race issue. Every time a black guy gets wrongfully arrested maybe we should start focusing on the wrongful arrest, rather than the race. That way we don't divide people and can focus on the real issues, like the fact that police abuse their power far too often.

[Love As Arson]

"I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry; number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home."

Nope.
God forbid you call a police officers actions stupid.j

but I also think it's possible for racism to be used as a scapegoat by minorities.
Because that has worked so well.

[saysmydoctor]

I think what's funny is how the closet racists tried to make it seem as if Obama made this a race issue when his remarks specifically said that "any of us would be pretty angry"--Obama made it a performance issue, not a race issue.

[jawstheme]

Maybe if Crash wasn't such a shitty movie I could see the subtle racism better.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

the way i see it, the police followed through on a call and did their job well. they were there to protect mr. gates, to insure his safety and his property. there was absolutely no reason for gates to act the way he did, and repeated attempts to calm him down and resolve the situation failed. he created the disturbance, it was his continued unreasonable response that led to his arrest. i feel no sympathy for him.
does racial profiling exist? of course it does. nobody is saying it doesn't. but that is irrelevant to this case. the police did not see a black man and simply assume he was breaking in. they were investigating a report of a break-in, and found a man matching the description inside the house. this wasn't abuse of power. far from it.

here's an experiment. go down to the local donut shop and start yelling at all the cops. call them names, threaten them...see how long it takes before you get arrested for disorderly conduct. and guess what? you'd deserve it.

[OveriseFan]

God forbid you call a police officers actions stupid.j


Because that has worked so well.

I think what's funny is how the closet racists tried to make it seem as if Obama made this a race issue when his remarks specifically said that "any of us would be pretty angry"--Obama made it a performance issue, not a race issue.

I made no comment about his statement; I only stated that the poster was wrong in saying that he didn't call the police's actions "stupid".

No need to get all uptight about it.

[jawstheme]

the way i see it, the police followed through on a call and did their job well. they were there to protect mr. gates, to insure his safety and his property. there was absolutely no reason for gates to act the way he did, and repeated attempts to calm him down and resolve the situation failed. he created the disturbance, it was his continued unreasonable response that led to his arrest. i feel no sympathy for him.
does racial profiling exist? of course it does. nobody is saying it doesn't. but that is irrelevant to this case. the police did not see a black man and simply assume he was breaking in. they were investigating a report of a break-in, and found a man matching the description inside the house. this wasn't abuse of power. far from it.

here's an experiment. go down to the local donut shop and start yelling at all the cops. call them names, threaten them...see how long it takes before you get arrested for disorderly conduct. and guess what? you'd deserve it.

But he showed the cop his ID, and the cop had to of known it was his house. And how is your experiment relevant to the article? Gates wasn't yelling at anybody, he was just at his house.

[OveriseFan]

But he showed the cop his ID, and the cop had to of known it was his house. And how is your experiment relevant to the article? Gates wasn't yelling at anybody, he was just at his house.

How about doing a little research? Whether you agree with the policeman's actions or not after that is your call, but you need to at least read up on the situation.

[saysmydoctor]

There is no situation. He was at his house, he presented identification, he was pissed at a cop understandably, Crowley should have apologized profusely, allowing Gates to vent (even if Gates was just being a jackass, his frustration is understandable) and gone back to the barracks. Catastrophe averted. The cop escalated it by arresting him.

If you can find me the statute is US or Massachusetts' statute that states one has to be respectful (not cooperative, respectful) to a cop, please, that would be nice.

[jawstheme]

How about doing a little research? Whether you agree with the policeman's actions or not after that is your call, but you need to at least read up on the situation.

