Reasons NOT to go to college?

[uh oh smmoreo]

5. Plenty of other people did fine
Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Quentin Tarantino, David Geffen, and Thomas Edison, among others, never graduated from college. Peter Jennings and John D. Rockefeller never finished high school.

4. You don't need to be in a classroom in order to learn something.
Truly motivated learners can teach themselves almost anything with a couple of books and an Internet connection. Want to learn a hands-on skill or trade? Consider an apprenticeship.

3. In fact, you could probably make more money if you invested your tuition.
Put $160,000--the approximate cost of a Harvard education--into municipal bonds that pay a conservative 5%, and you'll have saved more than $500,000 in 30 years. That's far more than the average college grad will accumulate in the same amount of time.

2. You won't necessarily earn less money.
College grads earn an average 62% more over the course of their careers than high school grads. But economist Robert Reischauer of the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C., argues that those numbers are skewed by the fact that smarter kids are more likely to go to college in the first place. In other words, the profitability of higher education is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

1. You'll be losing four working years.
There's an opportunity cost associated with going to college: Not only will you lose the money you'll have spent on tuition, you'll also be out the amount of money that you could have made if you'd worked during those four years. And if your family isn't wealthy enough to pay for your education on their own, you'll also owe a hefty amount in interest payments for your student loans. Perhaps more importantly, with four years of experience on your resume, you’ll be far better off when looking for work than the average 22-year-old college graduate.

-----------------------------------------------------------

New York - College is expensive. Four years at an elite university like Princeton or Harvard will set you back around $160,000.

That’s a lot of money, but consider the benefits: The professors, the coursework, the people you’ll meet and the invaluable experiences you’ll have. And, of course, the bottom line: You’ll earn more money afterward. In fact, on average, the holder of a four-year college degree will earn 62% more over their lifetimes than a typical high-school graduate. And that’s just on average. The return on investment for attending one of the nation’s 25 or so most selective colleges is far more impressive. Money well spent, right?

Well, not necessarily.

Although there is clearly a correlation between earnings and a four-year degree, a correlation isn’t the same thing as a cause. Economists like Robert Reischauer ruffled feathers several years ago by pointing out that talented, driven kids are more likely to go to college in the first place--that they succeed, in other words, because of their innate abilities, not because of their formal education. Bill Gates, who dropped out of Harvard to start Microsoft (MSFT), certainly doesn’t fit the stereotype of a low paid college dropout.

How to Get StartedIn fact, more than a couple of billionaires never graduated from college. Larry Ellison, cofounder of database giant Oracle (ORCL), dropped out of the University of Illinois and is now worth $16 billion. Fellow billionaire John Simplot, inventor of the frozen French fry, never even finished high school. Neither did Alan Gerry, who built the first cable television network in upstate New York and then sold it to Time Warner Cable for $2.8 billion.

In fact, there is plenty of evidence that what really matters is how smart you are, not where -- or even if -- you went to school. According to a number of studies, small differences in SAT scores, which you take before going to college, correlate with measurably higher incomes. And, according to a report from the National Bureau of Economic Research, the lifetime income of high-school dropouts is directly associated with their scores on a battery of intelligence tests.

By this logic, the real economic value in a Princeton degree is not the vaunted Princeton education, but in signaling potential employers that you are smart enough to get into Princeton. Actually, attending the classes is irrelevant. A few years back, we even went so far as to speculate that an entrepreneur could build a healthy businesses by charging, say $16,000, to certify qualified high-school graduates as Ivy League material. College-skippers could invest the $144,000 savings and have a nice nest-egg built up by the time they are in their mid-30s. And they could use their formative years between 18 and 22 to learn an actual trade.

In truth, most professions -- journalism, software engineering, sales, and trading stocks to name but a few -- depend far more on “on-the-job” education than on classroom learning. Until relatively recently, lawyers, architects and pharmacists learned their trade through apprenticeship, not through higher education.

Certainly some jobs -- medical doctors and university professors -- require formal education. But many do not, and between the Internet and an excellent public library system, most Americans can learn pretty much anything for a nominal fee. By all means, go to college if you want the “university experience,” but don’t spend all that cash just on the assumption that it will lead you to a higher-paying job.


---
I'm not sure of the source of this, but it seems like it makes some good points. What do you think? Is college really necessary or important?

