Opening Day is in a week: Julian Tavarez couldnt wait to get suspended...

[mikeford]

Fists flying ...
By Gordon Edes, Globe Staff

For the second straight day, the Red Sox were involved in a bench-clearing incident in a spring training game.

In the top of the eighth, Sox reliever Julian Tavarez threw a punch at Devil Rays outfielder Joey Gathright after he slid into home plate (with Tavarez covering). Tavarez connected with a right to Gathright's chin.

After having hit a batter, enduring an error behind him and committing another himself in the inning, Tavarez was already irritated at the time of the incident.

Here’s how it went down ...

After the two fielding mistakes by the Sox, Tavarez’s first pitch to Julio Lugo was high and tight. With Gathright already on second base, Lugo went on to get a hit, but got caught between first and second.

Recognizing they had Lugo in a pickle, Sox catcher Ken Huckaby ran out toward him while keeping an eye on Gathright, who had moved to third and was partway down the third base line.

Huckaby threw to infielder Zach Borowiak to try to nab Lugo. When he did, Gathright broke to the plate, forcing Tavarez to cover home. Borowiak threw to Tavarez, Gathright slid, and Tavarez tagged him (Tavarez might have gotten spiked).

Tavarez then connected with a punch, and players rushed the field. Jonathan Papelbon came running out from the bullpen, and he and Papa Jack pulled Gathright out of the scrum.

Devil Rays outfielder Carl Crawford and Gathright were gesturing toward the Sox dugout, but there were no other incidents (though we believe Tavarez was yelling from the dugout).

In the bottom of the eighth, newly acquired Red Sox first baseman Hee-Seop Choi was plunked by Rays pitcher Wayne Franklin, and the umps warned both sides.

The Red Sox and Devil Rays, of course, have a history of bench-clearing incidents.

More details and quotes to come ...

[LeftWideOpen]

nice to see these new guys auditioning for the WWE ...none of them have shit on Varitek and Kapler though.

[Yankees' #1 Fan]

the pictures of it are hilarious

[Doug]

he punches like a girl

[rcrook]

the pictures of it are hilarious

give me the link of these pics

[LeftWideOpen]

give me the link of these pics

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/gallery/03_27_06_sox_rays/

[mikeford]

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/BDD_3.27_down_goes_gath.jpghttp://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/BDD_3.27._tavar_one_ap.jpghttp://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/BDD_3.27._tavar_two_ap.jpg

[underthetalking]

Tavarez is a piece of shit.

[jaimej]

Hahahaha hilarious.

[Chriz2z]

Sissy swing.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

cut him. they dont need anymore brawls or crazy people on the team. im glad they tackled him.

[mikeford]

cut him. they dont need anymore brawls or crazy people on the team. im glad they tackled him.

are you fucking kidding me?

[ThriftWhore]

wow man. he decked him.

best is where he's like standing over him like "what son?"

[LeftWideOpen]

cut him. they dont need anymore brawls or crazy people on the team. im glad they tackled him.

yeah that wouldnt be smart.

[mikeford]

this guy fucking rules...

