9/11 "Conspiracy" or truth?

[FallingOut]

As Jason mentioned on the front page today, Tom Delonge is one of a large group of people who believe the government was behind the 9/11 attacks. I have personally read a lot of the evidence on this, and watched a movie, "Loose Change, 2nd Edition." For those of you who have actually looked into this, what is your opinion? I personally believe it is VERY possible, but I cannot say that I am 100 percent sure. Just wanted to get everybodys opinions. And please, at least look into it before you go calling me an idiot. Thanks.

www.911proof.com
www.prisonplanet.com

[LostSymphonies]

you're an idiot

[enj0i29]

you're an idiot

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Lueda Alia]

There's another big thread about this.

By the way, where have you been? I haven't seen you in forever. :(

[FallingOut]

There's another big thread about this.

By the way, where have you been? I haven't seen you in forever. :(

Stopped coming pretty much. Got bored. Sorry I made a duplicate.

[cuetheflames]

to say 9/11 is a conspiracy is probably the most ignorant thing you could ever say.

[cuetheflames]

you're an idiot

he lives in cuyahoga falls, thats a bunch of hill shits.

[selftitled85]

possible yes...

plausible...hell fucking no.

[bass ampss]

FallingOut, you live awfully close to me.

[nivek87]

welcome to 2 weeks ago

[birdman]

I was gonna post in the original tom delonge thread but the posts are nearing 700 so it got be too much to read through.

Basically I think Tom Delonge, along with all of these other preachy musicians, is simply an ego maniac that needs to say outlandish things to get people to notice him. I gurantee everyone reading that the guy who wrote "Ben Wah Balls" and "Dysentary Gary" is not a political insider and listens to whatever liberal fairy tales that he sees on the internet because he is not intelligent or educated enough to distinguish between fact and fiction.

[cuetheflames]

possible yes...

plausible...hell fucking no.

i dont even see how it could be possible in the least.

[unwritten]

I think Tom watches too much 24.

[justinevans]

shut up.

[FallingOut]

i dont even see how it could be possible in the least.

You are incredibly naive. Have you bothered to even take a look at the evidence? I doubt it. You should actually take some time, and look at the evidence. Its the most ignorant thing to say? Ok fucker, how about this: To completely accept every single thing you hear on fucking CNN and Fox News without any doubt is the most ignorant thing you can do. Take one minute out of your life and actually consider that everything they say might not be true. It is more possible than you might think. I know it sounds crazy to think about, but actually open up your mind, take a look, and think about it.

[birdman]

You are incredibly naive. Have you bothered to even take a look at the evidence? I doubt it. You should actually take some time, and look at the evidence. Its the most ignorant thing to say? Ok fucker, how about this: To completely accept every single thing you hear on fucking CNN and Fox News without any doubt is the most ignorant thing you can do. Take one minute out of your life and actually consider that everything they say might not be true. It is more possible than you might think. I know it sounds crazy to think about, but actually open up your mind, take a look, and think about it.


Sorry, but i'll take CNN and Fox News over anything Tom Delonge and Fat Mike says.

[wessa]

ok, before today i would have said this guy is an idiot...

BUT, i watched that loose change video this afternoon, and all i can say is wow. Honestly, if you are one of the people who are saying that this could never happen, watch the video. there is a lot of crazy evidence that i never noticed before.
Evidence about multiple explosions at the WTC (including video evidence showing flashes coming from floors as the towers were collapsing, theory that the towers were actually brought down by explosives).
They also had a scientist do an experiment about use of cell phones in air planes. Well he found out that the succes rate of a call from the cruising height of an aircraft was like .006!! So how did all these people call their family members.

Honestly, watch this video, even if you don't believe it in the end it's worth the time because of the interest factor.

[selftitled85]

ok, before today i would have said this guy is an idiot...

BUT, i watched that loose change video this afternoon, and all i can say is wow. Honestly, if you are one of the people who are saying that this could never happen, watch the video. there is a lot of crazy evidence that i never noticed before.
Evidence about multiple explosions at the WTC (including video evidence showing flashes coming from floors as the towers were collapsing, theory that the towers were actually brought down by explosives).
They also had a scientist do an experiment about use of cell phones in air planes. Well he found out that the succes rate of a call from the cruising height of an aircraft was like .006!! So how did all these people call their family members.

Honestly, watch this video, even if you don't believe it in the end it's worth the time because of the interest factor.

tell me...if it was caused by explosions...how the hell did the people know the pinpoint location to set up the bombs?

for this to work...they would need to know beforehand where the planes would hit so the explosions could coincide with the planes hitting the building.

and even if you planted bombs everywhere throughout the wtc because you didnt know where the planes would hit...there would have been evidence of explosives in the rubble.

you also have to remember that SOME people used the cell. others used the phones already on the plane.

[FallingOut]

Sorry, but i'll take CNN and Fox News over anything Tom Delonge and Fat Mike says.

I am not getting information from Fat Mike or Tom Delonge, thank you. Tom was presenting the idea, and saying to look at other places where evidence is. Please, people, at least take a look at some stuff, its not that hard.

[selftitled85]

and then you also need to think of the fact that the plan had been talked about since the mid 90's. if the plan had been concocted in the 90s and was in the set up phase by the late 90s and then instituted in 2001 then you need to realize that the Bush Admin could not have played an integral part in the plan if the govt set it up.

[selftitled85]

I am not getting information from Fat Mike or Tom Delonge, thank you. Tom was presenting the idea, and saying to look at other places where evidence is. Please, people, at least take a look at some stuff, its not that hard.

ive seen both videos.

[Ambulance X]

Sorry, but i'll take CNN and Fox News over anything Tom Delonge and Fat Mike says.

ditto

[wessa]

tell me...if it was caused by explosions...how the hell did the people know the pinpoint location to set up the bombs?

for this to work...they would need to know beforehand where the planes would hit so the explosions could coincide with the planes hitting the building.

and even if you planted bombs everywhere throughout the wtc because you didnt know where the planes would hit...there would have been evidence of explosives in the rubble.

you also have to remember that SOME people used the cell. others used the phones already on the plane.


it didn't work like that, the explosions happened after. Plus they have interviews with tons of firefighters who recounted hearing and feeling multiple explosions. I can't recount all the information from the film, you just gotta watch it.

[AnotherTale...]

All the conservatives on this site need to realize that the world is changing. You need to watch that video even though you may not believe in it you have to admit that all the facts show that something could have happened. I don't care if you like or don't like Bush just watch the video and then say your view. and watch it with an open mind, if you don't that it being ignorant.

[AnotherTale...]

tell me...if it was caused by explosions...how the hell did the people know the pinpoint location to set up the bombs?

for this to work...they would need to know beforehand where the planes would hit so the explosions could coincide with the planes hitting the building.

and even if you planted bombs everywhere throughout the wtc because you didnt know where the planes would hit...there would have been evidence of explosives in the rubble.

you also have to remember that SOME people used the cell. others used the phones already on the plane.

did you watch the video? everything was staged. the explosives were known where to be placed due to the fact that they made by a demolition team. just watch the video and all the answers will be shown as to what could have happened.

[I am all talk]

did you watch the video? everything was staged. the explosives were known where to be placed due to the fact that they made by a demolition team. just watch the video and all the answers will be shown as to what could have happened.
I have a huge problem with people like you accepting this as fact. Loose change raised questions but in no way did it solve the matter. It is not a conviction by any means. Loose change is nothing more than the opinions of those film makers and how they think it went down. To take it as absolute truth is ridiculous.

[justinevans]

anyone can twist videos to make you believe things didn't happen. I'm sure someone could come in and video tape you taking a shit and twist it around that the shit was already in the toilet and you were just faking it.

Also, Bin Laden has been a wanted criminal for awhile. He accepted the attacks. Al-Queda accepted these attacks. They claimed they were happy for the attacks. We froze his assets. Do you think Bin Laden was willing to give all this up just so America could blow up their own building and then we could come and kill people that belonged to him?

Are you serious?

For every conservative that sucks, there are three or four liberals that make the conservative look like Einstein.

[cuetheflames]

You are incredibly naive. Have you bothered to even take a look at the evidence? I doubt it. You should actually take some time, and look at the evidence. Its the most ignorant thing to say? Ok fucker, how about this: To completely accept every single thing you hear on fucking CNN and Fox News without any doubt is the most ignorant thing you can do. Take one minute out of your life and actually consider that everything they say might not be true. It is more possible than you might think. I know it sounds crazy to think about, but actually open up your mind, take a look, and think about it.

HAHA NAIVE?

and your gonna talk to me about evidence?

the hundreds of families on tv and in the news that mourn about lost husbands and fathers and sisters and mothers. dont even talk about evidence your a fucking joke.

[justinevans]

You are incredibly naive. Have you bothered to even take a look at the evidence? I doubt it. You should actually take some time, and look at the evidence. Its the most ignorant thing to say? Ok fucker, how about this: To completely accept every single thing you hear on fucking CNN and Fox News without any doubt is the most ignorant thing you can do. Take one minute out of your life and actually consider that everything they say might not be true. It is more possible than you might think. I know it sounds crazy to think about, but actually open up your mind, take a look, and think about it.

hey douche -- cnn hates the president. they would have put this video on if it were true.

[wessa]

anyone can twist videos to make you believe things didn't happen. I'm sure someone could come in and video tape you taking a shit and twist it around that the shit was already in the toilet and you were just faking it.

Also, Bin Laden has been a wanted criminal for awhile. He accepted the attacks. Al-Queda accepted these attacks. They claimed they were happy for the attacks. We froze his assets. Do you think Bin Laden was willing to give all this up just so America could blow up their own building and then we could come and kill people that belonged to him?

Are you serious?

For every conservative that sucks, there are three or four liberals that make the conservative look like Einstein.


first i agree with the person that you can't automaticall take everything you see for fact, but the video uses a lot of factual material (goverment documents, video, scientific information, etc.).

As for Bin Laden, that is what i said when the video started. I was like "Bin Laden admitted it, so how could it have been the US." Well first they said that bin laden met with CIA officials less than a month before the attacks (i forget the actual time). Also, in a message to al jazeera a little while after the attacks bin laden says that the US blaming him for attacks that he didn't do.
And the actual video that the US received with bin laden admitting the attacks. Well they showed that, and i never noticed it before but it really doesn't looke that much like bin laden. It is a crappy tape and he looks a little weird. Plus, one of the biggest things, the US intelligence does have info about bin laden and one of those things is that he is left handed, yet in the video "bin laden" is seen writing something with his right hand.
This is gonna sound like a broken record, there are like thirty more things in addition to that which will make you say "what the fuck..."

[FallingOut]

HAHA NAIVE?

and your gonna talk to me about evidence?

the hundreds of families on tv and in the news that mourn about lost husbands and fathers and sisters and mothers. dont even talk about evidence your a fucking joke.

Yes, you are naive if you think everything is EXACTLY how CNN says it is. You are fucking stupid. This has nothing to do with being FUCKING LIBERAL you douche bags. There is very REALISTIC EVIDENCE on SEVERAL websites, and from FUCKING PHYSICISTS. Not just ONE video that has facts that may be twisted. I accept that they might be twisted. But there is SO MUCH EVIDENCE that is believable, if you just think about it. You people are so fucking dumb it makes me sick. You just accept everything on TV. Its hilarious. Open up your goddamn little immature minds for one second.

[cal1082]

Yes, to open your mind you must narrow your mind by only looking at very one sided websites. As presented in this thread. If you don't your not open minded.

Yes, that's how you open your mind.

[birdman]

So lets pretend for a second that what the Loose Change video is alleging is true. If the government was that hellbent on getting the american people to follow them blindly through fear and manipulation, then why wouldnt the administration fabricate the findings of WMDs in Iraq, or the capture of Bin Laden. Both would be fairly easy to pull off, and would only help Bush gain more support for his cause. So why wouldnt Bush have done that?

[preppyak]

possible yes...

plausible...hell fucking no.
exactly...

