Elway vs. Favre vs. Marino

[FallOutBoyPunch]

Which one is the best quarterback of the three? Discuss.

[xbrokendownx]

Marino

/homer

never had a legit defense or a legit running game basically

[FallOutBoyPunch]

Yeah, I say Marino as well. But I know alot of people would choose Elway or Favre. I'm interested to see what people think.

[ted is lying]

WHen I grow up I want to be Brett Farve.

[IcedOpethBlind]

Marino

Laces Out

[startBBtoday]

Man, three of my least favorite QBs and i'm not quite sure why they're being compared here as they were definitely from two different eras. I like that Elways stepped out on top and that Marino knew when to walk away as his career was definitely coming apart near the end. As much I disliked him at the time, I might have to go with Marino on here even without the championships. It would be easy to go with Elway because of the two super bowls but there were definitely some years there in the late 80s/early 90s where he just wasn't that great. Plus between his o-line and having terrell davis and shannon sharpe, he definitely had it easy later in his career. I think Marino was the smarter player at QB over favre. He took less risks and threw less ints, though his completion % was worse.

I think it goes Marino, Favre, Elway. But I'm of the opinion that both Montana and Young were better than all three.

[Chris M.]

Montana

[FallOutBoyPunch]

Man, three of my least favorite QBs and i'm not quite sure why they're being compared here as they were definitely from two different eras. I like that Elways stepped out on top and that Marino knew when to walk away as his career was definitely coming apart near the end. As much I disliked him at the time, I might have to go with Marino on here even without the championships. It would be easy to go with Elway because of the two super bowls but there were definitely some years there in the late 80s/early 90s where he just wasn't that great. Plus between his o-line and having terrell davis and shannon sharpe, he definitely had it easy later in his career. I think Marino was the smarter player at QB over favre. He took less risks and threw less ints, though his completion % was worse.

I think it goes Marino, Favre, Elway. But I'm of the opinion that both Montana and Young were better than all three.

I like your argument, however, I don't know how you can say the stuff about Elway having Davis and Sharpe and then say Montana and Young are better. Young had the best receiver of all time for nearly his entire career, and Montana had Rice for half of his career.

[TheBestBet]

I'd have to go with Marino though Elway has the rings.
Favre has always been a little bit overrated, don't get me wrong though he was a real good QB.

[QuikTrig]

montana. but of these, marino. definitely not favre.

[TheBestBet]

Also if we're going for top 90's QB you would have to put Young and Aikman on the list.

[Mibabalou]

chad pennington

/ thread

[FallOutBoyPunch]

Also if we're going for top 90's QB you would have to put Young and Aikman on the list.

I wasn't. It was simply Marino vs. Elway vs. Favre. Those are the three that come up the most often in best QB discussions that I've come across. That's not to say that they ARE the best 3.

[RunInTheFront]

Jim Kelly.

[FallOutBoyPunch]

To everybody posting a QB who is not one of the three: I DIDN'T say best QB, just best QB of the three.

[startBBtoday]

I like your argument, however, I don't know how you can say the stuff about Elway having Davis and Sharpe and then say Montana and Young are better. Young had the best receiver of all time for nearly his entire career, and Montana had Rice for half of his career.

Well, Jerry Rice/Roger Craig/Ricky Watters/Brent Jones/even TO definitely helped Montana and Young, but keep in mind that Montana was Montana even before Rice came in in 1985 and I just think that Young was a more complete player than all four because of how well he could run (I know Elway could run too, but not as well). He perfectly blended being a scrambling quarterback with having an incredible completion percentage (higher than all four other qbs). Rice definitely helped him, but before Elway had all of his weapons he wasn't nearly the QB that Young, Montana, Marino or Favre was.

[startBBtoday]

Also if we're going for top 90's QB you would have to put Young and Aikman on the list.

i'd have to look into it more, but aikman would be near the bottom of a top 10 qbs of the 80s/90s

[startBBtoday]

i'd put Montana, Young, Marino, Favre, Elway, Kelly and Moon ahead of Aikman and right below him would be the non-HOF guys like Esiason, Simms, Everett, Cunningham, Testaverde, Bledsoe, Brunell and Kreig.

[abcdefghijake]

Man, three of my least favorite QBs and i'm not quite sure why they're being compared here as they were definitely from two different eras. I like that Elways stepped out on top and that Marino knew when to walk away as his career was definitely coming apart near the end. As much I disliked him at the time, I might have to go with Marino on here even without the championships. It would be easy to go with Elway because of the two super bowls but there were definitely some years there in the late 80s/early 90s where he just wasn't that great. Plus between his o-line and having terrell davis and shannon sharpe, he definitely had it easy later in his career. I think Marino was the smarter player at QB over favre. He took less risks and threw less ints, though his completion % was worse.

I think it goes Marino, Favre, Elway. But I'm of the opinion that both Montana and Young were better than all three.

wait who are your top qb's then?

[startBBtoday]

wait who are your top qb's then?

of that era? Montana, Young, Marino and Favre. I'm not sure who I'd put in the 5th spot between Moon, Elway and Kelly.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

Man, three of my least favorite QBs and i'm not quite sure why they're being compared here as they were definitely from two different eras. I like that Elways stepped out on top and that Marino knew when to walk away as his career was definitely coming apart near the end. As much I disliked him at the time, I might have to go with Marino on here even without the championships. It would be easy to go with Elway because of the two super bowls but there were definitely some years there in the late 80s/early 90s where he just wasn't that great. Plus between his o-line and having terrell davis and shannon sharpe, he definitely had it easy later in his career. I think Marino was the smarter player at QB over favre. He took less risks and threw less ints, though his completion % was worse.

I think it goes Marino, Favre, Elway. But I'm of the opinion that both Montana and Young were better than all three.

Two different eras? Marino and elway and favre all played in the same era.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

of that era? Montana, Young, Marino and Favre. I'm not sure who I'd put in the 5th spot between Moon, Elway and Kelly.

Lol.

Steve Young? You make a case against Elway for having a good oline and a RB yet you have young up there who had the best WR and a revolutionary, offensive mastermind at head coach. You've got to be kidding me.