I was responding to the Duncan Donuts scenario, he didn't just go out and yell at a bunch of cops. I don't agree with the policeman's actions, but I also don't agree with Gates' actions, making it a race issue right off the bat.

edit: why I responded to such a stupid hypothetical scenario in the first place I have no idea.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

But he showed the cop his ID, and the cop had to of known it was his house. And how is your experiment relevant to the article? Gates wasn't yelling at anybody, he was just at his house.
read the full report.
gates initially refused to provide ID, threatened the officers, yelling insults (even throwing in a 'yo mama' remark. from a harvard scholar?)
after finally showing identification, the cops then left the house. gates followed them out into the street and continued his belligerent yelling and insults, and started attracting a crowd. the cops repeatedly warned him and tried to get him to return to his house and he refused to stop. this has been completely confirmed by eyewitness accounts, and gates himself doesnt even dispute the report.

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arre st.PDF

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

There is no situation. He was at his house, he presented identification, he was pissed at a cop understandably, Crowley should have apologized profusely, allowing Gates to vent (even if Gates was just being a jackass, his frustration is understandable) and gone back to the barracks. Catastrophe averted. The cop escalated it by arresting him.

If you can find me the statute is US or Massachusetts' statute that states one has to be respectful (not cooperative, respectful) to a cop, please, that would be nice.
again, he wasn't arrested for being disrespectful. he was arrested for causing and continuing a public disturbance after repeated warnings. and that is an arrestable offence.

[ambulance]

the way i see it, the police followed through on a call and did their job well. they were there to protect mr. gates, to insure his safety and his property. there was absolutely no reason for gates to act the way he did, and repeated attempts to calm him down and resolve the situation failed. he created the disturbance, it was his continued unreasonable response that led to his arrest. i feel no sympathy for him.
does racial profiling exist? of course it does. nobody is saying it doesn't. but that is irrelevant to this case. the police did not see a black man and simply assume he was breaking in. they were investigating a report of a break-in, and found a man matching the description inside the house. this wasn't abuse of power. far from it.

here's an experiment. go down to the local donut shop and start yelling at all the cops. call them names, threaten them...see how long it takes before you get arrested for disorderly conduct. and guess what? you'd deserve it.

You people keep missing the point. Gates was in his OWN HOME, had PROVIDED ID ALREADY, at which point the police should have just left regardless if hecontinued to cause a disturbance. If the police left, he wouldn't have stood on his porch continuing to yell at cops because...there would be no cops. Also most of the people in this thread do not believe it was a case of racial profiling but a cop abusing his authority and IMO being bitter at a man accusing him of being racist.

And your 'experiment' is in no way relevant to what happened.

[saysmydoctor]

again, he wasn't arrested for being disrespectful. he was arrested for causing and continuing a public disturbance after repeated warnings. and that is an arrestable offence.
Again, there was no public disturbance, considering he was in his private residence.

[jawstheme]

read the full report.
gates initially refused to provide ID, threatened the officers, yelling insults (even throwing in a 'yo mama' remark. from a harvard scholar?)
after finally showing identification, the cops then left the house. gates followed them out into the street and continued his belligerent yelling and insults, and started attracting a crowd. the cops repeatedly warned him and tried to get him to return to his house and he refused to stop. this has been completely confirmed by eyewitness accounts, and gates himself doesnt even dispute the report.

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arre st.PDF

He didn't follow them into the street though, it even says that the cop arrested Gates on his porch. I doubt he ran back on his porch if has trouble walking without a cane. Gates was acting like an idiot, but he was doing so at his own house. The cops should have just left.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Again, there was no public disturbance, considering he was in his private residence.
he wasnt arrested inside his residence. fucking read the report. get your facts straight. the man got what he deserved.

[fightinirish217]

read the full report.
gates initially refused to provide ID, threatened the officers, yelling insults (even throwing in a 'yo mama' remark. from a harvard scholar?)
after finally showing identification, the cops then left the house. gates followed them out into the street and continued his belligerent yelling and insults, and started attracting a crowd. the cops repeatedly warned him and tried to get him to return to his house and he refused to stop. this has been completely confirmed by eyewitness accounts, and gates himself doesnt even dispute the report.