All the things that made sense in the conspiracy theories have been debunked by scientific reports...I think Popular Mechanics was the magazine that published the major thing proving it all wrong

[justinevans]

Yes, you are naive if you think everything is EXACTLY how CNN says it is. You are fucking stupid. This has nothing to do with being FUCKING LIBERAL you douche bags. There is very REALISTIC EVIDENCE on SEVERAL websites, and from FUCKING PHYSICISTS. Not just ONE video that has facts that may be twisted. I accept that they might be twisted. But there is SO MUCH EVIDENCE that is believable, if you just think about it. You people are so fucking dumb it makes me sick. You just accept everything on TV. Its hilarious. Open up your goddamn little immature minds for one second.

And you accept websites and "realistic" evidence?

What is the point you are trying to prove anyway?

It is not this, it is something us people look for to bad-mouth the government.

It is like the fucking boy who cries wolf. It gets old after awhile.

Why are the other bombings not "manufactured" by the government or anything else that would help raise support for the president?

The main argument for awhile is that the president sat there and read books to children?

Grow up a little and realize that Bin Laden and people alike do not hate just the American government. They hate you, me, and everything else that we stand for.

[Imallout007]

as much as i read this consipiracy stuff...i say fuck that, if this shit was planned then why did so many people die. If it was planned it would of been done on a weekend were nobody was around to minimize casualites. Why did the our heros, the cops, fighterfighters go in and try to save ev1. Think of all the families of the cops, firefighters, and even the nation if we found out this was planned. We, would loose all credibility as a superpower and be the dammed county.

I say it again, for everything there is a website that has a hoax for it. You are not to believe everything a website and or CNN tells you, because almost every TV station and website hates Bush with a passion, and cant wait til he leaves office. You guys dont know what went down that day unless u lived it and were effected in some way by it like i was.

[PowderedMilkMan]

Yes, you are naive if you think everything is EXACTLY how CNN says it is. You are fucking stupid. This has nothing to do with being FUCKING LIBERAL you douche bags. There is very REALISTIC EVIDENCE on SEVERAL websites, and from FUCKING PHYSICISTS. Not just ONE video that has facts that may be twisted. I accept that they might be twisted. But there is SO MUCH EVIDENCE that is believable, if you just think about it. You people are so fucking dumb it makes me sick. You just accept everything on TV. Its hilarious. Open up your goddamn little immature minds for one second.

actually it has a lot to do with being liberal. The media is extremely liberal, and would love to expose something like this if it were true. Yet, the only time I've heard of this video is from this website. So why haven't liberal newspapers like the New York Times or Washington Post reported about this video? You know that if there were truth to these videos, those newspapers would be more than happy to report about them.

i have to quote my friend and his sports blog when he addressed it a couple weeks ago regarding Charlie Sheen.
"For years Charlie Sheen and people who buy into his theory have been trying to convince the world that George W. Bush's administration has been the worst in history. The 2000 election, Iraq, Hurricane Katrina, high gas prices, global warming, CIA leaks, bin Laden, Saddam; Bush has screwed up with every situation that has come up during his time in the White House, they say. So if that's the case, how did this bumbling, ineffective fool then pull off the greatest conspiracy in the history of the known world??!!
In essence, this is Sheen's theory: George Bush is the biggest idiot every to walk the earth... Except when fooling six billion people into believing that terrorists hijacked planes, crashed them into three U.S. landmarks and then covered it up with so effectively that nobody but Charlie Sheen could figure it out.
Doesn't this seem ridiculous to anybody else? On one hand, Sheen believes Bush is a barely functional human being. On the other, he thinks that this same man is capable of duping the entire world into believing that he (and his people) somehow planned, executed and covered-up the worst disaster in our nation's history. "

[believethehyph]

Absolutebullshit.net.

[sweethypocrisy]

Ignorance is thinking that this isnt plausible. Its a scary thing to think the government would do something like this, especially because it changes life as we know it, but ive come to accept it as true. Anyone with any common sense or logic would know that the governments story is fucked up.

[cal1082]

Ignorancy is thinking that this isnt plausible. Its a scary thing to think the government would do something like this, especially because it changes life as we know it, but ive come to accept it as true. Anyone with any common sense or logic would know that the governments story is fucked up.

I think it could be plausible, but when every hard fact points towards Al Qaeda being at the lead you should ask yourself if you just really want to believe the Bush admin. did it. When all you can point to is "unknown" or "questionable" things that don't add up on that day then you have a weak, weak argument.

When you can point to multiple confessions, phone calls, voice recordings, body identifications, etc......., then you have hard facts and a much much stronger case.

[sweethypocrisy]

People just dismiss this because they dont want to believe it, or because they think people are saying it just to discredit the bush administration. and to whoever said about the families mourning, THE PEOPLE DID DIE.

See, all these theories would be discredited if the government would release the security footage from the gas station by the pentagon. thats it, one tape. but the confiscated it two minutes after the explosion. also, a few days after 911, the government had pictures and full bios of the terrorists. if it was such a surprise attack that they knew nothing about, howd they conjure all that info within a few days?

im not saying the government did this persay, but i am saying they knew about it or collaborated with terrorists to do this.

[sweethypocrisy]

watch the movie..that has fact. that has video evidence, eyewitness acounts, mathematical equations, everything.

heres one thing, the FBI claimed to have identified a hijacker by his passport that fell out of the plane onto the streets of new york. however, the black boxes of that plane were destroyed. now, how likely is it that black boxes that are made of one of the most resistant materials known to man, were destroyed, but paper wasnt?

[cal1082]

watch the movie..that has fact. that has video evidence, eyewitness acounts, mathematical equations, everything.

heres one thing, the FBI claimed to have identified a hijacker by his passport that fell out of the plane onto the streets of new york. however, the black boxes of that plane were destroyed. now, how likely is it that black boxes that are made of one of the most resistant materials known to man, were destroyed, but paper wasnt?

See again, this isnt hard facts. What your presenting is stuff that doesnt make sense to you (and many others), so in turn, you are assuming that because you dont understand something the Bush administration is involved.

Are you not getting my point? There's a difference between, "Well A, B, and C don't add up and make sense" and "We have confessions, phone calls, voice recordings, identified bodies, etc....."

What are some of these hard facts that implicate the US government? There must at least be one? That's fine if you believe the US government was in it with Al Qaeda, but you should be able to point to somethign concrete at least. And not just, "Well we dont have video footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon"

[wessa]

So lets pretend for a second that what the Loose Change video is alleging is true. If the government was that hellbent on getting the american people to follow them blindly through fear and manipulation, then why wouldnt the administration fabricate the findings of WMDs in Iraq, or the capture of Bin Laden. Both would be fairly easy to pull off, and would only help Bush gain more support for his cause. So why wouldnt Bush have done that?


how could they fabricate the capture of bin laden. All he has to do is release a new video with him holding that day's paper and people know he is still around.

[cuetheflames]

Yes, you are naive if you think everything is EXACTLY how CNN says it is. You are fucking stupid. This has nothing to do with being FUCKING LIBERAL you douche bags. There is very REALISTIC EVIDENCE on SEVERAL websites, and from FUCKING PHYSICISTS. Not just ONE video that has facts that may be twisted. I accept that they might be twisted. But there is SO MUCH EVIDENCE that is believable, if you just think about it. You people are so fucking dumb it makes me sick. You just accept everything on TV. Its hilarious. Open up your goddamn little immature minds for one second.

your completely retarded.

its people like you that make this country a shit hole.

[sweethypocrisy]

your completely retarded.

its people like you that make this country a shit hole. its ignorant fucks like you that make it a shit hole. and you call him retarded when you dont even have correct grammar. you obviously haven't watched the video, watch loose change front to back and then come in here and say something isnt wrong.

[sweethypocrisy]

See again, this isnt hard facts. What your presenting is stuff that doesnt make sense to you (and many others), so in turn, you are assuming that because you dont understand something the Bush administration is involved.

Are you not getting my point? There's a difference between, "Well A, B, and C don't add up and make sense" and "We have confessions, phone calls, voice recordings, identified bodies, etc....."

What are some of these hard facts that implicate the US government? There must at least be one? That's fine if you believe the US government was in it with Al Qaeda, but you should be able to point to somethign concrete at least. And not just, "Well we dont have video footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon"
Well, the governments the ones telling us all these things that dont make sense. these lies. but once again, im not saying the government did it, but if you think they didnt know all about it before hand or have something to do with it then you are an idiot.

[selftitled85]

Well, the governments the ones telling us all these things that dont make sense. these lies. but once again, im not saying the government did it, but if you think they didnt know all about it before hand or have something to do with it then you are an idiot.

the govt may have had the intel but that doesnt mean they knew what to do with it...the intelligence community was shitty back in 01. hence for the overhaul. there were red flags everywhere.

and yes i have seen loose change...and i am a liberal.

but i find these theories to be nothing more than a theory...and until some type of concrete proof shows up...i wont think otherwise.

[sweethypocrisy]

the govt may have had the intel but that doesnt mean they knew what to do with it...the intelligence community was shitty back in 01. hence for the overhaul. there were red flags everywhere.

and yes i have seen loose change...and i am a liberal.

but i find these theories to be nothing more than a theory...and until some type of concrete proof shows up...i wont think otherwise.
but theres no concrete proof for either side, so youll just go with the one that makes you feel safe.

[selftitled85]

but theres no concrete proof for either side, so youll just go with the one that makes you feel safe.

no...im going with the more plausible side.

[Ozmodiar]

Loose Change is not a documentary, and to say that it tells the truth is incredibily dishonest. The movie is full of misinformation and logical fallacies, this file disects loose change point by point http://tinyurl.com/epp82. Read this file while watching the movie and you'll see what a shitty "documentary" this is.

[sweethypocrisy]

Loose Change is not a documentary, and to say that it tells the truth is incredibily dishonest. The movie is full of misinformation and logical fallacies, this file disects loose change point by point http://tinyurl.com/epp82. Read this file while watching the movie and you'll see what a shitty "documentary" this is. my beliefs really arent based on loose change, my friends mom has several books on the issue as well.

edit: this is a very interesting document...
now i dont know what to believe.....

[sweethypocrisy]

everyone download the word document...it completely destroys loose change..

[ClapClapSnap]

my beliefs really arent based on loose change, my friends mom has several books on the issue as well.

edit: this is a very interesting document...
now i dont know what to believe.....

just accept the fact that you'll never get the whole story. people are still talking about JFK...look at it that way. the war and everything surrounding it is our generation's vietnam.

i've read so much shit and 9/11, and i've seen a couple vids [including loose change] and i still don't have a solid opinion on what happened.

[cal1082]

Well, the governments the ones telling us all these things that dont make sense. these lies. but once again, im not saying the government did it, but if you think they didnt know all about it before hand or have something to do with it then you are an idiot.

Then put some facts out there that directly implicate them. If you dont know any then shut up cause you just look pathetic.

It's not asking a lot for such a big claim, you think?

[sweethypocrisy]

Then put some facts out there that directly implicate them. If you dont know any then shut up cause you just look pathetic.

It's not asking a lot for such a big claim, you think?
you need to shut up, because if youll recall i said this:
im not saying the government did this persay, but i am saying they knew about it or collaborated with terrorists to do this.

and this
but once again, im not saying the government did it, but if you think they didnt know all about it before hand or have something to do with it then you are an idiot.

and now that ive read that word document i dont really believe any of the conspiracy.

[love2hateme]

I don't think so I mean yes the twin towers might have been terrorist. but I saw pictures of the pentagon and there is no way that was hit by a plane. it just kind of makes you think what the goverment is hiding from us you know.

[lfdfforever]

Even if the goverment did do it. What are we going to do? Shoot every person who planned it and let it happen.

[love2hateme]

Even if the goverment did do it. What are we going to do? Shoot every person who planned it and let it happen.

bassicaly if they did it tells us that the people that control our country are a bunch of power hungary douches and you cant believe anything they tell you anymore

[lfdfforever]

bassicaly if they did it tells us that the people that control our country are a bunch of power hungary douches and you cant believe anything they tell you anymore So we are fucked ethier way, pretty much.