[xbrokendownx]

Marino's heydey was nearly 10 years before Favre's

[Sic Transit Zeb]

I like your argument, however, I don't know how you can say the stuff about Elway having Davis and Sharpe and then say Montana and Young are better. Young had the best receiver of all time for nearly his entire career, and Montana had Rice for half of his career.

Whoops, didn't see this post.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

Marino's heydey was nearly 10 years before Favre's


Uhhh, favre was drafted in 91, only 8 years after Marino. So that puts him right during Marino's prime years. Yes, Brett Favre is that old.

[startBBtoday]

Lol.

Steve Young? You make a case against Elway for having a good oline and a RB yet you have young up there who had the best WR and a revolutionary, offensive mastermind at head coach. You've got to be kidding me.

Umm, George Seifert? Sorry dude, but Young was playing well after Bill Walsh was head coach and I already covered him playing with Rice. Also, a lot of guys now are playing with great receivers in the west coast offense not producing nearly as well as Steve Young. Please compare Young's numbers and Elway's numbers. Elway finished his career great, but look at his early years. Young was a better runner and a more procise passer. I have no problem with people liking Elway more because he had a longer career, but I think a lot of people just remember the last few years of his career and ignore the majority of it and you can't help but notice he got a lot better as his team got better, whereas a player like Marino played great for the majority of his career with much less behind him.

[xbrokendownx]

Marino had his best years 84-88

Favre had his best years 95-98

so yes, 10 year difference, just like i said. but nice try

[startBBtoday]

yeah, i mean, their careers definitely overlapped, but marino and elway were definitely on the downturn of their careers as Favre was starting to win his MVPs. In comparison Jay Cutler were drafted 8 years after Peyton Manning and while their careers are certainly overlapping, Cutler's best years will be while Manning/Brady are getting older.

[startBBtoday]

It actually happened, from complete over-exposure and due to everyone's utter hatred for Favre, his career is now underrated as evidenced from this poll.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

Umm, George Seifert? Sorry dude, but Young was playing well after Bill Walsh was head coach and I already covered him playing with Rice. Also, a lot of guys now are playing with great receivers in the west coast offense not producing nearly as well as Steve Young. Please compare Young's numbers and Elway's numbers. Elway finished his career great, but look at his early years. Young was a better runner and a more procise passer. I have no problem with people liking Elway more because he had a longer career, but I think a lot of people just remember the last few years of his career and ignore the majority of it and you can't help but notice he got a lot better as his team got better, whereas a player like Marino played great for the majority of his career with much less behind him.

Ahh, I guess coach was the wrong word. Anyways, Walsh laid the ground work that Seifert poached off of and I believe Walsh stayed aruond for awhile as an 'advisor or consultant'. What I'm trying to say, is Young was there when Walsh was head coach, thus taught by Walsh. After Walsh left, the offense stayed the same and Young benefited from it.


The Dolphins weren't that bad. And what stellar WRs did Elway have? Elway had a TE and that's it. No running game until AFTER TD came. Yes, the broncos won the super bowl with TD, of course. That was the missing piece. I'm sure if you added a running game to Marino, he'd have a ring too.

What I"m tryign tos ay. Is there is no way Young is a better QB than Elway. Put Young on Denver, and Young disappears. young benefited from a system and THE BEST WR OF ALL TIME.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

Marino had his best years 84-88

Favre had his best years 95-98

so yes, 10 year difference, just like i said. but nice try
10 years huh??

Uhh, Favre's 93-94 years were pretty good too. I know he didn't win MVP but that doesn't disregard how well he played. I know in 94 he had close to 4K yards and 30+ TDs. Oh and a quick look, Marino had 4K yards and 20+ tds. I know Marino wasn't young but he was still putting up great numbers well in to favre's MVP years. . Nice try buddy.

[xbrokendownx]

hey moron, can you add? i said ABOUT 10 years, and thats EXACTLY what it is!

i said IN THEIR PRIME, as in, BEST NUMBERS

Marino's best numbers were 84-88

Favre's were 95-98.

FACT.

go away.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

yeah, i mean, their careers definitely overlapped, but marino and elway were definitely on the downturn of their careers as Favre was starting to win his MVPs. In comparison Jay Cutler were drafted 8 years after Peyton Manning and while their careers are certainly overlapping, Cutler's best years will be while Manning/Brady are getting older.

Well, yes they were getting older but on the downturn? Marino still put up 4K yard seasons a few times and I know Elway was doing his usual. I know after they reach 30, they are no longer going to get better but you can't say they aren't good, ya know? They still played in the same era. Era's don't change every 10 years, at least 20-30 or unless a significant change in a rule happens. Since hte 80s-00s it's pretty much the same era.

And yeah, I'm sure Cutler will have better seasons later....maybe. The bears offense might kill him but as a bears fan, I hope not. I'm hoping they add some more excitement to the offense.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

hey moron, can you add? i said ABOUT 10 years, and thats EXACTLY what it is!

i said IN THEIR PRIME, as in, BEST NUMBERS

Marino's best numbers were 84-88

Favre's were 95-98.

FACT.

go away.

What the fuck are you talking about?

4K yards is still a memorable season. Go away.

In your dumb ass logic, Marino's only prime year was his 5K year while the rest were forgettable. Shut the fuck up.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

It actually happened, from complete over-exposure and due to everyone's utter hatred for Favre, his career is now underrated as evidenced from this poll.

I very much agree here!

[xbrokendownx]

What the fuck are you talking about?

4K yards is still a memorable season. Go away.

In your dumb ass logic, Marino's only prime year was his 5K year while the rest were forgettable. Shut the fuck up.





iin 1994, Favre had 3882 yards, 33 TDs, 13 INT. where did i say that wasnt good? you mustve missed reading comprehension class

95-98 were his best years. just like i said. he AVERAGED 4098 yards, 36 TD, 14 INT. BETTER than 1994, no?

but yea, im wrong!


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FavrBr00.htm

[Sic Transit Zeb]

iin 1994, Favre had 3882 yards, 33 TDs, 13 INT. where did i say that wasnt good? you mustve missed reading comprehension class

95-98 were his best years. just like i said. he AVERAGED 4098 yards, 36 TD, 14 INT. BETTER than 1994, no?

but yea, im wrong!


