Is anybody else here pro death panel?

[zach]

I've been hearing a lot about proposed government death panels in the health care reform bill, and I must say I'm ecstatic over the idea of a Kafkaesque board of shadowy civil servants examining the cases and passing judgement at secret trials on weather the elderly and chronically ill are deserving of life saving medical care based upon a medical cost/patient potential ratio. Hopefully a stipulation will be included in which the patients intelligence quotient is taken into account as well. Now while this isn't the ideal position, my comrades and I in the anti-humanity camp still feel that our best option for apocalyptic carnage and destruction is to nuke earth with everything we got, this is probably the best compromise we're going to get for a while and that's why I support Dark Lord Obama's death panel policy. I'm just wondering if there are any other supporters here?

[Praetor]

I am for sure. I think my biggest problem, though, is access to these programs for the young. Why is it just the seniors that should be put to death by their government? The way I see it, an unproductive 55-year-old should have the same right to be put to death as an old person.

/Stewart'd 'em

[GeeBee]

Yes.
There are plenty of reasons to get people comfortable and ready for death rather than to arbitrarily keep medicating them when it's a drain and an ultimate futile gesture.

[Animalhill]

Yes.
There are plenty of reasons to get people comfortable and ready for death rather than to arbitrarily keep medicating them when it's a drain and an ultimate futile gesture.
I second this.

[keepitwolf]

though it said Pro Death Metal

[Machu505]

Absolutely. Post-birth abortions are something we need more of in this country.

[zach]

Yes.
There are plenty of reasons to get people comfortable and ready for death rather than to arbitrarily keep medicating them when it's a drain and an ultimate futile gesture.

I agree that there are plenty of reasons, however they fail to strike fear into the people's hearts. There's not enough fear in our society of having one's life taken away by a panel of government "compassion agents" in the most slowly and drawn out way possible.

[GeeBee]

I agree that there are plenty of reasons, however they fail to strike fear into the people's hearts. There's not enough fear in our society of having one's life taken away by a panel of government "compassion agents" in the most slowly and drawn out way possible.

What can I say? Americans are stupid and should start taking classes in "indifference" from the Brits.

[saysmydoctor]

Greenbacks for Grannies!

[lauren<3s music]

Absolutely. Post-birth abortions are something we need more of in this country.
i support this, but only for the unproductive and idiotic. See: OP

[$eth]

I'm sorry, I'm all for saving money, but they're humans. What are you going to do when it's your mom, your dad, you're spouse? You're not going to fight to try and save them? It sounds like a bunch of bs if you ask me. Let's just stop trying to find a cure for cancer and let everybody who is diagnosed suffer and die. No, that's not how it works. We fight to try and save every individual, no matter how terminally ill or unproductive they may be. They're humans just like you and me. To support something like this, you'd have to be heartless.

[Adeniz19]

:hitself:

[lauren<3s music]

:hitself:
love love love LOVE the avy.

i know, it's a lotta love.

[iheartmusic043]

My grandfather retired and my grandmother had to retire after being diagnosed with heart disease so I think this "death panel" for unproductive elderly people is total bs. They're barely getting by on Social Security and no pensions. This idea (along with all the others that screw over the elderly) are the reasons why I'm scared to get old. I volunteer in a nursing home and I see so many old people get screwed over by their families and now the rest of America is planning on doing the same.

[Justin_stacy]

Its probably the only thing I've liked so far. Medicare desperately needs a cost vs value panel, and any new government expansion will need one too if the actual savings are to be met.

But its something the writers and panel memebers can't opt themselves out of if its going to work.

[Codi23]

Absolutely. Post-birth abortions are something we need more of in this country.

Lol.

I'm sorry, I'm all for saving money, but they're humans. What are you going to do when it's your mom, your dad, you're spouse? You're not going to fight to try and save them? It sounds like a bunch of bs if you ask me. Let's just stop trying to find a cure for cancer and let everybody who is diagnosed suffer and die. No, that's not how it works. We fight to try and save every individual, no matter how terminally ill or unproductive they may be. They're humans just like you and me. To support something like this, you'd have to be heartless.

Oh geez, do you not understand? Could I be of assistance to you?

My grandfather retired and my grandmother had to retire after being diagnosed with heart disease so I think this "death panel" for unproductive elderly people is total bs. They're barely getting by on Social Security and no pensions. This idea (along with all the others that screw over the elderly) are the reasons why I'm scared to get old. I volunteer in a nursing home and I see so many old people get screwed over by their families and now the rest of America is planning on doing the same.

LOL.

[Dymytry Vance]

Ther will be no death panel... okay.. deal with it... no one cares what Sarah Palin says anymore because she has no idea what she's talking about and has completely abused all political power and does nothing but spew stupid crap out of her mouth.

[Machu505]

I'm sorry, I'm all for saving money, but they're humans. What are you going to do when it's your mom, your dad, you're spouse? You're not going to fight to try and save them? It sounds like a bunch of bs if you ask me. Let's just stop trying to find a cure for cancer and let everybody who is diagnosed suffer and die. No, that's not how it works. We fight to try and save every individual, no matter how terminally ill or unproductive they may be. They're humans just like you and me. To support something like this, you'd have to be heartless.

My grandfather retired and my grandmother had to retire after being diagnosed with heart disease so I think this "death panel" for unproductive elderly people is total bs. They're barely getting by on Social Security and no pensions. This idea (along with all the others that screw over the elderly) are the reasons why I'm scared to get old. I volunteer in a nursing home and I see so many old people get screwed over by their families and now the rest of America is planning on doing the same.
Seriously, are you guys really that oblivious?

[the andyspecial]

Ther will be no death panel... okay.. deal with it... no one cares what Sarah Palin says anymore because she has no idea what she's talking about and has completely abused all political power and does nothing but spew stupid crap out of her mouth.

i've always cared about everything a cougar tells me. Especially if she's wearing lace.

and that part about crap in her mouth........well, she'd better believe in the glassbottom boat.

[diehtc0ke]

Seriously, are you guys really that oblivious?I came in to say that they're 16 and then I looked at your age. Damn you.

+1 for death panels.