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arre st.PDF

Thank you for that, now everyone can actually read the facts before jumping the gun on everything. It's incredible how quick people are (including our own President) to think they know the real story, then comment and pass judgment without actually knowing the true details first.

[saysmydoctor]

The real antithesis to any arguments supporting the police is just how fast the charges were dropped

[saysmydoctor]

he wasnt arrested inside his residence. fucking read the report. get your facts straight. the man got what he deserved.
His porch is a part of his private residence, he was arrested on his porch.

[Love As Arson]

read the full report.
gates initially refused to provide ID, threatened the officers, yelling insults (even throwing in a 'yo mama' remark. from a harvard scholar?)
after finally showing identification, the cops then left the house. gates followed them out into the street and continued his belligerent yelling and insults, and started attracting a crowd. the cops repeatedly warned him and tried to get him to return to his house and he refused to stop. this has been completely confirmed by eyewitness accounts, and gates himself doesnt even dispute the report.
Is it belligerent if you are justified? And why didn't the police officer apologize for the intrusion? I was under the impression that the police were paid through tax dollars and one should be allowed to be critical, even in public.

[saysmydoctor]

Also, considering the police report is composed by the arresting officer himself, of course it's a completely unbiased document.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

what i basicly want is this:
admit that race played no part in the officers actions. that should be clear from all the accounts of what happened.
maybe you feel police protocol should be changed, thats fine. i can understand that. but these men did nothing outside what they've been trained to do. they did not overreact. they did not abuse their power. they did everything by the book the way it should have been handled by their established protocol.
maybe the protocol needs changed, but these men did nothing wrong.

[OveriseFan]

There is no situation. He was at his house, he presented identification, he was pissed at a cop understandably, Crowley should have apologized profusely, allowing Gates to vent (even if Gates was just being a jackass, his frustration is understandable) and gone back to the barracks. Catastrophe averted. The cop escalated it by arresting him.

If you can find me the statute is US or Massachusetts' statute that states one has to be respectful (not cooperative, respectful) to a cop, please, that would be nice.

It's no about being "respectful"; it's about not being a public disturbance - which he was. Was it to teach him a lesson, maybe? Yeah, it was. But it was still a lawful arrest.

read the full report.
gates initially refused to provide ID, threatened the officers, yelling insults (even throwing in a 'yo mama' remark. from a harvard scholar?)
after finally showing identification, the cops then left the house. gates followed them out into the street and continued his belligerent yelling and insults, and started attracting a crowd. the cops repeatedly warned him and tried to get him to return to his house and he refused to stop. this has been completely confirmed by eyewitness accounts, and gates himself doesnt even dispute the report.

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arre st.PDF

again, he wasn't arrested for being disrespectful. he was arrested for causing and continuing a public disturbance after repeated warnings. and that is an arrestable offence.

[jawstheme]

what i basicly want is this:
admit that race played no part in the officers actions. that should be clear from all the accounts of what happened.
maybe you feel police protocol should be changed, thats fine. i can understand that. but these men did nothing outside what they've been trained to do. they did not overreact. they did not abuse their power. they did everything by the book the way it should have been handled by their established protocol.
maybe the protocol needs changed, but these men did nothing wrong.

They could have left. Why can't you admit that? Was anyone really in any danger?

[saysmydoctor]

He wasn't being a public disturbance. It was not a lawful arrest. Like I said, the antithesis to any such claims is that the charges were dropped faster than one can blink their eye.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

His porch is a part of his private residence, he was arrested on his porch.
fine. you stand on your porch and yell insults at anybody going past. and by all means, if a cop comes, make sure you insult and threaten him too.
Is it belligerent if you are justified? And why didn't the police officer apologize for the intrusion? I was under the impression that the police were paid through tax dollars and one should be allowed to be critical, even in public.
what did the officer do to 'justify' gates response? he was providing gates and his property security from possible burglary. to me, that doesnt justify belligerence.