[love2hateme]

So we are fucked ethier way, pretty much.

for sure

[justinevans]

our whole country is going to hell anyway. not just our government.

[lightcollapse]

okay, when the US landed on the moon, a bunch of people called conspiracy.

they pointed out all these things that looked like 'fact' etc. if there was internet, they would have made a similar video and we would have ate it up.

the fact is, this is probably the same case. i've watched the video, i thought it was fucking cool. i'm curious.

but theres about a 1% chance its relevant at all to the truth.

[radiofriendly]

okay, when the US landed on the moon, a bunch of people called conspiracy.

they pointed out all these things that looked like 'fact' etc. if there was internet, they would have made a similar video and we would have ate it up.

the fact is, this is probably the same case. i've watched the video, i thought it was fucking cool. i'm curious.

but theres about a 1% chance its relevant at all to the truth.

exactly. There were and will ALWAYS be conspiracy theories for every great world event and tragedy. you just have to use common sense with each one. it doesn't matter how much footage is released or how much contradicting analysis there is. there are always conspiracy theories.

[oldwirehands]

I skipped most of the pages because the arguement was just becoming redundant.

To the people who completely think it is impossible:

Anything is possible. So sit down.

There are questions to be answered that the government isn't answering.

Its not like people were implying it was a government conspiracy from the begining. There were experts who said certain things were not possible days after the event. They didn't come out and say "The government did it", they just said that it couldn't happen the way the media and the government were saying it happened.

To those saying that these aren't facts:

What is your definition of a fact? Do you think that the first two towers to ever collapse in history because of a fire, is a fact? No, how could that be possible? Or how about executing a 330 degree turn at 530mph? Oh, that one is a fact, right? I can keep going on. So please, give me your definition of a fact.

Either way, people died. Its sick to think about it any way you want.

[Adeniz19]

how could they fabricate the capture of bin laden. All he has to do is release a new video with him holding that day's paper and people know he is still around.bin laden works for the government... you didnt know that!?

[A picasso blue]

so... the government killed 3,000 of its citizens why?

[FallingOut]

so... the government killed 3,000 of its citizens why?

Bush once said in an interview that if he had as much "capitol" like his father did when he was president, in other words, the power to make people rally behind you since you are in times of war, he would never let it go. Since 9/11, he can use "terror" to back any single thing he wants to do. People, I am not saying that this conspiracy is true, I just hope that everybody at least can consider this some kind of possibilty. I dont know if its true or not, I just think its possible. All the government would have to do to convince me it happed was release the tape of the plane hitting the Pentagon, since it was seen on so many cameras.

[histrionics22]

Bush once said in an interview that if he had as much "capitol" like his father did when he was president, in other words, the power to make people rally behind you since you are in times of war, he would never let it go. Since 9/11, he can use "terror" to back any single thing he wants to do. People, I am not saying that this conspiracy is true, I just hope that everybody at least can consider this some kind of possibilty. I dont know if its true or not, I just think its possible. All the government would have to do to convince me it happed was release the tape of the plane hitting the Pentagon, since it was seen on so many cameras.

There's a little Fox Mulder in everyone. The only problem is, the smart ones are able to differentiate reality from X-Files.

[cuetheflames]

but theres no concrete proof for either side, so youll just go with the one that makes you feel safe.

theres more than concrete proof for 9/11, you are so fucking paranoid. why cant you just trust what happen that there was hundreds of innocent deaths.

your so fucking stupid, cant a tragedy take place without someone questioning it.

how can we be a united country when you don't even fucking trust the people around you.

[cuetheflames]

Bush once said in an interview that if he had as much "capitol" like his father did when he was president, in other words, the power to make people rally behind you since you are in times of war, he would never let it go. Since 9/11, he can use "terror" to back any single thing he wants to do. People, I am not saying that this conspiracy is true, I just hope that everybody at least can consider this some kind of possibilty. I dont know if its true or not, I just think its possible. All the government would have to do to convince me it happed was release the tape of the plane hitting the Pentagon, since it was seen on so many cameras.

anyone can take something ANYONE says and twist it to make it seem like something else maybe happened.

this is what i found on one of those popular conspiracy sites with all those people that supposbly think they know what they are talking about.

"The truth is out there." So went the tagline of the popular TV sci-fi series, The X-Files. Sometimes it can seem that the truth is way "out there," as one tries to sift through the confusion of conflicting statements of government officials, mainstream media organizations, alternative media outlets, witnesses, experts, and so-called experts. -

yep, I believe that to get the real concrete answers you should turn to X-files and the sci-fi channel. those script writers for the the fiction cable network know all about the secrets of the government, we should probably trust them with all our decisions from now on.

you people are a fucking joke.

[cuetheflames]

I guess if Tom Delonge says it, it must be true huh?

[ides of march]

i'd take a pinecone over fox news

[oldwirehands]

anyone can take something ANYONE says and twist it to make it seem like something else maybe happened.

this is what i found on one of those popular conspiracy sites with all those people that supposbly think they know what they are talking about.

"The truth is out there." So went the tagline of the popular TV sci-fi series, The X-Files. Sometimes it can seem that the truth is way "out there," as one tries to sift through the confusion of conflicting statements of government officials, mainstream media organizations, alternative media outlets, witnesses, experts, and so-called experts. -

yep, I believe that to get the real concrete answers you should turn to X-files and the sci-fi channel. those script writers for the the fiction cable network know all about the secrets of the government, we should probably trust them with all our decisions from now on.

you people are a fucking joke.

I believe you are a joke for avoiding my arguement.

Back up your opinion before you attack someone else's, please.

[oldwirehands]

I guess if Tom Delonge says it, it must be true huh?

Stop using this as an arguement. Its old and its not working.

[CrucifiedHeart]

yeah im too lazy to read all these pages or that whole site.

can someone please summarize the main points of evidence for this theory?
thanks

[oldwirehands]

theres more than concrete proof for 9/11, you are so fucking paranoid. why cant you just trust what happen that there was hundreds of innocent deaths.

your so fucking stupid, cant a tragedy take place without someone questioning it.

how can we be a united country when you don't even fucking trust the people around you.

This seems to be completely over your head. No one is questioning that people in New York died, they are questioning how they died.

[oldwirehands]

yeah im too lazy to read all these pages or that whole site.

can someone please summarize the main points of evidence for this theory?
thanks

Just watch the movie. It lays out the whole theory quite well.

[histrionics22]

Stop using this as an arguement. Its old and its not working.

You'd be surprised how much it works. Why do you think celebrities came out against Bush last election? The American public is dumber than you think, especially the portion of the American public that visits this website.

[oldwirehands]

You'd be surprised how much it works. Why do you think celebrities came out against Bush last election? The American public is dumber than you think, especially the portion of the American public that visits this website.

But people, as myself, do not need Tom DeLonge to give his two cents to change our opinion. I had watched Loose Change some time ago. I understand that celebrities have their impact on the public but not everyone and not for most of the people who posted in this thread.

[histrionics22]

But people, as myself, do not need Tom DeLonge to give his two cents to change our opinion. I had watched Loose Change some time ago. I understand that celebrities have their impact on the public but not everyone and not for most of the people who posted in this thread.

I still think you'd be surprised.

The 9/11 conspiracy is bogus. Next we'll be saying Bush's ancestors were in cahoots with Nostradamus when he wrote his texts.

[oldwirehands]

I still think you'd be surprised.

The 9/11 conspiracy is bogus. Next we'll be saying Bush's ancestors were in cahoots with Nostradamus when he wrote his texts.

If it is bogus, then why doesn't the government answer simple questions? Why were the Twin Towers the first to collapse because of a fire?

[histrionics22]

If it is bogus, then why doesn't the government answer simple questions? Why were the Twin Towers the first to collapse because of a fire?

You do realize two 757's did crash into them first. THEN a fire.

[FallingOut]

I guess if Tom Delonge says it, it must be true huh?

Really shows your maturity. Who the fuck ever said that if Tom said it, it must be true?? I sure as hell never made that claim whatsoever. I just wanted to know what people thought after maybe some new people heard about it from Tom. But, really, Its ok to not believe something just because you dont want to. Dont worry, it happens.

P.S. It was really nice beating your basketball team this year at my school. All your loyal fans came all the way up here to watch your team get killed.

[love2hateme]

You do realize two 757's did crash into them first. THEN a fire.

you got to mention gas and the speed they were fly its not stupid to say that they caught on fire

[sweethypocrisy]

i just reread the word document and thats just as much bs as it claims loose change to be. sometimes it gives things that it says are facts without quoting a source, and sometimes it just says "false" without saying why its false or what is true. bullshit.

[love2hateme]

i know the goverment is hiding alot of things about 9/11 twin tower i have no clue what. but if you look at the pictures behind the pentagon there is no way a plane hit that, and there is proof that a plane did not hit it so what did?

[Justin_stacy]

i know the goverment is hiding alot of things about 9/11 twin tower i have no clue what. but if you look at the pictures behind the pentagon there is no way a plane hit that, and there is proof that a plane did not hit it so what did?

actually that's not true........there IS proof that a plane hit it.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

Just a simple search of yahoo would have shown you that that statement has no validity.......

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/13.jpg

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PENTPLANE/aedrive6.jpg (plane wheel inside pentagon wreckage)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PENTPLANE/Damage9.jpg (plane wreckage inside pentagon)

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/parts.html (landing gear inside pentagon)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PENTPLANE/pentagonplanetire.jpg (plane tire outside pentagon)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/overview.jpg (large chunck of plane outside pentagon)

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/yardparts.html (people holding pieces of the plane)

Let us also not forget the eyewitness.....
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthre...light=pentagon

...more often then not the clear rational, obvious, answer is the right one.

[FallingOut]

actually that's not true........there IS proof that a plane hit it.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

Just a simple search of yahoo would have shown you that that statement has no validity.......

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/13.jpg

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PENTPLANE/aedrive6.jpg (plane wheel inside pentagon wreckage)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PENTPLANE/Damage9.jpg (plane wreckage inside pentagon)

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/parts.html (landing gear inside pentagon)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PENTPLANE/pentagonplanetire.jpg (plane tire outside pentagon)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/overview.jpg (large chunck of plane outside pentagon)

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/yardparts.html (people holding pieces of the plane)

Let us also not forget the eyewitness.....
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthre...light=pentagon

...more often then not the clear rational, obvious, answer is the right one.


All of those pictures show just one piece each. One. And I love how they say, look at the damage from the wings in the building, when its just one little thin strip below the windows. You think HUGE plane wings are just going to cut a nice, thin little line in a building? Insane.

[oldwirehands]

actually that's not true........there IS proof that a plane hit it.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

Just a simple search of yahoo would have shown you that that statement has no validity.......

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/13.jpg

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PENTPLANE/aedrive6.jpg (plane wheel inside pentagon wreckage)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PENTPLANE/Damage9.jpg (plane wreckage inside pentagon)

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/parts.html (landing gear inside pentagon)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/PENTPLANE/pentagonplanetire.jpg (plane tire outside pentagon)

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/overview.jpg (large chunck of plane outside pentagon)

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/yardparts.html (people holding pieces of the plane)

Let us also not forget the eyewitness.....
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthre...light=pentagon

...more often then not the clear rational, obvious, answer is the right one.

Those aren't parts to the plane that they claimed to hit the building. In the video, they showed what parts should have been thereand compared it to the ones that were there.

Also, they claimed that the plane skidded on the ground before it hit the Petagon. The lawn wasn't scratched at all. You'd think a huge commercial jet would have left something now wouldn't you?

I would also like to point out that people did not smell any jet fuel there at all. They smelled something that would have came from a bomb.

Another thing: Did you see the hole in the steel-reinforced walls? I think a plane would have made a bigger hole than that.

[oldwirehands]

You do realize two 757's did crash into them first. THEN a fire.

If the planes had anything to do with the collapse, they wouldn't have fell the way they did. When you push something, does it just stand still and collapse on itself?

Also, it is pretty blatent that there were multiple explosions on other floors. Don't take my word for it though. Ask the firefighters that were in the building.

