Kobe not winning MVP

[Spicoli hey bud]

ESPN just said the Nash will most likely be named MVP.

Kobe deserved it, but next year Kobe and Lebron will make everyone look stupid.

Mikeford looks like youre going to have to stop watching NBA

[Broken Parachute]

I love Nash..but Kobe was flat out amazing this year.

[mikeford]

and yet another black man is robbed in Los Angeles.

[wessa]

ESPN just said the Nash will most likely be named MVP.

Kobe deserved it, but next year Kobe and Lebron will make everyone look stupid.

Mikeford looks like youre going to have to stop watching NBA


kobe deserved it, but nash deserved it more. There were plenty of guys who "deserved it", i think nash, kobe, and dirk deserved it the most (in that order). But come on, the suns lost one of the most dominating players in the league and still were great.
Everyone wants to look towards lebron and kobe cause they do high flying dunks and put up 35 a game but nash was ridiculous this year. Career high in points, first in the league in assists, first in the league in free throw percentage (92%), like 5th in three point percentage (like 43%). His stats were amazing especially cause he was playing with boris diaw and raja bell to replace joe johnson and amare stoudemire.

[bigmike]

kobe deserved it, but nash deserved it more. There were plenty of guys who "deserved it", i think nash, kobe, and dirk deserved it the most (in that order). But come on, the suns lost one of the most dominating players in the league and still were great.
Everyone wants to look towards lebron and kobe cause they do high flying dunks and put up 35 a game but nash was ridiculous this year. Career high in points, first in the league in assists, first in the league in free throw percentage (92%), like 5th in three point percentage (like 43%). His stats were amazing especially cause he was playing with boris diaw and raja bell to replace joe johnson and amare stoudemire.
kwame brown was kobe's inside presence. before him it was chris mihm. if you want to compare surrounding casts, phoenix would beat LA's more times than not.

that said, both deserve it. and i really don't care who won it.

[wessa]

kwame brown was kobe's inside presence. before him it was chris mihm. if you want to compare surrounding casts, phoenix would beat LA's more times than not.

that said, both deserve it. and i really don't care who won it.

dude, are you kidding? i know this is an old argument, but kobe's surrounding cast is just as good, if not better than nash's. See, our perception of the rest of the suns changes throughout the season once the guys play with nash. Coming into this season the suns looked HORRIBLE on paper. People weren't even picking them to make the playoffs after losing stoudemire to injury, and richardson and johnson to other teams. But nash turned scrubs like boris diaw and raja bell into solid players and phoenix was great. Do you know where boris diaw was last year? HE WAS RIDING THE BENCH FOR THE ATLANTA HAWKS. Now he is averaging 13.5 points and 7 rebounds. That is nash's influence.

[Drew Beringer]

I still think Kobe should have won it. They are both valuable to each of their teams. But put Nash on the Lakers and I seriously doubt they make the playoffs.

[weezer182]

Its hard not to give it to Nash. He had another outstanding season with a team that many people thought would be fighting for a playoff spot. Kobe did have a good season but again I think people over look the job Phil Jackson has done. If kobe would have gotten the mvp, then you would have to give phil coach of the year.

[Split2nd]

dude, are you kidding? i know this is an old argument, but kobe's surrounding cast is just as good, if not better than nash's. See, our perception of the rest of the suns changes throughout the season once the guys play with nash. Coming into this season the suns looked HORRIBLE on paper. People weren't even picking them to make the playoffs after losing stoudemire to injury, and richardson and johnson to other teams. But nash turned scrubs like boris diaw and raja bell into solid players and phoenix was great. Do you know where boris diaw was last year? HE WAS RIDING THE BENCH FOR THE ATLANTA HAWKS. Now he is averaging 13.5 points and 7 rebounds. That is nash's influence.

Or the fact that he's playing with a great point guard in a good system for a player like him...

the Lakers' supporting cast is downright awful, come on. Lamar Odom vs. Shawn Marion as the 2nd best player isn't even close, and the Suns' bench is much deeper and better than the Lakers'.