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FavrBr00.htm

Lol you said 95+, leaving out 94 thus implying 94 is forgettable. Learn how to express your ideas correctly.

[xbrokendownx]

hahahaha i said THOSE WERE HIS BEST YEARS! where did i say that 94 was "forgettable!?" why are you making up shit i did not say?

this may be Albert Pujols best year ever...does that mean his other years prior to this were "forgettable?"

[startBBtoday]

Ahh, I guess coach was the wrong word. Anyways, Walsh laid the ground work that Seifert poached off of and I believe Walsh stayed aruond for awhile as an 'advisor or consultant'. What I'm trying to say, is Young was there when Walsh was head coach, thus taught by Walsh. After Walsh left, the offense stayed the same and Young benefited from it.


The Dolphins weren't that bad. And what stellar WRs did Elway have? Elway had a TE and that's it. No running game until AFTER TD came. Yes, the broncos won the super bowl with TD, of course. That was the missing piece. I'm sure if you added a running game to Marino, he'd have a ring too.

What I"m tryign tos ay. Is there is no way Young is a better QB than Elway. Put Young on Denver, and Young disappears. young benefited from a system and THE BEST WR OF ALL TIME.

1. It seems as though you're arguing against yourself as far as Elway and Marino. First you're acting like Elway was better than Marino with "The Dolphins weren't that bad. And what steller WRs did Elway have?" Then added "I'm sure if you added a running game to Marino, he'd have a ring too" thus arguing that Marino was better than Elway? I'm confused.

2. Elway had Rod Smith during his best years, not just a TE and that's it. Also, during Elway's best years the Broncos had Terrell Davis and a stellar OLine, which definitely helped take attention off the passing game. None of this takes away from the fact that John Elway threw as many or more interceptions in 5 of his first 10 seasons and never had a 60% completion percentage in those years. I don't put a ton of stock into QB rating, but consider that until Shannon Sharpe stepped up as the best TE ever, Elway only had one year with a QB rating over 80.

3. It's fine that you have the opinion that Young would have disappeared on Denver, but I don't really know where you're getting it from. I'd say that those Super Bowl Broncos teams were better than what Young was working with in SF. This will definitely be a controversial opinoin and I realize that I'm slightly playing a devil's advocate here and that I probably don't agree with it, but who says Jerry Rice would have been the best Wide Receiver of all time if Joe Montana and Steve Young hadn't been throwing to him his entire career? Also, how do you explain the fact that Jerry Rice had three of his best years while Young was throwing to him? There was absolutely no difference in production from Montana to Young in Rice's career. Finally, Elway had a much better running game to work with during his best years with TD while Young only had Watters for three years, followed by Derek Loville, Garrison Hearst and Terry Kirby.

Well, yes they were getting older but on the downturn? Marino still put up 4K yard seasons a few times and I know Elway was doing his usual. I know after they reach 30, they are no longer going to get better but you can't say they aren't good, ya know? They still played in the same era. Era's don't change every 10 years, at least 20-30 or unless a significant change in a rule happens. Since hte 80s-00s it's pretty much the same era.

And yeah, I'm sure Cutler will have better seasons later....maybe. The bears offense might kill him but as a bears fan, I hope not. I'm hoping they add some more excitement to the offense.

This is definitely the stupidest part of this whole argument. Who cares about eras, all I was originally saying is that I didn't know why Favre was lumped in with Marino and Elway because he came along 10 years later. If 20-30 years signifies an era then do you consider Joe Montana and Tom Brady as being part of the same era? Why do eras matter? I said it as a passing comment.

[TEAMRAMROD]

:popcorn:

Marino.

[preppyak]

Jim Kelly.
Frank Reich

[preppyak]

hahahaha i said THOSE WERE HIS BEST YEARS! where did i say that 94 was "forgettable!?" why are you making up shit i did not say?
Its not accidental that I have that asshat on my ignore list...his knowledge of college basketball was atrocious back in the spring, I can't even comprehend all the stupid shit he's said about football

[Sic Transit Zeb]

=startBBtoday;54472522]1. It seems as though you're arguing against yourself as far as Elway and Marino. First you're acting like Elway was better than Marino with "The Dolphins weren't that bad. And what steller WRs did Elway have?" Then added "I'm sure if you added a running game to Marino, he'd have a ring too" thus arguing that Marino was better than Elway? I'm confused.

Yes, Elway is better than Marino. What I wa stating is they are so close in talent, if you gave Marino a running game, he'd have a ring. If you believe marino is better, I can't argue that much. marino is amazing.

2. Elway had Rod Smith during his best years, not just a TE and that's it. Also, during Elway's best years the Broncos had Terrell Davis and a stellar OLine, which definitely helped take attention off the passing game. None of this takes away from the fact that John Elway threw as many or more interceptions in 5 of his first 10 seasons and never had a 60% completion percentage in those years. I don't put a ton of stock into QB rating, but consider that until Shannon Sharpe stepped up as the best TE ever, Elway only had one year with a QB rating over 80.

Rod Smith? You think Rod Smith is the difference maker? What about Ed McCafferey? They were good WRs but I think Elway was in his prime when he was throwing to them. Not that they made Elway that much better. However, TD was the difference maker for sure. That o-line isn't as stellar as you are saying but it was very good.

3. It's fine that you have the opinion that Young would have disappeared on Denver, but I don't really know where you're getting it from. I'd say that those Super Bowl Broncos teams were better than what Young was working with in SF. This will definitely be a controversial opinoin and I realize that I'm slightly playing a devil's advocate here and that I probably don't agree with it, but who says Jerry Rice would have been the best Wide Receiver of all time if Joe Montana and Steve Young hadn't been throwing to him his entire career? Also, how do you explain the fact that Jerry Rice had three of his best years while Young was throwing to him? There was absolutely no difference in production from Montana to Young in Rice's career. Finally, Elway had a much better running game to work with during his best years with TD while Young only had Watters for three years, followed by Derek Loville, Garrison Hearst and Terry Kirby.

