Reality as we know it does not exist

[poseidon0513]

I saw this video a while ago and I thought I'd share it here

OZj9Qps8H6M

It basically says that are perception of reality is experienced through our senses. Therefore, we only know what something feels like or tastes like because of the electrical signals our brain interprets. So, reality as we know it does not exist!!!

[saysmydoctor]

WHERE IS DAVID
x

[GeeBee]

WHERE IS DAVID
x

Was gonna say the same thing...

EDIT: But apparently he doesn't exist...as you know him.

[Praetor]

I was not aware that this was a mindblowing proposition.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

http://www.reconnections.net/redblue_pill.jpg

[Machu505]

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?

[GeeBee]

I was not aware that this was a mindblowing proposition.

Haha, this.

[optimusrob]

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?

Caught in a landslide. No escape from reality.

[Nevuk]

This is ripped from pyrrhonean skepticism, read outlines of pyrrhonean skepticism by empiricus sextus if you actually want to know the real origin of these ideas. (This idea is older than Rome, basically)

[Brand-new-123]

This is ripped from pyrrhonean skepticism, read outlines of pyrrhonean skepticism by empiricus sextus if you actually want to know the real origin of these ideas. (This idea is older than Rome, basically)
But Rome never really existed. Because nothing really exists.

[bladerdude360]

My friend said to me, "I think the weather's trippy." I said, "No, man, it's not the weather that's trippy, perhaps it is the way that we perceive it that is indeed trippy." Then I thought, "Man, I should've just said, 'Yeah.'"

[Theow593]

I've been waiting for someone to make a topic like this on ap.net

holographic principle FTW

[Roboman]

I hate this bullshit.

[iheartmusic043]

Caught in a landslide. No escape from reality.
Open your eyes. Look up to the skies and see.

[shimmyshakes]

I hate stuff like this. I don't see how there is any proof to any of these theories.

[Charles777]

O_o

[perceptrons]

Uh... of course?

I don't understand why you're acting like this is crazy news.

[jawstheme]

Duh

[:-)]

http://www.reconnections.net/redblue_pill.jpg Exactly what I thought of when I saw the title of this thread.

[Nevuk]

It's a perfectly valid theory, honestly, but I refuse to watch the video. (I actually ascribe to this, but in large part it doesn't really seem to matter tbh so it rarely comes up). Phenomenology and all similar philosophy's have their roots in it, as does panopticonism and most attempts to escape structuralism. (Basically, it's especially important to post-structuralist thought).

[GeeBee]

It's a perfectly valid theory, honestly, but I refuse to watch the video. (I actually ascribe to this, but in large part it doesn't really seem to matter tbh so it rarely comes up). Phenomenology and all similar philosophy's have their roots in it, as does panopticonism and most attempts to escape structuralism. (Basically, it's especially important to post-structuralist thought).

X-) I get it now.

[Tead42]

I hate stuff like this. I don't see how there is any proof to any of these theories.
Well, what's your theory and what's your proof for it?

[J.C.]

You are all figments of my imagination.

[Tead42]

You are all figments of my imagination.
YEAH IM STILL DOWN WITH JC!
Ahhh Max Bemis...

[Brand-new-123]

You are all figments of my imagination.
no we're all figments of the same imagination as we're made of the same energy. I am you. You are me. Neither of us exist.

[Nevuk]

You are all figments of my imagination.
That's solipsism, it's very different from skepticism.

[J.C.]

That's solipsism, it's very different from skepticism.

That's totally something a figment of my imagination would say.

[Nevuk]

That's totally something a figment of my imagination would say.
If we are all figments of your imagination, then this is just a dream anyways. But what's the difference between a dream and consciousness, anyhow?

[saysmydoctor]

Wouldn't this mean that your theory on reality is irrelevant because if it doesn't exist, you don't exist, then your thoughts don't exist?

[Tead42]

/head explode
But seriously, this is an interesting topic, it makes you think.

Also: What's outside the universe?

[open mind]

/head explode
But seriously, this is an interesting topic, it makes you think.

Also: What's outside the universe?

m-theory (the most widely accepted explanation of everything physicists have come up with) says there could be an infinite ocean of other universes outside of our universe....and our universe is probably just the result of a collision between other universes.

[zion the lion]

I dont totally get why this thread got as much crap as it did, but then again I didnt watch past the 2:37 mark of the video.

[Nevuk]

Wouldn't this mean that your theory on reality is irrelevant because if it doesn't exist, you don't exist, then your thoughts don't exist?
It depends upon if your thoughts, which are based upon your perceptions, have any substance outside of perception itself. (preliminary findings suggests probably not), and whether thoughts exist in a separate sphere from your body. In essence, scientific materialism, dualism, etc.

