Mvp

[Scott Weber]

Nash.



Had to be done.

[itsjdiggity]

i thought this thread was for Barbosa

[ActorInThisPlay]

Ya Goddamn Right! Kobe sure looked an MVP tonight didn't he?

[somethingyellow]

:D yes it did

[bigmike]

i still think, based solely on regular seasons, a great case could have been made for a co-mvp award.

[mikeford]

the suns MVP for the series is smush parker for not showing up other than the game 4 steal.

[fromwithin]

i still think, based solely on regular seasons, a great case could have been made for a co-mvp award.

a ballhog like Kobe should never get the mvp award. nash raised his ppg and averaged over 10 assists. a true MVP (like Nash) makes everyone better around him. look at what happened to boris diaw, that right there should be enough to convince you of what a player nash is.

[bigmike]

a ballhog like Kobe should never get the mvp award. nash raised his ppg and averaged over 10 assists. a true MVP (like Nash) makes everyone better around him. look at what happened to boris diaw, that right there should be enough to convince you of what a player nash is.
okay, well there's no need to regurgitate a ridiculous argument that went on far too long at the end of the season as it is. in my opinion, an mvp does what's needed to win. for kobe that's ball hogging, for nash, it's creating. Not to mention that boris diaw played in atlanta where they don't exactly manage their players that well as it is. he should have been getting more time with the hawks than he was getting.

[Drew Beringer]

Clippers in 6.

[looksthatkillbn]

a ballhog like Kobe should never get the mvp award. nash raised his ppg and averaged over 10 assists. a true MVP (like Nash) makes everyone better around him. look at what happened to boris diaw, that right there should be enough to convince you of what a player nash is.

Let us not forget that a true MVP also plays defense...

[wessa]

okay, well there's no need to regurgitate a ridiculous argument that went on far too long at the end of the season as it is. in my opinion, an mvp does what's needed to win. for kobe that's ball hogging, for nash, it's creating. Not to mention that boris diaw played in atlanta where they don't exactly manage their players that well as it is. he should have been getting more time with the hawks than he was getting.

so you are saying an mvp does what it takes to win? well the suns won 9 more games than the lakers, thus nash is the mvp.

[bigmike]

so you are saying an mvp does what it takes to win? well the suns won 9 more games than the lakers, thus nash is the mvp.
yes, but the lakers were regarded as less of a team before the year than the suns were. point is, both guys deserved it, in my opinion, and it warranted a co-mvp. this discussion however is tired and should definitely not be discussed anymore.

[Groogz]

I can't see how anyone can argue that Kobe Bryant was more valuable to his team this year than Nash. Nash is clearly the MVP because he makes his entire team better every year! This year proved it once again. Fuck yeah Nash and fuck Kobe!

[bigmike]

I can't see how anyone can argue that Kobe Bryant was more valuable to his team this year than Nash. Nash is clearly the MVP because he makes his entire team better every year! This year proved it once again. Fuck yeah Nash and fuck Kobe!
did you have the lakers in the 7th spot and taking the 2 seed to game 7 of the first round of the playoffs, before the season started? alright. and don't give a boris diaw retort, because he could have been a good player in atlanta, but they're personnel decisions are questionable at best. he deserved more playing time in atlanta.
I don't know how people DON'T see how valuable kobe is to the lakers just because he plays a different style of ball than nash. he's not a PG, he's not supposed to average 8-10 assists a game. and he had to shoot the ball, because honestly, are you having kwame brown or smush parker going to try and being the dominant offensive force? didn't think so.

point is, people just love to hate of kobe and while i don't like the lakers, or kobe for that matter, the dude single handedly led his shitty team into the playoffs.

Before the season, if you would have been told that someone had this stat line and wasn't the mvp, everyone would be shocked:
35.4 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 4.5 APG, 1.5 SPG, and as a guard shoot 45.1% from the field and 83.4% FT. All while taking a shitty team to the playoffs who's other 4 leading scorers were Lamar Odom, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm and Brian Cook.

Co-MVP, imo.

[sweethypocrisy]

did you have the lakers in the 7th spot and taking the 2 seed to game 7 of the first round of the playoffs, before the season started? alright. and don't give a boris diaw retort, because he could have been a good player in atlanta, but they're personnel decisions are questionable at best. he deserved more playing time in atlanta.
I don't know how people DON'T see how valuable kobe is to the lakers just because he plays a different style of ball than nash. he's not a PG, he's not supposed to average 8-10 assists a game. and he had to shoot the ball, because honestly, are you having kwame brown or smush parker going to try and being the dominant offensive force? didn't think so.

point is, people just love to hate of kobe and while i don't like the lakers, or kobe for that matter, the dude single handedly led his shitty team into the playoffs.

Before the season, if you would have been told that someone had this stat line and wasn't the mvp, everyone would be shocked:
35.4 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 4.5 APG, 1.5 SPG, and as a guard shoot 45.1% from the field and 83.4% FT. All while taking a shitty team to the playoffs who's other 4 leading scorers were Lamar Odom, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm and Brian Cook.

Co-MVP, imo.
cosigned.

