law school

[ZzyzxScarecrow]

anyone go? i'm strongly considering it for next year. i can knock out most of the prereqs through the local community college without paying tuition between now and then, which will save me a ton of money, and allow me to progress faster.

[silentstar1134]

I'm trying to get in, Lsats are fucking me up though. Although it's getting better...

[reachforthesun]

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202428827679&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

[silentstar1134]

Lsat again in 4 days and I just fucked up another diagnostic....FUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKKKK! !!!!!

[Chancetobe]

Lsat again in 4 days and I just fucked up another diagnostic....FUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKKKK! !!!!!

Dude, me too. I was getting between 161-163, then all of a sudden I just got horrible at reading comp. I used to get pretty much everyone question right, now I'm getting like 5 wrong. And my games suck as well. Got a 157 on the last one. Hoping that test day doesn't go like my practice tests.

[xshady121]

thought I wanted to do law school. Worked at a lawfirm for a few months a while back, started taking law specific classes and realized it was hell. At least it was in enough time to change my concentration to Urban Politics and Development.

[fightinirish217]

I'm thinking about it. I worked for a judge in my county this summer and got to see a lot of different things in law and the court system and I really enjoyed it. We'll see what happens next year, I'm only a junior now so I really gotta consider it seriously.

[SlappedActor]

thought I wanted to do law school. Worked at a lawfirm for a few months a while back, started taking law specific classes and realized it was hell. At least it was in enough time to change my concentration to Urban Politics and Development.

Could you elaborate on that a little? I've been considering law school pretty seriously recently, but I don't have much (or any) specific experience in the field.

[xshady121]

Could you elaborate on that a little? I've been considering law school pretty seriously recently, but I don't have much (or any) specific experience in the field.

I'm only in my third year of school, but my schools "thing" is 6 month paid internships. I worked at this fairly large worldwide lawfirm for the first half of this year doing pretty basic stuff, really just getting my feet wet in the field of law. It certainly isn't for me. I was miserable.

Have you taken any classes pertaining to law? How did you feel about those.

[RedWineSheets]

dont do it.

[SlappedActor]

I'm only in my third year of school, but my schools "thing" is 6 month paid internships. I worked at this fairly large worldwide lawfirm for the first half of this year doing pretty basic stuff, really just getting my feet wet in the field of law. It certainly isn't for me. I was miserable.

Have you taken any classes pertaining to law? How did you feel about those.

I've taken a few classes relating to the field of law (like Media Law), but nothing that really delves into the daily nuts-and-bolts of being a lawyer. What did they have you doing?

dont do it.

por que?

[Chancetobe]

People always say "don't do it" while they are in law school, because it sucks. But I have a feeling that once you graduate with a law degree and get hired over most anyone else, you won't have that attitude anymore.

[xshady121]

I've taken a few classes relating to the field of law (like Media Law), but nothing that really delves into the daily nuts-and-bolts of being a lawyer. What did they have you doing?


What I did was pretty mundane stuff. Started out doing rudimentary records work, by the end of my tenure I was pretty much an unofficial paralegal. A good perk of the job was making great relationships with different lawyers. I couldn't really see myself working my ass off in law school, then working my ass off for the first few years after school (some newbies were working 18+ hour days). I was already not to sure of it after taking some nuts and bolts law classes. That's just me though.

[RedWineSheets]

People always say "don't do it" while they are in law school, because it sucks. But I have a feeling that once you graduate with a law degree and get hired over most anyone else, you won't have that attitude anymore.

http://jdunderground.com/forum.php

[CaryGrant]

I'm applying within the next month or so; just took the LSAT. Essentially just think of it this way--do you want a law degree? It opens doors, but it's a lot of time, money, and energy if you're just winging it.

[Chancetobe]

http://jdunderground.com/forum.php

Ohh that is depressing. English BA/Graduate lower ranked law school can't find job. Shit. That's gonna be me in 3 years.

[Smash Adams]

I found this cool little chart, well I thought it was cool but I'm a nerd, that shows some schools that would be reasonable to get into based on LSAT scores and GPA
http://www.bc.edu/offices/careers/gradschool/law/lawlocator.html

[Chancetobe]

That says I can at least get into Case.

Ian, where are you applying?

[Smash Adams]

That says I can at least get into Case.

Ian, where are you applying?
Not exactly sure yet, mostly schools in the Manhattan area-but I really don't want to put down a definitive list before I know my scores
You have any clue?

[Chancetobe]

Not exactly sure yet, mostly schools in the Manhattan area-but I really don't want to put down a definitive list before I know my scores
You have any clue?

Dream Schools that are never gonna happen:
Fordham/Yeshiva
BU/BC
American/GW/Georgetown

Schools that seem kind of realistic, although it could go either way:
Buffalo
Case

Schools that I can def. get into but don't want to:
Insert schools you haven't heard of.

[Smash Adams]

Dream Schools that are never gonna happen:
Fordham/Yeshiva
BU/BC
American/GW/Georgetown

Schools that seem kind of realistic, although it could go either way:
Buffalo
Case

Schools that I can def. get into but don't want to:
Insert schools you haven't heard of.
American and Cardoza are on my list too, not sure about Fordham
I would never want to live in Buffalo, that would be like hell for me

[Chancetobe]

American and Cardoza are on my list too, not sure about Fordham
I would never want to live in Buffalo, that would be like hell for me

Fordham is so out of my ballpark. Kind of an absurd pipe dream. I would love either American or Cardozo, but, i don't stand much of a chance. My grades are way too low, and my LSAT's are on the lower end. As for Buffalo, i agree. But, at least it's cheap.

[RedWineSheets]

Ohh that is depressing. English BA/Graduate lower ranked law school can't find job. Shit. That's gonna be me in 3 years.

then why would you put yourself in that situation. I really suggest you research the current legal market and your realistic chances of finding a job. NY is the most oversaturated legal market in the country, it is basically impossible to find a job unless you went to a top law school and graduate near the top of your class. Think of how many law schools there are in NY. Think of how many jobs are available each year. The numbers don't add up.

[Chancetobe]

then why would you put yourself in that situation. I really suggest you research the current legal market and your realistic chances of finding a job. NY is the most oversaturated legal market in the country, it is basically impossible to find a job unless you went to a top law school and graduate near the top of your class. Think of how many law schools there are in NY. Think of how many jobs are available each year. The numbers don't add up.

Who ever said I wanted to work for a firm in NYC? I don't. But please, tell me what else I should do with an English/Poli. Sci BA, and the current job market.

[RedWineSheets]

Who ever said I wanted to work for a firm in NYC? I don't. But please, tell me what else I should do with an English/Poli. Sci BA, and the current job market.

Anything but making your situation worse by attending a low ranked law school. If you think people are giving entry level legal jobs out there like candy you are in for a rude awakening. Just look at job boards and tell me how many entry level(no experience) legal jobs are in your future area of practice and in the geographic location you want to live.

If I were you I'd become a History or English teacher.

[Chancetobe]

Anything but making your situation worse by attending a low ranked law school. If you think people are giving entry level legal jobs out there like candy you are in for a rude awakening. Just look at job boards and tell me how many entry level(no experience) legal jobs are in your future area of practice and in the geographic location you want to live.

If I were you I'd become a History or English teacher.


So, a bunch of things:
1. I don't think they give away jobs like candy but the job market in 4 years when I graduate will be different
2. I don't really want to be a lawyer, I want to do something else
3. It's not like I'll be at a tier 3 school. I should be able to make a tier 1.
4. I'm smart, and I interview well, and I can't foresee myself completely unable to get a job
5. I would kill myself before ever becoming a teacher

[RedWineSheets]

So, a bunch of things:
1. I don't think they give away jobs like candy but the job market in 4 years when I graduate will be different
2. I don't really want to be a lawyer, I want to do something else
3. It's not like I'll be at a tier 3 school. I should be able to make a tier 1.
4. I'm smart, and I interview well, and I can't foresee myself completely unable to get a job
5. I would kill myself before ever becoming a teacher


1. The legal market is making a shift. It will be better but I don't forsee it ever going back to where it was. I wouldn't bank on it being that different.
2. Why the hell are you going to law school then? You can most likely take an easier, less expensive route to the ultimate job you want. A JD closes more doors than it opens. People see JD and wonder why the hell you are are applying for a non-legal position and will not hire you because they consider you a flight risk.
3. Case and Buffalo aren't exactly tier 1( they are, but bottom of the pack)
4. If you are smart and interview well why can't you find job now?
5. Point taken.

[Chancetobe]

1. The legal market is making a shift. It will be better but I don't forsee it ever going back to where it was. I wouldn't bank on it being that different.
2. Why the hell are you going to law school then? You can most likely take an easier, less expensive route to the ultimate job you want. A JD closes more doors than it opens. People see JD and wonder why the hell you are are applying for a non-legal position and will not hire you because they consider you a flight risk.
3. Case and Buffalo aren't exactly tier 1( they are, but bottom of the pack)
4. If you are smart and interview well why can't you find job now?
5. Point taken.

To point 4, I'm not looking, nor have I graduated yet.

[Villanova1L]

So, a bunch of things:
1. I don't think they give away jobs like candy but the job market in 4 years when I graduate will be different
2. I don't really want to be a lawyer, I want to do something else
3. It's not like I'll be at a tier 3 school. I should be able to make a tier 1.
4. I'm smart, and I interview well, and I can't foresee myself completely unable to get a job
5. I would kill myself before ever becoming a teacher

1. Banking on a changing economy is risky, but it cant get must worse than it is now.
2. Don't get a JD if you don't want to be a lawyer. What purpose does it serve if not to practice law?
3. Tier 3 as best school in its market > Tier 1 in over-saturated market
4. So does 50% of my class, and most of them don't have jobs yet. Market is REALLY bad.
5. Fair enough

[Villanova1L]

Who ever said I wanted to work for a firm in NYC? I don't. But please, tell me what else I should do with an English/Poli. Sci BA, and the current job market.

Unless you're going to a top 20 school, go to a school in the region you want to practice.

[Juturna25]

im interested in law school. I hope to do well enough undergrad and on the lsat to go somewhere like uva law (ohh wishfulll thinkinggggg)

[Neo Cassady]

Every time I watch Law & Order, it makes me want to go to law school :shrug:

[RedWineSheets]

Every time I watch Law & Order, it makes me want to go to law school :shrug:

law is nothing like it is depicted on tv.

[Neo Cassady]

law is nothing like it is depicted on tv.

Of course. Same with medicine, I would imagine. But it's more the general idea of it that makes me consider it, not the TV vs. real-life details.

[silentstar1134]

I think I did ok, but I still might be lingering in the high 40's or low 50's one more shot if I feel like I can do better. 3.6 gpa and I graduated a year early so I think I have a shot with a school that only takes the best score.

[Villanova1L]

law is nothing like it is depicted on tv.

Its way more interesting. How did you not LOVE Civ Pro?

[RedWineSheets]

Its way more interesting. How did you not LOVE Civ Pro?

haha. these kids are in for a rude awakening. I almost feel bad for em.

[Chancetobe]

im interested in law school. I hope to do well enough undergrad and on the lsat to go somewhere like uva law (ohh wishfulll thinkinggggg)

Pretty sure UVA has like, an acceptance rate equal to Harvard's or something. Like for some reason it's freakishy hard to get into.

[Chancetobe]

Dear law school people, I have a few questions, maybe you guys will know.

1. I can't figure out how to add in another major in the LSAC common app? Or how to add in my study abroad school, although, I don't know that I'm supposed to put it in.
2. When they say disciplinary misconduct, would the one alchohol citation I got in freshman year count? Or do they mean more serious things?
3. I wanted to apply early to increase my chances, but, I'm wondering if it would be better to wait til' after my grades for this semester come out, because they may raise my gpa a bit. Which is the better plan?

[Chancetobe]

P.S, if anyone is curious about the me that is applying to law school:
3.122 GPA (upward trend, 2.3, 3.2, 3.2, 3.4,3.6, 2.75 (abroad semester, which sadly, i think will count in the LSAC GPA, and screw me over), and hopefully a 3.6 or 3.8 this semester. Edit: also just realized that I have to send in my grades from the random classes I took for no reason, a cornell summer course and stats course, both of which I got a b-something in. So, awesome, yet another thing to fuck up my gpa. I'll prob. somehow wind up with like a 2.5 or something.
159, first try, 161, 2nd try
Case Western undergrad, so, it's somewhere in the top 50- poli. sci and english major, minoring in public policy and econ
Extra stuff - Internship in the senate, Also internship at a label, President - Case Dems, English Honors Society, Study Abroad, Part time work since Sophomore year, some other activities that aren't that important.

I need to start figuring out where I'll be able to get in, so I don't waste all my money on reach school apps. Fairly determined to be in the Northeast (or DC), and even more preferably in a city.

[Villanova1L]

P.S, if anyone is curious about the me that is applying to law school:
3.122 GPA (upward trend, 2.3, 3.2, 3.2, 3.4,3.6, 2.75 (abroad semester, which sadly, i think will count in the LSAC GPA, and screw me over), and hopefully a 3.6 or 3.8 this semester. Edit: also just realized that I have to send in my grades from the random classes I took for no reason, a cornell summer course and stats course, both of which I got a b-something in. So, awesome, yet another thing to fuck up my gpa. I'll prob. somehow wind up with like a 2.5 or something.
159, first try, 161, 2nd try
Case Western undergrad, so, it's somewhere in the top 50- poli. sci and english major, minoring in public policy and econ
Extra stuff - Internship in the senate, Also internship at a label, President - Case Dems, English Honors Society, Study Abroad, Part time work since Sophomore year, some other activities that aren't that important.

I need to start figuring out where I'll be able to get in, so I don't waste all my money on reach school apps. Fairly determined to be in the Northeast (or DC), and even more preferably in a city.

Upward trend means essentially nothing, especially considering its barely upward. An upward trend of meaning is like 2.0, 2.3, 3.8, 4.0, 4.0 and the reason for your low scores was illness, working to support your family, etc. A relatively small increase each semester after your first semester isn't uncommon and unexceptional.