Cuddly – 1995
20-year old Julian Tavarez first appeared in 1993 and his big break on the major league scene came as the fireballing hurler played a key role for the 1995 American League Champion Cleveland Indians (http://indians.scout.com/). The Dominican captured the fancy of America because the only English word he knew was “chicken”. Soon enough, Tavarez learned the language so well that he would conduct interviews himself.
Crazy - 1996
It didn’t take long for things to go wrong. Tavarez apparently selected the wrong role model in Cleveland. In 1996, defending teammate and one of the most disciplined players ever, Albert Belle, led Tavarez to his first suspension. It was for body-slamming an umpire. Of course, from Julian’s perspective, it was an unfortunate accident.
Belle was angry at getting hit by a pitch. He took it out via a forearm to Milwaukee Brewers (http://brewers.scout.com/)’ second baseman Fernando Vina (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1771999)’s face. After Belle and Tavarez spoke between innings, Tavarez threw behind Brewers’ catcher Mike Matheny (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1775269), who charged the mound.
In the melee that followed, umpire Joe Brinkman grabbed Tavarez from behind and was thrown to the turf. Tavarez insisted he didn’t know it was an ump, but still served five games.
Crazy – 1998
By now, Tavarez had been shipped to the San Francisco Giants (http://sfgiants.scout.com/). In a September, 1998 game, Tavarez took exception to ball four call by throwing his glove to the turf and yelling at the home plate umpire. He flung his cap toward home plate and headed toward the ump, wildly gesturing. Manager Dusty Baker had to pull Tavarez away from his chest-to-chest bumping of the ump, Sam Holbrook. A three-game suspension ensued.
Crazy – 1999
After allowing six runs in an outing against Oakland, Tavarez drilled catcher Mike Macfarlane in the back with a pitch. As Macfarlane was lying on the ground in pain, Tavarez stared down A’s manager Art Howe until Baker had to come out and remove Tavarez from the game.
Crazy - 2001
Tavarez had been waived by the Giants and passed through Colorado before moving on to the Cubs. He quickly fit right in, fighting with Giant Russ Davis, and inciting a bench-clearing brawl - during a spring training game! Tavarez took a flying kick at Davis, who had charged the mound after taking exception to what he felt was Tavarez taunting him after a strikeout. Five more games on the pines for Julian.
Crazy – 2001
Before Tavarez could serve the above suspension, his Cubs team had an April series in San Francisco. The Giants fans gave him a hard time and instead of turning the other cheek, Tavarez yelled back. Among his on-the-record comments about his former teams’ fans was a John Rocker-esque declaration that “they are a bunch of a-holes and ***gots.” Bud Selig called the comments “reprehensible”. Tavarez justified it in his mind by complaining that the fans threw eggs at him. The only additional punishment meted out was that Tavarez was ordered to undergo sensitivity training.
Cuddly – 2001
On the bench in Chi-town, Tavarez poured rubbing alcohol onto a towel, which he wiped on his head in an apparent attempt to remain cool. However, he may have gone too far when he slipped behind no-nonsense manager Don Baylor and shoved the smelly towel under Baylor’s nose. Tavarez was soon traded to Florida.
Cuddly – 2002
In a close game while pitching for the Marlins, Tavarez stepped into the batters box against Colorado’s Mike Hampton (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1773617). Oddly, the right-hander came up as a left-handed hitter. He swung and missed at the first pitch before moving to the other side of the plate, from where he promptly blooped an RBI single.
Crazy – 2003
Now with the Pittsburgh Pirates (http://pirates.scout.com/), Tavarez came out of the bullpen to escalate a fight that was in the process of cooling off between Tampa Bay’s Marlon Anderson (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1888744) and Tavarez’ teammate Jason Kendall (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1639306). Tavarez admitted to throwing punches, but accused an unidentified Tampa player of choking him from behind. Seems like it is a bad idea to come up behind him. A three-game suspension ensued.
Crazy – 2003
Still angry over an incident where they feared a Tavarez pitch had broken the arm of first baseman J.T. Snow, Giants manager Felipe Alou mentioned what to that point had been an unspoken assumption – that Tavarez has a history of beaning ex-teammates.
Crazy – 2003
After Tavarez hit him with a pitch, Atlanta Braves (http://braves.scout.com/) outfielder Gary Sheffield (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1771945) glared while slowly walking to first. He carried his bat the entire 90 feet and only gave it up upon reaching the first base bag.
Cheat - 2003
In a signal of problems to come, later that season, Alou strongly intimated that he knew that Tavarez was wearing a cap with pine tar on it. Alou did not publicly press the matter, however.
Cheat – 2004
Despite repeated warnings about his practice of keeping pine tar on his cap, Tavarez continued to flaunt the rules – until Lloyd McClendon’s Pittsburgh Pirates called him on it. Despite Tavarez having thrown the evidence, his dirty cap, into the stands, he was served with a ten-game suspension handed down by Watson.
Crazy – 2004
In the NLCS, Tavarez is quoted as saying the Astros aren’t that special and then fired a pitch up near Jeff Bagwell (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1772780)’s head. That generated a bench clearing and a fine for Tavarez. In a childish fit of rage, Tavarez breaks his hand on a bullpen phone, damaging his team’s World Series aspirations.
In closing
It remains to be seen what the ramifications of Tavarez’ most recent actions will be in terms of his relationship with his manager, teammates and the Mets, let alone Watson and the MLB disciplinarians. But it is clear that with Tavarez, nothing will change as a result.

[LeftWideOpen]

http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/436721.html

The trouble-making history of Julian Tavarez .....an interesting read.

[weezer182]

he is a douche

[LeftWideOpen]

this guy fucking rules...

