way too much stock is put into being able to "relate" to lyrics

[thespearkid]

Discuss. I don't listen to music to hear someone say exactly what I'm feeling. I like music that evokes feelings, rather than piggy backing off the ones I already have.

[xJesusFreakx]

Really, any music that can evoke feelings must be relatable in at least some way. How can you be moved by something when you're not emotionally attached to it? The one seems to imply the other. I feel like you are specifically referring to lyrics that you can place yourself into, ones that accurately describe how your life is, so I'll talk about that kind of relatable.

For me, all of my favorite music involves lyrics that I can relate to in a very real and personal manner. I enjoy those kind of lyrics so much, not because I somehow find them superior to others, but because they feel comforting. There is something powerful about being able to have a conversation with someone who's been through something you have as well, positive or negative, and those kind of songs work in the same way. I get the encouragement of seeing someone else who has the same experiences as myself, and then potentially see how he/she made his/her way through.

Really, though, I guess it depends on what you're listening to music for. Some people listen for the musical and/or lyrical proficiency, so as to appreciate the great talent of the individual(s) involved, as at a museum or a weight-lifting competition. Others listen for the relatable lyrics, as they would go to a friend to talk. Still others just listen for the entertainment, as one would ride a roller-coaster for. There are probably other reasons, but I think you see what I'm saying. This difference in attitude is why we have so many styles of music, from Maylene and the Sons of Disaster to the National.

I personally enjoy music for all of those reasons, but the relatable lyrics just happen to be my favorite.

[thespearkid]

Really, any music that can evoke feelings must be relatable in at least some way. How can you be moved by something when you're not emotionally attached to it? The one seems to imply the other. I feel like you are specifically referring to lyrics that you can place yourself into, ones that accurately describe how your life is, so I'll talk about that kind of relatable.
I'll use Neutral Milk Hotel as an example. There's very little on relate to on that album, as the lyrics are very out-there. That's one of the main things I love about it though. Rather than being dependent on striking a chord with emotions I already have, it instead creates those emotions on it's own. A cliche break up song could have an effect on me but that effect would not exist if I weren't going through a break up. My emotional attachment to Neutral Milk Hotel exists because of the things they have CREATED through their music, the emotions and feelings I would have never experienced with the aid of their records.

For me, all of my favorite music involves lyrics that I can relate to in a very real and personal manner. I enjoy those kind of lyrics so much, not because I somehow find them superior to others, but because they feel comforting. There is something powerful about being able to have a conversation with someone who's been through something you have as well, positive or negative, and those kind of songs work in the same way. I get the encouragement of seeing someone else who has the same experiences as myself, and then potentially see how he/she made his/her way through.
It's comforting, yes, but it does nothing but manipulate my current emotions and attach itself to things I'm already feeling. The emotional connection I feel with "OK Computer" is much stronger than the one I feel with "Pet Sounds" because "OK Computer" evokes things I could never have felt on my own, while "Pet Sounds", while an amazing record, takes advantage of feelings I already have.

Really, though, I guess it depends on what you're listening to music for. Some people listen for the musical and/or lyrical proficiency, so as to appreciate the great talent of the individual(s) involved, as at a museum or a weight-lifting competition. Others listen for the relatable lyrics, as they would go to a friend to talk. Still others just listen for the entertainment, as one would ride a roller-coaster for. There are probably other reasons, but I think you see what I'm saying. This difference in attitude is why we have so many styles of music, from Maylene and the Sons of Disaster to the National.

I personally enjoy music for all of those reasons, but the relatable lyrics just happen to be my favorite.
A lot of it comes down to personal preference, yes, but there is so much beautiful music written that is extremely difficult to relate to a personal basis that some people just shrug off as being "dense for the sake of dense" or "surrealist bullshit" (both of those quotes are taken from one of mine and David's first arguments, btw).

[xJesusFreakx]

I'll use Neutral Milk Hotel as an example. There's very little on relate to on that album, as the lyrics are very out-there. That's one of the main things I love about it though. Rather than being dependent on striking a chord with emotions I already have, it instead creates those emotions on it's own. A cliche break up song could have an effect on me but that effect would not exist if I weren't going through a break up. My emotional attachment to Neutral Milk Hotel exists because of the things they have CREATED through their music, the emotions and feelings I would have never experienced with the aid of their records.