If you're LSAC GPA is 2.5 and your LSAT is a 161 and you want to practice in the Northeast I'd recommend Temple, Villanova, Rutgers-Camden, Seton Hall, Pitt, and American.

Let me know how it goes.

[Chancetobe]

Upward trend means essentially nothing, especially considering its barely upward. An upward trend of meaning is like 2.0, 2.3, 3.8, 4.0, 4.0 and the reason for your low scores was illness, working to support your family, etc. A relatively small increase each semester after your first semester isn't uncommon and unexceptional.

If you're LSAC GPA is 2.5 and your LSAT is a 161 and you want to practice in the Northeast I'd recommend Temple, Villanova, Rutgers-Camden, Seton Hall, Pitt, and American.

Let me know how it goes.

Good lord, I hope my LSAC GPA isn't a 2.5. When I counted in my study abroad grades, I had like a 3.0 - and if I even get a 3.6 this semester (although I'll probably do better) then I'll have like a 3.1. And I think breaking the 3 mark makes a difference. I also think even having something slightly upward is better than just having crappy grades all the way through. Not gonna lie, I was very proud of myself when I got a 3.6 - because my school is fucking hard. You seem so dissilusioned by law school.

But I am applying to Temple, Villanova, American and Seton Hall. Then like 5 billion other schools ranked like 50-100, and my reaches as GW Part time, Cardozo and Washington and Lee.

[Villanova1L]

Good lord, I hope my LSAC GPA isn't a 2.5. When I counted in my study abroad grades, I had like a 3.0 - and if I even get a 3.6 this semester (although I'll probably do better) then I'll have like a 3.1. And I think breaking the 3 mark makes a difference. I also think even having something slightly upward is better than just having crappy grades all the way through. Not gonna lie, I was very proud of myself when I got a 3.6 - because my school is fucking hard. You seem so dissilusioned by law school.

But I am applying to Temple, Villanova, American and Seton Hall. Then like 5 billion other schools ranked like 50-100, and my reaches as GW Part time, Cardozo and Washington and Lee.

Where did/do you go for undergad?

In your post before this you said, "I'll probably end up with a 2.5 or something," so that's what I went with, but I'll give some school based on a 3.1.

A 3.1 and 161 LSAT gives you a really good shot at:
Georgia State (under looked school)
Howard (not to mention the diversity you'd bring)
New York Law School
Penn State (climbing the all important US News Rankings)
Rutgers - Camden/Newark
Seton Hall
Villanova
and anything lower than them.

As far as reaches beyond what you wrote:
Tulane
Tennessee
Richmond
Pitt
Ohio State
Brooklyn

I've also heard that part-time programs don't have to report their GPA/LSAT to the average, so your scores might get you some longer looks there (Fordham and I think GW like you said).

I'd consider aiming for a smaller market (Atlanta, Charlotte, Richmond, Phoenix etc) with fewer schools competing for jobs than going to the 4th/5th best school in New York, Philadelphia or DC. As for Philadelphia (Villanova, Temple, Rutgers, and even Penn) job offers to summer associates was less than 45% this year, which is absolutely unheard of.

I think if you talk to the bulk of people in law school currently they are disillusioned. Such is law school, I suppose. I don't think breaking a 3.0 helps to be honest, only in that it is .1 higher than a 2.9. Every application process is very formulaic, much more so than admissions would have you believe. Schools say they look at every facet of a student to get their application money. Same holds true for LSAC giving out waivers to get their $12. A little cynicism will help you in your studies.

[tommyishere]

im interested in law but do you have to major in pre-law?
i thought it was a major in history or english? right now for applications i set my major as history

[Chancetobe]

Where did/do you go for undergad?

In your post before this you said, "I'll probably end up with a 2.5 or something," so that's what I went with, but I'll give some school based on a 3.1.

A 3.1 and 161 LSAT gives you a really good shot at:
Georgia State (under looked school)
Howard (not to mention the diversity you'd bring)
New York Law School
Penn State (climbing the all important US News Rankings)
Rutgers - Camden/Newark
Seton Hall
Villanova
and anything lower than them.

As far as reaches beyond what you wrote:
Tulane
Tennessee
Richmond
Pitt
Ohio State
Brooklyn

I've also heard that part-time programs don't have to report their GPA/LSAT to the average, so your scores might get you some longer looks there (Fordham and I think GW like you said).

I'd consider aiming for a smaller market (Atlanta, Charlotte, Richmond, Phoenix etc) with fewer schools competing for jobs than going to the 4th/5th best school in New York, Philadelphia or DC. As for Philadelphia (Villanova, Temple, Rutgers, and even Penn) job offers to summer associates was less than 45% this year, which is absolutely unheard of.

I think if you talk to the bulk of people in law school currently they are disillusioned. Such is law school, I suppose. I don't think breaking a 3.0 helps to be honest, only in that it is .1 higher than a 2.9. Every application process is very formulaic, much more so than admissions would have you believe. Schools say they look at every facet of a student to get their application money. Same holds true for LSAC giving out waivers to get their $12. A little cynicism will help you in your studies.

Case Western - our little motto here is that we have just as much work as the people at the Ivy's but none of the prestige or grade inflation.

Anyway, I'm sticking pretty strictly to NY, DC, Phili. I just don't want to be anywhere else, so I'm not even going to bother with one of those other cities. I don't particularly care if I'm at the 4th-5th best school, I'm also not aiming for a big law job.

[Villanova1L]

Case Western - our little motto here is that we have just as much work as the people at the Ivy's but none of the prestige or grade inflation.

Anyway, I'm sticking pretty strictly to NY, DC, Phili. I just don't want to be anywhere else, so I'm not even going to bother with one of those other cities. I don't particularly care if I'm at the 4th-5th best school, I'm also not aiming for a big law job.

Best of luck, keep us all posted on how the application process goes.

[Chancetobe]

All my apps are in (barring a few that I'm waiting on because I'm just not sure that I want to apply - Northeastern and Drexel b/c of the co-op and unaccredited status at Drexel, Tulane, because of location, and william and mary and bc because I just won't get in). Almost every school (except SUNY Buffalo) have said they recieved my app, and Loyola of Chicago said they would have a decision for me by Feb. 15th, so, in less than a month I'll have at least one verdict. Just figured I'd post this for the hell of it.

[Thomas Balkcom]

All my apps are in (barring a few that I'm waiting on because I'm just not sure that I want to apply - Northeastern and Drexel b/c of the co-op and unaccredited status at Drexel, Tulane, because of location, and william and mary and bc because I just won't get in). Almost every school (except SUNY Buffalo) have said they recieved my app, and Loyola of Chicago said they would have a decision for me by Feb. 15th, so, in less than a month I'll have at least one verdict. Just figured I'd post this for the hell of it.

best of luck! Still working on the application process here, housing in the fall is my biggest issue so I might have to wait until next year.

[Chancetobe]

best of luck! Still working on the application process here, housing in the fall is my biggest issue so I might have to wait until next year.
I'm not even gonna think about housing until I get all my decisions. Except I do know that I would essentially have free housing if I went to law school in DC - and my other friend goes as well (her grandma is giving her a house - an entire house!) - but, its doubtful. Honestly though, don't let housing stop you. You'll always be able to find something. And I know most schools have ways to help you even if they can't provide housing. And some schools (I know brooklyn law does) actually just promise housing.

[Thomas Balkcom]

I'm not even gonna think about housing until I get all my decisions. Except I do know that I would essentially have free housing if I went to law school in DC - and my other friend goes as well (her grandma is giving her a house - an entire house!) - but, its doubtful. Honestly though, don't let housing stop you. You'll always be able to find something. And I know most schools have ways to help you even if they can't provide housing. And some schools (I know brooklyn law does) actually just promise housing.

this certainly makes me feel better, thanks.

[Chancetobe]

this certainly makes me feel better, thanks.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know where you are applying, but, look it up. I was shocked to find a few schools actually provided housing. And the ones who didn't all had some office that hooks you up with other law school kiddoes.

Housing, when compared to the hell we'll be going though, is actually the easy part.

[Chancetobe]

Also, what is the longest it has taken you guys to receive confirmation that your application was received? I sent out my apps on Jan 7th - and most schools have said my entire file is complete, but SUNY Buffalo hasn't even acknowledged anything. Can I call if I still haven't gotten any word by Monday?

[Thomas Balkcom]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know where you are applying, but, look it up. I was shocked to find a few schools actually provided housing. And the ones who didn't all had some office that hooks you up with other law school kiddoes.

Housing, when compared to the hell we'll be going though, is actually the easy part.

I'll keep this in mind, thanks again. What did you major in for your undergrad?

[Chancetobe]

I'll keep this in mind, thanks again. What did you major in for your undergrad?
The typical. Poli. Sci and English with minors in Public Policy and econ.

[jeremyfromva]

I highly recommend the Powerscore courses over Kaplan or Princeton Review. I especially recommend the virtual classroom training, which is well worth the $995 it costs to attend. I'm applying to:

Duke
Georgetown
William and Mary
NYU
University of Pitt
Washington and Lee
University of Richmond

I had a 3.4 GPA in undergrad, but to be fair I was working full time at the same time. I think this will work in my favor, as long as I get a 168+. I think my chances will be pretty good for one of these schools with that scenario.

[Chancetobe]

I highly recommend the Powerscore courses over Kaplan or Princeton Review. I especially recommend the virtual classroom training, which is well worth the $995 it costs to attend. I'm applying to:

Duke
Georgetown
William and Mary
NYU
University of Pitt
Washington and Lee
University of Richmond

I had a 3.4 GPA in undergrad, but to be fair I was working full time at the same time. I think this will work in my favor, as long as I get a 168+. I think my chances will be pretty good for one of these schools with that scenario.
For Pitt and Washington and Lee I don't think your LSAT needs to be anywhere near as good. I applied to those two schools, and I think average for Pitt is in the 161-63 range and W&L is 164? Grades, unless they are particularly high or particularly low are almost irrelevant as long as you have at least the average LSAT.

[IAmNietzche]

Also, what is the longest it has taken you guys to receive confirmation that your application was received? I sent out my apps on Jan 7th - and most schools have said my entire file is complete, but SUNY Buffalo hasn't even acknowledged anything. Can I call if I still haven't gotten any word by Monday?
Some schools will never confirm the app. was received. They will just send out your decision letter.

[IAmNietzche]

For Pitt and Washington and Lee I don't think your LSAT needs to be anywhere near as good. I applied to those two schools, and I think average for Pitt is in the 161-63 range and W&L is 164? Grades, unless they are particularly high or particularly low are almost irrelevant as long as you have at least the average LSAT.
With Duke, G-Town and NYU on there I assume Pitt and W&L are his safeties.

[IAmNietzche]

I highly recommend the Powerscore courses over Kaplan or Princeton Review. I especially recommend the virtual classroom training, which is well worth the $995 it costs to attend. I'm applying to:

Duke
Georgetown
William and Mary
NYU
University of Pitt
Washington and Lee
University of Richmond

I had a 3.4 GPA in undergrad, but to be fair I was working full time at the same time. I think this will work in my favor, as long as I get a 168+. I think my chances will be pretty good for one of these schools with that scenario.
I'd say W&M, Pitt and Rich are likely. W&L is a definite possibility and the rest are stretches with that GPA and score.

[Chancetobe]

With Duke, G-Town and NYU on there I assume Pitt and W&L are his safeties.
The problem with what he said was that he hasn't taken the LSAT yet. And people ( at least my friends, and myself) never do as well as they think they will. So, they may not be his safeties. Also, if he hasn't taken the LSAT yet, his apps will be in crazy late, and that will hurt him.

Anyway, I got my first acceptance into Loyola Chicago today, so that was pretty exciting!

[Thomas Balkcom]

The problem with what he said was that he hasn't taken the LSAT yet. And people ( at least my friends, and myself) never do as well as they think they will. So, they may not be his safeties. Also, if he hasn't taken the LSAT yet, his apps will be in crazy late, and that will hurt him.

Anyway, I got my first acceptance into Loyola Chicago today, so that was pretty exciting!

congrats!

[Chancetobe]

congrats!
Thanks!!!

I never really know what to say to a congrats, but it feels like you have to say something.

[Thomas Balkcom]

Thanks!!!

I never really know what to say to a congrats, but it feels like you have to say something.

haha, I understand.

[thesynapse24]

I was also considering law school. Im graduating next year so I gotta make up my mind soon lol, but i ve talked to some professors at my school who have their law degree and from what they told me its pretty much like this; if your Jd isnt from a top tier( first or second) your going to have a real hard time finding a a decent position somewhere, especially one where your roi will be anywhere near the money you spent to get the law degree. . .

[Chancetobe]

Waitlisted at American, and I would love to get off it. Anyone know about the specifics? I'm planning on visiting. But should I wrote my LOCI before that, after that, or both before and after. What is the balance of showing your interest vs. annoying them?

[Villanova1L]

Waitlisted at American, and I would love to get off it. Anyone know about the specifics? I'm planning on visiting. But should I wrote my LOCI before that, after that, or both before and after. What is the balance of showing your interest vs. annoying them?

LOCI are somewhat pointless. You're ranked on the waitlist, the letter isn't moving you ahead of people with a higher LSAT/GPA or whatever their top determining characteristic.

Go visit, talk to the Dean of Admissions and tell him how much you'd like to go to school in DC. Although, going to school in a crowded legal market with top grads from much better schools also going there has never made much sense to me (NY and DC have this problem).

Congrats on Loyola Chi.

[Villanova1L]

I highly recommend the Powerscore courses over Kaplan or Princeton Review. I especially recommend the virtual classroom training, which is well worth the $995 it costs to attend. I'm applying to:

Duke
Georgetown
William and Mary
NYU
University of Pitt
Washington and Lee
University of Richmond

I had a 3.4 GPA in undergrad, but to be fair I was working full time at the same time. I think this will work in my favor, as long as I get a 168+. I think my chances will be pretty good for one of these schools with that scenario.