[LeftWideOpen]

did you have the lakers in the 7th spot and taking the 2 seed to game 7 of the first round of the playoffs, before the season started? alright. and don't give a boris diaw retort, because he could have been a good player in atlanta, but they're personnel decisions are questionable at best. he deserved more playing time in atlanta.
I don't know how people DON'T see how valuable kobe is to the lakers just because he plays a different style of ball than nash. he's not a PG, he's not supposed to average 8-10 assists a game. and he had to shoot the ball, because honestly, are you having kwame brown or smush parker going to try and being the dominant offensive force? didn't think so.

point is, people just love to hate of kobe and while i don't like the lakers, or kobe for that matter, the dude single handedly led his shitty team into the playoffs.

Before the season, if you would have been told that someone had this stat line and wasn't the mvp, everyone would be shocked:
35.4 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 4.5 APG, 1.5 SPG, and as a guard shoot 45.1% from the field and 83.4% FT. All while taking a shitty team to the playoffs who's other 4 leading scorers were Lamar Odom, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm and Brian Cook.

Co-MVP, imo.

i don't deny that kobe is the best scorer in the game right now, but it's hard to argue a guy on a 7th seeded team being valuable. If he were the most valuable, his team would be the one sitting in the #2 spot because there's value in winning and Nash led his team to more wins.

thats my take on the whole situation, at least. Kobe winning MVP would have been as stupid as when A-Rod did it for Texas.

[Brownpants06]

Clippers in 6.

7.

[splitsecond]

Clippers in 6.


Hahaha, thats so ignorant.

[Scott Weber]

Nobody believes in the Suns. I think they'll take the Clippers in 6...there's a reason they're the number 2 seed.

[ActorInThisPlay]

Nobody believes in the Suns. I think they'll take the Clippers in 6...there's a reason they're the number 2 seed.
I believed in the Suns the entire Lakers series but now they are playing my favorite team in the Clippers. I think the Clippers can honestly beat them. The games that the Lakers won, they had a good inside game, and with Kaman and Brand as the inside guys, I don't see how they are going to stop them seemings they could barely stop Brown inside. It's just that Brown sucks and can't make a 2 foot shot. I don't know, it will be interesting to see but I just think the Clippers are the more well rounded team. If the Suns win, I won't be that pissed anyway, not as pissed had the Lakers beat the Clippers.

[Scott Weber]

I believed in the Suns the entire Lakers series but now they are playing my favorite team in the Clippers. I think the Clippers can honestly beat them. The games that the Lakers won, they had a good inside game, and with Kaman and Brand as the inside guys, I don't see how they are going to stop them seemings they could barely stop Brown inside. It's just that Brown sucks and can't make a 2 foot shot. I don't know, it will be interesting to see but I just think the Clippers are the more well rounded team. If the Suns win, I won't be that pissed anyway, not as pissed had the Lakers beat the Clippers.
I'm more interested to see if Pheonix can stop Brand. They'll probably put Marion on him, but if he gets into foul trouble, yikes. Brian Grant may actually see some minutes in this series just to be a big body to give some fouls.

[ActorInThisPlay]

I'm more interested to see if Pheonix can stop Brand. They'll probably put Marion on him, but if he gets into foul trouble, yikes. Brian Grant may actually see some minutes in this series just to be a big body to give some fouls.
Brand didn't have a great series against Denver so I am interested to see how he comes out for this series and plays. Kaman should have a great series being he is 7' tall and the tallest guy in the starting lineup of the Suns is 6'8".

[Scott Weber]

Brand very well may got for 30 and 15 against the suns.

[ActorInThisPlay]

Brand very well may got for 30 and 15 against the suns.
I think he is going to need to in order to beat the Suns

[somethingyellow]

I can't pick against my team with home court advantage. I wouldnt be surprised to see the Clippers win but i will go with the Suns in 7

[ActorInThisPlay]

I can't pick against my team with home court advantage. I wouldnt be surprised to see the Clippers win but i will go with the Suns in 7
yeah I feel the same way, I wouldn't be surprised with either team winning this series.

[Brownpants06]

Nobody believes in the Suns. I think they'll take the Clippers in 6...there's a reason they're the number 2 seed.

MVP MVP MVP




I would love the suns to win, but I just think Elton Brand > Pheonix. I think the Suns could put up a good fight which is why I'd say 7.

[somethingyellow]

i had to update my avatar :D

[ActorInThisPlay]

i had to update my avatar :D
haha nice...we need to get Caleb to update his now...where is that guy?

[somethingyellow]

haha nice...we need to get Caleb to update his now...where is that guy?i havent seen him in a few days

[Bobcat46308]

nash is a great player but not the most valuable. if you take nash off of phoenix, you still have a high-seeded playoff team. take kobe off of the lakers or lebron off of the cavs and you have two teams that'll never see the playoffs. also, i think shawn marion was also an MVP candidate. it's not hard to win games with two players of that caliber and not to mention the suns' great supporting cast.

[LeftWideOpen]

nash is a great player but not the most valuable. if you take nash off of phoenix, you still have a high-seeded playoff team. take kobe off of the lakers or lebron off of the cavs and you have two teams that'll never see the playoffs. also, i think shawn marion was also an MVP candidate. it's not hard to win games with two players of that caliber and not to mention the suns' great supporting cast.

how valuable is a guy if his team only finishes in 7th place though? I mean it isn't his fault that the team around him is close to crap, but you still need to take your team to/near the top or else you arent the most valuable. MVP and Best Player are two things that are completely different, I think. Kobe might win the latter, but not the MVP.

