So you guys are totally okay with a two-time MVP who wont make the HOF right?

[mikeford]

just checking.

[splitsecond]

how did you get to be such a tool?

[mikeford]

this is a legit question and i am not trying to start shit.

[CallMeChief]

if you werent trying to start shit you would have worded it less harshly

[Emopunkthrice]

regardless of whether he makes it, he had many great years

[preppyak]

how did you get to be such a tool?
if you werent trying to start shit you would have worded it less harshly
well, it's not even his thoughts...it was said on ESPN about an hour ago, he's just repeating.

I don't know Nash's numbers that well, but I think with the two-MVP's, a championship ring (maybe this year, maybe not) and his assist numbers, he'll find the hall

[somethingyellow]

Surprise another statement by you trying to hate on nash. I find it hard to believe you started this thread not to start shit. He is only 32 years old which means he still has quite a few more years in the nba. If he keeps producing like this then your stupid statement wont be true. I love how nash winning the mvp makes you upset, now do me a favor and stop watching the nba like you said you would. MVPs are based on individual seasons not whole careers so the question is pretty pointless to ask anyways

[mat1419]

he will make the hof, if for nothing else, because he has 2 mvps. a title or a few more solid years and he's a lock.

[Mscales67]

you are the skip bayless of AP

[preppyak]

MVPs are based on individual seasons not whole careers so the question is pretty pointless to ask anyways
Bingo...

he will make the hof, if for nothing else, because he has 2 mvps. a title or a few more solid years and he's a lock.
yeah, that's my feeling...

[ThriftWhore]

I'll answer the question, I think that Nash will eventually be in the HOF, and lets just say that Nash may not be in the HOF, it doesn't have anything to do with him winning the MVP this year, making in two in a row. Its Most Valuable Player, not Who's done enough in his career to this date to get into the HOF, so we can give him an MVP award.

[Split2nd]

He's a great point guard, always has been, but what you're seeing right now is a product of a perfect system for him and his teammates that he's driving ridiculously well. This is the reason he was never considered for an MVP in Dallas. No way he makes the hall, and I seriously doubt he wins a championship with the Suns. They're not going to win a championship without significantly improving their D.

[Split2nd]

how did you get to be such a tool?

Coming from the dickhead who made a thread just to call Kobe a bitch?

[CallMeChief]

I'll answer the question, I think that Nash will eventually be in the HOF, and lets just say that Nash may not be in the HOF, it doesn't have anything to do with him winning the MVP this year, making in two in a row. Its Most Valuable Player, not Who's done enough in his career to this date to get into the HOF, so we can give him an MVP award.

very well said

[FondestMemory]

i was actually thinking about this earlier today, but didn't want to start a thread about it because i knew how it'd end up. but since it's here, i'll discuss.

i don't think he'll make the hof. if he were to retire right now, he wouldn't. granted, there's still a lot of time, and if he puts up a couple more years where he's top five mvp voting, he'll get consideration. however, if he doesn't win a championship in this string of years, i don't think he does.

with that said, i have no problem with him winning two mvps. he would have gotten my vote this year. kobe and he were so close in my opinion, that if i had to pick one it would have been nash. not to take anything away from kobe, but they always say the world champ is the world champ until they're beaten. using that philosophy, nash was the reigning mvp, and did more with less this year than last year, i just don't understand how you could take it away from him as close as it was.

i completely agree with nash as mvp this season. but if he were to retire right now, i wouldn't agree with him being a hof'er. but they're two completely different things. one's for the regular season, one's for a career. i can distinguish between the two.

therefore, as of now, kobe makes the hall with his 0 mvps and nash doesn't with his two, imo.

[somethingyellow]

This whole question is stupid too because he isnt even retired. Ask this question when a player's career is completely finished, not when he still has many more years to play

[splitsecond]

Coming from the dickhead who made a thread just to call Kobe a bitch?

Unfortunately the majority of people agree that kobe is a bitch. An arrogant bitch too. I dont care how good he is, or how many points he can score, he is still a bitch.

[Brownpants06]

Haha you're an idiot to think he wont make the HOF.

[splitsecond]

He's a great point guard, always has been, but what you're seeing right now is a product of a perfect system for him and his teammates that he's driving ridiculously well. This is the reason he was never considered for an MVP in Dallas. No way he makes the hall, and I seriously doubt he wins a championship with the Suns. They're not going to win a championship without significantly improving their D.

Try a healthy Amare and Kurt Thomas. Right now I know they will get taken out by either of the two Texas teams, but if they had full strength they would beat them.

[Katie Schmitz]

i don't know what the fuck those ESPN analysts were smoking but Nash will make the Hall. Someday, he will, there's no doubt in my mind.

[Katie Schmitz]

This whole question is stupid too because he isnt even retired. Ask this question when a player's career is completely finished, not when he still has many more years to play
good point

[ThriftWhore]

good point
how can you say it's a good point, when you said:
i don't know what the fuck those ESPN analysts were smoking but Nash will make the Hall. Someday, he will, there's no doubt in my mind.
..that, inwhich does the same thing people are doing in saying he won't be in; speculating.