How'd that LSAT go?

[Chancetobe]

LOCI are somewhat pointless. You're ranked on the waitlist, the letter isn't moving you ahead of people with a higher LSAT/GPA or whatever their top determining characteristic.

Go visit, talk to the Dean of Admissions and tell him how much you'd like to go to school in DC. Although, going to school in a crowded legal market with top grads from much better schools also going there has never made much sense to me (NY and DC have this problem).

Congrats on Loyola Chi.
Every time you post, you just manage to depress me and make me think I have no future.

Can I ask about my rank? My friend and I were curious to see, because she had lower LSATs but higher grades - we wanted to know what characteristic they'd rather have.

[Villanova1L]

Every time you post, you just manage to depress me and make me think I have no future.

Can I ask about my rank? My friend and I were curious to see, because she had lower LSATs but higher grades - we wanted to know what characteristic they'd rather have.

Not posted to make you feel like that, but crowded markets where you're going to the 4th or 5th best school in the city doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you go to New York Law School and you're hoping to practice at a big firm you're behind (at least) Harvard, Yale, NYU, Penn, Columbia, Fordham, and various others. The odds of you getting a Big Law job are almost 0 unless you're in the top 5% of your class (which is almost impossible).

For DC you're behind Harvard, Yale, UVA, Georgetown, George Washington, and William and Mary. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think they'll tell you where you are on the waitlist, but you could call and check. I'm guessing based on their stats they are more concerned about LSAT. I don't see too many people with an LSAT under 160 getting in unless URM or has a GPA over 3.6.

[Chancetobe]

Not posted to make you feel like that, but crowded markets where you're going to the 4th or 5th best school in the city doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you go to New York Law School and you're hoping to practice at a big firm you're behind (at least) Harvard, Yale, NYU, Penn, Columbia, Fordham, and various others. The odds of you getting a Big Law job are almost 0 unless you're in the top 5% of your class (which is almost impossible).

For DC you're behind Harvard, Yale, UVA, Georgetown, George Washington, and William and Mary. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think they'll tell you where you are on the waitlist, but you could call and check. I'm guessing based on their stats they are more concerned about LSAT. I don't see too many people with an LSAT under 160 getting in unless URM or has a GPA over 3.6.

I'm not going for big law!!!

[RedWineSheets]

lol at ignorance of the current legal job market. I recommend you search for future jobs in the market you see yourself practicing in and see how many are open for people with your credentials. It wont be pretty. I know people from very good schools begging for NON-PAID work when they have 100 k in loan-debt.

[Chancetobe]

Ignorance and extreme pessimism are not one in the same. Please, just let me live my life and make my own decisions without bombarding me for it. I know, the both of you have made your points many a times.

[IAmNietzche]

Every time you post, you just manage to depress me and make me think I have no future.

Can I ask about my rank? My friend and I were curious to see, because she had lower LSATs but higher grades - we wanted to know what characteristic they'd rather have.
Unless you are going to Georgetown or G-Dub I would choose a school in a different city. Unless International Law is your interest and even then, G-Town grads will always get chosen first. D.C. is just too saturated.

EDIT: Oh, the point has been made.

Anyway, I'm leaning toward school in Philly despite the fact that I'm in at a better school in the New York market.

[Chancetobe]

Unless you are going to Georgetown or G-Dub I would choose a school in a different city. Unless International Law is your interest and even then, G-Town grads will always get chosen first. D.C. is just too saturated.

EDIT: Oh, the point has been made.

Anyway, I'm leaning toward school in Philly despite the fact that I'm in at a better school in the New York market.
Yeah, I'm waiting to hear from Temple and Villanova. What schools are you referring to?

[IAmNietzche]

Yeah, I'm waiting to hear from Temple and Villanova. What schools are you referring to?
NYU and UPenn. Good luck at Temple and Nova. My buddy is at Nova and he likes it alot. Their study abroad program is fantastic apparently.

[Chancetobe]

NYU and UPenn. Good luck at Temple and Nova. My buddy is at Nova and he likes it alot. Their study abroad program is fantastic apparently.
Shit, I don't think I'd pass up NYU, not even for an Ivy. NYC is kind of the place to be. Way more opportunities than Philly. And, I also can't wait to study abroad again. I'm so glad that law schools offer it.

[SHZA]

I considered it until I took a law class and realized that's not who I wanted to be.

[Villanova1L]

NYU and UPenn. Good luck at Temple and Nova. My buddy is at Nova and he likes it alot. Their study abroad program is fantastic apparently.

Study abroad program is actually wildly expensive but I've heard the classes are interesting.

Are you trying to work in NY? If so can't go wrong with NYU or Penn.

[Villanova1L]

Shit, I don't think I'd pass up NYU, not even for an Ivy. NYC is kind of the place to be. Way more opportunities than Philly. And, I also can't wait to study abroad again. I'm so glad that law schools offer it.

Penn places a HUGE amount of grads in NYC. Very few Penn grads stay in Philly.

Also, even if you aren't going for Big Law, going to an incredibly saturated market trickles down. Kids who wanted to do Big Law take middle firm jobs because big law isn't hiring, the kids whod usually do middle take small firms/public jobs, etc.

[Villanova1L]

Yeah, I'm waiting to hear from Temple and Villanova. What schools are you referring to?

Please don't come to Nova.

[Chancetobe]

Penn places a HUGE amount of grads in NYC. Very few Penn grads stay in Philly.

Also, even if you aren't going for Big Law, going to an incredibly saturated market trickles down. Kids who wanted to do Big Law take middle firm jobs because big law isn't hiring, the kids whod usually do middle take small firms/public jobs, etc.
I just mean twould' be better to live in NYC during your law school years than philly. For year round internships and the other awesomeness that is NYC. Obviously half of everyone mozy's on over when they graduate.

Please don't come to Nova.
How sweet of you.

[IAmNietzche]

Please don't come to Nova.
How do you like Nova? Good experience?

[Villanova1L]

How do you like Nova? Good experience?

Meh, new building is nice. Faculty is very intelligent. Kids are ok, just like any law school. Got an internship that I wouldn't have gotten in any other city.


Overally 7/10

[Villanova1L]

I just mean twould' be better to live in NYC during your law school years than philly. For year round internships and the other awesomeness that is NYC. Obviously half of everyone mozy's on over when they graduate.


How sweet of you.

Nova makes 0 sense for public interest.

[Chancetobe]

Nova makes 0 sense for public interest.
Ohh, I don't know if you intended it that way or not, but I very much read your comment as "you are retarded, please don't come here." But, I'm not doing public interest either. I mean, sort of. But, I think now I'm leaning towards working on the hill. Seems like a lot of the legislative assistant positions look for law degrees. Still have 3 years to figure out what I'm doing though. My life works randomly, and usually something awesome falls into my lap (not exactly, but, will come about in some random manner, or something) so, I'm not too worried. I'm just gonna see what happens with my overpriced law degree (or less overpriced degree if I go to Buffalo, which would actually be pretty darn affordable at 16k/yr tution, with a 5k scholarship, and a fairly low cost of living.)

[Villanova1L]

Ohh, I don't know if you intended it that way or not, but I very much read your comment as "you are retarded, please don't come here." But, I'm not doing public interest either. I mean, sort of. But, I think now I'm leaning towards working on the hill. Seems like a lot of the legislative assistant positions look for law degrees. Still have 3 years to figure out what I'm doing though. My life works randomly, and usually something awesome falls into my lap (not exactly, but, will come about in some random manner, or something) so, I'm not too worried. I'm just gonna see what happens with my overpriced law degree (or less overpriced degree if I go to Buffalo, which would actually be pretty darn affordable at 16k/yr tution, with a 5k scholarship, and a fairly low cost of living.)

Buffalo and then a job on the hill? Good luck. Go to the best school you get into.

Nova also doesn't do as well as their materials make them look in DC. That said a 2L is working for a Senator, however, he is a Nontraditional Student (second career) and is the exception.

If you come here plan on working in Philly or NYC.

[Chancetobe]

Buffalo and then a job on the hill? Good luck. Go to the best school you get into.

Nova also doesn't do as well as their materials make them look in DC. That said a 2L is working for a Senator, however, he is a Nontraditional Student (second career) and is the exception.

If you come here plan on working in Philly or NYC.
I used to think you needed to go to an amazing school to get a job on the hill, but apparently, it's much more about where you live, if you've interned, and how into politics you are. I interned for a Senator this summer, and half the staff went to horrible schools.

[SlappedActor]

Not taking the LSAT until June now, there was no point in taking it sooner. Graduating in the fall sucks because it delays me a year.

[SlappedActor]

Every time you post, you just manage to depress me and make me think I have no future.

I have some friends a little farther ahead than me who are in law school, and from all accounts, it's a pretty demoralizing few years. But if you can land a decent job after you get out, they'll say it was worth it. One of my friends said he hated law school and regretted going, but now he's got a secure job with a boss and co-workers he likes, and he's loving life. He's 29 and just put a down payment on a very nice house.

I'm sure that's not the case for everyone, but the general sentiment from the people I've talked to is that it gets a lot better after you get out.

[Chancetobe]

Well, has anyone made a final decision yet?

[prometheus]

check out xoxohth.com and see if you still wanna go to law school

[Chancetobe]

check out xoxohth.com and see if you still wanna go to law school
Site made me wonder how those people were smart enough to get into law school in the first place.

[Chancetobe]

Penn places a HUGE amount of grads in NYC. Very few Penn grads stay in Philly.

Also, even if you aren't going for Big Law, going to an incredibly saturated market trickles down. Kids who wanted to do Big Law take middle firm jobs because big law isn't hiring, the kids whod usually do middle take small firms/public jobs, etc.
Hey, I have a question. Do you know anything about Temple? Reputation? Quality of life? How it compares to Nova, ect, ect, ect? Basically, whatever you know, I'd love to hear.

[ohgodohnoiam]

I pretty much agree with the friend here. Law school has some ups, but overall is fairly uneventful. However, everything I have done outside of the classroom has been very rewarding and bodes well for life after school.

I have some friends a little farther ahead than me who are in law school, and from all accounts, it's a pretty demoralizing few years. But if you can land a decent job after you get out, they'll say it was worth it. One of my friends said he hated law school and regretted going, but now he's got a secure job with a boss and co-workers he likes, and he's loving life. He's 29 and just put a down payment on a very nice house.

I'm sure that's not the case for everyone, but the general sentiment from the people I've talked to is that it gets a lot better after you get out.

[Villanova1L]

Hey, I have a question. Do you know anything about Temple? Reputation? Quality of life? How it compares to Nova, ect, ect, ect? Basically, whatever you know, I'd love to hear.

Temple - city, tougher part of town, more interested in trial advocacy, more generous with scholarships, and more diverse.

Villanova - suburbs, lilly white, very stingy with money, and focus is on BigLaw.

Reputation is basically equivalent. You'll hear people argue for one or the other, but both place almost equally in big/mid firms in Philadelphia. Reach for Nova is to NY (2-3 OCI for big NY jobs), don't know about Temple.

If you're interested in public interest, Nova has a great program if you get involved early and really work at it. Heard Temple also has a very good public interest and have a friend there now as a public interest fellow or something similar.

[Chancetobe]

Temple - city, tougher part of town, more interested in trial advocacy, more generous with scholarships, and more diverse.

Villanova - suburbs, lilly white, very stingy with money, and focus is on BigLaw.

Reputation is basically equivalent. You'll hear people argue for one or the other, but both place almost equally in big/mid firms in Philadelphia. Reach for Nova is to NY (2-3 OCI for big NY jobs), don't know about Temple.

If you're interested in public interest, Nova has a great program if you get involved early and really work at it. Heard Temple also has a very good public interest and have a friend there now as a public interest fellow or something similar.
Yeah, I just saw that fellowship listing. I considered applying, but in the end I think they'd probably go with someone who had higher grades/LSATs. But, the public interest stuff and trial advocacy seemed like big things there.

BTW - thanks.

[zonto]

Considering BYU or somewhere in Washinton, probably UW.

[SlappedActor]

Here's a question: is anybody here doing the JD/MBA program, or know anything about it? I majored in English, but my math skills are strong enough that I think I could do reasonably well on the GMAT.

Does it have measurable positive consequences for your career after law school, or is it just extra work and an extra year of school with relatively little value?

[Chancetobe]

Here's a question: is anybody here doing the JD/MBA program, or know anything about it? I majored in English, but my math skills are strong enough that I think I could do reasonably well on the GMAT.

Does it have measurable positive consequences for your career after law school, or is it just extra work and an extra year of school with relatively little value?
I can't claim to know too much, but I think it depends what you want to do. Maybe if you want to do corporate it would help, or something very businessy. But, if you just want to see a straight up lawyer, I can't imagine that it would be all that helpful.

[RedWineSheets]

I can't claim to know too much, but I think it depends what you want to do. Maybe if you want to do corporate it would help, or something very businessy. But, if you just want to see a straight up lawyer, I can't imagine that it would be all that helpful.

this...also helpful if you open your own practice.

[Chancetobe]

So, basically, it has come down to Temple and Case for me. Mainly because all the schools in decent locations are too expensive. Case gave me 20k, and so far Temple gave me nothing. So, unless Temple comes through, I think I'm probably just staying where I am. Funny because I was 99.9% sure I would never, ever, ever come here. I don't know. Hopefully I'm making the right decision. Case seems to have good stats for getting people out of Ohio.

[Chuck!]

I'm taking the LSAT this June. I got a 164 on my last diagnostic but I really need to pull it up 4 points or so; my goal is UPenn, and I've read their average is 167-171. Once finals are done the second week of May, I'll have a good two or three weeks to get in a ton of prep work, I hope...

[hnama]

Kay

[Chancetobe]

Kay
Useful post is useful.

[SgtSmegma]

Seriously thinking about going back to law school, just concerned about the massive debt. Everyone I know tells me that law would be something that I would excel in, but I don't want to graduate $100k in debt and realize that I hate it.

