NHL Rookie of the Year?

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

Staff members (Caleb, Drew, Jason Tate, Weber) please don't delete this.

This one's for you, tylerdurden####.

NHL Fans, vote.

Who's the rookie of the year, Alexander Ovechkin, or Sidney Crosby?

Ovechkin: 50 goals, 52 assists, 102 points, +2, 52 penalty minutes, 21 power play goals, 29 power play assists, 3 short handed goals.

- Ovechkin has almost twice as many points (102 to 55), goals (50 to 23) and assists (52 to 32) as the 2nd player in each category on the Capitals

Crosby: 38 goals, 59 assists, 97 points, -3, 104 penalty minutes, 16 power play goals, 29 power play assists, 0 short handed goals.

[Dirty Ernie]

jeff carter



no but really ovechkin brings the whole package

[aminorthreat55]

It's a crime if Ovechkin doesn't win.

[dont you move]

parise


or maybe ovechkin

[LeftWideOpen]

i told you i'd be the only one supporting Crosby!

*sigh*

gee you seem like an objective fan of the game too, judging by the sig.

[Broken Parachute]

Ovechkin. It's not even a contest..Crosby is amazing, but Ovechkin has it all. He's the only guy I know who plays so finnesse yet hits so hard.

[LeftWideOpen]

i live in D.C.

bitch.

i didnt know living in d.c stripped you of all biases?

Ovechkin is the clear choice here ..he's having one of the best rookie seasons in NHL history. Anyone who thinks Crosby deserves it more is clearly not looking at this from an objective viewpoint.

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8668486982679575521&q=ovechkin&pl=true

I've seen Ovechkin play 3 times (3 of 4 Sabres-Caps games were on TV) and I wasn't THAT impressed.

Then I watched that video. And that cemented his place, in my mind, as ROTY. The kid's game is crazy. He hits big, has filthy dekes, and LOVES the game.

[Darren McLeod]

Ovechkin, easily. Ovechkin has the whole package in an NHL player... not only does he have some of the softest hands I've ever seen in a rookie, the kid is able to throw his weight around, and his penalty minutes aren't coming from his poor attitude (like Crosby). I had high hopes for Sid, and while he didn't manage to meet them, Ovechkin proved to be far better than I thought he would be.

[LeftWideOpen]

wow, so is Crosby! so Crosby has a few more penalty minutes...i just think he works harder than Ovechkin and unfortunatley doesn't have the finesse that Ovechkin has to make everything look so damn good.

boo ya i Crosby got a second vote!

he also doesnt have as many points or goals. i don't care who looks like they work harder (which is absolute bullshit by the way), the numbers speak for themselves.

[Broken Parachute]

wow, so is Crosby! so Crosby has a few more penalty minutes...i just think he works harder than Ovechkin and unfortunatley doesn't have the finesse that Ovechkin has to make everything look so damn good.

boo ya Crosby got a second vote!

Even though Pittsburgh is the worst team in the league..do you realize that Crosby learned to play better and had many scoring threats to pass to? He had/has Recchi, Lemiuex, Gonchar, Leclair, etc. to learn from and play with. Ovechkin has NOBODY..Dainus Zubrus? I mean it's just him, alone, playing fantastic. Crosby has a supporting cast (even if they don't play well). When you have that many scoring threats it's easy to have 59 Assists. Ovechkin has not only 52 assists but 50 goals on a team with really nobody to be afraid of.

[LeftWideOpen]

oh, ovechkin totally deserves it then, since he has a ton of points over Crosby. a whole FIVE.

your case is weak though, cant you see that? your whole case is "he looks like he works harder!"

he has worse numbers and more to work with ...why on earth should someone vote for him unless they are bias?

[Broken Parachute]

oh, ovechkin totally deserves it then, since he has a ton of points over Crosby. a whole FIVE.
5 points is 5 points. Crosby has a bad attitude too..even though that has no bearing on the Calder, Crosby: 104 Penalty Minutes, Ovechkin: 52 Penalty minutes. I would think they look at that even a little bit.

[kg00d]

Ovechkin

you should have added phaneuf because I think he'd win the calder if it was between him and crosby

and yes i like jeff carter and mike richards a lot. the future of the flyers.

[kg00d]

since i prefer Crosby over Ovechkin i'm now biased? i believed it's called an "opinion."

I'm never a dick to anyone on these boards but you don't know anything about hockey if you think Crosby deserves it over ovechkin. I can go on forever on why ovechkin is better but the fact of the matter is your knowledge of hockey is bad

and hey i like crosby (hes the future of canada hockey) but fact of the matter is ovechkin is better, enough said.

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

Ovechkin

you should have added phaneuf because I think he'd win the calder if it was between him and crosby

and yes i like jeff carter and mike richards a lot. the future of the flyers.
I was tempted to add Phaneuf, because I like him too, but because this was an Ovechkin vs. Crosby argument between myself and tylerdurden, I made it a 2 person race in the poll.