[Dymytry Vance]

i've always cared about everything a cougar tells me. Especially if she's wearing lace.

and that part about crap in her mouth........well, she'd better believe in the glassbottom boat.
:-D

[zach]

I'm sorry, I'm all for saving money, but they're humans. What are you going to do when it's your mom, your dad, you're spouse? You're not going to fight to try and save them? It sounds like a bunch of bs if you ask me. Let's just stop trying to find a cure for cancer and let everybody who is diagnosed suffer and die. No, that's not how it works. We fight to try and save every individual, no matter how terminally ill or unproductive they may be. They're humans just like you and me. To support something like this, you'd have to be heartless.
Which is exactly why I've chosen to support this candidate in their bid for the presidency in 2012:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6f/No_Heart.PNG


Because carring is communism!

[paper halo]

We already have a death panel in this country. It's awesome, they collect the useless old people in a bus, telling them they're going to bingo, then just drive down to the NHS furnaces and chuck them in. Join us, comrades!

[Praetor]

In all seriousness, the only death panels in the equation here are the ones that the insurance companies are running.

[MattADALIE]

I'm sorry, I'm all for saving money, but they're humans. What are you going to do when it's your mom, your dad, you're spouse? You're not going to fight to try and save them? It sounds like a bunch of bs if you ask me. Let's just stop trying to find a cure for cancer and let everybody who is diagnosed suffer and die. No, that's not how it works. We fight to try and save every individual, no matter how terminally ill or unproductive they may be. They're humans just like you and me. To support something like this, you'd have to be heartless.

Aside from this thread in its entirety being a sarcastic gesture (if not, I'm disgusted), I'm with this kid right here.

[MattADALIE]

Ther will be no death panel... okay.. deal with it... no one cares what Sarah Palin says anymore because she has no idea what she's talking about and has completely abused all political power and does nothing but spew stupid crap out of her mouth.

I didn't know Sarah Palin had anything to do with this. Within the proposed health care reform bill (as well as the cap and trade bullshit that was passed recently), there are sections that make you think, "Everyone in this country will be even more of a slave and disposable than ever before". Aside from the bill itself, I've seen various news articles about it, too. I didn't know Sarah Palin was even active anymore, but, I'm damn sure she's a lot smarter than she lets herself appear. I'm going to get a lot of shit for this. Here we go!

[Codi23]

:yawn:

[My Broken Fever]

I didn't know Sarah Palin had anything to do with this. Within the proposed health care reform bill (as well as the cap and trade bullshit that was passed recently), there are sections that make you think, "Everyone in this country will be even more of a slave and disposable than ever before". Aside from the bill itself, I've seen various news articles about it, too. I didn't know Sarah Palin was even active anymore, but, I'm damn sure she's a lot smarter than she lets herself appear. I'm going to get a lot of shit for this. Here we go!
There is no such thing as a deathpanel in the healthcare bill, you should read it. Oh I'm sorry, how silly of me to ask someone to read something before they talk about it.

[Machu505]

I didn't know Sarah Palin had anything to do with this. Within the proposed health care reform bill (as well as the cap and trade bullshit that was passed recently), there are sections that make you think, "Everyone in this country will be even more of a slave and disposable than ever before". Aside from the bill itself, I've seen various news articles about it, too. I didn't know Sarah Palin was even active anymore, but, I'm damn sure she's a lot smarter than she lets herself appear. I'm going to get a lot of shit for this. Here we go!
Sarah Palin fear mongered the concept of a "death panel" via Facebook. Newt Gingrich and Glenn Beck later concurred with her and both were subsequently proven wrong.

And no, there are no parts of any of the health care bills that would make a person think they're more of a slave and more disposable than ever.

[Dymytry Vance]

I didn't know Sarah Palin had anything to do with this. Within the proposed health care reform bill (as well as the cap and trade bullshit that was passed recently), there are sections that make you think, "Everyone in this country will be even more of a slave and disposable than ever before". Aside from the bill itself, I've seen various news articles about it, too. I didn't know Sarah Palin was even active anymore, but, I'm damn sure she's a lot smarter than she lets herself appear. I'm going to get a lot of shit for this. Here we go!
That's what I heard. But I highly doubt she's making herself look like a pro-totalitarianism megalomaniac on purpose.

[Dymytry Vance]

There is no such thing as a deathpanel in the healthcare bill, you should read it. Oh I'm sorry, how silly of me to ask someone to read something before they talk about it.
Kudos to you. My family and I actually read it and are shocked as to how a death panel was misconstrued through it's writing. You don't even live in our country and you're making more sense than most of the people who do. Congratulations :bow:.

[My Broken Fever]

Kudos to you. My family and I actually read it and are shocked as to how a death panel was misconstrued through it's writing. You don't even live in our country and you're making more sense than most of the people who do. Congratulations :bow:. Well I am from Europe, 'socialized' healthcare is common here, I know all about killing grandmothers and deathpanels.

[Dymytry Vance]

Well I am from Europe, 'socialized' healthcare is common here, I know all about killing grandmothers and deathpanels.
I'm not for socialized, free healthcare because it takes so long to actually get to a doctor. My friend was in Canada for two months and his tonsils gre like 4 times the normal size to the point where he couldn't breathe. If he was Canadian he would have had to wait 6 and a half months to get to a doctor and he would have died. But because he was American and had to pay he was in the next day....

[GeeBee]

Aside from this thread in its entirety being a sarcastic gesture (if not, I'm disgusted), I'm with this kid right here.
Funny how people head straight to the vet to have their pets put down when in pain, yet they go out of their way to stretch the human capacity for pain to its limits.
I didn't know Sarah Palin had anything to do with this. Within the proposed health care reform bill (as well as the cap and trade bullshit that was passed recently), there are sections that make you think, "Everyone in this country will be even more of a slave and disposable than ever before". Aside from the bill itself, I've seen various news articles about it, too. I didn't know Sarah Palin was even active anymore, but, I'm damn sure she's a lot smarter than she lets herself appear. I'm going to get a lot of shit for this. Here we go!

You continue to prove yourself in every thread you post in to be dismally ignorant of any substantive issues whatsoever.