To be honest, I'm also a bit daunted by the stories I hear of workload, etc. I was always an excellent student (graduated early summa cum laude while double majoring) but school has always come extremely easy to me. I never really had to work all that hard at it. I'm afraid I will go into it and just be blindsided. Any advice?

[Chancetobe]

Seriously thinking about going back to law school, just concerned about the massive debt. Everyone I know tells me that law would be something that I would excel in, but I don't want to graduate $100k in debt and realize that I hate it.

To be honest, I'm also a bit daunted by the stories I hear of workload, etc. I was always an excellent student (graduated early summa cum laude while double majoring) but school has always come extremely easy to me. I never really had to work all that hard at it. I'm afraid I will go into it and just be blindsided. Any advice?
Advice: you'd be amazed at how much scholarship money is available. Esp. if you apply to a school a little bit below your league (aka, your LSAT is on or above the 75%), it would be easy to get a full ride. You can also bargain with law schools for more money, I got an extra $5k just by asking. Don't let money stop you.

As for the workload, it could be hard, it could come easily. I think every law student faces the same fear, I know I do. But, you'll never know until you try, and you really shouldn't let fear stop you.

[SgtSmegma]

Advice: you'd be amazed at how much scholarship money is available. Esp. if you apply to a school a little bit below your league (aka, your LSAT is on or above the 75%), it would be easy to get a full ride. You can also bargain with law schools for more money, I got an extra $5k just by asking. Don't let money stop you.

As for the workload, it could be hard, it could come easily. I think every law student faces the same fear, I know I do. But, you'll never know until you try, and you really shouldn't let fear stop you.

Yeah, I think I'm going to go for it. I assume you're in/went to law school?

[Chancetobe]

Yeah, I think I'm going to go for it. I assume you're in/went to law school?
Nope, starting my 1L next year. So, hopefully I'll have some good advice by the time you start. Will you apply next fall? I actually feel like I can give pretty good advice for applying.

First off - take the LSAT as early as you can, so that you have time to re-take, and also apply as early as possible. Applying late can be suicide. And in law school terms, even Jan. can be a bit late. It's probably too late to do the June LSAT, but def. do October. Then if you have to retake, you can do Dec. Just make sure to have all your apps in, even without the LSAT score, so that you can go complete the second those scores are in. Sorry if this is stressing you out, I won't lie, applying is really stressful. But, once you get an acceptance it's all worth it. Anyway, feel free to ask me any questions.

[Chancetobe]

I decided to compile a list of what I've learned, for any future AP law school applicants:

- Law school, no matter what they say is really just all about numbers. LSATs more than grades, but, I would have been better off going to my State U and graduating with higher grades, than my not that amazingly ranked, but still difficult as fuck undergrad.
- Use the Bible's to study for the LSAT. Then do EARLY MORNING practice tests at least once a week leading up to the LSAT. Doing great at night doesn't mean you'll do as well in the AM. I found it was totally worth the sacrifice of sleep. Also, don't forget to use timers when practicing. It doesn't matter how many questions you get right if it takes you forever to do them.
- Don't stress out so much over the personal statement. You really are just numbers, unless you are a URM (under represented minority), you make some horrible mistake, or you are on a WL (wait list).
- If you do land on a waitlist, send a LOCI (letter of continued interest). Make it tasteful. Don't send one every day. Maybe every month or two tops. If you near the deposit deadline and still haven't heard from a school, send one. I did and it got me into one I didn't think I would get into.
- LSN (lawschoolnumbers.com)is a great predictor of where you will/won't get in. Prevents you from applying to places you have not shot at or are too good for. Use it. Don't, however, spend hours looking at it when you could be studying for your LSAT. Also, you may as well apply to a reach or two. Can't hurt.
- Don't listen to the people who say you are a failure at life if you don't get into HYS (Harvard/Yale/Stanford - the Top 3, or even the T14 (top 14)). Sure, it's fantastic if you get in. And sure you will have some more opportunities (esp. if you want a big firm or to go into politics) but, there is life beyond big law. Save yourself the stress. Be confident. Be proud of where you go. Hey - apparently 40% of people get in nowhere. So, you are a step ahead of the game. And that is just for potential lawyers. Think about how you are also smarter than a whole smattering of other professions. I say this not to sound just like the cocky HYS people, but to say, you worked hard, you are smart, be proud of yourself no matter what. Law school isn't worth compromising your confidence.
- Do Apps EARLY!!! Otherwise, you will near deposit deadlines with no responses from some schools.
- Negotiate scholarships. I never thought you could, but, you can. And it'll save you a ton of money. You seriously have nothing to lose, except perhaps your pride. But that returns after you find yourself with a bigger scholarship. In fact, the feeling is pretty darn awesome.
- Think before you apply. Think about the area, the price, the job market, the students. For me, I wish I would have considered price more when I applied. I focused solely on location, and now I realized I can't afford any good location. If I had realized just how much money 200k worth of loans is, I think where I would have applied may have changed.
- Along those lines, sometimes your happiness is better than a few rankings. USNWR is not god. That said, it still wouldn't be worth it to go to some online law school.
- Ask for LOR's (letters of rec) from old professors in Sept. They will procrastinate as long as they possibly can. Nag them. Don't feel bad about it. They get paid tons of money to teach 2-3 classes a week. They have time to write you a form letter.
- Make friends with other people applying to law school. People applying to other grad programs just don't get it. Law school will take over your life. You'll want to talk about it. Talking about it with people who aren't going through it is useless. The people who are can sometimes give good, or at least informed advice. Join www.top-law-schools.com forums. They are a wealth of info, although just like AP, they are assholes. Still, you'll also be able to meet future classmates.

[SgtSmegma]

Nope, starting my 1L next year. So, hopefully I'll have some good advice by the time you start. Will you apply next fall? I actually feel like I can give pretty good advice for applying.

First off - take the LSAT as early as you can, so that you have time to re-take, and also apply as early as possible. Applying late can be suicide. And in law school terms, even Jan. can be a bit late. It's probably too late to do the June LSAT, but def. do October. Then if you have to retake, you can do Dec. Just make sure to have all your apps in, even without the LSAT score, so that you can go complete the second those scores are in. Sorry if this is stressing you out, I won't lie, applying is really stressful. But, once you get an acceptance it's all worth it. Anyway, feel free to ask me any questions.

Thanks so much for the advice. I will definitely be coming back to you for more advice in the future, haha.

Where are you going?

[Chancetobe]

Thanks so much for the advice. I will definitely be coming back to you for more advice in the future, haha.

Where are you going?
Glad to help. And, Case Western. It's in Cleveland.

[sarahbell1219]

Could you elaborate on that a little? I've been considering law school pretty seriously recently, but I don't have much (or any) specific experience in the field.

I interned at a public defender's office and it was much more laid back than the average law firm. A lot of the attorneys in there used to work at big law companies, but all they did was work. They said that even though they got paid less, they found this job to be much more rewarding and they felt like they actually got to help people.

[sarahbell1219]

Thank you for the advice, Chancetobe! That helped me a bunch.

[RedWineSheets]

PD office, i shudder at having to work for the scum of the earth while getting paid the same wages as a hooters manager.

[Chuck!]

Anybody else take the LSAT Monday? Such a brutal logic games section...

[Chancetobe]

Thank you for the advice, Chancetobe! That helped me a bunch.
Your welcome! Glad to be of some help. I know this whole process is stressful as hell.

Anybody else take the LSAT Monday? Such a brutal logic games section...
I think the logic games section is always brutal. Anyway, scores should be almost out - how did you do?

[Chuck!]

I think the logic games section is always brutal. Anyway, scores should be almost out - how did you do?

I agree, but the consensus seems to be that it was unusually difficult this time around. Of course, that means if everyone did poorly then the weighting will be more favorable...

I did okay but I'm definitely expecting to retake in October :-(

[Chancetobe]

I agree, but the consensus seems to be that it was unusually difficult this time around. Of course, that means if everyone did poorly then the weighting will be more favorable...

I did okay but I'm definitely expecting to retake in October :-(
Then it's a good thing you took the June LSAT. My friend re-took in Dec, canceled her score and then had to re-take in Feb. She still hasn't gotten in anywhere.

What schools are you aiming for? Do you know? Did I ask you that already? I can't even remember.

Also, relevant to this thread, I just got off the Villanova waitlist. But, I'm assuming this doesn't include money, and I've already gotten my apartment at Case, so although a change of scenery would be nice and i've heard good things, I probably have to turn it down.

[Chuck!]

Yeah, I'm trying to get my application in as soon as I possibly can. I'm disappointed I'll have to wait until after October is scored

The dream is UPenn but it's pretty unrealistic. I have the GPA for T14 but I am nowhere close as far as the LSAT, so other than those I have a ton of research left to do...

I took the LSAT at Villanova, it was a nice campus!

[Chancetobe]

Like I said, lawschoolnumbers.com. Predicted my shot at every school correctly, let me figure out where I could apply. If you like PA - I really liked Temple when I visited. Minus the fact that it's in the ghetto.

And, every few points counts with the LSAT, so there is no reason you can't get into a much better school. Ohh, and I just read up and saw you were getting like 164's. On the bright side, you could get at least 2/3 scholarship at a T2 with that score. Also, my friend got into GW (which is now I think top 20) with a 3.9 and a 163. So you still have a lot of great options. Top 30 for sure is possible.

[Chuck!]

Like I said, lawschoolnumbers.com. Predicted my shot at every school correctly, let me figure out where I could apply. If you like PA - I really liked Temple when I visited. Minus the fact that it's in the ghetto.

And, every few points counts with the LSAT, so there is no reason you can't get into a much better school. Ohh, and I just read up and saw you were getting like 164's. On the bright side, you could get at least 2/3 scholarship at a T2 with that score. Also, my friend got into GW (which is now I think top 20) with a 3.9 and a 163. So you still have a lot of great options. Top 30 for sure is possible.

Got my score back last night and it was as expected--a 164 haha. I'm happy I guess, but I'll definitely be retaking in October. Had it not been for the 4th logic game I would have gotten a 167, so I feel like I can make a big improvement if I practice. Starting in August I'm going to do 3 practice tests a week and reviewing all my other materials

Thanks for all the other advice; GW is definitely a school I'm looking at. And boy would a scholarship be nice...

[tommyishere]

Im looking to go to Law school after I finish my Undergrad studies, Im going to be a freshman at Purdue next year and will be majoring in History, any advice on classes to help me to prepare for the LSAT and Law School itself?

[RedWineSheets]

Im looking to go to Law school after I finish my Undergrad studies, Im going to be a freshman at Purdue next year and will be majoring in History, any advice on classes to help me to prepare for the LSAT and Law School itself?

major in something worthwhile like engineering and skip the 100k of nondischargable debt and make bank.

[Chuck!]

Im looking to go to Law school after I finish my Undergrad studies, Im going to be a freshman at Purdue next year and will be majoring in History, any advice on classes to help me to prepare for the LSAT and Law School itself?

I don't think there's any classes that would help with the LSAT, other than Kaplan or similar courses (unrelated to coursework) that offer prep courses. For law school, take as many law classes as possible, where you learn to brief cases and analyze precedent. My school offers little more than Constitutional law material, but that's a great place to start. After a couple courses with great professors, I truly feel like I can handle law school---it's all about getting a jump on your future classmates.

[Chancetobe]

Got my score back last night and it was as expected--a 164 haha. I'm happy I guess, but I'll definitely be retaking in October. Had it not been for the 4th logic game I would have gotten a 167, so I feel like I can make a big improvement if I practice. Starting in August I'm going to do 3 practice tests a week and reviewing all my other materials

Thanks for all the other advice; GW is definitely a school I'm looking at. And boy would a scholarship be nice...
Well, a 164 is still a solid score. With more practice upper 160's is certainly do-able. Higher LSAT = more money. haha.

Ohh, and to the kid who asked how to prepare - there isn't much you can do. Just, yeah, take whatever classes offered that involve cases. Aside from that, I think so many people go to law school because there is no real prep involved. I hear sometimes a logic class is helpful on the LSAT.

[tommyishere]

major in something worthwhile like engineering and skip the 100k of nondischargable debt and make bank.

I hate math...

[Villanova1L]

Yeah, I'm trying to get my application in as soon as I possibly can. I'm disappointed I'll have to wait until after October is scored

The dream is UPenn but it's pretty unrealistic. I have the GPA for T14 but I am nowhere close as far as the LSAT, so other than those I have a ton of research left to do...

I took the LSAT at Villanova, it was a nice campus!

It is a nice building, too bad no jobs with a degree from there.

[Chancetobe]

Apparently I'm terrible at briefing cases - and mine wind up being incredibly redundant. I can read a case and understand it, and the law and reasoning behind it perfectly but then I can't brief for shit. I'm super worried. Also, apparently, I just don't think the way all my classmates do. They put much more thought/time into things than I do.

[WishYouAway]

Anybody know how the LSAC and school's look at AP credits in regards to your GPA?

Also, how do they feel about 3-year graduates?

[Chancetobe]

Anybody know how the LSAC and school's look at AP credits in regards to your GPA?

Also, how do they feel about 3-year graduates?
AP credits don't factor into the GPA. And I don't think they care much about 3 years vs. 4. It's really about whatever will make your GPA better.

[SlappedActor]

AP credits don't factor into the GPA. And I don't think they care much about 3 years vs. 4. It's really about whatever will make your GPA better.

Just wanted to see how you feel about law school thus far. I'm going through the application process this winter.

[Chancetobe]

Just wanted to see how you feel about law school thus far. I'm going through the application process this winter.
It's better than I thought it would be. The people are all really chill, most of my teachers make the material interesting, and the work is manageable. It's different from undergrad, for sure, but it's not this impossible bit of hell that everyone makes it out to be. Do you know where you'll be applying?

[VersaVulture15]

anyone go? i'm strongly considering it for next year. i can knock out most of the prereqs through the local community college without paying tuition between now and then, which will save me a ton of money, and allow me to progress faster.thats so cool!I want to go law school too..

