taxes

[selftitled85]

its that dreaded 5 letter word.

but am i the only person that sees that with such a huge deficit and states such as nj having huge debts that a rise in taxes could be just what this nation needs?

[enj0i29]

taxes can suck my dick,
But I see what you mean, It could work, even a couple cents extra on shit would make a diff.

[Justin_stacy]

Credits and deductables need to be cut before taxes should go up any higher. Reform is the only answer for our tax system.

[catscradle]

fairtax baby.

[Trainsaw]

fairtax baby.
It has its downsides, like a lot of people cheating taxes, If the only thing you are taxed on is what you spend many people will actually buy of blackmarket and such to avoid taxes. Also I believe you get to write off some stuff so you will still see a good bit of tax cheating.

We need to just suck it up and pay a little bit more in taxes. These tax rebates like the one Bush gave out early in his term didn't do anything but hurt us, esp when we turned around and went to war. Everyone is so damn bullheaded and demanding not to pay a bit more in higher taxes yet then get in an uproar over a deficit and such.

[aminorthreat55]

I don't mind a minimal rise in taxes.

[cal1082]

its that dreaded 5 letter word.

but am i the only person that sees that with such a huge deficit and states such as nj having huge debts that a rise in taxes could be just what this nation needs?

I think that would the completely wrong thing to do. You cut spending and you curb defecits. Simply raising taxes will give them more to spend! You shouldnt have to raise taxes because those actually paying taxes are over taxed.

[selftitled85]

I think that would the completely wrong thing to do. You cut spending and you curb defecits. Simply raising taxes will give them more to spend! You shouldnt have to raise taxes because those actually paying taxes are over taxed.


this is true. but you and i both know bush does not know how to curb spending.

[cal1082]

this is true. but you and i both know bush does not know how to curb spending.

Then why even consider raising taxes?

I've never been a fan of how the administration has handled the economic side of things. Basically he's a liberals/Democrats ideal economic President aside from a few things here and there. Congress is just as much to blame, if not more to blame.

That's why I want someone like Newt in office. (Newt's economic plan) (http://www.newt.org/backpage.asp?art=2649)

Also most American can't even begin to criticize the government for spending for the most part. It's sad when the majority of the population has a negative savings rate. They are no better than the government in which they are criticizing.

[Bishop]

Honestly I wouldn't mind paying a bit more on taxes if I actually knew that the money was going toward the deficit. Of course chances of that happening? About nil.

[noodledancer]

raising taxes might help short-term, if at all, but it won't solve the central problem- governments don't spend responsibly. if corporations ran their finances like the government, they'd all go under.

[Justin_stacy]

Honestly I wouldn't mind paying a bit more on taxes if I actually knew that the money was going toward the deficit. Of course chances of that happening? About nil.


Why? What great personal gain is accomplished by lowering the deficit, that is worthy of higher taxes? Do you really believe that once the current deficit is paid that congress won't just again go in the red? That they will somehow magically become responsible this time around?

The only time our government has been in the green is when they've taken in so much money in taxes (due to a strong economy) that they can't find ways fast enough to spend it. Clinton wasn't fiscally responsible nor were the congresses of the early 90’s; they just didn't have time to spend all that they had coming in.....it absolutely pointless for us to pay more in tax to correct a mistake their just going to make again and again.



They talk about us owing like $400 billion or something. I always think, 'Do we actually owe somebody that?' And if we do, you know, don't pay 'em. Nobody pays us! There ya go, I just solved the deficit."

[youcomebeforeyo]

The US system definately needs reform. I have a great little example of how fucked it is in places. My dad works for a San Fransisco based company here in New Zealand that does web deliveries. He runs the site.

So one day when he was entering data in for surcharges in different states he came across a page of odd tax rates in Houston. Basicly this one block of the city had taken a loan out 100 years ago for new sewage pipes and now had a special tax rate imposed on the block for any mail order deliveries or anything sold in this block.

Unrelated to the deficit but with a tax system that strange you can see how much reform must be needed.

Australia just managed to pay off its national debt recentely, I find that interesting. Maybe their economic plan could be followed.