[Broken Parachute]

Elton Brand should have gotten more votes. :(

[somethingyellow]

nash is a great player but not the most valuable.if you take nash off of phoenix, you still have a high-seeded playoff team. take kobe off of the lakers or lebron off of the cavs and you have two teams that'll never see the playoffs. also, i think shawn marion was also an MVP candidate. it's not hard to win games with two players of that caliber and not to mention the suns' great supporting cast.I disagree. Nash is the player who leds the team and makes them able to play their style of basketball so well. When he was hurt or was on the bench in that first series you could really tell.

[Scott Weber]

nash is a great player but not the most valuable. if you take nash off of phoenix, you still have a high-seeded playoff team. take kobe off of the lakers or lebron off of the cavs and you have two teams that'll never see the playoffs. also, i think shawn marion was also an MVP candidate. it's not hard to win games with two players of that caliber and not to mention the suns' great supporting cast.
Not true...the last 9 games or something the Suns have been without Nash, they've lost all of them. They can't do a thing on offense without him, they're just lost. There were a good chunk of people who picked Pheonix to miss the playoffs after Amare got hurt and Nash made great players out of previously role players like Raja Bell, Diaw, etc.

[Bobcat46308]

all good points. although the same could be said for Kobe and LeBron, their teams aren't as good as the nash's. i still think Kobe was the MVP because he was the best player in the league this year and without him, his team would have suffered greatly. like everyone said, though, the lakers coming in 7th hurt him...

[Brownpants06]

nash is a great player but not the most valuable. if you take nash off of phoenix, you still have a high-seeded playoff team. take kobe off of the lakers or lebron off of the cavs and you have two teams that'll never see the playoffs. also, i think shawn marion was also an MVP candidate. it's not hard to win games with two players of that caliber and not to mention the suns' great supporting cast.

The difference: You can interchange players like kobe, lebron, wade for any other high scoring guard and have the same team. You can't replace Nash.



/beat dead horse

[Scott Weber]

The difference: You can interchange players like kobe, lebron, wade for any other high scoring guard and have the same team. You can't replace Nash.



/beat dead horse
Kobe you might be able to interchange with another high scoring guard and only lose a few more games (Say, Paul Pierce) but LeBron is irreplaceable in my opinion as well. You're not just taking away 31 points, you're taking away a good defensive player, size, 7 assists a game, etc. LeBron runs so much of that offense.

[FondestMemory]

The difference: You can interchange players like kobe, lebron, wade for any other high scoring guard and have the same team. You can't replace Nash.



/beat dead horse

that's the worst argument i've ever seen attempted.

[Brownpants06]

that's the worst argument i've ever seen attempted.


And that's the one that won him an MVP, problems? Talk to the 920somthing points to kobes 450. LeBron was second and Dirk third, 4th went to kobe in the mvp race.

[FondestMemory]

And that's the one that won him an MVP, problems? Talk to the 920somthing points to kobes 450. LeBron was second and Dirk third, 4th went to kobe in the mvp race.

i'm well aware of how the voting went, but to suggest that kobe, lebron or d wade are replaceable is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard.

[ActorInThisPlay]

i'm well aware of how the voting went, but to suggest that kobe, lebron or d wade are replaceable is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard.
yeah it is kinda stupid but I can kind of see his point

[Drew Beringer]

Kobe you might be able to interchange with another high scoring guard and only lose a few more games (Say, Paul Pierce) but LeBron is irreplaceable in my opinion as well. You're not just taking away 31 points, you're taking away a good defensive player, size, 7 assists a game, etc. LeBron runs so much of that offense.

I agree with all the LBJ talk, minus the defense part. He's only mediocre right now at D, but again he is only 21, Jordan wasn't great at D in his early years, but he rose it to that level. LBJ needs to improve his D a lot, but I think he can do it. And I was shocked to see Kobe finish 4th in the MVP vote. Crazy, again this just shows how much I know. lol

[mikeford]

Kobe you might be able to interchange with another high scoring guard and only lose a few more games (Say, Paul Pierce) but LeBron is irreplaceable in my opinion as well. You're not just taking away 31 points, you're taking away a good defensive player, size, 7 assists a game, etc. LeBron runs so much of that offense.

theres no way paul pierce only has the lakers losing "a few more games". just saying.

[DevastatingDave]

Yeah...Thats why when you replaced Kobe with Dwane Wade and changed the lakers name to the heat they produced 3 more championships.

[FondestMemory]

yeah it is kinda stupid but I can kind of see his point

if somebody wants to use the argument that any of those three can be replaced, the same argument could be made that if chris paul, jason kidd or somebody else could be put on the suns and have an mvp year.

lebron, kobe and d wade are special players for a reason. they can't just be replaced.

[Split2nd]

I can say the exact same thing. Put Chris Paul or Jason Kidd in the Suns offensive system with all those shooters, and watch them still be a top 5 team in the west. The only guy in the entire league who could replace what Kobe did is LeBron. You don't realize just how bad this team is... there are NO shooters on the whole roster. You might say that he doesn't make his teammates better, but the roster is completely void of talent that fits with Kobe's style of play.