Cuddly – 1995
20-year old Julian Tavarez first appeared in 1993 and his big break on the major league scene came as the fireballing hurler played a key role for the 1995 American League Champion Cleveland Indians (http://indians.scout.com/). The Dominican captured the fancy of America because the only English word he knew was “chicken”. Soon enough, Tavarez learned the language so well that he would conduct interviews himself.
Crazy - 1996
It didn’t take long for things to go wrong. Tavarez apparently selected the wrong role model in Cleveland. In 1996, defending teammate and one of the most disciplined players ever, Albert Belle, led Tavarez to his first suspension. It was for body-slamming an umpire. Of course, from Julian’s perspective, it was an unfortunate accident.
Belle was angry at getting hit by a pitch. He took it out via a forearm to Milwaukee Brewers (http://brewers.scout.com/)’ second baseman Fernando Vina (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1771999)’s face. After Belle and Tavarez spoke between innings, Tavarez threw behind Brewers’ catcher Mike Matheny (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1775269), who charged the mound.
In the melee that followed, umpire Joe Brinkman grabbed Tavarez from behind and was thrown to the turf. Tavarez insisted he didn’t know it was an ump, but still served five games.
Crazy – 1998
By now, Tavarez had been shipped to the San Francisco Giants (http://sfgiants.scout.com/). In a September, 1998 game, Tavarez took exception to ball four call by throwing his glove to the turf and yelling at the home plate umpire. He flung his cap toward home plate and headed toward the ump, wildly gesturing. Manager Dusty Baker had to pull Tavarez away from his chest-to-chest bumping of the ump, Sam Holbrook. A three-game suspension ensued.
Crazy – 1999
After allowing six runs in an outing against Oakland, Tavarez drilled catcher Mike Macfarlane in the back with a pitch. As Macfarlane was lying on the ground in pain, Tavarez stared down A’s manager Art Howe until Baker had to come out and remove Tavarez from the game.
Crazy - 2001
Tavarez had been waived by the Giants and passed through Colorado before moving on to the Cubs. He quickly fit right in, fighting with Giant Russ Davis, and inciting a bench-clearing brawl - during a spring training game! Tavarez took a flying kick at Davis, who had charged the mound after taking exception to what he felt was Tavarez taunting him after a strikeout. Five more games on the pines for Julian.
Crazy – 2001
Before Tavarez could serve the above suspension, his Cubs team had an April series in San Francisco. The Giants fans gave him a hard time and instead of turning the other cheek, Tavarez yelled back. Among his on-the-record comments about his former teams’ fans was a John Rocker-esque declaration that “they are a bunch of a-holes and ***gots.” Bud Selig called the comments “reprehensible”. Tavarez justified it in his mind by complaining that the fans threw eggs at him. The only additional punishment meted out was that Tavarez was ordered to undergo sensitivity training.
Cuddly – 2001
On the bench in Chi-town, Tavarez poured rubbing alcohol onto a towel, which he wiped on his head in an apparent attempt to remain cool. However, he may have gone too far when he slipped behind no-nonsense manager Don Baylor and shoved the smelly towel under Baylor’s nose. Tavarez was soon traded to Florida.
Cuddly – 2002
In a close game while pitching for the Marlins, Tavarez stepped into the batters box against Colorado’s Mike Hampton (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1773617). Oddly, the right-hander came up as a left-handed hitter. He swung and missed at the first pitch before moving to the other side of the plate, from where he promptly blooped an RBI single.
Crazy – 2003
Now with the Pittsburgh Pirates (http://pirates.scout.com/), Tavarez came out of the bullpen to escalate a fight that was in the process of cooling off between Tampa Bay’s Marlon Anderson (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1888744) and Tavarez’ teammate Jason Kendall (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1639306). Tavarez admitted to throwing punches, but accused an unidentified Tampa player of choking him from behind. Seems like it is a bad idea to come up behind him. A three-game suspension ensued.
Crazy – 2003
Still angry over an incident where they feared a Tavarez pitch had broken the arm of first baseman J.T. Snow, Giants manager Felipe Alou mentioned what to that point had been an unspoken assumption – that Tavarez has a history of beaning ex-teammates.
Crazy – 2003
After Tavarez hit him with a pitch, Atlanta Braves (http://braves.scout.com/) outfielder Gary Sheffield (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1771945) glared while slowly walking to first. He carried his bat the entire 90 feet and only gave it up upon reaching the first base bag.
Cheat - 2003
In a signal of problems to come, later that season, Alou strongly intimated that he knew that Tavarez was wearing a cap with pine tar on it. Alou did not publicly press the matter, however.
Cheat – 2004
Despite repeated warnings about his practice of keeping pine tar on his cap, Tavarez continued to flaunt the rules – until Lloyd McClendon’s Pittsburgh Pirates called him on it. Despite Tavarez having thrown the evidence, his dirty cap, into the stands, he was served with a ten-game suspension handed down by Watson.
Crazy – 2004
In the NLCS, Tavarez is quoted as saying the Astros aren’t that special and then fired a pitch up near Jeff Bagwell (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=321&p=8&c=1&nid=1772780)’s head. That generated a bench clearing and a fine for Tavarez. In a childish fit of rage, Tavarez breaks his hand on a bullpen phone, damaging his team’s World Series aspirations.
In closing
It remains to be seen what the ramifications of Tavarez’ most recent actions will be in terms of his relationship with his manager, teammates and the Mets, let alone Watson and the MLB disciplinarians. But it is clear that with Tavarez, nothing will change as a result.

haha damn ..i just posted the same thing.

