View Full Version : Gun Control and the 2nd Amendment (Official Thread)
Machu505
08/23/09, 09:50 PM
Surprised there isn't already a thread on this. Oh well.
What are your opinions on firearms and the like? Do they make society more safe or more dangerous? Should we have more restrictions but keep the general idea? You, AP.net, decide!
saysmydoctor
08/23/09, 09:52 PM
Assault weapons should be outright banned. Completely. Stricter regulation, much tougher consequences. It's 2009, not 1776. The 2nd Amendment isn't modern.
Assault weapons should be outright banned. Completely. Stricter regulation, much tougher consequences. It's 2009, not 1776. The 2nd Amendment isn't modern.
this completely sums up my thoughts.
Assault weapons should be outright banned. Completely. Stricter regulation, much tougher consequences. It's 2009, not 1776. The 2nd Amendment isn't modern.
this.
Any idiot who thinks a well-armed militia will ever be able to stand up to the U.S. government's arsenal should think again.
Any idiot who thinks having a gun in his holster will automatically give him the balls and the knowledge to stop any crimes most likely should think again.
End of story.
Machu505
08/23/09, 10:14 PM
I need a discussion in here. Everybody stop agreeing.
saysmydoctor
08/23/09, 10:15 PM
I always found liberals were so against gun rights and not conservatives to be fairly odd. Anybody want to explain this conundrum to me?
alright then
the write to bare arms was wrote in the original constitution that our fourfathers signed. the revolution was won because we had a militia. guns dont kill people, people kill people, etc etc
Machu505
08/23/09, 10:20 PM
I always found liberals were so against gun rights and not conservatives to be fairly odd. Anybody want to explain this conundrum to me?
Conservatives in America are largely "STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY CONSTITUTION", and any change to the Constitution would be deemed as a change to the status quo. The right has always been inherently resistent to something new and different.
saysmydoctor
08/23/09, 10:21 PM
I know, but it never made any sense. Conservatives generally spout a crime control model as well, guns play into crime, you think they would seek to control that.
Everything about the right confuses me.
Assault weapons should be outright banned.
Not saying I disagree, but what's your reasoning?
Machu505
08/23/09, 10:27 PM
I know, but it never made any sense. Conservatives generally spout a crime control model as well, guns play into crime, you think they would seek to control that.
Everything about the right confuses me.
Well conservatives are also mostly opposed to all modern and non-literalist interpretations of the Constitution. The 2nd Amendment is in there, and therefore is to be followed literally. That's how they see it.
And for what it's worth, I largely support a crime control model and minor gun rights as well. Was your mind just esploded?
saysmydoctor
08/23/09, 10:31 PM
Not saying I disagree, but what's your reasoning?
There is no reason whatsoever anyone needs these. They are utterly useless. Police as well. If you are a hunter, a normal rifle will kill a deer/whatever just as well. The hunting excuse is tired.
Well conservatives are also mostly opposed to all modern and non-literalist interpretations of the Constitution. The 2nd Amendment is in there, and therefore is to be followed literally. That's how they see it.
And for what it's worth, I largely support a crime control model and minor gun rights as well. Was your mind just esploded?
Over the due process model?
Machu505
08/23/09, 10:33 PM
There is no reason whatsoever anyone needs these. They are utterly useless. Police as well. If you are a hunter, a normal rifle will kill a deer/whatever just as well. The hunting excuse is tired.
Over the due process model?
Explain? I'm not too sure what the particular debate is, honestly. I'm just making it make sense in my mind haha.
There is no reason whatsoever anyone needs these. They are utterly useless.
This isn't sound reasoning, like, at all to me. Again, not saying I disagree that they should be banned, but this is silly. You're basically saying I don't want one, so they should be banned.
Machu505
08/23/09, 10:38 PM
This isn't sound reasoning, like, at all to me. Again, not saying I disagree that they should be banned, but this is silly. You're basically saying I don't want one, so they should be banned.
No, what's being said is a regular gun does the trick. What's the use for one that does the same thing just at a higher speed?
saysmydoctor
08/23/09, 10:38 PM
Explain? I'm not too sure what the particular debate is, honestly. I'm just making it make sense in my mind haha.
Due process of law vs. crime control? Two different models of criminal justice.
This isn't sound reasoning, like, at all to me. Again, not saying I disagree that they should be banned, but this is silly. You're basically saying I don't want one, so they should be banned.
It's not that I don't want one, it's that these assault rifles serve no purpose. There is no rationale to own them whatsoever. Not to mention, the paperwork behind them is nonexistent, they get resold, they go to these organized crime groups, and people die.
No, what's being said is a regular gun does the trick. What's the use for one that does the same thing just at a higher speed?
It's not that I don't want one, it's that these assault rifles serve no purpose. There is no rationale to own them whatsoever. Not to mention, the paperwork behind them is nonexistent, they get resold, they go to these organized crime groups, and people die.
Some people like to go and shoot assault rifles at targets for the thrill. I've never done it, but I assume it's a lot different from a normal gun. One person's hobby may be to drive high-class, high-speed cars, another person's may be to shoot high-class, high-speed guns.
saysmydoctor
08/23/09, 10:47 PM
Cars aren't weapons.
I mean, car accidents are common and cars are dangerous, but that is an unintended consequence. Guns are designed to kill.
Machu505
08/23/09, 10:52 PM
Due process of law vs. crime control? Two different models of criminal justice.
I see. I must've read your post wrong. The process of law gets my support but I'm suspicious of things like rehabilitation. Criminal justice is one of the few issues where my stance would be considered conservative.
Cars aren't weapons.
I mean, car accidents are common and cars are dangerous, but that is an unintended consequence. Guns are designed to kill.
No, guns are designed to shoot, knives are designed to cut, and dynamite is designed to explode. Stop using emotional language in place of justification.
What you do with a car, what you do with a gun, defines what the "intended" consequence of the object is. I have the chance to run someone over every single day, very easily, in my car if I wanted to. In fact, it would be a lot easier than killing someone with a gun, probably. More people (like 40k) are killed in car accidents than by guns (31k, and half these are suicides).
saysmydoctor
08/23/09, 11:09 PM
No, guns are designed to shoot, knives are designed to cut, and dynamite is designed to explode. Stop using emotional language in place of justification.
What you do with a car, what you do with a gun, defines what the "intended" consequence of the object is. I have the chance to run someone over every single day, very easily, in my car if I wanted to. In fact, it would be a lot easier than killing someone with a gun, probably. More people (like 40k) are killed in car accidents than by guns (31k, and half these are suicides).
How much of that is crime related, the car accidents? There may have been fault of the accident on someone, but what they caused was still an accident? They've made rules around cars to ensure safety.
Guns are easy to access, are getting cheaper and cheaper, and more and more available. Not to say cars aren't, but at the same time--the laws are being followed, created to maintain as much safety as possible. How many gun crimes are accidental?
How much of that is crime related, the car accidents? There may have been fault of the accident on someone, but what they caused was still an accident? They've made rules around cars to ensure safety.
Guns are easy to access, are getting cheaper and cheaper, and more and more available. Not to say cars aren't, but at the same time--the laws are being followed, created to maintain as much safety as possible. How many gun crimes are accidental?
23,237, according to wiki, were accidental in 2000. That's actually only like three times as much as aspirin and similar drugs.