Kobe is a dominant scorer. He gets consistently double teamed, and a man is always open, usually on the perimeter, but that guy doesn't have an outside shot. The starting lineup for most of the year was

PG. Smush - 11.5 PPG; 36% from 3
SG. Lamar Odom - Does NOT have a jumpshot
PF. Kwame Brown - Does NOT have a jumpshot
C. Chris Mihm - Does NOT have a jumpshot

Bench had Brian Cook - 7.9 PPG in 19 Min.; 43% from 3 (Only good shooter on the entire team). Sasha has a good stroke in practice as has been reported numerous times, but was absolutely awful during games. Turiaf does not have a jumpshot. Bynum does not have a jumpshot. George has a decent shot, but was plagued with injuries. Luke for about 85% of the year did not have a good jumpshot. Still is not fluid, but has developed a nice fadeaway.

How do you expect him to make his teammates better if the entire roster is poorly built around the superstars' skill set? To quote MJ, when told to make his teammates better, "Get me some better f'n teammates then"

And, for the record, though Pierce had a fantastic year, there's no way he can replace Kobe, and neither can DWade. That's just laughable.

[Scott Weber]

The Pierce analogy wasn't serious, it was just me throwing an example out there. Yeah, teams would suffer without their stars, but I don't think a team would be as severely hurt without a player as the Suns would be without Nash. That's all I'm saying. I don't think you could stick Chris Paul in Nash's spot and expect the same results. Nash is perfect for that Suns offense, he's a runner, a gunner, and fearless. He excels on the break and creates open looks for everyone else with his moves and pure speed. He's a quick little fucker for a white dude.

[ActorInThisPlay]

I can say the exact same thing. Put Chris Paul or Jason Kidd in the Suns offensive system with all those shooters, and watch them still be a top 5 team in the west. The only guy in the entire league who could replace what Kobe did is LeBron. You don't realize just how bad this team is... there are NO shooters on the whole roster. You might say that he doesn't make his teammates better, but the roster is completely void of talent that fits with Kobe's style of play.

Kobe is a dominant scorer. He gets consistently double teamed, and a man is always open, usually on the perimeter, but that guy doesn't have an outside shot. The starting lineup for most of the year was

PG. Smush - 11.5 PPG; 36% from 3
SG. Lamar Odom - Does NOT have a jumpshot
PF. Kwame Brown - Does NOT have a jumpshot
C. Chris Mihm - Does NOT have a jumpshot

Bench had Brian Cook - 7.9 PPG in 19 Min.; 43% from 3 (Only good shooter on the entire team). Sasha has a good stroke in practice as has been reported numerous times, but was absolutely awful during games. Turiaf does not have a jumpshot. Bynum does not have a jumpshot. George has a decent shot, but was plagued with injuries. Luke for about 85% of the year did not have a good jumpshot. Still is not fluid, but has developed a nice fadeaway.

How do you expect him to make his teammates better if the entire roster is poorly built around the superstars' skill set? To quote MJ, when told to make his teammates better, "Get me some better f'n teammates then"

And, for the record, though Pierce had a fantastic year, there's no way he can replace Kobe, and neither can DWade. That's just laughable.
Odom has a good jumpshot, in fact that is what makes him a threat. he can take you inside or shoot from outside.

[DevastatingDave]

Odom has a decent jump shot. I wouldn't consider odom's jumpshot a threat. It's more the fact that he is athletic enough to beat his man off the dribble, not his jumpshot.

[Split2nd]

Odom has a good jumpshot, in fact that is what makes him a threat. he can take you inside or shoot from outside.

His midrange jumpshot is ugly. He developed a 3point shot, but was only consistently good with it for about the last 25 games of the season. Before that, he was awful. It's actually one of the main reasons I don't want to see him traded, he's got a sweet 3 point stroke now, and that makes him 10x more valuable in the triangle.

[splitsecond]

His midrange jumpshot is ugly. He developed a 3point shot, but was only consistently good with it for about the last 25 games of the season. Before that, he was awful. It's actually one of the main reasons I don't want to see him traded, he's got a sweet 3 point stroke now, and that makes him 10x more valuable in the triangle.

I am just curious, but do you enjoy the bandwagon?

[Split2nd]

I am just curious, but do you enjoy the bandwagon?

You've got to be fucking joking me. I've been a Laker fan since the days of Cedric Ceballos and Nick Van Exel. I have an Eddie Jones jersey when he wore the number 25. I followed the Lakers through Kobe's airballs in Utah, through the championships, through the destruction in Detroit, and through the misery that was the '04-'05 season. You're honestly calling me a bandwagon fan? I've never even talked to you before in my life.

Do me a favor next time and shut the fuck up unless you know what you're talking about, and stop stealing screen names, you fucking prick.

[splitsecond]

You've got to be fucking joking me. I've been a Laker fan since the days of Cedric Ceballos and Nick Van Exel. I have an Eddie Jones jersey when he wore the number 25. I followed the Lakers through Kobe's airballs in Utah, through the championships, through the destruction in Detroit, and through the misery that was the '04-'05 season. You're honestly calling me a bandwagon fan? I've never even talked to you before in my life.

Do me a favor next time and shut the fuck up unless you know what you're talking about, and stop stealing screen names, you fucking prick.


