Sen. Ted Kennedy is dead.

[GuitarR0cker1]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TedKennedy/story?id=6692022

:-(

[saysmydoctor]

Yeah.

Sad day.

Shit.

[anthonydarko]

A shame, he was such a great politician. RIP

[open mind]

sad news.

[Simulcast]

Rip

[maxvsmaradona]

Eh, it was bound to happen sooner or later.

[WhoSaidThat?]

Dude was a legend.

[JTrain12]

yea that is sad...RIP

[saysmydoctor]

Not going to lie, it's not like Kennedy's last days were honorable in anyway. He seemed to have a retarded sense of entitlement concerning that Senate seat. He should have retired years ago, it was irresponsible to remain. Same with Byrd.

[FueledByRock]

He was a great man.

[billyboatkid]

Sad. RIP.

[zion the lion]

I hope this doesnt become a complete circus with dozens of mistresses coming out with what they claim to be his children, and all of his skeletons waltzing out of his closet.

But it's not like it's a shock, I'm sure everyone saw it coming. He lived a long life, he accomplished things, and as bad as I feel for the family, I'm not shocked or phased by this news at all.

[J.C.]

Ugh, not unexpected, but no less sad. RIP Teddy.

[saysmydoctor]

Let's play a game: how long before his death becomes politicized by the Democrats? I give it about a week.

[thatwasamoment]

Say hi to Mary Jo.

[open mind]

Let's play a game: how long before his death becomes politicized by the Democrats? I give it about a week.

it's going to be used by both sides.

the dems will say let's pass healthcare reform for ole ted, and the repubs will say ted wouldn't go for it so we won't either.

[TheByrus]

He was hardly a great man; he should have gone to prison for murdering that poor girl.

[saysmydoctor]

Moar chappaquidick jokez plz

[Liz_who?]

One less Kennedy in politics is not too sad for me. He was an all-around mess. Sorry, but thats the way I view it.

[J.C.]

One less Kennedy in politics is not too sad for me. He was an all-around mess. Sorry, but thats the way I view it.

Shut up, dumbass.

[Liz_who?]

Shut up, dumbass.

Wow. You sound like you could hold a intelligent conversation! lol Just because you love the guy doesn't mean everyone has to. I have a right to my opinion and stand by it. ;-)

[x togepi x]

it's going to be used by both sides.

the dems will say let's pass healthcare reform for ole ted, and the repubs will say ted wouldn't go for it so we won't either.

i'm not entirely sure how anyone with a brain is going to listen to the republicans invoking kennedy like that. if anything, the only reason he wouldn't have gone for the bill is because it wasn't doing enough.

still sad.

[open mind]

Wow. You sound like you could hold a intelligent conversation! lol Just because you love the guy doesn't mean everyone has to. I have a right to my opinion and stand by it. ;-)

you have a right to your opinion but it's not one rooted in reality....unless you think authoring over 300 bills that passed into law qualifies someone as a mess.

[J.C.]

Wow. You sound like you could hold a intelligent conversation! lol Just because you love the guy doesn't mean everyone has to. Can you really say he was a perfect guy/ politician? I have a right to my opinion and stand by it. :)

It has nothing to do with liking him or thinking he was a perfect person, it's a matter of decency. Your statement didn't come after he announced his retirement from politics, it came immediately following his death. The fact that you're reduced to hurling insults right after his passing only highlights your own imperfections as a human being.

As far as politics go, if you claim to be a conservative interested in preserving what America is, you should appreciate the role the Kennedys played in helping shape what it's become. For the sake of argument, give me the piece of legislation that Ted Kennedy pushed for that has made you or this country worse off.

[Liz_who?]

you have a right to your opinion but it's not one rooted in reality...unless you think someone having over 300 bills that they authored passed into law qualifies them as a mess.

1- His personal life was a mess. Prove me wrong. Please.
2- He may have passed many of those bills, but my feelings toward any of the Kennedy's is still harsh. Most of them are in the position they are because of their name. He had many followers that went with the family, and could pass as many bills as he wanted. That doesn't make them right. I'm not saying he did nothing right, but I will never agree with his general views.
Lets turn this around. If Bush died, almost everyone would make jokes and be happy. (I'm not a Bush fan btw) It's because he is a liberal democrat that I'll be attacked for not balling my eyes out about his death. How sad that if you don't support liberal democrats, you're wrong. All I am saying is that he won't be missed by me. I don't hate the guy. I just don't care for him.

[open mind]

i'm not entirely sure how anyone with a brain is going to listen to the republicans invoking kennedy like that. if anything, the only reason he wouldn't have gone for the bill is because it wasn't doing enough.

still sad.

you have to take into account the intelligence level of the people repubs will be saying it to.

[Liz_who?]

It has nothing to do with liking him or thinking he was a perfect person, it's a matter of decency. Your statement didn't come after he announced his retirement from politics or something, it came immediately following his death. The fact that you're reduced to hurling insults after his passing only highlights your own imperfections as a human being.

As far as politics go, if you claim to be a conservative interested in preserving what America is, you should appreciate the role the Kennedy's played in helping shape what it's become. But just for the sake of argument, give me a piece of legislation that Ted Kennedy pushed for that has made you or this country worse off.

Im sorry, but when did I say I was a conservative? lol I'm one way or the other? Really?

I should have remembered. This is a message board with young posters. I'll be ousted for not being a Obama-type worshiper.

[x togepi x]

you have to take into account the intelligence level of the people repubs will be saying it to.

most of those people are going to be like "BOO KENNEDY" anyway. i mean, around here, before he had cancer, everyone shit talked him. he's a decidedly liberal figure. I don't think the republicans are going to try and sway people depressed about his death towards their side.

[J.C.]

Im sorry, but when did I say I was a conservative? lol I'm one way or the other? Really?.

a) you came in this thread, not hours after his death, claiming it's good that there's now one less Kennedy in politics
b) it says so in your fucking profile, Issac Newton

[J.C.]

That doesn't make them right. I'm not saying he did nothing right, but I will never agree with his general views.

I already asked you once and you ignored me: what legislation did he ever push for that has resulted in you being worse off?

[open mind]

1- His personal life was a mess. Prove me wrong. Please.
2- He may have passed many of those bills, but my feelings toward any of the Kennedy's is still harsh. Most of them are in the position they are because of their name. He had many followers that went with the family, and could pass as many bills as he wanted. That doesn't make them right. I'm not saying he did nothing right, but I will never agree with his general views.
Lets turn this around. If Bush died, almost everyone would make jokes and be happy. (I'm not a Bush fan btw) It's because he is a liberal democrat that I'll be attacked for not balling my eyes out about his death. How sad that if you don't support liberal democrats, you're wrong. All I am saying is that he won't be missed by me. I don't hate the guy. I just don't care for him.

1-he had a steady marriage for the last 17 years of his life, and was loved by his entire family.
2-you can't prove that the kennedy name was that much of a benefit, and i could easily argue that it was seen as a big negative in the eyes of many. the man was well known for being bi-partisan so the idea that his name is the only thing that got his bills passed is ridiculous....i don't understand how you can think taking care of the sick and disabled, raising the minimum wage, enviormental protection, reforming education, and standing up for civil rights are bad things to fight for but that's not important here.
3-you're making an emotional argument while i'm dealing with facts. i don't really have a problem with you not being saddened by the man's death, i'm just taking issue with your unfounded assertions.

[open mind]

most of those people are going to be like "BOO KENNEDY" anyway. i mean, around here, before he had cancer, everyone shit talked him. he's a decidedly liberal figure. I don't think the republicans are going to try and sway people depressed about his death towards their side.

you're probably right but on the other hand some republicans have recently said that healthcare reform would be much easier to pass if only bi-partisan ted kennedy was more involved.

[zach]

Im sorry, but when did I say I was a conservative? lol I'm one way or the other? Really?

I should have remembered. This is a message board with young posters. I'll be ousted for not being a Obama-type worshiper.

Female - 21 Years Old

You must be so fucking worldly.

[Machu505]

:bluesad:

[jeremypeele]

now if every other politician would follow his lead.





in no way am i being serious.

[thatwasamoment]

Moar chappaquidick jokez plzYour thoughts on her tragic death?

Anyway, I personally love the Kennedy's. Short list of Ted's accomplishments:

The Civil Rights Act of 1964
The Voting Rights Act of 1965
The COBRA Act of 1985
The Americans with Disabilities Act in 1990
The Family and Medical Leave Act in 1993
Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996

It is sad that he wasn't able to see true health care reform passed in his lifetime.

[Praetor]

Let's play a game: how long before his death becomes politicized by the Democrats? I give it about a week.
Yep.

RIP though, I really respected the man and a lot of his work.

[Esrb99]

raising the minimum wage, reforming education.