Sic Transit Zeb
08/23/09, 11:25 PM
23,237, according to wiki, were accidental in 2000. That's actually only like three times as much as aspirin and similar drugs.
3 times is a lot.
But i do agree with you. I don't htink guns should be outlawed, I just feel they should be better regulated.
australia... guns are illegal... murders per capita 0.00293678 per 1,000 people
america... guns are legal... murders per capita 0.0279271 per 1,000 people
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita
its just that obvious.
The Summer Ends
08/24/09, 12:06 AM
i like guns they are fun to shoot and i like hunting that is my stance on the issue
cowboychris88
08/24/09, 12:08 AM
on the murder rate, that really means nothing, lots of murders do not involve a gun. too noisy. if someone wants to get a gun for illegal purposes, they will obtain one, legally or illegally it doesnt matter, they will get it.
i don't know how many people posting in here have EVER shot a firearm. i enjoy it a lot actually, it teaches responsibility and respect. nothing makes you more cautious and aware than when you have the ability to kill someone. when you go to a shooting range, everyone is on their best behavior, any slip up and they won't hesitate to kick you out. i dont hunt, because i dont think i could kill anything, so my time with firearms is limited to just the range.
granted, some states make it easy for people to purchase guns, texas and arizona mainly, and i think they should be more regulated.
shooting is just like any sport, requires skill and it really can be a challenge. some of the best times i have ever had are going to the range with my dad. and for the day when zombies attack, we have full arsenal to protect ourselves. i cant wait.
x togepi x
08/24/09, 12:10 AM
gun control. awesome idea! we totally only want the government and police with their awesome record on human rights to have weapons.
saysmydoctor
08/24/09, 12:54 AM
gun control. awesome idea! we totally only want the government and police with their awesome record on human rights to have weapons.
I don't want them having them either, frankly.
gun control. awesome idea! we totally only want the government and police with their awesome record on human rights to have weapons.
No matter what they're going to have bigger and better weapons than you. The only way the general populace would be able to stand any chance against the government if it ever came down to open hostilities like the kind you're alluding to would be to take the government's weapons by force and use the against them; in which case gun control would really become a non issue because such a feat could only be accomplished by useing already illegal weapons (e.g. IEDs).
open mind
08/24/09, 03:03 AM
assault weapons have no place in society.....unless you think having a unused gun collection is worth worse violence around the (government created) drug war, increasing chances for horrifying massacres, and less overall security in broader society.
pistols aside from killing people don't have an incredible amount of use aside from maybe shooting a charging bear, so i probably wouldn't be up in arms if they were further regulated.
hunting rifles, shotguns, and the like should be left alone....it's ridiculous to me that i know people who face the fear of being put in jail for 5-10 years because they choose to live a traditional subsistence lifestyle after being convicted of non-violent and/or non-gun-related crimes.
Praetor
08/24/09, 06:14 AM
I believe in the second amendment. I really do. I believe in the basic right to own weapons and I believe it has its place of importance among other Constitutional rights such as free speech, due process, etc. That being said, do you really need to buy more than one gun per month? Or, do you really need to own an automatic weapon?
Midget Pirates
08/24/09, 08:35 AM
I know, but it never made any sense. Conservatives generally spout a crime control model as well, guns play into crime, you think they would seek to control that.
Everything about the right confuses me.
Conservatives would argue that there are statistics that show lower crime rates in areas with more lenient concealed carry and gun control laws. On the flip side, in places with stricter gun control laws, crime rate seems to rise.
secretsociety92
08/24/09, 08:58 AM
There are way too many guns out there to think about trying to ban or regulate them, I agree that people should be allowed to defend themselves but having an entire armoury in your house isn't necessary.
Machu505
08/24/09, 09:05 AM
Conservatives would argue that there are statistics that show lower crime rates in areas with more lenient concealed carry and gun control laws. On the flip side, in places with stricter gun control laws, crime rate seems to rise.
For states, it seems that gun control laws have little effect on crime rates:
The 2009 State Crime Rate Rankings (http://os.cqpress.com/rankings/CrimeStateRankings_2009.pdf)
1. New Hampshire
2. Vermont
3. Maine
...
48. South Carolina
49. Louisiana
50. Nevada
All these states have similar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_%28by _state%29#South_Carolina) gun control laws, and I could just as easily say--from this information--that a state's gay marriage laws lead to lower crime rates.
I live in Philadelphia, where people don't hunt deer or ferrets , but rather, children, parents, family members, and friends.
Please, we need gun control.
Midget Pirates
08/24/09, 09:12 AM
For states, it seems that gun control laws have little effect on crime rates:
The 2009 State Crime Rate Rankings (http://os.cqpress.com/rankings/CrimeStateRankings_2009.pdf)
1. New Hampshire
2. Vermont
3. Maine
...
48. South Carolina
49. Louisiana
50. Nevada
All these states have similar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_%28by _state%29#South_Carolina) gun control laws, and I could just as easily say--from this information--that a state's gay marriage laws lead to lower crime rates.
New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine's low crime stats probably has to do more with their lack of urban areas more than it has to do with the gun laws they employ. and that kind of goes into your point. There are so many factors to look at with crime rates that have nothing to do with guns or gun control laws at all. What I want to see are studies that show violent crime with guns in specific areas and how changing of gun laws in either direction has had an effect on the rate of violent crime in that area.
Machu505
08/24/09, 09:18 AM
New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine's low crime stats probably has to do more with their lack of urban areas more than it has to do with the gun laws they employ. and that kind of goes into your point. There are so many factors to look at with crime rates that have nothing to do with guns or gun control laws at all. What I want to see are studies that show violent crime with guns in specific areas and how changing of gun laws in either direction has had an effect on the rate of violent crime in that area.
Well, for what it's worth, New York City is the safest large city (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/06/05/americas_safest_cities_96815.html) in the US whereas Memphis is the least safe. New York has very strict gun laws and Tennessee has very lax.
caveBEAR
08/24/09, 10:58 AM
I believe in the second amendment. I really do. I believe in the basic right to own weapons and I believe it has its place of importance among other Constitutional rights such as free speech, due process, etc. That being said, do you really need to buy more than one gun per month? Or, do you really need to own an automatic weapon?
This is exactly how I feel. You better believe when I have a family I will have a handgun. Shit happens, and I pray that I will never, ever have to use the hypothetical weapon I will own in the future, but it is there to protect you if needed.
THAT SAID, I agree that assault weapons need to go to the wayside, for no other reason than that there is no reason for it. If you can't kill it with a handgun, kill it with fire. If fire doesn't kill it, it will kill you.
This is exactly how I feel. You better believe when I have a family I will have a handgun. Shit happens, and I pray that I will never, ever have to use the hypothetical weapon I will own in the future, but it is there to protect you if needed.
THAT SAID, I agree that assault weapons need to go to the wayside, for no other reason than that there is no reason for it. If you can't kill it with a handgun, kill it with fire. If fire doesn't kill it, it will kill you.
Statistically, if you buy a handgun, you and your family's odds of being involved in a situation where it may be "needed" automatically goes up.
Animalhill
08/24/09, 01:07 PM
Statistically, if you buy a handgun, you and your family's odds of being involved in a situation where it may be "needed" automatically goes up.