Why were all the bomb sniffing dogs convieniently taken out of the building well before the attack? Why were all the guards' hours cut to only 12 a week?

Just for the record, a plan has hit a building before. That building did not collapse.

I've watched Loose Change twice now and I suggest you watch it a couple more times to. I know I might just watch it again today.

[cuetheflames]

Really shows your maturity. Who the fuck ever said that if Tom said it, it must be true?? I sure as hell never made that claim whatsoever. I just wanted to know what people thought after maybe some new people heard about it from Tom. But, really, Its ok to not believe something just because you dont want to. Dont worry, it happens.

P.S. It was really nice beating your basketball team this year at my school. All your loyal fans came all the way up here to watch your team get killed.

HAHA OMG ARE YOU FOR REAL?

"
9/11 "Conspiracy" or truth?
As Jason mentioned on the front page today, Tom Delonge is one of a large group of people who believe the government was behind the 9/11 attacks. I have personally read a lot of the evidence on this, and watched a movie, "Loose Change, 2nd Edition." For those of you who have actually looked into this, what is your opinion? I personally believe it is VERY possible, but I cannot say that I am 100 percent sure. Just wanted to get everybodys opinions. And please, at least look into it before you go calling me an idiot. Thanks. "

yep, that was a nice little pointless sentence right there to get all the Delonge fans on your side.

even if the whole conspiracy is at all evident and possible, i still think you are a big fucking retard.

PS: i dont care about basketball, so shove it up your ass. We'll play your little podunk school in football or lacrosse or anything else any day and pound your hill shit asses into the ground.

[justinevans]

If the planes had anything to do with the collapse, they wouldn't have fell the way they did. When you push something, does it just stand still and collapse on itself?

Also, it is pretty blatent that there were multiple explosions on other floors. Don't take my word for it though. Ask the firefighters that were in the building.

Why were all the bomb sniffing dogs convieniently taken out of the building well before the attack? Why were all the guards' hours cut to only 12 a week?

Just for the record, a plan has hit a building before. That building did not collapse.

I've watched Loose Change twice now and I suggest you watch it a couple more times to. I know I might just watch it again today.

Yes, but they also said it was some sort of cargo plane. That is false. My father was there. Walking towards the WTC for a meeting.

Also, it was September, which means air conditions were probably on. Have you ever heard an air condition just suddenly stop during a power outage, let alone explode.

His meeting was cancelled that day though before the attacks.

[oldwirehands]

HAHA OMG ARE YOU FOR REAL?

"
9/11 "Conspiracy" or truth?
As Jason mentioned on the front page today, Tom Delonge is one of a large group of people who believe the government was behind the 9/11 attacks. I have personally read a lot of the evidence on this, and watched a movie, "Loose Change, 2nd Edition." For those of you who have actually looked into this, what is your opinion? I personally believe it is VERY possible, but I cannot say that I am 100 percent sure. Just wanted to get everybodys opinions. And please, at least look into it before you go calling me an idiot. Thanks. "

yep, that was a nice little pointless sentence right there to get all the Delonge fans on your side.

even if the whole conspiracy is at all evident and possible, i still think you are a big fucking retard.

PS: i dont care about basketball, so shove it up your ass. We'll play your little podunk school in football or lacrosse or anything else any day and pound your hill shit asses into the ground.

I don't think Tom is pushing the idea on anyone. Its the media that presents the fact and the certain people take it to heart. Usually the people who act like this are kids and unfortunately, you can be 28 years old and still act like a kid. People are gullable and ignorant.

[oldwirehands]

Yes, but they also said it was some sort of cargo plane. That is false. My father was there. Walking towards the WTC for a meeting.

Also, it was September, which means air conditions were probably on. Have you ever heard an air condition just suddenly stop during a power outage, let alone explode.

His meeting was cancelled that day though before the attacks.

I don't know if it was a plane, or what kind of plane.

I never heard of an air conditioning system exploding because of a power outage. Anyways, I'm sure of it did, the explosion wouldn't have been near the right temperature to soften or melt the steel.

[justinevans]

I don't think Tom is pushing the idea on anyone. Its the media that presents the fact and the certain people take it to heart. Usually the people who act like this are kids and unfortunately, you can be 28 years old and still act like a kid. People are gullable and ignorant.

celebrities fuck everything up. I love how celebrities sit there and talk about shit just because they have the microphone, but they'll never admit that shitty movie they made or why prices are rising because so are costs because they won't accept that cheaper check.

[justinevans]

I don't know if it was a plane, or what kind of plane.

I never heard of an air conditioning system exploding because of a power outage. Anyways, I'm sure of it did, the explosion wouldn't have been near the right temperature to soften or melt the steel.

True. I am not sure exactly, but this is a crazy mystery.

Either way, the first WTC attacks and the Yemen attacks were enough to go after the terrorists.

[oldwirehands]

True. I am not sure exactly, but this is a crazy mystery.

Either way, the first WTC attacks and the Yemen attacks were enough to go after the terrorists.

I do believe our government had something to do with the 9/11 attacks. Mainly the Bush administration. The way they have ran things has been very shady.

Either way, its the past and there is nothing anyone can do about it. I do have a feeling though, that if the future administrations run our country like the Bush one is, they will eventually slip up and hello American Revelution part two I hope I am not around if that ever happens.

[love2hateme]

Those aren't parts to the plane that they claimed to hit the building. In the video, they showed what parts should have been thereand compared it to the ones that were there.

Also, they claimed that the plane skidded on the ground before it hit the Petagon. The lawn wasn't scratched at all. You'd think a huge commercial jet would have left something now wouldn't you?

I would also like to point out that people did not smell any jet fuel there at all. They smelled something that would have came from a bomb.

Another thing: Did you see the hole in the steel-reinforced walls? I think a plane would have made a bigger hole than that.
thats what im saying

[histrionics22]

I do believe our government had something to do with the 9/11 attacks. Mainly the Bush administration. The way they have ran things has been very shady.

I dont think you realize how ridiculous this claim is. An administration that was just installed 8 months before the attacks. An adminisration that many claim hasnt done one thing right. An administration which congressmen were bickering about the people in Bush's cabinet well into March. You honesttly think an adminitsration like this would mastermind a worldwide plan like this in 8 months?

[histrionics22]

If the planes had anything to do with the collapse, they wouldn't have fell the way they did. When you push something, does it just stand still and collapse on itself?

Not with the design of the WTC. Do some research please.

Also, it is pretty blatent that there were multiple explosions on other floors. Don't take my word for it though. Ask the firefighters that were in the building.

There are always going to be other explosions when a 757 FILLED with fuel crashes into a building which has god knows how much electricity running through it.

Just for the record, a plan has hit a building before. That building did not collapse.

No 757 has ever hit a building before. The way this is presented in the film definitely has swayed you on this. "The WTCs were the FIRST BUILDINGS IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD to collapse froma plane hitting it."


I've watched Loose Change twice now and I suggest you watch it a couple more times to. I know I might just watch it again today.

Unless you are willing to look some other stuff up and read into both sides of the argument this is useless.

[sweethypocrisy]

There are always going to be other explosions when a 757 FILLED with fuel crashes into a building which has god knows how much electricity running through it.

Yet a passport managed to fly out of the plane and onto the streets?

[histrionics22]

Yet a passport managed to fly out of the plane and onto the streets?

Give me a source other than loose change.

In order for this to be a conspiracy, everything has to point that way. Unfortunately it doesn't.

[oldwirehands]

I dont think you realize how ridiculous this claim is. An administration that was just installed 8 months before the attacks. An adminisration that many claim hasnt done one thing right. An administration which congressmen were bickering about the people in Bush's cabinet well into March. You honesttly think an adminitsration like this would mastermind a worldwide plan like this in 8 months?

Not 8 months, years. You don't have to be in charge to make plans.

[histrionics22]

Not 8 months, years. You don't have to be in charge to make plans.


Hahahaha. Do you ever re-read your posts and think to yourself, "What am I writing?".

[oldwirehands]

Not with the design of the WTC. Do some research please.



There are always going to be other explosions when a 757 FILLED with fuel crashes into a building which has god knows how much electricity running through it.



No 757 has ever hit a building before. The way this is presented in the film definitely has swayed you on this. "The WTCs were the FIRST BUILDINGS IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD to collapse froma plane hitting it."




Unless you are willing to look some other stuff up and read into both sides of the argument this is useless.

The WTC was designed to withstand earthquakes, high winds, and several other things. I think it could take a plane compared to an earthquake crippling the foundation. Either way, if the planes did cause the buildings to collapse, it wouldn't have came STRAIGHT down.

That building was not as big as the WTC either. A 757 would have probably demolished it. I'd say the ratios between the sizes of the buildings and planes are similar. I'll have to look into that.

The explosions did not come from the floors the plane hit. Do you really think that a plane hitting a building would cause the foundation to crumble? I would think that the side the plane hit would be weakened and it would fall leaning toward that side. This did not happen.

I will do my own research starting this week.

[oldwirehands]

Hahahaha. Do you ever re-read your posts and think to yourself, "What am I writing?".

Does a terrorist have to run the country to attack it? That is what I'm trying to say. Criminals CAN organize crimes. It has happened.

[justinevans]

I do believe our government had something to do with the 9/11 attacks. Mainly the Bush administration. The way they have ran things has been very shady.

Either way, its the past and there is nothing anyone can do about it. I do have a feeling though, that if the future administrations run our country like the Bush one is, they will eventually slip up and hello American Revelution part two I hope I am not around if that ever happens.

Really? The plans for the attacks began in 1996. This coming from people we have interrogated from the Al Queda? Did Clinton start it?

You're a fucking moron truthfully? When was the last time we really had a good president? Roosevelt looked great, but his new deal was actually terrible.

[oldwirehands]

The main arguement that everyone keeps ignoring is why doesn't the government answer these questions that are asked? Surely if they had nothing to hide, they would have an explanation for things. How come many of the victims' families want the same questions answered?

[oldwirehands]

Really? The plans for the attacks began in 1996. This coming from people we have interrogated from the Al Queda? Did Clinton start it?

You're a fucking moron truthfully? When was the last time we really had a good president? Roosevelt looked great, but his new deal was actually terrible.

My intelligence is not on trial here, there is no need to bring it up. Stick to the topic jackass.

Prove to me that the Bush administration did not have any plans for the attack and I'll prove to you they did.

[edit] I'll explain this post even further seeing that you probably won't comprehend it correctly. You're proof for your arguement has shown to be just as good as mine. My opinion is no greater than your's and your opinion is no greater than mine. This arguement is dead and all the only thing to do is agree to disagree.

[justinevans]

What I do not understand because there is all these conspiracies, why is there not one man willing to come out and say something?

All the al-queda know what happened. They know who planned it. If these people were not the terrorists and they are still alive, why do they not say something?

Also, I did some research on the collapse.

Nearly every large building has a redundant design that allows for loss of one primary structural member, such as a column. However, when multiple members fail, the shifting loads eventually overstress the adjacent members and the collapse occurs like a row of dominoes falling down.

The perimeter tube design of the WTC was highly redundant. It survived the loss of several exterior columns due to aircraft impact, but the ensuing fire led to other steel failures. Many structural engineers believe that the weak points—the limiting factors on design allowables—were the angle clips that held the floor joists between the columns on the perimeter wall and the core structure (see Figure 5). With a 700 Pa floor design allowable, each floor should have been able to support approximately 1,300 t beyond its own weight. The total weight of each tower was about 500,000 t.

As the joists on one or two of the most heavily burned floors gave way and the outer box columns began to bow outward, the floors above them also fell. The floor below (with its 1,300 t design capacity) could not support the roughly 45,000 t of ten floors (or more) above crashing down on these angle clips. This started the domino effect that caused the buildings to collapse within ten seconds, hitting bottom with an estimated speed of 200 km per hour. If it had been free fall, with no restraint, the collapse would have only taken eight seconds and would have impacted at 300 km/h.1 It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure. Third, given the near free-fall collapse, there was insufficient time for portions to attain significant lateral velocity. To summarize all of these points, a 500,000 t structure has too much inertia to fall in any direction other than nearly straight down.