[mikeford]

he is a douche

youre just mad cuz he called san fran and their fans a bunch of brokeback mountaineers.

[weezer182]

youre just mad cuz he called san fran and their fans a bunch of brokeback mountaineers.I'm not mad, I just think he is a joke

[Emopunkthrice]

haha did hear that Gathright said he punches like a girl.

[mikeford]

i mean, he punched like that cuz he was trying not to break his hand.

[Yankees' #1 Fan]

i love him

[ActorInThisPlay]

youre just mad cuz he called san fran and their fans a bunch of brokeback mountaineers.
i think the article pretty much explains why a lot of people hate him...

[Yankees' #1 Fan]

you know what tavarez is gonna do, hes just gonna give a kiss to all tha hataz

[JIMMYateEARTH]

i mean, he punched like that cuz he was trying not to break his hand.

Exactly, He learned his lesson when he punched the water cooler and broke his hand (this was in the playoffs 2 yrs ago). Now that was some funny shit. But all and all I like this guy, I wish the Cardinals wouldn't have traded him.

[mikeford]

Exactly, He learned his lesson when he punched the water cooler and broke his hand (this was in the playoffs 2 yrs ago). Now that was some funny shit. But all and all I like this guy, I wish the Cardinals wouldn't have traded him.

it was a bullpen phone.

[JIMMYateEARTH]

[quote=mikeford]it was a bullpen phone.[/q

I think it was the Water Cooler, but I could be thinkin of another inncident.



The best pitcher fight ever though was Nolan Ryan when he put that guy (for the life of me I can't think of his name right now) in a head lock and beat him sinceless. I saw that live, (on TV), and it has to be favorite sports moment ever witnessed.

[crit]

he punched that phone harder than be punched gathright.

[mikeford]

it was a bullpen phone.

I think it was the Water Cooler, but I could be thinkin of another inncident.



The best pitcher fight ever though was Nolan Ryan when he put that guy (for the life of me I can't think of his name right now) in a head lock and beat him sinceless. I saw that live, (on TV), and it has to be favorite sports moment ever witnessed.

its in the article i posted.

it was the bullpen phone.

[JIMMYateEARTH]

he punched that phone harder than be punched gathright.

cause he broke his hand and then pitched like Shit. Plus its the start of the season now is not the time to break a hand.

[JIMMYateEARTH]

its in the article i posted.

it was the bullpen phone.

I'm not arguing I just thought it was the Cooler, but your right it was. I can remember him doing it now. However I can't remember who did this but it was awesome when that guy started to whale on the water cooler with a baseball bat. Now that is what I call anger management.

[Drew Beringer]

I hate the Red Sox.

[ThriftWhore]

I wish there was video of it(unless there is, and i'm just retarded).

[mikeford]

I wish there was video of it(unless there is, and i'm just retarded).

i dont think the game was televised at all so i doubt there will be any videos

i havent found one yet, anyhow.

[mikeford]

I'm not arguing I just thought it was the Cooler, but your right it was. I can remember him doing it now. However I can't remember who did this but it was awesome when that guy started to whale on the water cooler with a baseball bat. Now that is what I call anger management.

paul oniell was famous for that

[ActorInThisPlay]

[quote=mikeford]it was a bullpen phone.[/q

I think it was the Water Cooler, but I could be thinkin of another inncident.



The best pitcher fight ever though was Nolan Ryan when he put that guy (for the life of me I can't think of his name right now) in a head lock and beat him sinceless. I saw that live, (on TV), and it has to be favorite sports moment ever witnessed.
it was Robin Ventura and Nolan Ryan kicked his ass...it was so sweet.

[bigmike]

I'm not arguing I just thought it was the Cooler, but your right it was. I can remember him doing it now. However I can't remember who did this but it was awesome when that guy started to whale on the water cooler with a baseball bat. Now that is what I call anger management.
i remember it was a dodger pitcher. wasn't it odalis perez?

[bigmike]

[quote=mikeford]it was a bullpen phone.[/q

I think it was the Water Cooler, but I could be thinkin of another inncident.