[kg00d]

I was tempted to add Phaneuf, because I like him too, but because this was an Ovechkin vs. Crosby argument between myself and tylerdurden, I made it a 2 person race in the poll.

Understandable, read my post above regarding this guy all over crosby, he doesnt really wanna get me started.

[Broken Parachute]

Ovechkin

you should have added phaneuf because I think he'd win the calder if it was between him and crosby

and yes i like jeff carter and mike richards a lot. the future of the flyers.
There are some great rookies this year..Alex Ovechkin, Sidney Crosby, Jeff Carter, Petr Prucha, Henrik Lundqvist, Dion Phaneuf, Marek Svatos, Ryan Miller, Antero Nittymaki, Marc-Andre Fleury, Ray Emery, etc..the list goes on and on of all the good rookies this year and going to be good in the future.

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

Understandable, read my post above regarding this guy all over crosby, he doesnt really wanna get me started.
haha take him on. I'm off to work, I'll be back to entertain everyone around 10:30.

[LeftWideOpen]

since i prefer Crosby over Ovechkin i'm now biased? i believed it's called an "opinion."

if what you thought actually mattered and you had a real vote ...you'd certainly be bias. Your allowed to have an opinion, just admit it's a stupid one that makes no sense and we'll be on the same page.

seriously though, what is your case for Crosby? 'Cause you think he works harder doesnt count ..this is sports. Numbers are what matter. You don't hear me saying the Bruins are the best team because they "play hard". Show me how Crosby's overall numbers trump Ovechkin's.

[Broken Parachute]

Fleury isn't a rookie.

Then you must really not know nothing about hockey because NHL.com has him listed as a rookie..unless they're wrong..they ARE only the NHL.

[LeftWideOpen]

...things were looking up around here after asianxcore got the boot, too. now we have this to deal with.

[kg00d]

haha, wow, so because of one little thing i know nothing about hockey? fuck off.

Maybe I went a little too far with that statement but c'mon man i like crosby like i said and prior to thsi season i thought he would be the better one but im realistic and ovechkin is just better

in 5 years or so i think i may rather have crosby on my team is that team already had a few good superstar players because im sure his leadership would be great asset especially in the playoffs but if you want to talk about if i just had to pick 1 for my team i'd have to take him.

[kg00d]

Fleury isn't a rookie.

actually you're wrong. he is. He only played 21 games in 2003-2004 which still makes him a rookie. You need to play over 27 or 28 games in a season to be classified as a rookie.

[kg00d]

do you really think the judges are going to be like, "oh, he has one more point, he gets the award automatically." no.

obviously not, heck even if crosby had 10 more points ovechkin would still take it because he has been more of an MVP for his team than crosby has been and overall he is a much better player when you go away from looking at points.

[kg00d]

his rookie season was 03-04.Drafted: Year: 2003 Round: 1 Pick: 1, Penguins

rofl rofl wrong, read my post above.

[Broken Parachute]

the only reason my opinion is "stupid" to you is because i don't share the same one as you. i love you people who just automatically start throwing insults at someone who doesn't feel the same way about things as you do.

and numbers aren't the only things that matter, don't give me that shit. if it comes down to ovechkin having one more point at the end of the season, do you really think the judges are going to be like, "oh, he has one more point, he gets the award automatically." no.

No but they'll look and see how Crosby yells at refs because he doesn't think it was a hook or a trip or something stupid. He has a shit attitude and it shows. He's 18 and he gets an A on his chest..shit, Ovechkin is on a team with absolute shit players and he won't get the C for another 3 years probably. I'm sure it's going to go to Crosby's head eventually.

[LeftWideOpen]

the only reason my opinion is "stupid" to you is because i don't share the same one as you. i love you people who just automatically start throwing insults at someone who doesn't feel the same way about things as you do.

and numbers aren't the only things that matter, don't give me that shit. if it comes down to ovechkin having one more point at the end of the season, do you really think the judges are going to be like, "oh, he has one more point, he gets the award automatically." no.

you still haven't made a case for crosby besides that you think "he plays harder".

please, give yourself something to work with ..tell me why crosby deserves the award besides the fact that you like him more. Try and include stats too, because they go a long way in determining awards.

[Broken Parachute]

he's only five points behind ovechkin! it's not like he's trailing by 20 or more or anything. and frankly, the only stat i see that's a negative is the penalty minutes, but he's only 18 so that's expected. he's the youngest player to reach 90 points in a season and he's going to be the youngest player to reach 100 points in a season.
So have 104 penalty minutes at 18 is okay compared to having only 52 and being 20..because of age? Two years difference makes that big of a change in penalty minutes?

