Best Shortstop of All Time

[Chris M.]

Poll coming.

[mht]

hasn't A-Rod played 3rd base the last 6 years? so wouldnt it be 1994-2003 for him?

[The Summer Ends]

ozzie smith

maybe i'm biased as a cardinals fan

edit: if you vote for derek jeter you should feel bad

[Big_Guy]

Honus Wagner

[xbrokendownx]

ozzie smith

maybe i'm biased as a cardinals fan

edit: if you vote for derek jeter you should feel bad





haha so its OK to vote for Ozzie but if you vote for Jeter you should feel bad?

most hits ever by a shortstop.

[walshknilb281]

jeter garbage, hes usually placido palanco with 2 more homeruns, he is having a career year this year though

[The Summer Ends]

haha so its OK to vote for Ozzie but if you vote for Jeter you should feel bad?

most hits ever by a shortstop.
most overrated shortstop ever

[xbrokendownx]

jeter garbage, hes usually placido palanco with 2 more homeruns, he is having a career year this year though

most overrated shortstop ever




Derek Jeter's career statistics:

.317/.387/.459/.846, 221 HR, 1058 RBI, 2699 hits (most all time by any shortstop)



Placido Polanco's career statistics:

.303/.347/.413/.760, 87 HR, 560 RBI, 1620 hits


yea exactly the same!!!

[walshknilb281]

Derek Jeter's career statistics:

.317/.387/.459/.846, 221 HR, 1058 RBI, 2699 hits (most all time by any shortstop)



Placido Polanco's career statistics:

.303/.347/.413/.760, 87 HR, 560 RBI, 1620 hits


yea exactly the same!!!
if jeter played anywhere else he'd be a nobody. Doesn't hurt 200 of those homeruns have went 311 feet

[xbrokendownx]

hahaha youre such a dumbass

typical sox fan

[wroteurname]

if jeter played anywhere else he'd be a nobody. Doesn't hurt 200 of those homeruns have went 311 feet:-|

[walshknilb281]

hahaha youre such a dumbass

typical sox fan
i really am, i just hate derek jeter, i know hes good, but i still think he's overrated. I'll give him his standing O when he comes to Fenway for the last time, until then i'll hate him and his fist pumps after singles, his miraculous catches where he catches balls in fair territory and proceeds to dive into the stands, his seeing eye singles, and 300 foot homeruns that would be a routine flyball in every other ball park. I am just bitter.

check out www.barstoolsports.com (http://www.barstoolsports.com) for some good laughs and red sox yankee trash talk. Boston run blog that just opened a second brand dedicated to New York sports news

[walshknilb281]

and btw, i voted for A-Rod even thougjh i hate him more than jeter

[wroteurname]

hahaha youre such a dumbass

typical sox fan

I'm a pretty bad Sox fan and I DO NOT endorse that kind of behavior.

[Ben09]

So you guys basically just take into account batting statistics and not how well they were on defense?...no surprise.

[poppa Q]

So you guys basically just take into account batting statistics and not how well they were on defense?...no surprise.
I would say this is clearly not the case, considering Ozzie Smith is the leading vote getter in this here poll and he's most known for his defense (and flips).

[Bob Payne]

Gotta go with Ozzie Smith for pure defensive ability. Not many people win a gold glove when they're pushing 40.

[poppa Q]

Oh and I hate the Yankees but I really like Jeter. Guy's just a class act and plays the game the right way. He's not the best shortstop of all time, but it's certainly fair for him to be in the discussion.

[Ben09]

I would say this is clearly not the case, considering Ozzie Smith is the leading vote getter in this here poll and he's most known for his defense (and flips).

My comment was mainly towards the people voting for Jeter. When A-Rod played shortstop he was better than Jeter.

And yes, Smith> the rest

[poppa Q]

My comment was mainly towards the people voting for Jeter. When A-Rod played shortstop he was better than Jeter.

And yes, Smith> the rest
Right on. I would agree with that, too, but Jeter's still pretty solid defensively.