[somethingyellow]

I still think Kobe should have won it. They are both valuable to each of their teams. But put Nash on the Lakers and I seriously doubt they make the playoffs.That isnt really fair to say that about Nash because you really don't know how they would be. If you really wanna say something why not say if phil wasnt in LA the lakers dont make the playoffs? Since the Lakers team isnt that much different then last years

[bigmike]

Or the fact that he's playing with a great point guard in a good system for a player like him...

the Lakers' supporting cast is downright awful, come on. Lamar Odom vs. Shawn Marion as the 2nd best player isn't even close, and the Suns' bench is much deeper and better than the Lakers'.
cosigned.

[Spicoli hey bud]

next year Kobe and Lebron will make everyone look stupid.
yep

[ActorInThisPlay]

kwame brown was kobe's inside presence. before him it was chris mihm. if you want to compare surrounding casts, phoenix would beat LA's more times than not.

that said, both deserve it. and i really don't care who won it.
yeah not so much tonight so far...

[ActorInThisPlay]

Or the fact that he's playing with a great point guard in a good system for a player like him...

the Lakers' supporting cast is downright awful, come on. Lamar Odom vs. Shawn Marion as the 2nd best player isn't even close, and the Suns' bench is much deeper and better than the Lakers'.
Odom is a good player...people need to stop doubting him. I think he has proven himself in the playoffs so far as well as the Lakers team. This argument is null and void now.

[mikeford]

no it isnt. even if odom has stepped his game up, he's still nowhere near as good as shawn marion.

[ActorInThisPlay]

no it isnt. even if odom has stepped his game up, he's still nowhere near as good as shawn marion.
yeah but he isn't as terrible as everyone makes him out to be. Odom seems to be outplaying Marion this series so far...

[bigmike]

Odom is a good player...people need to stop doubting him. I think he has proven himself in the playoffs so far as well as the Lakers team. This argument is null and void now.
this argument isn't null and void because the lakers are winning right now 65-58. i also had said that phoenix's surrounding cast would beat the lakers more times than not. i didn't say they'd beat them everytime.

[Drew Beringer]

Oh well, I know that as a GM I would take Kobe over Nash anyday of the week.

[weezer182]

Oh well, I know that as a GM I would take Kobe over Nash anyday of the week.no one would argue against that. this award isnt about who is the best player. its the most valuable player award.

[Split2nd]

yeah but he isn't as terrible as everyone makes him out to be. Odom seems to be outplaying Marion this series so far...
I'll take the whole year over two games. Marion is a consistent 20/10 player. There aren't many players at all who put those kind of numbers up. Marion is also among the best in the league in steals, FG%, and a bunch of other categories as well. He's an all around player who consistently contributes. I really like LO, but he's no Marion.

[Drew Beringer]

no one would argue against that. this award isnt about who is the best player. its the most valuable player award.

But how can you argue who is more valuable to each team? Nash and Kobe are irreplacable for both teams.

[Split2nd]

no one would argue against that. this award isnt about who is the best player. its the most valuable player award.
This has been harped on way too much by pretty much every single "analyst," "expert," and any one who watches basketball or any other sport. The whole point of the award has just gotten irritating with all these different "interpretations."

[weezer182]

But how can you argue who is more valuable to each team? Nash and Kobe are irreplacable for both teams.I think Nash is the mvp because of what he did with phx. They weren't expect to do all that great this year but yet they finished second in the west. That and the fact that he makes everyone else on his team better. They arent going to give a co-mvp

[Drew Beringer]

I think Nash is the mvp because of what he did with phx. They weren't expect to do all that great this year but yet they finished second in the west. That and the fact that he makes everyone else on his team better. They arent going to give a co-mvp

The Lakers were'nt expected to do anything either, without Bryant they only win 20 games max. And I think they should have done a co-MVP.

[CityOfLust]

I don't like Kobe anymore. I really think he got too cocky after that 80 point game. Even though it was an incredible game.

[weezer182]

The Lakers were'nt expected to do anything either, without Bryant they only win 20 games max. And I think they should have done a co-MVP.I dont know. A lot of people thought they had a good shot at getting back to the playoffs because Phil Jackson was coming back and they did.

[bigmike]

I dont know. A lot of people thought they had a good shot at getting back to the playoffs because Phil Jackson was coming back and they did.
i didn't hear one analyst say "the lakers are making the playoffs because phil jackson's coming back." i did hear analysts say "phil jackson's making a mistake coming back to a team that won't make the playoffs," though.