[LeftWideOpen]

he's only five points behind ovechkin! it's not like he's trailing by 20 or more or anything. and frankly, the only stat i see that's a negative is the penalty minutes, but he's only 18 so that's expected. he's the youngest player to reach 90 points in a season and he's going to be the youngest player to reach 100 points in a season.

so, he deserves the award despite being behind in just about every statistical category because he's younger? He also isnt at 100 points yet, so dont count your eggs before they hatch. 3 points in 3 games is no guarantee.

so tylerdurden chooses crosby because he's 18 and he thinks he plays harder. okay ..we got that settled.

[LeftWideOpen]

he needed 7 points in 4 games...he got 4 points last night.

i think he can pull it off...no wait, i know he'll pull it off.

and yes, i believe age has something to do with it. the kid is younger than i am, and i can understand him not getting his emotions totally under control during games and i can also understand just what a huge achievement this is for someone his age.

you don't see an 18 year old score that many points during every season, do you?

ovechkin is 20! he cant even have a legal drink ...you act like he's in line for his AARP card.

you understand your case is weak when compared to ovechkins right? because opinions are one thing and delusions are another.

[kg00d]

wow, if you get that much enjoyment out of something as simple as my statement, do you shit yourself when watching a comedy?

i just find it funny that you think crosby is better haha

crosby is an excellent player but ovechkin = better.

[Broken Parachute]

You honestly believes he's better because he's only 18? Since when is Ovechkin like a grandfather..he's only 20!

[Broken Parachute]

and you act as if Crosby is such a horrible player compared to Ovechkin. Other than the penalty mintues, theire point totals are almost identical, with the exception of Ovechkin having more goals and Crosby having more assists.

and as someone said earlier, they weren't impressed with watching Ovechkin during a game, but once they saw all of his highlights, that changed their mind. but the point is, those are highlights, you're only seeing the best of the best...if you're not impressed with him during a game, what does that tell you?

Caps are still better than the Pens..that counts for something.

[LeftWideOpen]

and you act as if Crosby is such a horrible player compared to Ovechkin. Other than the penalty mintues, theire point totals are almost identical, with the exception of Ovechkin having more goals and Crosby having more assists.

and as someone said earlier, they weren't impressed with watching Ovechkin during a game, but once they saw all of his highlights, that changed their mind. but the point is, those are highlights, you're only seeing the best of the best...if you're not impressed with him during a game, what does that tell you?

you are making so many exceptions though for crosby to win this ...

"other than ..."
"almost identical .."
"with the exception ..."

why does crosby deserve all these? Less points, worse team besides more to work with, more penalty minutes ....he's behind Ovechkin, plain and simple. Why does he deserve all these exceptions? Age doesnt matter because they are BOTH rookies. This isnt an MVP race, its *Rookie of the Year* ...that means this is the first full season in NHL for BOTH of them.

[Broken Parachute]

do you really think the judges are going to overlook the fact that Crosby is the youngest player in the NHL to break all these records?
Do you really think that the judges are going to overlook Ovechkin as being a 50 goal scorer at age 20?

[LeftWideOpen]

do you really think the judges are going to overlook the fact that Crosby is the youngest player in the NHL to break all these records?

..this is how sure i am of ovechkin winning.

i dont even care about as much about hockey as i do about proving you wrong here. so i offer you a bet ... i'm willing to put my 3,500+ posts that have come in the sports forum on the line ..

if ovechkin wins, you never post in this sports forum again.
if crosby wins, i'll never post in this forum again.

deal?

[Broken Parachute]

you really care that much about what i think? you need a life, dear sir.

and to be honest, if i made the bet with you and lost, i know i'd break it and end up posting (unless you cried to mods saying "He made a bet, ban him!")

besides, no one's dumb enough to bet away their freedom.

but let me say this: if Ovechkin wins, the next time i post here, i'll take all the shit i deserve from you guys with no argument...but if Crosby wins, expect me to through it in your faces for a day or two, k?

I like your bet better.

LeftWideOpen, you put some great discussion into this forum, I wouldn't bet my account over this.

[LeftWideOpen]

you really care that much about what i think? you need a life, dear sir.

and to be honest, if i made the bet with you and lost, i know i'd break it and end up posting (unless you cried to mods saying "He made a bet, ban him!")

besides, no one's dumb enough to bet away their freedom.

but let me say this: if Ovechkin wins, the next time i post here, i'll take all the shit i deserve from you guys with no argument...but if Crosby wins, expect me to through it in your faces for a day or two, k?

i care about there being intelligent sports discussion in this forum. i know ovechkin will win because it's fairly obvious and i'm willing to put my ap account on the line for it. clearly, you have some doubts about crosby because you arent willing to do the same.

mostly though i'd just be doing the other people on here a favor by winning this bet.

[LeftWideOpen]

I like your bet better.