[xllirikx]

dumbest thing I've ever read, lets me explain why:

[xllirikx]

5. Plently of people did fine? You named uber-rich celebrities, about ten people. So ten out of 300 million people in the US. Yeah, thats about .00001 percent.

4. Only point I agree with.

3. You could do that, but two problems arise. First, where are you going to get 160,000 right away. No bank will give you a loan to just put it away. And ... maybe if you went to college you would have taken an econ class and realized that bond prices change, inflation reduces that interest rate to only 1%.

2. I know nothing about that statistic, can't argue.

1. Lets again return to economics. Ever heard of the cost-benefit principle. You lose four working years for the chance to retire early, have a more satisfying life and so on.

[Sureshot182]

5. Plently of people did fine? You named uber-rich celebrities, about ten people. So ten out of 300 million people in the US. Yeah, thats about .00001 percent.

4. Only point I agree with.

3. You could do that, but two problems arise. First, where are you going to get 160,000 right away. No bank will give you a loan to just put it away. And ... maybe if you went to college you would have taken an econ class and realized that bond prices change, inflation reduces that interest rate to only 1%.

2. I know nothing about that statistic, can't argue.

1. Lets again return to economics. Ever heard of the cost-benefit principle. You lose four working years for the chance to retire early, have a more satisfying life and so on.

i completely agree with you on all these, especially number one.

[xllirikx]

Thanks.

Are you not going or something?

[Tsagoodness]

go to college, its an experience you need in life, it's not just about learning school material, you learn who you are and how you work.

[GoWaitInTheCar]

I strive to believe that this makes sense.

[roxy]

go to college, its an experience you need in life, it's not just about learning school material, you learn who you are and how you work.
Exactly. Its more than just a degree. You grow up so much and find yourself. You learn how to actually work, and budget, and to think differently.

[xllirikx]

good thread.

[DeathCabForCoon]

College is the best experience I've ever had. I'm only halfway done and I've learned more than I ever thought and made connections with people who are really going places. You are going to meet the next CEO's of fortune 500 companies, and they'll remember that one time you gave them the last beer at the party.

[cuetheflames]

5. Plenty of other people did fine
Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Quentin Tarantino, David Geffen, and Thomas Edison, among others, never graduated from college. Peter Jennings and John D. Rockefeller never finished high school.

well.... thats 7 people out of several million that ended up making a ton of money without going to college. but i dont think id exactly call that "plenty."

[dashboard1190]

5. Plenty of other people did fine
Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Quentin Tarantino, David Geffen, and Thomas Edison, among others, never graduated from college. Peter Jennings and John D. Rockefeller never finished high school.

well.... thats 7 people out of several million that ended up making a ton of money without going to college. but i dont think id exactly call that "plenty."

Exactly, oh and you forgot: Homeless man, mom on welfare they all didn't go to college either!

[aminorthreat55]

Too bad not going to college and having these things happen is a total crapshoot. I'll pay $16,000 a year for four years to earn $20,000 a year extra from then on.

[Jesse2]

3. In fact, you could probably make more money if you invested your tuition.
Put $160,000--the approximate cost of a Harvard education--into municipal bonds that pay a conservative 5%, and you'll have saved more than $500,000 in 30 years. That's far more than the average college grad will accumulate in the same amount of time.

most people who decide to go to college don't have $160,000 to start with.

do me a favor, go on monster.com or some job site like that and find the highest-paying job you can that DOESN'T require AT LEAST 4 years of college.

College isn't for everyone, I understand that, but don't make a life-altering decision based on some dumbass list (probably written by someone hoping to justify why he/she didn't go to college).

I have friends from high school who skipped college, and most of them have reached their maximum salary potential (around 50k). That money may seem like a lot to someone right out of highschool, but with a spouse, kids, cars, and house it's really not much at all.

I also have friends from high school that started out making 50-80k a year, but none of them are even CLOSE to their respective maximum salary potential.

Figure out what you want to do, and whether or not it requires higher education, if it does, do it. It's that simple.

[aminorthreat55]

I'll give a good example here, my roommate is 22 and only a sophomore. He decided college wasn't necessary for him because he had a lot of good skills and didn't have the money to pay for school. He worked his way into working on a Naval Air station where he eventually became a systems engineer for the President's Marine One helicopter, which is pretty impressive for no degree. However he made basically nothing, while a 40 year old in his division with only a Bachelors made about $25K a year more than him simply because he had a degree. So after 2 years out of high school with a pretty legitimate job, he left work at the Air station to go back to school simply because he will get paid much much more just for having a degree. It's true you can succeed without a college degree, but management knows they can pay you less because you don't have the qualifications to back up whatever experience and/or intelligence you have. They want tangible proof that you are of value to their company. Bottom line, go to college.