I am pretty sure we have discussed this, but I had splitsecond with one d a looooong time ago, but Jason banned it when I called him out on the 2004 election


ANYWAYS:

lakers
braves
buckeyes
steelers


and you live where?


kthx.

[Split2nd]

I am pretty sure we have discussed this, but I had splitsecond with one d a looooong time ago, but Jason banned it when I called him out on the 2004 election


ANYWAYS:

lakers
braves
buckeyes
steelers


and you live where?


kthx.


I'm not a buckeyes fan, that's Santonio Holmes, who's now a Steeler.

I live in Los Angeles. My older brother was a huge Greg Maddux fan ever since he was a Cub, and became a Braves fan. I grew up watching games with him everyday on TBS, and I've been a Braves fan through all the postseason dissapointments, and the one non-dissapointment. (Still love you Tommy G). My dad grew up in Pennsylvania, and converted me to a Steeler fan. I've loved them since the days of Kordell and Tommy Maddox. I talked about them even on the sports forum here before they won the Superbowl, I remember defending them against Patriots fans with still_life.

And you're sitting here calling me a bandwagon fan? Go fuck yourself dude, you don't know anything about me.

kthxyou'reafuckingdouche

[itsjdiggity]

I'm not a buckeyes fan, that's Santonio Holmes, who's now a Steeler.

I live in Los Angeles. My older brother was a huge Greg Maddux fan ever since he was a Cub, and became a Braves fan. I grew up watching games with him everyday on TBS, and I've been a Braves fan through all the postseason dissapointments, and the one non-dissapointment. (Still love you Tommy G). My dad grew up in Pennsylvania, and converted me to a Steeler fan. I've loved them since the days of Kordell and Tommy Maddox. I talked about them even on the sports forum here before they won the Superbowl, I remember defending them against Patriots fans with still_life.

And you're sitting here calling me a bandwagon fan? Go fuck yourself dude, you don't know anything about me.

kthxyou'reafuckingdouche

why is everyone all of a sudden ganging up on you for no reason

[Split2nd]

why is everyone all of a sudden ganging up on you for no reason
Probably because I defend Kobe to no end, no one likes him here, and I kind of act like a dick while doing it. Almost everyone hates me here, they think I make asinine statements with Kobe's nuts in my mouth.

[Scott Weber]

Probably because I defend Kobe to no end, no one likes him here, and I kind of act like a dick while doing it. Almost everyone hates me here, they think I make asinine statements with Kobe's nuts in my mouth.
You can talk all you want but you can't justify Kobe's arrogant on-court antics in the first half of game 7 when the Lakers were down 16.

[Split2nd]

You can talk all you want but you can't justify Kobe's arrogant on-court antics in the first half of game 7 when the Lakers were down 16.

Gimme a break, all the fans do is boo Kobe, everytime he touches the damn ball. He wasn't even involved with the play and they were chanting "Kobe sucks." He was having some fun with it, and, what a surprise, he's criticized heavily. Chill the fuck out, is he not allowed to have fun? Or is that arrogant to you? I guess if he saved some kids from a fire, he'd be arrogant too. No, I bet he would've started the fire, and Steve Nash was the one who saved them and called the police.

[Scott Weber]

Gimme a break, all the fans do is boo Kobe, everytime he touches the damn ball. He wasn't even involved with the play and they were chanting "Kobe sucks." He was having some fun with it, and, what a surprise, he's criticized heavily. Chill the fuck out, is he not allowed to have fun? Or is that arrogant to you? I guess if he saved some kids from a fire, he'd be arrogant too. No, I bet he would've started the fire, and Steve Nash was the one who saved them and called the police.
Whatever. The only reason he gets booed so much is because he's a fucking cock in the first place. He always has the option to shrug it off or let his game to the talking, but his little sneers and hand to the ear is flat out cocky and unsportsmanlike. I don't care how much you love the dude, there is NO excuse for that kind of behavior on the court, and being hated does not justify it. Fuck Kobe, and take off your blinders.

[Split2nd]

Whatever. The only reason he gets booed so much is because he's a fucking cock in the first place. He always has the option to shrug it off or let his game to the talking, but his little sneers and hand to the ear is flat out cocky and unsportsmanlike. I don't care how much you love the dude, there is NO excuse for that kind of behavior on the court, and being hated does not justify it. Fuck Kobe, and take off your blinders.

My blinders? Whatever dude, not everyone is going to be a fucking meek superstar like Tim Duncan. He doesn't talk a lot of shit, he knows what he's talking about when he speaks in public, but he's an emotional guy. Many players do shit like pump their chests, etc. when they're excited, and don't get shit for it. But because he's a cocky arrogant asshole Kobe Bryant, he does.

[Scott Weber]

My blinders? Whatever dude, not everyone is going to be a fucking meek superstar like Tim Duncan. He doesn't talk a lot of shit, he knows what he's talking about when he speaks in public, but he's an emotional guy. Many players do shit like pump their chests, etc. when they're excited, and don't get shit for it. But because he's a cocky arrogant asshole Kobe Bryant, he does.
Kobe is the most arrogant superstar in the league. You're fucking blind if you can't see that - period. The way he talks to the media, the swagger on the court, it's disgusting and unsportsmanlike. Ever consider that's part of the REASON he's hated?