[Split2nd]

I don't like Kobe anymore. I really think he got too cocky after that 80 point game. Even though it was an incredible game.
How so? Everyone sees Kobe as this arrogant cocky bastard, but I fail to see what he does to get this image.

[weezer182]

i didn't hear one analyst say "the lakers are making the playoffs because phil jackson's coming back." i did hear analysts say "phil jackson's making a mistake coming back to a team that won't make the playoffs," though.Here is how I look at it. The Lakers are obviously better this year then last year. They got a 7th seed which isnt great but atleast they are in the playoffs.The team hasn't changed that much and Phil Jackson is coaching. Yes Kobe had a better season this year. Is it because he needed a year without shaq to get use to playing with his new team?Or is it because Phil Jackson came in as their coached and helped Kobe? It probably is a little of both. I dont give all the credit to Kobe this year for the way the lakers played. I think some of it has to go to Phil but not a lot of people are talking about that. With that being said no analyst picked phoenix to finish second in the west either

[mikeford]

kobe shitted on nash with that dunk. take that white boy.

[Split2nd]

Here is how I look at it. The Lakers are obviously better this year then last year. They got a 7th seed which isnt great but atleast they are in the playoffs.The team hasn't changed that much and Phil Jackson is coaching. Yes Kobe had a better season this year. Is it because he needed a year without shaq to get use to playing with his new team?Or is it because Phil Jackson came in as their coached and helped Kobe? It probably is a little of both. I dont give all the credit to Kobe this year for the way the lakers played. I think some of it has to go to Phil but not a lot of people are talking about that. With that being said no analyst picked phoenix to finish second in the west either
Well, technically Dallas was better than them, and pretty much everyone's predictions of the West were all over the place after San Antonio.

[weezer182]

Well, technically Dallas was better than them, and pretty much everyone's predictions of the West were all over the place after San Antonio.yea but how many people had phx as the 2nd seed? not very many

[bigmike]

yea but how many people had phx as the 2nd seed? not very many
but NO one had LA finishing near the playoffs. i think a co-mvp, at the least, was warranted.

[Split2nd]

but NO one had LA finishing near the playoffs. i think a co-mvp, at the least, was warranted.
I agree, Co-MVP would've been perfect.

[Drew Beringer]

I think Kobe did a great job of maturing as a player this year.

[DevastatingDave]

Wasn't it my idea for the co-idea player like a couple weeks ago before i got banned. I would say the reason why Boris Diaw is flourishing is more because of the Sun's system then Steve Nash. He plays in a system that utilizes his strengths. I definitely think Phil Jackson did a great job coaching this year. Many consider it his best coaching job of his career. If the Lakers end up beating the Suns this series Phil Jackson definitely got snubbed for coach of the year. He's the reason why the Lakers won this game and were close the last game, not Kobe.

[ActorInThisPlay]

kobe shitted on nash with that dunk. take that white boy.
can you say charge?

[bigmike]

Wasn't it my idea for the co-idea player like a couple weeks ago before i got banned. I would say the reason why Boris Diaw is flourishing is more because of the Sun's system then Steve Nash. He plays in a system that utilizes his strengths. I definitely think Phil Jackson did a great job coaching this year. Many consider it his best coaching job of his career. If the Lakers end up beating the Suns this series Phil Jackson definitely got snubbed for coach of the year. He's the reason why the Lakers won this game and were close the last game, not Kobe.
yes. you're right. you invented the co-mvp thing. no one's ever thought of that before. ever. in history.

[ActorInThisPlay]

Wasn't it my idea for the co-idea player like a couple weeks ago before i got banned. I would say the reason why Boris Diaw is flourishing is more because of the Sun's system then Steve Nash. He plays in a system that utilizes his strengths. I definitely think Phil Jackson did a great job coaching this year. Many consider it his best coaching job of his career. If the Lakers end up beating the Suns this series Phil Jackson definitely got snubbed for coach of the year. He's the reason why the Lakers won this game and were close the last game, not Kobe.
I want to know who these "many" are...

[itsjdiggity]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060427/capt.pnu11604270542.lakers_suns_bas ketball_pnu116.jpg
nuts!

[DevastatingDave]

The bottom line is remember at the beginning of the year when everyone was predicting who was going to have a better season, Phil Jackson or Larry Brown? Most experts thought both the Lakers and Knicks would make the playoffs as 8th seeds. The Lakers are drastically better then they were last year, and I think we all know what happened to the Knicks.