The best pitcher fight ever though was Nolan Ryan when he put that guy (for the life of me I can't think of his name right now) in a head lock and beat him sinceless. I saw that live, (on TV), and it has to be favorite sports moment ever witnessed.
Senseless. the word is spelled "senseless".

[NetNerdsRevenge]

yeah that wouldnt be smart.
Unless youre speaking of monetary issues, get rid of him. You think this wont come up again during the season? Who is going to get suspended or injured this time?

[mikeford]

Unless youre speaking of monetary issues, get rid of him. You think this wont come up again during the season? Who is going to get suspended or injured this time?

how can you not value having a crazy person on the team?

[NetNerdsRevenge]

how can you not value having a crazy person on the team?
because I value the safety of other players. This is not his first time, and probably wont be the last. Find someone else to take his place.

[mikeford]

oh come on.

the safety of other players? give me a break. its not like he set some dudes on fire like ugeth urbina.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

He could of broke his hand. Manny or Ortiz could take a fastball from Kazmir to the head. Do you remember what happen to Nixon in 04 after the A-rod fight? He went back on the DL.

[mikeford]

He could of broke his hand. Manny or Ortiz could take a fastball from Kazmir to the head. Do you remember what happen to Nixon in 04 after the A-rod fight? He went back on the DL.

he swung like a girl in order to NOT break his hand.

[histrionics22]

he swung like a girl in order to NOT break his hand.

Tavarez is worthless. He'll be suspended all year for never wiping the pine tar off his hat.

[LeftWideOpen]

Unless youre speaking of monetary issues, get rid of him. You think this wont come up again during the season? Who is going to get suspended or injured this time?

You aren't going to find anyone on the market that can pitch like Tavarez ...he's a valuable reliever, douchebag or no douchebag. I can get over an incident like this as long as the guy keeps it between the lines .....cause christ, if you wanna get rid of idiots than Curt Schilling and David Wells would be the first two out the door. I'll take a hot tempered lunatic over a loud mouth clubhouse cancer all the time.

[bobbo8]

Waste of money. He's going to cause more problems than Manny.

[mikeford]

i cant believe all you tavarez haters. i cant wait for you to choke on your words.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

You aren't going to find anyone on the market that can pitch like Tavarez ...he's a valuable reliever, douchebag or no douchebag. I can get over an incident like this as long as the guy keeps it between the lines .....cause christ, if you wanna get rid of idiots than Curt Schilling and David Wells would be the first two out the door. I'll take a hot tempered lunatic over a loud mouth clubhouse cancer all the time.
Tavarez's actions are going to go a long way compared to what Schill or Wells do in a club house. Starting a fight like this is not good for the Red Sox, and neither is a club house cancer, thats true, but Schilling nor Wells will ever throw a pitch at a Sox players head. And if youre going to name cancers, why not stick Manny in there. His up and down cannot be good for the team either.

i cant believe all you tavarez haters. i cant wait for you to choke on your words
Which words are we going to choke on? I haven't once said he was not a good pitcher. I dont care how he pitches, the Red Sox dont need someone who could potentially start a war, regardless on how well he pitches. Thats my feeling now, and will be at the end of the season.

[LeftWideOpen]

Tavarez's actions are going to go a long way compared to what Schill or Wells do in a club house. Starting a fight like this is not good for the Red Sox, and neither is a club house cancer, thats true, but Schilling nor Wells will ever throw a pitch at a Sox players head. And if youre going to name cancers, why not stick Manny in there. His up and down cannot be good for the team either.


Which words are we going to choke on? I haven't once said he was not a good pitcher. I dont care how he pitches, the Red Sox dont need someone who could potentially start a war, regardless on how well he pitches. Thats my feeling now, and will be at the end of the season.

ted williams spit at Boston fans and gave them the finger countless times ..one incident even prompted the Massachusetts Legislature to make a bill banning athletes from spitting on fans ..

should we have gotten rid of him?? If they win games, that's what matters. Tavarez will help win games.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

ted williams spit at Boston fans and gave them the finger countless times ..one incident even prompted the Massachusetts Legislature to make a bill banning athletes from spitting on fans ..

should we have gotten rid of him?? If they win games, that's what matters. Tavarez will help win games.
ok first of all, the difference between Williams and Taveraz is huge. The situation with Williams is a lot different than Taveraz. And second, Im not advocating that the sox get rid of every "cancer" in the club house. Taveraz fueled a fire with enough fuel on it. Im speaking of safety. I see it right now, the sox and rays get into a brawl and someone gets hurt. And im also not advocating the sox dump every player who fights , but dump the guy who is a loose cannon.