[Split2nd]

Kobe is the most arrogant superstar in the league. You're fucking blind if you can't see that - period. The way he talks to the media, the swagger on the court, it's disgusting and unsportsmanlike. Ever consider that's part of the REASON he's hated?
The way he talks to the media? Tell me, what does he say? I don't fucking get this, you take the stuff he does on the court as arrogant? Beating his chest, putting his hand to his ear? Getting the crowd pumped when he's excited? Plenty of players do that shit, and they're not considered arrogant. If the way he talks to the media is arrogant, I really don't understand what the hell you're talking about. He doesn't go out there and say "Yeah, I'm the best, you know dog, I'm just straight ballin', I'm just unstoppable, people don't understand how good I am dog, you know dog?"

Kobe was never hated nearly as much before the rape allogations and the public belief that he "forced Phil and Shaq out of LA," and that he's a "selfish bastard who wanted to win scoring titles, not championships." The media ate him up because of his pretty boy lifestyle of working his ass off 24/7, not going out partying like all the other players, never drinking, etc.

Fans also naturally hate superstars who play for opposing teams. Kobe's is simply intensified for his passionate on court antics, and the previously stated belief of forcing Phil and Shaq out of LA and the rape charges.

[Scott Weber]

The way he talks to the media? Tell me, what does he say? I don't fucking get this, you take the stuff he does on the court as arrogant? Beating his chest, putting his hand to his ear? Getting the crowd pumped when he's excited? Plenty of players do that shit, and they're not considered arrogant. If the way he talks to the media is arrogant, I really don't understand what the hell you're talking about. He doesn't go out there and say "Yeah, I'm the best, you know dog, I'm just straight ballin', I'm just unstoppable, people don't understand how good I am dog, you know dog?"

Kobe was never hated nearly as much before the rape allogations and the public belief that he "forced Phil and Shaq out of LA," and that he's a "selfish bastard who wanted to win scoring titles, not championships." The media ate him up because of his pretty boy lifestyle of working his ass off 24/7, not going out partying like all the other players, never drinking, etc.

Fans also naturally hate superstars who play for opposing teams. Kobe's is simply intensified for his passionate on court antics, and the previously stated belief of forcing Phil and Shaq out of LA and the rape charges.
You really are fucking blind.

Kobe after a Suns loss: "You know, I can pretty much score whenever I want to, but I get my team involved instead, we do better that way"

Kobe, instead of ignoring fan chants and taking the high road, stares at the fans, while down 16 in a crucial game, and nods his head with a sneer on his face.

Kobe, jumping up on scorers tables, ripping his jersey to the side of his chest while beating it emphatically.


You cannot deny that Kobe is an arrogant cock, whether you're an LA fan or not. Plenty of players do that, but true superstars do not. Jordan had a swagger but had class. Magic had showmanship, but was respectful.

[somethingyellow]

Why did Phil say he was uncoachable? I didn't read the book for the specifics but i know Phil said it.

[Split2nd]

You really are fucking blind.

Kobe after a Suns loss: "You know, I can pretty much score whenever I want to, but I get my team involved instead, we do better that way"

Kobe, instead of ignoring fan chants and taking the high road, stares at the fans, while down 16 in a crucial game, and nods his head with a sneer on his face.

Kobe, jumping up on scorers tables, ripping his jersey to the side of his chest while beating it emphatically.


You cannot deny that Kobe is an arrogant cock, whether you're an LA fan or not. Plenty of players do that, but true superstars do not. Jordan had a swagger but had class. Magic had showmanship, but was respectful.

Look at the quote in context. He wasn't bragging about his ability to score whenever as you think and make it seem. He was trying to point out that it'd be more beneficial to get everyone else involved because he can get his points. EVERY SINGLE fucking person on the planet says it, Kobe can get his, but the teammates need to be involved. He was stating the obvious, what everyone else was saying.

They're not just "fan chants." He wasn't even involved in the damn play, the HOME TEAM was shooting free throws, and they were chanting "Kobe sucks." I mean, are you kidding? You're supposed to root for your team, not root against a player on the opposing team. That's a "fan chant" taken to an obvious extreme, he's not allowed to have fun with that? He's supposed to take it like a bitch that everyone hates him and thinks he's a dickhead? He finds it amusing, so he does something like what he did.

That was probably the biggest shot he'd made in his life, and you think he's cocky for jumping on the scorer's table and pumping up the crowd. So being excited and pumping up the crowd is bad sportsmanship, but saying that you don't have any respect for another guy and grabbing him by the throat and clotheslining him to the floor isn't?

[ActorInThisPlay]

Look at the quote in context. He wasn't bragging about his ability to score whenever as you think and make it seem. He was trying to point out that it'd be more beneficial to get everyone else involved because he can get his points. EVERY SINGLE fucking person on the planet says it, Kobe can get his, but the teammates need to be involved. He was stating the obvious, what everyone else was saying.

They're not just "fan chants." He wasn't even involved in the damn play, the HOME TEAM was shooting free throws, and they were chanting "Kobe sucks." I mean, are you kidding? You're supposed to root for your team, not root against a player on the opposing team. That's a "fan chant" taken to an obvious extreme, he's not allowed to have fun with that? He's supposed to take it like a bitch that everyone hates him and thinks he's a dickhead? He finds it amusing, so he does something like what he did.