What about NMH's lyrics make them strike a chord with you? Regardless, whatever it is, the fact that it's striking a chord proves that it's relating in a certain sense of the word. (I'm using "relate" here not to mean that you've experienced what the lyrics are describing, but to mean that you've been moved by it. If it struck a chord, then it connected in some way, and therefore is "relatable," just not in the most basic way.)

It's comforting, yes, but it does nothing but manipulate my current emotions and attach itself to things I'm already feeling. The emotional connection I feel with "OK Computer" is much stronger than the one I feel with "Pet Sounds" because "OK Computer" evokes things I could never have felt on my own, while "Pet Sounds", while an amazing record, takes advantage of feelings I already have.

This essentially leads into the next paragraph. Going back to the first one, though, OK Computer creates certain characters, events, and feelings, and that fictional situation presented on that album, while not an experience you've personally had, is relatable in that you are able to connect with it and care enough about it for it to strike that emotional chord. It's just a difference type of relating.

A lot of it comes down to personal preference, yes, but there is so much beautiful music written that is extremely difficult to relate to a personal basis that some people just shrug off as being "dense for the sake of dense" or "surrealist bullshit" (both of those quotes are taken from one of mine and David's first arguments, btw).

What's wrong with someone shrugging the more intellectual or technically proficient music? Like I said, there are different reasons that people decide to listen to music. Perhaps the person merely listens for entertainment purposes. This doesn't make the person stupider; maybe he/she prefers to engage his/her mind with something else (like perhaps literature) and then uses music to unwind. It's just a difference in why the person is listening to music. Expecting someone who listens to music for entertainment to prefer Kid A over the newest Kelly Clarkson single is silly, and wanting to make said person listen to music for different reasons borders on ignorance.

[11:11]

I listen to music to hear someone else's thoughts, but when I can relate, it definitely makes the song better. I don't go out of my way to find those songs though.

[zonto]

I'll use Neutral Milk Hotel as an example. There's very little on relate to on that album, as the lyrics are very out-there. [snip]

I dunno, maybe people make a habit of sexing others and/or themselves up on mountain tops? :shrug:

[Charles777]

I don't really have to relate to lyrics to be able to respond to them, but it helps for sure.

[SophGod]

i can relate to a lot of songs, but i definitely agree that i would rather listen to songs that evoke my own emotion.

[envytheliving]

A song doesn't really need to be relatable for me to like its lyrics as long as it tells a good/interesting story.

[xJesusFreakx]

Dion, are you going to continue our conversation? I'm enjoying it.

[thespearkid]

What about NMH's lyrics make them strike a chord with you? Regardless, whatever it is, the fact that it's striking a chord proves that it's relating in a certain sense of the word. (I'm using "relate" here not to mean that you've experienced what the lyrics are describing, but to mean that you've been moved by it. If it struck a chord, then it connected in some way, and therefore is "relatable," just not in the most basic way.) This essentially leads into the next paragraph. Going back to the first one, though, OK Computer creates certain characters, events, and feelings, and that fictional situation presented on that album, while not an experience you've personally had, is relatable in that you are able to connect with it and care enough about it for it to strike that emotional chord. It's just a difference type of relating.
When I refer to lyrics that are relatable, I'm referring to songs that speak about common subjects in a clear, obvious fashion. Most pop-punk bands fall victim to this. Quite frankly, I think it's too easy. It bores me. Albums like "OK Computer" and "In the Aeroplane Over the Sea" aren't really easy to relate to in the sense we're discussing here. To me, those albums are more beautiful than any song that exemplifies things I'm going through.

What's wrong with someone shrugging the more intellectual or technically proficient music? Like I said, there are different reasons that people decide to listen to music. Perhaps the person merely listens for entertainment purposes. This doesn't make the person stupider; maybe he/she prefers to engage his/her mind with something else (like perhaps literature) and then uses music to unwind. It's just a difference in why the person is listening to music. Expecting someone who listens to music for entertainment to prefer Kid A over the newest Kelly Clarkson single is silly, and wanting to make said person listen to music for different reasons borders on ignorance.
I'll concede that point to you that people listen to music for different reasons but let's just talk about people who are" passionate" about music for a second. Sure, a casual music listener will probably prefer an easily relateable Kelly Clarkson quip but for those who are serious about music yet still put more value into a relatable Blink-182 lyric than they do in a surrealist Iron & Wine lyric, there needs to be a reevaluating, or at least an acceptance, of music that isn't relateable.

[oddwithoutend]

As an art critic, relatability is irrelevant. As a human being, it is quite important.