[NetNerdsRevenge]

Does it even matter if he makes the hall or not? MVP is about single season achievement, not lifetime.

[Emopunkthrice]

was this thread made because you're angry bryant didn't win? grow up

[looksthatkillbn]

There needs to be a better defintion of most valuable player. I define it a little bit differently than others I think. I think, if you take Nash out and replace him with another decent point, they win about 15 games less. Then again, if you take Kobe out of LA, the Lakers win maybe 15 games all year. Therefore in my eyes, Kobe should have won the MVP. Absolutely 100% Nash made the players around him better, much better than Kobe made his teammates better, and if the MVP is defined by that respect, he deserved it. But in my eyes, by my definition, Kobe deserved it.

Then there is the HOF debate. Let's be honest, the HOF is for the flamboyant, the flashy, the scorers, the shooters. And Nash is far from that. Nash does not get the recognition that Kobe, LeBron, D-Wade, Dirk, Shaq, and I don't know how many others get. He may deserve it, but he doesn't get it, because his style isn't flashy. And the voters for the Hall will remember Kobe and LeBron fifty times faster than they will remember Nash. (May we also remember that Steve Nash is possibly, of famously good players, the worst defender in the history of the NBA)

[LeftWideOpen]

There needs to be a better defintion of most valuable player. I define it a little bit differently than others I think. I think, if you take Nash out and replace him with another decent point, they win about 15 games less. Then again, if you take Kobe out of LA, the Lakers win maybe 15 games all year. Therefore in my eyes, Kobe should have won the MVP. Absolutely 100% Nash made the players around him better, much better than Kobe made his teammates better, and if the MVP is defined by that respect, he deserved it. But in my eyes, by my definition, Kobe deserved it.

Then there is the HOF debate. Let's be honest, the HOF is for the flamboyant, the flashy, the scorers, the shooters. And Nash is far from that. Nash does not get the recognition that Kobe, LeBron, D-Wade, Dirk, Shaq, and I don't know how many others get. He may deserve it, but he doesn't get it, because his style isn't flashy. And the voters for the Hall will remember Kobe and LeBron fifty times faster than they will remember Nash. (May we also remember that Steve Nash is possibly, of famously good players, the worst defender in the history of the NBA)


to me, it's about value though. how valuable can something be if what it represents is just mediocre? Basketball is a team sport where the ultimate goal is to win. Therefore, I think a player who is considered to be the most valuable has to come from a team who is actually winning at a significant rate. The difference in the teams success, in this case, is too large of a gap to justify w/ individual statistics.

If Kobe is doing what he's doing on a 4th place Mavericks team, then there's much more significant case for him as MVP than what he's doing for a team that barely made the playoffs. And I understand that Kobe is probably the reason L.A made the playoffs, but Nash is also just as likely the reason that Phoenix was the #2 seed and not the #6 or #7 seed. Considering Phoenix, as a team, had far more success than L.A, it's hard to justify Kobe being more valuable. You can only be so valuable if the team you represent falls far short of the ultimate goal.

[looksthatkillbn]

to me, it's about value though. how valuable can something be if what it represents is just mediocre? Basketball is a team sport where the ultimate goal is to win. Therefore, I think a player who is considered to be the most valuable has to come from a team who is actually winning at a significant rate. The difference in the teams success, in this case, is too large of a gap to justify w/ individual statistics.

If Kobe is doing what he's doing on a 4th place Mavericks team, then there's much more significant case for him as MVP than what he's doing for a team that barely made the playoffs. And I understand that Kobe is probably the reason L.A made the playoffs, but Nash is also just as likely the reason that Phoenix was the #2 seed and not the #6 or #7 seed. Considering Phoenix, as a team, had far more success than L.A, it's hard to justify Kobe being more valuable. You can only be so valuable if the team you represent falls far short of the ultimate goal.

Well done. Then there is the balance of Kobe's effect on his team's success versus Nash's effect on his team's success, against the amount of success that each team ended up having, and figuring whose success was more integral to how much success, and heads start exploding. I still think that Kobe deserved the MVP, but by a much slimmer margin. Nice point.

[kg00d]

I don't even watch basketball but lets just say Nash was bad every year of his career until he retires and had just one standout season where he won MVP then he deserves it regardless if hes going to the HOF or not.

[ThexQuietxCull]

can anyone name a better player to come from canada?

[somethingyellow]

can anyone name a better player to come from canada?there is none

[ThexQuietxCull]

there is none

hmmm then maybe he will make the hall because of that

[bigmike]

hmmm then maybe he will make the hall because of that
yes, because it's the "basketball hall of fame of the best players from foreign countries".

[preppyak]

how can you say it's a good point, when you said:

..that, inwhich does the same thing people are doing in saying he won't be in; speculating.
It's entirely possible to condemn something...and even easier when you disagree with it. Her statement was essentially, we shouldn't be arguing this...but if we are, fuck ESPN, he should be in.