The nice thing about pyrrhonean skepticism is that it acknowledges this irrelevance, and celebrates it- it's freeing to consider the possibility that this is all just one fucked up dream, but not embracing it. Academic skepticism has been circling this specific irrelevancy in terror for a few milennia. Academic skeptics say that reality simply does not exist, while pyrrhoneans refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of either existence or non-existence, and consider both equally impossible to acquire due to the flawed means of determining them as such.

I've certainly met more real characters in some stories than some people I've met in life.

[saysmydoctor]

Too dizzying to conceive. It's more comforting to think this real than to even delve into that nonsense. I don't care if that makes me close-minded haha

[billyboatkid]

I hate this bullshit.

Me too.

[saysmydoctor]

Your hate doesn't exist.

[Praetor]

I think that it's an interesting to think about, very cool to try to digest, but in the end it doesn't really matter.

I HAD TO FALLLLL, TO LOOOSEE IT ALLLL

[SpacePunk]

I hate this bullshit.

If this is "bullshit", then please explain your interpretation of reality..

[yellowhouse]

I didn't realize this was a new idea. Interesting though.

[poseidon0513]

it's not that things don't exist, its that we only experience them through our perceptions


edit: the last line of the video was "we are the imagination of ourselves" ....woah mindfuck

[Duexy]

came to this conclusion when i was like eight years old.

[Roboman]

If this is "bullshit", then please explain your interpretation of reality..

To me, the reality we experience is the "true" reality, because we perceive it through our senses. What other reality could there possibly be out there, other than the one we feel, see, smell, hear, and taste ourselves? I'm tired of the idea that our reality is all in our head, and that everything else might not actually "really" exist outside of our minds, when to me that is quite obviously not the case.

[Crowe41]

I like this bullshit.

I often wonder would it would be like to even miss half our senses. If you were deaf and blind, I would imagine you'd be living in a much different reality than someone who could see and hear.

[poseidon0513]

I like this bullshit.

I often wonder would it would be like to even miss half our senses. If you were deaf and blind, I would imagine you'd be living in a much different reality than someone who could see and hear.


just like animals who are colorblind or have stronger/weaker senses than ourselves probably have a different perception of reality then we do...what's to say that their perception is correct and ours is wrong?????

[perceptrons]

There needs to be a clarification made, there is a truth to the world around us, which is known as reality.

We all experience that reality differently, but reality doesn't ever change.

[GeeBee]

just like animals who are colorblind or have stronger/weaker senses than ourselves probably have a different perception of reality then we do...what's to say that their perception is correct and ours is wrong?????

Jeez dude. Take a low-level philosophy course. You're touting this nonsense as if it's a brand new idea, or groundbreaking.

[jawstheme]

Jeez dude. Take a low-level philosophy course. You're touting this nonsense as if it's a brand new idea, or groundbreaking.

Haha, seriously. This is at the philosophical level of a couple of people smoking weed.

[GeeBee]

Haha, seriously. This is at the philosophical level of a couple of people smoking weed.

Truly. This idea was old before the first Matrix movie.

[Praetor]

To me, the reality we experience is the "true" reality, because we perceive it through our senses. What other reality could there possibly be out there, other than the one we feel, see, smell, hear, and taste ourselves? I'm tired of the idea that our reality is all in our head, and that everything else might not actually "really" exist outside of our minds, when to me that is quite obviously not the case.
Yes, but everybody perceives things differently. The 'yellow' that you see is entirely different than the 'yellow' that I see. What is the 'real' 'yellow'?

[GeeBee]

Yes, but everybody perceives things differently. The 'yellow' that you see is entirely different than the 'yellow' that I see. What is the 'real' 'yellow'?

The possibility for subjectivity does not automatically exclude objectivity.

[Praetor]

I was countering this statement

To me, the reality we experience is the "true" reality, because we perceive it through our senses.
which seemed to "forget" that everybody experiences different realities.

[perceptrons]

Everyone experiences the same reality, they just experience that reality differently. There is only one reality. It's semantics, yes, but it's bugging me.

[GeeBee]

Everyone experiences the same reality, they just experience that reality differently. There is only one reality. It's semantics, yes, but it's bugging me.

Aren't these walks down first-year philosophy memory lane fun?

[perceptrons]

Aren't these walks down first-year philosophy memory lane fun?
A blast!

[Roboman]

Yes, but everybody perceives things differently. The 'yellow' that you see is entirely different than the 'yellow' that I see. What is the 'real' 'yellow'?