[thespearkid]

Dion, are you going to continue our conversation? I'm enjoying it.
haha you posted this as I was typing my response.

[thespearkid]

As an art critic, relatability is irrelevant. As a human being, it is quite important.
I disagree. As a human being, I get more satisfaction from listening to an album that I have to stretch myself to understand.

[oddwithoutend]

I disagree. As a human being, I get more satisfaction from listening to an album that I have to stretch myself to understand.

Definitely, but to say that relatability is completely irrelevant is naive. Almost everything is relatable to some degree, so I would say different people have different levels of relatability that they can be comfortable with.

[xJesusFreakx]

When I refer to lyrics that are relatable, I'm referring to songs that speak about common subjects in a clear, obvious fashion. Most pop-punk bands fall victim to this. Quite frankly, I think it's too easy. It bores me. Albums like "OK Computer" and "In the Aeroplane Over the Sea" aren't really easy to relate to in the sense we're discussing here. To me, those albums are more beautiful than any song that exemplifies things I'm going through.

Fair enough. I was simply trying to imply that "relatable" can be used to describe more than just the simplest level of relating that this thread is talking about. I guess that's a different topic, though.

I'll concede that point to you that people listen to music for different reasons but let's just talk about people who are" passionate" about music for a second. Sure, a casual music listener will probably prefer an easily relateable Kelly Clarkson quip but for those who are serious about music yet still put more value into a relatable Blink-182 lyric than they do in a surrealist Iron & Wine lyric, there needs to be a reevaluating, or at least an acceptance, of music that isn't relateable.

Well, how do you define "passionate" about music? Perhaps the person who prefers Mark Hoppus and Tom Delonge to Sam Beam is still passionate about his/her love for music, but he/she just happens to passionately love music that's fun and defines where they are in their lives at the moment. Is this person any less passionate?

I agree that there should be an acceptance of music for what it is, outside of your personal preference, and that goes with everything. Fun music is fun; catchy music is catchy; heavy music is heavy; relaxing music is relaxing; deep music is deep.

[thespearkid]

Definitely, but to say that relatability is completely irrelevant is naive. Almost everything is relatable to some degree, so I would say different people have different levels of relatability that they can be comfortable with.
I'm not saying it's completely irrelevant. I'm just saying there's too much stock put into it. It's just not as important as the Paramore/ATL/whoever fans think it is.

[thespearkid]

Fair enough. I was simply trying to imply that "relatable" can be used to describe more than just the simplest level of relating that this thread is talking about. I guess that's a different topic, though.



Well, how do you define "passionate" about music? Perhaps the person who prefers Mark Hoppus and Tom Delonge to Sam Beam is still passionate about his/her love for music, but he/she just happens to passionately love music that's fun and defines where they are in their lives at the moment. Is this person any less passionate?

I agree that there should be an acceptance of music for what it is, outside of your personal preference, and that goes with everything. Fun music is fun; catchy music is catchy; heavy music is heavy; relaxing music is relaxing; deep music is deep.
I respond to this later tonight. Quote me and remind me around 11.

[oddwithoutend]

I'm not saying it's completely irrelevant. I'm just saying there's too much stock put into it. It's just not as important as the Paramore/ATL/whoever fans think it is.

Yeah, I've read your discussion now and understand what you meant. I agree.

[weezy mac]

I only listen to bands who's lyrics I can relate to, which is why I only listen to Cannibal Corpse.

[boxingwithstars]

i love when i'm able to relate to the lyrics. there are some songs and albums that hit so close to home, it's just hard not to feel an emotional bond with them. it makes listening an even better experience, in my opinion.

of course, it's not everything. songs don't have to be easy to relate to or even have really great lyrics in order for me to form some sort of attachment to them... i just love the songs that are.

[pleasedontask]

I dont search for songs that I can relate too as everyone's said. Most of my favorite songs are about things or feelings that I havent expeirnced or felt.

But at the same time when you hear a song for the first time, and you hear the lyrics, and you like start it over just to make sure you heard it right, and it's like "that's EXACTLY how I feel about that.." There's something to be said about that too.