True. Unless, of course, you are living in an area with a high crime rate- like Philly. When I move there, I will most certainly own a registered handgun.
Jefferson Rank
08/24/09, 01:12 PM
I live in Philadelphia, where people don't hunt deer or ferrets , but rather, children, parents, family members, and friends.
Please, we need gun control.
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Who hunts ferrets now?
Animalhill
08/24/09, 01:13 PM
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Who hunts ferrets now?
:-d Mall pet stores?
Jefferson Rank
08/24/09, 01:14 PM
:-d Mall pet stores?
I can just see the carnage now. how would you manage to shoot the thing anyway, though? they're so skinny!
True. Unless, of course, you are living in an area with a high crime rate- like Philly. When I move there, I will most certainly own a registered handgun.
I'm all about educated, safe ownership of a handgun as a means to feel more secure in one's home.
What I'm not about is owning an arsenal just to prove your masculinity, or just to spite the "guvment". Sadly, the latter seems to be far more prevalent than the former.
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Who hunts ferrets now?
:-d Band name. Definite band name.
Animalhill
08/24/09, 01:17 PM
I can just see the carnage now. how would you manage to shoot the thing anyway, though? they're so skinny!
Midgets with blowdarts?
I'm all about educated, safe ownership of a handgun as a means to feel more secure in one's home.
What I'm not about is owning an arsenal just to prove your masculinity, or just to spite the "guvment". Sadly, the latter seems to be far more prevalent than the former.
:-d Band name. Definite band name.
Agreed. The latter is extremely prevelant in the "Free Staters" of NH that live in my old neighborhood. Stupid pricks bringing guns to parties because they're "above the government" make me angry.
Jefferson Rank
08/24/09, 01:20 PM
Agreed. The latter is extremely prevelant in the "Free Staters" of NH that live in my old neighborhood. Stupid pricks bringing guns to parties because they're "above the government" make me angry.
A bullet in the host always puts a damper on the partying.
Animalhill
08/24/09, 01:26 PM
A bullet in the host always puts a damper on the partying.
True, regardless if the keg is empty or not.
Midgets with blowdarts?
Agreed. The latter is extremely prevelant in the "Free Staters" of NH that live in my old neighborhood. Stupid pricks bringing guns to parties because they're "above the government" make me angry.
Yeah...it's like "go ahead and flash your piece and feel cool. But at the end of the day, I know who gots nukes and who doesn't."
Animalhill
08/24/09, 01:43 PM
Yeah...it's like "go ahead and flash your piece and feel cool. But at the end of the day, I know who gots nukes and who doesn't."
haha exactly.
caveBEAR
08/24/09, 01:45 PM
I can just see the carnage now. how would you manage to shoot the thing anyway, though? they're so skinny!
Why, that's no bigger than a womprat.
Posthardcore
08/24/09, 01:50 PM
Background checks, Get thier medical history to see if they are mentally Ill, and check to see if they are a citizen. If all is clear, they should be able to buy guns.
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Who hunts ferrets now?
me with the super-dooper, big gun i bought from the corner Chinese place lol
Skadrist
08/24/09, 02:59 PM
Regulating assault weapons is nothing but ineffective feel good legislation. The first assault weapon ban was a complete failure and did not do much. Why? Because the most used weapons in crimes will always be pistols for every high profile shooting in some upscale white area dozens of people in the inner city die. Gun control isn't going to stop people from getting killed where I live here in the Pleasant Grove or Oak Cliff not until the war on drugs is ended along with efforts to combat poverty and a culture of violence that is prevalent in the inner city. Yeah, I own a gun because I live in a rough area. Even if I didn't live in a rough area I would still have one; I have always had an interest in them perhaps because my ancestors were riding and outshotting Porfirian cavalry a century a go during the Mexican revolution.
Don't let the fact that I own a gun make you think that I am not a member of the left I will always be a member of the left and I will always consider myself a Democratic socialist. I know I don't fall in the typical gun owner demographic of what you expect being Mexican, working a unionized job and in college. I also don't see myself supporting the idea of gun control since it has it's roots in suppressing minorities, unions and immigrants.
Anything about hunting should never even enter the debate. That wasn't the point of the 2nd amendment.
There's nothing unconstitutional about the idea of gun control. The right to a firearm to protect yourself/your family/your home doesn't mean the right to any and all. There's a place for common sense restrictions, just like the kind of restrictions we place on free speech.
Manicapathy
08/24/09, 03:11 PM
I believe in the second amendment. I really do. I believe in the basic right to own weapons and I believe it has its place of importance among other Constitutional rights such as free speech, due process, etc. That being said, do you really need to buy more than one gun per month? Or, do you really need to own an automatic weapon?
This statement, ftw. That's the first thing I'm going to do when i get old enough: go to the local gun store and buy me a firearm.
Also: http://www.funny-wallpapers.com/bulkupload/wallpapers/funny%20backgrounds/Problem-Solver.gif
Praetor
08/24/09, 04:17 PM
Also, I believe that the NRA president had the NRA Constitution amended so he could serve an extra term. Oh, irony.
Josh Weinstein
08/24/09, 04:36 PM
Background checks, Get thier medical history to see if they are mentally Ill, and check to see if they are a citizen. If all is clear, they should be able to buy guns.
I wanted to bring up Seung-Hui Cho, since he was able to legally purchase guns by providing proof of his required Virginia residency (since he was born in Korea), his driver's license and 30 day waiting period. Yet, he did omit his mental health records. I guess what I'm saying is that mentally ill people who want to commit violent crimes can still find a way to legally purchase guns. They may not exhibit noticable behavior infront of family and peers and it goes undiagnosed. Revelations of one's mental illness and desire to kill maybe too late.
*Yes, I know cases like this are rare when compared to all gun owners who own multiple guns, but this was just a famous example.
NonOperational
08/24/09, 05:57 PM
I live in Philadelphia, where people don't hunt deer or ferrets , but rather, children, parents, family members, and friends.
Please, we need gun control.
I lived in Philly for 5 years while at Drexel. I don't quite understand how gun control would stop that.
sjCIT3M1dqs
Praetor
08/24/09, 06:08 PM
I lived in Philly for 5 years while at Drexel. I don't quite understand how gun control would stop that.
sjCIT3M1dqs
hahaha this is the most idiotic documentary.
"Mass murders occur in gun free zones...so we should arm everybody with guns."
Praetor
08/24/09, 06:14 PM
Oh, and all these conservatives with guns at rallies with such a boner for personal responsibility should start showing some.
I lived in Philly for 5 years while at Drexel. I don't quite understand how gun control would stop that.
sjCIT3M1dqs
its better then nothing. something isnt working and if we cant get rid of the people (the whole "guns dont kill people; people kill people), then we should try getting rid of the guns.
OveriseFan
08/24/09, 07:29 PM
http://www.solarnavigator.net/animal_kingdom/animal_images/Brown_bear_rearing.jpg
vodyanoj
08/24/09, 10:46 PM
Surprised there isn't already a thread on this. Oh well.
What are your opinions on firearms and the like? Do they make society more safe or more dangerous? Should we have more restrictions but keep the general idea? You, AP.net, decide!
I think nuclear weapons should be distributed to private individuals, each of whom could have a personal silo in their backyard.
I think biological weapon kits should be sold over the internet at cut-rate prices, and DNA sequencers capable of building a smallpox virus from scratch should be a piece of equipment in each house.