That was probably the biggest shot he'd made in his life, and you think he's cocky for jumping on the scorer's table and pumping up the crowd. So being excited and pumping up the crowd is bad sportsmanship, but saying that you don't have any respect for another guy and grabbing him by the throat and clotheslining him to the floor isn't?
wow you really are fucking blind...please refrain yourself from speaking about Kobe because you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

[Scott Weber]

yeah this is pathetic.

[FondestMemory]

i don't understand what the big deal is.

he likes kobe. you don't. end of story.

[Scott Weber]

You can like an arrogant player but to deny that he is arrogant is hilarious.

[Bobcat46308]

all athletes are arrogant to some extent, everyone knows that.
kobe basically can score anytime he wants to, and i believe michael jordan, shaq, lebron, and all of the other superstars have at one point or another talked after a game about how they felt that they couldn't be stopped and could score at will.
my opinion is that kobe takes too much shit. he does have his flaws in character, but for the amount of what he puts up with i think it's understandable to some extent.

and split2nd, take that Santonio/Steelers picture off!!!!! one extreme is the the team i love and the other is the fucking steelers, the most disgusting football franchise in the history of the nfl.

[FondestMemory]

and split2nd, take that Santonio/Steelers picture off!!!!! one extreme is the the team i love and the other is the fucking steelers, the most disgusting football franchise in the history of the nfl.

i love the buckeyes and live for the steelers, so he can keep that as long as he wants as far as i'm concerned.

[LeftWideOpen]

You can like an arrogant player but to deny that he is arrogant is hilarious.

kobe really isnt that bad w/ his on court behavior and comments to the media. i think you are exaggerating this because if you wanted to divide the league into two halves, group one being Obnoxious Fucks and 2 being Modest Players, he'd be in the latter group. He isnt nearly as bad as some of the guys in this league.

With that said, he's said some questionable things. But he isnt one of those guys who starves for attention so I can deal w/ him just fine.

[Tim Thomas]

They were chanting Kobe sucks when Kwame was shooting free throws.....who also sucks....horribly

[Scott Weber]

kobe really isnt that bad w/ his on court behavior and comments to the media. i think you are exaggerating this because if you wanted to divide the league into two halves, group one being Obnoxious Fucks and 2 being Modest Players, he'd be in the latter group. He isnt nearly as bad as some of the guys in this league.

With that said, he's said some questionable things. But he isnt one of those guys who starves for attention so I can deal w/ him just fine.
I wouldn't put Kobe anywhere NEAR a modest player. He's far closer to an obnoxious fuck, especially in recent years, than modest.

[Bobcat46308]

i love the buckeyes and live for the steelers, so he can keep that as long as he wants as far as i'm concerned.

i was half-joking... i hope santonio holmes has a great career, just as long as it's not against the Browns and not during the playoffs.

[Split2nd]

all athletes are arrogant to some extent, everyone knows that.
kobe basically can score anytime he wants to, and i believe michael jordan, shaq, lebron, and all of the other superstars have at one point or another talked after a game about how they felt that they couldn't be stopped and could score at will.
my opinion is that kobe takes too much shit. he does have his flaws in character, but for the amount of what he puts up with i think it's understandable to some extent.

kobe really isnt that bad w/ his on court behavior and comments to the media. i think you are exaggerating this because if you wanted to divide the league into two halves, group one being Obnoxious Fucks and 2 being Modest Players, he'd be in the latter group. He isnt nearly as bad as some of the guys in this league.

With that said, he's said some questionable things. But he isnt one of those guys who starves for attention so I can deal w/ him just fine.

Agreed and agreed. I'm arguing the fact that you act like he's some complete prick who worships himself and keeps posters of himself on the wall, and every single other good player is a Saint, which just isn't true. You're telling me that I'm a fucking idiot and biased, why don't you look at yourself and realize that you're biased to the other extreme? Sure, he may come off as cocky sometimes, but he doesn't deserve nearly as much shit as he gets, and the reasons people give for hating him (that he's a cocky, arrogant asshole) are bullshit, because if that's why they hated him, they'd hate many other players in the league, and a lot to an even greater degree.

[Scott Weber]

I missed the part where anyone called you an idiot. I called you blind because you can't see this from an outsider's perspective because you're a big Lakers fan.

[Split2nd]

That may be true, but I'm not even a big Kobe fan. I just defend him because I don't think he deserves all the crap he gets from people, and the reasons they give for giving him so much crap are ridiculous. And I'm saying you can't see it from an outsider's perspective because you're so biased against Kobe.

[Scott Weber]

That may be true, but I'm not even a big Kobe fan. I just defend him because I don't think he deserves all the crap he gets from people, and the reasons they give for giving him so much crap are ridiculous. And I'm saying you can't see it from an outsider's perspective because you're so biased against Kobe.
That doesn't even make sense.

There's one thing you're just not understanding. I'm an outsider. I have no interest in the Lakers, I don't follow them, I'm not a fan, therefore I am unbiased. I made up my mind on Kobe independent of my location or my loyalty, unlike you! How can you say someone is biased when they had to make a decision or formulate an opinion on something in the first place? That doesn't make any sense. I decided on my own that I didn't like Kobe a while ago, and it wasn't because I felt like being "anti-Kobe." Having an opinion on something I have no vested interest in certainly does not make me biased.