[aminorthreat55]

Why? What great personal gain is accomplished by lowering the deficit, that is worthy of higher taxes? Do you really believe that once the current deficit is paid that congress won't just again go in the red? That they will somehow magically become responsible this time around?

The only time our government has been in the green is when they've taken in so much money in taxes (due to a strong economy) that they can't find ways fast enough to spend it. Clinton wasn't fiscally responsible nor were the congresses of the early 90’s; they just didn't have time to spend all that they had coming in.....it absolutely pointless for us to pay more in tax to correct a mistake their just going to make again and again.



They talk about us owing like $400 billion or something. I always think, 'Do we actually owe somebody that?' And if we do, you know, don't pay 'em. Nobody pays us! There ya go, I just solved the deficit."
We HAVE to pay some of the national debt off in the near future. As other economies around the world get stronger, we need to be in the best financial position possible. Recently, confidence in the dollar has been dropping a little bit, and if it continues to get worse, no one overseas (they support most of our debt) is going to want to buy bonds from the treasury. So we're going to have to raise the interest rates to sell them at lower discount prices, then end up paying more interest on the bonds, making the debt still climb even more. Then the economy will tank because raising the interest rate fucks the financial market, but is also a big determinate in investment in the goods market, and then we're gonna be in a fantastic recession that has almost nothing to do with the business cycle, and will fuck us up for a while. It's not being in debt by itself that's the problem, it's the fact that the debt can really fuck up the economy given the right conditions.

[Bishop]

Why? What great personal gain is accomplished by lowering the deficit, that is worthy of higher taxes? Do you really believe that once the current deficit is paid that congress won't just again go in the red? That they will somehow magically become responsible this time around?

The only time our government has been in the green is when they've taken in so much money in taxes (due to a strong economy) that they can't find ways fast enough to spend it. Clinton wasn't fiscally responsible nor were the congresses of the early 90’s; they just didn't have time to spend all that they had coming in.....it absolutely pointless for us to pay more in tax to correct a mistake their just going to make again and again.



They talk about us owing like $400 billion or something. I always think, 'Do we actually owe somebody that?' And if we do, you know, don't pay 'em. Nobody pays us! There ya go, I just solved the deficit."


I'm not saying some huge amount is going to be needed, like here in Florida we have a 1 cent tax that goes toward schools and on a 30 minute drive I see 2 schools that are under construction. What does this mean? It means that my sisters overcrowded school can experience some relief so that she can get a better education and more individual attention can be paid to her and other students, then hopefully her and others will be going into college and receiving an education that will make them more competitive in what is increasingly becoming a more global economy. For something like that, yes, I would pay an extra cent for a bottle of Coke.

[justinevans]

We HAVE to pay some of the national debt off in the near future. As other economies around the world get stronger, we need to be in the best financial position possible. Recently, confidence in the dollar has been dropping a little bit, and if it continues to get worse, no one overseas (they support most of our debt) is going to want to buy bonds from the treasury. So we're going to have to raise the interest rates to sell them at lower discount prices, then end up paying more interest on the bonds, making the debt still climb even more. Then the economy will tank because raising the interest rate fucks the financial market, but is also a big determinate in investment in the goods market, and then we're gonna be in a fantastic recession that has almost nothing to do with the business cycle, and will fuck us up for a while. It's not being in debt by itself that's the problem, it's the fact that the debt can really fuck up the economy given the right conditions.

IF WE GO DOWN.......EVERYONE ELSE GOES DOWN 10 TIMES WORSE.

[FScott]

americans pay low taxes compared to the rest of the world

[Neo Cassady]

We HAVE to pay some of the national debt off in the near future. As other economies around the world get stronger, we need to be in the best financial position possible. Recently, confidence in the dollar has been dropping a little bit, and if it continues to get worse, no one overseas (they support most of our debt) is going to want to buy bonds from the treasury. So we're going to have to raise the interest rates to sell them at lower discount prices, then end up paying more interest on the bonds, making the debt still climb even more. Then the economy will tank because raising the interest rate fucks the financial market, but is also a big determinate in investment in the goods market, and then we're gonna be in a fantastic recession that has almost nothing to do with the business cycle, and will fuck us up for a while. It's not being in debt by itself that's the problem, it's the fact that the debt can really fuck up the economy given the right conditions.