LeftWideOpen, you put some great discussion into this forum, I wouldn't bet my account over this.

thanks heartshapedox ...i feel as though this is a bet i wouldn't lose though, so thats why im offering it haha.

[Groogz]

In terms of goalies I think that Lundqvist is the best rookie goaltender (but obviously that's not what we're talking about here, I just wanted to get that out there, haha). Clearly the rookie of the year award has to go to Alexander Ovechkin. It doesn't matter if Crosby is only 18 and could be the youngest player to reach 100 points in a season. Ovechkin is only 20 years old and has already passed 100 points in a season. He's the second rookie EVER to score 50 goals and 100 points in their rookie season (the other was Teemu Selanne back in 92-93). Ovechkin's statisics and overall hockey skills are fucking sick. You can't overlook that. Props to Crosby still. Any other year and he'd be rookie of the year almost guaranteed. Sucks for him that he had to be a rookie this year.

[LeftWideOpen]

In terms of goalies I think that Lundqvist is the best rookie goaltender (but obviously that's not what we're talking about here, I just wanted to get that out there, haha). Clearly the rookie of the year award has to go to Alexander Ovechkin. It doesn't matter if Crosby is only 18 and could be the youngest player to reach 100 points in a season. Ovechkin is only 20 years old and has already passed 100 points in a season. He's the second rookie EVER to score 50 goals and 100 points in their rookie season (the other was Teemu Selanne back in 92-93). Ovechkin's statisics and overall hockey skills are fucking sick. You can't overlook that. Props to Crosby still. Any other year and he'd be rookie of the year almost guaranteed. Sucks for him that he had to be a rookie this year.

i know. this isnt meant to be a knock on crosby ...he's going to be a star. he didnt have a better year than ovechkin did though and thats the issue here.

[Groogz]

actually you're wrong. he is. He only played 21 games in 2003-2004 which still makes him a rookie. You need to play over 27 or 28 games in a season to be classified as a rookie.
I always felt that this number was a bit high but whatever. Fleury is still technically a rookie then.

[LeftWideOpen]

oh yes, as i said before, because of my one opinion on Crosby, i offer no intelligence to anything else. seriously, i think tuesday when i go to classes, i'll stop by the register's office and let them know that i'm dropping out of college because i'm a complete moron. and when they ask why i'll tell them, "Oh, just because I think Crosby is going to win the Calder, and that obviously means i don't deserve to live."

so in other words, i think you're the biggest asshole i've ever had the pleasure of conversing with, quite possibly even bigger than Slade. and if you can't get over this one little opinion that i have, then you have a problem.

bro, you are taking this way too personally. go ask your roommate for a hug or somethin. i didnt say you don't deserve to live, lol.

this is a forum for sports discussion . you havent given me a straight answer yet when i've asked you to state your case for crosby and why his numbers are better than ovechkin's. this isnt the general forum where people say whatever they want and it goes unnoticed. bring something to the table or people are gonna take you on ...that's the beauty of discussing sports.

[Broken Parachute]

I always felt that this number was a bit high but whatever. Fleury is still technically a rookie then.

Yeah I would take like an 18 year old play him 20 games one season, 20 the next, then let him get on the ice full time when he's 20 and he'll have basically all the knowledge he needs to know by playing 40 games hahaha. Nobody does that though. Look at the Rangers, they're brought up Jarkko Immonen for the last 10 games and they're bringing up Marc Staal for the last 4..now they can play next year with at least some experience (and Immonen has 2 goals already).

[kg00d]

I always felt that this number was a bit high but whatever. Fleury is still technically a rookie then.

Well if it is it's not much higher than I said it was because in 2002-2003 Spezza was up and down from the AHL all season (stupid on jacques martin imo) and he played 33 games in the NHL that year and had 21 points. If he had of played all 82 games that year he surely would have won the Calder. He was considered a rookie that year, unfortunately for this part.

The following season he got 78 games in and did really good considering he got no ice time and imo he would have won the calder in 2003-2004 if he was considered a rookie but he wasn't a rookie that year due to the amount of games he played in the previous season.

[LeftWideOpen]

i have stated why i think he deserves to win countless times. go back and read the parts where i say such things as "he's only five behind" and "extremely close in every category (except for penaly minutes)" ...i never said his numbers were better.

and i'm taking it personally? you've been attacking me from the start, with comments about being stupid, no intelligence, and whatnot. when i came here, i expected a civil conversation, which a few of you have been able to do.

but all you've done is try to convince me that i'm wrong, and when i wouldn't change my opinion, you resorted to insulting me. very nice.

well i apologize for calling your opinion stupid, i guess a better choice of words would have been "illogical".

[LeftWideOpen]

so is it alright that i'm stubborn and will still support Crosby until the awards are announced?

and i stand by my word, if he looses, i'll take whatever shit you guys think i deserve.

yes it's alright ..but it's also alright for people to call you out if they disagree and thats what people did. thats why we have discussion here and just not statements.