Do you honestly believe that the yellow you see is entirely different than the yellow I see? Sure, there's no way to really know, but I think that most humans are created with roughly the same perceptions when it comes to things like which color. I'm pretty sure we would know by now if color perception varied wildly from person to person. And I agree with this:

There needs to be a clarification made, there is a truth to the world around us, which is known as reality.

We all experience that reality differently, but reality doesn't ever change.

However, I don't think we all experience reality that differently (I mean through our senses, not through occurrences, of course). That's disregarding things like colorblindness, deafness, blindness, etc.

[perceptrons]

Do you honestly believe that the yellow you see is entirely different than the yellow I see? Sure, there's no way to really know, but I think that most humans are created with roughly the same perceptions when it comes to things like which color. I'm pretty sure we would know by now if color perception varied wildly from person to person. And I agree with this:



However, I don't think we all experience reality that differently (I mean through our senses, not through occurrences, of course). That's disregarding things like colorblindness, deafness, blindness, etc.
I would think if someone saw an entirely different color for yellow, it would eventually dawn on them somehow. I mean, if they look at a crayon that says yellow, and see the color of the crayon as someone others would say isn't yellow, eventually this will come to light.

I am of the opinion that we don't as well.

[Praetor]

I would think if someone saw an entirely different color for yellow, it would eventually dawn on them somehow. I mean, if they look at a crayon that says yellow, and see the color of the crayon as someone others would say isn't yellow, eventually this will come to light.
Yes. I'm not saying that realities are constantly changing, I'm saying they're different. For example, the yellow that I see stays the same and the yellow you see stays the same but they're not the same yellow.

[asmolitor]

conspiracy lumberjack yells TIMMMBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBERR wolf

[perceptrons]

Yes. I'm not saying that realities are constantly changing, I'm saying they're different. For example, the yellow that I see stays the same and the yellow you see stays the same but they're not the same yellow.
But there is only one reality, how can they differ? The yellow both of us see has nothing to do with the light ray that is coming into the light receptors in our eyes.

[Praetor]

But there is only one reality, how can they differ? The yellow both of us see has nothing to do with the light ray that is coming into the light receptors in our eyes.
I'm not saying there is only one reality; I don't know what I believe on this subject.

[perceptrons]

I'm not saying there is only one reality; I don't know what I believe on this subject.
So you're saying you might believe that there are multiple realities?

[Praetor]

So you're saying you might believe that there are multiple realities?
Yes.

[perceptrons]

So, what would you define reality as?

[GeeBee]

So, what would you define reality as?

"Father Knows Best"

/Answers from Utah.

[Praetor]

So, what would you define reality as?
That's kind of the heart of what I'm doubting. Part of me believes that a reality is a reality and just because people interpret it different ways doesn't make it less of a reality. Another part of me, perhaps a bigger part, questions what the definition and purpose of a reality is if people interpret it different ways. If there's no such thing as an objective, perfect observer to reality then what is reality anyway? You know?

[perceptrons]

That's kind of the heart of what I'm doubting. Part of me believes that a reality is a reality and just because people interpret it different ways doesn't make it less of a reality. Another part of me, perhaps a bigger part, questions what the definition and purpose of a reality is if people interpret it different ways. If there's no such thing as an objective, perfect observer to reality then what is reality anyway? You know?
If I put something in a box, lock it away so you can never prove what's in it, never tell you what's in it, is there a truth value to what is inside it?

[Praetor]

If I put something in a box, lock it away so you can never prove what's in it, never tell you what's in it, is there a truth value to what is inside it?
That's different. In this scenario, you know what is in the box. In the scenario previously being discussed, who knows what the true color yellow is?

As it stands right now, I'm not totally comfortable with either position.

[perceptrons]

That's different. In this scenario, you know what is in the box. In the scenario previously being discussed, who knows what the true color yellow is?

As it stands right now, I'm not totally comfortable with either position.
Ok, let's say that I died without telling you. Is there a truth value?

We test, and see. It's rather easy. Yellow is just a name of a wavelength of light, nothing more.

[Animalhill]

Ok, let's say that I died without telling you. Is there a truth value?

We test, and see. It's rather easy. Yellow is just a name of a wavelength of light, nothing more.
But if the way my brain interperates that particular wavelength differs from yours... this is a conversation that could go for days.

[perceptrons]

But if the way my brain interperates that particular wavelength differs from yours... this is a conversation that could go for days.
Our brains don't matter, we have instruments to test wavelengths.

[Praetor]

We test, and see. It's rather easy. Yellow is just a name of a wavelength of light, nothing more.
Yes, and yellow as a wavelength can be quantified and measured. But not as a color. We might both see a wave with a wavelength of 570nm but we see different yellows. Show me one person who knows what yellow really looks like and that would hold a truth value. But I don't know if either one of our yellows technically hold a truth value. Practically, however, it is of no importance.

edit: It's like the difference between frequency and pitch. Sit us both in a room and play us a 3 kHz constant noise and we will be hearing a 3kHz constant noise. But what is the pitch? What does 3 kHz really sound like? We will both be hearing 3kHz but will be interpreting pitch differently. Who's to say what 3kHz truly sounds like?