Yes, Jerry Rice would still be the best WR of all time. However, having two great QBs throw to him helps. Again, SF would beat Denver IMO but who will ever know ha. As for Rice's stats going up with Young, that's just different QB style. Montana was notorious for spreading the ball around, and Rice actually had 100 receptions in Montana's last year as starter.

This is definitely the stupidest part of this whole argument. Who cares about eras, all I was originally saying is that I didn't know why Favre was lumped in with Marino and Elway because he came along 10 years later. If 20-30 years signifies an era then do you consider Joe Montana and Tom Brady as being part of the same era? Why do eras matter? I said it as a passing comment.

Thank you. I thought it was stupid. Yes, these QBs are apart of the same era. I would not say Montana and Brady are being they NEVEr played a significant portion of their careers during the same years. Montana was long retired before Brady was ever in the NFL. that's a bit of a ludicrous statement.

[Drew Beringer]

fuck Brett Favre, go Joe Montana

[xbrokendownx]

Rod Smith ranks 19th all time in receiving yards and 15th all time in receptions

[startBBtoday]

Can I just ask you to make an argument as to how John Elway was better than Dan Marino or Steve Young or Brett Favre or Joe Montana or even Warren Moon? Cause I really don't get it. I understand that he had 6 great seasons, but what about the first 10 when he was very very pedestrian? And what honestly sets those last 6 seasons apart from the rest of those QBs I mentioned other than Super Bowls? His completion percentage is FAR worse than the rest, he never had a 30 TD season, his interceptions were always in double digits, his INT % is higer than Marino, Montana and Young, he's no. 1 all time in sacks, he only threw for 4000 yards once, his TD% is lower than all of those qbs I mentioned and he has a career QB rating in the 70s (high 70s but still) while Montana and Young are in the 90s and all the rest are in the 80s. Other than the 2 Super Bowl wins, what is it? What don't I get? Is Aikman even better than Elway cause he has three?

[Indoor Living]

Fuck Elway vs. Favre vs. Marino.

Ryan Leaf 4 lyfe.

[startBBtoday]

weirdest thing i've learned today, neil o'donnell was really good at not throwing interceptions.

[Dubui_209]

It goes Montana, Aikman, Elway, Marino, Favre. If Marino had a super bowl....

[startBBtoday]

i seriously give up if people are putting aikman in here, especially over marino and not even including young.

[Dubui_209]

Can I just ask you to make an argument as to how John Elway was better than Dan Marino or Steve Young or Brett Favre or Joe Montana or even Warren Moon? Cause I really don't get it. I understand that he had 6 great seasons, but what about the first 10 when he was very very pedestrian? And what honestly sets those last 6 seasons apart from the rest of those QBs I mentioned other than Super Bowls? His completion percentage is FAR worse than the rest, he never had a 30 TD season, his interceptions were always in double digits, his INT % is higer than Marino, Montana and Young, he's no. 1 all time in sacks, he only threw for 4000 yards once, his TD% is lower than all of those qbs I mentioned and he has a career QB rating in the 70s (high 70s but still) while Montana and Young are in the 90s and all the rest are in the 80s. Other than the 2 Super Bowl wins, what is it? What don't I get? Is Aikman even better than Elway cause he has three?
Did you take into consideration the Broncos were a running team? Doesn't help the interceptions point much, but it protects from some of those mediocre td stats. If Marino had a super bowl I would probably move him up. To 3 behind Montana and Aikman.

[theguy77]

brett favre has the best arm of the three. marino had the smarts. and elway... elway was just an average QB that transformed into super saiyan when it meant winning or losing the big games. hahaha

seriously there is like no quarterback other than elway who got to consistently keep their starting job after that many seasons with a quarterback rating in the 70s. thats performance you expect out of a backup, not a starter -- even the lesser starting quarterbacks are expected to at LEAST post ratings in the low 80s.

[startBBtoday]

brett favre has the best arm of the three. marino had the smarts. and elway... elway was just an average QB that transformed into super saiyan when it meant winning or losing the big games. hahaha

seriously there is like no quarterback other than elway who got to consistently keep their starting job after that many seasons with a quarterback rating in the 70s. thats performance you expect out of a backup, not a starter -- even the lesser starting quarterbacks are expected to at LEAST post ratings in the low 80s.

lets also not forget that elway lost two super bowls in a row early in his career, and another in 89 which he obviously made up for by winning two in his later career when he had a lot more help, but still.

and yeah, i think the opinion changed on elway pretty dramatically in the last 5 years of his career, this poll would be a lot different probably even in 1998 when his career was fresh in everyone's minds.

[startBBtoday]

Did you take into consideration the Broncos were a running team? Doesn't help the interceptions point much, but it protects from some of those mediocre td stats. If Marino had a super bowl I would probably move him up. To 3 behind Montana and Aikman.

sorry, but aikman? really? can you explain that?

[startBBtoday]

does everyone that voted for john elway on here realize that the broncos drafted a quarterback in the first round in 1992, during Elway's "peak" years?

[Dubui_209]

sorry, but aikman? really? can you explain that?
3 super bowls.

[rcrook]

3 super bowls.

X-) look who he had around him. that's like saying robert horry is better than jordan because he has 7 rings. sure aikman played a much bigger role in winning his rings but it's not like aikman had a bunch of goons around him on both sides of the ball. I mean Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have won more Super Bowls than Marino and the same amount as Favre so that argument only holds so much weight.

[Dubui_209]

X-) look who he had around him. that's like saying robert horry is better than jordan because he has 7 rings. sure aikman played a much bigger role in winning his rings but it's not like aikman had a bunch of goons around him on both sides of the ball. I mean Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have won more Super Bowls than Marino and the same amount as Favre so that argument only holds so much weight.
Thats true. Great points, but I just don't think Marino can be #1 without winning a super bowl. I'm not going to say he wasn't great because he was. I still have him before Favre.

[startBBtoday]

Aikman was a good quarterback on a great team. That's it, if I weren't in bed on my phone id probably bring up a bunch of stats proving that, but really, those teams were built on emmitt and the defense. Aikman didn't throw nearly as much as any of these other qbs.

