Untitled

[TK]

I'll portion and parcel up
All those stoical actions
That we as kids all partook in
And try my best to dry off my skin
Before the undertow we created
Drags me back in again.
And we will recite
A list of all those broken lines,
All the notes we missed
When trying to sing our lies.
Those bipolar decibels, out of tune
pitches, and far too casual
inappropriate tones,
but still, we insist on
Humming this song wherever we go.
Even up to our knees in swallowing
water, without a paddle and only our arms,
We're still humming this tune along
Even to the fact that we have no choices
Left except to accept we must abandon everything
And try and swim ourselves to shore.
And I know we might get separated and
Lose each other to the different sides of the swamp.
Because I've known you've been riveted
With the places you are, while I've
Been feeling displacent with where I'm not.
So if the distances pulls away,
And I become too afraid to cross
Out of fears of growing rigid in the mud, or
Losing my will to swim and drowning, well darling,
You'll be lost forever instead of just for now.
But these are our options, so let us weigh
The consequences and rewards of each action that we take.
Either we stay here or one of us goes there
Or we can be resigned to live on these two separate sides
But we cannot, and I will not, try to do a little bit of each

[The Personist]

Even though I fucking hate you and am so much better than you in every way, I will read this if you quote me and remind me.

lol. I still think our fake fight in the Brand New thread was one of the greatest WTF moments ever. People took us seriously!

[TK]

Even though I fucking hate you and am so much better than you in every way, I will read this if you quote me and remind me.

lol. I still think our fake fight in the Brand New thread was one of the greatest WTF moments ever. People took us seriously!

Wow, I admit, this post surprised me a lot. It's just a miracle you can somehow hit the keyboard and form words and sentences, but now you're telling me you can read? Wow.

Lol, that was great. It's a shame it was over so fast.

[The Personist]

I'll divvy up all those stoical actions
That we as kids all partook in
And try my best to dry off my skin
Before the undertow we created
Drags me back in again.
"Stoical" doesn't strike me as a very poetic word, per se, and it seems to disrupt your flow, as does "partook." Similarly, "divvy" is more of a slang term than anything else, and I'm not sure if it fits the tone or the style of your poem. The whole idea of being dragged back in by the undertow, to me, comes off as somewhat cliche, so you might want to rework that.

And we will recite
A list of all those broken lines,
All the notes we missed
When trying to sing our lies.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Nothing is blatantly bad, but it feels very flat (ha, get it, missing notes, flat? I slay me.) I would suggest trying to liven it up a bit more. Make it jump off the page at me more.

Those bipolar decibels, out of tune
pitches, and far too casual
inappropriate tones,
but still, we insist on
Humming this song wherever we go.
"Inappropriate" seemed disruptive of the flow you had going on in this stanza. Grammatically, this is a sentence fragment, but seems to be so without it serving any real purpose. I like that you're carrying the musical imagery through, but I think you should try to make it more musical sonically. The first three lines of this should sing the way the narrator is talking about singing; instead, they just tell me what's going on in a vaguely poetic sort of way. Since you're writing about sound, you should write WITH it, too, if that makes sense. It would enhance the piece overall and add another level to it.

Even up to our knees in swallowing
water, without a paddle and only our arms,
We're still humming this tune along
Even to the fact that we have no choices
Left except to accept we must abandon everything
And try and swim ourselves to shore.
I'm torn about this bit. Here you reintroduce the water stuff from the beginning, and I guess it and the singing should be playing off one another; however, instead of creating an interesting tension, I feel like the water imagery has drowned out the sound. The next to last line's "except to accept" bit feels like something Pete Wentz might write, so you should probably look at that again and rework it. I wonder if you could have the narrator and the other person SING themselves to shore instead of swim; however, you're the poet, not I, so that's entirely your call.

And I know we might get separated and
Lose each other to the different sides of the swamp.
Because I've known you've been riveted
With the places you are, while I've
Been feeling displacent with where I'm not.
"Displacent" isn't a word, I don't think. What do you mean by it; discontent? Unhappy? I don't like this bit because "swamp" sort of undermined teh swimming done above for me. I picture a swamp as less something you swim in and more something you slog through. I also don't think you give it enough treatment poetically to make it a vibrant, vivid comparison to anything in here. The whole "we got separated" bit here doesn't really strike me too much.

So if the distances pulls away,
And I become too afraid to cross
Out of fears of growing rigid in the mud, or
Losing my will to swim and drowning, well darling,
You'll be lost forever instead of just for now.
I'm not sure if this fits with the rest of the piece. It seems to have a certain confidence (embodied in the last two lines in particular, starting with "well darling") that the rest of the piece has lacked, and I think it goes AGAINST your overall theme/tone of uncertainty.