[Make Out Kid]

my only reason
1)Animal Collective tells me I don't have to.

[CorporateFish]

I've learned more than I ever thought and made connections with people who are really going places.
I see college mostly as a way to make connections that'll help me once I'm out. In many cases, who you know seems more important that your degree.

[Salomonbz90]

go to college, its an experience you need in life, it's not just about learning school material, you learn who you are and how you work.
thats how I feel about it. Im in college and I love it..its hard yes..but it teaches you about yourself.

[YoungNastyMan]

Does almost everyone go to college in the US? I think over here they're trying to get the rate of kids going upto 50% and we're still smarter than you are.

[selftitled85]

Does almost everyone go to college in the US? I think over here they're trying to get the rate of kids going upto 50% and we're still smarter than you are.

correction:
uk secondary schools >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us high schools
us colleges and universities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uk colleges and universities

[selftitled85]

you also must realize that people like bill gates and thomas edison were entrepreneurs. they thought of something that not many people had thought of before and turned it into billion dollar industries.

if you offer something to the world that no one else can...than you might not need college because all it is doing is prolonging the inevitable. but if bill's microsoft had not worked...im sure he would have gone back to school.

[aminorthreat55]

correction:
uk secondary schools >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us high schools
us colleges and universities >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> uk colleges and universities
Basically.

[ClapClapSnap]

my mom was a senior software engineer...her salary doubled when she finally got her degree

she started at this company at 17 lower than a secretary, and worked her way up to that over 30 years...she's the reason i'm going to college

[A picasso blue]

Bill Gates has incredible entrepeneurial skills. something not everyone has.

[A picasso blue]

also..why start work so early? your whole life is going to be work so might as well get in some years at college having fun instead or rushing off to a job

[selftitled85]

also..why start work so early? your whole life is going to be work so might as well get in some years at college having fun instead or rushing off to a job

my rationale...or at least part of my rationale.

[noodledancer]

2. You won't necessarily earn less money.
College grads earn an average 62% more over the course of their careers than high school grads. But economist Robert Reischauer of the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C., argues that those numbers are skewed by the fact that smarter kids are more likely to go to college in the first place. In other words, the profitability of higher education is a self-fulfilling prophecy. correct. you won't necessarily earn less, but you most likely will. employers want bright, motivated people. a college degree is an indicator that a person has those qualities, & they will be valued more than someone without one. exceptions of course being anyone seeking employment with mr. gates, ellison, tarantino, geffen, edison, jennings, or rockefeller.

any skewing of that relationship is more likely to be due to the few uniquely brilliant high school grads, like the gentlemen listed above, inflating the average earnings of that group. that, & movie star incomes.

[Doug Heffernan]

Why go to college if you can be an IPS worker like me? I get to wear shorts all day and be lazy and not advance in my career.

[richter915]

Why go to college if you can be an IPS worker like me? I get to wear shorts all day and be lazy and not advance in my career.
exactly. I will go into this once I finish with my finals. College = important no matter how many autodidacts u cite.

[CROMagnon]

correction:
most major countries' secondary schools >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us high schools

fixed

[selftitled85]

fixed

touche.

[aCe_]

I think I'll stay in college.

[dpmurph]

1. You'll be losing four working years.

youll be losing four of the best years of your life if you dont go.

[Jason Tate]

My favorite thing about the "Bill Gates dropped out.." argument is .. Yes, he did .. BUT HE WAS GOING TO HARVARD.

That said, College is not for everyone. There are people that just shouldn't go. I knew what I wanted to do with my life (AP); however, I also knew that I wanted something to fall back on - and it would make my parents very happy. That's why I got my degree. I would of probably been fine not going .. however why make bets you're not certain of the outcome.

[richter915]

also..why start work so early? your whole life is going to be work so might as well get in some years at college having fun instead or rushing off to a job
exactly. Sure you can work from 18 onwards...but as what? A burger flipper? some douchebag at a gas station? Ya, that's what I want to do forever. The main problem with this is it looks at a specific few and makes harsh generalizations. BAD!