Let's not even talk about assault weapons...:-d
Jefferson Rank
08/25/09, 11:52 AM
Why, that's no bigger than a womprat.
I don't see how you would manage to get one of those either.
Oh, and all these conservatives with guns at rallies with such a boner for personal responsibility should start showing some.
Loving the douchewaffles at Obama's town halls in AZ come with their assault weapons to "stick it to the man". The "man" being Obama...the guy who knows the nuclear launch codes. Pretty sure I know who would win in a fight between them.
Machu505
08/25/09, 12:25 PM
What I don't get about all these people who are yelling "zomg obamas gonna take ma gunz!!!1!" is he's actually EXTENDED gun rights. Remember the Credit Card Bill of Rights thing? Yeah, that had a provision allowing guns in national parks.
I lived in Philly for 5 years while at Drexel. I don't quite understand how gun control would stop that.
sjCIT3M1dqs
Penn and Teller are comedic magicians with an open politcal bias. Not trusted authorities in the field of firearms and criminology.
GuitarR0cker1
08/25/09, 03:23 PM
What I don't get about all these people who are yelling "zomg obamas gonna take ma gunz!!!1!" is he's actually EXTENDED gun rights. Remember the Credit Card Bill of Rights thing? Yeah, that had a provision allowing guns in national parks.
The thing is that those people are either excessivley paranoid, buy into talk show lies or have a mild form of down syndrome. Sometimes it is a combination of all 3.
My Broken Fever
08/25/09, 03:40 PM
No matter how I turn it, I cannot see any benefit to having laws that make it easy to get fire arms. I mean, does anyone really need one?
No matter how I turn it, I cannot see any benefit to having laws that make it easy to get fire arms. I mean, does anyone really need one?
No. If we had nothing about bearing arms in the constitution, there wouldn't be this huge gun fervor in the U.S.
It's the backwoods hicks who like to feel like just OWNING a gun is somehow giving a middle finger to the government. I don't get that mentality.
Machu505
08/25/09, 03:46 PM
No matter how I turn it, I cannot see any benefit to having laws that make it easy to get fire arms. I mean, does anyone really need one?
Yes. Think about those in the more "hickish" parts of the country who don't live near a grocery store, make little money, and therefore need to hunt for their food.
Yes. Think about those in the more "hickish" parts of the country who don't live near a grocery store, make little money, and therefore need to hunt for their food.
Bow and arrow. Old school. Problem solved.
Machu505
08/25/09, 04:04 PM
Bow and arrow. Old school. Problem solved.
And in Alaska with tough-hided animals?
I actually used that same argument before when I was for strict gun control.
And in Alaska with tough-hided animals?
I actually used that same argument before when I was for strict gun control.
Move to civilization. Needing guns for hunting food in the United States is a result of choice, not necessity.
Also, no one hunts with handguns. I've got no problem with a hunting rifle. Keep 'em.
Machu505
08/25/09, 04:32 PM
Move to civilization. Needing guns for hunting food in the United States is a result of choice, not necessity.
Also, no one hunts with handguns. I've got no problem with a hunting rifle. Keep 'em.
Fair enough, homes. But when I'm hunting the neighbor's cat I almost always use a pistol. ;-)
Fair enough, homes. But when I'm hunting the neighbor's cat I almost always use a pistol. ;-)
Paintball gun ftw! :-D
I think nuclear weapons should be distributed to private individuals, each of whom could have a personal silo in their backyard.
I think biological weapon kits should be sold over the internet at cut-rate prices, and DNA sequencers capable of building a smallpox virus from scratch should be a piece of equipment in each house.
Let's not even talk about assault weapons...:-d
To be fair, biological weapons cannot be used without harming someone else. The same goes for nukes, unless you're exploding them underground in properly secured/safe areas. Guns don't necessarily have to harm another person.
Move to civilization. Needing guns for hunting food in the United States is a result of choice, not necessity.
Also, no one hunts with handguns. I've got no problem with a hunting rifle. Keep 'em.
I don't know about other areas, but in Minnesota there are a lot of deer and there's not enough food to manage that population. Unless a significant portion of the deer population is hunted and killed, many deer will suffer starvation. That would be a much more painful fate than a bullet to the heart. Some people would say we have a moral obligation, then, to hunt deer in that right, which would actually make it more a necessity than a choice.
I don't know about other areas, but in Minnesota there are a lot of deer and there's not enough food to manage that population. Unless a significant portion of the deer population is hunted and killed, many deer will suffer starvation. That would be a much more painful fate than a bullet to the heart. Some people would say we have a moral obligation, then, to hunt deer in that right, which would actually make it more a necessity than a choice.
Fair enough. Like I say, I don't have a problem with hunting rifles. I have a problem with the rationale that because people like to hunt, they therefore need a handgun and an automatic rifle.
jawstheme
08/25/09, 05:07 PM
To be fair, biological weapons cannot be used without harming someone else. The same goes for nukes, unless you're exploding them underground in properly secured/safe areas. Guns don't necessarily have to harm another person.
I don't know about other areas, but in Minnesota there are a lot of deer and there's not enough food to manage that population. Unless a significant portion of the deer population is hunted and killed, many deer will suffer starvation. That would be a much more painful fate than a bullet to the heart. Some people would say we have a moral obligation, then, to hunt deer in that right, which would actually make it more a necessity than a choice.
This reminds me of the South Park episode where Jimbo changes their killing animals excuse to thinning out the numbers. "So you see, we have to kill them or else they'll die." You're right and everything, but that's a funny show.
vodyanoj
08/25/09, 05:40 PM
To be fair, biological weapons cannot be used without harming someone else. The same goes for nukes, unless you're exploding them underground in properly secured/safe areas. Guns don't necessarily have to harm another person.
I don't know about other areas, but in Minnesota there are a lot of deer and there's not enough food to manage that population. Unless a significant portion of the deer population is hunted and killed, many deer will suffer starvation. That would be a much more painful fate than a bullet to the heart. Some people would say we have a moral obligation, then, to hunt deer in that right, which would actually make it more a necessity than a choice.
Who said anything about exploding them? I just want one, for personal security...:-p
And I have no problem with hunting, hence all regular hunting rifles and shotguns are perfectly fine with me. As well as black-poweder weapons and historical weapons: I may be iffy about handguns in general, but I would love to have a 1907 Mauser broomhandle.
open mind
08/25/09, 11:26 PM
Move to civilization. Needing guns for hunting food in the United States is a result of choice, not necessity.
it's a choice people should be free to make.
Fair enough. Like I say, I don't have a problem with hunting rifles. I have a problem with the rationale that because people like to hunt, they therefore need a handgun and an automatic rifle.
What if I would like a handgun for protection?
And, by the way, people hunt with handguns...
open mind
08/25/09, 11:51 PM
And, by the way, people hunt with handguns...
it's a pretty inefficient way to do so when compared to hunting rifles though.
anthonydarko
08/25/09, 11:54 PM
Assault weapons should be outright banned. Completely. Stricter regulation, much tougher consequences. It's 2009, not 1776. The 2nd Amendment isn't modern.