[My Broken Fever]

I'm not for socialized, free healthcare because it takes so long to actually get to a doctor. My friend was in Canada for two months and his tonsils gre like 4 times the normal size to the point where he couldn't breathe. If he was Canadian he would have had to wait 6 and a half months to get to a doctor and he would have died. But because he was American and had to pay he was in the next day....
That's nonsense, it doesn't work like that here and I'm pretty confident that it doesn't work like that in Canada either.

[Dymytry Vance]

That's nonsense, it doesn't work like that here and I'm pretty confident that it doesn't work like that in Canada either.
I'll take his and his family's word for it.

[GeeBee]

I'll take his and his family's word for it.

Well, take my word for it when I say I'd rather have to wait for decent healthcare than have some bloated CEO get a bonus for denying me care altogether.

[Dymytry Vance]

We already have a death panel in this country. It's awesome, they collect the useless old people in a bus, telling them they're going to bingo, then just drive down to the NHS furnaces and chuck them in. Join us, comrades! PICK ME! PICK ME!

[iheartmusic043]

Seriously, are you guys really that oblivious?
I know this thread is sarcastic and all (or at least I hope it is) but this is a serious issue.

In all seriousness, the only death panels in the equation here are the ones that the insurance companies are running.
Totally agree. Medical Isurance companies are so messed up.

[Machu505]

My cousin lives in Vancouver. His son had to have his appendix removed and he said they were in in eighteen minutes.

Not to mention that +70% of Canadians are happy with their system.

[paper halo]

I'm not for socialized, free healthcare because it takes so long to actually get to a doctor. My friend was in Canada for two months and his tonsils gre like 4 times the normal size to the point where he couldn't breathe. If he was Canadian he would have had to wait 6 and a half months to get to a doctor and he would have died. But because he was American and had to pay he was in the next day....

Irrelevant, because a single payer system is not the same as a socialized system. Also irrelevant because it's quite clearly bullshit.

PICK ME! PICK ME!

What?

[zach]

I'm not for socialized, free healthcare because it takes so long to actually get to a doctor. My friend was in Canada for two months and his tonsils gre like 4 times the normal size to the point where he couldn't breathe. If he was Canadian he would have had to wait 6 and a half months to get to a doctor and he would have died. But because he was American and had to pay he was in the next day....

There is absolutley no way this is the case. I have over 20 years of expierence with the Canadian health care system (which doesn't even really exist because it varies from province to province) and I've never had to wait more than a few hours to see a doctor, and that's at the emergency room in the middle of the night. The only times I've had to wait to see a doctor were for routine check ups, and even then I was waiting a week tops. It's more than likley that your friend and his family were told that it would be 6 and half monthes before he could have surgery done to remove his tonsils, and he was given a scipt for some medication to take in the mean time. But since you at no point explain who told him this, I'm going to have to go ahead and assume that either your friend and his familly weren't used to greedy american doctors trying to upsale procedures that they didn't need and misinturpreted what the doctor told him, or somebody is flat out lying. I mean shit, it's completly illegal to be bumped ahead on waitlists because you paid somebody. He had to pay because he doesn't pay taxes in Canada and therefore doesn't contribute to health care here. Then unless there was some seriously shady shit going on, he was put into the system and waited just like everybody else.

Anyways, to get back on topic, just which type of death panel would be most effective? Khemer Rouge, or Francoist?

[Dymytry Vance]

There is absolutley no way this is the case. I have over 20 years of expierence with the Canadian health care system (which doesn't even really exist because it varies from province to province) and I've never had to wait more than a few hours to see a doctor, and that's at the emergency room in the middle of the night. The only times I've had to wait to see a doctor were for routine check ups, and even then I was waiting a week tops. It's more than likley that your friend and his family were told that it would be 6 and half monthes before he could have surgery done to remove his tonsils, and he was given a scipt for some medication to take in the mean time. But since you at no point explain who told him this, I'm going to have to go ahead and assume that either your friend and his familly weren't used to greedy american doctors trying to upsale procedures that they didn't need and misinturpreted what the doctor told him, or somebody is flat out lying. I mean shit, it's completly illegal to be bumped ahead on waitlists because you paid somebody. He had to pay because he doesn't pay taxes in Canada and therefore doesn't contribute to health care here. Then unless there was some seriously shady shit going on, he was put into the system and waited just like everybody else.

Anyways, to get back on topic, just which type of death panel would be most effective? Khemer Rouge, or Francoist?
That's all they said to me... so I have no idea what the whole thing was... whether it was a surgeon he had to wait that long to see. The doctors told him that they couldn't do anything physical until 6 and a half months later without such funds or something like that.

[zach]

That's all they said to me... so I have no idea what the whole thing was... whether it was a surgeon he had to wait that long to see. The doctors told him that they couldn't do anything physical until 6 and a half months later without such funds or something like that.

Whoa whoa whoa! Stop the train! Before he had to wait 6 and half months before he could see a doctor, and now your telling me that a doctory told him it would be 6 and half monthes before they could do any thing physical. Looks like someone can't keep their story straight. You might want to work on that, in the event you face one of the death panels.

[Dymytry Vance]

Whoa whoa whoa! Stop the train! Before he had to wait 6 and half months before he could see a doctor, and now your telling me that a doctory told him it would be 6 and half monthes before they could do any thing physical. Looks like someone can't keep their story straight. You might want to work on that, in the event you face one of the death panels.
Apparently I didn't phrase it all correctly. He was in Canada. Saw a doctor. The surgeon wouldn't be available for six and a half months. K?

OH please spare me Kafka! You too Palin! Do not let me be the turkey getting slaughtered behind you on national TV.

[zach]

Apparently I didn't phrase it all correctly. He was in Canada. Saw a doctor. The surgeon wouldn't be available for six and a half months. K? .
And this is exactly the sort of misinformation and half truthes that are making it impossible to have any sort of meaningful debate. Everybody is conetent to repeat what they heard on T.V. or what their friend who had a 5 hour stop over at the Regina airport told them about Canadian health care without giving a second thought to spending 5 minutes on google to find out if it's true or not. Obviously he wasn't going to die without getting the surgery right away, or he would have gotten the surgery away. You know how I know this? Because I'm Canadian and people have emergency surgeries all the time for things that will kill them if they don't. People also have to wait for surgeries all the time, and most of them don't die! What a fantastic concept: medical care based on who will die first without it!