I mean, if before Terrel Davis retired, especially coming off being Super Bowl MVP, we wondered about him making the hall, nobody could even question his canidacy, but the fact that we now know he only played a small # of seasons makes his canidacy questionable at best.

to me, it's about value though. how valuable can something be if what it represents is just mediocre? Basketball is a team sport where the ultimate goal is to win. Therefore, I think a player who is considered to be the most valuable has to come from a team who is actually winning at a significant rate. The difference in the teams success, in this case, is too large of a gap to justify w/ individual statistics.

If Kobe is doing what he's doing on a 4th place Mavericks team, then there's much more significant case for him as MVP than what he's doing for a team that barely made the playoffs. And I understand that Kobe is probably the reason L.A made the playoffs, but Nash is also just as likely the reason that Phoenix was the #2 seed and not the #6 or #7 seed. Considering Phoenix, as a team, had far more success than L.A, it's hard to justify Kobe being more valuable. You can only be so valuable if the team you represent falls far short of the ultimate goal. I see what you're saying there, and largely I agree. There is the scoring title for whoever is best offensively, defensive for whoever is best there, etc. Most Valuable should then incorporate the effect on their team/standings.

[ActorInThisPlay]

all of these Kobe lovers are just mad at the fact that Kobe has still yet to win an MVP. Lebron will have more MVP's then Kobe will at the end of his career. In fact I am going to say that Lebron wins an MVP before Kobe does period.

[kg00d]

yes, because it's the "basketball hall of fame of the best players from foreign countries".

ahahaha

[preppyak]

all of these Kobe lovers are just mad at the fact that Kobe has still yet to win an MVP. Lebron will have more MVP's then Kobe will at the end of his career. In fact I am going to say that Lebron wins an MVP before Kobe does period.
I agree, only because I am about 80% certain that next year is LeBron's dominant year...and Kobe's team isn't particularly impressive by comparison.

I think the Cavaliers can make one solid pick up in free agency, and be a title contender for 3-4 years, I don't think the same of the Lakers, they need help in a few places

[ActorInThisPlay]

I agree, only because I am about 80% certain that next year is LeBron's dominant year...and Kobe's team isn't particularly impressive by comparison.

I think the Cavaliers can make one solid pick up in free agency, and be a title contender for 3-4 years, I don't think the same of the Lakers, they need help in a few places
yeah Lebron is my pick for MVP next year. this is only his 3rd season and he is putting up monster numbers. Kobe didn't put up anywhere near those numbers at Lebron's age.

[Kram41]

Has anyone read Steve Nash's book Long Shot? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189609516X/qid=1147070280/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-9230918-3740644?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

It's a good read.

[mikeford]

i like how the people saying he'll make the hall have failed to back this up with any stats.
nash has at most 3 years left with his bad back

[mikeford]

Kobe didn't put up anywhere near those numbers at Lebron's age.

he didnt have to, he had shaq

[somethingyellow]

i like how the people saying he'll make the hall have failed to back this up with any stats.
nash has at most 3 years left with his bad backhaha i forgot you were a doctor too. I also looked at jason kidd's stats when you said nash only won the mvp because he was white and kidd was the proof. Nash had better numbers in basically all offensive stats: points, assists, and all shooting stats including fg%, ft % and 3pt% which were a big difference. Kidd did have better rebounding numbers and was a better defender but Nash's team finished with a better record in a tougher conference both years. So I dont see how the race card has anything to do with your argument. If anything that argument is even more dumb since a black player duncan beat out kidd (a half white player) that year, so if race was an issue you would think they would have given it to kidd.

[Scott Weber]

this is retarded, Nash gets better every single year and he's still got a bunch of seasons left in him. 3 or 4 more seasons even without improvement gets him into the hall, and his 2 MVPs will certainly help his case.

[Jared Kaufman]

If you don't appreicate or can't see why Nash has won the MVP award twice now and how good he is, then I have no idea why you're even watching basketball.

[Scott Weber]

he didnt have to, he had shaq
Whatever, Shaq missed over 80 games in Kobe's first three seasons in LA.

[HoboAdam]

im waiting for somebody to say something about him being white and thats the reason why he won

[somethingyellow]

im waiting for somebody to say something about him being white and thats the reason why he wonmikeford tried saying that :rollseyes

[Adeniz19]

are you saying Kurt Warner should be in the HOF? hahaha

[Kram41]

are you saying Kurt Warner should be in the HOF? hahaha


Count it!!:bball: with an assist by Nash

[Emopunkthrice]

can anyone name a better player to come from canada?
Jamaal Magloire
hahahaahahah!

[looksthatkillbn]

are you saying Kurt Warner should be in the HOF? hahaha

wow that is such a winner.

[Spicoli hey bud]

1) Kobe deserved MVP a little more than Nash
2) MVP has nothing to do with HOF until inductions
3) Nash could still very well make the HOF

[ActorInThisPlay]

If you don't appreicate or can't see why Nash has won the MVP award twice now and how good he is, then I have no idea why you're even watching basketball.
exactly...