Also,

The World Trade Center was not defectively designed. No designer of the WTC anticipated, nor should have anticipated, a 90,000 L Molotov cocktail on one of the building floors. Skyscrapers are designed to support themselves for three hours in a fire even if the sprinkler system fails to operate. This time should be long enough to evacuate the occupants. The WTC towers lasted for one to two hours—less than the design life, but only because the fire fuel load was so large. No normal office fires would fill 4,000 square meters of floor space in the seconds in which the WTC fire developed. Usually, the fire would take up to an hour to spread so uniformly across the width and breadth of the building. This was a very large and rapidly progressing fire (very high heat but not unusually high temperature).

[justinevans]

My intelligence is not on trial here, there is no need to bring it up. Stick to the topic jackass.

Prove to me that the Bush administration did not have any plans for the attack and I'll prove to you they did.

[edit] I'll explain this post even further seeing that you probably won't comprehend it correctly. You're proof for your arguement has shown to be just as good as mine. My opinion is no greater than your's and your opinion is no greater than mine. This arguement is dead and all the only thing to do is agree to disagree.

What things taking out of context by fat michael moore and people alike?

[oldwirehands]

What I do not understand because there is all these conspiracies, why is there not one man willing to come out and say something?

All the al-queda know what happened. They know who planned it. If these people were not the terrorists and they are still alive, why do they not say something?

Also, I did some research on the collapse.

Nearly every large building has a redundant design that allows for loss of one primary structural member, such as a column. However, when multiple members fail, the shifting loads eventually overstress the adjacent members and the collapse occurs like a row of dominoes falling down.

The perimeter tube design of the WTC was highly redundant. It survived the loss of several exterior columns due to aircraft impact, but the ensuing fire led to other steel failures. Many structural engineers believe that the weak points—the limiting factors on design allowables—were the angle clips that held the floor joists between the columns on the perimeter wall and the core structure (see Figure 5). With a 700 Pa floor design allowable, each floor should have been able to support approximately 1,300 t beyond its own weight. The total weight of each tower was about 500,000 t.

As the joists on one or two of the most heavily burned floors gave way and the outer box columns began to bow outward, the floors above them also fell. The floor below (with its 1,300 t design capacity) could not support the roughly 45,000 t of ten floors (or more) above crashing down on these angle clips. This started the domino effect that caused the buildings to collapse within ten seconds, hitting bottom with an estimated speed of 200 km per hour. If it had been free fall, with no restraint, the collapse would have only taken eight seconds and would have impacted at 300 km/h.1 It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure. Third, given the near free-fall collapse, there was insufficient time for portions to attain significant lateral velocity. To summarize all of these points, a 500,000 t structure has too much inertia to fall in any direction other than nearly straight down.

Also,

The World Trade Center was not defectively designed. No designer of the WTC anticipated, nor should have anticipated, a 90,000 L Molotov cocktail on one of the building floors. Skyscrapers are designed to support themselves for three hours in a fire even if the sprinkler system fails to operate. This time should be long enough to evacuate the occupants. The WTC towers lasted for one to two hours—less than the design life, but only because the fire fuel load was so large. No normal office fires would fill 4,000 square meters of floor space in the seconds in which the WTC fire developed. Usually, the fire would take up to an hour to spread so uniformly across the width and breadth of the building. This was a very large and rapidly progressing fire (very high heat but not unusually high temperature).

Al-Quida wouldn't say anything. They were apart of it. They would have to have been given something in return for cooperating. There are several possibilities but I believe what I believe because I do not trust our government. I do not like our country. If I didn't have family here and could afford it, I would move.

The company who provided the steel for the construction of the WTC said that the fuel could not reach the right temperature to cause the steel to melt or soften. I also recall the buildings collapsed only around 56 minutes after the planes hit. I can't remember exactly how many floors were on fire but I don't even think it was in the double digits. Like I said, I don't really have time to research this. I only know as much as I am told and what I've read which isn't much so I am not the man to be argueing with. I am just backing up my weak beliefs with weak info. It is all weak because I truely don't give a shit. People died. There is no real other way to look at it.

[justinevans]

Al-Quida wouldn't say anything. They were apart of it. They would have to have been given something in return for cooperating. There are several possibilities but I believe what I believe because I do not trust our government. I do not like our country. If I didn't have family here and could afford it, I would move.

The company who provided the steel for the construction of the WTC said that the fuel could not reach the right temperature to cause the steel to melt or soften. I also recall the buildings collapsed only around 56 minutes after the planes hit. I can't remember exactly how many floors were on fire but I don't even think it was in the double digits. Like I said, I don't really have time to research this. I only know as much as I am told and what I've read which isn't much so I am not the man to be argueing with. I am just backing up my weak beliefs with weak info. It is all weak because I truely don't give a shit. People died. There is no real other way to look at it.

Move...pussy. Where are you going to go? Canada? Still under American and British control behind the scenes. You can easily afford to move to India or China or some place like that. I hear it is cheap there.

You give enough shit to sit here and bicker about some lame video.

[histrionics22]

Al-Quida wouldn't say anything. They were apart of it. They would have to have been given something in return for cooperating. There are several possibilities but I believe what I believe because I do not trust our government. I do not like our country. If I didn't have family here and could afford it, I would move.

The company who provided the steel for the construction of the WTC said that the fuel could not reach the right temperature to cause the steel to melt or soften. I also recall the buildings collapsed only around 56 minutes after the planes hit. I can't remember exactly how many floors were on fire but I don't even think it was in the double digits. Like I said, I don't really have time to research this. I only know as much as I am told and what I've read which isn't much so I am not the man to be argueing with. I am just backing up my weak beliefs with weak info. It is all weak because I truely don't give a shit. People died. There is no real other way to look at it.

Honestly. You say people are dead, yet you are willing to blame the government with weak backing info. You're looking/listening to the wrong people/sources.

[cal1082]

My intelligence is not on trial here, there is no need to bring it up. Stick to the topic jackass.

Prove to me that the Bush administration did not have any plans for the attack and I'll prove to you they did.

[edit] I'll explain this post even further seeing that you probably won't comprehend it correctly. You're proof for your arguement has shown to be just as good as mine. My opinion is no greater than your's and your opinion is no greater than mine. This arguement is dead and all the only thing to do is agree to disagree.

Perhaps the most absurd thing I've read on this website. Simply think what your asking?

I'll explain why in case you don't get what I mean. Ok............assuming we're right and the Bush administration did not have any plans for the attack how and the hell is someone suppose to prove this to you when it wouldnt exist?

[cuetheflames]

I don't think Tom is pushing the idea on anyone. Its the media that presents the fact and the certain people take it to heart. Usually the people who act like this are kids and unfortunately, you can be 28 years old and still act like a kid. People are gullable and ignorant.

yeah i understand that, thats why i thought it was retarded he even brough it up.

[love2hateme]

The WTC was designed to withstand earthquakes, high winds, and several other things. I think it could take a plane compared to an earthquake crippling the foundation. Either way, if the planes did cause the buildings to collapse, it wouldn't have came STRAIGHT down.
.
actually the building's fire proof stuff failed so it was faulty or atleast that is what is documented

[justinevans]

actually the building's fire proof stuff failed so it was faulty or atleast that is what is documented

I already commented on why it came straight down. He had no argument for it. He just blurted out some nonsense.

[cal1082]

The WTC was designed to withstand earthquakes, high winds, and several other things. I think it could take a plane compared to an earthquake crippling the foundation. Either way, if the planes did cause the buildings to collapse, it wouldn't have came STRAIGHT down.
That building was not as big as the WTC either. A 757 would have probably demolished it. I'd say the ratios between the sizes of the buildings and planes are similar. I'll have to look into that.

The explosions did not come from the floors the plane hit. Do you really think that a plane hitting a building would cause the foundation to crumble? I would think that the side the plane hit would be weakened and it would fall leaning toward that side. This did not happen.

I will do my own research starting this week.

Also when did you become and engineering expert? I've got no clue how they would come down if two planes hit them (from what i saw it seems straight down), but I've read experts that say that straight down is the only way they could have come.

Point being, how in the world can you be so certain of yourself?

[love2hateme]

i think bubu is an idiot and just needs to stop talking

[sweethypocrisy]

911research.wtc7.net has some very good information.

to me, the most infuriating thing about is not the thought that the government could do/allow something like this,but that we may never know the truth.

[A000lex]

i think bubu is an idiot and just needs to stop talking I don't.

I actually agree with him and think he has made some valid arguements.

[justinevans]

I don't.

I actually agree with him and think he has made some valid arguements.

You're also from Minnesota.

[richter915]

You're also from Minnesota.
You're from New Jersey...America's Armpit.

[justinevans]

You're from New Jersey...America's Armpit.

And America's wealthiest state. New Jersey is also 5th in education.

[richter915]

911research.wtc7.net has some very good information.

to me, the most infuriating thing about is not the thought that the government could do/allow something like this,but that we may never know the truth.
All the questions (the reasonable ones) will never be answered...It will be hidden better than any of the other questions about American tragedies...there's no harm in asking, there's no harm in questioning the answers.

[richter915]

And America's wealthiest state. New Jersey is also 5th in education.
hmm...you still suck.

what I hate about jersey...you guys are like the emo ***s who always feel the need like you have something prove. See, NYers, we know we're amazing and the rest of America sucks...you guys, you know you're shit so you're always lookin up stats and parading it around thinking it'll make people stop thinking you're shit...but the world is smarter than that.

[justinevans]

hmm...you still suck.

what I hate about jersey...you guys are like the emo ***s who always feel the need like you have something prove. See, NYers, we know we're amazing and the rest of America sucks...you guys, you know you're shit so you're always lookin up stats and parading it around thinking it'll make people stop thinking you're shit...but the world is smarter than that.

Right? If New Yorkers hate NJ so much tell them to stay out. Worst fucking drivers in the world. Lets get in the left lane and drive the speed limit. Fucking pussies.

[blinksavesTX]

I was gonna post in the original tom delonge thread but the posts are nearing 700 so it got be too much to read through.

Basically I think Tom Delonge, along with all of these other preachy musicians, is simply an ego maniac that needs to say outlandish things to get people to notice him. I gurantee everyone reading that the guy who wrote "Ben Wah Balls" and "Dysentary Gary" is not a political insider and listens to whatever liberal fairy tales that he sees on the internet because he is not intelligent or educated enough to distinguish between fact and fiction.

I don't agree. This has nothing to do with "ego". They are either way into the crystal meth thing or they truly are idiots. As for Delonge, the poor soul may have already lost his mind.

By the way, I just read that the dude that calls himself Paul McCartney isn't Paul McCartney and that the Beatles left all kinds of clues on many of their albums, confirming his death. Hey, before anybody calls me an idiot, Google it and you'll understand why this is entirely plausible.

[richter915]

I don't agree. This has nothing to do with "ego". They are either way into the crystal meth thing or they truly are idiots. As for Delonge, the poor soul may have already lost his mind.

By the way, I just read that the dude that calls himself Paul McCartney isn't Paul McCartney and that the Beatles left all kinds of clues on many of their albums, confirming his death. Hey, before anybody calls me an idiot, Google it and you'll understand why this is entirely plausible.
hah. Delonge has ALWAYS been a conspiracy theorist (ref: Aliens Exist)...I wouldn't take him seriously but hey, it passes the time.

[sweethypocrisy]

I don't agree. This has nothing to do with "ego". They are either way into the crystal meth thing or they truly are idiots. As for Delonge, the poor soul may have already lost his mind.