I agree partly.

45% of our debt is intra-government (one sector owes another), the rest is owed in US dollars. Since our money isn't even backed up with gold anymore, we could, theoretically, erase the debt by printing more money. This would drive money supply up, and since there is more money circulating, banks charge lower interest rates because they have more money to loan out and it's worth charging a lower rate than to have it sitting in their vaults earning no interest. Because of the lower rates, people borrow more, and therefore spend more, which causes an increase in aggregate demand. More demand means an eventual increase in prices, since companies must hire new people to make more product. As price goes up, consumers begin spending less since their dollar is worth less (they have to spend more to get the same). As they do this, it means they are holding more money in their own pockets, and investing less because they need more to buy goods. Also, our country will export less because people don't want to spend more on a foreign good that's cheaper to produce themselves. Overall, however, our economy grows (and the debt shrinks). But we don't do all of that because of the enormous amount of inflation it would cause.

Secondly, if we're already in a deficit, and the government lowers its spending, or raises taxes, it would only make the deficit worse.

I'm not even sure if this answered anything, but it helped me study for my econ final. Kickass.

[justinevans]

americans pay low taxes compared to the rest of the world

Well that is because other parts of the world have safety nets for their people. when you have huge safety nets however, people do not have the incentive to work and be productive.

[Trainsaw]

IF WE GO DOWN.......EVERYONE ELSE GOES DOWN 10 TIMES WORSE.
That is one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time.

[Trainsaw]

I agree partly.

45% of our debt is intra-government (one sector owes another), the rest is owed in US dollars. Since our money isn't even backed up with gold anymore, we could, theoretically, erase the debt by printing more money. This would drive money supply up, and since there is more money circulating, banks charge lower interest rates because they have more money to loan out and it's worth charging a lower rate than to have it sitting in their vaults earning no interest. Because of the lower rates, people borrow more, and therefore spend more, which causes an increase in aggregate demand. More demand means an eventual increase in prices, since companies must hire new people to make more product. As price goes up, consumers begin spending less since their dollar is worth less (they have to spend more to get the same). As they do this, it means they are holding more money in their own pockets, and investing less because they need more to buy goods. Also, our country will export less because people don't want to spend more on a foreign good that's cheaper to produce themselves. Overall, however, our economy grows (and the debt shrinks). But we don't do all of that because of the enormous amount of inflation it would cause.

Secondly, if we're already in a deficit, and the government lowers its spending, or raises taxes, it would only make the deficit worse.

I'm not even sure if this answered anything, but it helped me study for my econ final. Kickass.
If we print more money that will just lower the value of our dollar and cause massive inflation. We can't fix a problem by just printing more for the sole purpose to fix it. And i think you don't understand our spending economy either. We are basically a country that the majority of us don't believe in saving. If we give more money people aren't going to save and invest they're going to spend. I understand the idea that prices will go up but you gotta remember, Walmart is a huge factor in this, they solely can hold inflation down somewhat, and their strive to provide low prices can force people to shop there to get the most out of their dollar.

Also I don't really see how raising tax revenue will create a bigger deficit, a deficit is caused when you are over budget and you don't have enough funds to pay for the budget. So if you raise taxes that means the government has more money to pay for that budget, thus making the deficit smaller.

[cal1082]

Many of you make it more difficult than it is. You simply take the measure that was taken this past year that helped cut it some many billions of dollars.......................don't spend. That's all you have to do.

[Trainsaw]

Many of you make it more difficult than it is. You simply take the measure that was taken this past year that helped cut it some many billions of dollars.......................don't spend. That's all you have to do.
But we still are spending.........Iraq? We're not going to run a surplus this year so I would hardly say to follow the measure taken by this year

[cal1082]

But we still are spending.........Iraq? We're not going to run a surplus this year so I would hardly say to follow the measure taken by this year

Of course you're spending in Iraq.......it's a war!