[Broken Parachute]

so is it alright that i'm stubborn and will still support Crosby until the awards are announced?

and i stand by my word, if he looses, i'll take whatever shit you guys think i deserve.

If he does lose I won't trash you..I'll just say "Told ya so." That's all. I'm sure LeftWideOpen is going to want to say a few words though. Hahaha ;)

[LeftWideOpen]

If he does lose I won't trash you..I'll just say "Told ya so." That's all. I'm sure LeftWideOpen is going to want to say a few words though. Hahaha ;)

lol naw, i won't. i enjoy the argument beforehand more than the satisfaction of being right.

hockey is only like my 4th favorite sport to follow and i'm arguing this like i live and breath the game haha.

[Brownpants06]

Ovechkin. But, Crosby will be the better player in the long run. Gretzky never won the calder either. Ovechkin is a routine sniper. My favourite rookie this year was Phaneuf, that kid has got some serious talent. One of my favourite defenceman who can score, pass, and hit.

[kg00d]

Ovechkin. But, Crosby will be the better player in the long run. Gretzky never won the calder either. Ovechkin is a routine sniper. My favourite rookie this year was Phaneuf, that kid has got some serious talent. One of my favourite defenceman who can score, pass, and hit.

Hes my favourite player :)

[Groogz]

Ovechkin. But, Crosby will be the better player in the long run. Gretzky never won the calder either. Ovechkin is a routine sniper. My favourite rookie this year was Phaneuf, that kid has got some serious talent. One of my favourite defenceman who can score, pass, and hit.
I'm too lazy to look around the web for this, who got the Calder trophy in Gretzky's rookie season?

[Groogz]

i have stated why i think he deserves to win countless times. go back and read the parts where i say such things as "he's only five behind" and "extremely close in every category (except for penaly minutes)" ...i never said his numbers were better.
Not trying to start up another argument here or restart the previous argument but in all fairness your statements didn't really state why you think Crosby should win the Calder trophy. You really only stated reasons why he could be in contention for the Calder. You didn't really state why you feel Crosby is better than Ovechkin. You only tried to shut down other peoples' statements about why they feel Ovechkin is better than Crosby. Give us some real facts and reasons why you feel Crosby is better than Ovechkin and therefore should win the Calder.

[Brownpants06]

I'm too lazy to look around the web for this, who got the Calder trophy in Gretzky's rookie season?


He wasen't eligable because he played with the Oilers before they joined the NHL. Counted it as professional experience. Ray Bourque got it that year I think.

[Groogz]

He wasen't eligable because he played with the Oilers before they joined the NHL. Counted it as professional experience. Ray Bourque got it that year I think.
Ah alright. Tough luck for Gretzky. If it was Bourque then it was still somebody quite deserving then.

[hockey0001]

Ovechkin, easily. Ovechkin has the whole package in an NHL player... not only does he have some of the softest hands I've ever seen in a rookie, the kid is able to throw his weight around, and his penalty minutes aren't coming from his poor attitude (like Crosby). I had high hopes for Sid, and while he didn't manage to meet them, Ovechkin proved to be far better than I thought he would be.

You must have had insanely high hopes for him. 38 goals, 59 assists, and 97 points is a great season for anybody, especially a rookie. Crosby still had a tremendous season, but it was over shadowed by Ovechkins season (which was unbelievable).

[kg00d]

You must have had insanely high hopes for him. 38 goals, 59 assists, and 97 points is a great season for anybody, especially a rookie. Crosby still had a tremendous season, but it was over shadowed by Ovechkins season (which was unbelievable).

Ya I agree

Crosby is amazing there is no doubting that.

[histrionics22]

Ya I agree

Crosby is amazing there is no doubting that.
Yea, I don't know how anyone can say he didn't live up to expectations. It's ridiculous. I am a huge Crosby supporter.With that being said Ovechkin will win the Calder. As much as I'm rooting for Crosby, Ovechkin has had a great year and all his highlight goals will no doubt prevail.The argument Sidney had more to work with is over. He's playing on a line right now with Colby Armstrong and Andy Hilbert and still putting up 2,3 points per game. I could understand people saying that early in the year, but not anymore.Ovechkin is better right now, but take a look down the road 5 years from now. The Pens will be in much better shape than the Caps. Crosby makes everyone around him better. Ovechkin doesn't as much as Crosby. Look at Armstrong's numbers since he's been put on Crosby's line. It's also ridiculous how bad a rep Crosby has, and how undeserving of it he is. The guys is a competitor and wants to win every game, even is his team is in last place by a lot. How can you fault him for that?

[Broken Parachute]

If Crosby had a better attitude people would like him more. When Ovechkin scores a goal he acts like he just won the Stanley cup. Caps are WAYYY out of the playoffs yet when he scores a goal he dances and pumps his arms like crazy..plus he never complains about penalties. Crosby complains about everything and it sucks because I really like Crosby as a player. Jagr does the same thing..he makes an obvious penalty then complains about it.