[0s0]

thought I wanted to do law school. Worked at a lawfirm for a few months a while back, started taking law specific classes and realized it was hell. At least it was in enough time to change my concentration to Urban Politics and Development.

I think that the first year of college should be strictly general education and you also have to intern in a position relating to whatever career you wish to enter. Because seriously, when I went to college, 2/3s of the changes in major that occurred were preceded with, "I thought I wanted to do ______, so I worked at a ____________, and realized I hated it."

[0s0]

thought I wanted to do law school. Worked at a lawfirm for a few months a while back, started taking law specific classes and realized it was hell. At least it was in enough time to change my concentration to Urban Politics and Development.

Agree.

I think that the first year of college should be strictly general education and you also have to intern in a position relating to whatever career you wish to enter. Because seriously, when I went to college, 2/3s of the changes in major that occurred were preceded with, "I thought I wanted to do ______, so I worked at a ____________, and realized I hated it."

[SgtSmegma]

Glad to help. And, Case Western. It's in Cleveland.

I'm coming back for some insight from you. Any advice for preparing for the LSAT?

[Chancetobe]

I'm coming back for some insight from you. Any advice for preparing for the LSAT?
Probably mostly what I said above, but let's see:
1. Take the earliest test possible so you have time to re-take and still apply early
2. Get the Logic Games/ Logic Reasoning Bible - the best study aids I've found
3. Get a book or two of practice exams. I think it's called 10 actual LSAT's, and 10 more actual LSATs.
4. Take sections almost daily leading up to the test, then on weekends, and in the MORNING do full TIMED tests.
That's really the only advice I can think of though.

[SgtSmegma]

Probably mostly what I said above, but let's see:
1. Take the earliest test possible so you have time to re-take and still apply early
2. Get the Logic Games/ Logic Reasoning Bible - the best study aids I've found
3. Get a book or two of practice exams. I think it's called 10 actual LSAT's, and 10 more actual LSATs.
4. Take sections almost daily leading up to the test, then on weekends, and in the MORNING do full TIMED tests.
That's really the only advice I can think of though.

Yeah. I'm taking it December 11. Probably pushing it in terms of getting my scores back and applying for schools, but I didn't feel comfortable taking it this month. How long does it take to get your scores back? I'm kind of scared...ha

I appreciate the tips though. Anything else you might come up with would be appreciated.

[Chancetobe]

Yeah. I'm taking it December 11. Probably pushing it in terms of getting my scores back and applying for schools, but I didn't feel comfortable taking it this month. How long does it take to get your scores back? I'm kind of scared...ha

I appreciate the tips though. Anything else you might come up with would be appreciated.
It takes 3 weeks to get your scores back. It was an agonizing three weeks too, the only thing I could think about.

I think my main suggestion would be to get all your apps done now, before the test. Get your letters of rec, write the personal statement, fill in your address 5 million times and write the special essays (I do think these help at some schools - but I'd only bother if you really want to go somewhere). Maybe just spend the next couple weeks on it and then turn it all in and start studying for the LSAT. That way you should still be able to have all your apps in by Jan 1st, which is about when I got mine in last year. Aside from that, just breath. Granted, I haven't been through finals yet, but, at this stage of the game, applying seems a hell of a lot worse than actually being in law school.

Ohh, and do a diagnostic sample exam to help you gauge what schools you can get into now and what schools you should be able to get into after studying.

[SgtSmegma]

It takes 3 weeks to get your scores back. It was an agonizing three weeks too, the only thing I could think about.

I think my main suggestion would be to get all your apps done now, before the test. Get your letters of rec, write the personal statement, fill in your address 5 million times and write the special essays (I do think these help at some schools - but I'd only bother if you really want to go somewhere). Maybe just spend the next couple weeks on it and then turn it all in and start studying for the LSAT. That way you should still be able to have all your apps in by Jan 1st, which is about when I got mine in last year. Aside from that, just breath. Granted, I haven't been through finals yet, but, at this stage of the game, applying seems a hell of a lot worse than actually being in law school.

Ohh, and do a diagnostic sample exam to help you gauge what schools you can get into now and what schools you should be able to get into after studying.

Can you explain this credential assembly service thing? Transcripts and LORs have to go through there and then they send them to the schools I want to apply to?

[Chancetobe]

Can you explain this credential assembly service thing? Transcripts and LORs have to go through there and then they send them to the schools I want to apply to?
Yeah, pretty much. You sign up through LSAC (the people who do the LSAT). Send them everything in the regular mail. So, the LORs are usually nonspecific to schools as is your personal statement, although this I think you can upload. Then you pay them $10 to send the materials to each school you want to apply to. The application is also on there for each school, and you can fill it out electronically.

[SgtSmegma]

Yeah, pretty much. You sign up through LSAC (the people who do the LSAT). Send them everything in the regular mail. So, the LORs are usually nonspecific to schools as is your personal statement, although this I think you can upload. Then you pay them $10 to send the materials to each school you want to apply to. The application is also on there for each school, and you can fill it out electronically.

Thanks. Sorry to ask so many questions, it's just slightly overwhelming of a process

[Chancetobe]

Thanks. Sorry to ask so many questions, it's just slightly overwhelming of a process
Not even slightly. It's a very overwhelming process. And, I can't even count the number of 'dumb' questions I had while applying, so, no worries. Happy to help.

[SgtSmegma]

Not even slightly. It's a very overwhelming process. And, I can't even count the number of 'dumb' questions I had while applying, so, no worries. Happy to help.

So I've been reading jdunderground over the past couple of days and it's been freaking me out a little bit. Please tell me it's all oversensationalized and from a bunch of people who would be miserable regardless of what profession they chose.

I need some comfort

[Chancetobe]

So I've been reading jdunderground over the past couple of days and it's been freaking me out a little bit. Please tell me it's all oversensationalized and from a bunch of people who would be miserable regardless of what profession they chose.

I need some comfort

Any of those law websites are EXTREMELY oversensationalized. Lawyers are the type of people who make a big deal out of everything, make mountains out of molehills. They want to be 100% the most awesome person in the world, and god forbid they graduate 2nd in their class from Harvard they think they've failed at life. That paired with the joy they probably get at freaking other people out makes it all the worse. Just don't pay attention to it.

[SgtSmegma]

Any of those law websites are EXTREMELY oversensationalized. Lawyers are the type of people who make a big deal out of everything, make mountains out of molehills. They want to be 100% the most awesome person in the world, and god forbid they graduate 2nd in their class from Harvard they think they've failed at life. That paired with the joy they probably get at freaking other people out makes it all the worse. Just don't pay attention to it.

Thank you (even if you're lying to me). I sat in my room for like an hour tonight reading threads on there and regretting my decision to pursue law with each passing second.

[Chancetobe]

Thank you (even if you're lying to me). I sat in my room for like an hour tonight reading threads on there and regretting my decision to pursue law with each passing second.
I did the same thing when I was applying. Lots of kids do and then it just keeps spreading if you don't get it out of your head. But, if you just treat law school like something else you are doing, and work hard, but dont' freak out, it's a lot more enjoyable. And you have the same success rate as someone who has a heart attack every day freaking out.

In other news: I find myself thinking extremely odd things since starting law school. A friend told me she got raped, and after my immediate friend reaction of consoling her, I started thinking of it like a lawyer and determined that she wasn't actually raped according to the statute, and then thought "this is like a good practice exam." And then I felt like a horrible person.

[SgtSmegma]

I did the same thing when I was applying. Lots of kids do and then it just keeps spreading if you don't get it out of your head. But, if you just treat law school like something else you are doing, and work hard, but dont' freak out, it's a lot more enjoyable. And you have the same success rate as someone who has a heart attack every day freaking out.

In other news: I find myself thinking extremely odd things since starting law school. A friend told me she got raped, and after my immediate friend reaction of consoling her, I started thinking of it like a lawyer and determined that she wasn't actually raped according to the statute, and then thought "this is like a good practice exam." And then I felt like a horrible person.

Yeah, thanks. I feel much better now. I got all of those bibles, like you mentioned, and a book of official lsat tests to prep. They've been really useful, solid req.

And yeah, haha I thought about that element of going into law. Depending on what area you end up going into, you could potentially be dealing with the absolute bottommost cesspool of society on a consistent basis. That could have a dramatic impact on one's own personal perspective. I think if you're cognizant of that, though, the chances of becoming robotic are pretty slim.

[Chancetobe]

Yeah, thanks. I feel much better now. I got all of those bibles, like you mentioned, and a book of official lsat tests to prep. They've been really useful, solid req.

And yeah, haha I thought about that element of going into law. Depending on what area you end up going into, you could potentially be dealing with the absolute bottommost cesspool of society on a consistent basis. That could have a dramatic impact on one's own personal perspective. I think if you're cognizant of that, though, the chances of becoming robotic are pretty slim.
I don't think I'm robotic. But law school makes you realize your stance on things. I've realized that I am extremely lenient on criminals. I believe in second chances, and won't hold someone liable if they didn't have the purpose to commit the crime. There are other people in my class who are very tough on crime and want to get everyone. Neither stance necessarily makes you good or bad, but, when I find myself with rather little compassion for victims... sometimes I do.

[SgtSmegma]

I don't think I'm robotic. But law school makes you realize your stance on things. I've realized that I am extremely lenient on criminals. I believe in second chances, and won't hold someone liable if they didn't have the purpose to commit the crime. There are other people in my class who are very tough on crime and want to get everyone. Neither stance necessarily makes you good or bad, but, when I find myself with rather little compassion for victims... sometimes I do.

Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that you were robotic. I just meant that its a potential pitfall in the profession, I think

[Chancetobe]

Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that you were robotic. I just meant that its a potential pitfall in the profession, I think
No worries. So, do you know where your applying yet? Or need some help limiting it down?

[SgtSmegma]

No worries. So, do you know where your applying yet? Or need some help limiting it down?

Well, I know I'm going to apply for the University of Tennessee and University of Memphis. I know neither are a great school (UT is obviously better), but UT is a good school and the in state tuition is extremely enticing. The thought of $12k per year vs $30-35k per year in debt is a huge factor for me. I'm having a hard time deciding what range of schools I will be capable of getting into until I get my LSAT score.

I've been utilizing that law school predictor tool, but I'm really just giving educated guesses as to what my LSAT score will be.

Any insight would be appreciated though.

[Chancetobe]

Well, I know I'm going to apply for the University of Tennessee and University of Memphis. I know neither are a great school (UT is obviously better), but UT is a good school and the in state tuition is extremely enticing. The thought of $12k per year vs $30-35k per year in debt is a huge factor for me. I'm having a hard time deciding what range of schools I will be capable of getting into until I get my LSAT score.

I've been utilizing that law school predictor tool, but I'm really just giving educated guesses as to what my LSAT score will be.

Any insight would be appreciated though.
Yeah, that's what I did too. Just kind of played around with numbers based off what I got on my practice tests. Usually the pt's are pretty close to what you actually get within 2 or 3 points. I think I can be of more help if I knew about your LSAT, what area of the country you like, what job you want, ect.

[SgtSmegma]

Yeah, that's what I did too. Just kind of played around with numbers based off what I got on my practice tests. Usually the pt's are pretty close to what you actually get within 2 or 3 points. I think I can be of more help if I knew about your LSAT, what area of the country you like, what job you want, ect.

Yeah. I haven't taken any practice tests yet. I was going to go through the bibles and then take a couple untimed tests and then take some timed ones when I get down fairly close to my test date.

Region doesnt play a huge factor for me, except that staying in state would cause significantly lower debt for me. I would kind of like to move somewhere neat, but its not a make or break factor for me.

I havent really gotten far enough to decide what kind of job I want (which I know I probably should)

[Chancetobe]

Yeah. I haven't taken any practice tests yet. I was going to go through the bibles and then take a couple untimed tests and then take some timed ones when I get down fairly close to my test date.

Region doesnt play a huge factor for me, except that staying in state would cause significantly lower debt for me. I would kind of like to move somewhere neat, but its not a make or break factor for me.

I havent really gotten far enough to decide what kind of job I want (which I know I probably should)
Instate isn't necessarily going to be your cheapest route. If your LSAT is above the median, private schools give out tons of money.

[SgtSmegma]

Instate isn't necessarily going to be your cheapest route. If your LSAT is above the median, private schools give out tons of money.

Yeah. That's what I was going to ask. I had always heard that law schools tend to give out very little scholarship money

[Chancetobe]

Yeah. That's what I was going to ask. I had always heard that law schools tend to give out very little scholarship money
That's not true at all. It depends on the school, and your qualifications, but, pretty much everyone I know has some sort of scholarship. I'm getting about half (if I don't lose it by getting below a 3.15).

[SgtSmegma]

That's not true at all. It depends on the school, and your qualifications, but, pretty much everyone I know has some sort of scholarship. I'm getting about half (if I don't lose it by getting below a 3.15).

That's good to hear. Do you think I'd be better off going to a lower tier school where I'm able to get more scholarship money, or the best school I can get into and get saddle with a shit ton of debt?

[Chancetobe]

That's good to hear. Do you think I'd be better off going to a lower tier school where I'm able to get more scholarship money, or the best school I can get into and get saddle with a shit ton of debt?
I think its a personal choice. And it depends. If you get into Harvard, it's not worth going to a T3 for a full ride. If it's the difference between a few spots in the ranking, it might not be worth it to take on all that debt. I happened to have gotten lucky because the best school I got into also gave me the most money. I imagine though, I would have picked some middle ground. If the best school gave me no money, the lowest gave me a full ride, and a middle gave me half... I would go with the half. Unless I really thought the opportunities from the best school couldn't be rivaled. It's one of those things where you really need more definite facts than this. It makes sense to go either way, I think.

[jawstheme]

I'm taking the LSAT again in December. Studying is so much harder to get motivated for this time.

[SgtSmegma]

I'm taking the LSAT again in December. Studying is so much harder to get motivated for this time.

I'm with you, bro. Except it'll be my first time. How'd you do the first time?