[richter915]

fixed
US High Schools are pretty much free day care centers. With AP exams...there is a correlation between college and HS so the importance of HS is rising...if you're smart about it...you can come into college 1/4 of the way finished.

[Broken Parachute]

5. Plenty of other people did fine
Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Quentin Tarantino, David Geffen, and Thomas Edison, among others, never graduated from college. Peter Jennings and John D. Rockefeller never finished high school.

4. You don't need to be in a classroom in order to learn something.
Truly motivated learners can teach themselves almost anything with a couple of books and an Internet connection. Want to learn a hands-on skill or trade? Consider an apprenticeship.

3. In fact, you could probably make more money if you invested your tuition.
Put $160,000--the approximate cost of a Harvard education--into municipal bonds that pay a conservative 5%, and you'll have saved more than $500,000 in 30 years. That's far more than the average college grad will accumulate in the same amount of time.

2. You won't necessarily earn less money.
College grads earn an average 62% more over the course of their careers than high school grads. But economist Robert Reischauer of the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C., argues that those numbers are skewed by the fact that smarter kids are more likely to go to college in the first place. In other words, the profitability of higher education is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

1. You'll be losing four working years.
There's an opportunity cost associated with going to college: Not only will you lose the money you'll have spent on tuition, you'll also be out the amount of money that you could have made if you'd worked during those four years. And if your family isn't wealthy enough to pay for your education on their own, you'll also owe a hefty amount in interest payments for your student loans. Perhaps more importantly, with four years of experience on your resume, you’ll be far better off when looking for work than the average 22-year-old college graduate.

-----------------------------------------------------------

New York - College is expensive. Four years at an elite university like Princeton or Harvard will set you back around $160,000.

That’s a lot of money, but consider the benefits: The professors, the coursework, the people you’ll meet and the invaluable experiences you’ll have. And, of course, the bottom line: You’ll earn more money afterward. In fact, on average, the holder of a four-year college degree will earn 62% more over their lifetimes than a typical high-school graduate. And that’s just on average. The return on investment for attending one of the nation’s 25 or so most selective colleges is far more impressive. Money well spent, right?

Well, not necessarily.

Although there is clearly a correlation between earnings and a four-year degree, a correlation isn’t the same thing as a cause. Economists like Robert Reischauer ruffled feathers several years ago by pointing out that talented, driven kids are more likely to go to college in the first place--that they succeed, in other words, because of their innate abilities, not because of their formal education. Bill Gates, who dropped out of Harvard to start Microsoft (MSFT), certainly doesn’t fit the stereotype of a low paid college dropout.

How to Get StartedIn fact, more than a couple of billionaires never graduated from college. Larry Ellison, cofounder of database giant Oracle (ORCL), dropped out of the University of Illinois and is now worth $16 billion. Fellow billionaire John Simplot, inventor of the frozen French fry, never even finished high school. Neither did Alan Gerry, who built the first cable television network in upstate New York and then sold it to Time Warner Cable for $2.8 billion.

In fact, there is plenty of evidence that what really matters is how smart you are, not where -- or even if -- you went to school. According to a number of studies, small differences in SAT scores, which you take before going to college, correlate with measurably higher incomes. And, according to a report from the National Bureau of Economic Research, the lifetime income of high-school dropouts is directly associated with their scores on a battery of intelligence tests.

By this logic, the real economic value in a Princeton degree is not the vaunted Princeton education, but in signaling potential employers that you are smart enough to get into Princeton. Actually, attending the classes is irrelevant. A few years back, we even went so far as to speculate that an entrepreneur could build a healthy businesses by charging, say $16,000, to certify qualified high-school graduates as Ivy League material. College-skippers could invest the $144,000 savings and have a nice nest-egg built up by the time they are in their mid-30s. And they could use their formative years between 18 and 22 to learn an actual trade.

In truth, most professions -- journalism, software engineering, sales, and trading stocks to name but a few -- depend far more on “on-the-job” education than on classroom learning. Until relatively recently, lawyers, architects and pharmacists learned their trade through apprenticeship, not through higher education.

Certainly some jobs -- medical doctors and university professors -- require formal education. But many do not, and between the Internet and an excellent public library system, most Americans can learn pretty much anything for a nominal fee. By all means, go to college if you want the “university experience,” but don’t spend all that cash just on the assumption that it will lead you to a higher-paying job.