[duhpunk]

I gotta throw in an honorable mention: Luke Appling
.310/.398/.399/.798 45 HR, 1116 RBI, 2749 Hits, 1319 Runs

also has the highest single season avg for a shortstop at .388

[screamoutmyname]

Rey Ordonez

[Flags of Dawn]

if jeter played anywhere else he'd be a nobody. Doesn't hurt 200 of those homeruns have went 311 feet
wowwwwwwwwwwwww.

[startBBtoday]

i really am, i just hate derek jeter, i know hes good, but i still think he's overrated. I'll give him his standing O when he comes to Fenway for the last time, until then i'll hate him and his fist pumps after singles, his miraculous catches where he catches balls in fair territory and proceeds to dive into the stands, his seeing eye singles, and 300 foot homeruns that would be a routine flyball in every other ball park. I am just bitter.

check out www.barstoolsports.com (http://www.barstoolsports.com) for some good laughs and red sox yankee trash talk. Boston run blog that just opened a second brand dedicated to New York sports news

that site is horrible and you really are proving yourself to be an idiot boston fan. i wouldn't vote for jeter, but he's had a great career and definitely doesn't just get credit because he's on the yankees.

i'll probably go with wagner on this one

[baseballfreak19]

anyone who voted for jeter is an idiot. he has the worst range in the majors, which is kind of important for a shortstop. hes nothing special as a defensive short stop. ill give him credit though, hes having a great year on offense.

[dignan]

Honus Wagner

[Chris M.]

I voted for Wagner. Would have voted for A-Rod without hesitation if he hadn't moved to third.

[derekmoyer4]

Gotta go with Ozzie Smith for pure defensive ability. Not many people win a gold glove when they're pushing 40.
that is who i went with. although wagner was a better hitter. but i was under the assumption it was meant to be more defensively oriented.

[bigmike]

Wow. Can't believe Honus Wagner's losing in this vote. He wins it for me, but on a per-season basis it's very close with A-Rod.

Arky Vaughan doesn't get enough love, either.

[CarouselBoy]

anyone who voted for jeter is an idiot. he has the worst range in the majors, which is kind of important for a shortstop. hes nothing special as a defensive short stop. ill give him credit though, hes having a great year on offense.

only in the past few years. He is getting old after all.

This should def go to Honus Wagner though. He killed Ozzie in every offense category and as far as I know he was solid on defense. Not like ozzie but still solid.

[Jeremy Aaron]

I went with Wagner, but I think you could make a strong case for Ripken. While I don't think he's the best, I'm surprised no one's gone with Larkin, especially with all the votes Ozzie's getting. He was a solid .300 hitter, had some power but was inconsistent with it, stole bases with a high success rate, never struck out, and was great defensively. For most of his career, Ozzie's only offensive contribution was speed on the basepaths.

[bigmike]

If Barry Larkin gets votes, then Alan Trammell should be on the list to get the same amount of votes.

[J.C.]

A-Roid.

[J.C.]

Ozzie has no business having that many votes.

[JJtrackie716]

anyone who voted for jeter is an idiot. he has the worst range in the majors, which is kind of important for a shortstop. hes nothing special as a defensive short stop. ill give him credit though, hes having a great year on offense.

You're making it sound like Jeter is a horrible fielder which just isn't the case. He has a career .976 fielding percentage. Jeter makes a majority of the plays that he gets to. Not to mention his clutch hitting and there is no one else I would rather have at the plate with the game on the line.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithoz01.shtml?redir these are Ozzie Smith's stats and here are Derek Jeter's http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeterde01.shtml?redir. Derek's stats are pretty much the same if not better in some categories to this point in his career.

[JJtrackie716]

[quote=walshknilb281;52297572]jeter garbage, hes usually placido palanco with 2 more homeruns, he is having a career year this year though[/quote

Derek Jeter > Placido Polanco > any Red Sox shortstop in recent memory, and this isn't even his best year so it's hardly a "career year" for him.



Polanco is also a second baseman so i'm not really sure why you brought him up

[J.C.]

Jeter's below average defensively and I don't even see how that's debatable. What the hell is 'makes a majority of the plays he gets to'? That describes virtually every major league baseball player ever.

[QuikTrig]

Ozzie has no business having that many votes.

i personally don't think anyone has any business getting any votes over honus wagner.