[Animalhill]

Our brains don't matter, we have instruments to test wavelengths.
On the contrary, I believe it is the only thing that matters in terms of what we consider reality.

[perceptrons]

Yes, and yellow as a wavelength can be quantified and measured. But not as a color. We might both see a wave with a wavelength of 570nm but we see different yellows. Show me one person who knows what yellow really looks like and that would hold a truth value. But I don't know if either one of our yellows technically hold a truth value. Practically, however, it is of no importance.

edit: It's like the difference between frequency and pitch. Sit us both in a room and play us a 3 kHz constant noise and we will be hearing a 3kHz constant noise. But what is the pitch? What does 3 kHz really sound like? We will both be hearing 3kHz but will be interpreting pitch differently. Who's to say what 3kHz truly sounds like?
Yellow is just the name given to a wavelength, whether or not we can process "true" yellow is of no importance.

[Praetor]

Yellow is just the name given to a wavelength, whether or not we can process "true" yellow is of no importance.
I would say that it is quite important. Would a reality that no one knows/has ever known/could ever know really matter?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if a true reality does exist (which I'm leaning towards 'no'), then that reality would be of no importance.

[perceptrons]

I would say that it is quite important. Would a reality that no one knows/has ever known/could ever know really matter?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if a true reality does exist (which I'm leaning towards 'no'), then that reality would be of no importance.
Let's refer back to my thought experiment then, I'm dead, you can't ever prove what I put in the box, is there still a truth value to what is inside the box?

Being able to observe reality has no bearing on it.

[Praetor]

Going in circles now. We are literally right back where we started lol. Best to agree to disagree.

[perceptrons]

Going in circles now. We are literally right back where we started lol. Best to agree to disagree.
I just want to know if there is a truth value to the contents of the box, then we can.

[Praetor]

I've already said that that analogy is flawed. I've also said I'm not 100% sure on how I feel about the subject.

[oldwirehands]

Reality is a whole when we observe it. As evolved conscious beings, we create this world. There nothing outside of it. There is no "ultimate reality".

There was a lot of bullshit in this video.

[perceptrons]

I've already said that that analogy is flawed. I've also said I'm not 100% sure on how I feel about the subject.
But I fixed the analogy after you claimed it was flawed due to my knowledge of the contents. If I died, I am no longer a part of the equation.

Reality is a whole when we observe it. As evolved conscious beings, we create this world. There nothing outside of it. There is no "ultimate reality".

There was a lot of bullshit in this video.
What does our observance have to do with reality? We created the world?

[macabre]

One of the funniest philosophical arguments against skepticism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_is_a_hand

[Josh Weinstein]

I perceive reality as to which that I have experienced myself. I have a mother and a father, because those are the two people that raised me. Yet, how do I know they are my biological parents? I believe in those in which I call my friends, because I have known them and interacted with them over several years. Yet, how do I know if Jesus Christ ever existed? According to a book called "The New Testament," Jesus Christ was a person with several apostles. Yet, it's hard for me to believe in him since I never met him in person. President Barack Obama is apparently the leader of the country I live in. Yet, I am not 100% sure if he really exists. I never seen him in person. Every person who commented on this thread could in fact be just one singular person under various personas. I am not 100% sure so as far as I know, all but one of you exist.

[Machu505]

I am the only one.

[GeeBee]

I perceive reality as to which that I have experienced myself. I have a mother and a father, because those are the two people that raised me. Yet, how do I know they are my biological parents? I believe in those in which I call my friends, because I have known them and interacted with them over several years. Yet, how do I know if Jesus Christ ever existed? According to a book called "The New Testament," Jesus Christ was a person with several apostles. Yet, it's hard for me to believe in him since I never met him in person. President Barack Obama is apparently the leader of the country I live in. Yet, I am not 100% sure if he really exists. I never seen him in person. Every person who commented on this thread could in fact be just one singular person under various personas. I am not 100% sure so as far as I know, all but one of you exist.

:unsure:Tough way to go through life...

[Josh Weinstein]

:unsure:Tough way to go through life...

I'm perfectly happy.

[GeeBee]

I'm perfectly happy.

Which implies that you AND happiness exist.

[keepitwolf]

cool idea, i guess.

[GeeBee]

cool idea, i guess.

If not old.

[keepitwolf]

yeah, it's not like Plato didn't talk about this shit lol.