I don't know how he may have affected either, but I'll give you reasons why I feel both have have hurt ME personally (and probably america as a majority.) When I was hired at ARBY's at 16, I made $5.65 an hour- 40 cents over minimum wage here in MO. I was told that we received evals every nine months and was considered for raises at these times. however, since every year minimum wage has gone up, I now have made minimum wage since june '07. some may say, 'but you're making more,' but alas, no. the cost of living (and at least gas and college, etc.) has gone up much higher proportionately than minimum wage. not meaning that it should go higher, but that because I got my 'raise' I am in no position for bargaining. So thanks to 'raising minimum wage' I effectively received a pay cut percentage-wise, and NOW spend more just to keep going to work, than ever before!

now, you say edu. reform. I don't know what kind of hand if any he had in the following, but one thing has been a HUGE pet peeve of mine for the past few years. Accelerated Reading, AKA AR. this was a reading comprehension program adopted by my school system when I was in the third grade. essentially, one would take a 'placement test' and you would receive a rage score, such as 3.2-4.1. the rage was grade equivalent, meaning that you were allowed to check books out of the library ONLY in that range- third grade, to early fourth grade. AR also incorporated a points system- books were worth a certain number of points- usually between .5 and say 10 or so- the bigger and more seemingly 'difficult' books with more points. you were to each quarter read enough books and test on them, receiving however many points depending on your score and the books' value. This program has been 'praised' for upping literacy here, but I call bullshit. all it has done it tell kids to read a bunch of books that don't challenge them and get to a point value , then quit reading. I personally love literature; hence why I am an english and EE major. However, my sister who's 14 and relatively smart, has it ingrained in her head that reading is reserved for AR and point getting. It's absurd.

[open mind]

I don't know how he may have affected either, but I'll give you reasons why I feel both have have hurt ME personally (and probably america as a majority.) When I was hired at ARBY's at 16, I made $5.65 an hour- 40 cents over minimum wage here in MO. I was told that we received evals every nine months and was considered for raises at these times. however, since every year minimum wage has gone up, I now have made minimum wage since june '07. some may say, 'but you're making more,' but alas, no. the cost of living (and at least gas and college, etc.) has gone up much higher proportionately than minimum wage. not meaning that it should go higher, but that because I got my 'raise' I am in no position for bargaining. So thanks to 'raising minimum wage' I effectively received a pay cut percentage-wise, and NOW spend more just to keep going to work, than ever before!

now, you say edu. reform. I don't know what kind of hand if any he had in the following, but one thing has been a HUGE pet peeve of mine for the past few years. Accelerated Reading, AKA AR. this was a reading comprehension program adopted by my school system when I was in the third grade. essentially, one would take a 'placement test' and you would receive a rage score, such as 3.2-4.1. the rage was grade equivalent, meaning that you were allowed to check books out of the library ONLY in that range- third grade, to early fourth grade. AR also incorporated a points system- books were worth a certain number of points- usually between .5 and say 10 or so- the bigger and more seemingly 'difficult' books with more points. you were to each quarter read enough books and test on them, receiving however many points depending on your score and the books' value. This program has been 'praised' for upping literacy here, but I call bullshit. all it has done it tell kids to read a bunch of books that don't challenge them and get to a point value , then quit reading. I personally love literature; hence why I am an english and EE major. However, my sister who's 14 and relatively smart, has it ingrained in her head that reading is reserved for AR and point getting. It's absurd.

the federal minimum wage doesn't go up every year, it's only the federal increases that kennedy was (partly) responsible for....but it'd be nice if the minimum wage was somehow tied to inflation. if you had gotten a raise with no minimum wage hike you'd still be in the same boat though because cost of living rises with or without minimum wage increases, so i'm not seeing how the state and federal governments raising the minimum wage hurt you.

i've never heard of that program so i doubt if it's federal, which would mean the senate has nothing to do with it....but i do see your larger point that not all education (or any other type of) reform is automattically good reform.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

3IDN4b58pTU

[MyNameIsRoss]

Rip

[open mind]

3IDN4b58pTU

it was made at a much sadder time and a large chunk of it is his brothers words, but i much prefer this speach.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/ekennedytributetorfk.html

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

it was made at a much sadder time and a large chunk of it is his brothers words, but i much prefer this speach.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/ekennedytributetorfk.html


ya that eulogy was great. i was trying to find a decent version on youtube but couldn't. thanks.

[_Sumeet_]

Not going to lie, it's not like Kennedy's last days were honorable in anyway. He seemed to have a retarded sense of entitlement concerning that Senate seat. He should have retired years ago, it was irresponsible to remain. Same with Byrd.

MA would have reelected Kennedy on his deathbed. Quite honestly, I don't think he could have resigned; we wouldn't have that.

[_Sumeet_]

Rest in peace Sen. Kennedy. He was truly a sympathetic and giving person.

[saysmydoctor]

MA would have reelected Kennedy on his deathbed. Quite honestly, I don't think he could have resigned; we wouldn't have that.
Probably a lot of truth in that.

It is sad though.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

INJ2IaBsqC0

SicFn8rqPPE

sut4fl-YRbA

[xshady121]

Rest in peace Sen. Kennedy. He was truly a sympathetic and giving person.

I didn't come in here to rag on Sen. Kennedy, because unlike most non-liberals I can appreciate what he has done in the senate, but calling him a "truly sympathetic and giving person" is just hilarious.

[Jason Tate]

I didn't come in here to rag on Sen. Kennedy, because unlike most non-liberals I can appreciate what he has done in the senate, but calling him a "truly sympathetic and giving person" is just hilarious.
Both words fit just fine ... stop being an ass.

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/26/kennedy-successor-to-be-c_n_269127.html
Special election to be had

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/08/26/byrd-wants-health-bill-renamed-for-kennedy/
Byrd wants bill named in honor Kennedy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/26/bidens-emotional-kennedy_n_269331.html
Emotional remarks from Biden

[jwicklun]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/26/kennedy-successor-to-be-c_n_269127.html
Special election to be had

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/08/26/byrd-wants-health-bill-renamed-for-kennedy/
Byrd wants bill named in honor Kennedy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/26/bidens-emotional-kennedy_n_269331.html
Emotional remarks from Biden
as much as I want healthcare reform, I don't want Ted Kennedy's death to be exploited to get this bill passed (once a proposal gets through). Other than that rest in peace and thank you for you contributions in the senate.

[macabre]

Rush Limbaugh just remarked that Senator Kennedy, a person who loved life, would never have supported a bill that denies people their right to life by rationing care and thus would have been opposed to the public option. X-)

[GeeBee]

Say hi to Mary Jo.

He was hardly a great man; he should have gone to prison for murdering that poor girl.

I didn't come in here to rag on Sen. Kennedy, because unlike most non-liberals I can appreciate what he has done in the senate, but calling him a "truly sympathetic and giving person" is just hilarious.

Knew it was only a matter of time before assholes came in to disparage a human being the very day his death. Of course, I dunno what I expected. xshady jumped all over the untimely murder of an abortion doctor not long ago. Par for the course I suppose.

Both words fit just fine ... stop being an ass.

Ditto, and aimed at everyone who's got a chip on their shoulder about liberals or his personal life. Can the guy RIP for a DAY before you trounce on him?

[shit stroll]

Pailin supporters are sympathetic.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/142220/sarah_palin%27s_facebook_%27friends %27_celebrate_ted_kennedy%27s_death %3A_%22one_less_socialist%2C%22_%22 good_riddens%22/

[GeeBee]

Pailin supporters are sympathetic.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/142220/sarah_palin%27s_facebook_%27friends %27_celebrate_ted_kennedy%27s_death %3A_%22one_less_socialist%2C%22_%22 good_riddens%22/

Classy. Always classy.

[jwicklun]

Pailin supporters are sympathetic.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/142220/sarah_palin%27s_facebook_%27friends %27_celebrate_ted_kennedy%27s_death %3A_%22one_less_socialist%2C%22_%22 good_riddens%22/
something classy actually coming out of Palin's mouth. thats a first. wish I could say the same for her supporters.

[Animalhill]

something classy actually coming out of Palin's mouth. thats a first. wish I could say the same for her supporters.
Its bullshit painted pretty. She's a thoughtless machine of the GOP that failed and won't shut off.

[saysmydoctor]

Good riddens?

[GeeBee]

something classy actually coming out of Palin's mouth. thats a first. wish I could say the same for her supporters.

Not really. For all the trash she's talked about Kennedy while he was living, it's nothing more than a transparent ploy to appear sympathetic.

[GeeBee]

Good riddens?

The IQ of Palin's followers summed up in two words.

[NeededYouMost]

When I die, i want a post on AP.net

[GeeBee]

When I die, i want a post on AP.net

The last two posts I've read from you almost make me hope that day comes speedily.

[saysmydoctor]

New avatar. This is really so sad.