[LeftWideOpen]

ok first of all, the difference between Williams and Taveraz is huge. The situation with Williams is a lot different than Taveraz. And second, Im not advocating that the sox get rid of every "cancer" in the club house. Taveraz fueled a fire with enough fuel on it. Im speaking of safety. I see it right now, the sox and rays get into a brawl and someone gets hurt. And im also not advocating the sox dump every player who fights , but dump the guy who is a loose cannon.

williams was disturbed ...just like tavarez is. just like jim rice was. are we to say that you need to be a superstar in order to cause a distraction? that's all this comes down to ...tavarez being a distraction to the team. you gotta take the good w/ the bad in some cases and tavarez is one of them. i don't have trouble putting up with a distraction or two if a guy pitches 70 or 80 innings and has an era around 3.00 or below because the benefits outweigh the risks. Whether or not he's a douchebag should have no bearing in deciding his future with the sox, and it won't.

[mikeford]

dump him for who?

name someone whos available thats better than tavarez

you cant.

[LeftWideOpen]

dump him for who?

name someone whos available thats better than tavarez

you cant.

exactly. maybe we can get way back wasdin???

/sarcasm

[NetNerdsRevenge]

williams was disturbed
Williams didnt exactly have a love relationship with Boston. But its not about that, it never has been about that. Its about the safety of the players on this team and with the blood feud between Tampa and Boston, Taveraz is fueling a fire. Its not about distraction, so no, it doesnt come down to that. Its about the safety of this team right now, not about players in the past.

And can you tell me Tavarez's role on the Sox? You figure Paps, Timlin, and Foulke are the top three. Foulke goes down and you still have Paps and Timlin 8 and 9 with guys in AAA ready to come up. Depth is important, but to me Tavarez is a nut case who could get someone seriously injured.

[LeftWideOpen]

Williams didnt exactly have a love relationship with Boston. But its not about that, it never has been about that. Its about the safety of the players on this team and with the blood feud between Tampa and Boston, Taveraz is fueling a fire. Its not about distraction, so no, it doesnt come down to that. Its about the safety of this team right now, not about players in the past.

And can you tell me Tavarez's role on the Sox? You figure Paps, Timlin, and Foulke are the top three. Foulke goes down and you still have Paps and Timlin 8 and 9 with guys in AAA ready to come up. Depth is important, but to me Tavarez is a nut case who could get someone seriously injured.

these are grown men. they don't need to be protected from one another, especially since they are teammates. i'm not condoning Tavarez behavior, but it can be put up with considering what good he can bring to the team. The Sox can be a good bullpen without him, but a dominant bullpen with him.

Releasing him means you open up a hole in the pitching staff and when manny delcarmen walks the bases loaded in the top of the 7th or 8th in a tie ball game because he doesn't have command of his pitches yet, the majority of sox fans are going to wish they had tavarez. He isnt going anywhere and justifiably so.

[bigmike]

i cant believe all you tavarez haters. i cant wait for you to choke on your words.
I liked what he did. it's about time pitchers reached down and found they had nuts. too many pitchers love to start shit and then never finish it. I like tavarez.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

these are grown men. they don't need to be protected from one another, especially since they are teammates. i'm not condoning Tavarez behavior, but it can be put up with considering what good he can bring to the team. The Sox can be a good bullpen without him, but a dominant bullpen with him.
But his behavior can still cause injury to someone else, even a sox teammate

Releasing him means you open up a hole in the pitching staff and when manny delcarmen walks the bases loaded in the top of the 7th or 8th in a tie ball game because he doesn't have command of his pitches yet, the majority of sox fans are going to wish they had tavarez. He isnt going anywhere and justifiably so.
Tavarez doesn't have a very good career K/BB rate either. Besides, who says MDC fills in for him?

[mikeford]

delcarmen got sent to AAA so thats not happening.

[bigmike]

But his behavior can still cause injury to someone else, even a sox teammate


Tavarez doesn't have a very good career K/BB rate either. Besides, who says MDC fills in for him?
int he article of his career incidents, it's obvious that he doesn't hurt his teammates until he get's to another team. so the sox are safe until he pitches for baltimore or something. then it's baseballs into sox player's temples.

[Frank Giaramita]

Tavarez is a scum bag who should catch the next flight back to the Dominican Republic. End of story.

[Frank Giaramita]

You aren't going to find anyone on the market that can pitch like Tavarez ...he's a valuable reliever, douchebag or no douchebag. I can get over an incident like this as long as the guy keeps it between the lines .....cause christ, if you wanna get rid of idiots than Curt Schilling and David Wells would be the first two out the door. I'll take a hot tempered lunatic over a loud mouth clubhouse cancer all the time.
A while back, this what the Philadelphia Eagles fans said about Terrell Owens...^^^

[bigmike]

That's what the Philadelphia Eagles said about Terrel Owens
so you're comparing julian tavarez to terrell owens? and you're being serious?