[J.C.]

Love death panels. Just had some installed in my place last week.

[Machu505]

Anyways, to get back on topic, just which type of death panel would be most effective? Khemer Rouge, or Francoist?
Definitely Khmer Rouge. There are way too many people with eyeglasses in this country. That number needs to go down, and death Panels are probably the only solution.

[zach]

Definitely Khmer Rouge. There are way too many people with eyeglasses in this country. That number needs to go down, and death Panels are probably the only solution.

You're now offically my favourite.

[GeeBee]

Love death panels. Just had some installed in my place last week.

They're way more energy efficient than the life panels of the 70's. Mine came with a 10-year guarantee they'll never have to be painted.

[Machu505]

If only Obama had chosen Dr. Kevorkian as Surgeon General.

[Dymytry Vance]

And this is exactly the sort of misinformation and half truthes that are making it impossible to have any sort of meaningful debate. Everybody is conetent to repeat what they heard on T.V. or what their friend who had a 5 hour stop over at the Regina airport told them about Canadian health care without giving a second thought to spending 5 minutes on google to find out if it's true or not. Obviously he wasn't going to die without getting the surgery right away, or he would have gotten the surgery away. You know how I know this? Because I'm Canadian and people have emergency surgeries all the time for things that will kill them if they don't. People also have to wait for surgeries all the time, and most of them don't die! What a fantastic concept: medical care based on who will die first without it!
No, now we're just gonna deny it to everybody who's got crow's feet.

[Codi23]

I love this thread... that is all.

[mattmatumbo]

This is probably the funniest thread yet, my mom and neighbor were all kinds of pissed about this bs.

[Codi23]

This is probably the funniest thread yet, my mom and neighbor were all kinds of pissed about this bs.

It's twice as hilarious because it's going way over some of the poster's heads :-d .

But, what about my grandma? What's so funny about the government trying to kill her? M-( hahahahaha.

[x togepi x]

I'll take his and his family's word for it.

they're wrong. they probably misunderstood something. I have a friend who's a Canadian citizen living in the US. It was recently discovered his little sister who's like 8 had a genetic disease that shut off her natural growth hormones. To rectify the situation, his sister has to take human growth hormones specifically designed for children. That shit is expensive, like a few grand a bottle. They took her to an American doctor and the Canadian government was like "naw dog, it's cool" and picks up the tab, even though they don't live there. Fucking insurance companies won't even pay the part of the tab they're supposed to if you go see the wrong doctor in your own city!

Any wait time that's going to come from socialized healthcare is vastly lower than the wait time many uninsured people experience because they can't afford the bill unless it's an emergency. Even then, the uninsured face longer wait times because places don't want to treat someone that they're not sure can pay their bill. I don't have insurance. I went to the doctor last march and had to wait 4 HOURS to see somebody because they fought in the back room about my bill. This wasn't a 4 hour wait in an emergency room, this was 4 hours in a normal doctor's office (when i had a set appointment), only to hear "we can't treat you unless you pay in full right now", meaning i ended up going to the emergency room after three days of extremely high fevers and paying a whole lot more.

so yeah, socialized healthcare is an awesome idea.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

I'm Pro-Grandparent Adoptions

C1G_cOGNJzk

[mattmatumbo]

It's twice as hilarious because it's going way over some of the poster's heads :-d .

But, what about my grandma? What's so funny about the government trying to kill her? M-( hahahahaha.

Yeah the first page or two were bogus what some people were posting.

Oh and to the Canada thing about people not getting into see doctors, i think that's a load of BS too. I've never heard a Canadian or a Frenchie complain about their health care system.

[Justin_stacy]

Provision dropped.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life_2

[mattmatumbo]

Damn, well i wonder what the next huge thing of non-sense Palin will brew up for my mom to flip shit about.

[Praetor]

Provision dropped.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life_2
It's a shame such a good amendment was dropped because a few fucktards incapable of reading decided to say it was the total opposite of what it was.

Fuck everything and everybody. Fuck.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

god democrats are such pussies

[Praetor]

god democrats are such pussies
Three things they're good at: compromising, resigning, and apologizing. Fuck Democrats.

[My Broken Fever]

god democrats are such pussies
Well it's better to edit that out and have the reform go through, than it to stumble there. It's just sad that something so normal was pulled so out of context.

[Praetor]

Well it's better to edit that out and have the reform go through, than it to stumble there. It's just sad that something so normal was pulled so out of context.
Progressive democrats have already made too many compromises. Next thing you know there won't be a public option in the final bill.

[Codi23]

Someone needs to kick Grassley's ass; glad he got his damn way on this one M-( .

[mattmatumbo]

So... they aren't going to kill my grandma anymore?

/sarcasm

[Codi23]

So... they aren't going to kill my grandma anymore?

/sarcasm

No, now they're going to ignore her and let her die on her own, with no support.

/seriously

[mattmatumbo]

No, now they're going to ignore her and let her die on her own, with no support.

/seriously

Wait... That sounds bad. I need further explanation. I may be more pissed than i originally thought when i heard they dropped that.

[Codi23]

Wait... That sounds bad. I need further explanation. I may be more pissed than i originally thought when i heard they dropped that.

Well now, if it gets passed, your grandmother will not have the option of counseling near the end of her life paid for by the government; she will most likely have to pay it on her own.

That's the section that was removed due to supposedly being too easy to misinterpret.

[mattmatumbo]

Well now, if it gets passed, your grandmother will not have the option of counseling near the end of her life paid for by the government; she will most likely have to pay it on her own.

That's the section that was removed due to supposedly being too easy to misinterpret.

Oh that's what i thought it meant, but i thought it may be more grave. A curse upon Palin and Grassley!

[Codi23]

Oh that's what i thought it meant, but i thought it may be more grave. A curse upon Palin and Grassley!