By the way, I just read that the dude that calls himself Paul McCartney isn't Paul McCartney and that the Beatles left all kinds of clues on many of their albums, confirming his death. Hey, before anybody calls me an idiot, Google it and you'll understand why this is entirely plausible.
the mccartney thing is super interesting

[TeaService]

Honestly, why does it matter? Listening to these theory-high musicians is like reading a cerel box and forming your opinion of 9/11 on that. The point is, 9/11 was a bad time in history. I think reliving it by people coming out with these theories is just reliving the pain these families felt when it was happening. I think these theories are started up by people who are not educated enough to even talk about this yet. These theories are just putting pressure on these families. It's easy to blame someone, just not as easy to forget. I think the problem is, in today's generation, we're afraid. I think people believe if someobody didn't cause something, then it will be forgotten and everyone will be like, "9/11? Huh?"

[justinevans]

the mccartney thing is super interesting

yeah it is.

[FallingOut]

-I never mentioned Tom Delonge to "get everybody on my side" That was not the point whatsoever. I said that, just as a point of relevance, because it was mentioned recently. I was saying, since he said that, what do people think? I was trying to start an intelligent discussion in this thread. I wanted to hear people's honest, mature opinions.I never said it was true since Tom said it.
-I think Bubu has brought up several very good points also. One good one to think about is the plane skidding on the ground. They say it skipped along on the ground, yet there is nothing on the ground.
-The terrible "video" they released clearly does not show anything skipping on the ground. There is absolutely no way that a plane, skidding on the ground, and then hitting a building, would go in perfectly straight, cutting a nice little strip in the building. Picture the scenario in your head, and you will see that it couldnt happen so easily. Also, dont you find it a little hard to believe that the entire plane, head to toe, would just completely disintegrate. I know it was realllllly fucking hot obviously, but there would be some structure there still, I think at least.

[FallingOut]

hah. Delonge has ALWAYS been a conspiracy theorist (ref: Aliens Exist)...I wouldn't take him seriously but hey, it passes the time.

Ive always thought it was dumb to be a conspiracy theorist, but honestly, it seems like a good thing in way. I mean, why should we just sit back, and just believe everything we are told? Its good to question things sometimes. You cannot trust the media for anything. So much is changed around, twisted. I realize that theories cannot always be trusted either, but I mean, I think its good to question stuff.

[Justin_stacy]

All of those pictures show just one piece each..

Since the plane literally dissolved, what do you want to see? There are hundreds of pictures showing different parts of a plane inside the pentagon. On the outside two major chunks of plane were found. One of them being this picture http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/overview.jpg (obviously not a missile, bomb, or small plane).

See the problem is if you are dead set on believing some far fetched alternative "truth" then no actual proof will be able to swing you opinion (Your like the holocaust deniers; who object to photographs, eye witnesses, and even Nazi achieves....anything that actual proves the holocaust happened, and therefore discredits their beliefs). There are pictures of plane parts inside the pentagon (wheels, landing gear, metal, diesel fuel remnants etc), so the point is a plane hit the building. So this is an actual fact, since it can be proven. Tie that to the eye witnesses and the phone calls from the people on board the plane and your little conspiracy theory "starts" lacking any since of creditability it might otherwise have had. Why believe something you can't back up, that has no proof behind it, and contradicts legitimate findings?

How many people do you think would have to be behind a cover-up as massive as bombing the WTC? Or bombing the Pentagon? But yet the legal NSA wire taping is leaked. Do you really think witnesses would have just let people place plane parts allover the yard and inside the burned out building, and not said something? Where is Barbara Olson?

Explain…….

One. And I love how they say, look at the damage from the wings in the building, when its just one little thin strip below the windows. You think HUGE plane wings are just going to cut a nice, thin little line in a building? Insane.

Looks like its time to do a little personal research, numerous sites and/or books explain that quite well. The Pentagon, particularly the part hit, was no ordinary building and was designed for an impact like this one.

Those aren't parts to the plane that they claimed to hit the building. In the video, they showed what parts should have been thereand compared it to the ones that were there. .

No actually they are. All correspond to the Boeing 757.

I would also like to point out that people did not smell any jet fuel there at all. They smelled something that would have came from a bomb. .

I’ve never heard that anywhere, but I wonder how many people in a crisis can distinguish the smell of Jet fuel? What is a real fact is that every direct eye witness interviewed on 9/11 said they say a plane ram the building, not a missile or bomb, but a plane. Are these people all lying or in on the conspiracy?

[cal1082]

Ive always thought it was dumb to be a conspiracy theorist, but honestly, it seems like a good thing in way. I mean, why should we just sit back, and just believe everything we are told? Its good to question things sometimes. You cannot trust the media for anything. So much is changed around, twisted. I realize that theories cannot always be trusted either, but I mean, I think its good to question stuff.


What would you say if there were pictures from the pentagon that day that showed light poles knocked over and fences taken out by "something" hitting them?

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/1.jpg
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/1-1.jpg
http://www.clarkairbasek9.com/pent12.jpg
http://www.worldnewsstand.net/history/911pentagon/pole1.jpg
http://hereisnewyork.org/jpegs/photos/8268.JPG
http://libertyboy.free.fr/misc/attack/2001_09_11_pentagon_plane/rebuttal_pix/table5b.jpg

[FallingOut]

What would you say if there were pictures from the pentagon that day that showed light poles knocked over and fences taken out by "something" hitting them?

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/1.jpg
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/1-1.jpg
http://www.clarkairbasek9.com/pent12.jpg
http://www.worldnewsstand.net/history/911pentagon/pole1.jpg
http://hereisnewyork.org/jpegs/photos/8268.JPG
http://libertyboy.free.fr/misc/attack/2001_09_11_pentagon_plane/rebuttal_pix/table5b.jpg

I guess I cannot really explain those, so maybe you have a point there. In Loose Change they talked about how one particular plane hit one pole and went down. I dont remember how big that plane was, so who knows. I still dont claim to fully support this theory, its just something I believe is possible.

[oldwirehands]

Perhaps the most absurd thing I've read on this website. Simply think what your asking?

I'll explain why in case you don't get what I mean. Ok............assuming we're right and the Bush administration did not have any plans for the attack how and the hell is someone suppose to prove this to you when it wouldnt exist?

You're an idiot. The sentence wasn't supposed to be taken literally.

[oldwirehands]

I'm going to clear up some confusion.

I have a belief and like any belief, I'm going to defend it. How strongly I believe in it is how much effort I'll take into researching and defending it. I watched a movie twice and read a couple articles. That isn't much effort at all by MY standards. I believe the government played a hand in the 9/11 attacks but its not a strong belief. I have little interest in finding out the truth because, either way you look at it, thousands of innocent lives were lost and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

I am clearly not an expert. I will give a weak arguement for my weak belief. Meaning, I will argue with what I know because I don't care to research the topic.

So to all of those people I argued with: You win. Isn't that what you want to hear me say? You did your homework. You get an A and I get an F. Virtual pat on the back for you. You can even print out one of these bad boys if it makes you feel better.

http://www.abcteacher.com/images/t47117.jpg

[oldwirehands]

i think bubu is an idiot and just needs to stop talking

You're not even old enough to vote. Your politcal point of view is hazy because you're a teenage girl who doesn't know what she wants.

[love2hateme]

i dont know what i want.........ok

[ColourandShape]

The film states that New York's Empire State Building was hit by a B-52 in 1945. It was actually a B-25 Mitchell, an aircraft less than one-third the size of a B-52. The authors have since apologized and acknowledged this error.

The movie cites a study in which cell phone calls could not be made at 32,000 ft, it is assumed flight 93 was flying that high for the entire flight. According to air traffic controllers in Cleveland, who alerted their counterparts at John P. Murtha Johnstown-Cambria County, the Flight 93 headed south and then east and began a steady descent from an altitude of over 20,000 feet to less than 6,000 feet. According to the air traffic controllers the transponders were turned off for 30 seconds, and then turned on to a different frequency, one that no plane that day was using. The bogus "sqack," a four digit code for the computer to display the planes' information, still allowed the air traffic controllers to track the plane, but not identify it. [1]

The film suggests that a plane hitting a single light pole would crash, citing the example of a Gulfstream II headed to Houston saying it crashed because it hit a light pole. In fact the Gulfstream II jet crashed and a TV reporter noted it had clipped a light pole while crashing, the film suggests the pole ripped the wing off. The film states 5 light posts were knocked over Flight 77, in fact light poles are designed to detach from few simple bolts, on impact from car crashes to save lives. The effect of hitting a light post by a plane's wing would not cause it to rip the wing off. [2]

The authors claim that the military was running exercises in Alaska and Canada, and hence had shifted American military aircraft north, leaving only, quote, "14 fighter jets to protect the entire United States." However, the article cited[3] states instead, "On September 11, 2001, NORAD had 20 aircraft on alert -- two in Alaska, four in Canada and 14 protecting the contiguous United States."

[justinevans]

The film states that New York's Empire State Building was hit by a B-52 in 1945. It was actually a B-25 Mitchell, an aircraft less than one-third the size of a B-52. The authors have since apologized and acknowledged this error.

The movie cites a study in which cell phone calls could not be made at 32,000 ft, it is assumed flight 93 was flying that high for the entire flight. According to air traffic controllers in Cleveland, who alerted their counterparts at John P. Murtha Johnstown-Cambria County, the Flight 93 headed south and then east and began a steady descent from an altitude of over 20,000 feet to less than 6,000 feet. According to the air traffic controllers the transponders were turned off for 30 seconds, and then turned on to a different frequency, one that no plane that day was using. The bogus "sqack," a four digit code for the computer to display the planes' information, still allowed the air traffic controllers to track the plane, but not identify it. [1]

The film suggests that a plane hitting a single light pole would crash, citing the example of a Gulfstream II headed to Houston saying it crashed because it hit a light pole. In fact the Gulfstream II jet crashed and a TV reporter noted it had clipped a light pole while crashing, the film suggests the pole ripped the wing off. The film states 5 light posts were knocked over Flight 77, in fact light poles are designed to detach from few simple bolts, on impact from car crashes to save lives. The effect of hitting a light post by a plane's wing would not cause it to rip the wing off. [2]

The authors claim that the military was running exercises in Alaska and Canada, and hence had shifted American military aircraft north, leaving only, quote, "14 fighter jets to protect the entire United States." However, the article cited[3] states instead, "On September 11, 2001, NORAD had 20 aircraft on alert -- two in Alaska, four in Canada and 14 protecting the contiguous United States."

i love you lol. everyday @ 2 am prior and after the attacks....f 16s flew over my home.

[oldwirehands]

I watched Loose Change yet again (my girlfriend wanted to see it).

I can't find the quote but I remember someone brought up that the hijacker's passport was found but the boxes in the plane were incinerated by the jet fuel. Someone else asked for a source.

The video did reveal the source. ABC News reported that they identified one of the hijacker's with a passport found in ground zero.

[YourMusicSucks]

That whole damn thing is totally pwned and refuted by some word document.

And I was almost convinced, though skeptical, before i read the word document.

[KalwithaK11]

i have watched the video "loose change" a few times now and think it is very interesting. Some things in the video are questionable. such as sources and what not.

1. how would a paper passport survive the crash?
2. where is flight 93...so footage shows an actually plane.
3. the leasing of the trade center and the stocks were a little "shady" to me.
4. the 2nd explosion
5. the hijackers are alive...(so the film says)

those are just some of the things i found interesting about this whole thing. not saying that this is all true. but it is sumthing we should deff. look into or take note of. 9/11 comission has hardly released any info about that day.

and in 5 years. no other attacks have been made on the US. if they hate us so much...why not more attacks?

this is a very interesting subject

[EnderDove]

i have watched the video "loose change" a few times now and think it is very interesting. Some things in the video are questionable. such as sources and what not.

1. how would a paper passport survive the crash?
2. where is flight 93...so footage shows an actually plane.
3. the leasing of the trade center and the stocks were a little "shady" to me.
4. the 2nd explosion
5. the hijackers are alive...(so the film says)

those are just some of the things i found interesting about this whole thing. not saying that this is all true. but it is sumthing we should deff. look into or take note of. 9/11 comission has hardly released any info about that day.

and in 5 years. no other attacks have been made on the US. if they hate us so much...why not more attacks?

this is a very interesting subject

This wasnt a simple car bombing, hence why no further attack in the past five years. Not to mention the obvious fact that since the attacks on 9/11 security is higher.