[startBBtoday]

You're making it sound like Jeter is a horrible fielder which just isn't the case. He has a career .976 fielding percentage. Jeter makes a majority of the plays that he gets to. Not to mention his clutch hitting and there is no one else I would rather have at the plate with the game on the line.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithoz01.shtml?redir these are Ozzie Smith's stats and here are Derek Jeter's http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeterde01.shtml?redir. Derek's stats are pretty much the same if not better in some categories to this point in his career.

hahaha, yes you're correct, jeter does have a fielding percentage over .500

[phil19]

repping my man Jeter

[QuikTrig]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/08/18/2009-08-18_is_derek_jeter_baseballs_best_hi tting.html

are you kidding me? is that a real article?

and this poll is a joke. ozzie smith only 2 votes behind fuckin honus wagner? jeter in third? arod tied for fourth? omar vizquel has a vote? what the fuck.

[TurbulentCo]

Jeter is a winner and has dealt with a lot of shit playing for the Yankees, but I go with Ripken personally because he is what baseball is all about and he is a Jr. like me.

[wroteurname]

Jeter's below average defensively and I don't even see how that's debatable. What the hell is 'makes a majority of the plays he gets to'? That describes virtually every major league baseball player ever.

I agree with this. It's like saying a janitor cleans up the majority of spills in a hallway. Kind of his job.

[fightinirish217]

Did I vote for Jeter just to annoy people? Yes. Do I think he's the greatest SS ever? No. He's my favorite player in the game, he's the captain of my team, and he's really been a hero my whole life, so of course I'll be biased towards him.

The arguments against Jeter, and the hate/bitterness by opposing fans will never cease to amaze me. Thankfully, even more opposing fans realize just how great of a ballplayer he is. He represents everything that's right about baseball. When it comes down to it, just go look at the straight stats and credentials, that's all there is to it. There's no denying he has had one of the greatest SS careers ever. He is one of the greatest Yankees ever, that's certainly saying something.

Those 4 WS rings don't lie either.

Honus Wagner takes this poll though.

[+thecalisonme]

8 votes for Jeter oh my

[eags2]

basically it comes down to this.

OZZIE SMITH greatest fielding position player of all time. this guys range was off the charts. but if it came down to big games, clutch, and day in a day out going all out for your team ive gotta go with jeter as well

[+thecalisonme]

the idea of jeter being clutch is a myth

[aloneatlastnj]

if jeter played anywhere else he'd be a nobody.

wowwww. how about before you make a statement like that you do some fucking research.

jeter is most definitely not the best hitting SS ever, although he is almost certainly in the top 5. the problem with judging jeter at this point is that his career is not over, in that he has not gone through a decline phase yet, and other players are being penalized for having moved off SS while jeter has not reached that point in his career. however, being that derek is unlikely to play another position for an extended period, let us consider only the players who spent a considerable portion of their career at SS.

for example, players like ernie banks, robin yount, george davis, and alex rodriguez would all have legitimate arguments to be ahead of jeter, but none lasted at SS past the age of 30. this is going to be a rudimentary analysis, so correct me if I make any errors. remember, we are considering offense only.fFurthermore, a player like luke appling would likely be on this list if not for missing time due to WWII. because i am not sure how to correct for that, i'm just going to use career totals, which sadly leaves appling off (sorry duhpunk).

honus wagner: career numbers: .327/.391/.466 OPS+: 150 5 best (full) years by OPS+: 205, 187, 186, 176, 175

joe cronin: career numbers: .301/.390/.468 OPS+: 119 5 best years by OPS+: 138, 136, 135, 129, 127

arky vaughan: career numbers: .318/.406/.453 OPS+: 136 5 best years by OPS+: 190, 149, 148, 146, 140

lou boudreau: career numbers: .295/.380/.415 OPS+: 120 5 best years by OPS+: 164, 145, 133, 131, 128

cal ripken: career numbers: .276/.340/.447 OPS+: 112 5 best years by OPS+: 162, 145, 144, 143, 128

derek jeter: career numbers: .317/.387/.459 OPS+: 121 5 best years by OPS+: 153, 132, 128, 127, 126

one note: looking at 5 best seasons by OPS+ does not exactly do jeter justice, as much of his value is caught up in his consistency. his 6-10 best years are likely better than those years for most of the players on this list.that being said, i think we can reach a few conclusions.