[Scott Weber]

still waiting for a response on this.

[ActorInThisPlay]

still waiting for a response on this.
hahah :pwned:

[LeftWideOpen]

still waiting for a response on this.

are you speaking from your personal opinion though? or are you speaking on behalf of objective fans in this situation ..because much like you, i am unbias here but i don't see him being that bad in terms of cockiness, especially when compared to the rest of the league. if you're speaking on your behalf, i understand where you could be coming from and i respect that ...i just take issue with the notion that its understood by just about everybody that kobe is an arrogant douche.

[hubbabubbal3ts]

i still think nash deserved the mvp. kobe did have a dominating year, but in regards to overall performance i'm going to have to go with nash.

[FondestMemory]

are you speaking from your personal opinion though? or are you speaking on behalf of objective fans in this situation ..because much like you, i am unbias here but i don't see him being that bad in terms of cockiness, especially when compared to the rest of the league. if you're speaking on your behalf, i understand where you could be coming from and i respect that ...i just take issue with the notion that its understood by just about everybody that kobe is an arrogant douche.

agreed. i'm an unbiased outsider and i don't think he's as bad as he's being made out to be. and i used to be a kobe-hater.

[Scott Weber]

are you speaking from your personal opinion though? or are you speaking on behalf of objective fans in this situation ..because much like you, i am unbias here but i don't see him being that bad in terms of cockiness, especially when compared to the rest of the league. if you're speaking on your behalf, i understand where you could be coming from and i respect that ...i just take issue with the notion that its understood by just about everybody that kobe is an arrogant douche.
I have a right to formulate my own personal opinion on a player from an outsiders perspective, do I not?

[FondestMemory]

I have a right to formulate my own personal opinion on a player from an outsiders perspective, do I not?

you do.

and that dude has a right to formulate his own personal opinion on a player also.

[Scott Weber]

you do.

and that dude has a right to formulate his own personal opinion on a player also.
Are you following this debate? He told me I couldn't look at this rationally because I was biased against Kobe. That's the point.

[LeftWideOpen]

I have a right to formulate my own personal opinion on a player from an outsiders perspective, do I not?

thats what i was asking you ..if it was a personal opinion of your own or if you thought thats the general consensus from unbias people. i said if its your opinion, thats completely cool, but you'd be wrong to assume most people see it that way.

[Scott Weber]

thats what i was asking you ..if it was a personal opinion of your own or if you thought thats the general consensus from unbias people. i said if its your opinion, thats completely cool, but you'd be wrong to assume most people see it that way.
yeah, but that's not even the point, the point was that it's impossible for me to have a bias simply from having a personal opinion.

[DevastatingDave]

Scott, so because you formulated your own personal opinion means that your not biased. Thats bullshit. The fact is whoever has a differing opinion then you, you call them biased. Every board i read your always calling everyone who doesnt agree with you dumb fucks or something. IMO, your the most biased person on this board. I guess you just werent hugged enough as a kid.

[Scott Weber]

Scott, so because you formulated your own personal opinion means that your not biased. Thats bullshit. The fact is whoever has a differing opinion then you, you call them biased. Every board i read your always calling everyone who doesnt agree with you dumb fucks or something. IMO, your the most biased person on this board. I guess you just werent hugged enough as a kid.
a) I never called him an idiot, I said he's blind because he's a rabid LA Laker fan and I stand by that - that is true bias. It's not because his opinion is different, it's because of his signature and the fact that he openly admits to loving the Lakers for quite some time. If the guy lived in NYC and just liked Kobe, that's completely different.
b) look up the definition of bias, it's not personal opinion, it's something that blinds or skews your vision so you can't look at a situation objectively.
c) I have never called anybody a "dumb fuck" for having an opinion.
d) Again, do you have any idea what the word biased means? Just wondering.
e) It's the sports forum. We debate. Get over it and stop taking shit so personal.
f) You have 39 posts so you really have no basis to act like you know every thread I post in.

[sweethypocrisy]

Lebron again shows why he shouldve been mvp today.

[Scott Weber]

Lebron again shows why he shouldve been mvp today.
he was amazing today. so unselfish and then took over when he needed to.

[sweethypocrisy]

he was amazing today. so unselfish and then took over when he needed to.
exactly. all game he made the passes, then when the 4th quarter hit he single handedly told detroit to fuck off. it was amazing.

[Split2nd]

Scot, yes I'm a huge Laker fan, but no, I'm not a huge Kobe fan. I stopped bothering with this thread because it was just getting irritating trying to defend him. It was basically a "'he's an asshole,'" 'no he's not'" type of thing. 'The fact is, we have differing opinions on the guy. I don't think he deserves all the shit he gets from guys like you, who consider him to be an "obnoxious fuck." What I meant was that your hatred for him is unjustified, and you're not looking at it within context of the entire league. There are plenty of guys who do very similar things that Kobe does on the court, but for some unseen reason you and many others are indifferent to them, but hate Kobe for it. How the things Kobe does off the court are seen as cocky are beyond me. You gave me one quote, and you took it out of context with the interview. If you had listened to the interview, you would have realized the manner in which he said it, and what he meant by it.