[theguy77]

i could care less if lyrics talk about a situation i have/had. my life is boring and generally without drama or dilemma, so the lyrics would be really boring if i really felt like they related to me. the important thing, when you're talking about lyrics written with intentional pathos, is not the writer can write about YOUR situation, but instead, that the writer can make you feel like you're in the situation THEY wrote about. using two simple examples -- death cab for cutie's songs "brothers on a hotel bed" and "what sarah said". at 19 years old, ive never come close to experiencing a loss of love due to age-related changes in my maturity/personality. ive never known what it was like to be dying in a hospital bed with the knowledge that someone who cares about me is going to lose me. but the lyrics completely engage you and immerse you in the feeling, using, not topics, but images and expressions that you can relate to, which act as a catalyst to making the topic an object of your compassion.

and this is only talking about lyrics that are meant to engage the listener's feelings. other times a writer can write introspectively, or politically, or with a sense of self-actualization, and i can appreciate any of those things just as much. it all depends on the writing style.

[punk89]

My general criteria for listening to music is whether or not it evokes an emotion in me, whether it be nostalgia, excitement, sadness, bitterness, etc. The music needs to create a feeling. But, it's the songs that really seem to sing about something I've felt or been a part of before that really strike a nerve.

[brentywat]

this has already been said sort of, but a good lyric is a good lyric, relatable or not. i find myself enjoying lyrics i dont even agree with on an intellectual level, let alone relate to emotionally, simply because i think they're good lyrics and they are presented in a way that is effective to me when im listening to them. neutral milk hotel is a good example of this, like you already mentioned. i have trouble even understanding what those songs are about or relating to them personally, but i certainly enjoy them a lot.

on the other hand though, it does enhance the lyric if i can relate to it personally. it just does, its impossible to deny that.

there i go, contradicting myself.

[xJesusFreakx]

I respond to this later tonight. Quote me and remind me around 11.

I was supposed to quote this by now, I think. Uh, hi.

[thespearkid]

Well, how do you define "passionate" about music? Perhaps the person who prefers Mark Hoppus and Tom Delonge to Sam Beam is still passionate about his/her love for music, but he/she just happens to passionately love music that's fun and defines where they are in their lives at the moment. Is this person any less passionate?

I agree that there should be an acceptance of music for what it is, outside of your personal preference, and that goes with everything. Fun music is fun; catchy music is catchy; heavy music is heavy; relaxing music is relaxing; deep music is deep.
Which circles back to the original point of the thread; way too much stock is put into being able to relate. I'm not saying people who prefer Tom DeLonge to Sam Beam aren't passionate about music but there is something to be said to those who legitimately think DeLonge is BETTER than Beam simply because DeLonge's lyrics are easier to relate to. After all, isn't that pretty much the only reason kids call certain bands pretentious these days? Because they don't understand the music and can't relate to it like they can Blink or ATL?

[on a frequency]

Really, any music that can evoke feelings must be relatable in at least some way. How can you be moved by something when you're not emotionally attached to it?

i am so often moved by lyrics that don't have anything to do with anything i have personally experienced. if the lyrics are written in a way that tells a powerful story and conveys deep emotion, whether or not i have ever come across a similar story or experienced similar emotions becomes irrelevant - hearing somebody tell their own story moves me. relatable lyrics are awesome, but most of the music i am really moved and inspired by is not anything i can honestly personally relate to - it's usually just a person's experience that is told in a really creative or vivid or honest way that evokes emotion in me, even though i'm detached from the subject matter of the song. actually, come to think of it, this is the music that's most impressive to me - the stuff that can really make me feel something outside of what i've ever felt or experienced. that kind of powerful is just really awesome.

[xJesusFreakx]

Which circles back to the original point of the thread; way too much stock is put into being able to relate. I'm not saying people who prefer Tom DeLonge to Sam Beam aren't passionate about music but there is something to be said to those who legitimately think DeLonge is BETTER than Beam simply because DeLonge's lyrics are easier to relate to. After all, isn't that pretty much the only reason kids call certain bands pretentious these days? Because they don't understand the music and can't relate to it like they can Blink or ATL?

I don't feel like the average person would consider Tom objectively better than Sam. Someone may say that Tom is "better," but I think this is always an implied "I like him more," and the core issue is merely one of semantics; if you were to confront him/her about this, he/she would most likely admit to this, in one way or another.

[thespearkid]

I don't feel like the average person would consider Tom objectively better than Sam. Someone may say that Tom is "better," but I think this is always an implied "I like him more," and the core issue is merely one of semantics; if you were to confront him/her about this, he/she would most likely admit to this, in one way or another.
You give the Blink fans too much credit.