But these are our options, so let us weigh
The consequences and rewards of each action that we take.
This reminded me of "Prufrock" for some reason. I think the second line should be closer in syllabic count to the first line so that this is more rhythmic and flowing.

Either we stay here or one of us goes there
Or we can be resigned to live on these two separate sides
But we cannot, and I will not, try to do a little bit of each.
I think you should have ended with the couplet before this bit. This feels tacked on and unnecessary, whereas the couplet had more a sense of resolution and closure as far as the piece is concerned.

You have a good start, though I'd like to make a general note. I divided this up by sentences; every time there was a period, I made a break so I could comment. Not only did this stanzifying (awesome word, hope it's real) work out, but it also demonstrated that every sentence ended at the end of a line, and every sentence introduced new images and ideas. Now, that's not a bad thing, but I think you should try to deviate from this structure a bit. Ending a sentence at the end of a line is a significant thing to do, and ending a sentence in the middle of a line and starting a new sentence in that same line is as well. I think your grammatical structure inhibited the writing to a degree. Every new sentence was a new idea, and the ideas themselves, since the ended sentences were ends of lines, were separate. Try to tie your ideas together and experiment with enjambment more, because I think if you take the ideas you have and play them off each other and allow them to mingle more, you will be able to create something with more inherent tension, which will automatically make this more compelling. Like I said, you have a good start, but I think there are some things you can address that can do a lot not just for the poem, but for your poetry in general.

(The grammar/sentence comment may not be something you can address in revising this, which I understand; however, I would say it's something to consider when writing in the future.)

[OveriseFan]

Stopped reading after the first line: "I'll divvy up all..."? Come on. Look, I'm all for us inspiring eachother around here, but if people keep ripping off other's lines directly, it's not fair. Normal people can't tell that you're paying homage to someone on a message board, and so I'd recommend not doing it. This isn't just you - others have done it.

My point is, it's fine to make an allusion like that to some band who's "established", but to do it with someone who is on the same level as you, really, in terms of how well they're known is unfair to both them and yourself. Come up with original ideas. If that line inspired you, fine, but when you're done, go and change it.

This forum isn't meant to be a garbage dump for people to pick up ideas at will to use in their own writing.

[The Personist]

Stopped reading after the first line: "I'll divvy up all..."? Come on. Look, I'm all for us inspiring eachother around here, but if people keep ripping off other's lines directly, it's not fair. Normal people can't tell that you're paying homage to someone on a message board, and so I'd recommend not doing it. This isn't just you - others have done it.

My point is, it's fine to make an allusion like that to some band who's "established", but to do it with someone who is on the same level as you, really, in terms of how well they're known is unfair to both them and yourself. Come up with original ideas. If that line inspired you, fine, but when you're done, go and change it.

This forum isn't meant to be a garbage dump for people to pick up ideas at will to use in their own writing.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. You can allude to whomever you so choose. There isn't a benchmark for success that makes it more or less acceptable. Writers draw inspiration from everywhere, including their peers. As for the "normal people can't tell" bit...Tell that to Eliot. "The Waste Land" is over the heads of "normal people" without the footnotes, and even with them the piece is steeped in the material of others and allusions thereto. I'm fairly certain Travis would be forthcoming about where he got that line, too, so it's not like he's passing it off for his own. Furthermore, the expression itself is fairly common, so who's to say he even MEANT to allude to that? I mean, given the evidence, I can see how you would link it back to Matt's piece; however, you're overreacting. If he copied large parts of someone else's work, that would be one thing. One line is not plagiarism, and it is unfair of you to accuse him of "ripping off" someone else when it goes on all the time in the poetry and music worlds. It's like me getting on your back for using a chord progression I've heard before in a song.

[OveriseFan]

Well, you and I disagree. I think it's wrong. I think it's very, very wrong, actually. I get disgusted when people "steal" lines from others on here - it makes me actually wary of posting anything.

[The Personist]

Well, you and I disagree. I think it's wrong. I think it's very, very wrong, actually. I get disgusted when people "steal" lines from others on here - it makes me actually wary of posting anything.

Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.

:shrug: It's not even a whole line. It's the first half of it, so the more creative bit (since "divvy up" is a pretty common expression) was left untouched. You can't even say he stole intellectual property because that expression isn't exactly a Matt Rawlings trademark.