[Chancetobe]

Man, I just need to be able to pay attention for like another 30 minutes to finish this portion of my torts outline... I just don't think I can do it.

[jawstheme]

I'm with you, bro. Except it'll be my first time. How'd you do the first time?

157. I bombed the games section, so I bought the Logic Games Bible. I'm just having trouble getting back into a study routine now that I work all week. I'd like to get 160+ for the schools I'm looking at. What are you looking to score? Have you taken practice tests?

[SgtSmegma]

157. I bombed the games section, so I bought the Logic Games Bible. I'm just having trouble getting back into a study routine now that I work all week. I'd like to get 160+ for the schools I'm looking at. What are you looking to score? Have you taken practice tests?

Haven't taken any practice tests. Bought all the bibles and am in the process of going through them now. I plan on taking several practice tests before the real thing and transform myself into a finely tuned LSAT taking machine.

I'm aiming for a 165. I think it's in reach

[Mesthead!]

Okay, so I'm only a senior in High School, but I'm thinking about maybe eventually becoming a lawyer.

What majors do you think prepare you best for the LSAT and Law School? (Nothing associated with science or an obsessive amount of math. I can't stand it.) Or should I just major in whatever I want to? I want to major in something that could possibly get me a job if I change my mind one day.

What type of school undergrad do you suggest going to? Do Law Schools consider how good of the school you attended was?

[jawstheme]

Okay, so I'm only a senior in High School, but I'm thinking about maybe eventually becoming a lawyer.

What majors do you think prepare you best for the LSAT and Law School? (Nothing associated with science or an obsessive amount of math. I can't stand it.) Or should I just major in whatever I want to? I want to major in something that could possibly get me a job if I change my mind one day.

What type of school undergrad do you suggest going to? Do Law Schools consider how good of the school you attended was?

English and Philosophy would be the two best, in my opinion.

[jawstheme]

Haven't taken any practice tests. Bought all the bibles and am in the process of going through them now. I plan on taking several practice tests before the real thing and transform myself into a finely tuned LSAT taking machine.

I'm aiming for a 165. I think it's in reach

Are you taking it in December? If so you should start taking practice exams now.

[SgtSmegma]

Are you taking it in December? If so you should start taking practice exams now.

Yeah I'm taking it in December. I feel like it would be more beneficial for me to go through the bibles before taking practice exams, no?

[SgtSmegma]

Okay, so I'm only a senior in High School, but I'm thinking about maybe eventually becoming a lawyer.

What majors do you think prepare you best for the LSAT and Law School? (Nothing associated with science or an obsessive amount of math. I can't stand it.) Or should I just major in whatever I want to? I want to major in something that could possibly get me a job if I change my mind one day.

What type of school undergrad do you suggest going to? Do Law Schools consider how good of the school you attended was?

A lot of people who aspire to go to law school major in political science in undergrad.

[jawstheme]

Yeah I'm taking it in December. I feel like it would be more beneficial for me to go through the bibles before taking practice exams, no?

I would do them at the same time. Every so often take a test while you're going through your books. Getting the feel of going through a timed test is one of the most important factors.

[SgtSmegma]

I think its a personal choice. And it depends. If you get into Harvard, it's not worth going to a T3 for a full ride. If it's the difference between a few spots in the ranking, it might not be worth it to take on all that debt. I happened to have gotten lucky because the best school I got into also gave me the most money. I imagine though, I would have picked some middle ground. If the best school gave me no money, the lowest gave me a full ride, and a middle gave me half... I would go with the half. Unless I really thought the opportunities from the best school couldn't be rivaled. It's one of those things where you really need more definite facts than this. It makes sense to go either way, I think.

So these diagrams and shit they are constantly going on about in the logical reasoning bible make no sense to me, but I still get the majority of the questions right. I've gotten to the point where I am just skipping over the parts where they are explaining how to diagram the problems. Should I be worried about the diagramming aspect?

[Chancetobe]

So these diagrams and shit they are constantly going on about in the logical reasoning bible make no sense to me, but I still get the majority of the questions right. I've gotten to the point where I am just skipping over the parts where they are explaining how to diagram the problems. Should I be worried about the diagramming aspect?
I think its' all about what's helpful for you. I found diagramming helpful, because it helped me not miss some stuff by making simple mistakes, but, if you can still do it, who cares?

[Specialist]

In my opinion, don't go to law school unless you really really love law. I would suggest working a staff position at a firm first. The field is way oversaturated at this point, I can tell you first hand. People always told me that a law degree opens doors, but it really doesn't. If you don't go to a top 10 school, you will be stuck in a practice you most likely don't enjoy just so you can pay off your loans, which I assure you, will be insane. I work in Midtown Manhattan, at a fairly large firm, my hours suck, the people I deal with are mostly assholes. The pay is good, no doubt, but there are plenty of days where I wish I could just quit, get a job at a coffee shop and wait for something else to come along. Unfortunately, I'm trapped by my exuberant loans.

[Chancetobe]

Hey guess what... a month before finals, and with my final memo due, law school has finally become stressful!

As for the guy above me... go to a school where you get a scholarship. Every form of higher education is expensive. Except a PHD, but those are pretty useless. And in today's world you need some sort of advanced degree to get ahead - so law school isn't much different from every other profession.

[sdbrown]

Hey-o! Law students! A question for you:

For my business law HW I have to answer a bunch of BS questions. One T/F is that you can go to jail if you are found guilty of civil assault. I don't think you can, since torts usually just award the plaintiff with $$, but is this true?

Another has a guy keeping a pet tiger. The owner of the pet tiger encloses it in barbed wire fencing 24 feet high, etc etc. Someone drives drunk and crashes through the fence, the tiger escapes and mauls the neighbor. Is the owner of the tiger negligent, or is he okay because he took all measures to ensure the tiger would not escape?

Thank you so so much if you can help. I don't know how you guys take 3 years of this stuff.

[Kyle Garchar]

I'm currently a Political Science Pre-Law undergrad with a History minor and I'm probably going to add a World Religions Minor. Probably going to be a bit of work, but completely worth it.

[Chancetobe]

Hey-o! Law students! A question for you:

For my business law HW I have to answer a bunch of BS questions. One T/F is that you can go to jail if you are found guilty of civil assault. I don't think you can, since torts usually just award the plaintiff with $$, but is this true?

Another has a guy keeping a pet tiger. The owner of the pet tiger encloses it in barbed wire fencing 24 feet high, etc etc. Someone drives drunk and crashes through the fence, the tiger escapes and mauls the neighbor. Is the owner of the tiger negligent, or is he okay because he took all measures to ensure the tiger would not escape?

Thank you so so much if you can help. I don't know how you guys take 3 years of this stuff.
Belated, but yes, you are correct. You cannot go to jail for committing a tort. The only way you could go to jail for commiting a tort is if you committed an intentional tort (assault or battery) and were charged in a criminal court, since crimes like that are both torts and criminal.

As for the tiger, we read a case like that only about a dog. I got annoyed because they said that the owner was actually negligence. But, it would depend on some stuff, like:
1. The legality or illegality of having a tiger. Why did he have the tiger? For a legitimate purpose, if so might not be negligent.
2. Is the fencing sufficient to actually keep the tiger from hurting someone? Are there caution: tiger signs? Does he have a backup plan for the fence?
3. There is clearly some contributory negligence (the drunk driver), but, it's by a 3rd person. So, I'm thinking that this would hinge upon causation. So it would have to be the but for cause - but for this guy having a tiger, the neighbor wouldn't have died. That seems to be true. But also proximate causeation - I.E - is this guy negligently having a tiger the reason the neighbor died, or was it the drunk driver? There was an intervening actor. If the intervening actor wasn't negligent, then maybe tiger owner could be liable. But since the intervening one was negligent, I think that tiger owner is not liable. However, I also think i might be combining some torts and crim.
So, I'm not 100% positive I'm right, but I think I am.

Man, I actually like this stuff. I'm in the midst of outlining for finals right now, so this is helping me with my issue spotting. For you future law students, finals are basically one gigantic story. Within that story are all sorts of applicable things. You are just supposed to notice as many of them as you can (there can literally be hundreds, the top grade in the class usually only spots about half) and then talk about them. For instance in the tiger story, you notice that there is someone inbetween doing wrong - so that would raise an issue of intervening actors (so can the first actor still be the cause, if someone else was the cause?) ect, ect. Not explaining myself well, but, it would be something to notice.

[sdbrown]

Belated, but yes, you are correct. You cannot go to jail for committing a tort. The only way you could go to jail for commiting a tort is if you committed an intentional tort (assault or battery) and were charged in a criminal court, since crimes like that are both torts and criminal.

As for the tiger, we read a case like that only about a dog. I got annoyed because they said that the owner was actually negligence. But, it would depend on some stuff, like:
1. The legality or illegality of having a tiger. Why did he have the tiger? For a legitimate purpose, if so might not be negligent.
2. Is the fencing sufficient to actually keep the tiger from hurting someone? Are there caution: tiger signs? Does he have a backup plan for the fence?
3. There is clearly some contributory negligence (the drunk driver), but, it's by a 3rd person. So, I'm thinking that this would hinge upon causation. So it would have to be the but for cause - but for this guy having a tiger, the neighbor wouldn't have died. That seems to be true. But also proximate causeation - I.E - is this guy negligently having a tiger the reason the neighbor died, or was it the drunk driver? There was an intervening actor. If the intervening actor wasn't negligent, then maybe tiger owner could be liable. But since the intervening one was negligent, I think that tiger owner is not liable. However, I also think i might be combining some torts and crim.
So, I'm not 100% positive I'm right, but I think I am.

Man, I actually like this stuff. I'm in the midst of outlining for finals right now, so this is helping me with my issue spotting. For you future law students, finals are basically one gigantic story. Within that story are all sorts of applicable things. You are just supposed to notice as many of them as you can (there can literally be hundreds, the top grade in the class usually only spots about half) and then talk about them. For instance in the tiger story, you notice that there is someone inbetween doing wrong - so that would raise an issue of intervening actors (so can the first actor still be the cause, if someone else was the cause?) ect, ect. Not explaining myself well, but, it would be something to notice.
Thanks! The question about the tiger turned out to be strict liability (or my prof said so) and I REALLY don't understand that one. Your answer makes sense. I wish we got to argue these instead this MC nonsense of trying to figure out what the answer bank wants us to answer.

[Chancetobe]

Thanks! The question about the tiger turned out to be strict liability (or my prof said so) and I REALLY don't understand that one. Your answer makes sense. I wish we got to argue these instead this MC nonsense of trying to figure out what the answer bank wants us to answer.
For real? Did it say anything about there being a law where you are not allowed to have tigers. That's the only way that answer would really make sense to me.

[IAmNietzche]

Thanks! The question about the tiger turned out to be strict liability (or my prof said so) and I REALLY don't understand that one. Your answer makes sense. I wish we got to argue these instead this MC nonsense of trying to figure out what the answer bank wants us to answer.

For real? Did it say anything about there being a law where you are not allowed to have tigers. That's the only way that answer would really make sense to me.
Keeping a tiger (wild animal) is an ultrahazardous activity and therefore the owner is strictly liable for the attack. Check out the Restatement (Second) of Torts under "inherently dangerous activity".

[Chancetobe]

Keeping a tiger (wild animal) is an ultrahazardous activity and therefore the owner is strictly liable for the attack. Check out the Restatement (Second) of Torts under "inherently dangerous activity".
Ah, that makes sense too.

[RedWineSheets]

Keeping a tiger (wild animal) is an ultrahazardous activity and therefore the owner is strictly liable for the attack. Check out the Restatement (Second) of Torts under "inherently dangerous activity".

this is the correct answer

[SgtSmegma]

Ah, that makes sense too.

Any tips for studying for the logic games part? I feel like I'll be lucky to get one or 2 of these questions right. Shit bends my brain

[Chancetobe]

Any tips for studying for the logic games part? I feel like I'll be lucky to get one or 2 of these questions right. Shit bends my brain
Uhm... the only thing I can think of is the logic games bile. - it explained stuff in a way that i go it. But, I was horrible at that part, so no other tips.

[SgtSmegma]

Uhm... the only thing I can think of is the logic games bile. - it explained stuff in a way that i go it. But, I was horrible at that part, so no other tips.

Yeah. I'm running through the bible right now. Diagramming is definitely helping, but there are still some where I'm like ?????

I take it in 2 weeks. Please pray for me

[Chancetobe]

Yeah. I'm running through the bible right now. Diagramming is definitely helping, but there are still some where I'm like ?????

I take it in 2 weeks. Please pray for me
I will pray for you and your LSAT if you pray for me and my finals. Mainly my contracts final, although I guess Torts too.

[SgtSmegma]

I will pray for you and your LSAT if you pray for me and my finals. Mainly my contracts final, although I guess Torts too.

You've got a deal. I'm fairly certain that god is a proponent of trading prayers. We are assured to have our wishes fulfilled

[Chancetobe]

You've got a deal. I'm fairly certain that god is a proponent of trading prayers. We are assured to have our wishes fulfilled
I'm not religious at all, but I sure hope that's the way it works.

[SgtSmegma]

I'm not religious at all, but I sure hope that's the way it works.

Haha I'm not either. I was trying to be tongue in cheek funny, but I guess that doesn't translate very well over the internets

[Chancetobe]

Haha I'm not either. I was trying to be tongue in cheek funny, but I guess that doesn't translate very well over the internets
I got the joke... so I guess mine was the one that didn't translate. :-( My brain is fried from too much studying, too much turkey, too much alcohol and not enough sleep.

[Villanova1L]

Glad to help. And, Case Western. It's in Cleveland.

Are you still doing first semester, how do you like it?

Lots of job opportunities in Cleveland?

[Chancetobe]

Are you still doing first semester, how do you like it?

Lots of job opportunities in Cleveland?
I actually like law school. I'm a little stressed because its finals I feel like I'm not doing that well (and there just isn't enough time in the day to study). But, I think I've pretty much come to terms with the fact that I'm meh this semester and am just gonna try to step it up an do better next semester.