And what would you qualify as an assault weapon?
saysmydoctor
08/25/09, 11:57 PM
And what would you qualify as an assault weapon?
http://content.kapowwe.com/images4/store2.jpg
I won't lie, I don't know the terminology, but automatic weapons like that where I can just spray bullets--that kind of weapon should be illegal.
anthonydarko
08/26/09, 12:06 AM
http://content.kapowwe.com/images4/store2.jpg
I won't lie, I don't know the terminology, but automatic weapons like that where I can just spray bullets--that kind of weapon should be illegal.
Well for the most part, those kinds of weapons are illegal to own in the US. A US citizen would need to posses a Class III license to own such a weapon, which require a large sum of money and extensive background checks and mental evaluations, and if I recall correctly, only certain states will allow a citizen to posses such a weapon, I may be wrong on the latter. Plus the money it costs to purchase an automatic weapon is staggering, some guns I've seen cost as much as a nice used car. I will agree however that the average citizen does need that kind of firepower, most people are not mentally or emotionally fit to be able to possess such a weapon and not use it out of anger.
EDIT: I checked on automatic weapon prices, some I've seen go for as much as $26,000 so I was half right in saying it as a much as a nice used car. New car would be an acceptable answer as well.
Liz_who?
08/26/09, 01:37 AM
I very strongly believe in the second amendment. Criminals will always have access to guns, so why can't good people protect themselves?
Can I buy grenades here? Like is it legal in any state? I wouldn't be opposed to buying a grenade just to watch one explode.
Plus you've never hunted until you've hunted with grenades.
I very strongly believe in the second amendment. Criminals will always have access to guns, so why can't good people protect themselves?
Because statistically speaking...they don't "protect" anyone. They attract needless shootings. That's statistics talking, not me.
Animalhill
08/26/09, 09:05 AM
Can I buy grenades here? Like is it legal in any state? I wouldn't be opposed to buying a grenade just to watch one explode.
Plus you've never hunted until you've hunted with grenades.
:-d So true. There's really nothing quite like hucking a 'nade at a bear.
open mind
08/26/09, 09:07 AM
Because statistically speaking...they don't "protect" anyone. They attract needless shootings. That's statistics talking, not me.
does any organization attempt to keep stats on the lives guns save? i'm sure they're a help from time to time.
does any organization attempt to keep stats on the lives guns save? i'm sure they're a help from time to time.
Probably not, since guns don't save lives...people save lives.
And guns are manufactured with the specific intent to kill or injure whatever they're shot at, so I don't know how it's possible that guns can "save lives".
open mind
08/26/09, 12:46 PM
Probably not, since guns don't save lives...people save lives.
And guns are manufactured with the specific intent to kill or injure whatever they're shot at, so I don't know how it's possible that guns can "save lives".
somebody with a knife wants to kill you, you've got a gun which convinces them not to?
somebody with a knife wants to kill you, you've got a gun which convinces them not to?
Someone with a GUN wants to kill you, you've got a gun. Now what?
open mind
08/26/09, 01:00 PM
Someone with a GUN wants to kill you, you've got a gun. Now what?
that certainly isn't guns saving lives....although it could save mine.
would you consider my example before deflecting?
that certainly isn't guns saving lives....although it could save mine.
would you consider my example before deflecting?
a) If someone's pissed enough that they're trying to kill you with a knife, the fact that you have a gun may save you temporarily, but in the end, one of two things will happen: You will die/he will die/you will both die.
The idea that having a gun will somehow "save lives" simply is not feasible as far as I'm concerned. Statistically, your odds of dying in a violent ordeal go UP simply by virtue of owning one.
open mind
08/26/09, 01:19 PM
a) If someone's pissed enough that they're trying to kill you with a knife, the fact that you have a gun may save you temporarily, but in the end, one of two things will happen: You will die/he will die/you will both die.
The idea that having a gun will somehow "save lives" simply is not feasible as far as I'm concerned. Statistically, your odds of dying in a violent ordeal go UP simply by virtue of owning one.
couldn't someone calm down and realize murder isn't a good idea?
i'm not a big fan of deterrant arguments, i'm mostly just playing devils advocate here.
one thing that troubles me about some aspects of gun control is how similiar the motivations for it mirror the drug war.
couldn't someone calm down and realize murder isn't a good idea?
i'm not a big fan of deterrant arguments, i'm mostly just playing devils advocate here.
one thing that troubles me about some aspects of gun control is how similiar the motivations for it mirror the drug war.
:-d Yeah, guns=ok, murder=bad.
I gotcha.
I do see the similarities you speak of regarding the drug war. The "those who want them will get them, regardless" point of view, which I agree is true.
open mind
08/26/09, 01:29 PM
:-d Yeah, guns=ok, murder=bad.
I gotcha.
I do see the similarities you speak of regarding the drug war. The "those who want them will get them, regardless" point of view, which I agree is true.
i also see gun laws as being pretty unevenly enforced. for some odd reason it's mostly minorities being locked up for years on illegal possession charges.
Skadrist
08/26/09, 01:59 PM
http://content.kapowwe.com/images4/store2.jpg
I won't lie, I don't know the terminology, but automatic weapons like that where I can just spray bullets--that kind of weapon should be illegal.
I would call those airsoft.
vodyanoj
08/26/09, 02:19 PM
EDIT: I checked on automatic weapon prices, some I've seen go for as much as $26,000 so I was half right in saying it as a much as a nice used car. New car would be an acceptable answer as well.
OTOH, elsewhere in the world, you can get an AK47 for $20 or so.
i also see gun laws as being pretty unevenly enforced. for some odd reason it's mostly minorities being locked up for years on illegal possession charges.
You and I both know that only minorities commit crime in the U.S. ;-)
anthonydarko
08/26/09, 02:24 PM
OTOH, elsewhere in the world, you can get an AK47 for $20 or so.
Yes, in many black markets around the world, you can purchase that weapon for that amount, particularly in the Middle East and Africa. Of course, there about 75 million AK-47's in trade in the world so I'd imagine that has something to do with the prices.
vodyanoj
08/26/09, 07:47 PM
Yes, in many black markets around the world, you can purchase that weapon for that amount, particularly in the Middle East and Africa. Of course, there about 75 million AK-47's in trade in the world so I'd imagine that has something to do with the prices.
Indeed. All I am saying is that one does not have to spend thousands of dollars on a perfectly fine automatic rifle when one actually needs it, which I arguably would if I went to, say, Congo...
anthonydarko
08/26/09, 07:50 PM
Indeed. All I am saying is that one does not have to spend thousands of dollars on a perfectly fine automatic rifle when one actually needs it, which I arguably would if I went to, say, Congo...
Well, the ones I saw where legal fully automatic weapons, hence the high price. Plus, it's impossible to import a weapon like that to the US post 9/11.
vodyanoj
08/26/09, 07:58 PM
Well, the ones I saw where legal fully automatic weapons, hence the high price. Plus, it's impossible to import a weapon like that to the US post 9/11.
Of course, but I am also of the opinion that you don't need a weapon like that in the USA. I know them and love them: I got through Afghanistan with the glorious Soviet Army with one of those, after all...:)...and you need one in Congo, Somalia, the whole Pashtun/Turkmen region but not much anywhere else.
i also see gun laws as being pretty unevenly enforced. for some odd reason it's mostly minorities being locked up for years on illegal possession charges.