Also, considering the police report is composed by the arresting officer himself, of course it's a completely unbiased document.
nevermind that all witnesses have corroborated the story. apparently the cambridge department might release the tapes of the incident. hopefully that confirms it for you. but i suppose you'll say they were edited.

[saysmydoctor]

Police officers corroborating with other officers to protect them has NEVER happened in the history of police forces.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

They could have left. Why can't you admit that? Was anyone really in any danger?
yes they could have left, and thats what they were doing. but gates followed them out into the public as they were leaving. could they have left it at that? of course. they could have ignored gates' conduct. but it doesnt change the fact that gates WAS being disorderly and he WAS deserving of his arrest. blatantly disregard police warnings and continue causing a disturbance, and a police officer should not and will not ignore it and drive away, no matter who you are.

and saysmydoctor, really? you seriously think dropping a misdemeanor charge against a respected scholar after recieving unwarranted national outcry means that he was innocent?

[Love As Arson]

what did the officer do to 'justify' gates response? he was providing gates and his property security from possible burglary. to me, that doesnt justify belligerence
I would be upset if someone treated me like a criminal in my own home/community.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Police officers corroborating with other officers to protect them has NEVER happened in the history of police forces.
...along with the civilians that witnessed the incident.

but since you brought up the subject, how many people corroborate YOUR version of the story?

[Love As Arson]

yes they could have left, and thats what they were doing. but gates followed them out into the public as they were leaving. could they have left it at that? of course. they could have ignored gates' conduct. but it doesnt change the fact that gates WAS being disorderly and he WAS deserving of his arrest. blatantly disregard police warnings and continue causing a disturbance, and a police officer should not and will not ignore it and drive away, no matter who you are.
Part of the disorderly conduct is exhibiting annoying behaviour, which is what Gates was arrested before. If that is the case, Glenn Beck could be arrested.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

I would be upset if someone treated me like a criminal in my own home/community.
you could be the most intelligent idiot i've ever encountered. its a shame.

this entire scenario of injustice you've conjured sounds awful. its a relief that it didn't happen. gates wasn't treated like a criminal. end of story. thanks for playing.

[Love As Arson]

Also, I think it is permissible to attract the attention of public to police improprieties.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Also, I think it is permissible to attract the attention of public to police improprieties.
yeah it sure was inappropriate of them to investigate a robbery. you got me there.

[jawstheme]

yes they could have left, and thats what they were doing. but gates followed them out into the public as they were leaving. could they have left it at that? of course. they could have ignored gates' conduct. but it doesnt change the fact that gates WAS being disorderly and he WAS deserving of his arrest. blatantly disregard police warnings and continue causing a disturbance, and a police officer should not and will not ignore it and drive away, no matter who you are.

and saysmydoctor, really? you seriously think dropping a misdemeanor charge against a respected scholar after recieving unwarranted national outcry means that he was innocent?

He did not follow them out in public, he was on his porch! He was no danger to the public. If the cops would have left there would have been no further situation. Instead it turns into a fucking media circus. Do you really think this whole thing is worth this unnecessary attention? Gates was being a jackass, but he was no threat to anyone.

[ambulance]

yes they could have left, and thats what they were doing. but gates followed them out into the public as they were leaving. could they have left it at that? of course. they could have ignored gates' conduct. but it doesnt change the fact that gates WAS being disorderly and he WAS deserving of his arrest. blatantly disregard police warnings and continue causing a disturbance, and a police officer should not and will not ignore it and drive away, no matter who you are.

and saysmydoctor, really? you seriously think dropping a misdemeanor charge against a respected scholar after recieving unwarranted national outcry means that he was innocent?

It wasn't into the public, it was on his fucking private property. How was he deserving of his arrest. WHAT DID HE DO THAT WARRANTED AN ARREST? This whole situation would have been avoided if the police would have just apologized, gave out badge numbers, and left. Gates had all the right to be upset, while the reasoning behind him being upset might be a little off, he still had the right to be upset.