[xJesusFreakx]

i am so often moved by lyrics that don't have anything to do with anything i have personally experienced. if the lyrics are written in a way that tells a powerful story and conveys deep emotion, whether or not i have ever come across a similar story or experienced similar emotions becomes irrelevant - hearing somebody tell their own story moves me. relatable lyrics are awesome, but most of the music i am really moved and inspired by is not anything i can honestly personally relate to - it's usually just a person's experience that is told in a really creative or vivid or honest way that evokes emotion in me, even though i'm detached from the subject matter of the song. actually, come to think of it, this is the music that's most impressive to me - the stuff that can really make me feel something outside of what i've ever felt or experienced. that kind of powerful is just really awesome.

I would consider that a type of relating. The lyrics aren't describing you, but they are describing a person that you are able to sympathize or empathize with in a very real manner, like you would a person you were talking to. It might be a stretch to say that this is the same thing as relating, but it is, at the very least, a very similar thing.

[pleasedontask]

I don't feel like the average person would consider Tom objectively better than Sam. Someone may say that Tom is "better," but I think this is always an implied "I like him more," and the core issue is merely one of semantics; if you were to confront him/her about this, he/she would most likely admit to this, in one way or another.

agree with this. Just becasue people say they like blink more becasue they can relate does not in anyway mean that they think, objectively, that tom may be better than, like your example, sam. But the fact is that's what they enjoy more for whatever reason, I doubt its the same for everyone.

[cirerelleum]

i don't base how much i like music on how much i can relate to the lyrics, but I will admit that I'm a selfish bastard and go "OMG THIS IS SO ME" whenever a song describes the way I'm feeling or a past experience in my life.

[xJesusFreakx]

You give the Blink fans too much credit.

I think you give them too little credit. They might be too annoyed with your "pretentiousness/arrogance" to explicitly admit it, but the "better" that they would use to describe their preference of blink-182 over a more talented band definitely implies that they enjoy the band more, not that they are somehow a much more lyrically gifted or musically proficient group of artists. It leads back to a basic misunderstanding of the terms "good," "better," and "great." It's the semantics of it all.

[on a frequency]

i never think much about whether i can relate to lyrics, unless the song blatantly speaks to something i have dealt with before or am going through, etc. i usually just listen to whatever grabs my attention musically, and then if on top of that the lyrics are good, and the song as a whole evokes emotion, that's when i know it's something i can love.
but really, i feel like everything i listen to makes me feel something - whether it makes me feel happy or sad or as someone said nostalgic, or whatever really.
hmm. my thoughts on this seem to be all over the place. i never think about this. i guess i just give everything i can a chance, and then stick to whatever i am viscerally attracted to after a few listens. and then from there, as i keep listening, i figure out what emotions my music can invoke.

[on a frequency]

I would consider that a type of relating. The lyrics aren't describing you, but they are describing a person that you are able to sympathize or empathize with in a very real manner, like you would a person you were talking to. It might be a stretch to say that this is the same thing as relating, but it is, at the very least, a very similar thing.
interesting take on that. i hadn't really thought of it that way. by that way of thought, then i guess i really do relate to a lot of what i listen to. which is not the most important thing to me, but it does make the music a little more special and enjoyable in a different way.

[xJesusFreakx]

interesting take on that. i hadn't really thought of it that way. by that way of thought, then i guess i really do relate to a lot of what i listen to. which is not the most important thing to me, but it does make the music a little more special and enjoyable in a different way.

Yeah, sometimes technical proficiency or entertaining ability are primary reason to listen to music, but I think "relating" is definitely a major aspect of enjoying what you enjoy. Heck, one could maybe even make an argument for proficiency or entertainment still being "relating" in a roundabout sort of way (though that'd definitely be a stretch). If there isn't something that makes you care, you're not going to care. It's that simple.

[The Personist]

I relate better to music that is crafted and not contrived.

[inuewiwedem]

If I feel a certain personal connection to a song or can relate to the lyrics, it definitely makes the song more enjoyable for me, but it's not something that I find to be necessary in music.

[The Personist]

The best lyrics are the kind that are both relatable and highly crafted. Example: mewithoutYou.

[inuewiwedem]

The best lyrics are the kind that are both relatable and highly crafted. Example: mewithoutYou.
I agree, it's the best of both worlds.

Aaron writes killer lyrics.

[xJesusFreakx]

The best lyrics are the kind that are both relatable and highly crafted. Example: mewithoutYou.

Definitely.

[envytheliving]

The best lyrics are the kind that are both relatable and highly crafted. Example: mewithoutYou.

I agree.