Most of the violent illegal drug trade on street level is run by minorities in this country nowadays. This means that while many whites may indeed own weapons that are illegal or illegally carry them, there is no way they will be arrested with them in their possession in the percentages that minorities are. Though, you might be being sarcastic with this post.
open mind
08/27/09, 12:25 AM
Most of the violent illegal drug trade on street level is run by minorities in this country nowadays. This means that while many whites may indeed own weapons that are illegal or illegally carry them, there is no way they will be arrested with them in their possession in the percentages that minorities are. Though, you might be being sarcastic with this post.
it was sarcastic but that wasn't the point i was trying to make.
i see the drug war and most gun control laws as institutionalized racism.
it was sarcastic but that wasn't the point i was trying to make.
i see the drug war and most gun control laws as institutionalized racism.
I'd like you to elaborate on this point, because I may or may not agree with you.
open mind
08/27/09, 08:46 PM
i could write it all out myself but this article touches on most points i'd make concerning the drug war.
http://www.alternet.org/story/14085?page=entire
the culture of violence in many inner cities is a direct result of the drug war and harsh possession penalties for guns weren't really instituted until after the drug war was in full effect.
Skadrist
08/27/09, 10:40 PM
I posted something similar earlier in the thread.
Regulating assault weapons is nothing but ineffective feel good legislation. The first assault weapon ban was a complete failure and did not do much. Why? Because the most used weapons in crimes will always be pistols for every high profile shooting in some upscale white area dozens of people in the inner city die. Gun control isn't going to stop people from getting killed where I live here in the Pleasant Grove or Oak Cliff not until the war on drugs is ended along with efforts to combat poverty and a culture of violence that is prevalent in the inner city. Yeah, I own a gun because I live in a rough area. Even if I didn't live in a rough area I would still have one; I have always had an interest in them perhaps because my ancestors were riding and outshotting Porfirian cavalry a century a go during the Mexican revolution.
Don't let the fact that I own a gun make you think that I am not a member of the left I will always be a member of the left and I will always consider myself a Democratic socialist. I know I don't fall in the typical gun owner demographic of what you expect being Mexican, working a unionized job and in college. I also don't see myself supporting the idea of gun control since it has it's roots in suppressing minorities, unions and immigrants.
Josh Weinstein
09/23/09, 08:36 PM
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/little_boy_heroically_shoots?utm_so urce=a-section
An excellent example of Americans' right to own a gun to protect ourselves. While I don't own a gun, I plan to once I own my own home (since I live in an apartment that doesn't allow firearms). A former co-worker of mine is a huge gun advocate. He told me he successfully stopped intruders on four separate occasions. Two of which ended in the deaths of the intruder, another he shot in the leg, and the other he shot in the spine, which rendered him paralyzed for the rest of his life. That'll teach them scum bags from breaking into people's homes.
shit stroll
09/23/09, 08:37 PM
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/little_boy_heroically_shoots?utm_so urce=a-section
An excellent example of Americans' right to own a gun to protect ourselves. While I don't own a gun, I plan to once I own my own home (since I live in an apartment that doesn't allow firearms). A former co-worker of mine is a huge gun advocate. He told me he successfully stopped intruders on four separate occasions. Two of which ended in the deaths of the intruder, another he shot in the leg, and the other he shot in the spine, which rendered him paralyzed for the rest of his life. That'll teach them scum bags from breaking into people's homes.
your co-worker is full of shit.
Josh Weinstein
09/23/09, 08:42 PM
your co-worker is full of shit.
Why would you say that? The purpose of being able to own a gun is to protect yourself. My co-worker was able to protect his family on four separate occasions. If he didn't own a gun, his family would have been harmed and his possessions would have been stolen.
shit stroll
09/23/09, 08:54 PM
Why would you say that? The purpose of being able to own a gun is to protect yourself. My co-worker was able to protect his family on four separate occasions. If he didn't own a gun, his family would have been harmed and his possessions would have been stolen.
i highly doubt his house was broken into on four separate occasions and that he killed two intruders. i mean it's plausible but highly unlikely.
saysmydoctor
09/23/09, 08:59 PM
Your co-worker's personal tale of justifiable vigilantism isn't representative of the population.
Josh Weinstein
09/23/09, 09:02 PM
i highly doubt his house was broken into on four separate occasions and that he killed two intruders. i mean it's plausible but highly unlikely.
I can only assume you live in a crime-free neighborhood, but there are areas in this country where crime is everywhere. I've since moved to a relatively safe place in a well populated area, so I don't live in fear without a firearm handy. But there are those in urban areas where intruders frequently break into homes. The world is a scary place and it's every person for themselves. I commend my former co-worker for protecting himself. Oh, and he has no remorse for killing two intruders. He's dropped bombs on Baghdad during the first Gulf War so that wasn't the first time he ended a human life.
GuitarR0cker1
09/23/09, 09:03 PM
I posted something similar earlier in the thread.
:highfive:
I basically have the same exact opinion on gun control. It really doesn't work well at all and politically it is a stupid move as well. My family doesn't even own any guns and I have this position.
saysmydoctor
09/23/09, 09:04 PM
"Need Joe-Joe the dog-faced bitchboy? Call Josh Weinfuck, the lightweight, penstealing fuckface.
Josh Weinstein
09/23/09, 09:07 PM
Your co-worker's personal tale of justifiable vigilantism isn't representative of the population.
I'm not saying it is, but certain gun advocates use it to justify ownership. The same goes for when NRA members recommended teachers and professors to possess guns in the classroom in the case of a murderer on campus (this stemmed from the Virginia Tech massacre).
GuitarR0cker1
09/23/09, 09:08 PM
I'm not saying it is, but certain gun advocates use it to justify ownership. The same goes for when NRA members recommended teachers and professors to possess guns in the classroom in the case of a murderer on campus (this stemmed from the Virginia Tech massacre).
dumbest idea ever.
Josh Weinstein
09/23/09, 09:10 PM
dumbest idea ever.
Tell that to the NRA.
saysmydoctor
09/23/09, 09:14 PM
Gladly, the NRA is the most disgusting organization on Earth.
MyNameIsRoss
09/23/09, 09:15 PM
I can't really be pigeonholed politically. I am all for the second amendment, but no average-Joe-fuckhead should own a fully automatic weapon..
I can't really be pigeonholed politically. I am all for the second amendment, but no average-Joe-fuckhead should own a fully automatic weapon..
http://worsethanhitler.files.wordpress.com /2009/04/35831.jpg
Skadrist
09/23/09, 09:21 PM
Gladly, the NRA is the most disgusting organization on Earth.
ehemNAMBLAehem
saysmydoctor
09/23/09, 09:24 PM
http://worsethanhitler.files.wordpress.com /2009/04/35831.jpg
ahahahahhahahhahhahahhahah holy fuck
Skadrist
09/23/09, 09:49 PM
:highfive:
I basically have the same exact opinion on gun control. It really doesn't work well at all and politically it is a stupid move as well. My family doesn't even own any guns and I have this position.
I kind of see many Democrats' position on gun control something detrimental to many voters; to me it's the Republican's equivalent of being anti-choice or anti-gay. The Republican party right now is built on a three-legged stool based on 3 Gs: God, gays and guns. If some of the members in Democratic party would lose their vocal pro-gun control rhetoric they could attract many voters and knock out that leg from the stool. But hey what do I know I am just a working class spic who happens to have some heat in his house.
caveBEAR
09/24/09, 08:06 AM
I can't really be pigeonholed politically. I am all for the second amendment, but no average-Joe-fuckhead should own a fully automatic weapon..