I went to the Pens/Rangers this year and Crosby skated right by Lundqvist around the back of the net and clipped him on his skates. Lundqvist went down hard and they gave Crosby a penalty..Crosby started yelling at the refs like he did nothing wrong and then shoved Lundqvist out of the way when he came over to see what the call was and a mini scuffle took place.

[histrionics22]

If Crosby had a better attitude people would like him more. When Ovechkin scores a goal he acts like he just won the Stanley cup. Caps are WAYYY out of the playoffs yet when he scores a goal he dances and pumps his arms like crazy..plus he never complains about penalties. Crosby complains about everything and it sucks because I really like Crosby as a player. Jagr does the same thing..he makes an obvious penalty then complains about it.

I went to the Pens/Rangers this year and Crosby skated right by Lundqvist around the back of the net and clipped him on his skates. Lundqvist went down hard and they gave Crosby a penalty..Crosby started yelling at the refs like he did nothing wrong and then shoved Lundqvist out of the way when he came over to see what the call was and a mini scuffle took place.
He's also the target of a lot of abuse that would be called a penalty if it was on anyone other than an 18 year old rookie with an unjust bad reputation.

[bigmike]

the answer's ovechkin. hands down.

[Groogz]

You must have had insanely high hopes for him. 38 goals, 59 assists, and 97 points is a great season for anybody, especially a rookie. Crosby still had a tremendous season, but it was over shadowed by Ovechkins season (which was unbelievable).
I'm not going to say that he didn't have a great season or anything but people were hyping him up to be the greatest hockey player of all-time. And if already there's a rookie better than him, then he still has a ways to go to live up to complete expectations.

[Brownpants06]

I'm not going to say that he didn't have a great season or anything but people were hyping him up to be the greatest hockey player of all-time. And if already there's a rookie better than him, then he still has a ways to go to live up to complete expectations.


Ovechkin is still 3 or 4 years older than Crosby, and he will be the better player over time (crosby that is).

[Broken Parachute]

Ovechkin is still 3 or 4 years older than Crosby, and he will be the better player over time (crosby that is).

Crosby is 18, Ovechkin is 20

[histrionics22]

Crosby is 18, Ovechkin is 20
Crosby will be a better player than Ovechkin in the long run.

[marrost]

Crosby will be a better player than Ovechkin in the long run.Yea, how much did you pay for that crystal ball?

[Groogz]

Crosby will be a better player than Ovechkin in the long run. It's definitely possible, but not a guarantee. So at this point in time you have to look at who is better. Since Ovechkin had a much better season, he deserves the Caldery Trophy.

Should be quite an interesting future for both players though.

[bigmike]

It's definitely possible, but not a guarantee. So at this point in time you have to look at who is better. Since Ovechkin had a much better season, he deserves the Caldery Trophy.

Should be quite an interesting future for both players though.
i think it's kind of hard to compare crosby to ovechkin in the long wrong. they have two different styles of play. they'll both be great, great players when it's all said and done.

however, from what i've seen of this Evgeni (i think that's his first name) Malkin, he's the best of ovechkin and crosby, he could top them both.

[mikeford]

crosby is gonna win it, but ovech deserves it based on stats.

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

i think it's kind of hard to compare crosby to ovechkin in the long wrong. they have two different styles of play. they'll both be great, great players when it's all said and done.

however, from what i've seen of this Evgeni (i think that's his first name) Malkin, he's the best of ovechkin and crosby, he could top them both.
Malkin is fucking sick. I think I've read in a couple places that he WANTS to come back and play for the Penguins next season...because of Crosby.

[mikeford]

malkin is going to pwn the world... but that team still has no defense

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

malkin is going to pwn the world... but that team still has no defense
they have Whitney. Melichar is decent. He should be like a #5/6, not #3/4. That team really needs some help on the blue line.

Unfortunately for them, it seems like Noah Welch is all they have coming down the pipeline.

[histrionics22]

they have Whitney. Melichar is decent. He should be like a #5/6, not #3/4. That team really needs some help on the blue line.

Unfortunately for them, it seems like Noah Welch is all they have coming down the pipeline.
Yea kind of hard to understand seeing as how we drafted defensemen in the 1st round for years and ended up with Orpik and Whitney. The Pens have too many 5 and 6 defensemen. They need to get a good defensive defenseman.

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

Yea kind of hard to understand seeing as how we drafted defensemen in the 1st round for years and ended up with Orpik and Whitney. The Pens have too many 5 and 6 defensemen. They need to get a good defensive defenseman.
Orpik was a 1st round pick? Ouch.

And you're right. Besides Whitney and Gonchar, the Penguins 3-7 defensemen are weak. No offense.