---
I'm not sure of the source of this, but it seems like it makes some good points. What do you think? Is college really necessary or important?

Yeah, so those guys didn't go to college..how about all the famous people who DID.

You fuck up your life by not going to college, half of the jobs out there would rather take a college graduate than a high school graduate.

[LeftWideOpen]

most people who decide to go to college don't have $160,000 to start with.

do me a favor, go on monster.com or some job site like that and find the highest-paying job you can that DOESN'T require AT LEAST 4 years of college.

College isn't for everyone, I understand that, but don't make a life-altering decision based on some dumbass list (probably written by someone hoping to justify why he/she didn't go to college).

I have friends from high school who skipped college, and most of them have reached their maximum salary potential (around 50k). That money may seem like a lot to someone right out of highschool, but with a spouse, kids, cars, and house it's really not much at all.

I also have friends from high school that started out making 50-80k a year, but none of them are even CLOSE to their respective maximum salary potential.

Figure out what you want to do, and whether or not it requires higher education, if it does, do it. It's that simple.

just curious, since i saw that you were completing your graduate thesis in another thread ..what are you studying ?

[x togepi x]

the only downside with college is the amount of bullshit is involved in the academic system in university.

of course, I wouldn't say that's not a reason to totally skip out of going, since there's bullshit involved in almost anything.

[BarrelIsPointed]

I get the best of both worlds. I'm 19, $7000 in debt from one semester of college, and am working at a job where, if I had one, I could be supporting a family (seeing as most of the people that work there do). I'm not saying I'm content, or that it is what I want to be doing, but for now it's working for me. And yes, I am planning on going back to school, I just signed up for summer classes last week. College certainly is a great learning experience. I'm just wondering if anyone can explain to me how I cannot qualify for any financial aid when my dad is unemployed, and has been for the past year and a half (and just so happens to be going to school right now for free...yeah, I'm a little bitter)? And with that being said...I made absolutely no point to either side.

[oldwirehands]

I didn't want to go to college for awhile. I decided I wanted to last year but I didn't know what for. I applied to the local university last Wednesday. I still don't know what I want to do. Like, I don't know what I truely want to do. I always think I do but I end up thinking otherwise. I am just going to stay with my job at UPS for as long as I can because if school fails, I can always succeed with UPS. Even though, it is still something I truely wouldn't want to do.

[oldwirehands]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, a bachelor's degree is the new high school diploma. 20 years ago, you could get away with just a high school education. Not anymore.

[enj0i29]

Why go to college if you can be an IPS worker like me? I get to wear shorts all day and be lazy and not advance in my career.

God I love your username.

[FreshyFresh23]

When it all boils down to it, if you have the opportunity to go, you should go.

You will not regret it.

[richter915]

I get the best of both worlds. I'm 19, $7000 in debt from one semester of college, and am working at a job where, if I had one, I could be supporting a family (seeing as most of the people that work there do). I'm not saying I'm content, or that it is what I want to be doing, but for now it's working for me. And yes, I am planning on going back to school, I just signed up for summer classes last week. College certainly is a great learning experience. I'm just wondering if anyone can explain to me how I cannot qualify for any financial aid when my dad is unemployed, and has been for the past year and a half (and just so happens to be going to school right now for free...yeah, I'm a little bitter)? And with that being said...I made absolutely no point to either side.
maybe cause you have a well-paying job of your own. If you can support a family with ur job, you shouldn't be in that much debt.

[x togepi x]

I think it depends on what you consider a good life. I know people that would be perfectly happy having a low paying job, but I also know people that would hate every minute of it.

[greeleyxcore]

i can barely make it through high school, let alone college. Thankfully i can be a junior next year after dropping out this year.

[Jess7286]

The only reason I can really think of not going to college is due to monetary issues. I mean, if you're not ready for the workload, take a year off and travel or whatever, but eventually get back to school.

[Rock]

take a year off and travel
worst idea ever. go as soon as you get out of high school. otherwise, you're just setting yourself up for not going to college because you're going to used to not going, get a full-time job, and think you don't need to go.