Fact of the matter is that the deficit was in place before the Iraq war, and the deficit went from $413 to $319 billion this past year with the Iraq war still in play.

Again all you have to do is stop spending so much.

[aminorthreat55]

I agree partly.

45% of our debt is intra-government (one sector owes another), the rest is owed in US dollars. Since our money isn't even backed up with gold anymore, we could, theoretically, erase the debt by printing more money. This would drive money supply up, and since there is more money circulating, banks charge lower interest rates because they have more money to loan out and it's worth charging a lower rate than to have it sitting in their vaults earning no interest. Because of the lower rates, people borrow more, and therefore spend more, which causes an increase in aggregate demand. More demand means an eventual increase in prices, since companies must hire new people to make more product. As price goes up, consumers begin spending less since their dollar is worth less (they have to spend more to get the same). As they do this, it means they are holding more money in their own pockets, and investing less because they need more to buy goods. Also, our country will export less because people don't want to spend more on a foreign good that's cheaper to produce themselves. Overall, however, our economy grows (and the debt shrinks). But we don't do all of that because of the enormous amount of inflation it would cause.

Secondly, if we're already in a deficit, and the government lowers its spending, or raises taxes, it would only make the deficit worse.

I'm not even sure if this answered anything, but it helped me study for my econ final. Kickass.
Um, if we just printed more money we'd cause hyperinflation and fuck the economy in the ass, so yeah, we wouldn't do that.

[aminorthreat55]

IF WE GO DOWN.......EVERYONE ELSE GOES DOWN 10 TIMES WORSE.
Not necessarily, the global economy is changing so rapidly, it wouldn't be completely ridiculous for us to take a big fall like England did in the first half of the 20th century.

[Trainsaw]

Um, if we just printed more money we'd cause hyperinflation and fuck the economy in the ass, so yeah, we wouldn't do that.
that guy is going to fail his test hardcore

[aminorthreat55]

that guy is going to fail his test hardcore
Meh, he mentioned the inflation at the end, so at least he realizes it. I initially missed the fact that he said that, I read a few lines and flipped out when I saw that he thought it was all that simple.

[aminorthreat55]

Many of you make it more difficult than it is. You simply take the measure that was taken this past year that helped cut it some many billions of dollars.......................don't spend. That's all you have to do.
Easier said than done. I mean I'm totally with you that cutting spending is the easiest solution, but I just don't have that much faith in my government anymore.

[cal1082]

Easier said than done. I mean I'm totally with you that cutting spending is the easiest solution, but I just don't have that much faith in my government anymore.

that's why we need a fiscal conservative in office

[Trainsaw]

Meh, he mentioned the inflation at the end, so at least he realizes it. I initially missed the fact that he said that, I read a few lines and flipped out when I saw that he thought it was all that simple.
haha, yeah, If it were that easy we woulda already done that

[aminorthreat55]

that's why we need a fiscal conservative in office
"You are correct sir!"

I'm amazed my google image search did not find a single photoshopped Ed McMahon picture.

[Trainsaw]

Many of you make it more difficult than it is. You simply take the measure that was taken this past year that helped cut it some many billions of dollars.......................don't spend. That's all you have to do.
I don't know if you saw the thread, it got bumped to the middle of the page but the GOP is suggesting a $100 tax rebate for every tax payer because of the high gas prices, so that might ruin things for this past year

[cal1082]

to be honest with you I dont think it's the federal governments job to be trying to relieve gas prices.

[Trainsaw]

to be honest with you I dont think it's the federal governments job to be trying to relieve gas prices.
Neither do I. It isn't like giving this is going to be relief until the problem is over, we're going to see this happen a number of times from now on

[cal1082]

Neither do I. It isn't like giving this is going to be relief until the problem is over, we're going to see this happen a number of times from now on

I jsut dont think it's there job because it does nothing for the problem except spend more money.

You want gas prices to go down you quit driving as much

[selftitled85]

I jsut dont think it's there job because it does nothing for the problem except spend more money.