Is Steve Young ignored just because he became a star late in his career? I'm not even the biggest Young fan and I think its crazy how much people ignore him as far as great qbs go.

I'll also say before I go to bed that John Elway really might be the most overrated player in any sport right behind Cal Ripken who gets thrown into best of categories because he went out on a really high note. Everyone remembers him as the star of back to back superbowl winning teams ignoring his career before he was 33. Favre has pretty much had the complete opposite career having his best years and super bowl years while he was still young.

[FallOutBoyPunch]

3. This will definitely be a controversial opinoin and I realize that I'm slightly playing a devil's advocate here and that I probably don't agree with it, but who says Jerry Rice would have been the best Wide Receiver of all time if Joe Montana and Steve Young hadn't been throwing to him his entire career? Also, how do you explain the fact that Jerry Rice had three of his best years while Young was throwing to him? There was absolutely no difference in production from Montana to Young in Rice's career.

Why Rice is the best receiver of all-time?
He had a pro-bowl year at the age of 40 playing with Gannon and the Raiders. His QBs helped him, but in no way made Rice who he was.

[xbrokendownx]

personally, i think Joe Naimath is the most overrated athlete in history

[FallOutBoyPunch]

I just read something that said Rice was the receiver during 5 MVP seasons of quarterbacks: 2 for Montana, 2 for Young, and 1 for Gannon. Rice was incredible, and I definitely think he played an important role in making those quarterbacks who they were. There is no way Gannon would have won MVP in '02 without Rice at WR. And Rice was 40!

[FallOutBoyPunch]

Also, I can't understand how Elway is winning this poll. Apparently Superbowl rings mean everything.

[inthemidst]

Out of these three: Elway. It's all about the rings, and he's got two more than Marino and one more than Favre.

[xbrokendownx]

Out of these three: Elway. It's all about the rings, and he's got two more than Marino and one more than Favre.




no! its not all about the rings!

answer me this- was trent dilfer a better QB than dan marino? is eli manning a better QB than Dan Marino?

[FallOutBoyPunch]

Out of these three: Elway. It's all about the rings, and he's got two more than Marino and one more than Favre.

Rings are a team effort.

[inthemidst]

no! its not all about the rings!

answer me this- was trent dilfer a better QB than dan marino? is eli manning a better QB than Dan Marino?

I'm guessing that Dan Marino was your answer? Haha! I really wanted to say Marino because of his skill set (i.e. pin point accuracy, quick release, top-notch throwing power), but he has no ring. It's unfortunate, but the way we measure athletes is by wins and losses. It's the same reason why Alex Rodriguez was never named MVP when with the Rangers. Even if he was the best player at the time, he was on a losing team.

If you're basing it off of skill set, then Marino has the attributes as a QB, but when comparing it based off of key wins and losses, then you have to go with Elway. It's just the way it is...

[xbrokendownx]

I'm guessing that Dan Marino was your answer? Haha! I really wanted to say Marino because of his skill set (i.e. pin point accuracy, quick release, top-notch throwing power), but he has no ring. It's unfortunate, but the way we measure athletes is by wins and losses. It's the same reason why Alex Rodriguez was never named MVP when with the Rangers. Even if he was the best player at the time, he was on a losing team.

If you're basing it off of skill set, then Marino has the attributes as a QB, but when comparing it based off of ky wins and losses, then you have to go with Elway. It's just the way it is...





uhhh first of all, Alex Rodriguez DID win an MVP with the Rangers in 2003....

second of all, how is it Marino's fault he never won a super bowl? he played on teams with shit defenses and no running game

[preppyak]

Out of these three: Elway. It's all about the rings, and he's got two more than Marino and one more than Favre.
See, this is the problem with ESPN spewing 24/7 coverage year round...they have to create cliches (QB's are measured by W's and rings, etc) that people eat up as truth.

Elway was a career 56% passer...Jake Delhomme, the abortion of a QB he has been this season, has completed 56% of his passes so far. Dan Orlovsky finished last season as a 56% passer. The difference between being a 56% passer and being a 60% (Marino) or higher (Favre, Aikman, Young, etc) over 5000 passes is a big deal
It's unfortunate, but the way I measure athletes is by wins and losses.
fixed

Don't lump everyone into the same category of thinking as you...people who eat up what analysts spoon feed you think Super Bowls mean everything to a QB, when a QB really can be quite irrelevant to winning it all (Dilfer w/ Ravens...Roethlisberger v Seattler where they won in spite of him, etc)

[inthemidst]

Rings are a team effort.

You speak truth, friend, but the most difficult/important position on a football team is QB; everyone knows that.

[inthemidst]

See, this is the problem with ESPN spewing 24/7 coverage year round...they have to create cliches (QB's are measured by W's and rings, etc) that people eat up as truth.

Elway was a career 56% passer...Jake Delhomme, the abortion of a QB he has been this season, has completed 56% of his passes so far. Dan Orlovsky finished last season as a 56% passer. The difference between being a 56% passer and being a 60% (Marino) or higher (Favre, Aikman, Young, etc) over 5000 passes is a big deal

The difference is that these QB's won the game when they had to. Delhomme is a crappy QB, but he got it done in the playoffs that season, and almost won the super bowl. Marino did not. That's the difference. To reiterate, based on skill-set, I would pick Marino, but I have to go with who got it done when it needed to get done.

[inthemidst]

uhhh first of all, Alex Rodriguez DID win an MVP with the Rangers in 2003....

second of all, how is it Marino's fault he never won a super bowl? he played on teams with shit defenses and no running game

Oh, my bad dude. For some reason, I don't remember that; I just vividly recall a Baseball Tonight episode where they were discussing why A-Rod wasn't going to win MVP.

[screamoutmyname]

John Elway, obviously.