[A picasso blue]

the only excellent profession i can think of that you dont need college for is being a plumber (you need skills in that area of course). you make a pretty sizeable amount of money..more than some doctors now

[Rock]

the only excellent profession i can think of that you dont need college for is being a plumber (you need skills in that area of course). you make a pretty sizeable amount of money..more than some doctors now
if you go that route, you've got to make sure you get in on the new plumbing B-)

[Jamie Pham]

unless you are freaking hot or you got an unbelievably good talent then your ass is going to college

[zizou1790]

gooo to college

[oldwirehands]

worst idea ever. go as soon as you get out of high school. otherwise, you're just setting yourself up for not going to college because you're going to used to not going, get a full-time job, and think you don't need to go.

Only someone who doesn't want to learn would do that.

This was my second year off of school. I decided I wanted to go back at the end of 2005. I didn't know what I wanted to do though. I still don't know what I want to do exactly but I applied for a local university last week and plan on going to school in the Fall. I miss homework (I'm going to regret saying that), I miss learning, I miss writing papers, I miss presentations, ect.

I'm upset that in the two years that I had off, I've done pretty much nothing but party and sort of travel. If I had more money, I would have loved to do the road trip thing. I still want to do that. Maybe next summer.

[3milesdown]

i'm a junior right now in high school. im doing pretty well getting a's and b's and also taking some ap classes such as ap calculus, statistics, and english. i mean i'm doing pretty well considering im a junior, but i was thinking about not rushing into college. i want to get a job first and also intern at a record label or something to keep me occupied. then go to a community college and transfer myself over to somewehre nice. would this be such a bad idea?

[futurcorerock]

i'm a junior right now in high school. im doing pretty well getting a's and b's and also taking some ap classes such as ap calculus, statistics, and english. i mean i'm doing pretty well considering im a junior, but i was thinking about not rushing into college. i want to get a job first and also intern at a record label or something to keep me occupied. then go to a community college and transfer myself over to somewehre nice. would this be such a bad idea?

Interning at a label might be if you aren't in college. A lot of entry-level internships aren't paying and typically are competitive.

I don't know the exact specs on what you're doing like if you have an inside connection or not, but most intern jobs are geared towards college students... since they're showing a documentable progression in education.

[futurcorerock]

Isn't the definition of "college" really narrow in the initial posters, and many posters in reply, view of reference?

I mean, yeah there's traditional 4-year-liberal-arts-college that is continually referenced in pop culture and nagged at by parental units as your only means of success.

But then again, there's tech school which a liberal arts college isn't going to help you with by teaching you psychology or greek history. Nursing academies, Auto-mechanical, Media, and other schools offer the training necessary that you wouldn't get in high school, without the bullshit of a BA.

There are plenty of roads to whatever you deem as sucessful in life, as long as you follow through and execute you should do fine. It's better than not trying.

And as for the whole price tag thing. Bullshit, again.... you don't have to go to a fine arts college to do what you love. State schools offer a (sometimes) better form at a much cheaper cost. I'm paying 8k to go to one of top 20 undergraduate business colleges in the nation. Also, some of the best research schools in the nation are public institutions... whereas the bulk of the cost of college is met when you go to a ritzy art-only college or a religious institution.

To be honest, i'd say most people have a distorted/incorrect perception of what exactly college is, be it people who never have been and are over the age, and the young adults who aren't old enough to know. One misconception is that your degree specialization in ceramics means that you're going to be making pottery for the rest of your life. No. There's a BA and a BS, Bachelors of Arts, Bachelors of Science. That's pretty much... so if you're a biochem major or a painting-bunnies major... it's the same sheet of paper on graduation day, and that's essentially all that matters to employers.. that you stuck it out through college and can vouch for it. Hell, even grad school is met with the idea that you have to be a biology major to get into med school. Wrong again. The application for grad school is just basic stuff about your undergrad credentials, the major test (GMAT, LSAT, etc.) and the like. You can get into med school with a BA or with a BS.

Also, the piece of paper isn't the only thing that's going to land you a job... it's the stuff you do in college that counts. Service organizations related in your field as well as internships and job experience that count.

Buh

[kidinthecorner]

I know I'm late, but here's a real world example: My mom and her best friend have had almost identical careers as nurses, both going through ER rounds and moving onto research. In fact, my mom's friend is more experienced and has a more impressive resume, except she has a 2 year degree instead of a 4 yr degree. That translated to a $12k difference in salaries when they were both offered THE EXACT SAME JOB.