[boysandbulletsx]

I love the kind of songs that verbalize how I'm feeling when I don't know how to say it myself. You know, that song that explains it in the most accurate, clever, and profound manner. he ones that give words to the most intense emotions.

Music is so much about how it makes us feel. I feel especially connected to lyrics that we can relate to. It doesn't mean that those lyrics are necessarily "good," but when it comes to what I enjoy listening to and what I like, lyrics that I can relate to should be more important than something that is well written. However, that is besides the point.

I like both kinds of lyrics, but I'll usually favor the song that I can relate to because of how it creates that special connection. I love "Limousine" because of the images and emotions it evokes, but "The No Seatbelt Song" will always be my favorite because I've experienced the sentiments expressed in that song.

[Chromefox]

I find that I relate to music a great deal more than I relate to lyrics. My life is pretty mundane, and nothing to write songs about, but musically I have found connections or parallels. I think it's foolish to disregard an album because you can't relate to what the artist was thinking at the time it was written. I relate to none of my favourite albums lyrically, but that does not hinder my enjoyment of them.

[The Personist]

I find that I relate to music a great deal more than I relate to lyrics. My life is pretty mundane, and nothing to write songs about, but musically I have found connections or parallels. I think it's foolish to disregard an album because you can't relate to what the artist was thinking at the time it was written. I relate to none of my favourite albums lyrically, but that does not hinder my enjoyment of them.

If the singing weren't there, you would relate to them differently, though, right?

[Chromefox]

If the singing weren't there, you would relate to them differently, though, right? Certainly, not because of what is being said, but because of the absence of the voice and its melodies. I mean, people relate to Sigur Ros, and they sing gibberish.

[The Personist]

Certainly, not because of what is being said, but because of the absence of the voice and its melodies. I mean, people relate to Sigur Ros, and they sing gibberish.

Actually, some of their lyrics are pretty awesome in translation.

Anyway, but if it were just vocalizations without the words, it would still change the overall song.

[Chromefox]

Actually, some of their lyrics are pretty awesome in translation.

Anyway, but if it were just vocalizations without the words, it would still change the overall song. Irrelevant. We're not arguing whether having lyrics at all is important, we're arguing if what those lyrics are saying is paramount.

[The Personist]

Irrelevant. We're not arguing whether having lyrics at all is important, we're arguing if what those lyrics are saying is paramount.

I know. I was going somewhere with all this; namely, that lyrics are important in that their very presence shapes the music (the vocalizations) but also that what they say shapes the music as well. If the lyrics to "Chemtrails" were different, would it not change the song itself? Therefore, what the lyrics say is critical to the songwriting, since the music and lyrics are married more so than they are slapped together.

[tyramail]

i like when i relate to lyrics, but it's not very often. i'm not a very emotional person, so that's probably why i tend to like a lot of "fun" music like 3oh3 and what not. not that i don't like other bands that i know are better than them, but sometimes it's hard to get into bands when i don't really connect, and i don't have to worry about that with bands like 3oh3.

[Gat$by]

I can find emotion through lyrics that tell a story, even if its something that has absolutely nothing to do with me, and that I can enjoy, but on the same token, I would much rather listen to a song that is conveying my feelings at the time.

[Chromefox]

I can find emotion through lyrics that tell a story, even if its something that has absolutely nothing to do with me, and that I can enjoy, but on the same token, I would much rather listen to a song that is conveying my feelings at the time. I prefer to let what I am listening to dictate my emotions.

[The Personist]

But can't emotions you have going into the listening experience influence what you listen to and how you respond?

[chipdip18]

I agree with the OP. I mean yeah, that's a nice way to get in touch with the music/melody what have you, but it shouldn't be invested in a whole lot. Good lyrics are like good poems. They've got to have substance, literary devices, etc. But who knows, i could be wrong. Maybe my standards and what i look for in lyrics aren't correct or objective.

I think the question here is what standards should we use that are objectice? And how much should we weigh in relatability? I agree with the OP that it shouldn't be as much as it is. I'm assuming it's like 60%-70% now, and it should be like 30%-40%.

[xJesusFreakx]

I agree with the OP. I mean yeah, that's a nice way to get in touch with the music/melody what have you, but it shouldn't be invested in a whole lot. Good lyrics are like good poems. They've got to have substance, literary devices, etc. But who knows, i could be wrong. Maybe my standards and what i look for in lyrics aren't correct or objective.

I think the question here is what standards should we use that are objectice? And how much should we weigh in relatability? I agree with the OP that it shouldn't be as much as it is. I'm assuming it's like 60%-70% now, and it should be like 30%-40%.