Nah, I was just being dramatic haha; it is a big hit to the bill, though; I'm pretty angry about it.

I second this curse!

[Dymytry Vance]

they're wrong. they probably misunderstood something. I have a friend who's a Canadian citizen living in the US. It was recently discovered his little sister who's like 8 had a genetic disease that shut off her natural growth hormones. To rectify the situation, his sister has to take human growth hormones specifically designed for children. That shit is expensive, like a few grand a bottle. They took her to an American doctor and the Canadian government was like "naw dog, it's cool" and picks up the tab, even though they don't live there. Fucking insurance companies won't even pay the part of the tab they're supposed to if you go see the wrong doctor in your own city!

Any wait time that's going to come from socialized healthcare is vastly lower than the wait time many uninsured people experience because they can't afford the bill unless it's an emergency. Even then, the uninsured face longer wait times because places don't want to treat someone that they're not sure can pay their bill. I don't have insurance. I went to the doctor last march and had to wait 4 HOURS to see somebody because they fought in the back room about my bill. This wasn't a 4 hour wait in an emergency room, this was 4 hours in a normal doctor's office (when i had a set appointment), only to hear "we can't treat you unless you pay in full right now", meaning i ended up going to the emergency room after three days of extremely high fevers and paying a whole lot more.

so yeah, socialized healthcare is an awesome idea.
That's awesome. Fortunately I have insurance, so the longest wait time I've had was 3 hours (without a set appointment)/30 minutes (with a set appointment). Now that you put it that way, Sweden may have the right idea after all.

[zach]

Provision dropped.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life_2

Holy fuck that's amazing! Who knew that one ignorant cunt who wont let go of her 15 minutes of fame could make such a difference. America truly is the land of oppourtunity after all; where everybody, no matter how misinformed and obviously mistaken they are, has the chance to create public outrage and furur with comments that are obviously bat shit insane. No where else in the world would Ms. Palin's comments be so readily embraced by so many people who can't be fucked to learn anything besides what Glen Beck tells them. It brings a tear to my eyse just thinking about it.

[Machu505]

Isn't it still in the House bill(s)?

[Machu505]

Grassley was for Death Panels (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/14/grassley-voted-for-socall_n_259750.html) before he was against them.

Sarah Palin rejoices (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/14/sarah-palin-claims-victor_n_259792.html) at the idea of old people not being able to make end-of-life decisions with their doctors.

[J.C.]

Total pussies.

[Justin_stacy]

....

Same person as Evil Zach (http://www.absolutepunk.net/member.php?u=3514)? If so where ya been old friend?

[vodyanoj]

I didn't know Sarah Palin had anything to do with this. Within the proposed health care reform bill (as well as the cap and trade bullshit that was passed recently), there are sections that make you think, "Everyone in this country will be even more of a slave and disposable than ever before". Aside from the bill itself, I've seen various news articles about it, too. I didn't know Sarah Palin was even active anymore, but, I'm damn sure she's a lot smarter than she lets herself appear. I'm going to get a lot of shit for this. Here we go!

I am assuming that you speak from a position of authority, having read both of the bills you mention? (Hint: I have actually read cap and trade, although skimmed through is perhaps a better word, and I have the latest version of the health care bill on my laptop and a quick grep through it indicates that there is nothing of the kind in it).

[vodyanoj]

I'm not for socialized, free healthcare because it takes so long to actually get to a doctor. My friend was in Canada for two months and his tonsils gre like 4 times the normal size to the point where he couldn't breathe. If he was Canadian he would have had to wait 6 and a half months to get to a doctor and he would have died. But because he was American and had to pay he was in the next day....

He would not have died, since there is such a thing as emergency care even in Canada.

[zach]

Same person as Evil Zach (http://www.absolutepunk.net/member.php?u=3514)? If so where ya been old friend?

The very same. I've been... around, I guess. I mean, it's been years since I've posted here. I think my spelling has gotten a little better since then. Last I remember you had just gotten married, I think. Still hatin' on liberals?

[open mind]

I've been hearing a lot about proposed government death panels in the health care reform bill, and I must say I'm ecstatic over the idea of a Kafkaesque board of shadowy civil servants examining the cases and passing judgement at secret trials on weather the elderly and chronically ill are deserving of life saving medical care based upon a medical cost/patient potential ratio. Hopefully a stipulation will be included in which the patients intelligence quotient is taken into account as well. Now while this isn't the ideal position, my comrades and I in the anti-humanity camp still feel that our best option for apocalyptic carnage and destruction is to nuke earth with everything we got, this is probably the best compromise we're going to get for a while and that's why I support Dark Lord Obama's death panel policy. I'm just wondering if there are any other supporters here?

incredible comeback post.
haven't seen you around since the first year of the iraq war...were you one of the people ap lost to knife party back then or did the internet refuse to come into your house for 6-7 years?

edit:INCREDIBLE comeback post.

[paper halo]

I didn't realise until recently just how much the UK's NHS has been brought into the US healthcare debate, so here's a helpful article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zack-cooper/english-healthcare-in-the_b_259966.html).

[Greek]

I'm not for socialized, free healthcare because it takes so long to actually get to a doctor. My friend was in Canada for two months and his tonsils gre like 4 times the normal size to the point where he couldn't breathe. If he was Canadian he would have had to wait 6 and a half months to get to a doctor and he would have died. But because he was American and had to pay he was in the next day....

Absolutely ridiculous. You do know that there is a private sector in Canada where you can see a doctor immediately? Stop spewing crap out of your mouth before you have a clue on what you're actually saying.

[Codi23]

Absolutely ridiculous. You do know that there is a private sector in Canada where you can see a doctor immediately? Stop spewing crap out of your mouth before you have a clue on what you're actually saying.

Owned!

[Praetor]

Why do people not understand that Canada doesn't have a socialized/nationalized health care system? Nationalized health care =/= single-payer system. It's not that difficult. Is it really that black and white to people? If it's not totally dominated by private insurers/providers, it's socialism?