[NeededYouMost]

The last two posts I've read from you almost make me hope that day comes speedily.
i've never had someone wish death upon me. you must be a honkey who has no friends and posts on here 30times a day.

[J.C.]

I didn't come in here to rag on Sen. Kennedy, because unlike most non-liberals I can appreciate what he has done in the senate, but calling him a "truly sympathetic and giving person" is just hilarious.

Considering that you're going to be having people come out of the woodwork to share their personal stories about Ted Kennedy, your statement is no less hilarious and certainly more ill-timed. You already have Joe Scarborough saying that after he decided to resign from the House in '01, in part due to his youngest son's battle with diabetes, Ted Kennedy wrote him a letter and was the only one who cared enough to reach out to him.

EDIT:

Kennedy was attending his daughter's graduation from a local private girls Catholic school and among the other graduates was the daughter of G. Gordon Liddy, who was unavoidably detained serving time for his role in Watergate. Of all the parents there, Kennedy was the one who walked over to the isolated girl and shared a word with her about pride and forbearance.

http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1716697

[FueledByRock]

Pailin supporters are sympathetic.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/142220/sarah_palin%27s_facebook_%27friends %27_celebrate_ted_kennedy%27s_death %3A_%22one_less_socialist%2C%22_%22 good_riddens%22/

That is just fucking sickening.

[ISO1600]

Everyone has their spotty moments, but highlighting them not even 24 hours after a death of a person really shows how low humans can go. Truly disgraceful. However, Kennedy shows indeed the good qualities we often take for granted in society today; resilience, dedication, and steadfastness to name a few.

He wasn't perfect--no one is. But to dedicate his life to championing rights for the voiceless and bettering not only America but the world, fighting personal battles at times, shows the potential of human character.

RIP.

[J.C.]

Pailin supporters are sympathetic.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/142220/sarah_palin%27s_facebook_%27friends %27_celebrate_ted_kennedy%27s_death %3A_%22one_less_socialist%2C%22_%22 good_riddens%22/

Did they accuse Obama and his death panel of pulling the plug on Teddy in order to manufacture sympathy and justify healthcare reform?

[TheByrus]

Knew it was only a matter of time before assholes came in to disparage a human being the very day his death. Of course, I dunno what I expected. xshady jumped all over the untimely murder of an abortion doctor not long ago. Par for the course I suppose.



Right, I'm the asshole for thinking a person should go to prison for murder.

[open mind]

Rush Limbaugh just remarked that Senator Kennedy, a person who loved life, would never have supported a bill that denies people their right to life by rationing care and thus would have been opposed to the public option. X-)

how completely predictable.

[Codi23]

Say hi to Mary Jo.

Oh shit haha.

RIP Ted Kennedy; I liked the things you did in politics, didn't like the things you did in your personal life. That sums it up for me. Goodbye.

[x togepi x]

I don't know how he may have affected either, but I'll give you reasons why I feel both have have hurt ME personally (and probably america as a majority.) When I was hired at ARBY's at 16, I made $5.65 an hour- 40 cents over minimum wage here in MO. I was told that we received evals every nine months and was considered for raises at these times. however, since every year minimum wage has gone up, I now have made minimum wage since june '07. some may say, 'but you're making more,' but alas, no. the cost of living (and at least gas and college, etc.) has gone up much higher proportionately than minimum wage. not meaning that it should go higher, but that because I got my 'raise' I am in no position for bargaining. So thanks to 'raising minimum wage' I effectively received a pay cut percentage-wise, and NOW spend more just to keep going to work, than ever before!

now, you say edu. reform. I don't know what kind of hand if any he had in the following, but one thing has been a HUGE pet peeve of mine for the past few years. Accelerated Reading, AKA AR. this was a reading comprehension program adopted by my school system when I was in the third grade. essentially, one would take a 'placement test' and you would receive a rage score, such as 3.2-4.1. the rage was grade equivalent, meaning that you were allowed to check books out of the library ONLY in that range- third grade, to early fourth grade. AR also incorporated a points system- books were worth a certain number of points- usually between .5 and say 10 or so- the bigger and more seemingly 'difficult' books with more points. you were to each quarter read enough books and test on them, receiving however many points depending on your score and the books' value. This program has been 'praised' for upping literacy here, but I call bullshit. all it has done it tell kids to read a bunch of books that don't challenge them and get to a point value , then quit reading. I personally love literature; hence why I am an english and EE major. However, my sister who's 14 and relatively smart, has it ingrained in her head that reading is reserved for AR and point getting. It's absurd.


You shouldn't be blaming raising minimum wage because you didn't get a raise. Plenty of people have been getting scheduled raises after the minimum went up. Arby's is just a bad company that's using it as an excuse not to give you a raise when there's some other reason that you're not getting one. They're hardly tied, and yeah, inflation has been rising higher than the minimum wage does. That's why it should be increased more, but it probably won't. things would probably be worse if the minimum didn't raise. it's possible the company could have been telling you "yeah, we talk about giving you a raise but not this eval" so that you'll stick around longer than you would normally.

As for AR, that has nothing to do with the education reforms kennedy enacted since that program isn't nationally mandated. i agree with you, it's a stupid program that ends up turning reading into a chore for a lot of people/makes people read below their level or only for points but you probably should be blaming the state of missouri or the particular school districts for implementing it at all and implementing it in the bad way in which they did.

[GeeBee]

Right, I'm the asshole for thinking a person should go to prison for murdering someone.

No, you're an asshole for thinking it's appropriate to dredge over that whole issue on the very day the man died.

Plus, the only thing you know about the whole "incident" is what you've been told on AM radio, so says my ten bucks.

[xshady121]

Pailin supporters are sympathetic.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/142220/sarah_palin%27s_facebook_%27friends %27_celebrate_ted_kennedy%27s_death %3A_%22one_less_socialist%2C%22_%22 good_riddens%22/

Classy move by Palin.

What do you expect from Palin supporters though.

[TheByrus]

No, you're an asshole for thinking it's appropriate to dredge over that whole issue on the very day the man died.

Plus, the only thing you know about the whole "incident" is what you've been told on AM radio, so says my ten bucks.


Right, because the conservatives put the body in his car and Teddy is a saint.

[GeeBee]

Classy move by Palin.

What do you expect from Palin supporters though.

Not really.

A shred of humanity.

[GeeBee]

Right, because the conservatives put the body in his car and Teddy is a saint.

Jesus man. No one's arguing with your points. What I AM saying is you've picked about the most inappropriate time to dredge that shit up, and in so doing, have come off as a heartless prick whose politics is more important to him than any sense of humanity.

[TheByrus]

Jesus man. No one's arguing with your points. What I AM saying is you've picked about the most inappropriate time to dredge that shit up, and in so doing, have come off as a heartless prick whose politics is more important to him than any sense of humanity.


Actually, I'm arguing the exact opposite. People should remember who he was as a person, not only what he accomplished in the Senate.

[GeeBee]

Actually, I'm arguing the exact opposite. People should remember who he was as a person, not only what he accomplished in the Senate.

Here's hoping that at your funeral, people define who you were as a person by the singular worst misstep you ever made.

[ISO1600]

Here's hoping that at your funeral, people define who you were as a person by the singular worst misstep you ever made.

+1. So true.

[TheByrus]

Here's hoping that at your funeral, people define who you were as a person by the singular worst misstep you ever made.


Here's to hoping.

[GeeBee]

Here's to hoping.

I definitely know how you'll be remembered in THIS thread.

[Machu505]

It saddens me that Byrd is probably next. :-(

[TheByrus]

I definitely know how you'll be remembered in THIS thread.


Maybe my family can buy / politically pressure my way out of it.

[Jason Tate]

Maybe my family can buy / politically pressure my way out of it.
Quite an accusation. What happened was tragic -- but accidents happen.

[open mind]

Maybe my family can buy / politically pressure my way out of it.

can you tell me the facts of the case in your own words without consulting a random conspiracy website?

[apoemtothedead]

Actually, I'm arguing the exact opposite. People should remember who he was as a person, not only what he accomplished in the Senate.
You mean the kind of person that saved thousands of lives through the bills he authored?

[TheByrus]

can you tell me the facts of the case in your own words without consulting a random conspiracy website?

Here's the facts: Ted Kennedy left the party with a woman who was not his wife, and while driving home managed to drive his car off a bridge. Upon saving himself, he promptly went home without calling any emergency services.

He denies that he had been drinking the night it happened.

[TheByrus]

You mean the kind of person that saved thousands of lives through the bills he authored?


Whoops, I'm sorry.

He made up for it, then?

[open mind]

Here's the facts: Ted Kennedy left the party with a woman who was not his wife, and while driving home managed to drive his car off a bridge. Upon saving himself, he promptly went home without calling any emergency services.