[bigmike]

The bottom line is remember at the beginning of the year when everyone was predicting who was going to have a better season, Phil Jackson or Larry Brown? Most experts thought both the Lakers and Knicks would make the playoffs as 8th seeds. The Lakers are drastically better then they were last year, and I think we all know what happened to the Knicks.
i never heard one single analyst say before the season that the lakers were making the playoffs. not a single one.

[DevastatingDave]

that just proves what a great job Phil Jackson did then.

[Drew Beringer]

that just proves what a great job Phil Jackson did then.

Or how Kobe matured his game.

[DevastatingDave]

It's a little bit of both. All I know is right now the theory that Kobe doesn't make his teammates better hasn't wrung true in the Pheonix series so far.

[smokedsanity]

i never heard one single analyst say before the season that the lakers were making the playoffs. not a single one.

I heard some say it as well. It wasn't the general feeling, but I heard it enough to remember it being said.

[mikeford]

can you say charge?

i can say it, but it didnt apply to that play. kobe was in the air before nash set his feet.

[ActorInThisPlay]

i can say it, but it didnt apply to that play. kobe was in the air before nash set his feet.
no. i watched the play like 5 times on replay and even the announcers said it was a charge. it was definitely a charge.

[last light]

it could have gone either way, ive watched it a bunch of times and it was very close, every kobe hater is going to say it was a charge, every kobe lover is going to say it wasnt. too close to call, especially when its not in slow-mo.

[mikeford]

i dont even like kobe but kobe is in the air before nash sets his left foot.

[Talib Scottie]

It would have been better to see what happens this series, but I suppose it is "regular season" MVP.

[Scott Weber]

All I know is that the past 9 games Nash has missed, the Suns have lost - or something like that. It's extremely hard to not give the MVP to a guy who won it last year and then had an even better year the next year. Kobe's also fallen out of favor with the media recently, and while he had a great year, he didn't win 50 games for the Lakers. People seem to forget how insane of a season Nash led the suns to - the minute Stoudamire went down with that injury, pre-season predictions commonly had the Suns missing the playoffs. Now that's a hell of a change. Kobe did what people expected him to do, and I think that hurt him in the voting. He had an outstanding year, but Nash proved everyone wrong once again and beat the odds.

[Scott Weber]

and by the way, that Kobe dunk was CLEARLY a charge. I don't see how you could even say otherwise - there were freeze-frames on TV that clearly showed Nash in posistion, outside the restricted area, with his feet completely set before Kobe even made contact. Like, not even close.

[mikeford]

kobe had already left his feet before nash set his. that means no charge. you cant just slide in there and set your feet while the guy is in mid flight.

[weezer182]

i dont even like kobe but kobe is in the air before nash sets his left foot.you hate nash even more though

[Spicoli hey bud]

Kobe did what people expected him to do, and I think that hurt him in the voting.
I think Kobe surpassed a lot of people's expectations at least a little

[last light]

i love how we go into it being a bad call because of a freeze frame/slow mo, sure it may have been the wrong call but seeing it live is a totally different story...like i said it could have gone either way.

edit: The 20 or so times ive watched it i thought Nash was a bit late, he was set, outside of the circle, but Kobe was in the air. then again i was rooting for the lakers haha ;)

[last light]

I think Kobe surpassed a lot of people's expectations at least a little

id say by a lot.

i think Nash deserved the MVP, as did Kobe. It will be interesting to hear the margin of which Nash won by.

[somethingyellow]

i love how we go into it being a bad call because of a freeze frame/slow mo, sure it may have been the wrong call but seeing it live is a totally different story...like i said it could have gone either way.

edit: The 20 or so times ive watched it i thought Nash was a bit late, he was set, outside of the circle, but Kobe was in the air. then again i was rooting for the lakers haha ;)i did the same thing and thought it was a charge every single time i watched it, even when it happened live. I was rooting for the suns though haha

[Spicoli hey bud]

id say by a lot.

i think Nash deserved the MVP, as did Kobe. It will be interesting to hear the margin of which Nash won by.
that's why i say at least a little. i mean really, who expected him to drop 81?