I think that this kind of statement assumes too much. As I said earlier in this thread, there are different reasons for listening to music. Is it not a bit hasty, and even arguably ignorant, to assume that everyone should listen to music so as to appreciate the craft of the lyrics or instrumentation? Would such an assumption be fair?

[chipdip18]

I think that this kind of statement assumes too much. As I said earlier in this thread, there are different reasons for listening to music. Is it not a bit hasty, and even arguably ignorant, to assume that everyone should listen to music so as to appreciate the craft of the lyrics or instrumentation? Would such an assumption be fair?

No way, the assumption isn't fair at all. It's just what i perceive, i could be entirely false.

[The Personist]

I think Cradle Of Filth lyrics are amazing and they engage and evoke emotions. I literally cannot relate to a single thing in any of their songs.

[xJesusFreakx]

No way, the assumption isn't fair at all. It's just what i perceive, i could be entirely false.

Ha, fair enough.

I feel like the statement in this thread's title assumes too much. People are allowed to listen to whatever they want, for whatever reasons they want, and it's silly to expect other people in general to use music the same way that you or I do.

[xJesusFreakx]

I think Cradle Of Filth lyrics are amazing and they engage and evoke emotions. I literally cannot relate to a single thing in any of their songs.

Post your favorite Cradle of Filth song's lyrics for discussion purposes.

[The Personist]

Post your favorite Cradle of Filth song's lyrics for discussion purposes.



I was born with a birthmark of cinders
Debris cast from the stars and Mother
A ring of bright slaughter, I spat in the waters
Of life that ran slick from the stabwounds in Her

Dub Me Lord Abortion, the living dead
The bonesaw on the backseat
On this bitter night of giving head
A sharp rear entry, an exit in red
Lump in the throat, on my come choke
The killing joke worn thin with breath

I grew up on the sluts bastard Father beat blue
Keepsake cunts cut full out easing puberty through

Aah! Nostalgia grows
Now times nine or ten
Within this vice den called a soul
Dying from resurrection
I dig deep to come again
The spasm of orgasm on a roll...

I live the slow serrated rape
The bucks fizz of amyl nitrate
Victims force fed their own face
Tear stains upon the drape
I should compare them
To a warm Summer's day
But to the letter, it is better
To lichen their names to a grave

Counting My years on an abacus strung
With labial rings and heartstrings undone

Dub Me Lord Abortion, the living dead
The bonesaw on the backseat
On this bitter night of giving head
A sharp rear entry, an exit in red
Lump in the throat, on My come choke
The killing joke worn thin with breath

Horrorscopes My diorama
A twelve part psychodrama
Another chained I mean to harm Her
Inside as well as out
A perverts gasp inside the mask
I'm hard, blow My house of cards
All turn up Death, Her bleeding starts
In brute vermilion parts...

Now I slither through the hairline cracks
In sanity, best watch your back

Possessed with levering Hell's gates wide
Liberating knives to cut Humanity slack

My ambition is to slay anon
A sinner in the hands of a dirty God
Who lets Me prey, a Gilles De Rais
Of light where faith leads truth astray

I slit guts and free the moistest faeces
Corrupt the corpse and seize the choicest pieces
Her alabaster limbs that dim the lit carnal grin
Vaginal skin to later taste and masturbate within

"My heart was a war-drum beat
By jugular cults in eerie jungle vaults
When number thirteen fell in My lap
Lips and skin like sin, a Venus Man-trap
My appetite whetted, storm crows wheeled
At the blurred edges or reason 'till I was fulfilled
Whors d'oeuvres eaten, I tucked Her into
A grave coffin fit for the Queen of Spades
She went out like the light in My mind
Her face an avalanche of pearl, of ruby wine...
Much was a flux, but the mouth once good for fucks
Came from retirement to prove She had not lost Her touch
I kissed Her viciously, maliciously, religiously
But when has ONE been able TO best separate the THREE?
I know I'm sick as Dahmer did, but this is what I do
Ahh, ahh, ahh, I'll let you sleep when I am through...
You fucking whore."

The suspect shadows where they least
Expect My burning grasp to reach

The stranglehold, the opened arms
Seeking sweet meat with no holes barred

Rainbows that My razors wrung
Midst Her screams and seams undone
Sung at the top of punctured lungs
I bite My spiteful tongue
Lest curses spat from primal lairs
Freeze romance where Angels, bare
Are lost to love, blood-loss, despair
I weep, they merely stare...
And stare, and stare, and stare, and stare.