There should be a big FA crop this year though? Maybe?

[histrionics22]

Yea, how much did you pay for that crystal ball?
It was a deal. It was free along with common sense.

[histrionics22]

Orpik was a 1st round pick? Ouch.

And you're right. Besides Whitney and Gonchar, the Penguins 3-7 defensemen are weak. No offense.

There should be a big FA crop this year though? Maybe?
I hope their are available free agents. All we have to do is pick up our defense to be able to be in contention for a playoff spot. A lot of the young forwards are playing a lot better and Fleury will be Fleury.

[aminorthreat55]

i live in D.C.

bitch.
I have been a Penguins fan since 1994. I live in Baltimore/DC and don't like the Capitals. Don't kid yourself into thinking Crosby is better. Eventually, he could be, but he isn't right now.

[aminorthreat55]

The Penguins will never have a good defense unless the dipshits in the front office realize that they'll actually have to pay money to get decent players. They're too afraid to spend any money and as a result do dumbass things like trade away Dick Tarnstrom.

[histrionics22]

The Penguins will never have a good defense unless the dipshits in the front office realize that they'll actually have to pay money to get decent players. They're too afraid to spend any money and as a result do dumbass things like trade away Dick Tarnstrom.
Tarnstrom was a power play specialist. He wasn't good defensively.

[Brownpants06]

Malkin Crosby and Andre-Fleury = Playoff team in 07/08. They need another year to get their shit together.

[mikeford]

Malkin Crosby and Andre-Fleury = Playoff team in 07/08. They need another year to get their shit together.

maybe, but if they dont get the slots... they'll be a playoff team in a different city.

[aminorthreat55]

Tarnstrom was a power play specialist. He wasn't good defensively.
I know, but trading him away for essentially nothing just made things even worse. Just because he wasn't amazing defensively doesn't mean he isn't worthless to the team. Basically, they had a lot more defensemen to get rid of before him, but instead they got rid of a good powerplay quarterback and a relatively good offensive defenseman and got jack shit in return.

[aminorthreat55]

Malkin Crosby and Andre-Fleury = Playoff team in 07/08. They need another year to get their shit together.
It doesn't matter if they get their shit together, the front office will trade away players and ruin their chances.

[ryanwheezy]

Ovechkin, easily. Ovechkin has the whole package in an NHL player... not only does he have some of the softest hands I've ever seen in a rookie, the kid is able to throw his weight around, and his penalty minutes aren't coming from his poor attitude (like Crosby). I had high hopes for Sid, and while he didn't manage to meet them, Ovechkin proved to be far better than I thought he would be.

I really don't know how you say Crosby hasn't lived up to expectation? The kid is going to end up with over 100 points in his rookie season and managed to do so on a team where players like Ziggy Plaffy and Mario quit half way through the year, Reechi was traded, and LeClair is a shell of his former self. Has Ovechkin had a better season, hell yah, but Crosby definately didn't disappoint. People forget the Ovechkin is a couple of years older than Crosby, give the kid a couple more years to mature and we'll have some fun races between the two for the Scoring Title.

[mikeford]

yeah saying crosby didnt live up to expectations isnt fair. his TEAM didnt live up to expectations but he killed it this season, even if he doesnt win the Calder.

[Brownpants06]

maybe, but if they dont get the slots... they'll be a playoff team in a different city.

winnipeg!

[Clarett'sGreyGoose]

winnipeg!
Hartford. lol.

[thedood]

Dion Phaneuf

[ThriftWhore]

Its gotta be Ovechkin, Crosby has played well but Ovechkin has blown me away with his talent.

[dai the flu]

ive only read the first 4 pages so sorry if i repeat. ovechkin will win it. crosby should. just think of all the pressure he's dealt with. the extreme media attention for so long before even starting the season. the uncertainty of pittsburgh even keeping a team this year, the expectations for him and his team, then the pressure of a horribly disappointing season for the team. all this for a kid to handle.
his whining is irritating but i have seen some absolutely insane calls go against him this year. he is being picked on soooo badly by the refs (his whining doesnt help)
like this last game against the islanders, he got brutally cross checked in the islanders zone right in front of the linesman, then immedietly skated down ice and got called for an unbelievably ticky-tack hooking call. its been that way all year.
ovechkin has better numbers. but my vote goes to crosby for how he's performed in his situation and under the scrutiny he's faced.