[last light]

i did the same thing and thought it was a charge every single time i watched it, even when it happened live. I was rooting for the suns though haha

haha ya the whole thing is stupid, suns fans are going to call it one way, lakers fans are going to call it another way...was it a charge? ya. probably. all i know is i jumped out of my chair when it happened hahah great series what more can we ask for?

[last light]

that's why i say at least a little. i mean really, who expected him to drop 81?

not too many people expected them to get to the playoffs either. he had an MVP season, Nash is just as deserving though.

Nash/Kobe > LeBron > Nowitzki

[somethingyellow]

haha ya the whole thing is stupid, suns fans are going to call it one way, lakers fans are going to call it another way...was it a charge? ya. probably. all i know is i jumped out of my chair when it happened hahah great series what more can we ask for?Agreed two very close games, which i continue to see happen this whole series even when it goes back to LA. I think now this series goes to 7 games, which i never thought it would before

[last light]

Agreed two very close games, which i continue to see happen this whole series even when it goes back to LA. I think now this series goes to 7 games, which i never thought it would before

neither did i haha, i was saying 6 because im a Laker fan, i thought it would be a sweep though. Lakers are easily (in my opinion) the most improved team from Day 1 of the season.

[ActorInThisPlay]

kobe had already left his feet before nash set his. that means no charge. you cant just slide in there and set your feet while the guy is in mid flight.
http://www.absolutepunk.net/showpost.php?p=3201669&postcount=255

here mikeford...watch that and then tell me again that Kobe was in mid flight when Nash is in his position.

[sweethypocrisy]

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showpost.php?p=3201669&postcount=255

here mikeford...watch that and then tell me again that Kobe was in mid flight when Nash is in his position.
nash was about a split second late. or maybe a split second early. either way, its a tough call, and it was only two points.

[last light]

nash was about a split second late. or maybe a split second early. either way, its a tough call, and it was only two points.

haha ya i just watched that video for about 5 mins straight and no way could i decide if it was a block or charge if i were the ref. not a chance.

[sweethypocrisy]

haha ya i just watched that video for about 5 mins straight and no way could i decide if it was a block or charge if i were the ref. not a chance.
same.

[sweethypocrisy]

ok it wasnt a charge, because kobe was about 1 cm in the air before nash set himself. extremely close. if i were a ref i wouldve just layed in the fetal position.

[ActorInThisPlay]

nash was about a split second late. or maybe a split second early. either way, its a tough call, and it was only two points.
yeah but that was when it was a critical point in the game. PHX was making a comeback and without that score PHX could have brought down to like 3 I think.

[last light]

yeah but that was when it was a critical point in the game. PHX was making a comeback and without that score PHX could have brought down to like 3 I think.

its just too close to call in regular speed...theres no way you can deny that...especially off of a broken play.

[ActorInThisPlay]

it looks pretty obvious to me, watch where Nash is when Kobe's last foot leaves the ground.

[ActorInThisPlay]

its just too close to call in regular speed...theres no way you can deny that...especially off of a broken play.
ok whatever, it was close. but at home, you should get those calls. if anything it looked a lot more like a charge then a blocking foul.

[last light]

ok whatever, it was close. but at home, you should get those calls. if anything it looked a lot more like a charge then a blocking foul.

i agree it was a charge, especially after seeing it in slow mo, and they should have gotten the call at home...im just saying there is noooooo way had we never seen a slow motion shot we could make a call and for sure know it was the right one.

[itsjdiggity]

there's a huge picture of that dunk on the front of the LA Times

[last light]

there's a huge picture of that dunk on the front of the LA Times

haha nice ,i havent seen it yet.

[fluke182]

dude, are you kidding? i know this is an old argument, but kobe's surrounding cast is just as good, if not better than nash's. See, our perception of the rest of the suns changes throughout the season once the guys play with nash. Coming into this season the suns looked HORRIBLE on paper. People weren't even picking them to make the playoffs after losing stoudemire to injury, and richardson and johnson to other teams. But nash turned scrubs like boris diaw and raja bell into solid players and phoenix was great. Do you know where boris diaw was last year? HE WAS RIDING THE BENCH FOR THE ATLANTA HAWKS. Now he is averaging 13.5 points and 7 rebounds. That is nash's influence.
Nash made Diaw get 7 rebounds a game? I'd personally say that was likely playing time chief.