[mattmatumbo]

Why do people not understand that Canada doesn't have a socialized/nationalized health care system? Nationalized health care =/= single-payer system. It's not that difficult. Is it really that black and white to people? If it's not totally dominated by private insurers/providers, it's socialism?

Propaganda has run the news for too long about Socialism and Communism being the same thing, but different names. And the schools teach that anything that isn't Capitolism is Socialism or Communism. Or at least in Utah that's how they make it seem. The stupid government has people too scared of shit that simply isn't the shit that we hate so much. I've had to tell my mom too many times that Stalin and Hitler differed drastically because of their Socialist/Communist ideologies colliding. She, however, probably still believes them to be the same because she grew up in the late 50's-60's.

Great av btw

[Praetor]

Stalin wasn't a Communist.

And like I've said it before, I think the problem at hand is that Americans have a tendency to overstate their own importance and as such, exaggerate how much of the political spectrum that mainstream politics in America covers. Which leads people to think that Democrats are socialists when they aren't even liberals. It's just a blip on the radar.

[mattmatumbo]

Stalin wasn't a Communist.

My Utah schooling... lol.

[Neo Cassady]

hmmm...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/The_Giver_Cover.gif

[zach]

incredible comeback post.
haven't seen you around since the first year of the iraq war...were you one of the people ap lost to knife party back then or did the internet refuse to come into your house for 6-7 years?

edit:INCREDIBLE comeback post.
Yeah, I went over to KP, and then it kinda just slowly disapeared, and then after a few years I remembered about this place and came back.

[Justin_stacy]

The very same. I've been... around, I guess. I mean, it's been years since I've posted here. I think my spelling has gotten a little better since then. Last I remember you had just gotten married, I think. Still hatin' on liberals?

Still married, even got a kid now <---/, a house, a white picket fence, two dogs....the quintessential white conservative suburban life! You still canadian, or was that a passing fad?

And I'm more indifferent than hatin' now. Being a union rep in training, I've got to watch what I say or they might kick me out of the local and make me swim with the fishys. ;-) (seriously).

Railroading pretty much killed any real social life I might of had, so I came back about two years ago. Everyone else from the golden days is gone, either grown up or gotten lives....the bastards....and they took with them most of the fun.

[TJ Wells]

Christopher Buckley's Boomsday seems eerily prescient right now. Not that anything in his book is even remotely going to happen, but it's still weird.

[zach]

Still married, even got a kid now <---/, a house, a white picket fence, two dogs....the quintessential white conservative suburban life! You still canadian, or was that a passing fad?

And I'm more indifferent than hatin' now. Being a union rep in training, I've got to watch what I say or they might kick me out of the local and make me swim with the fishys. ;-) (seriously).

Railroading pretty much killed any real social life I might of had, so I came back about two years ago. Everyone else from the golden days is gone, either grown up or gotten lives....the bastards....and they took with them most of the fun.

Congrats dude! Sounds like you're doing quite well for yourself. I'm still Canadian, and that still means as much to me as it ever did (nothing.) I stilll consider myself an Anarchist, but I've developed a really strong disliking for just about all other Anarchists, so I guess I'm with you in the indifference department. I also have a job that pretty much killed my social life, except I cook instead of railroading, and I fucking love it. I gotta say though, I have a pretty hard time picturing you as a union rep. Did you just sorta stumble into it from railroading?

[Justin_stacy]

Congrats dude! Sounds like you're doing quite well for yourself. I'm still Canadian, and that still means as much to me as it ever did (nothing.) I stilll consider myself an Anarchist, but I've developed a really strong disliking for just about all other Anarchists, so I guess I'm with you in the indifference department. I also have a job that pretty much killed my social life, except I cook instead of railroading, and I fucking love it. I gotta say though, I have a pretty hard time picturing you as a union rep. Did you just sorta stumble into it from railroading?

Well thank you, and being a cook sounds cool....I would love to be able to cook. Tacos and steaks are about all i do right.

The rep job is self serving as I've found alot of union jobs/activities are. 10 to 15 years from now it will gain me a lot of personal benefits (extra pay, shorter work weeks, free vacations, security), and the trade offs aren't all that much.....alot of phone call answering and contract reading. Basically I'll be a middle man between the union and our local, with some limited interaction with the company, but most of that is handled by the local president. I like stuff like that, and our unions pretty respectable.

I've changed alot since we last spoke, I sort of buck the trend and got more liberal with age.

[zach]

Haha, funny enough, our chicken tacos are one of my restaurants most popular dishes. I can make a taco so good your heart will sing. Seriously though, I fucking love being a cook. The only thing I like more is being in a band. And it doesn't really surprise me to hear that you've botten more liberal with age. I've chillled out a lot too. I don't really think about it terms of getting more liberal or conservative, just kinda settling down and thinking about things a little bit more, you know?

[Justin_stacy]

Its hard to care all that much when you go into a voting booth and see that your political choice is a battle between an empty suit and an empty head. Howdy, I'm excited. So long as they don't fuck with my family or my pay check to much, my attention tends to wander. I try to keep up, but indifference/disgust is an over powering force.

I think my wife would appreciate a good recipe if ya got one.

[zach]

Heh, that's excatly why I don't vote. I still get a lot of shit for it, but until a party produces a candidate worth voting for none of them are only going to get my support. It just encourages them.

I'm plenty happy to share recipies. What does your wife like?

[TomorrowTooLate]

I feel like this would be giving up a right that we hardly have, they could kill me today if they needed to

[Justin_stacy]

Heh, that's excatly why I don't vote. I still get a lot of shit for it, but until a party produces a candidate worth voting for none of them are only going to get my support. It just encourages them.

I'm plenty happy to share recipies. What does your wife like?

I went ahead and voted, but for once it was for a third party option. If its one thing that 'obama-mania' instilled in me is that we desperately need 'choice' like what you guys have up north. Not hundreds of parties, but 4 or 5 would be nice. I don't mind 'throwing my vote away' if I can walk out of the booth with my head held high, something Obama token's can't, and McCain/Palin back shouldn't. But enough of that.

I'm pretty much open to anything, I've been furloughed all year and been trying new stuff to no avail. Were not big veggie eaters, but I've been looking for like a homemade italian dish. I've yet to find something I've really happy with or can't ruin. Hell I didn't even ask what type of restaurant/cook you were.....what do you recommend?