In terms of poesy, this is better than almost anything else I listen to.

[theguy77]

i like lyrics that i can relate to, but i ADORE lyrics that make me feel like im experiencing something ive never experienced.

how well something is crafted, though, has been the most important thing to me in music since 2007.

[The Personist]

Ryan can relate to those Cradle of Filth lyrics...

[xJesusFreakx]

You're not listening to that song for something relatable, but there is certainly a connection between the song and who you are: You're a writer, so the craft is what draws you in. The common interest in poetry between you and the lyricist is that you both love the craft that goes into poetry. I likely wouldn't stretch the word "relatable" that far to include this connection, but it is a personal connection nonetheless.

[chipdip18]

Ha, fair enough.

I feel like the statement in this thread's title assumes too much. People are allowed to listen to whatever they want, for whatever reasons they want, and it's silly to expect other people in general to use music the same way that you or I do.

Now that is the really idea in question. Is it silly to set objective standards to judge lyrical quality and how far should they go, what should they be? Is relatability a factor in that? For me, it is no then yes.

[xJesusFreakx]

Now that is the really idea in question. Is it silly to set objective standards to judge lyrical quality and how far should they go, what should they be? Is relatability a factor in that? For me, it is no then yes.

Well, this goes back to whether we are talking about objectively judging the lyrics or subjectively enjoying them. Is it silly to set objective standards to judge lyrical quality? No. Is relatability a factor in that? Relatability is inherently subjective, so I'm not sure how this could realistically be factored in objectively.

[theguy77]

You're not listening to that song for something relatable, but there is certainly a connection between the song and who you are: You're a writer, so the craft is what draws you in. The common interest in poetry between you and the lyricist is that you both love the craft that goes into poetry. I likely wouldn't stretch the word "relatable" that far to include this connection, but it is a personal connection nonetheless.

this is an excellent point, it probably is because im a writer that the quality of craft appeals to me. however, thats not something that ONLY writers can experience; megan (chromefox) has proven to me time and time again that it is one of the most important parts about music to her, and shes never written music (although she does make visual art).

[chipdip18]

Well, this goes back to whether we are talking about objectively judging the lyrics or subjectively enjoying them. Is it silly to set objective standards to judge lyrical quality? No. Is relatability a factor in that? Relatability is inherently subjective, so I'm not sure how this could realistically be factored in objectively.

Great points.

Relatability is inherently subjective, but does that subjectivity effect the objective quality in lyrics? I don't think so. At most, it can only be novelty in that sense. Looks like we're on the same page.

[thespearkid]

But can't emotions you have going into the listening experience influence what you listen to and how you respond?
Great point. I think truly great albums/songs though create a certain atmosphere that can change their listener's emotion.

[xJesusFreakx]

this is an excellent point, it probably is because im a writer that the quality of craft appeals to me. however, thats not something that ONLY writers can experience; megan (chromefox) has proven to me time and time again that it is one of the most important parts about music to her, and shes never written music (although she does make visual art).

Fair enough. I do think that being able to relate to (personally or empathetically/sympathetically) the lyrics, or appreciate the craft of the song, strongly enhances personal enjoyment, and I also think of that as a positive thing. Also, going back to the root question/statement of the thread, there is nothing wrong with people subjectively preferring Brand New or Taking Back Sunday over Radiohead or Bright Eyes on account of being able to relate to the song better. It's all a matter of why the person listens to music, and is all subjective.

Great points.

Relatability is inherently subjective, but does that subjectivity effect the objective quality in lyrics? I don't think so. At most, it can only be novelty in that sense. Looks like we're on the same page.

Pretty much. Sounds about right. :thumbup:

[Greg]

My favorite songs are ones I can relate to. There is a depth in that connection that goes deeper than songs I enjoy for what they are without a connection to relate to. Sometimes I can relate to songs even if it is not a current circumstance in my life. Like recently Thrice's song "The Weight", I am not in love right now but I love the message of that song and desire to love someone like that. Obviously when circumstances do match there is a strong connection. I enjoy songs like that a lot because it helps remind you that you are not alone in those feelings/thoughts/circumstances. Someone out there has been in a similar place and in a weird way you can feel a bond to the writer. Obviously this doesn't happened with every song I listen to, but when it happens those are the songs I play the most. Not because they are the best musically or even lyrically, but because of that connection.