He denies that he had been drinking the night it happened.

i don't understand the sinister nature of leaving a party with a woman but it sounds like leaving the scene of an accident to me.

[Jason Tate]

Here's the facts: Ted Kennedy left the party with a woman who was not his wife, and while driving home managed to drive his car off a bridge. Upon saving himself, he promptly went home without calling any emergency services.

He denies that he had been drinking the night it happened.
Leaving out quite a bit there turbo, as your last point is not a fact ... he dived numerous times to try and save her after the crash.

[TheByrus]

sounds like leaving the scene of an accident to me.

Who knows, maybe he tried to save her.

[saysmydoctor]

Here's the facts: Ted Kennedy left the party with a woman who was not his wife, and while driving home managed to drive his car off a bridge. Upon saving himself, he promptly went home without calling any emergency services.

He denies that he had been drinking the night it happened.
If you can possibly refresh my memory, was he ever found guilty in a court of law?

[TheByrus]

Leaving out quite a bit there turbo ... like how he dived numerous times to try and save her.

That's just his word. If he was so desperate to save her, why didn't he call or tell anyone?

[open mind]

Who knows, maybe he tried to save her.

it'd still be leaving the scene.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

That's just his word. If he was so desperate to save her, why didn't he call or tell anyone?

Who knows, maybe he tried to save her.

...

[TheByrus]

If you can possibly refresh my memory, was he ever found guilty in a court of law?

Nope.

[J.C.]

Who knows, maybe he tried to save her.

Apparently you must know, since you're the one discrediting his character and his entire life's work over the events of one night in his 77 years on this planet.

[saysmydoctor]

Nope.
Thanks for bringing up a nonissue then.

[Jason Tate]

That's just his word. If he was so desperate to save her, why didn't he call or tell anyone?
He did. By even the "conspiracy theorists" version of the story he called and told a variety of people. None of them being the authorities, however.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

your last point is not a fact ... he dived numerous times to try and save her after the crash.
...

[Jason Tate]

Nope.
Wrong. Kennedy pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident after causing injury.

[open mind]

Nope.

do you have any sort of proof you can present to back up your charges? motive? witnesses? physical evidence? anything beyond heresay and wild speculation?

[wesgemm08]

RIP Teddy, one of the great statesmen in US history. Joe Biden's tribute today was one of the most heartfelt speeches I've heard in awhile. Biden may speak off the cuff at times, but the VP is a true class act.

[GeeBee]

Byrus...turn off Hannity for a few minutes.

[TheByrus]

Wrong. Kennedy pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident after causing injury.

And he also admitted to drinking previous to driving her home.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

not that i think his personal mistakes should be brought up at this time, but in all honesty, it isn't THAT much of a stretch to think kennedy got off easy for the crash incident. it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what 'likely' happened that night. proof? no. thats why it never went to court. that doesn't let people off the hook for being naive about it though.
that being said, the man just died. recognizing his achievements doesn't mean you condone his mistakes. he did a lot for society, a lot that deserves respect, especially at this time.

[Jason Tate]

And he also admitted to drinking previous to driving her home.

Here's the facts: Ted Kennedy left the party with a woman who was not his wife, and while driving home managed to drive his car off a bridge. Upon saving himself, he promptly went home without calling any emergency services.

He denies that he had been drinking the night it happened.

Are you bi-polar?

[TheByrus]

Are you bi-polar?

I was under the impression that he had denied drinking but after reading through the FBI files on the investigation, I see he admitted in court he had been drinking.

[GeeBee]

I was under the impression that he had denied drinking but after reading through the FBI files on the investigation, I see he admitted in court he had been drinking.

You're under many false impressions.

[J.C.]

Byrus needs to get ticketed for PUI(posting under the impression).

[TheByrus]

He did. By even the "conspiracy theorists" version of the story he called and told a variety of people. None of them being the authorities, however.


In his interview in the FBI files, he stated he didn't tell anyone until 8 am the next morning.

[open mind]

I was under the impression that he had denied drinking but after reading through the FBI files on the investigation, I see he admitted in court he had been drinking.

soooooooo.....you initially knew jack shit about what happened but still went ahead with the murderer accusations.

only now after being asked for a presentation of the facts do you bother with checking them.

[jwicklun]

Byrus...turn off Hannity for a few minutes.
good god....what has Hannity said about Ted's death?

[TheByrus]

soooooooo.....you initially knew jack shit about what happened but still went ahead with the murderer accusations.

only now after being asked for a presentation of the facts do you bother with checking them.


Sorry, it's been a while since High School history.

[GeeBee]

good god....what has Hannity said about Ted's death?

God only knows. He always just goes into a chappaquiddik rage-a-thon whenever Kennedy's name has been mentioned before.

[Jason Tate]

In his interview in the FBI files, he stated he didn't tell anyone until 8 am the next morning.
So ... I was right. I know. I read the report.

[GeeBee]

Sorry, it's been a while since High School history.

You've officially been caught in a web of Limbaugh bullshit. Perhaps time to disappear from this thread.

[TheByrus]

So ... I was right. I know. I read the report.


.......You were right about what? That he told his aids 8 hours later after having someone drive him home and sleeping it off?

edit: Home being his hotel room.

[jwicklun]

God only knows. He always just goes into a chappaquiddik rage-a-thon whenever Kennedy's name has been mentioned before.
Well you know Hannity. Apprarently no one loves America as much as him.

[GeeBee]

.......You were right about what? That he told his aids 8 hours later after having someone drive him home and sleeping it off?

edit: Home being his hotel room.

Keep grasping for those straws. You'll get one...

[Jason Tate]

.......You were right about what? That he told his aids 8 hours later after having someone drive him home and sleeping it off?

edit: Home being his hotel room.
You said "why didn't he call or tell anyone?" -- that was false. He did.

[GeeBee]

Well you know Hannity. Apprarently no one loves America as much as him.

Freedom-hater.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

I was under the impression that he had denied drinking but after reading through the FBI files on the investigation, I see he admitted in court he had been drinking.


he had 2 rum and cokes
http://foia.fbi.gov/chappaquiddick/chappaquiddick_pt01.pdf
pg. 37

one at 8 pm
one at 9:15

he left the house at 11:15 ( pg 35 (http://foia.fbi.gov/chappaquiddick/chappaquiddick_pt01.pdf) )

In his interview in the FBI files, he stated he didn't tell anyone until 8 am the next morning.

pg 40
http://foia.fbi.gov/chappaquiddick/chappaquiddick_pt01.pdf

after diving 7 or 8 times he walk backed to the cottage and told 3 people who went back to the scene and where mr. markham and mr . Gargan dove back in the water trying to save her


what are you reading?

[Codi23]

Byrus needs to get ticketed for PUI(posting under the impression).

Lol :thumbup:.

.......You were right about what? That he told his aids 8 hours later after having someone drive him home and sleeping it off?

edit: Home being his hotel room.

Wait; are you saying Ted Kennedy had AIDS?

[GeeBee]

Jesus, even a cursory reading of the Wikipedia article on the incident provides more insight than Byrus apparently has.

[TheByrus]

You said "why didn't he call or tell anyone?" -- that was false. He did.

Alright, he didn't call or tell anyone until 8 hours later the time which he spent back at his hotel and in bed.

How's that?

[jwicklun]

Freedom-hater.
lol I'm the freedomhater? Oh wait thats right. I don't live in real America.

[TheByrus]

he had 2 rum and cokes
http://foia.fbi.gov/chappaquiddick/chappaquiddick_pt01.pdf
pg. 37

one at 8 pm
one at 9:15

he left the house at 11:15 ( pg 35 (http://foia.fbi.gov/chappaquiddick/chappaquiddick_pt01.pdf) )



pg 40
http://foia.fbi.gov/chappaquiddick/chappaquiddick_pt01.pdf

after diving 7 or 8 times he walk backed to the cottage and told 3 people who went back to the scene and drove back in the water trying to save her


what are you reading?

Read part 2, page 1.

[GeeBee]

lol I'm the freedomhater? Oh wait thats right. I don't live in real America.

Can you see Russia from your front door? Do you hunt wolves from helicopters? Do you not see the Constitution as an entry from Jesus' diary? Do you not think men should be able to marry rocks and trees?

Your answers will determine whether you're a REAL american, my friend.
:-d

[GeeBee]

Read part 2, page 1.

Keep digging.

[jwicklun]

Can you see Russia from your front door? Do you hunt wolves from helicopters? Do you not see the Constitution as an entry from Jesus' diary? Do you not think men should be able to marry rocks and trees?

Your answers will determine whether you're a REAL american, my friend.
:-d
lets not forget believing that Jesus rode on Dinosaurs!

[Jason Tate]

Alright, he didn't call or tell anyone until 8 hours later the time which he spent back at his hotel and in bed.