[mikeford]

.............................and my brain exploded.

[Frank Giaramita]

so you're comparing julian tavarez to terrell owens? and you're being serious?
Actually, 'll go on the record saying that Tavarez is about ten times worse then Terrell Owens because Owens doesn't have a history of violence and unnecessary aggression, on top of his big mouth...like Tavarez does. Also, to clear up your above question, I'm not comparing the two players so much as I'm comparing their abilities to infect and poison an entire franchise, because that was the issue brought up.

Tavarez has SERIOUS issues, and when I mean SERIOUS, I mean something clearly isn't right in the guy's head. Whether he was beat as a child, or picked on in class, I don't know, but he's not all there and he's going to seriously hurt someone. If you, or anyone else, is willing to say "Well, I don't care if he's a psychotic over-aggressive self-cenetered nutjob, I just care if he's a good pitcher" then you're setting yourself up for the same crap that happened in Philadelphia. Don't make it seem like it's far fetched and completely impossible for one player to infect an entire franchise, because Tavarez has every personallity trait to do that, just like Owens did/does.

[bigmike]

Actually, 'll go on the record saying that Tavarez is about ten times worse then Terrell Owens because Owens doesn't have a history of violence and unnecessary aggression, on top of his big mouth...like Tavarez does. Also, to clear up your above question, I'm not comparing the two players so much as I'm comparing their abilities to infect and poison an entire franchise, because that was the issue brought up.

Tavarez has SERIOUS issues, and when I mean SERIOUS, I mean something clearly isn't right in the guy's head. Whether he was beat as a child, or picked on in class, I don't know, but he's not all there and he's going to seriously hurt someone. If you, or anyone else, is willing to say "Well, I don't care if he's a psychotic over-aggressive self-cenetered nutjob, I just care if he's a good pitcher" then you're setting yourself up for the same crap that happened in Philadelphia. Don't make it seem like it's far fetched and completely impossible for one player to infect an entire franchise, because Tavarez has every personallity trait to do that, just like Owens did/does.
so how many teams has tavarez ripped away from title hopes because he's called out the face of the franchise, the coach, the star player, etc..?

[Frank Giaramita]

so how many teams has tavarez ripped away from title hopes because he's called out the face of the franchise, the coach, the star player, etc..?
Getting suspended over a dozen times and breaking your hand when you team needs you doesn't exactly fall short of "ripping title hopes" away from teams. Neither does this:

"On the bench in Chi-town, Tavarez poured rubbing alcohol onto a towel, which he wiped on his head in an apparent attempt to remain cool. However, he may have gone too far when he slipped behind no-nonsense manager Don Baylor and shoved the smelly towel under Baylor’s nose. Tavarez was soon traded to Florida."

It may not fall into the same form of "infection" that Owens brings to the table, but you'd have to be delusional to not agree with the fact that these actions definetely don't help a team...

[bigmike]

Getting suspended over a dozen times and breaking your hand when you team needs you doesn't exactly fall short of "ripping title hopes" away from teams.
yes, breaking his hand did hurt title hopes. but according to the list of his incidents earlier in the thread he's only been suspended a total of 26 games. that's since he came into the league. 11 years ago.

[bigmike]

Getting suspended over a dozen times and breaking your hand when you team needs you doesn't exactly fall short of "ripping title hopes" away from teams. Neitehr does this:

On the bench in Chi-town, Tavarez poured rubbing alcohol onto a towel, which he wiped on his head in an apparent attempt to remain cool. However, he may have gone too far when he slipped behind no-nonsense manager Don Baylor and shoved the smelly towel under Baylor’s nose. Tavarez was soon traded to Florida.
that destroyed their title hopes?

[Frank Giaramita]

that destroyed their title hopes?
Well, the same question for you, Owens yelling at his employers and quarterback destroyed their title hopes? The Eagles had a lot of other issues besides Terrell. If you ask me, Tavarez breaking his hand alone boosts him above the level of destruction Owens has done because the Eagles CHOSE to suspend Owens' and put him in his place... it was THEIR choice, it was not the Cardinals' choice to break Tavarez's hand.

Tavarez hurts his own image, the teams' image, as well as the entire sports' image. He may not be taking direct shots at his own team like Terrell has done (outside of the phone incident, which I'll refuse to overlook), but he's sure as hell hurting them one way or the other.