As for jobs... I haven't looked into it much yet. I'm applying for a few summer internships with the ACLU, but they aren't in Cleveland.

[IAmNietzche]

I actually like law school. I'm a little stressed because its finals I feel like I'm not doing that well (and there just isn't enough time in the day to study). But, I think I've pretty much come to terms with the fact that I'm meh this semester and am just gonna try to step it up an do better next semester.

As for jobs... I haven't looked into it much yet. I'm applying for a few summer internships with the ACLU, but they aren't in Cleveland.
Meh cause the classes are tough or meh because you haven't put the time in? / What classes are you taking?

[Kyle Garchar]

I actually like law school. I'm a little stressed because its finals I feel like I'm not doing that well (and there just isn't enough time in the day to study). But, I think I've pretty much come to terms with the fact that I'm meh this semester and am just gonna try to step it up an do better next semester.

As for jobs... I haven't looked into it much yet. I'm applying for a few summer internships with the ACLU, but they aren't in Cleveland.

How were the LSATs? I'm a sophomore right now (junior at the end of the year) and I've just declared political science pre-law as my major down at Ohio University. I'm thinking I'll probably be going to law school somewhere in Ohio (maybe Capital, OSU or somewhere in Cleveland) What other schools did you look at? Did you apply to a lot? Where'd you get in and turn down?

Thanks ahead for the info! haha

[Chancetobe]

Meh cause the classes are tough or meh because you haven't put the time in? / What classes are you taking?
Probably a mix of both. I'm doing Contracts, Torts, Crim and Legal Writing and Research. I think I'll be fine-good in crim, can get by in torts, but contracts just doesn't come naturally to me. For that reason and because my teacher sucked I didn't pay much attention in class and had to learn everything on my own. I'm getting there, but, it's taking me forever.

How were the LSATs? I'm a sophomore right now (junior at the end of the year) and I've just declared political science pre-law as my major down at Ohio University. I'm thinking I'll probably be going to law school somewhere in Ohio (maybe Capital, OSU or somewhere in Cleveland) What other schools did you look at? Did you apply to a lot? Where'd you get in and turn down?

Thanks ahead for the info! haha
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/snowpeach06
This should answer all your questions.

[Villanova1L]

I actually like law school. I'm a little stressed because its finals I feel like I'm not doing that well (and there just isn't enough time in the day to study). But, I think I've pretty much come to terms with the fact that I'm meh this semester and am just gonna try to step it up an do better next semester.

As for jobs... I haven't looked into it much yet. I'm applying for a few summer internships with the ACLU, but they aren't in Cleveland.

No offense, but "not enough time to study" makes it sound like you're working hard 18 hours a day, which I doubt. Just study the commercial outlines and you'll be fine 1L year. You should focus on writing concise statements of law using the facts of the hypo to illustrate those statements of law.

Breathe, 1L year isn't as hard as everyone makes it out to be.

[Villanova1L]

How were the LSATs? I'm a sophomore right now (junior at the end of the year) and I've just declared political science pre-law as my major down at Ohio University. I'm thinking I'll probably be going to law school somewhere in Ohio (maybe Capital, OSU or somewhere in Cleveland) What other schools did you look at? Did you apply to a lot? Where'd you get in and turn down?

Thanks ahead for the info! haha

Go to OSU/Case if you want to practice in Ohio, or don't go. Very difficult to get jobs from the other schools in Ohio.

Take a LSAT prep course, do tons of questions, you'll be fine. Just study a few hours a day for a month or two. High LSAT > everything.

I applied to a lot of schools, got waitlisted at 2 of my reaches. Ended up going to Nova off the waitlist.

[IAmNietzche]

Probably a mix of both. I'm doing Contracts, Torts, Crim and Legal Writing and Research. I think I'll be fine-good in crim, can get by in torts, but contracts just doesn't come naturally to me. For that reason and because my teacher sucked I didn't pay much attention in class and had to learn everything on my own. I'm getting there, but, it's taking me forever.


http://lawschoolnumbers.com/snowpeach06
This should answer all your questions.
Ah ok, my first year is Crim, Civ Pro, Torts, Writing and Research.

[Villanova1L]

Ah ok, my first year is Crim, Civ Pro, Torts, Writing and Research.

Kids these days. My first year was: Crim Pro, Torts, Property, Contracts, Civ Pro, and Writing/Research.

3 exams a semester is a fucking cake walk.

[RedWineSheets]

Kids these days. My first year was: Crim Pro, Torts, Property, Contracts, Civ Pro, and Writing/Research.

3 exams a semester is a fucking cake walk.

THIS!

[IAmNietzche]

No offense, but "not enough time to study" makes it sound like you're working hard 18 hours a day, which I doubt. Just study the commercial outlines and you'll be fine 1L year. You should focus on writing concise statements of law using the facts of the hypo to illustrate those statements of law.

Breathe, 1L year isn't as hard as everyone makes it out to be.
Agreed. 1L hasn't been nearly as hard as I expected. Granted, 95% of my grades are still to come, but I've done well and haven't felt overwhelmed yet.

[IAmNietzche]

Kids these days. My first year was: Crim Pro, Torts, Property, Contracts, Civ Pro, and Writing/Research.

3 exams a semester is a fucking cake walk.
That's my first semester sorry. I misspoke.

[Villanova1L]

That's my first semester sorry. I misspoke.

I misspoke too, that was my first semester.

[Villanova1L]

Anyone who is "overwhelmed" by law school needs to get their fucking head examined. You are ONLY there to go to school. Work slightly harder than you did in undergrad and you'll be fine. It is a lie, and perpetuation of a fantasy, that law school is any harder than college.

Grades are less predictable due to only having 1 or 2 graded assessments, but even then, difficult is the wrong word to use. If you find yourself struggling for time, or are stressed, in law school (WITH THREE FUCKING EXAMS) please leave the profession because you'll be useless in the real world.

[Chancetobe]

Kids these days. My first year was: Crim Pro, Torts, Property, Contracts, Civ Pro, and Writing/Research.

3 exams a semester is a fucking cake walk.
Case is cool cuse next semester we get to take an elective. So it's civ pro, property (and apparently the teacher has his own method, which sucks, my roomie has him this semester for torts), con law (which I'm actually excited about) and i'm doing IP. I'm hoping that either Civ Pro or Property will not be as bad as I anticipate them being.

So far for contracts I read the E&E, did all the CALI lessons and just finished a redrafting of my outline, because my first was just a confused jumble. I have two days, so tomorrow it's sample problems and using the little law in a flash cards I bought. Hopefully all this will at least get me a c+/b-. I have quite a problem issue spotting in contracts. And in torts (but I think I can remedy that by the final - and at the least my outline will get me though.)

[Chancetobe]

Agreed. 1L hasn't been nearly as hard as I expected. Granted, 95% of my grades are still to come, but I've done well and haven't felt overwhelmed yet.
I actually agree too. Up until finals it wasn't hard, nor was it a lot of work. But saving learning contracts for two weeks before the exam was not the best idea I've ever had.

Also to Villanova - I don't think being stressed means you will be a bad lawyer. Most law students have the sort of type A personality where they are always stressed. I don't think it means anything.

[Kyle Garchar]

Probably a mix of both. I'm doing Contracts, Torts, Crim and Legal Writing and Research. I think I'll be fine-good in crim, can get by in torts, but contracts just doesn't come naturally to me. For that reason and because my teacher sucked I didn't pay much attention in class and had to learn everything on my own. I'm getting there, but, it's taking me forever.


http://lawschoolnumbers.com/snowpeach06
This should answer all your questions.haha wow, that has a lot of information. is the $$$$$ the amount you received in scholarships?

[Chancetobe]

haha wow, that has a lot of information. is the $$$$$ the amount you received in scholarships?
Yeah, but it's for all three years, not just one.

[Villanova1L]

Case is cool cuse next semester we get to take an elective. So it's civ pro, property (and apparently the teacher has his own method, which sucks, my roomie has him this semester for torts), con law (which I'm actually excited about) and i'm doing IP. I'm hoping that either Civ Pro or Property will not be as bad as I anticipate them being.

So far for contracts I read the E&E, did all the CALI lessons and just finished a redrafting of my outline, because my first was just a confused jumble. I have two days, so tomorrow it's sample problems and using the little law in a flash cards I bought. Hopefully all this will at least get me a c+/b-. I have quite a problem issue spotting in contracts. And in torts (but I think I can remedy that by the final - and at the least my outline will get me though.)

Civ Pro and Property are the most boring classes ever, and I had decent teachers.

If you did all that and get a C+ you should rethink the way you approach law school. Also, say you got a C+, a B+ and a B you'd lose your scholarship, right? I'm assuming Case curves to below a 3.15, so that C+ will hurt for sure. Good luck though.

You have only 3 exams and you get notes in one of them? That would have been very nice.

Issue spotting is probably the most important skill on law school exams, so good luck with that. I'm hopeful you post a scan of your transcript (with your info blocked out). My guess is a 3.0 for the semester.

[Villanova1L]

Chance - your LSN profile is interesting to me.

"Along those lines, sometimes your happiness is better than a few rankings. USNWR is not god. That said, it still wouldn't be worth it to go to some online law school."

Wasn't Case the highest USNWR school you got into?

"The lower ranked school you go to... the larger the scholarship, and the better position you are in to bargain with other schools. Apply to a few "safeties.""

Also, the lower possibility of getting a job, the more competitive it is with students trying to transfer, and the higher your likelihood of losing your scholarship.

You seem to have placed a huge amount of importance on the cost of school, which was smart, how will you feel if you lose your scholarship at Case?

[Kyle Garchar]

Yeah, but it's for all three years, not just one.Still a lot of money. Congrats!

[Chancetobe]

Chance - your LSN profile is interesting to me.

"Along those lines, sometimes your happiness is better than a few rankings. USNWR is not god. That said, it still wouldn't be worth it to go to some online law school."

Wasn't Case the highest USNWR school you got into?

"The lower ranked school you go to... the larger the scholarship, and the better position you are in to bargain with other schools. Apply to a few "safeties.""

Also, the lower possibility of getting a job, the more competitive it is with students trying to transfer, and the higher your likelihood of losing your scholarship.

You seem to have placed a huge amount of importance on the cost of school, which was smart, how will you feel if you lose your scholarship at Case?
The way my scholarship works is a 3.15 for my 1L year to keep the whole thing. So long as I get above a 2.8 I get to keep half. However, if I raise my cumulative after my 2L year, I can get the whole thing back for my 3L year. So I'm hoping I'll be in the situation where maybe I lose just half of it this year and then get it back.

I chose case not because it was the highest ranked, but because I got the most money, and the living was by far the cheapest. I also knew the area already from undergrad (which just seemed like one less thing to deal with) and figured I would be a lot less distracted in Cleveland than I would be in say, Chicago. I also thought of the schools I got into, a Case degree had a bit more mobility than the rest. My top choices were Loyola (stuck in Chicago), Temple (stuck in Philly) and from Case I thought I had a slightly better chance at NY or DC because our Career services office kicks ass.

edit: What the hell. I'm gonna ask you for advice. Best way to prep with only two days left? My teacher only has one sample exam available. I have an E&E, Law in a Flash, can probably find some sample exams online.

[Villanova1L]

The way my scholarship works is a 3.15 for my 1L year to keep the whole thing. So long as I get above a 2.8 I get to keep half. However, if I raise my cumulative after my 2L year, I can get the whole thing back for my 3L year. So I'm hoping I'll be in the situation where maybe I lose just half of it this year and then get it back.

I chose case not because it was the highest ranked, but because I got the most money, and the living was by far the cheapest. I also knew the area already from undergrad (which just seemed like one less thing to deal with) and figured I would be a lot less distracted in Cleveland than I would be in say, Chicago. I also thought of the schools I got into, a Case degree had a bit more mobility than the rest. My top choices were Loyola (stuck in Chicago), Temple (stuck in Philly) and from Case I thought I had a slightly better chance at NY or DC because our Career services office kicks ass.

edit: What the hell. I'm gonna ask you for advice. Best way to prep with only two days left? My teacher only has one sample exam available. I have an E&E, Law in a Flash, can probably find some sample exams online.

I would bet that VLS does better in NY, but our career services admittedly sucks.

2 days left - exams from your prof if available, but not just random exams. If you don't have that then just review E&E/your outline. Exams that your professor has given in the past is by far the best way to study.

[Chancetobe]

I would bet that VLS does better in NY, but our career services admittedly sucks.

2 days left - exams from your prof if available, but not just random exams. If you don't have that then just review E&E/your outline. Exams that your professor has given in the past is by far the best way to study.
Our teacher gave one. Glad I did it because everything I thought would be on the exam wasn't. Now that I'm done, I'm just very relieved. I have crim next, which I don't think I really have to study for. Our teacher just asks us to read/write statutes. We don't have to know much black letter law, so, I can take a bit of a break and just minority study for crim, so I'm all refreshed and ready to study hardcore again for torts. And by study, I mean issue spot every single one of the 20 exams my teacher put online. I feel surprisingly good. Not like I got A's or anything, but, like I didn't completely fuck up.

[Villanova1L]

I had zero feel for how I did on exams. Exams I walked out of thinking I got a C on I got As on. Exams I thought I got As on I got Bs.

Good luck. I assume he has you write statutes to read like the current black letter law? Seems like an interesting way to test.

[terrycw89]

Taking the LSAT on Saturday and I definitely feel like I should have prepared a lot more than I have.

[Chancetobe]

Yeah, I was all ready to write a rape statute. Instead he gave us a status v. condition question with like 6 pages of statutes. Beastly.

[SgtSmegma]

Taking the LSAT on Saturday and I definitely feel like I should have prepared a lot more than I have.

Right there with you, bro. Good luck on it

[terrycw89]

Right there with you, bro. Good luck on it

You too, man.

[Chancetobe]

Ugh, summer job search. Now I feel the hopelessness that all you cynical law grads talk about so much. Seems like I'll never be able to get anything.