[bigmike]

ive only read the first 4 pages so sorry if i repeat. ovechkin will win it. crosby should. just think of all the pressure he's dealt with. the extreme media attention for so long before even starting the season. the uncertainty of pittsburgh even keeping a team this year, the expectations for him and his team, then the pressure of a horribly disappointing season for the team. all this for a kid to handle.
his whining is irritating but i have seen some absolutely insane calls go against him this year. he is being picked on soooo badly by the refs (his whining doesnt help)
like this last game against the islanders, he got brutally cross checked in the islanders zone right in front of the linesman, then immedietly skated down ice and got called for an unbelievably ticky-tack hooking call. its been that way all year.
ovechkin has better numbers. but my vote goes to crosby for how he's performed in his situation and under the scrutiny he's faced.
have you watched other games and other teams? Cross checks go uncalled and the ticky tacky calls get caught. it's been that way for every game i've seen this year.

Ovechkin had the better season. Ovechkin should win it. basically, the end.

[dai the flu]

ok ill freely admit that ovechkin had a great year. to tell you the truth, i would love nothing more than to see them both win it, as i feel they both are deserving. but they have tiebreaker provisions in place so it wont happen. its just a shame that one of those two is going to lose.

[bigmike]

ok ill freely admit that ovechkin had a great year. to tell you the truth, i would love nothing more than to see them both win it, as i feel they both are deserving. but they have tiebreaker provisions in place so it wont happen. its just a shame that one of those two is going to lose.
losing it doesn't nullify the great year they both have had. it's just ovechkin had the better season. any other year crosby wins in a walk. much like in most years lundqvist would have probably won it, as well.

that said, i bet malkin wins it next year, if he's in the league. I also think he could be better, when it's all said and done, than crosby and ovechkin. that dude's a fucking beast.

[takingbackrufio]

I want Crosby to get it, but Ovechkin clearly will, unless Phaneuf does.

[bigmike]

I want Crosby to get it, but Ovechkin clearly will, unless Phaneuf does.
there's no way phaneuf finishes higher than 3rd. and unfortunately for him, there's no way he should finish above 3rd either. just a bad year to be a rookie not named ovechkin or crosby in terms of individual hardware.

[aminorthreat55]

there's no way phaneuf finishes higher than 3rd. and unfortunately for him, there's no way he should finish above 3rd either. just a bad year to be a rookie not named ovechkin or crosby in terms of individual hardware.
Yeah, Phaneuf doesn't have a chance in hell.

[takingbackrufio]

Yeah, Phaneuf doesn't have a chance in hell.
Yeah, it was wishful thinking. Although, at this point, so is hoping Crosby gets it over Ovechkin.

[bigmike]

Yeah, it was wishful thinking. Although, at this point, so is hoping Crosby gets it over Ovechkin.
not after the night crosby had. i think he's put himself in the running for it again. he is the youngest player to ever reach 100 points, so that's worth thinking about.

[weezer182]

It would be too hard to vote against ovechkin

[bigmike]

i would think it'll go to ovechkin, but really the youngest player in history to score 100 points? and he can't even get a split of the ROY trophy? something doesn't add up to me.

[aminorthreat55]

i would think it'll go to ovechkin, but really the youngest player in history to score 100 points? and he can't even get a split of the ROY trophy? something doesn't add up to me.
Yeah I wish they could share it but I doubt it will happen. Although I don't know the voting process for the NHL awards.

[dai the flu]

i just saw a stat that really surprised me. i dont know if this has any bearing on things but ovechkin has 5 more points than crosby. but he's taken 148 more shots than crosby. thats an insane amount of shots. i noticed this watching crosby play last night, he passes up soo many opportunities for himself to try and get his teamates involved.
kindve reminds me of the kobe bryant/lebron james mvp argument.

[histrionics22]

i just saw a stat that really surprised me. i dont know if this has any bearing on things but ovechkin has 5 more points than crosby. but he's taken 148 more shots than crosby. thats an insane amount of shots. i noticed this watching crosby play last night, he passes up soo many opportunities for himself to try and get his teamates involved.
kindve reminds me of the kobe bryant/lebron james mvp argument.

Crosby's shooting percentage is 13.9. Ovechkin's is 12.4.

[bigmike]

i just saw a stat that really surprised me. i dont know if this has any bearing on things but ovechkin has 5 more points than crosby. but he's taken 148 more shots than crosby. thats an insane amount of shots. i noticed this watching crosby play last night, he passes up soo many opportunities for himself to try and get his teamates involved.
kindve reminds me of the kobe bryant/lebron james mvp argument.
because they play two different styles. ovechkin's a goal scorer. crosby's more a set up man.

[mikeford]

crosby is the next ron francis.

[aminorthreat55]

crosby is the next ron francis.
Truth. We've got a Jagr in Malkin, we just need one of the other guys to come back and be a faux-Lemieux. I don't think Morozov can do it though. But we'll have a good draft pick this next draft, so maybe it can happen.

[dai the flu]

Crosby's shooting percentage is 13.9. Ovechkin's is 12.4.

going by those numbers, if crosby takes as many shots as ovechkin, he has 20 more goals.
whats ovechkin beating him by? 5 points.

[richter915]

Ovechkin wins it based on points, skill, and the team he did it with.