I feel the same way. When I have a family, there is a damn good chance there will be a handgun in that house (because for the damage they can cause, they can also end a break in pretty quick) but there is no reason a hunter, let alone an average person, needs a fully automatic weapon that the military uses. If you can't get the job done with one bullet at a time, maybe the job didn't need doing.
mattmatumbo
09/24/09, 09:21 AM
Hunting weapons aside (shotguns, deer rifles etc...) i've never seen the use for assault weapons or handguns for the public. Easily concealable weapons, or weapons who are designed to have greater range and accuracy while firing at faster rates and can hold anywhere between 15 and 200 rounds depending on clip size are sold to the public? Seems absurd to me to sell weapons designed for the obvious.
Neo Cassady
09/24/09, 01:41 PM
The only well-regulated militia we have now is the National Guard. Yes, they have guns. To retain the security of a free state. That should be the extent of it. Only a small minority of regular gun-owners can say that the minute we're attacked they're going to take their guns to the front lines, and even then, without training they would not be "well-regulated".
ted is lying
09/24/09, 01:44 PM
Having one gun isnt bad or even five. Since some people like to hunt and do stuff like that but people who have over 10+ are just crazy. Also my friend has an automatic assault rifle. What the fuck are you going to hunt with that?
vodyanoj
09/24/09, 09:48 PM
I feel the same way. When I have a family, there is a damn good chance there will be a handgun in that house (because for the damage they can cause, they can also end a break in pretty quick) but there is no reason a hunter, let alone an average person, needs a fully automatic weapon that the military uses. If you can't get the job done with one bullet at a time, maybe the job didn't need doing.
I would not want to own a gun unless I absolutely had to, for several reasons. Firstly, I am far from being emotionally stable and would be a danger to myself at least. Secondly, I have seen too many accidents in which innocent family members are hurt. And finally, I much prefer to kill an intruder with a claymore or at least with a crossbow. It is much more satisfying, and I don't mind weapons of that kind in the house in the least...:-)
kianacarly
09/24/09, 10:13 PM
Having one gun isnt bad or even five. Since some people like to hunt and do stuff like that but people who have over 10+ are just crazy.Also my friend has an automatic assault rifle. What the fuck are you going to hunt with that?
People in my town are very vocal about wanting all of their gun rights, and their only reason is that they claim they need to hunt. I agree with the bolded part especially. I know high school kids who are already bragging about the future arsenal they wish to own. Like, it's not uncommon to look at a high school kid's myspace from Pendleton and see that they have an entire album dedicated to ridiculous guns they wish to have. It blows my mind, though I suppose when you live in a town where people shoot at junked cars for entertainment, it's unavoidable.
Josh Weinstein
09/24/09, 10:20 PM
People in my town are very vocal about wanting all of their gun rights, and their only reason is that they claim they need to hunt. I agree with the bolded part especially. I know high school kids who are already bragging about the future arsenal they wish to own. Like, it's not uncommon to look at a high school kid's myspace from Pendleton and see that they have an entire album dedicated to ridiculous guns they wish to have. It blows my mind, though I suppose when you live in a town where people shoot at junked cars for entertainment, it's unavoidable.
Ownership of big guns makes your penis bigger. That's why people like you and me hold an arsenal in our basement. Makes us fee like real men. Now ladies... who wants to make out?!?!
kianacarly
09/24/09, 10:21 PM
Ownership of big guns makes your penis bigger. That's why people like you and me hold an arsenal in our basement. Makes us fee like real men. Now ladies... who wants to make out?!?!
Except I don't actually have a penis.
Josh Weinstein
09/24/09, 10:23 PM
I would not want to own a gun unless I absolutely had to, for several reasons. Firstly, I am far from being emotionally stable and would be a danger to myself at least. Secondly, I have seen too many accidents in which innocent family members are hurt. And finally, I much prefer to kill an intruder with a claymore or at least with a crossbow. It is much more satisfying, and I don't mind weapons of that kind in the house in the least...:-)
Seriously bro, firing a gun is such a liberating experience. The first time I fired a gun at a shooting range when I was 16, I got a full-on chubby in my pants. It brought a smile to my face.
Josh Weinstein
09/24/09, 10:25 PM
Except I don't actually have a penis.
Sorry, my bad. I guess in your case, makes your ovaries and uterus look bigger.
I spent a lot of time growing up in Texas and was shooting by the time I was 7 so I'm not particularly bothered by them. I'm not against gun ownership to be honest. Although I wish someone would explain to me the actual reason to have assault rifles rather than to just have them.
I really do think that there might be a lot less crime if everyone had a gun. Might make you less willing to do something stupid because you very well could get your ass shot.
Also, no guns allowed when you're drinking or fighting with anyone in any way.
vodyanoj
09/24/09, 11:08 PM
Seriously bro, firing a gun is such a liberating experience. The first time I fired a gun at a shooting range when I was 16, I got a full-on chubby in my pants. It brought a smile to my face.
I have no problem with firing them, and am well-familiar with the AK, at least and can slaughter a large number of people with it in a short time. I just don't want one in my house. If the shit hits the fan, I have plenty of friends with guns that would share, and for peaceful purposes I am perfectly happy with a boar-spear and a bow and arrow. And even for not-so-peaceful ones...
vodyanoj
09/24/09, 11:09 PM
Sorry, my bad. I guess in your case, makes your ovaries and uterus look bigger.
Wouldn't it be the mammaries? :-0
ted is lying
09/25/09, 07:35 AM
People in my town are very vocal about wanting all of their gun rights, and their only reason is that they claim they need to hunt. I agree with the bolded part especially. I know high school kids who are already bragging about the future arsenal they wish to own. Like, it's not uncommon to look at a high school kid's myspace from Pendleton and see that they have an entire album dedicated to ridiculous guns they wish to have. It blows my mind, though I suppose when you live in a town where people shoot at junked cars for entertainment, it's unavoidable.
Having an arsenal of guns is like having a fast car or a big truck. It shows women we are men and if you disobey us we will shoot your ass and dump your body in the river. Also we can kill shit and have you cook it for dinner. Just Imagine how many things I can kill with grenade launcher, you will be cooking forever.
saysmydoctor
09/25/09, 08:09 AM
Josh Weinstein is fucking punkin' us.
caveBEAR
09/25/09, 09:48 AM
I spent a lot of time growing up in Texas and was shooting by the time I was 7 so I'm not particularly bothered by them. I'm not against gun ownership to be honest. Although I wish someone would explain to me the actual reason to have assault rifles rather than to just have them.
I really do think that there might be a lot less crime if everyone had a gun. Might make you less willing to do something stupid because you very well could get your ass shot.
Also, no guns allowed when you're drinking or fighting with anyone in any way.
Yeah, that rule is great...until someone starts drinking. Then they tend to forget it. Oh well, at least by that time their aim is off.