You want gas prices to go down you quit driving as much


america needs to get its finger out of its ass and pump a lot of money into cellulosic ethanol and biodiesel. they both work with existing engines, both are very good for the environment, both can be produced from materials america has a ton of, both can create a lot of new jobs, and both can relieve our addiction to oil.

from here america can import much less and it will help lower the deficit by a lot.

[Justin_stacy]

We HAVE to pay some of the national debt off in the near future. As other economies around the world get stronger, we need to be in the best financial position possible. Recently, confidence in the dollar has been dropping a little bit, and if it continues to get worse, no one overseas (they support most of our debt) is going to want to buy bonds from the treasury. So we're going to have to raise the interest rates to sell them at lower discount prices, then end up paying more interest on the bonds, making the debt still climb even more. Then the economy will tank because raising the interest rate fucks the financial market, but is also a big determinate in investment in the goods market, and then we're gonna be in a fantastic recession that has almost nothing to do with the business cycle, and will fuck us up for a while. It's not being in debt by itself that's the problem, it's the fact that the debt can really fuck up the economy given the right conditions.
The solution is the concern.

By raising taxes to pay off a problem that was created in the first place by an over abundance of tax payer money adds to the problem, rather then solves it. The deficit can not just be paid off with another tax on an already over taxed society.

A deficit is created because a government is unaccountable in its spending habbits. Your solution rewards this unaccountability, and allows for it to continue indefinitely. If the deficit is paid off with a “special” tax, who is to say the politicians that created the deficit in the first place won't just create another deficit and expect it to again be paid off with another "special" tax???? Your solution creates a cycle of dependence and corruption, much like socialism.

The way to control the deficit (and partially pay it off) is to control spending and tax revenue. Since the average citizen has no control directly over the spending in Washington, the way we can control it is by controlling who we give the ability to spend it....i.e. elected politicians. To fix the deficit we need to elect fiscal conservative republicans and democrats and term limit them. The deficit will never go always so long as free spending liberal/neo-con politicians are in charge, and no tax is going to change that.

The US government takes in almost 2 trillion dollars in tax money every year from an array of sources. That is more then enough money to have a balanced budget. So why can't they do it? It’s because we don't hold them accountable too, we don't demand it nor expect it. The way to solve the deficit is to look at what's/whose causing it and get rid of them, not to give them more money to play with.

[aminorthreat55]

The solution is the concern.

By raising taxes to pay off a problem that was created in the first place by an over abundance of tax payer money adds to the problem, rather then solves it. The deficit can not just be paid off with another tax on an already over taxed society.

A deficit is created because a government is unaccountable in its spending habbits. Your solution rewards this unaccountability, and allows for it to continue indefinitely. If the deficit is paid off with a “special” tax, who is to say the politicians that created the deficit in the first place won't just create another deficit and expect it to again be paid off with another "special" tax???? Your solution creates a cycle of dependence and corruption, much like socialism.

The way to control the deficit (and partially pay it off) is to control spending and tax revenue. Since the average citizen has no control directly over the spending in Washington, the way we can control it is by controlling who we give the ability to spend it....i.e. elected politicians. To fix the deficit we need to elect fiscal conservative republicans and democrats and term limit them. The deficit will never go always so long as free spending liberal/neo-con politicians are in charge, and no tax is going to change that.

The US government takes in almost 2 trillion dollars in tax money every year from an array of sources. That is more then enough money to have a balanced budget. So why can't they do it? It’s because we don't hold them accountable too, we don't demand it nor expect it. The way to solve the deficit is to look at what's/whose causing it and get rid of them, not to give them more money to play with.
As much as I agree, like I said before, I really just can't see it happening. Basically there are several theoretical solutions, but none which really work with the way politics in Washington work. I don't have much trust or hope in this government, so . . .

[justinevans]

america needs to get its finger out of its ass and pump a lot of money into cellulosic ethanol and biodiesel. they both work with existing engines, both are very good for the environment, both can be produced from materials america has a ton of, both can create a lot of new jobs, and both can relieve our addiction to oil.

from here america can import much less and it will help lower the deficit by a lot.

most of the has E85 Stations....however ethanol is not a powerful as regular gasoline, which means you get less miles per gallon.