I might've said Brett Favre two years ago before he became a douche

[xbrokendownx]

seriously i cannot fathom how people are voting for John Elway in this

[preppyak]

The difference is that these QB's won the game when they had to. Delhomme is a crappy QB, but he got it done in the playoffs that season, and almost won the super bowl. Marino did not. That's the difference. To reiterate, based on skill-set, I would pick Marino, but I have to go with who got it done when it needed to get done.
You'll be stunned to learn this...but if your team has no defense, its very difficult to make it to the Super Bowl, much less win it. From 1986-1995 (so Marino's main part of his career), the Dolphins defense was pretty awful. They were in the bottom 10 in points allowed 6 of those years, with 4 of them being in the bottom 5, and only once were they in the top 10. So Marino literally had to score a TD more than any other QB to win games for his team

In their Super Bowl year in 1985, they were basically the worst team against the rush in the league.
Delhomme is a crappy QB, but he got it done in the playoffs that season, and almost won the super bowl. Marino did not.
Look up 1985, Super Bowl XIX...Marino's been to a Super Bowl and lost like Delhomme. And in that loss, the defense allowed the most yards ever, and their running game had 25 yards.

[inthemidst]

You'll be stunned to learn this...but if your team has no defense, its very difficult to make it to the Super Bowl, much less win it. From 1986-1995 (so Marino's main part of his career), the Dolphins defense was pretty awful. They were in the bottom 10 in points allowed 6 of those years, in the bottom 5 for 4 of those years, and only once were they in the top 10. So Marino literally had to score a TD more than any other QB to win games for his team

Look up 1985

Ok, good point. You win. I give. You really know your sports, bro.

[preppyak]

Ok, good point. You win. I give. You really know your sports, bro.
This argument comes up a lot...thought Favre usually isn't in the list...we've had it here at least 3 or 4 times I'm sure. Its truly one of those scenarios where if you put Marino on that Denver team, or on that 49ers team, he's got the same hardware as the other guys, if not more

From a personal standpoint I prefer Montana and Young...I was a huge 49ers fan back then

[inthemidst]

You'll be stunned to learn this...but if your team has no defense, its very difficult to make it to the Super Bowl, much less win it. From 1986-1995 (so Marino's main part of his career), the Dolphins defense was pretty awful. They were in the bottom 10 in points allowed 6 of those years, in the bottom 5 for 4 of those years, and only once were they in the top 10. In their Super Bowl year in 1985, they were basically the worst team against the rush in the league.

So Marino literally had to score a TD more than any other QB to win games for his team

Look up 1985, Super Bowl XIX...Marino's been to a Super Bowl and lost like Delhomme. And in that loss, the defense allowed the most yards ever, and their running game had 25 yards.

How's this for a comparison:

Who would you rather have as your QB?

Ben Roethlissberger or John Elway?

Two very similar style QB's with two super bowl rings, and ironically have the same number too...Answer at your own risk lol.

[M.C COB]

http://www.classicbuffalo.com/images/FlutieFlakes.jpg

[startBBtoday]

I really thought I was going crazy or something flipping out over people picking Elway. I think a lot of people just have no idea what his stats look like and only remember he won those two Super Bowls. I don't think many people even remember he lost three before that.

I guarantee that if Brett Favre had stayed retired the first time, he'd be at the top of this list, "cause of the ring, bro." I would barely even be able to argue that. Favre was playing at almost the same level as Marino his whole career and was the best player on a Super Bowl winning team.

I think the only reason I brought Montana and Yong into this conversation is because I actually liked them as players and hated pretty much everyone else in this discussion.

As for Elway vs. Roethlisberger, Roethlisberger's career has started off way better than Elway's stats wise and with team success, so if we're taking Roethlisberger's first five years vs Elway's, its Roethlisberger no question. Notice I don't refer to him as "Ben."

[Sic Transit Zeb]

Can I just ask you to make an argument as to how John Elway was better than Dan Marino or Steve Young or Brett Favre or Joe Montana or even Warren Moon? Cause I really don't get it. I understand that he had 6 great seasons, but what about the first 10 when he was very very pedestrian? And what honestly sets those last 6 seasons apart from the rest of those QBs I mentioned other than Super Bowls? His completion percentage is FAR worse than the rest, he never had a 30 TD season, his interceptions were always in double digits, his INT % is higer than Marino, Montana and Young, he's no. 1 all time in sacks, he only threw for 4000 yards once, his TD% is lower than all of those qbs I mentioned and he has a career QB rating in the 70s (high 70s but still) while Montana and Young are in the 90s and all the rest are in the 80s. Other than the 2 Super Bowl wins, what is it? What don't I get? Is Aikman even better than Elway cause he has three?

Well I don't think Elway is better than Montana. Elway is better tahn Young IMO as for Favre, very hard call. As annoying as the last few years ahve been with Favre, I'd take him over Elway as the better QB.

The reason why I take Elway over Young, is because Young was a system QB. I remember reading a memoir of some sort, I think it was in the book Micheal Lewis wrote about Brady(Moving the chains), in the back he interviewed Walsh. Walsh of course talked about Young. Walsh said himself that YOung was the perfect QB for his system. I hope this makes sense, I'm in ah ury due to being in class.

My point is, if you put Young in Denver, no way Denver makes it to the super bowl UNTIL they get TD.

If you put Elway on SF, SF still wins super bowl(s). Get my point? I say Elway is a better player being he is harder to replace.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

I really thought I was going crazy or something flipping out over people picking Elway. I think a lot of people just have no idea what his stats look like and only remember he won those two Super Bowls. I don't think many people even remember he lost three before that.

I guarantee that if Brett Favre had stayed retired the first time, he'd be at the top of this list, "cause of the ring, bro." I would barely even be able to argue that. Favre was playing at almost the same level as Marino his whole career and was the best player on a Super Bowl winning team.

I think the only reason I brought Montana and Yong into this conversation is because I actually liked them as players and hated pretty much everyone else in this discussion.

As for Elway vs. Roethlisberger, Roethlisberger's career has started off way better than Elway's stats wise and with team success, so if we're taking Roethlisberger's first five years vs Elway's, its Roethlisberger no question. Notice I don't refer to him as "Ben."

I totally agree with Favre. Favre should of stayed retired and I hope it doens't always hurt his greatness. I will agree to disagree about Young being ahead of Elway. :)

[startBBtoday]

Well I don't think Elway is better than Montana. Elway is better tahn Young IMO as for Favre, very hard call. As annoying as the last few years ahve been with Favre, I'd take him over Elway as the better QB.