(this (http://chicken.betterrecipes.com/spicy-chicken-over-pasta.html) interested us, but we can't find cherry chilli peppers here).

[paper halo]

I feel like this would be giving up a right that we hardly have, they could kill me today if they needed to

Wut?

[zach]

I went ahead and voted, but for once it was for a third party option. If its one thing that 'obama-mania' instilled in me is that we desperately need 'choice' like what you guys have up north. Not hundreds of parties, but 4 or 5 would be nice. I don't mind 'throwing my vote away' if I can walk out of the booth with my head held high, something Obama token's can't, and McCain/Palin back shouldn't. But enough of that.

I'm pretty much open to anything, I've been furloughed all year and been trying new stuff to no avail. Were not big veggie eaters, but I've been looking for like a homemade italian dish. I've yet to find something I've really happy with or can't ruin. Hell I didn't even ask what type of restaurant/cook you were.....what do you recommend?

(this (http://chicken.betterrecipes.com/spicy-chicken-over-pasta.html) interested us, but we can't find cherry chilli peppers here).

I work at a Carribean restaurant, but if I were to reccomend a dish here's what I would do:
First I'd take some chevre or an other soft goat's cheese and mix to together with some thyme, organo, maybe a little bit of dill and any other herbs or spices that you like. Then I'd take a couple of steaks, doesn't really matter what cut as long as its bonless, and beat the hell out of them with a tenderizer untill they're flat and sear them on both sides. You can marinade them first if you want, and I'd probably use a vingar and soy based marinade with some green onion and cilantro mixed in. After you've seared both sides of your flattend steakes, take your goat's cheese mixture and spoon a reasonable portion onto the steakes, roll the steakes up around it and tie them together with a green onion. You boil the green onion if it's too stiff to tie. Then if you want you can either wrap them in tinfoil and let them baste in their own juices inside the tinfoil, or put them in a pan with some of the marinade and let them cook in that. I like to cook at hot tempuratures, usually around 450, so I'd throw them in the oven for about 10 minutes or so, just to heat them through. I've only made this once before, and it's still an experimental recipie of mine, but the girl I made it for enjoyed it so much she even asked me to make her breakfast the next morning.

[Zeran]

the whole obam death panel idea is completely false. but if there were death panels, i would disagree with them. however, i would like to point out that people in their old age who are vegetables and still on life support and obviously are going to die very soon in any case, waste a ton of money for patients that can't get care because they're taking up a bed and valuable time/money/effort/care in the hospital.

[Justin_stacy]

I work at a Carribean restaurant, but if I were to reccomend a dish here's what I would do:
First I'd take some chevre or an other soft goat's cheese and mix to together with some thyme, organo, maybe a little bit of dill and any other herbs or spices that you like. Then I'd take a couple of steaks, doesn't really matter what cut as long as its bonless, and beat the hell out of them with a tenderizer untill they're flat and sear them on both sides. You can marinade them first if you want, and I'd probably use a vingar and soy based marinade with some green onion and cilantro mixed in. After you've seared both sides of your flattend steakes, take your goat's cheese mixture and spoon a reasonable portion onto the steakes, roll the steakes up around it and tie them together with a green onion. You boil the green onion if it's too stiff to tie. Then if you want you can either wrap them in tinfoil and let them baste in their own juices inside the tinfoil, or put them in a pan with some of the marinade and let them cook in that. I like to cook at hot tempuratures, usually around 450, so I'd throw them in the oven for about 10 minutes or so, just to heat them through. I've only made this once before, and it's still an experimental recipie of mine, but the girl I made it for enjoyed it so much she even asked me to make her breakfast the next morning.

sorry about not responding sooner, computers been in the shop for going on three weeks now. Anyways, I printed this off to use, seems simple enough for me. Never had goat cheese though, is it stronger than traditional cheeses? Or is it a texture thing?

[Skillen]

Only americans could have angry at giving millions of people FREE medical care. So they are using a panel in order to give out the care as effectively as possible. This is to people who other wise would be without treatment, where is the problem with that. So its not free health care for everyone but seeing as so many people are against this, mostly the same people that are against this panel, then this has to be an improvement over the current system.

Don't listen to Palin, she's an ignorant hypocrite.

[mattmatumbo]

Wut?

Seconded

[roisterboy]

This thread is bogus.

[Praetor]

This thread is bogus.
Detective Roisterboy on the case.

[nasnasington]

If you have read the book ... the elderly of any society is a burden and should be removed. We all love our grandparents, and mentally challenged kids ... but why would we continue to support such sad miserable lives? We put our beloved pets to sleep, why not the elderly and serverlly disabled childern?

Before everyone goes crazy on me ... let me tell you (2) examples I have personally experienced.

(1) My husbands Grandmother was on so many meds and incapabile of enjoying life for almost 4 years ... she thanked God at her death as well did her healthy husband, who was drained from her suffering for 4 years people .... Why does the gready healthcare system allow this ... let people die when they are supposed to stop trying to hold on to life when it is over. Let those who are still healthy enjoy their lives and remember you in you happy days .. not your final days when they were changing your diapers and watching you die slowly before their eyes. This is wrong!

(2) I was in and out of Childrens hospitals my whole child hood due to a birth defect, which was corrected by STEM CELL research .. or the devil according to Christian coalition. I watched kids who were miserable ... trapped in wheelchairs,unwanted since their parents never came to see them ... kids that had no control over their body and drool was the highlight of the day. Then there was Jessica, beautiful 16 year girl, who was shot in the spine by her mother's boyfriend ... she lost control of everything except her left shoulder and arm. I would talk to her (she had a speak and spell kind of talk machine) and she would beg to die ... after the children's hospital she was to be transfered to a assisted living community. She cried everytime she had to have her diaper changed .. life for her was over ... no if and of buts ... Even at 12 I new this was F*** Up.

My point being, let the death panel begin ... Stop trying to live forever, and remember in Sparta only the strong survive. Let us be human again... we should welcome death, in the circle of everything it is neither the begining or the end.