How's that?
Not even close...

[TheByrus]

Not even close...

That's what he said in his interview in the FBI file.

[Jason Tate]

That's what he said in his interview in the FBI file.
http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?p=52556392#post52556 392

[open mind]

Sorry, it's been a while since High School history.

i wasn't aware that hearsay and speculation concerning the activities of modern americans was taught in high school history class.

[GeeBee]

:uhno:

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

Read part 2, page 1.

Read part 1 , pages 32-44

[eucademix]

rest in peace. he's done so much for the country.

[TheByrus]

Read part 1 , pages 32-44


I did. Yes, his stories are contradicting.

[open mind]

if there was anything of real substance behind this slander nixon would have found a way to make it stick.

[benlong]

being canadian american politics doesn't affect me greatly, so i don't know much about this whole ordeal, or about the man himself...from what i've heard, despite being human ted kennedy was a decent HUMAN BEING...
with that said, i'm sure if he came back and said this girl is dead, and there is a conspiracy, well he would have been pushed into it by people around him, because of the whole group think mentality...either way if most people had a potential murder/manslaughter/whatever case against them and people were pushing them to let it be covered up, most would allow it...from my understanding he pleaded guilty to leaving an accident causing bodily injury or something like that...SO pleading guilty usually isn't part of a conspiracy...even regular joes get plea bargains

[Codi23]

I thought it was pretty cut and dry that he fucked up in this situation way back then :shrug:.

Doesn't mean everything he's done since then is horrible; he has done a ton of excellent things for the people of our nation. I wish he would be remembered more for those good things.

You guys should read "Black Water"; just for the hell of it. It's not fact or anything, but it is an interesting book nonetheless.

[open mind]

I thought it was pretty cut and dry that he fucked up in this situation way back then :shrug:.

i don't think anyone believes he didn't screw up on a major level, but informed and reasonable people can't really call it murder.

[Codi23]

i don't think anyone believes he didn't screw up on a major level, but informed and reasonable people can't really call it murder.

Yeah, it was a sketchy situation; no one can really deny that. But what's done is done. We lost a powerful asset in our country this week...

[ISO1600]

It's a shame that Kennedy didn't do anything to stop the hordes of ignorant, misinformed people we have in America today :/

[Brianfarg]

I was so upset to see this this morning. RIP.

[DarkBlue13]

hated his politics, but RIP

[_Sumeet_]

I didn't come in here to rag on Sen. Kennedy, because unlike most non-liberals I can appreciate what he has done in the senate, but calling him a "truly sympathetic and giving person" is just hilarious.

You obviously have never spoken with the man. Perhaps it's my bias since he's done a lot for my school and community, but I think "sympathetic and giving" fits perfectly well.

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/26/772754/-GOP:-What-Kennedy-Would-Have-Wanted-Is-More-Delay

They haven't been paying attention.

[Duexy]

saudade :(

[Love As Arson]

It's interesting how and when some choose to be critical. In this instance,Kennedy's whole life is on trial;but conservatives never do this with,say,the Founding Fathers. Slavery,genocide,sexism,their class motivations,etc.,are all left out of their depictions of an era and the individuals living under it.

[zach]

More like DEAD KENNEDY! Amirite?

[FueledByRock]

More like DEAD KENNEDY! Amirite?

Fuck you, man.

[lauren<3s music]

Not going to lie, it's not like Kennedy's last days were honorable in anyway. He seemed to have a retarded sense of entitlement concerning that Senate seat. He should have retired years ago, it was irresponsible to remain. Same with Byrd.
disagree with that 100%.

[Machu505]

Byrd should never retire ever. He should just stay in until he's 126.

[lauren<3s music]

Byrd should never retire ever. He should just stay in until he's 126.
he may seem all shaky and frail but he knows what is up don't let the sweet old man act fool you.

[Machu505]

he may seem all shaky and frail but he knows what is up don't let the sweet old man act fool you.
He told Michael Vick what the fuck was up and opposed the Iraq War. That's enough for me.

The only thing I fear is Manchin's appointment when Byrd dies. :shudder:

[lauren<3s music]

He told Michael Vick what the fuck was up and opposed the Iraq War. That's enough for me.

The only thing I fear is Manchin's appointment when Byrd dies. :shudder:
could we start working on fixing your birth certificate now?

[Machu505]

could we start working on fixing your birth certificate now?
I'll just fake a southern accent so no questions will be raised.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

why so much love for robert byrd?
i admittedly don't know much about him besides his deplorable racial record. but everyone here seems to love him, i'm just wondering why.

[NeededYouMost]

Did he died?

[Machu505]

why so much love for robert byrd?
i admittedly don't know much about him besides his deplorable racial record. but everyone here seems to love him, i'm just wondering why.
He's one of the few real old-school greats of the Senate. West Virginians like myself love him because of all the great things he's done for the state. Hell, we've got a nine foot statue of him in our capitol rotunda.

And about his racial record, the most recent grade he got from the NAACP was a 100%. True, he was in the KKK, but that was a looooooong time ago and everyone makes mistakes. He's apologized for it literally a thousand times.

[Codi23]

Whoa; he was in the KKK?

Holy cow, I love the guy, but that's pretty terrible...

[zach]

Fuck you, man.
...Is this internet flirting?

[J.C.]

why so much love for robert byrd?
i admittedly don't know much about him besides his deplorable racial record. but everyone here seems to love him, i'm just wondering why.

Aren't you a Christian? And you're asking people why they believe in redemption?

[saysmydoctor]

I'm not denigrating Kennedy or Byrd's service at all and have nothing but the utmost respect for the two of them, I do think there is a point when a bit of personal responsibility comes into play. I'm not questioning either's grasp on the issues, I know full well that especially Kennedy is probably one of the most brilliant minds of our day. Maybe this stems from my personal support of term limitations, but he knew his health was declining. He pushed to change the law in Massachusetts because of it, he knew his days were numbered. If he knew he may not survive his full term, if he really cared about ensuring that Massachusetts had both Senators in Washington, he wouldn't have sought reelection. That's my personal opinion on the matter.

The sense of entitlement remark, I'll recant that because I probably crossed the line there a bit, but I'm not entirely off. I said the same of Rehnquist, I'd say the same of any senator/representative on either side of the aisle. There comes a point that you need to recognize your time in Congress is done. I feel Kennedy was irresponsible in that sense. I'm sorry. :shrug:

With that being said, looks like a special election in January.

Should Barney Frank run?

[GeeBee]

I'm not denigrating Kennedy or Byrd's service at all and have nothing but the utmost respect for the two of them, I do think there is a point when a bit of personal responsibility comes into play. I'm not questioning either's grasp on the issues, I know full well that especially Kennedy is probably one of the most brilliant minds of our day. Maybe this stems from my personal support of term limitations, but he knew his health was declining. He pushed to change the law in Massachusetts because of it, he knew his days were numbered. If he knew he may not survive his full term, if he really cared about ensuring that Massachusetts had both Senators in Washington, he wouldn't have sought reelection. That's my personal opinion on the matter.

The sense of entitlement remark, I'll recant that because I probably crossed the line there a bit, but I'm not entirely off. I said the same of Rehnquist, I'd say the same of any senator/representative on either side of the aisle. There comes a point that you need to recognize your time in Congress is done. I feel Kennedy was irresponsible in that sense. I'm sorry. :shrug:

With that being said, looks like a special election in January.

Should Barney Frank run?

I think people like Frank and Kennedy are NEEDED to stay long term in Congress. :shrug:

[saysmydoctor]

My support of term limits is a bigger flip-flop than Romney. I guess my irritation--and that's the wrong word--my issue is with him staying in Congress long term and it being detrimental to the people he is representing.

[saysmydoctor]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/08/barney_frank_says_he_will_not.html
Frank said no, so no need to even debate that.

[J.C.]

Replaying his DNC speech from last year right now on CSPAN.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Aren't you a Christian? And you're asking people why they believe in redemption?
is that a joke?

i still don't see it. sure byrd apologized. how is that enough?
he was a klan leader in his mid-twenties. he regrets it though seemingly for the wrong reasons, saying 'if you want to enter politics, avoid the KKK. it'll inhibit your operations in the political arena.'
he campaigned against the civil rights act of 64, he's the only senator to oppose the appointments of black men on the supreme court, in 2001 he said 'we talk about race too much, those problems are mostly behind us...there are white n*gg*rs, i've seen a lot of white n*gg*rs in my time...'
and i love this quote: 'i shall never fight in the armed forces with a negro by my side...i should die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in the dirt...than see this beloved land of ours degraded by race mongrels.' 8 years later, he was a congressman.
and he says he didnt change his views till the 80's when his grandson died and he realized that 'blacks love their children too'.

but this is ok because in 2003, the NAACP gave him a 100% on their congressional report card?
are you sure it's not because he has a 'D' beside his name?
maybe i'm way off, but i think if byrd was republican, his racial problems wouldn't be shrugged off because 'he apologized'.


edit: sorry to hijack the thread and talk about byrd, i just cant imagine anyone respecting the man. if you want to move it to another thread, go ahead.