[sweethypocrisy]

That whole damn thing is totally pwned and refuted by some word document.

And I was almost convinced, though skeptical, before i read the word document.
I detect sarcasm but the word document is bogus, as ive previously noted.

[sweethypocrisy]

i have watched the video "loose change" a few times now and think it is very interesting. Some things in the video are questionable. such as sources and what not.

1. how would a paper passport survive the crash?
2. where is flight 93...so footage shows an actually plane.
3. the leasing of the trade center and the stocks were a little "shady" to me.
4. the 2nd explosion
5. the hijackers are alive...(so the film says)

those are just some of the things i found interesting about this whole thing. not saying that this is all true. but it is sumthing we should deff. look into or take note of. 9/11 comission has hardly released any info about that day.

and in 5 years. no other attacks have been made on the US. if they hate us so much...why not more attacks?

this is a very interesting subject
i agree, this is something that cant just go un investigated, and no, the 9/11 comission report does not count. though i am going to the library to get it next chance i get, theres also a 340 page book on the omissions and distortions of the commision report.

[FallingOut]

i agree, this is something that cant just go un investigated, and no, the 9/11 comission report does not count. though i am going to the library to get it next chance i get, theres also a 340 page book on the omissions and distortions of the commision report.

Definitely. While I still cannot say for 100% sure whether it was an inside job, it seems obvious that there needs to be an official investigation done, not just by a bunch of websites. Although with the government being so corrupt, I can almost guarantee they would ultimately conclude there was no government involvement. I just cant imagine it ever being proven, or I should say revealed, that they were behind it. The Bush administration would stop them somehow.

[cal1082]

Definitely. While I still cannot say for 100% sure whether it was an inside job, it seems obvious that there needs to be an official investigation done, not just by a bunch of websites. Although with the government being so corrupt, I can almost guarantee they would ultimately conclude there was no government involvement. I just cant imagine it ever being proven, or I should say revealed, that they were behind it. The Bush administration would stop them somehow.

First, it would be very easy to prove if they really did do it. Missing planes, over 100 missing people, lots of fake phone calls, fake videos, and loading the world trade center with tnt is not something that's easy to cover up ecspecially when all that is combined.

Second, let's just assume for a second the Bush administration did it and throw all our sense out the window. Do you not imagine if there was a case to be made many prominent democrats and republicans would want an investigation. Now I know you might say, "Republicans wouldn't" but I would think that is garbage. Political ties only go so far for someone with an ounce integrity when it involves the murder of thousands of Americans.

Third, how would the Bush administration somehow stop them?

[FallingOut]

First, it would be very easy to prove if they really did do it. Missing planes, over 100 missing people, lots of fake phone calls, fake videos, and loading the world trade center with tnt is not something that's easy to cover up ecspecially when all that is combined.

Second, let's just assume for a second the Bush administration did it and throw all our sense out the window. Do you not imagine if there was a case to be made many prominent democrats and republicans would want an investigation. Now I know you might say, "Republicans wouldn't" but I would think that is garbage. Political ties only go so far for someone with an ounce integrity when it involves the murder of thousands of Americans.

Third, how would the Bush administration somehow stop them?

Ok I realize all of what you said makes perfect sense. You are right. I admit that what I said was prettty stupid. I guess I just dont see it all happening. Doesnt seem likely. I think its a longshot to even have a real investigation.

[Mobames]

you cant be american unless you think somethings a conspiracy. Remeber how we didnt land on the moon? and how the CIA shot JFK? this just goes up on the list of rediculous claims.

[FallingOut]

you cant be american unless you think somethings a conspiracy. Remeber how we didnt land on the moon? and how the CIA shot JFK? this just goes up on the list of rediculous claims.

Provide me with some proof before you be a smart ass. Its idiots like you that refuse to open up your mind to anything, that ruin America. I love how everybody comes on here, and acts like they know exactly what happened, without a doubt. And then they turn around and say, "Oh youre so dumb for thinking that, what a gullible idiot, blah blah blah" Tell me, since you were not there, and did not see anything in your own eyes, what makes your opinion any more valid than somebody who questions what might have really happened? We all get information from outside sources, right? Yes. So, nobody is right or wrong, because unless you were sitting on the fucking Pentagon lawn, and saw the plane hit, and you can prove it somehow, all we have is information given to us.

When I started this thread, it was never my intention to say anybody was wrong, or to say that I know what happened on 9/11. I think it is possible that what happened might not be exactly what we were told. Other people have the same opinions, clearly many people have much different opinions. The truth is, nobody on this board knows EXACTLY what happened. Period. Its very frustrating that people are so immature, and cannot have an honest, intellectual discussion. I wanted to see what people's opinions were on some of the theories. All anybody can do is insult each other. Its pathetic.

Edit: I do realize I made a post in the other thread saying that I know a plane did not hit the Pentagon, for sure. I should not have said that, and I realize now that was pretty stupid. After thinking about it, I still dont know for sure if it was a plane or not. Thanks.

[dai the flu]

now that you mention it, i wasnt present for pearl harbor, i didnt see the titanic sink, i wasnt on board the mayflower, i didnt work at chernobyl. how do we know all these things happened? what? do you expect me to believe other people? hell no! i wont believe it, i didnt see it.

[histrionics22]

So, nobody is right or wrong, because unless you were sitting on the fucking Pentagon lawn, and saw the plane hit, and you can prove it somehow, all we have is information given to us.

Read some accounts of people who were by the Pentagon lawn. I know there are people who say the plane was smaller, or it sounded like a missile. But the people who say it was a large plane are in the majority.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html

[FallingOut]

Read some accounts of people who were by the Pentagon lawn. I know there are people who say the plane was smaller, or it sounded like a missile. But the people who say it was a large plane are in the majority.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911_pentagon_eyewitnesses.html

That is fine. Like I said, many people say the saw a large plane. Maybe they are right! I am not saying these people are lying or didnt see what they claim. There are many other people who say they saw or heard something completely different. They could be right too. The only thing I was trying to say was that, unless YOU saw it, then you do not know exactly what happened. If they release a good video that clearly shows a 757 hitting the Pentagon, I will say, hey, you know what, the theories are wrong. But until I see it with my own eyes, I am going to continue to believe that there are other possibilties out there.

[histrionics22]

if you take a look at some evidence, or watch some videos, you will see how shady the whole thing is

its honestly scary

and the fact that people are so ignorant to anything that rocks the boat makes me sick

What videos? The ones they showed us are inconclusive. That doesnt automatically mean it wasnt a 757. And there is no ignorance. If you read some information and used basic reasoning and common sense it would be clear that it's near impossible to pull something like this off.

[histrionics22]

research more

read what the FBI says about the videos

they say that 1 tape out of 84 in the area shows anything

so therefore they have released all there is to release

how shady and unbelieveable is that?

What 84 videos?

[hubbabubbal3ts]

now that you mention it, i wasnt present for pearl harbor, i didnt see the titanic sink, i wasnt on board the mayflower, i didnt work at chernobyl. how do we know all these things happened? what? do you expect me to believe other people? hell no! i wont believe it, i didnt see it.
hahahahhah.

[histrionics22]

they said there were 84 videos pointed at The Pentagon when it was hit

but only 1 showed anything

talk about bullshit lies

and that one video is the "video" they released which is nothing more than a few edited frames slapped into a almost slideshow quality video

Find a source that said 84. I'd be curious to see it. The "video" is from a security camera. If you read or listened to the news about the camera, it takes snapshots every half second. A plane traveling anywhere between 350-450 MPH will not likely be caught be a camera like that.

[justinevans]

I was talking with my dad who used to work for Chubb...a company that was in the WTC and also one of the insurers....they collected all video tapes to analyze what happened for their sake.

[cal1082]

they said there were 84 videos pointed at The Pentagon when it was hit

but only 1 showed anything

talk about bullshit lies

and that one video is the "video" they released which is nothing more than a few edited frames slapped into a almost slideshow quality video

who is "they"

[richter915]

Find a source that said 84. I'd be curious to see it. The "video" is from a security camera. If you read or listened to the news about the camera, it takes snapshots every half second. A plane traveling anywhere between 350-450 MPH will not likely be caught be a camera like that.
Yes it would. A plane of that size would definitely be caught within half a second. It also most likely slowed down a lot more at the point the snapshots were taken.

[histrionics22]

Yes it would. A plane of that size would definitely be caught within half a second. It also most likely slowed down a lot more at the point the snapshots were taken.

No slow down. Why would they slow the plane down? There were reports of it going 530 mph going into it. Another poster said it was probably more around 350-400 mph.

[richter915]

No slow down. Why would they slow the plane down? There were reports of it going 530 mph going into it. Another poster said it was probably more around 350-400 mph.
hmm ok. I'd still think the plane is large enough for at least part of it to be captured.

[FallingOut]

i hope this guy sees this:

you're a moron

that is NOT evidence

True. I still think one of the hardest things to believe is that the entire plane disappeared. It just seems logical that some decent sized part of it would be sticking out or sitting there. I dont know, I could be dead wrong. It just seems like there would be something. And the ground not being damaged at all after they said it skidded.

[FallingOut]

why does the pentagon have security cameras that capture every half second...when you can buy better security for a personal home computer...if they have nothing to hide then why all the bullshit. I'm just so sick of all this. I hope more information on this comes out in my lifetime.

Yeah I never even thought of that. Maybe thats just what they claimed and only showed every half second so we wont know what it really is.

[cal1082]

Yes it would. A plane of that size would definitely be caught within half a second. It also most likely slowed down a lot more at the point the snapshots were taken.

It wouldnt defenitely be caught on taope within a half second. Ecspecially considering the estimated speed at which they crashed. I did the math on the other thread but assuming from where the edge of the camera showed (where the object appeared) to the building itself the plane could have easily missed the full view, as it appears it did.

[richter915]

It wouldnt defenitely be caught on taope within a half second. Ecspecially considering the estimated speed at which they crashed. I did the math on the other thread but assuming from where the edge of the camera showed (where the object appeared) to the building itself the plane could have easily missed the full view, as it appears it did.
I'd like to do the math but I need to see the video and all that. Could u link me to ur calculations?

did other camera's catch the plane?

[cal1082]

I'd like to do the math but I need to see the video and all that. Could u link me to ur calculations?

did other camera's catch the plane?

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showpost.php?p=3333697&postcount=621

I just guessed the distance from the "cone of the plane" to the building, and actually overestimated to see if the numbers still worked. Then figured out how far a plane could travel in 1/2 second if it were going 350 mph. I got the 350 mph from the news because it was the estimated speed.

Check the math cause I could be wrong. I just divided the time/speed by 2 until i reached close to 1/2 second.

[richter915]

http://www.absolutepunk.net/showpost.php?p=3333697&postcount=621

I just guessed the distance from the "cone of the plane" to the building, and actually overestimated to see if the numbers still worked. Then figured out how far a plane could travel in 1/2 second if it were going 350 mph. I got the 350 mph from the news because it was the estimated speed.

Check the math cause I could be wrong. I just divided the time/speed by 2 until i reached close to 1/2 second.
hmm...one problem in all of this is we don't know the range of view of the camera. If it's large enough we can see anything regardless of speed and size. I'll take ur fifty yards to be legit.

Alright, acc. to my calculations, the plane is moving approx 171yards/sec. So in half a second, the plane movies approx. 85.5yards. Based on that, you're right, we should see nothing cause from one half second to the next the plane can go from the edge of the camera's view into the building...this is assuming the snapshot occurs immediately before the plane comes into view.

But here's the big problem in all of this...the plane is not a single point...the length of a boeing is 75 yards. So yes, in the half second...the nose of the jet can have gone from the edge of the cam's view into the building and we'd never see it...this will hold true for the first 35 yards of the plane which, in half a second, will cross that 50 yard threshold and break through the building...we'll still be left with forty yards of plane to see...and assuming the natural laws of physics hold true here, the impact will slow the plane down tremendously so we might see a little more.