The degree is much more about advertising than anything. All it says is "I'm good enough to get this, imagine what I can do for you." What does a high school diploma say? Next to nothing, you can get that by sleeping through the 3-7 years. By all means, you can still make good money without a college education, but you're going to work very hard for whatever money you come across.

Adding more:

Having a degree in anything is good enough. No one cares what it is or what your GPA was, they care that you have it, because it proves you had the ability to do so. You can go almost anywhere with almost any degree.

[3milesdown]

Interning at a label might be if you aren't in college. A lot of entry-level internships aren't paying and typically are competitive.

I don't know the exact specs on what you're doing like if you have an inside connection or not, but most intern jobs are geared towards college students... since they're showing a documentable progression in education.

i don't have any connections. i never really thought about competition when it comes to interns. but i mean it wouldnt be that big of a deal if i coudlnt intern since i could just do it once i'm in college. interning is just something to pass time since i love music and i wnat to learn more about it. the main problem is if skipping college for a while is a bad idea? i mean i could just go straight from highschool, i have the grades to do that, but i jsut wnat some time off school. get a job, travel, and just relax. i think i'll enjoy college more. if i do skip college for a while will my hard work in highs chool just be a waste? i dont know. people tell me i shoudlnt do this though.

[futurcorerock]

i don't have any connections. i never really thought about competition when it comes to interns. but i mean it wouldnt be that big of a deal if i coudlnt intern since i could just do it once i'm in college. interning is just something to pass time since i love music and i wnat to learn more about it. the main problem is if skipping college for a while is a bad idea? i mean i could just go straight from highschool, i have the grades to do that, but i jsut wnat some time off school. get a job, travel, and just relax. i think i'll enjoy college more. if i do skip college for a while will my hard work in highs chool just be a waste? i dont know. people tell me i shoudlnt do this though.

Most music-based internships i've heard of have always been extremely competitive because it's more appealing to young adults than say.... interning at a chemical mfg plant. A lot of related fields could tie to it, too.... marketing, pr, music, new media, etc. I responded to your reply because i'm doing the exact same thing, after sending applications out to every label, pr firm, music store in my city. I got few replies and none that made economical sense for me. However, I got one offer out of the blue in april after sending these things out in september from a PR firm asking me to jump aboard and I can happily say that I've landed an internship that way. Just make sure you have an extra source of income on top of the internship... i've never heard of a music industry internship that actually paid

Graduating high school isn't that big of a deal anymore. That is, unless you can prove that you did something worthwhile in high school... which most high schools really don't have any kind of curriculum to vouch for it. Graduating high school is the single most important thing in the job world for any position.

But you did bring up a new point... waiting for college. I know some people who did and didnt regret it, and I also know more people who regretted every second of it, just because once your in college it might be something where you absolutely want to finish out your degree in as short as time as possible. me, for example, am going to be going into my third year, intending to finish by spring of my fourth year and I can't wait to get out... the sooner the better. Plus, like someone said in the thread...a break+a lucrative job means you'll be saying "i don't need college" in a few months... but what happens if you get laid off? when you're 28 with a newborn?

[open mind]

college is less and less important these days as far as i can tell.
if you want to make money you can go to a trade school and within a year begin making more then most college grads without the huge student loans, and you've probably got better job security then the paper pushing crowd to boot.
going to college to grow up and learn about yourself is pure bullshit as far as i'm concerned, you can learn just as much in a work enviorment, or even just sitting around and chilling with friends for a few years.

[Nelsonpunkrock]

I've put off college for a couple years and at times I was one of the people who said that I wouldn't ever need to go to college. However, after about 5 years of working for little over minimum wage as a dishwasher (gross) I've finally decided that there's no way I was going to be doing that for the rest of my life and that it was time to go back to school. I've decided to become an electrician (average salary range of something like 60,000 - over 100,000 a year).

My local college offers a pre-apprenticeship program which is basically a full year of classroom instruction to get you ready for your apprenticeship. I believe that these types of programs are starting to be offered more and more for most of the trades. The higher paying, union companies are starting to require that future employees in the trades have these types of programs under their belt so that they already have a good knowledge base of the specific field of work.

So I guess what I'm saying is, that even if you're going into the trades, it's a good idea to go do the full time college classroom thing for the first year and then continue on with your apprenticeship.

I think that no matter how you look at it, education is never a bad investment.