[Midget Pirates]

maybe i'm way off, but i think if byrd was republican, his racial problems wouldn't be shrugged off because 'he apologized'.


you aren't way off.

[apoemtothedead]

My support of term limits is a bigger flip-flop than Romney. I guess my irritation--and that's the wrong word--my issue is with him staying in Congress long term and it being detrimental to the people he is representing.
Maybe I'm misreading your post, but how is Barney Frank (or anyone for that matter) staying in office for several terms detrimental to his constituents?

[saysmydoctor]

Maybe I'm misreading your post, but how is Barney Frank (or anyone for that matter) staying in office for several terms detrimental to his constituents?
I meant by him staying in long term in office when he couldn't best serve his constituents, mostly meant in Kennedy's case when his health stopped him from being able to do his job.

[apoemtothedead]

I meant by him staying in long term in office when he couldn't best serve his constituents, mostly meant in Kennedy's case when his health stopped him from being able to do his job.
I think it's pretty fair to say that the people of Massachusetts would rather have had an incapacitated Ted Kennedy in the senate seat rather than a republican. So even if he wasn't able to fully do his job, he was still serving the best interests of his constituents.

Stepping down would have been a different story but it's not like his vote really mattered at the time.

[saysmydoctor]

Do you really think a Republican has a chance of winning the Senate seat? Pipe dream indeed.

[J.C.]

is that a joke?

i still don't see it. sure byrd apologized. how is that enough?
he was a klan leader in his mid-twenties. he regrets it though seemingly for the wrong reasons, saying 'if you want to enter politics, avoid the KKK. it'll inhibit your operations in the political arena.'
he campaigned against the civil rights act of 64, he's the only senator to oppose the appointments of black men on the supreme court, in 2001 he said 'we talk about race too much, those problems are mostly behind us...there are white n*gg*rs, i've seen a lot of white n*gg*rs in my time...'
and i love this quote: 'i shall never fight in the armed forces with a negro by my side...i should die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in the dirt...than see this beloved land of ours degraded by race mongrels.' 8 years later, he was a congressman.
and he says he didnt change his views till the 80's when his grandson died and he realized that 'blacks love their children too'.

but this is ok because in 2003, the NAACP gave him a 100% on their congressional report card?
are you sure it's not because he has a 'D' beside his name?
maybe i'm way off, but i think if byrd was republican, his racial problems wouldn't be shrugged off because 'he apologized'.


edit: sorry to hijack the thread and talk about byrd, i just cant imagine anyone respecting the man. if you want to move it to another thread, go ahead.

I didn't realize that apologies, remorsefulness, and regret were nothing. What more are you asking of him?

I disagree that his past racial problems get shrugged off. Republicans never hesitate to bring it up, usually as a means of projecting their racial insecurities onto him. FWIW, we already had a contemporary Republican version of Byrd serve in the senate, the problem was Strom Thurmond had no interest in apologizing for his past actions and didn't display any remorse about them. The same went for Jesse Helms. And despite that, I think they were clearly more beloved and embraced by their party than Byrd was by Democrats.

[GeeBee]

I didn't realize that apologies, remorsefulness, and regret were nothing. What more are you asking of him?

I disagree that his past racial problems get shrugged off. Republicans never hesitate to bring it up, usually as a means of projecting their racial insecurities onto him. FWIW, we already had a contemporary Republican version of Byrd serve in the senate, the problem was Strom Thurmond had no interest in apologizing for his past actions and didn't display any remorse about them. The same went for Jesse Helms. And despite that, I think they were clearly more beloved and embraced by their party than Byrd was by Democrats.

Bottom line is, their voting constituency made their choice clear. I personally wouldn't have voted for him, even after all the apologies and regret in the world, but that's just me.

[zach]

....Says the guy with Michael Richards avatar.

[J.C.]

Bottom line is, their voting constituency made their choice clear. I personally wouldn't have voted for him, even after all the apologies and regret in the world, but that's just me.

And I would never put myself in the position where I'd be eligible to vote in West Virginia.

[GeeBee]

....Says the guy with Michael Richards avatar.
:-d Kramer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Richards.
And I would never put myself in the position where I'd be eligible to vote in West Virginia.
Ditto.

[zach]

:-d Kramer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Richards.

Ditto.

I'm really just bustin' your balls, but I do think it's kind of ironic that you wont let Robert Byrd off the hook after decades of appologizing and remorse, but Kramer gets off more or less scott free after making a few token apologies to Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

[GeeBee]

I'm really just bustin' your balls, but I do think it's kind of ironic that you wont let Robert Byrd off the hook after decades of appologizing and remorse, but Kramer gets off more or less scott free after making a few token apologies to Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

Haha, I know. But honestly, I don't give Michael Richards any sort of pass, either. Not to mention, he's a shitty comedian, and a pretty lousy actor. I simply love the character, not the actor.

That being said, I consider Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to be detrimental to their race.

[zach]

Being that I'm a thinking, rational person I considder Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to be two individual who's actions really have nothing to do with how I look at the billions of other black people.

[GeeBee]

Being that I'm a thinking, rational person I considder Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to be two individual who's actions really have nothing to do with how I look at the billions of other black people.

Which is exactly the opposite of how they apparently view themselves, which is the point I was making.

[zach]

Which is exactly the opposite of how they apparently view themselves, which is the point I was making.

When you put it that way I don't really see how I couldn't have taken away "Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are arrogant" from "They're detrimental to their race." That's totally the logical conclusion of said statement.

[GeeBee]

When you put it that way I don't really see how I couldn't have taken away "Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are arrogant" from "They're detrimental to their race." That's totally the logical conclusion of said statement.
Who made the implication, my friend?:

...Kramer gets off more or less scott free after making a few token apologies to Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

[zach]

I don't see how making a factual statement about events that actually happend implies that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are representatives for all black people. You really need to work on that whole "being logical" thing.

[GeeBee]

I don't see how making a factual statement about events that actually happend implies that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are representatives for all black people. You really need to work on that whole "being logical" thing.

Outstanding.

[zach]

Outstanding.

Not really. It's what actually happend. All you have to do is scroll up the page to confirm it for yourself.

[GeeBee]

Not really. It's what actually happend. All you have to do is scroll up the page to confirm it for yourself.

Sounds great.

[zach]

I'm just going to take a shot in the dark here, but I'm guessing that you're probably some white middle class highschool kid who was told they were smart once and really took it to heart and developed a bit of a sense of entitlement. If not you certainly behave like one. Not that it matters anyway, since you're apparently ignoring me.

[GeeBee]

I'm just going to take a shot in the dark here, but I'm guessing that you're probably some white middle class highschool kid who was told they were smart once and really took it to heart and developed a bit of a sense of entitlement. If not you certainly behave like one. Not that it matters anyway, since you're apparently ignoring me.

Good deal.

[zach]

Well you see the thing is, right now, I'm talking about you, and only you. I'm not saying "You're dumb because I read some random book." I'm saying "Based on your actions and yours alone, this is the conclusion I have drawn." The difference is like night and day.

You'll also notice I didn't frame it as irrefutable fact, because I understand the difference between opinons and assumptions, and well, irrefutable facts.

[Midget Pirates]

Henry Rollins take:

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2009/08/wheres-mary-jo-kopechnes-eulogy.html

Submerged. Not Far Under The Surface. Let’s say I am driving myself and a passenger in my car at night. I accidentally drive off a bridge into the water below. I am able to get out of the submerged vehicle but for some reason, I am unable to free the passenger. I gather two friends, a relative and my lawyer and return to the scene. We are unable to rescue the person trapped in the car. Several hours later, myself nor the two others I took to the site have called the authorities. In fact, it’s two fishermen who find the car the next morning as even then, no one has been called to the scene. The car is removed from the water and it is determined that its occupant is dead. This tragic incident is made international news by my circumstances. I am very well known, a United States senator. My family is incredibly powerful. There are allegations that I had been drinking heavily hours up to the time I got into the vehicle with the passenger. I deny this for the rest of my life. That at no point did I make an attempt to call for rescue would probably be considered by many people to be outrageous and horrible, perhaps a crime that would carry a prison sentence. Can you imagine what the parents of the deceased would be going through when they found out that their 28-year-old daughter died alone in total darkness? I serve no time. Not inconvenienced by the burdensome obstacle of incarceration, I seek to maintain my elected position. I am successful and remain a senator for the next four decades. Would any deed I performed in that time, besides going to prison for the negligent homicide I committed all those years ago, be enough to wipe the slate clean? After my passing, would you fail to mention the incident and the death of this innocent person in reviewing the events of my long and lauded life? You wouldn't forget about her, would you? That would be negligent.