The reason why I take Elway over Young, is because Young was a system QB. I remember reading a memoir of some sort, I think it was in the book Micheal Lewis wrote about Brady(Moving the chains), in the back he interviewed Walsh. Walsh of course talked about Young. Walsh said himself that YOung was the perfect QB for his system. I hope this makes sense, I'm in ah ury due to being in class.

My point is, if you put Young in Denver, no way Denver makes it to the super bowl UNTIL they get TD.

If you put Elway on SF, SF still wins super bowl(s). Get my point? I say Elway is a better player being he is harder to replace.

if you're calling Young a system quarterback then you're calling Montana a system quarterback and Montana was doing the system when the west coast offense was even newer to the NFL. Also, Young was putting up better numbers as a starter than Montana was. I don't really know why people separate Montana and Young so much and believe that Montana was WAY better than Young.

I still don't understand how a Quarterback that was mediocre for the majority of his career can be called better than someone who was putting up quarterback ratings in the 100s 6 years out of his years as a starting quarterback through two head coaches too (don't forget about Mooch). That team also had some horrible running backs after Ricky Watters left, making defenses concentrate even harder on the passing game.

Obviously Jerry Rice played a huge part in both Montana and Young's career, but Shannon Sharpe and Terrell Davis played a huge part in Elway's career, as did Rod Smith and Ed McCafferey.

[Sic Transit Zeb]

if you're calling Young a system quarterback then you're calling Montana a system quarterback and Montana was doing the system when the west coast offense was even newer to the NFL. Also, Young was putting up better numbers as a starter than Montana was. I don't really know why people separate Montana and Young so much and believe that Montana was WAY better than Young.

I still don't understand how a Quarterback that was mediocre for the majority of his career can be called better than someone who was putting up quarterback ratings in the 100s 6 years out of his years as a starting quarterback through two head coaches too (don't forget about Mooch). That team also had some horrible running backs after Ricky Watters left, making defenses concentrate even harder on the passing game.

Obviously Jerry Rice played a huge part in both Montana and Young's career, but Shannon Sharpe and Terrell Davis played a huge part in Elway's career, as did Rod Smith and Ed McCafferey.

Whatever man. I really don't care anymore.

[bigoleP33N]

I said Brett Favre for one reason. He has majority of the records set by a quarterback in the NFL. And he just set one for carrier starts? That's unbelievable if you can start 271 straight regular season games without serious injury. Plus he has a ring. Yeah Elway may have two but Favre has put up better numbers in my opinion. Most of the records were Marino's anyways the Favre broke. That's the only reason why I had to say Favre.


Let the hate begin now.

[preppyak]

I think the argument against Brett Favre is that he threw too many interceptions, in comparison to Marino

Favre: 467TD to 310INT (and growing)
Marino: 420TD to 252INT

But Favre also has a 62% completion percentage with about 1000 more passes than Marino (who had a 60% comp)...they both averaged about 34 throws a game. I could buy Brett Favre, from a purely statistical standpoint, being even or a little superior...but he's also got a lot of seasons with 25TD and 20 INT. Depends what you consider more important...being efficient (Marino) or bigger numbers (Favre)

[TEAMRAMROD]

Efficiency is tops in my book.

[FallOutBoyPunch]

I think the argument against Brett Favre is that he threw too many interceptions, in comparison to Marino

Favre: 467TD to 310INT (and growing)
Marino: 420TD to 252INT

But Favre also has a 62% completion percentage with about 1000 more passes than Marino (who had a 60% comp)...they both averaged about 34 throws a game. I could buy Brett Favre, from a purely statistical standpoint, being even or a little superior...but he's also got a lot of seasons with 25TD and 20 INT. Depends what you consider more important...being efficient (Marino) or bigger numbers (Favre)

I think the fairest way to figure it though, is TD/Int ratio, or even just subtract all interceptions from TDs. This would put Marino ahead of Favre. The only negative of this is that it relies solely on pure stats and does not take into account situational play. That's what makes or breaks a QB in my opinion. From a situational standpoint, ie. game winning drives, etc.. Favre wins. Ultimately, however, I truly do think the INTs sap Favre's legend.

[newfoundmichael]

Marino- stats, no ring

Elway - ring, not "amazing" stats

Favre - ring, every statistical QB record owner. out of these three it's simple.

[newfoundmichael]

I think the fairest way to figure it though, is TD/Int ratio, or even just subtract all interceptions from TDs. This would put Marino ahead of Favre. The only negative of this is that it relies solely on pure stats and does not take into account situational play. That's what makes or breaks a QB in my opinion. From a situational standpoint, ie. game winning drives, etc.. Favre wins. Ultimately, however, I truly do think the INTs sap Favre's legend.

It was part of Favre's game to gunsling though...Favre and Marino had different game plans, and part of what made Favre so great is that he never put on the breaks and could sometimes throw into triple coverage and hit his receiver.

[FallOutBoyPunch]

Marino- stats, no ring

Elway - ring, not "amazing" stats

Favre - ring, every statistical QB record owner. out of these three it's simple.

Exactly. Every statistical QB record. INCLUDING INTERCEPTIONS.

[FallOutBoyPunch]

It was part of Favre's game to gunsling though...Favre and Marino had different game plans, and part of what made Favre so great is that he never put on the breaks and could sometimes throw into triple coverage and hit his receiver.

So it makes Favre great that he made bad decisions sometimes that helped the other team instead of his own? While I agree they have different styles, I think this is a poor argument defending poor play.

[xbrokendownx]

Favre has also played 33 (and growing) more games than Marino, thats why he has "every statistical QB record"

blaming Marino for not having a ring is silly. i HATE that argument

[Brand-new-123]

Kyle Boller

[rcrook]

Look at the kids Profile Pic and Usertitle and you can guess who he is going to choose before you even read his post.

[newfoundmichael]

Favre has also played 33 (and growing) more games than Marino, thats why he has "every statistical QB record"

blaming Marino for not having a ring is silly. i HATE that argument


Well the fact that he played in 33 more games than Marino (and growing) is just another reason why one could consider him a better QB. He's played so many seasons. Some may say he's worn out his welcome (to which I would agree) but there is something to say about his consecutive games streak...something that Marino never approached.