[nasnasington]

If you have read the book ... the elderly of any society is a burden and should be removed. We all love our grandparents, and mentally challenged kids ... but why would we continue to support such sad miserable lives? We put our beloved pets to sleep, why not the elderly and serverlly disabled childern?

Before everyone goes crazy on me ... let me tell you (2) examples I have personally experienced.

(1) My husbands Grandmother was on so many meds and incapabile of enjoying life for almost 4 years ... she thanked God at her death as well did her healthy husband, who was drained from her suffering for 4 years people .... Why does the gready healthcare system allow this ... let people die when they are supposed to stop trying to hold on to life when it is over. Let those who are still healthy enjoy their lives and remember you in you happy days .. not your final days when they were changing your diapers and watching you die slowly before their eyes. This is wrong!

(2) I was in and out of Childrens hospitals my whole child hood due to a birth defect, which was corrected by STEM CELL research .. or the devil according to Christian coalition. I watched kids who were miserable ... trapped in wheelchairs,unwanted since their parents never came to see them ... kids that had no control over their body and drool was the highlight of the day. Then there was Jessica, beautiful 16 year girl, who was shot in the spine by her mother's boyfriend ... she lost control of everything except her left shoulder and arm. I would talk to her (she had a speak and spell kind of talk machine) and she would beg to die ... after the children's hospital she was to be transfered to a assisted living community. She cried everytime she had to have her diaper changed .. life for her was over ... no if and of buts ... Even at 12 I new this was F*** Up.

My point being, let the death panel begin ... Stop trying to live forever, and remember in Sparta only the strong survive. Let us be human again... we should welcome death, in the circle of everything it is neither the begining or the end.

[Codi23]

What the... shit just got REAL.

[vodyanoj]

If you have read the book ... the elderly of any society is a burden and should be removed. We all love our grandparents, and mentally challenged kids ... but why would we continue to support such sad miserable lives? We put our beloved pets to sleep, why not the elderly and serverlly disabled childern?

Before everyone goes crazy on me ... let me tell you (2) examples I have personally experienced.

(1) My husbands Grandmother was on so many meds and incapabile of enjoying life for almost 4 years ... she thanked God at her death as well did her healthy husband, who was drained from her suffering for 4 years people .... Why does the gready healthcare system allow this ... let people die when they are supposed to stop trying to hold on to life when it is over. Let those who are still healthy enjoy their lives and remember you in you happy days .. not your final days when they were changing your diapers and watching you die slowly before their eyes. This is wrong!

(2) I was in and out of Childrens hospitals my whole child hood due to a birth defect, which was corrected by STEM CELL research .. or the devil according to Christian coalition. I watched kids who were miserable ... trapped in wheelchairs,unwanted since their parents never came to see them ... kids that had no control over their body and drool was the highlight of the day. Then there was Jessica, beautiful 16 year girl, who was shot in the spine by her mother's boyfriend ... she lost control of everything except her left shoulder and arm. I would talk to her (she had a speak and spell kind of talk machine) and she would beg to die ... after the children's hospital she was to be transfered to a assisted living community. She cried everytime she had to have her diaper changed .. life for her was over ... no if and of buts ... Even at 12 I new this was F*** Up.

My point being, let the death panel begin ... Stop trying to live forever, and remember in Sparta only the strong survive. Let us be human again... we should welcome death, in the circle of everything it is neither the begining or the end.


Not necessarily disagreeing with the conclusion, but you use a bad word in the beginning: "should". Nobody ahs the right to decide the fate of the individual except for that individual; and the individual herself should have ALL the rights in the world. That is why I fully support assisted suicide laws, for example.

[someguy03]

i aint a fan of them healthcare reform queers, them senators aint gonna start no death panels and dun kill my family i tell you what

[ZzyzxScarecrow]

I am for sure. I think my biggest problem, though, is access to these programs for the young. Why is it just the seniors that should be put to death by their government? The way I see it, an unproductive 55-year-old should have the same right to be put to death as an old person.

/Stewart'd 'em

So do unproductive 15 year olds. Seriously, go do your school work or something. If we resort to death panels, who decides who's productive and who isn't?

Yes.
There are plenty of reasons to get people comfortable and ready for death rather than to arbitrarily keep medicating them when it's a drain and an ultimate futile gesture.
I agree with you about ending futile medication, but I don't think death panels are the answer. Just let death happen naturally, without some incompetent government employee sitting at there big oak desk in Washington dictating who deserves their life and who doesn't.

Absolutely. Post-birth abortions are something we need more of in this country.

OK. Let's start with your parents and significant other and any close friends you may have.

i support this, but only for the unproductive and idiotic. See: OP

A death panel wouldn't be productive by any stretch, so by that logic, if we adopt death panels, we should put the death panel to death. It would just be another big government induced waste of time, money, and life.

[Machu505]

OK. Let's start with your parents and significant other and any close friends you may have.
Agreed completely. I was thinking the same thing!

[lauren<3s music]

So do unproductive 15 year olds. Seriously, go do your school work or something. If we resort to death panels, who decides who's productive and who isn't?


I agree with you about ending futile medication, but I don't think death panels are the answer. Just let death happen naturally, without some incompetent government employee sitting at there big oak desk in Washington dictating who deserves their life and who doesn't.



OK. Let's start with your parents and significant other and any close friends you may have.



A death panel wouldn't be productive by any stretch, so by that logic, if we adopt death panels, we should put the death panel to death. It would just be another big government induced waste of time, money, and life.
um, you should probably learn to pick up on sarcasm.

[ZzyzxScarecrow]

um, you should probably learn to pick up on sarcasm.
My bad. I'm not very adept at picking up on that over the internet.

[lauren<3s music]

My bad. I'm not very adept at picking up on that over the internet.
it's okay, you'll get the hang of it.

[Codi23]

Okay, so this thread has drawn a bunch of people who lack sarcasm, humor, or hearts. Thank you, OP. Distract them for as long as you can.

(psssst, this thread was built on sarcasm; some of you are way too serious in expressing your disdain/love for death panels. It's a joke, stfu).