[futurcorerock]

college is less and less important these days as far as i can tell.
if you want to make money you can go to a trade school and within a year begin making more then most college grads without the huge student loans, and you've probably got better job security then the paper pushing crowd to boot.
going to college to grow up and learn about yourself is pure bullshit as far as i'm concerned, you can learn just as much in a work enviorment, or even just sitting around and chilling with friends for a few years.
Only problem is trade schools have a vary narrowed base of education: You learn how to be a mechanic, you're going to be doing that exclusively

Four-year programs may be pricey, but in terms of getting a job there's a bit more versatility, because a lot of employers don't give a shit what you have in terms of degrees, as long as you have one and how accredited the college you attended is

That, and the misconception that you won't ever get a job after you graduate college, and then get raped by your student loans is a crock of shit. If you actually have work experience and do something outside of being a career academic, you'll have no problem getting a job. There are a lot of kids who are from middle-to-upper-middle class families who've never worked a day in their lives.... those are the kids you'll see representing the 'job market bad' statistic

Good quote from a professor: "When you look at two students, one with an A average through college and a student with a B average through college... chances are the B student will be working under the A student. Why? Because the B student spent his free time building a social network, rather than studying nonstop"

[halfamile]

Let's not forget...college is a great way to allow you to have a job that you like. unless of course this doesn't require a college education

[open mind]

Only problem is trade schools have a vary narrowed base of education: You learn how to be a mechanic, you're going to be doing that exclusively

Four-year programs may be pricey, but in terms of getting a job there's a bit more versatility, because a lot of employers don't give a shit what you have in terms of degrees, as long as you have one and how accredited the college you attended is

That, and the misconception that you won't ever get a job after you graduate college, and then get raped by your student loans is a crock of shit. If you actually have work experience and do something outside of being a career academic, you'll have no problem getting a job. There are a lot of kids who are from middle-to-upper-middle class families who've never worked a day in their lives.... those are the kids you'll see representing the 'job market bad' statistic

Good quote from a professor: "When you look at two students, one with an A average through college and a student with a B average through college... chances are the A student will be working under the A student. Why? Because the B student spent his free time building a social network, rather than studying nonstop"
if you want to be a mechanic that's not exactly a negative, and if you want to you can learn alot on the job.
you can get a job sure but in general a mechanic is going to have better job security, most office jobs can be outsourced, a mechanic's job can't.
i'm not saying one is better then the other, just that college isn't as vital a part of the formula for success as it used to be.

[richter915]

if you want to be a mechanic that's not exactly a negative, and if you want to you can learn alot on the job.
you can get a job sure but in general a mechanic is going to have better job security, most office jobs can be outsourced, a mechanic's job can't.
i'm not saying one is better then the other, just that college isn't as vital a part of the formula for success as it used to be.
well if ur idea of success is a particular and specific trade then no...most other respectable professions require at least a BS...most these days require a masters and beyond. I disagree, I think the necessity for college is greater today whereas getting by knowing a specific trade was more useful in the past.

Think about it...in the past any one could open a mom and pop store...nowadays, to run a successful small town business...you have to learn the basics of business and how to compete with huge corporations...times have changed and I think the level of education is rising with it.

[richter915]

Good quote from a professor: "When you look at two students, one with an A average through college and a student with a B average through college... chances are the A student will be working under the A student. Why? Because the B student spent his free time building a social network, rather than studying nonstop"
I think u mean the A student will be working for the B student? see, that's something I personally can't stand...how much having friends and connections means this day and age. ya, student A will work for student B until student B crashes the company cause he got the position from his dad's best friend...so then student A gets fucked over doubly. Obviously it's best to do both...but I'd rather work in a career I earned for with my effort studying then my effort socializing.

[futurcorerock]

I think u mean the A student will be working for the B student? see, that's something I personally can't stand...how much having friends and connections means this day and age. ya, student A will work for student B until student B crashes the company cause he got the position from his dad's best friend...so then student A gets fucked over doubly. Obviously it's best to do both...but I'd rather work in a career I earned for with my effort studying then my effort socializing.

Yup, as you can tell i'm the C student :D

[3milesdown]

Nelsonpunkrock (http://absolutepunk.net/member.php?u=3887) do you regret putting off college?

is it better to just "get it over with"?

[nashano1]

i recon that you should get collage over and done with straight away but the american education system confuses me as i did primary school from age 3-11 then high school age 11-16 now im 17 and in collage buy choice ill be out of school by the age of 19.