[bigmike]

Well, the same question for you, Owens yelling at his employers and quarterback destroyed their title hopes? The Eagles had a lot of other issues besides Terrell. If you ask me, Tavarez breaking his hand alone boosts him above the level of destruction Owens has done because the Eagles CHOSE to suspend Owens' and put him in his place... it was THEIR choice, it was not the Cardinals' choice to break Tavarez's hand.

Tavarez hurts his own image, the teams' image, as well as the entire sports' image. He may not be taking direct shots at his own team like Terrell has done (outside of the phone incident), but he's sure as hell hurting them one way or the other.
i couldn't disagree more. tavarez is crazy, that's a sure thing. him being worse than TO, i don't think so.

[mikeford]

yes, breaking his hand did hurt title hopes. but according to the list of his incidents earlier in the thread he's only been suspended a total of 26 games. that's since he came into the league. 11 years ago.

breaking his hand didnt hurt shit.

that was the season they made the world series and the red sox pwned him.

the red sox never trailed in that series.

maybe if the cards had scored some fucking runs this would even matter.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

int he article of his career incidents, it's obvious that he doesn't hurt his teammates until he get's to another team. so the sox are safe until he pitches for baltimore or something. then it's baseballs into sox player's temples.
Until he punched a player from Tampa Bay who just happens to have beef with the Red Sox. All im saying is, if this guy is getting into it during spring training, over stupid shit, something is not right in his head and it could lead to worse things. I would love for him to calm down and never have another incident, but I think he opened a door with his actions.

I feel like I need a stat or some sort of number...

[NetNerdsRevenge]

breaking his hand didnt hurt shit.

that was the season they made the world series and the red sox pwned him.

the red sox never trailed in that series.

maybe if the cards had scored some fucking runs this would even matter.
ya, aside from the first game, the Cards had nothing in the tank. They scored most of their runs after game 1 off starting pitching

[LeftWideOpen]

But his behavior can still cause injury to someone else, even a sox teammate


Tavarez doesn't have a very good career K/BB rate either. Besides, who says MDC fills in for him?

Who else is going to fill in for Tavarez??? If not Delcarmen, it's Hansen. If not Hansen, it's Lester. All these guys are young and inexperienced and they aren't people you want to put the ballgame into the hands of in the late innings.Tavarez, antics aside, is a pretty solid pitcher. We don't have a suitable replacement for him and we'd be jeopardizing some ballgames by just cutting him loose.

If you can get a guy of equal talent for Tavarez through a trade and only give up the dustin mohr's of the world, jump on it. That isn't going to happen anytime soon though, so the Sox are going to stick with him. They knew all about his track record before they signed him. I don't see him as any more of a problem to the team than Curt Schilling, who's tapped in the head but just in a more subtle way. Tavarez may start a scrum or two with the other team, but it's better than throwing his own under the bus via the media.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

Give the farm half a year and they will be ready. Tavarez in the pen is helpful, I know that. I liked the sign when they did it, but this fight worries me and if his temper is flaring in ST over stupid shit, whats going to happen in late September when NY roles into town? What' Tampa going to do? I think if the Sox were serious about cutting him they could go Paps, Timlin, Foulke, with Riske as back up. Soon MDC, Hansen, and Lester are going to be ready for MLB. If they were serious about it, they could ride out the first half of the season and stock up for the second.

however, im acting on pure emotion, something the the front office lacks.....besides Henry.

[mikeford]

leftwideopen, you need to drop this vendetta you have against schilling, dude.

u :madfire: cuz schilling owned BC or something?

[mikeford]

Give the farm half a year and they will be ready. Tavarez in the pen is helpful, I know that. I liked the sign when they did it, but this fight worries me and if his temper is flaring in ST over stupid shit, whats going to happen in late September when NY roles into town? What' Tampa going to do? I think if the Sox were serious about cutting him they could go Paps, Timlin, Foulke, with Riske as back up. Soon MDC, Hansen, and Lester are going to be ready for MLB. If they were serious about it, they could ride out the first half of the season and stock up for the second.

however, im acting on pure emotion, something the the front office lacks.....besides Henry.

he'll probably be the one who knocks matsui on his ass and saves the series ala pedro.

[LeftWideOpen]

leftwideopen, you need to drop this vendetta you have against schilling, dude.

u :madfire: cuz schilling owned BC or something?

haha naw, i like schilling as a pitcher ..hate him as a person. but i can deal w/ him just like i can deal with tavarez.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

he'll probably be the one who knocks matsui on his ass and saves the series ala pedro.
Then I guess he can stay

[mikeford]

seriously, if anyone is gonna man up and throw at someone to change momentum in a series, tavarez would.