The easy access to guns in the US is not really correlated to the higher rate of murder. Like, it would be impossible to prove, and countries with similarly high amounts of the populace being armed don't have the similar problem. (IE Switzerland, I think). Our police are much more heavily armed than most others outside of clear police states, guns aren't to protect people from criminals as much as the government.
vodyanoj
09/25/09, 03:56 PM
The easy access to guns in the US is not really correlated to the higher rate of murder. Like, it would be impossible to prove, and countries with similarly high amounts of the populace being armed don't have the similar problem. (IE Switzerland, I think). Our police are much more heavily armed than most others outside of clear police states, guns aren't to protect people from criminals as much as the government.
The incidence of violent crime is directly correlated to the levels of education and the imposition of death penalty. Switzerland is different from the USA in both being much better educated, in general, and in not having death penalty.
The incidence of violent crime is directly correlated to the levels of education and the imposition of death penalty. Switzerland is different from the USA in both being much better educated, in general, and in not having death penalty.
Exactly. Those are things I think need changed.
vodyanoj
09/25/09, 05:25 PM
Exactly. Those are things I think need changed.
Yep, but it's so much easier to control uneducated people who also happen to be poor and who can be further intimidated in arbitrarily applied judicial murder!
Yep, but it's so much easier to control uneducated people who also happen to be poor and who can be further intimidated in arbitrarily applied judicial murder!
Yeah, if we leave them enough unsupervised, the black people will just exterminate themselves.
Yep, but it's so much easier to control uneducated people who also happen to be poor and who can be further intimidated in arbitrarily applied judicial murder!
Surprised you didn't bring up the idea of sterilization as a form of involuntary birth control.
zion the lion
09/25/09, 07:48 PM
Having one gun isnt bad or even five. Since some people like to hunt and do stuff like that but people who have over 10+ are just crazy. Also my friend has an automatic assault rifle. What the fuck are you going to hunt with that?
I know so many people with huge gun collections. I'm not really opposed to it, as long as they keep them in areas where the pets and kids cant get to them.
The fact that I can posses a gun (and do), means that the gun control laws are too loose. My dad may or may not have a few, even though he may or may not have gotten out of jail a few months ago for the billionth time. The one year anniversary of my cousins murder was this month, the person who killed him did it with a gun that he shouldnt have had in his possession. The punishment for breaking gun laws should be a lot more severe in my opinion.
vodyanoj
09/25/09, 08:44 PM
Yeah, if we leave them enough unsupervised, the black people will just exterminate themselves.
That's the spirit!
vodyanoj
09/25/09, 08:46 PM
Surprised you didn't bring up the idea of sterilization as a form of involuntary birth control.
That's been tried in this country in the 20-30s, and eventually received massive public backlash (not to mention that Hitler was another "leader" promoting such beautiful methods). But all we have to do is wait until those who remember how bad the idea and its execution were die off (or are slaughtered by death panels!) and we can bring the concept back into public discourse as a shiny good new thing.
vodyanoj
09/25/09, 08:48 PM
I know so many people with huge gun collections. I'm not really opposed to it, as long as they keep them in areas where the pets and kids cant get to them.
The fact that I can posses a gun (and do), means that the gun control laws are too loose. My dad may or may not have a few, even though he may or may not have gotten out of jail a few months ago for the billionth time. The one year anniversary of my cousins murder was this month, the person who killed him did it with a gun that he shouldnt have had in his possession. The punishment for breaking gun laws should be a lot more severe in my opinion.
Exactly. Gun control does not equal gun prohibition, and can be exercised on the state level where most of the enforcement needs to reside in any case.
That's been tried in this country in the 20-30s, and eventually received massive public backlash (not to mention that Hitler was another "leader" promoting such beautiful methods). But all we have to do is wait until those who remember how bad the idea and its execution were die off (or are slaughtered by death panels!) and we can bring the concept back into public discourse as a shiny good new thing.
Oh, I was referring to Patricia Williams... she has some cases in the alchemy of race and rights from the 90s, it was definitely still being performed by doctors in this country, specifically to blacks on welfare when they needed caesarian sections.
vodyanoj
09/25/09, 10:27 PM
Oh, I was referring to Patricia Williams... she has some cases in the alchemy of race and rights from the 90s, it was definitely still being performed by doctors in this country, specifically to blacks on welfare when they needed caesarian sections.
"Accidental" sterilization? Ooh, lawsuit time...
On the other hand, there have been cases of "accidental" removal of devices such as IUD's by religious nurses who felt that contraception went against God's will.
Josh Weinstein
10/10/09, 08:44 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091010/ap_on_re_us/us_fiancee_shot
Another example of "more family members killed by guns than intruders" argument.
"Accidental" sterilization? Ooh, lawsuit time...
On the other hand, there have been cases of "accidental" removal of devices such as IUD's by religious nurses who felt that contraception went against God's will.
The difference is that it's very classicist, as Blacks on welfare aren't really going to be able to afford legal repercussions, and most of the time it went entirely unnoticed until someone thought to connect the two things, as sterilization can be caused by a large variety of factors - it's so outside our ingrained trust of authority to believe that any doctor would ever do such a thing.
and yeah, nurses tend to be more religious than the general population for some reason.
cuzimlefthanded
10/20/09, 09:09 PM
Why use guns when you can use SAMURAI SWORDS??!!
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bal-md.samurai16sep16,0,114199.story
cuzimlefthanded
10/20/09, 09:10 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091010/ap_on_re_us/us_fiancee_shot
Another example of "more family members killed by guns than intruders" argument.
Well that read was a boner killer. Truly sad.
captivewear
10/23/09, 11:55 AM
I think we need to stop selling machine guns and any type of automatic or semi automatic guns. This whole automatic hug rifles used for "hunting" is a load of fucking bullshit and if you need a semi automatic gun to hunt then you shouldn't be hunting cause you suck at shooting. (See Dick Cheney)
Neo Cassady
06/28/10, 04:07 PM
High Court: Gun Rights Apply Across The Nation (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128163322)
The Supreme Court held Monday that Americans have the right to own a gun for self-defense anywhere they live, expanding the conservative court's embrace of gun rights since John Roberts became chief justice.
By a 5-4 vote, the justices cast doubt on handgun bans in the Chicago area, but signaled that some limitations on the Constitution's "right to keep and bear arms" could survive legal challenges.
Scrandon
06/28/10, 04:34 PM
Sounds like a pretty basic decision in accordance with the 14th amendment.
samsara
06/28/10, 04:40 PM
I think that it should be mandatory to take a gun safety class in order to own a gun in addition to a background and mental health check. Instead of just turning 18 and being able to pick one up from walmart. If you cant pass the class and be proven competent then you cannot own a gun.
Neo Cassady
06/28/10, 04:52 PM
I think that it should be mandatory to take a gun safety class in order to own a gun in addition to a background and mental health check. Instead of just turning 18 and being able to pick one up from walmart. If you cant pass the class and be proven competent then you cannot own a gun.
Exactly. The "well-regulated" part of the 2nd Amendment means that, if not more.
The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss.
--- Alexander Hamilton; The Federalist Papers, No. 29.
Machu505
06/28/10, 05:06 PM
The decision by the Supreme Court is absolutely correct. The rule of law cannot be circumvented, not even by the gun control activists.
x togepi x
06/28/10, 06:24 PM
i like guns because i don't trust the man.
majinsharingan
06/28/10, 09:56 PM
The 2nd Amendment sadly is completely necessary now. The world would be a much better place without guns or explosives but there's nothing we can do about that now. Take away everyone's guns and they are just more vulnerable to the people who still have guns.
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