[OveriseFan]

It's about the principle of it. It's not about Travis and Matt Rawlings. I've seen it happen a lot around here in the past.

...and for the record, I stopped reading after that line. So I don't know if there's more, but I refuse to read the rest of it. "Divvy up" is certainly not Rawlings' alone, but when he uses it in a small community like this, receives praise, and then someone else uses it? I don't support that. And "divvy up" is an English expression, is it not? I doubt Travis has ever said it in his life, to be honest. I just don't think this is something that should be encouraged. It's happened twice now in the past week, and I've seen it happen plenty in the past. It should be addressed. We can disagree, it's fine, but I don't want it to go ignored.

[as_we_learn]

It's about the principle of it. It's not about Travis and Matt Rawlings. I've seen it happen a lot around here in the past.

...and for the record, I stopped reading after that line. So I don't know if there's more, but I refuse to read the rest of it. "Divvy up" is certainly not Rawlings' alone, but when he uses it in a small community like this, receives praise, and then someone else uses it? I don't support that. And "divvy up" is an English expression, is it not? I doubt Travis has ever said it in his life, to be honest. I just don't think this is something that should be encouraged. It's happened twice now in the past week, and I've seen it happen plenty in the past. It should be addressed. We can disagree, it's fine, but I don't want it to go ignored.
I am sorry for ripping your line that one time, although I used it in a completely different context, it was still wrong of me. My bad James.

[OveriseFan]

I'm not trying to criticize anyone or call anyone out specifically - it's just something that bothers me about the internet. I highly doubt you'd go to an open mic, listen to someone sing a song, and then open whatever song you choose to sing with a line taken from theirs! So why is it different on the internet? Have integrity. I know it happens sometimes, and if it does, then admit it and move on. And I'm sure David, you'll say that it's fine if the person takes the line... and please don't quote Eliot, as I feel it's a totally different situation.

And J.R., I'd love to hear how it was in a completely different context. Like I said - it's not about that. And its' not about Travis. It's just about principle. You don't need to defend yourself; I'm not offended that you took a line or anything.

It used to happen more when the forum was busier, too.

[as_we_learn]

I'm not trying to criticize anyone or call anyone out specifically - it's just something that bothers me about the internet. I highly doubt you'd go to an open mic, listen to someone sing a song, and then open whatever song you choose to sing with a line taken from theirs! So why is it different on the internet? Have integrity. I know it happens sometimes, and if it does, then admit it and move on. And I'm sure David, you'll say that it's fine if the person takes the line... and please don't quote Eliot, as I feel it's a totally different situation.

And J.R., I'd love to hear how it was in a completely different context. Like I said - it's not about that. And its' not about Travis. It's just about principle. You don't need to defend yourself; I'm not offended that you took a line or anything.

It used to happen more when the forum was busier, too.

You're piece was in the idea of being in love with someone and how you've lost a lot of those of whom you loved. Looking at the piece as whole, it's a song about longing for someone.

My piece was a different idea altogether, since I was simply alluding to the fact that I have seen these "towers ignited" and how the love of a kid (considering I was 9 or 8 at the time) in my position and age seems to be silenced by such things. And how tragedies such as those are the only things that actually bring people together.

[The Personist]

I'm not trying to criticize anyone or call anyone out specifically - it's just something that bothers me about the internet. I highly doubt you'd go to an open mic, listen to someone sing a song, and then open whatever song you choose to sing with a line taken from theirs! So why is it different on the internet? Have integrity. I know it happens sometimes, and if it does, then admit it and move on. And I'm sure David, you'll say that it's fine if the person takes the line... and please don't quote Eliot, as I feel it's a totally different situation.

And J.R., I'd love to hear how it was in a completely different context. Like I said - it's not about that. And its' not about Travis. It's just about principle. You don't need to defend yourself; I'm not offended that you took a line or anything.

It used to happen more when the forum was busier, too.

But it IS different. If someone took something as idiosyncratic as the first line of the last piece I posted here, I would be angry without a citation because it IS an original creative idea. "Divvying up" is not Matt's creation.

There is a kind of poem (blanking on the name right now) that consists of taking word-for-word sections from others work and arranging them in your own way. Kevin wrote one awhile back, though the title eludes me. But he also told us whose book all the stuff was from (as is customary). It's not intellectual theft if you don't pretend the ideas are your own. In this case, using a common expression that Matt may have reminded him of seems benign.

Plagiarism is misrepresentation of another's ideas as your own. By your definition, James, it seems a cliche would constitute plagiarism.