1) honus wagner is the best hitting SS of all time, and arky vaughan is second.

2) cal ripken stuck around way too long, and his decline was substantial enough to knock him out of the top 5 in terms of offensive value.

3) jeter is right there in the next group with boudreau and cronin, rounding out the top 5, and an argument can be made for jeter as #3 if you place career value over peak.

conclusion: among players who remained at SS for the bulk of their careers, derek jeter is no higher than 3rd but is likely no lower than 5th (unless i missed somebody) in terms of hitting.


went with wagner on this one.

[QuikTrig]

jeter is no doubt a first ballot and all-time great (i would have him somewhere from 5-7) , but for him to be getting this many votes as the best shortstop of all time is just stupid. good post though.

pop lloyd should be included in the list, if josh gibson was included in the catchers poll. he would be just behind a-rod in my opinion, and above everyone else on this list. sucks that no official stats are available to compare, but from what i've read, he was considered THE best shortstop of his time, and mentioned in the same breath as wagner, ruth, gehrig...

wagner is in a category of his own. he is a potential top 3 player of all-time, any position, and should win this poll unanimously.

Here's something to look at - Run Created Over Position (which is the average production of the position of their time)
Honus Wagner 1060
Arky Vaughan 598
Alex Rodriguez 506
Barry Larkin 488
George Davis 452
Joe Cronin 431
Cal Ripken 408
Robin Yount 408
Luke Appling 375
Alan Trammell 365

That in itself should show you how dominant Wagner was. Jeter doesn't even make the cut. This is a couple years old, but i highly doubt jeter has climbed up significantly. am i arguing that jeter is worse than most of these guys? no. but he has never really been an absolute beast when it came to dominating the league and his peers. he was always really really good...but was he ever the best? i would say no. and that in itself disqualifies him from being the best of all time. not even close.

[Chris M.]

You have to consider the era Wagner played in though. The reason he's so much higher on that list is because of other shortstops that played during his time - none (ok, maybe 2 or 3) of them can hold a candle to the shortstops that A-Rod and Jeter are playing against. Jeter shouldn't be punished because the shortstops he plays against are superior.

[QuikTrig]

You have to consider the era Wagner played in though. The reason he's so much higher on that list is because of other shortstops that played during his time - none (ok, maybe 2 or 3) of them can hold a candle to the shortstops that A-Rod and Jeter are playing against. Jeter shouldn't be punished because the shortstops he plays against are superior.

i'm not so much penalizing jeter as i am adding bonus points to wagner. it's similar to how people commonly reference babe ruth hitting more home runs than an entire league. it was a product of the times -- but still a tremendous feat and cool to talk about. add in that the position thing doesn't even really apply to wagner; compare him to ALL players of his time, and he's still head and shoulders above the rest.

for an entire decade, he was the best hitter, runner, and glove in the league. i'm not sure that's ever happened before. i don't really have a personal system of doing league-quality adjustments, but like you, i'm not a fan of penalizing people because they play with better or worse people. i think comparing different eras is completely subjective, but relative stats are a fair way to do it. and the way wagner dominated his peers was unprecedented.

like i said, jeters a great player. but we're comparing an all-time great shortstop to one of the top 5 baseball players, period. wagner should win unanimously.

[bigmike]

You have to consider the era Wagner played in though. The reason he's so much higher on that list is because of other shortstops that played during his time - none (ok, maybe 2 or 3) of them can hold a candle to the shortstops that A-Rod and Jeter are playing against. Jeter shouldn't be punished because the shortstops he plays against are superior.
Yeah you do, because Wagner was so rare in his days.

[alltimecam]

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200807113113172
why jeter is the best.

Ok maybe not the best, but he is one classy mother fucker

[3eb23]

why are these polls closed already? my vote woulda gone to Ripken

[bigmike]

why are these polls closed already? my vote woulda gone to Ripken
Polls are probably closed because you were going to vote for Ripken.

[CarlosLunes]

Lol barstool sports, kill yourself