Also just finding legal internships seems difficult. Particularly in the Entertainment/IP arena. It's easy enough for public interest, and I have about a million to apply to, but, I've only found about 3 in entertainment, and I'd imagine they are extremely competitive. So without knowing my grades, I don't know if its worth applying.

[SgtSmegma]

You too, man.

You get your scores back yet? Still haven't got mine

[terrycw89]

Really disappointed with my LSAT score. Damn.

[SgtSmegma]

Really disappointed with my LSAT score. Damn.

Me too :(

[Spicoli hey bud]

Don't do it.

[SgtSmegma]

Don't do it.

Commence killself sequence

[Chancetobe]

Really disappointed with my LSAT score. Damn.

Me too :(
I think everyone is. But was it so bad that you guys are no longer gonna apply?

[jawstheme]

I did well this time. Onto the application process! Does anyone know what the whole evaluator thing is, and if you even need them?

[SlappedActor]

So I was scheduled to take the LSAT in December. Been studying hard, scoring in the high 160's, even inching into the 170's. Pumped and ready to take the test and get it behind me. Combine that with a good GPA, and I'm thinking scholarship opportunities. I show up to the testing center on time, with all the necessary supplies. Eventually the proctor starts collecting our tickets for admission. He asks me for my ID and ticket. I produce them and he says:

Him: "Hmmm. Well, these don't match, do they?"

Me: "What are you talking about?"

Him: "Your driver's license lists you as 'Jake,' but your ticket says 'Jacob.'"

Me: "So...?"

Him: "They have to match or you can't take the test."

Me: "Are you serious? It's not like I'm using a different name, Jake is just a variation of Jacob. Plus, you have my social security number, my photo, and my fingerprint. So I can't imagine there being any problem."

Him: "I'm sorry, you're not going to be taking this test today."

Me: "No, I definitely am taking this test. I'm signed up, I've paid, and I'm ready. Obviously I am who I am."

(Proctor produces the fine print, and buried in the middle of the paragraph, it says that the ticket and ID must match exactly)

Me: "I guess I could understand if I was using a different name, but it's really the same one. I've been preparing for this for months. You're really not going to let me take it, based on a technicality? Look, I'm sorry I didn't read the fine print closer, but c'mon. Be reasonable."

Him: "You'll have to take it next time."

Anyway, to make a long story short, I asked for a phone number, so he gave me the number to the LSAC. I pleaded with them, and they couldn't have cared less. So I requested that the money I paid be moved to a future test date, and they said they didn't do refunds. So I'm out the cash, and they wouldn't let me take the test. Because of the difference between Jake and Jacob. So I will miss all the deadlines for application, and if I want to do law school, it won't be until fall 2012. I hate my life.

[SgtSmegma]

I think everyone is. But was it so bad that you guys are no longer gonna apply?

I'm still going to apply, I'm just much less confident now. I just feel like my countless hours of studying didn't help all that much

[SgtSmegma]

I did well this time. Onto the application process! Does anyone know what the whole evaluator thing is, and if you even need them?

It depends on the school. Most don't, from what I've seen. You definitely need LoR's though

[jawstheme]

So I was scheduled to take the LSAT in December. Been studying hard, scoring in the high 160's, even inching into the 170's. Pumped and ready to take the test and get it behind me. Combine that with a good GPA, and I'm thinking scholarship opportunities. I show up to the testing center on time, with all the necessary supplies. Eventually the proctor starts collecting our tickets for admission. He asks me for my ID and ticket. I produce them and he says:

Him: "Hmmm. Well, these don't match, do they?"

Me: "What are you talking about?"

Him: "Your driver's license lists you as 'Jake,' but your ticket says 'Jacob.'"

Me: "So...?"

Him: "They have to match or you can't take the test?"

Me: "Are you serious? It's not like I'm using a different name, Jake is just a variation of Jacob. Plus, you have my social security number, my photo, and my fingerprint. So I can't imagine there being any problem."

Him: "I'm sorry, you're not going to be taking this test today."

Me: "No, I definitely am taking this test. I'm signed up, I've paid, and I'm ready. Obviously I am who I am."

(Proctor produces the fine print, and buried in the middle of the paragraph, it says that the ticket and ID must match exactly)

Me: "I guess I could understand if I was using a different name, but it's really the same one. I've been preparing for this for months. You're really not going to let me take it, based on a technicality? Look, I'm sorry I didn't read the fine print closer, but c'mon. Be reasonable."

Him: "You'll have to take it next time."

Anyway, to make a long story short, I asked for a phone number, so he gave me the number to the LSAC. I pleaded with them, and they couldn't have cared less. So I requested that the money I paid be moved to a future test date, and they said they didn't do refunds. So I'm out the cash, and they wouldn't let me take the test. Because of the difference beetween Jake and Jacob. So I will miss all the deadlines for application, and if I want to do law school, it won't be until fall 2012. I hate my life.

Wow, that is fucking awful. Are you taking in Feb?

[jawstheme]

It depends on the school. Most don't, from what I've seen. You definitely need LoR's though

I have those and my transcrips are processing. I didn't see in any of the schools I was looking at where I'd need an evaluator. It looks stupid anyway.

[SgtSmegma]

So I was scheduled to take the LSAT in December. Been studying hard, scoring in the high 160's, even inching into the 170's. Pumped and ready to take the test and get it behind me. Combine that with a good GPA, and I'm thinking scholarship opportunities. I show up to the testing center on time, with all the necessary supplies. Eventually the proctor starts collecting our tickets for admission. He asks me for my ID and ticket. I produce them and he says:

Him: "Hmmm. Well, these don't match, do they?"

Me: "What are you talking about?"

Him: "Your driver's license lists you as 'Jake,' but your ticket says 'Jacob.'"

Me: "So...?"

Him: "They have to match or you can't take the test?"

Me: "Are you serious? It's not like I'm using a different name, Jake is just a variation of Jacob. Plus, you have my social security number, my photo, and my fingerprint. So I can't imagine there being any problem."

Him: "I'm sorry, you're not going to be taking this test today."

Me: "No, I definitely am taking this test. I'm signed up, I've paid, and I'm ready. Obviously I am who I am."

(Proctor produces the fine print, and buried in the middle of the paragraph, it says that the ticket and ID must match exactly)

Me: "I guess I could understand if I was using a different name, but it's really the same one. I've been preparing for this for months. You're really not going to let me take it, based on a technicality? Look, I'm sorry I didn't read the fine print closer, but c'mon. Be reasonable."

Him: "You'll have to take it next time."

Anyway, to make a long story short, I asked for a phone number, so he gave me the number to the LSAC. I pleaded with them, and they couldn't have cared less. So I requested that the money I paid be moved to a future test date, and they said they didn't do refunds. So I'm out the cash, and they wouldn't let me take the test. Because of the difference beetween Jake and Jacob. So I will miss all the deadlines for application, and if I want to do law school, it won't be until fall 2012. I hate my life.

Sorry for the triple post; posting mobilly. Fuck your life man. I would have blown a gasket. The proctor didn't have to be such a douche rocket, but I distinctly recall that clause being bolded for emphasis on the information sheet.

[SgtSmegma]

I have those and my transcrips are processing. I didn't see in any of the schools I was looking at where I'd need an evaluator. It looks stupid anyway.

Yeah you should be fine.

[SlappedActor]

Wow, that is fucking awful. Are you taking in Feb?

Probably not. Any school I'm interested in would have made their decisions by the time I get my scores back. I might as well wait until June and take it 12:30. (I'm really not a morning person, so I think that would help me anyway).

Sorry for the triple post; posting mobilly. Fuck your life man. I would have blown a gasket. The proctor didn't have to be such a douche rocket, but I distinctly recall that clause being bolded for emphasis on the information sheet.

It was indeed bolded, but to be honest, I had forgotten that my DL said Jake to begin with. I guess I don't look at it that often. Still, I felt it was pretty ridiculous, not to mention unnecessary.

[terrycw89]

I think everyone is. But was it so bad that you guys are no longer gonna apply?

I'm still going to apply and I'm pretty sure the score I got will get me into the school I want to go to, but I'm a lot less confident about that now.

[Chancetobe]

Anyway, to make a long story short, I asked for a phone number, so he gave me the number to the LSAC. I pleaded with them, and they couldn't have cared less. So I requested that the money I paid be moved to a future test date, and they said they didn't do refunds. So I'm out the cash, and they wouldn't let me take the test. Because of the difference between Jake and Jacob. So I will miss all the deadlines for application, and if I want to do law school, it won't be until fall 2012. I hate my life.
That sucks... a lot. Sorry! Which leads to my advice of ALWAYS, ALWAYS take the earliest test you can. Better to take it and have a worse score than no score at all. My friend waited til' Feb. to take the test and couldn't get in anywhere. She had to reapply this year.

I'm still going to apply, I'm just much less confident now. I just feel like my countless hours of studying didn't help all that much
May I ask the score? Where are you applying?

I'm still going to apply and I'm pretty sure the score I got will get me into the school I want to go to, but I'm a lot less confident about that now.
Well... it'll probably be fine. Check lawschoolnumbers.com for a good idea. You going somewhere in Washington?

Meanwhile... my grades come out tomorrow. The anticipation is killing me/I think it's gonna be bad. All I know is that I got a b+ in legal writing... which is only worth 1/3 of my legal writing grade for the year.

[SgtSmegma]

May I ask the score? Where are you applying

156 :(

I'm pretty sure the logic games molested me, despite the fact that I spent a good deal of time preparing for it

[Chancetobe]

156 :(

I'm pretty sure the logic games molested me, despite the fact that I spent a good deal of time preparing for it
Yeah, they're kind of a bitch. Sorry... that sucks. On the bright side, you can probably still crack the bottom of the top 100.

[SgtSmegma]

Yeah, they're kind of a bitch. Sorry... that sucks. On the bright side, you can probably still crack the bottom of the top 100.

Yeah, I dunno if its worth it. I have a good GPA (3.73) and 2 years work experience so hopefully that boosts my resume. I might just apply to in state schools and see what happens.

[Chancetobe]

Yeah, I dunno if its worth it. I have a good GPA (3.73) and 2 years work experience so hopefully that boosts my resume. I might just apply to in state schools and see what happens.
Yeah, I mean, neither of those things are gonna hurt, that's for sure. In state schools, if you want to stay in-state are a good idea. Prob. way cheap too.

[SgtSmegma]

Yeah, I mean, neither of those things are gonna hurt, that's for sure. In state schools, if you want to stay in-state are a good idea. Prob. way cheap too.

This is my primary motivation. All we've got is UT and Memphis though

[Chancetobe]

This is my primary motivation. All we've got is UT and Memphis though
Some kid at my school is from TN and talks about it constantly. And his entire car is UT'd out. License plate, bumper sticker. It's insane. He talks about it like it's the best place on earth. As does this one girl who went to U Nebraska.

[SgtSmegma]

Some kid at my school is from TN and talks about it constantly. And his entire car is UT'd out. License plate, bumper sticker. It's insane. He talks about it like it's the best place on earth. As does this one girl who went to U Nebraska.

Yeah. UT borders on religious status for a lot of people here, particularly East.

[Chancetobe]

So grades were set to come out this morning at 8. I had nightmare that they gave us our grades on little dog tags, and I lost all of them but one and was freaking out. I woke up from this dream at exactly 8, waited a few minutes for my friends to come over, then stopped waiting and just checked. At this point I was literally hyperventalating convinced I was dead bottom of the class. Got my grades, B+, A-, A-... a 3.5. I called my dad and i was still kinda hyperventalating so he thought something was wrong. haha. Now that I know I'm not a miserable failure at law school, I kind of want to work a little harder this semester and try to have a shot at being top. Of course of my two best friends in my section one is dead top and one is somewhere in the top 10%. Knowing smart people is a good motivator.

[SgtSmegma]

Any tips on writing a personal statement?

[Chancetobe]

Any tips on writing a personal statement?
Honestly, don't worry about it that much. They like to hear those truly unique stories, but, most people don't have anything like that they can say. So, just focus on writing one that sounds good, has no errors, and don't freak out over it, because I don't think it matters much.

[SgtSmegma]

All my apps are in. Playing the waiting game now :thumbdwn:

[Chancetobe]

Civ Pro and Property are the most boring classes ever, and I had decent teachers.

If you did all that and get a C+ you should rethink the way you approach law school. Also, say you got a C+, a B+ and a B you'd lose your scholarship, right? I'm assuming Case curves to below a 3.15, so that C+ will hurt for sure. Good luck though.

You have only 3 exams and you get notes in one of them? That would have been very nice.

Issue spotting is probably the most important skill on law school exams, so good luck with that. I'm hopeful you post a scan of your transcript (with your info blocked out). My guess is a 3.0 for the semester.
I was reading through this thread and came across these high hopes for my academic success. I don't have any photo-shoping skills to post my transcript, but, it wound up looking something like this:
Crim Law - A-
Torts - A-
Contracts - B+
Legal Writing and Research Provisional Grade (it's a full year course, so this semesters grade wasn't on the transcript) - B+
GPA: 3.555 Dean's Honors List. Not sure the rank, but, based on years past it's somewhere in the top 20 ish percent.

All my apps are in. Playing the waiting game now :thumbdwn:
Congrats. All the work is done! Make sure to keep us updated.

[SgtSmegma]

I was reading through this thread and came across these high hopes for my academic success. I don't have any photo-shoping skills to post my transcript, but, it wound up looking something like this:
Crim Law - A-
Torts - A-
Contracts - B+
Legal Writing and Research Provisional Grade (it's a full year course, so this semesters grade wasn't on the transcript) - B+
GPA: 3.555 Dean's Honors List. Not sure the rank, but, based on years past it's somewhere in the top 20 ish percent.


Congrats. All the work is done! Make sure to keep us updated.

Congrats on the 1L grades! Impressive.

I feel like maybe I waited to long to apply though. Those with early decisions probably have a better shot. I almost want to retake the LSAT and wait til next year because I'm confident I could score 3-5 points higher on the LSAT.

That being said, if I get into UT, I'll be happy