[TK]

I had no intention whatsoever to steal the line from Matt. I admit I have listened to Matt's last song "I'm No Captain" mutiple times, and the song just reminded me of the verb "Divvy" when I was writing. I didn't see any harm in reusing another verb, but perhaps I am in the wrong. I apologize for any offense I cause and will delete this thread after I get off work. I was not intending to plagiarize and hope you do not see me as the kind of person who does.

[The Personist]

Don't delete the thread. That would be stupid.

[Ryzenfall]

Don't delete, I was actually planning on getting back to you on this.

[OveriseFan]

I've said multiple times - it's not about this situation in particular; just a general statement. Stop making it about Travis and Matt and address the real issue.

[The Personist]

Posting it in his thread made it about him, James.

[TK]

Don't delete the thread. That would be stupid.

Don't delete, I was actually planning on getting back to you on this.

I'll leave it up. The first line is changed to avoid further "controversy".

I've said multiple times - it's not about this situation in particular; just a general statement. Stop making it about Travis and Matt and address the real issue.

So, I've thought about it while I was at work and have really wanted to ask you, do you think I stole the line solely because of the verb/phrase "divvy up" ? I haven't seen an issue with plagiarism in this forum, although, I don't read too many pieces any more.

[OveriseFan]

No, it's because the original line was "I'll divvy up all" which is exactly how Matt said it. And his, while not starting the piece, did start a new "section" of the song.

As I said - it's not about you. Stop. I don't want to discuss this anymore. You guys are making me feel like a huge dick.

[The Personist]

Well, in fairness, the thing you said originally was pretty over-the-top and an unnecessary accusation. I don't think you're a dick, but you DEFINITELY overreacted. If you have a concern, take it up with Travis privately...and over something that's not as ubiquitous as this, a common turn of phrase.

[OveriseFan]

Posting it in his thread made it about him, James.

Well, in fairness, the thing you said originally was pretty over-the-top and an unnecessary accusation. I don't think you're a dick, but you DEFINITELY overreacted. If you have a concern, take it up with Travis privately...and over something that's not as ubiquitous as this, a common turn of phrase.

http://students.imsa.edu/~rainman3/elmo.jpg

[fishingthe_sky]

I'll portion and parcel up
All those stoical actions
That we as kids all partook in
And try my best to dry off my skin
Before the undertow we created
Drags me back in again.
I saw the whole "divvy up" issue (which I'll address later), but I think the sounds in "portion and parcel" work better anyway. I think "stoic actions" sounds a whole lot better than "stocial," which I think is a word that is much like "ironical," meaning it's technically correct, but sounds far worse than the succinct "ironic." "Dry off my skin" has a lot of implicit meaning, and I like it. I want to get rid of the "again" to play on the rhyme of "in" but at the same time I'm sort of off put by the 3 rhymes in these early lines. Your call, but it's something to consider.

And we will recite
A list of all those broken lines,
All the notes we missed
When trying to sing our lies.
Those bipolar decibels, out of tune
pitches, and far too casual
inappropriate tones,
but still, we insist on
Humming this song wherever we go.
I have a few issues with this section. Now, the first is nitpicky, and so you can most likely disregard it, but I found the repetition of a-l sounds in the the first three lines (and... will in the first) a little distracting. Everything from "those bipolar" to the end of this section is just sort of dragging its feet. I see what you're going for, but the sentiments are just not getting across. The language feels flat, especially at "far too casual/ inappropriate tones." Make this evocative, really pull at our senses, make the din and dischord audible when we read and speak it.

Even up to our knees in swallowing
water, without a paddle and only our arms,
We're still humming this tune along
Even to the fact that we have no choices
Left except to accept we must abandon everything
And try and swim ourselves to shore.
"Swallowing/ water" is another ineffectual description because it lacks any sort of imaginative oomph to it. There's also a lot of excess wordage going on here, which I've bolded. These things only drag down the flow and add unnecessary details that don't build your images. "Except to accept" is a trite and overly used turn of phrase, and I know you can do better than this. The last two lines are a good place to go, but not the way you go to get there. The language is so bare bones that it's an image that most people would construct. There's little creativity being displayed, which I call out because I have seen you write imaginative stuff; instead, it seems like you're almost settling to get the point across the easy way, without trying to yoke the mind into feeling this sentiment.

And I know we might get separated and
Lose each other to the different sides of the swamp.
Because I've known you've been riveted
With the places you are, while I've
Been feeling displacent with where I'm not.
This section's ok, though I think "I've/ been displaced" is much better than "been feeling displacent" (I'm fairly certain displacent isn't a word, though I haven't checked, so I might be wrong). Again, bolded words are excess.