[GeeBee]

Well you see the thing is, right now, I'm talking about you, and only you. I'm not saying "You're dumb because I read some random book." I'm saying "Based on your actions and yours alone, this is the conclusion I have drawn." The difference is like night and day.

You'll also notice I didn't frame it as irrefutable fact, because I understand the difference between opinons and assumptions, and well, irrefutable facts.

Sounds good.

[zach]

Sounds good.

If you you aren't, you know, actually intrested in discussing things why are you even here?

[zach]

Henry Rollins take:

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2009/08/wheres-mary-jo-kopechnes-eulogy.html

Submerged. Not Far Under The Surface. Let’s say I am driving myself and a passenger in my car at night. I accidentally drive off a bridge into the water below. I am able to get out of the submerged vehicle but for some reason, I am unable to free the passenger. I gather two friends, a relative and my lawyer and return to the scene. We are unable to rescue the person trapped in the car. Several hours later, myself nor the two others I took to the site have called the authorities. In fact, it’s two fishermen who find the car the next morning as even then, no one has been called to the scene. The car is removed from the water and it is determined that its occupant is dead. This tragic incident is made international news by my circumstances. I am very well known, a United States senator. My family is incredibly powerful. There are allegations that I had been drinking heavily hours up to the time I got into the vehicle with the passenger. I deny this for the rest of my life. That at no point did I make an attempt to call for rescue would probably be considered by many people to be outrageous and horrible, perhaps a crime that would carry a prison sentence. Can you imagine what the parents of the deceased would be going through when they found out that their 28-year-old daughter died alone in total darkness? I serve no time. Not inconvenienced by the burdensome obstacle of incarceration, I seek to maintain my elected position. I am successful and remain a senator for the next four decades. Would any deed I performed in that time, besides going to prison for the negligent homicide I committed all those years ago, be enough to wipe the slate clean? After my passing, would you fail to mention the incident and the death of this innocent person in reviewing the events of my long and lauded life? You wouldn't forget about her, would you? That would be negligent.

Except the incident and the death of said innocent person hase been mentioned ad nausea.......

[GeeBee]

If you you aren't, you know, actually intrested in discussing things why are you even here?

Excellent.

[zach]

It's no great wonder why the political discourse in your country has been reduced to name calling and hissy fits.

How about instead of carrying on like a passive agressive 12 year old, you act like a big boy and use some grown up talk?

[Codi23]

Sounds good.

If you you aren't, you know, actually intrested in discussing things why are you even here?

C'mon guys, is this really worth all this?

I'm in a peaceful mood today haha, and I'm still trying to figure out what you guys are even arguing about :shrug:. Everything doesn't have to be a debate all the time...

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

C'mon guys, is this really worth all this?

I'm in a peaceful mood today haha, and I'm still trying to figure out what you guys are even arguing about :shrug:. Everything doesn't have to be a debate all the time...
you have to read two threads at once to get the full effect. this is what they're arguing about:
geebee has an opinion.
zach doesn't like that opinion.
geebee says thats fine, think what you want
zach says lets fight.
come on, quit acting like a baby.
what are you? 12?
this is why you suck
fight me
do it you big baby
why can't you act like a grown up and fight like a man?
your mothers fat
i hate you
...
thats where we're at now.

[Jason Tate]

It's no great wonder why the political discourse in your country has been reduced to name calling and hissy fits.

How about instead of carrying on like a passive agressive 12 year old, you act like a big boy and use some grown up talk?
Hypocrite ... much?

[Codi23]

you have to read two threads at once to get the full effect. this is what they're arguing about:
geebee has an opinion.
zach doesn't like that opinion.
geebee says thats fine, think what you want
zach says lets fight.
come on, quit acting like a baby.
what are you? 12?
this is why you suck
fight me
do it you big baby
why can't you act like a grown up and fight like a man?
your mothers fat
i hate you
...
thats where we're at now.

Wow, good stuff. I was just watching Freaks and Geeks, and I was totally reminded of stupid high school arguments/drama all over again in this thread.

Take a breather, kids :-) .

[Jason Tate]

Henry Rollins take:

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2009/08/wheres-mary-jo-kopechnes-eulogy.html

Submerged. Not Far Under The Surface. Let’s say I am driving myself and a passenger in my car at night. I accidentally drive off a bridge into the water below. I am able to get out of the submerged vehicle but for some reason, I am unable to free the passenger. I gather two friends, a relative and my lawyer and return to the scene. We are unable to rescue the person trapped in the car. Several hours later, myself nor the two others I took to the site have called the authorities. In fact, it’s two fishermen who find the car the next morning as even then, no one has been called to the scene. The car is removed from the water and it is determined that its occupant is dead. This tragic incident is made international news by my circumstances. I am very well known, a United States senator. My family is incredibly powerful. There are allegations that I had been drinking heavily hours up to the time I got into the vehicle with the passenger. I deny this for the rest of my life. That at no point did I make an attempt to call for rescue would probably be considered by many people to be outrageous and horrible, perhaps a crime that would carry a prison sentence. Can you imagine what the parents of the deceased would be going through when they found out that their 28-year-old daughter died alone in total darkness? I serve no time. Not inconvenienced by the burdensome obstacle of incarceration, I seek to maintain my elected position. I am successful and remain a senator for the next four decades. Would any deed I performed in that time, besides going to prison for the negligent homicide I committed all those years ago, be enough to wipe the slate clean? After my passing, would you fail to mention the incident and the death of this innocent person in reviewing the events of my long and lauded life? You wouldn't forget about her, would you? That would be negligent.
Henry Rollins is a moron.

[GeeBee]

you have to read two threads at once to get the full effect. this is what they're arguing about:
geebee has an opinion.
zach doesn't like that opinion.
geebee says thats fine, think what you want
zach says lets fight.
come on, quit acting like a baby.
what are you? 12?
this is why you suck
fight me
do it you big baby
why can't you act like a grown up and fight like a man?
your mothers fat
i hate you
...
thats where we're at now.
Funny...that's precisely how it looked to me, as well.

[GeeBee]

Henry Rollins is a moron.

Backed.

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Funny...that's precisely how it looked to me, as well.
prove it!

[GeeBee]

prove it!
:-d

[zach]

Hypocrite ... much?

Uhm no because you'll notice I'm taking the time to actually explain things and I'm being pretty direct with my disdain.

[Jason Tate]

Uhm no because you'll notice I'm taking the time to actually explain things and I'm being pretty direct with my disdain.
Hahahaha. Oh bud. When you say "political discourse in your country has been reduced to name calling and hissy fits." And then throw a hissy fit and name call ... you're a hypocrite. I don't care what your stance on anything is at that point.

[zach]

you have to read two threads at once to get the full effect. this is what they're arguing about:
geebee has an opinion.
zach doesn't like that opinion.
geebee says thats fine, think what you want
zach says lets fight.
come on, quit acting like a baby.
what are you? 12?
this is why you suck
fight me
do it you big baby
why can't you act like a grown up and fight like a man?
your mothers fat
i hate you
...
thats where we're at now.
Revisonist much? The whole thread is there. I quite clearly state an opinion and he counters with what can essentially be reduced to "You're wrong because I said so." This whole argument is because I explained the difference between opinion and fact and he didn't like it.

[Codi23]

:yawn:

[zach]

Hahahaha. Oh bud. When you say "political discourse in your country has been reduced to name calling and hissy fits." And then throw a hissy fit and name call ... you're a hypocrite. I don't care what your stance on anything is at that point.

I'm sure that you'll understand apreciate that when you're dealing with people who behave like children, you generally should deal with them on a level they understand. I've never claimed to be the bigger person, just the more logical one.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

:tumbleweed:

[SLOWPOKE LOPEZ]

Revisonist much? The whole thread is there. I quite clearly state an opinion and he counters with what can essentially be reduced to "You're wrong because I said so." This whole argument is because I explained the difference between opinion and fact and he didn't like it.
you see the difference between me and you is, i don't care.
if i think you're an idiot, i'm going to call you an idiot, whether that weakens my stance on an issue, whether that reduces my arguement to ad hominem..i really don't give a flying fuck.
so i'm just going to throw this out there...even if you ARE right, and i'm not even sure what exactly you're trying to prove anyway, but even if you ARE right, you're still a little bitch. thats just my opinion. don't ask me to 'prove it'. its just an assertion, it needs no proof.

[zach]

That's just like, your opinion, man.

[lauren<3s music]

I'll just fake a southern accent so no questions will be raised.

Done and Done.