[preppyak]

Favre has also played 33 (and growing) more games than Marino, thats why he has "every statistical QB record"
But when you break down their per-game averages, they are stunningly similar. Marino's got a better TD:INT ratio out of all of that...but Favre was also more effective in terms of completion percentage, and they have similar #'s in yards per throw.

Basically, here is what you'd get from them in a game

Marino: 21/35 for 255yds, 1.7TD, 1.0INT, 86.4 rating

Favre: 21/34 for 240ish yds, 1.7TD, 1.1INT, 85.6 rating

So you get a little more from Marino game to game...but, aside from maybe yards, its basically a dead heat

[Chris M.]

Well the fact that he played in 33 more games than Marino (and growing) is just another reason why one could consider him a better QB. He's played so many seasons. Some may say he's worn out his welcome (to which I would agree) but there is something to say about his consecutive games streak...something that Marino never approached.

Favre's only played 33 more games than Marino because Dan knew when it was time to walk away, we all know Brett doesn't.

[JunkBondTrader]

favre for me.

[preppyak]

Favre's only played 33 more games than Marino because Dan knew when it was time to walk away, we all know Brett doesn't.
Yeah...his last two seasons, statistically, were getting bad. If he had played another, he may well have had 15 TD, 30 INT

[newfoundmichael]

John Elway, obviously.

I might've said Brett Favre two years ago before he became a douche

Ah, I forgot that a players douche-ness affected how great of a player they were.

[newfoundmichael]

Favre's only played 33 more games than Marino because Dan knew when it was time to walk away, we all know Brett doesn't.


Would you agree that if Favre has a great year statistically this year and helps bring the Vikings to the playoffs that he made the right decision to come back? The Vikings are miles better off with him than Tavaris Jackson at QB.

[preppyak]

Ah, I forgot that a players douche-ness affected how great of a player they were.
It'd be the deciding factor for me between two close people...like between Marino and Favre for example

[xbrokendownx]

Favre is not going to have a good year statistically because they arent going to make him throw all that much

[screamoutmyname]

Ah, I forgot that a players douche-ness affected how great of a player they were.



lol... as i was saying, i used to love favre, but he's kind of an ass now... im not sure what you aren't understanding about this.

[FallOutBoyPunch]

I never thought, in my wildest dreams, that Elway would be winning this. I really thought it'd be between Marino and Favre with Marino winning since Favre has been an asshole the past 2-3 years.

[startBBtoday]

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize how not good john elway was the first 10 years

[newfoundmichael]

It'd be the deciding factor for me between two close people...like between Marino and Favre for example


The fact that you said "John Elway, obviously" made it sound like it wasn't a close decision for you...so it couldn't have been that close.


EDIT: My bad, you didn't make the original post. Whoops.

[newfoundmichael]

lol... as i was saying, i used to love favre, but he's kind of an ass now... im not sure what you aren't understanding about this.

I totally understand that Favre is acting like an ass now. I would understand more than most being a Packers fan and all...I can't stand the guy as of late.

That being said, him being an ass doesn't change the fact that he is still one of if not the best quarterbacks of all time. I don't blame him at all for coming back this year: team full of talent, extremely similar system to what he is used to, best back in the game to open up the passing, etc. They were one good QB away from being a contender and he took the job.

There is nothing wrong in my eyes with him coming back again--he's still got talent. What was wrong with it was the way he handled it by retiring and coming back time after time.

[QuikTrig]

from some of the results of the "best all-time ___ ever" baseball polls, i am not surprised in the bit that elway is leading this thing.

[screamoutmyname]

I totally understand that Favre is acting like an ass now. I would understand more than most being a Packers fan and all...I can't stand the guy as of late.

That being said, him being an ass doesn't change the fact that he is still one of if not the best quarterbacks of all time. I don't blame him at all for coming back this year: team full of talent, extremely similar system to what he is used to, best back in the game to open up the passing, etc. They were one good QB away from being a contender and he took the job.

There is nothing wrong in my eyes with him coming back again--he's still got talent. What was wrong with it was the way he handled it by retiring and coming back time after time.

yeah, he was great, but i think he needs to stick with his decision... i can excuse it the first time, but not the second.

[theguy77]

i'd probably have to take favre in this thread because i love his arm. he forces more throws than any other QB in the NFL, but he has the accuracy and the power in every throw he makes to complete a much higher percentage of forced throws than other quarterbacks as well. the reason he forces so many is because he knows he can make a lot of those forced throws, haha. sometimes i see him fit the football in between two or three defenders in a breadbasket sized space, right on time, into the receiver's numbers and i am just stunned.

[newfoundmichael]

yeah, he was great, but i think he needs to stick with his decision... i can excuse it the first time, but not the second.

i can understand that for sure. i just don't think that his antics about retiring/not retiring affect how great of a QB he was/is.

[theguy77]

haha i watched elway's "the drive" and there were only two throws that were good decisions on the whole thing. there was another one where mark jackson was WIDE open and in watching from a different angle that was the wide receiver doing a great job on his route. but everything else on that 98 yard drive was either a scramble, a bad decision that got lucky, or a bad decision that was thrown out of bounds. however, important to take into account is that happened very early in his career, and also that it takes skill to have an accurate enough arm in a pressure situation to actually complete throws that shouldnt have been completed.

[startBBtoday]

Yeah, but then he lost the superbowl

[theguy77]

i'd probably have to take favre in this thread because i love his arm. he forces more throws than any other QB in the NFL, but he has the accuracy and the power in every throw he makes to complete a much higher percentage of forced throws than other quarterbacks as well. the reason he forces so many is because he knows he can make a lot of those forced throws, haha. sometimes i see him fit the football in between two or three defenders in a breadbasket sized space, right on time, into the receiver's numbers and i am just stunned.

AAAAAAND an example of this won a game today with 2 seconds to go. there were 2 defenders RIGHT on that guy, in the VERY back of the endzone and yet... they didnt have a chance to break up that pass. yeah... im pretty sure about my decision in this thread. haha

[theguy77]

everyone saw this like 8 times but im posting it anyway:

un3B7Og-FS0