So if the distances pulls away,
And I become too afraid to cross
Out of fears of growing rigid in the mud, or
Losing my will to swim and drowning, well darling,
You'll be lost forever instead of just for now.
The image of the mud is good, but not quite there yet. "Out of fears" could be parced down to "for fear" with no ill effect. The idea of the mud trapping you is right on the money, but "growing rigid in the mud" is not the best way to say this. Becoming rigid from the mud, perhaps? The bolded line is just a weak rehashing of what you've already said, and the darling bit feels tacted on. It feels unnatural to hear this from the speaker, who doesn't seem to have the swagger to pull off an off-handed address like this.

But these are our options, so let us weigh
The consequences and rewards of each action that we take.
Either we stay here or one of us goes there
Or we can be resigned to live on these two separate sides
But we cannot, and I will not, try to do a little bit of each
This last line works for me. It has the right amount of force to pull it off, and because it's so plain spoken, it's almost a daring last line.

Some general thoughts: Your capitalization in the beginning of this seems sporatic, and I'm think this might benefit from some stanza breaks (I think you have a tendency to write in one big stanza, which is all well and good, but sometimes it can amplify the movement by having moments stand on their own, rather than have them bleeding into one another). The language in general digresses as the poem goes on. You start by creating imagines and invoking scenes, then turn to a weakly constructed metaphor, then turn to rather bland addresses. All of what is said can be said quite effectively if you stick to what you start with, that is, trying to make this emotive and evocative. I think the biggest problem is that it starts a little more generally in the beginning, but then becomes clearly pointed and personal, to the point where it essentially takes the reader out of the poem. It's fine for this to be a personal piece, but you need to make sure you're actively engaging the reader, too.

As far as the whole "I'll divvy up" thing goes: I'm with David in that there's no way you can be called out for plagarism for such a common phrase. There's nothing noteworthy, special, or creative about it, thus it's not a bit of language someone can claim to have used in a way where someone else's usage would be deemed lifting from the first iteration. "Divvy" is clearly the word that calls this all into question, but it's not a word that particiarly stands out for its usage. I don't think you did anything wrong by using it.

[Ryzenfall]

I'll portion and parcel up
All those stoical actions
I have to say, as much of a ruckus was stirred up over the old line, this works a lot better. The flow is smoother and i feel it conveys a sense of careful precision, more so than the other line, setting a good tone for the rest.
"stoical" reads a bit strange for me still though.

That we as kids all partook in
And try my best to dry off my skin
Before the undertow we created
Drags me back in again.
I think there could be more done for this to make it more effective upon the reader. I found the rhymes distracting, which is a bit ironic because I'm notorious for my constrictive rhyme schemes. But maybe this would do better if you told more and rhymed less.

And we will recite
A list of all those broken lines,
All the notes we missed
When trying to sing our lies.
Those bipolar decibels, out of tune
pitches, and far too casual
inappropriate tones,
but still, we insist on
Humming this song wherever we go.
I'd say the same for this as the last section. I do like the ending though, and how it suddenly reveals a lot of character.

Even up to our knees in swallowing
water, without a paddle and only our arms,
We're still humming this tune along
This section is not bad, but it simply seems redundant because you've basically narrated this core premise already.

Even to the fact that we have no choices
Left except to accept we must abandon everything
And try and swim ourselves to shore.
And I know we might get separated and
Lose each other to the different sides of the swamp.
Sometimes I feel you have the ability to tell a lot with few words, but this seems to be telling little with a lot. I think you can get this across in fewer words and better narration, especially because again, much of this has been stated already.

Because I've known you've been riveted
With the places you are, while I've
Been feeling displacent with where I'm not.
So if the distances pulls away,
And I become too afraid to cross
Out of fears of growing rigid in the mud, or
Losing my will to swim and drowning, well darling,
You'll be lost forever instead of just for now.
This is probably my favorite section as it stands. It's very raw and engaging. I still think the flow can be improved upon, but I like the basis of what's being told.

But these are our options, so let us weigh
The consequences and rewards of each action that we take.
Either we stay here or one of us goes there
Or we can be resigned to live on these two separate sides
But we cannot, and I will not, try to do a little bit of each
I like the calculating nature of this, and this ending gives the reader some payoff. The beginning seems a bit cliche but maybe that's okay, considering that it's a familiar thought process and entirely appropriate for this piece.