I'm not denigrating Kennedy or Byrd's service at all and have nothing but the utmost respect for the two of them, I do think there is a point when a bit of personal responsibility comes into play. I'm not questioning either's grasp on the issues, I know full well that especially Kennedy is probably one of the most brilliant minds of our day. Maybe this stems from my personal support of term limitations, but he knew his health was declining. He pushed to change the law in Massachusetts because of it, he knew his days were numbered. If he knew he may not survive his full term, if he really cared about ensuring that Massachusetts had both Senators in Washington, he wouldn't have sought reelection. That's my personal opinion on the matter.

The sense of entitlement remark, I'll recant that because I probably crossed the line there a bit, but I'm not entirely off. I said the same of Rehnquist, I'd say the same of any senator/representative on either side of the aisle. There comes a point that you need to recognize your time in Congress is done. I feel Kennedy was irresponsible in that sense. I'm sorry. :shrug:

With that being said, looks like a special election in January.

Should Barney Frank run?

Kennedy was very with it for a long time and his staff had marching orders, just like any other staff. Between the other Senators and his principles and his entire team of brilliant people, MA and the country were still better off.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/08/barney_frank_says_he_will_not.html
Frank said no, so no need to even debate that.

Capuano should get it. I like him, he's firm, he tells you like it is, knows the game and was a former lobbyist.

[Machu505]

And I would never put myself in the position where I'd be eligible to vote in West Virginia.

:-d Kramer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Richards.

Ditto.
Hey fuck you guys haha.

[Jason Tate]

Let's play a game: how long before his death becomes politicized by the Democrats? I give it about a week.
It's already been politicized by both sides. You lose.

[lauren<3s music]

It's already been politicized by both sides. You lose.
Externally, yes. In DC no one is daring to. It's bad form.

[saysmydoctor]

Kennedy was very with it for a long time and his staff had marching orders, just like any other staff. Between the other Senators and his principles and his entire team of brilliant people, MA and the country were still better off.
I disagree. He is dead. MA has one less voice in the Senate. He was irresponsible. He should have retired. His seat wasn't a huge risk.
It's already been politicized by both sides. You lose.
Yeah. No shocker.

[lauren<3s music]

I disagree. He is dead. MA has one less voice in the Senate. He was irresponsible. He should have retired. His seat wasn't a huge risk.

Yeah. No shocker.
Yes because the Senate is going to vote on health care reform tomorrow. That is the only place where his vote would be needed and we all know that it is no where near close. He had a right, just like every other Member of Congress to serve their term until their done - election, scandal, death or otherwise.

[saysmydoctor]

Yes because the Senate is going to vote on health care reform tomorrow. That is the only place where his vote would be needed and we all know that it is no where near close. He had a right, just like every other Member of Congress to serve their term until their done - election, scandal, death or otherwise.
That's not the point and you know it. It is his right. Doesn't mean he should have taken advantage of it. It was irresponsible.

[lauren<3s music]

That's not the point and you know it. It is his right. Doesn't mean he should have taken advantage of it. It was irresponsible.
how was he taking advantage of it? if you think that Members of Congress are the reason work gets done on the Hill you are sorely mistaken.

[saysmydoctor]

how was he taking advantage of it? if you think that Members of Congress are the reason work gets done on the Hill you are sorely mistaken.
That's not even remotely the point.

[lauren<3s music]

That's not even remotely the point.
him resigning wouldn't get a new Senator any quicker.

[saysmydoctor]

him resigning wouldn't get a new Senator any quicker.
Well, if he had just retired at the end of the previous term, this problem would be a lot less likely.

[joeag1985]

RIP Teddy.

edit: RIP Eunice. It's as good a place as any to mention it. An amazing lady.

[GeeBee]

That's just like, your opinion, man.

Sounds good.

[wrppdarndyrfngr]

just found this quote which ecapsolates my feelings very well :

I am an American and a Catholic; I love my country and treasure my faith. But I do not assume that my conception of patriotism or policy is invariably correct, or that my convictions about religion should command any greater respect than any other faith in this pluralistic society. I believe there surely is such a thing as truth, but who among us can claim a monopoly on it?

Edward M. Kennedy
Faith, Truth and Tolerance in America
delivered 3 October 1983, Liberty University

Full Speech (http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/tedkennedytruth&tolerance.htm)

[GeeBee]

just found this quote which ecapsolates my feelings very well :



Edward M. Kennedy
Faith, Truth and Tolerance in America
delivered 3 October 1983, Liberty University

Full Speech (http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/tedkennedytruth&tolerance.htm)

Ted Kennedy's religion speech >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mitt Romney's feeble attempt.

[saysmydoctor]

He is an amazing orator. He really was America's senator, no denying that, a staunch, unabashed liberal. Far braver than anyone else in the Senate.

[GeeBee]

Truth.

[lauren<3s music]

Well, if he had just retired at the end of the previous term, this problem would be a lot less likely.
no need to retire at the last term. He was amazing then, just as he was until the end. He was one of the most brilliant minds this country will ever have and honestly I think we were all lucky to see what he accomplished just in our time. It sounds like crap, but he is such an inspiration - he always aimed for more than what anyone thought is possible to help those who couldn't help themselves and in my humble opinion that is what makes a good politician, better public servant and a great human being. And now I'm sad again.

[loveisdead]

Well those two speeches made me cry.

[saysmydoctor]

no need to retire at the last term. He was amazing then, just as he was until the end. He was one of the most brilliant minds this country will ever have and honestly I think we were all lucky to see what he accomplished just in our time. It sounds like crap, but he is such an inspiration - he always aimed for more than what anyone thought is possible to help those who couldn't help themselves and in my humble opinion that is what makes a good politician, better public servant and a great human being. And now I'm sad again.
No one is denying whether he is amazing, you are looking at this with some emotional attachment. I understand what Kennedy meant. That's not the point.

[starshine1763]

The residents of MA may currently be in a bit of a difficult spot because Kennedy didn't resign, but I would be very surprised if the majority of MA residents would have been okay with Kennedy resigning. I mean, were he to do so because he was too exhausted they would've understood, but were he to do so because he thought his constituents desired it, they wouldn't have accepted that.

He was an effective and empathetic Senator to the very end. His role to play in the Senate was one that took him to his last breath, but don't doubt for a moment that he was still advocating for his constituents until the day he died.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/08/27/a_man_who_knew_pain_eased_it_in_oth ers/

There was no use arguing.

It was Aug. 18, 2008. The senator read in the paper that two servicemen from Mashpee had died in Iraq and Afghanistan. He knew their grieving families would be together that afternoon, gathering for sandwiches and fortitude before a candlelight service at Mashpee’s veterans memorial.

It didn’t matter that he was in the middle of yet another chemotherapy treatment at Massachusetts General Hospital. It didn’t matter that he was clearly exhausted. It didn’t matter that people would understand if he couldn’t make it. He wanted to be with them.

“When you think it’s the moment not to call, that’s the moment to call,’’ he always told his aides. “The sooner, the better.’’ He wanted the relatives to know he was there if they needed him and to tell them he had lived their pain.

Others didn’t think the visit was such a good idea, but that didn’t matter to Ted Kennedy. As his hours of treatment ended, he declared: “We’re going down there.’’

So he stopped off in Hyannis Port to freshen up, an aide recalled. He put on a blazer and dress slacks and headed right back out.

By the time he arrived, the house was filled with relatives of Paul Conlon, a soldier killed in Afghanistan on Aug. 15, and Daniel McGuire, a Marine killed Aug. 14 in Iraq. Kennedy hugged every one of them. He charmed the kids. He petted the dogs.


He leafed slowly through a photo album, asking Maria Conlon to tell him about her son. What was his nickname? Did he get into college? How did she feel about him going into the military?

His nickname was PJ. He’d gotten a scholarship to Franklin Pierce University in New Hampshire. She supported his enlistment because it was what he had always wanted.

She told Kennedy that she had taken Paul to the compound in Hyannis Port to watch fireworks 18 years ago, when he was 3. The senator seemed to like that. She told him about the time her son, at 16, put a hole in the ceiling jumping on the bed because he “wanted to feel like a kid again.’’ That gave Kennedy a good laugh.

The ailing senator was in no hurry to leave. He had words of comfort for every person in the house that afternoon.

“It gave me great admiration for him,’’ Maria Conlon said, “that somebody going through such a hard time with his own life, and for everything he’s suffered in the past, and still, he took the time to go to the family’s house, to sit there, not for five minutes, but for hours.’’

He wanted to attend the candlelight service, he told the families, but it was best for him to stay away.

“If I go, I’ll be in the spotlight,’’ Vicky Baron, Paul’s aunt, recalled him saying. “I don’t want to take away from what these young men did and what they gave up.’’

And so the senator hugged the grieving families goodbye and left the house, unseen.

[lauren<3s music]

No one is denying whether he is amazing, you are looking at this with some emotional attachment. I understand what Kennedy meant. That's not the point.

I can't help it I always really loved him.