[Justin_stacy]

I wonder what wed know today if the phone camera-records had been around 5 years ago like they are now? Its funny that something as stupid as a cell phone could really answer so many questions.

[justinevans]

hmm...one problem in all of this is we don't know the range of view of the camera. If it's large enough we can see anything regardless of speed and size. I'll take ur fifty yards to be legit.

Alright, acc. to my calculations, the plane is moving approx 171yards/sec. So in half a second, the plane movies approx. 85.5yards. Based on that, you're right, we should see nothing cause from one half second to the next the plane can go from the edge of the camera's view into the building...this is assuming the snapshot occurs immediately before the plane comes into view.

But here's the big problem in all of this...the plane is not a single point...the length of a boeing is 75 yards. So yes, in the half second...the nose of the jet can have gone from the edge of the cam's view into the building and we'd never see it...this will hold true for the first 35 yards of the plane which, in half a second, will cross that 50 yard threshold and break through the building...we'll still be left with forty yards of plane to see...and assuming the natural laws of physics hold true here, the impact will slow the plane down tremendously so we might see a little more.

I just read through what you wrote and some of the calculations don't seem to add up.

Read through it again, maybe I missed something. I don't know how you get the 35 yards of the plane. or 40 yards of the plane to be left.

[cal1082]

hmm...one problem in all of this is we don't know the range of view of the camera. If it's large enough we can see anything regardless of speed and size. I'll take ur fifty yards to be legit.

Alright, acc. to my calculations, the plane is moving approx 171yards/sec. So in half a second, the plane movies approx. 85.5yards. Based on that, you're right, we should see nothing cause from one half second to the next the plane can go from the edge of the camera's view into the building...this is assuming the snapshot occurs immediately before the plane comes into view.

But here's the big problem in all of this...the plane is not a single point...the length of a boeing is 75 yards. So yes, in the half second...the nose of the jet can have gone from the edge of the cam's view into the building and we'd never see it...this will hold true for the first 35 yards of the plane which, in half a second, will cross that 50 yard threshold and break through the building...we'll still be left with forty yards of plane to see...and assuming the natural laws of physics hold true here, the impact will slow the plane down tremendously so we might see a little more.

I thought the lenght of a boeing 757 is 155 ft (51 yards).

Length of boeing 757 from tip to tip- Link 1 (http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=101)
Length of boeing 757 from tip to tip- Link 2 (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/757family/pf/pf_200tech.html)

Somethign that's 51 yards long traveling at 350 mph would no doubt not be caught on a camera taking a pic every half second considering those pics are taken as it enters the camera.

[histrionics22]

True. I still think one of the hardest things to believe is that the entire plane disappeared. It just seems logical that some decent sized part of it would be sticking out or sitting there. I dont know, I could be dead wrong. It just seems like there would be something. And the ground not being damaged at all after they said it skidded.

The entire plane didn't really disappear. It was really torn apart. Not too many big pieces of the plane were left. But if you read about what the walls of the pentagon were made with, it kind of makes sense. A plane traveling that fast into reinforced concrete will be demolished.

[dai the flu]

they should just crash another one to prove it can happen.

[richter915]

I thought the lenght of a boeing 757 is 155 ft (51 yards).

Length of boeing 757 from tip to tip- Link 1 (http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=101)
Length of boeing 757 from tip to tip- Link 2 (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/757family/pf/pf_200tech.html)

Somethign that's 51 yards long traveling at 350 mph would no doubt not be caught on a camera taking a pic every half second considering those pics are taken as it enters the camera.
that's a problem cause I based my numbers on this link...what type of boeing is it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747#Technical_data

if the boeing was around 50 yards like you say...we should still see the last 15 yards of the plane

[richter915]

I just read through what you wrote and some of the calculations don't seem to add up.

Read through it again, maybe I missed something. I don't know how you get the 35 yards of the plane. or 40 yards of the plane to be left.
ya, that part I was confusing myself on but I drew out a picture and it makes sense. Alright, what I'm about to write may be really confusing but it makes sense:

say that the trajectory of the plane is along the x-axis of a graph...the tip of the plane is at x=0. That means the tail, based on my previous observation, is at x=75 (where one tick mark on the x axis = 1 yard). OK? so, in half a second, every part of the plane moves 85 yards to the left. So the tip of the plane originally at x=0 is now at x=-85. This makes the part of the plane at x=75 (the tail end) now at x=-10. The wall of the pentagon is at x=-50. So the difference between 85 and 50 is 35 and that's how much of the plane crashes through the wall...the remainder..the last 40 yards...is what's left outside of the wall in half a second. that's pretty much it. There shouldn't be any error in that.

[FallingOut]

ya, that part I was confusing myself on but I drew out a picture and it makes sense. Alright, what I'm about to write may be really confusing but it makes sense:

say that the trajectory of the plane is along the x-axis of a graph...the tip of the plane is at x=0. That means the tail, based on my previous observation, is at x=75 (where one tick mark on the x axis = 1 yard). OK? so, in half a second, every part of the plane moves 85 yards to the left. So the tip of the plane originally at x=0 is now at x=-85. This makes the part of the plane at x=75 (the tail end) now at x=-10. The wall of the pentagon is at x=-50. So the difference between 85 and 50 is 35 and that's how much of the plane crashes through the wall...the remainder..the last 40 yards...is what's left outside of the wall in half a second. that's pretty much it. There shouldn't be any error in that.

I dont really see what this is trying to prove. I mean, how can you know that the plane is at these angles you are talking about? It really seems like you are wasting a lot of time on this, and it seems useless if you dont even know how fast the plane was going and what exact angle it hit.

[cal1082]

ya, that part I was confusing myself on but I drew out a picture and it makes sense. Alright, what I'm about to write may be really confusing but it makes sense:

say that the trajectory of the plane is along the x-axis of a graph...the tip of the plane is at x=0. That means the tail, based on my previous observation, is at x=75 (where one tick mark on the x axis = 1 yard). OK? so, in half a second, every part of the plane moves 85 yards to the left. So the tip of the plane originally at x=0 is now at x=-85. This makes the part of the plane at x=75 (the tail end) now at x=-10. The wall of the pentagon is at x=-50. So the difference between 85 and 50 is 35 and that's how much of the plane crashes through the wall...the remainder..the last 40 yards...is what's left outside of the wall in half a second. that's pretty much it. There shouldn't be any error in that.


i think you're making it more difficult than it is.

Assuming the edge of the "cone nose" to the edge of the Pentagon is around 50 yards. And knowing that if the plane was traveling 350mph it can cover 75 yards in a little less than a 1/2 second than you know the plan would not be on film.

Because in that next 1/2 second between camera shots the plane would have traveled well over that 50 yard gap (at least +25 yards over which would mean impact)

[richter915]

I dont really see what this is trying to prove. I mean, how can you know that the plane is at these angles you are talking about? It really seems like you are wasting a lot of time on this, and it seems useless if you dont even know how fast the plane was going and what exact angle it hit.
angles? this is very simple physics. What I'm trying to show mathematically is that you should be able to see some of the plane no matter what. People are discussing whether or not the plane was shown in the video of the pentagon.

[richter915]

i think you're making it more difficult than it is.

Assuming the edge of the "cone nose" to the edge of the Pentagon is around 50 yards. And knowing that if the plane was traveling 350mph it can cover 75 yards in a little less than a 1/2 second than you know the plan would not be on film.

Because in that next 1/2 second between camera shots the plane would have traveled well over that 50 yard gap (at least +25 yards over which would mean impact)
I think you're making this seem more difficult than it really is...it is in fact very simple.

Everything you wrote I agree with. This is pretty simple you just have to consider the entire plane when looking at this. I'm not saying you won't see an impact cause u definitely will...but you'll see part of the plane hanging out as well. You should not see nothing and then just a puff of smoke/fire from one frame to another.

[richter915]

upon watching the video again...I think giving 50 yards between the pentagon and edge of the camera is a bit too much...but even going with that...it looks like the explosion was big enough that with the low resolution of the camera it would be hard to see any part of the plane remaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuQ1zFrnXvQ&search=pentagon

with that video, you clearly see a full sized object but is the argument whether that's a boeing or not? Is there any way to find the distance from the camera to the explosion site?

[cal1082]

I think you're making this seem more difficult than it really is...it is in fact very simple.

Everything you wrote I agree with. This is pretty simple you just have to consider the entire plane when looking at this. I'm not saying you won't see an impact cause u definitely will...but you'll see part of the plane hanging out as well. You should not see nothing and then just a puff of smoke/fire from one frame to another.

i just dont get then where you think part of the plane would be out?

You have a 50 yard gap in which the plane could have moved 75 yrds before the next frame. Doesnt matter that the plane is 50 yrds long because the plane would have traveled 75 yrds if not for the Pentagon.

[richter915]

i just dont get then where you think part of the plane would be out?

You have a 50 yard gap in which the plane could have moved 75 yrds before the next frame. Doesnt matter that the plane is 50 yrds long because the plane would have traveled 75 yrds if not for the Pentagon.
alright, ur absolutely right that the plane woulda moved whatever distance. The problem is every part of the plane moves that much and since the distance moved is close to the size of the plane, u have to take size into consideration. The problem with what you're saying is that you're assuming that the plane is a single point. The plane has a length of 70yards so every part of the plane will have to move forwards 75 yards.

[dai the flu]

ive been following this whole thing and i understand what you're saying richter, but if you look, the explosion blows outward almost halfway across the camera's viewpoint. even if 10-20 yards of the plane was left, it wouldve been hidden i think.
plus i think anything traveling at that speed and ending with such a violent impact, the plane will not retain its shape all the way through the explosion. i might be wrong.

[cal1082]

alright, ur absolutely right that the plane woulda moved whatever distance. The problem is every part of the plane moves that much and since the distance moved is close to the size of the plane, u have to take size into consideration. The problem with what you're saying is that you're assuming that the plane is a single point. The plane has a length of 70yards so every part of the plane will have to move forwards 75 yards.

It's a 757 which is only 51 yards long.

Let's take it from the back of the plane then. That would mean that you have 100 yards from that point till the impact. In .4 seconds the plane travels 75 yards, so you can assume that in .5 seconds the plane is traveling around 85-90 yards.

So you think there would be about 10-15 yards of plane sticking out? No way, with that explosion, the fact that it is probably less than a 50 yard gap (if i had to guess i'd say probably 35-40 yards), and the fact that it's not some sort of high resolution camera.

[richter915]

ive been following this whole thing and i understand what you're saying richter, but if you look, the explosion blows outward almost halfway across the camera's viewpoint. even if 10-20 yards of the plane was left, it wouldve been hidden i think.
plus i think anything traveling at that speed and ending with such a violent impact, the plane will not retain its shape all the way through the explosion. i might be wrong.
right I made a point of that earlier. There're some assumptions we're making that...when you combine it with the detail of the explosion size plus the low resolution of the camera...it woulda been hard to see anything in the videos/pictures released. thanks for understanding my calculations tho hah.

[richter915]

It's a 757 which is only 51 yards long.

Let's take it from the back of the plane then. That would mean that you have 100 yards from that point till the impact. In .4 seconds the plane travels 75 yards, so you can assume that in .5 seconds the plane is traveling around 85-90 yards.

So you think there would be about 10-15 yards of plane sticking out? No way, with that explosion, the fact that it is probably less than a 50 yard gap (if i had to guess i'd say probably 35-40 yards), and the fact that it's not some sort of high resolution camera.
again, from my source which I showed you I found a 757 to be closer to 75yards...that may be like an industrial 757 but fine, I can go with your 51 yard commercial one.

Out of nowhere you mention this .4 second thing? wtf. This entire time I thought you were talking about .5 seconds and all my math is done with .5 seconds. Ok so now our numbers agree and like I said many many posts ago...you'll have some of the plane left out which you should, in theory, be able to see. Due to other circumstances which I also mentioned, you probably won't be able to see any of it in this particular video. Thanks for proving my point.

[I am Brad]

I just wanna know if anyone has seen this. It really makes you think if 9/11 was a government conspiracy. It brings up so many great points. Was the pentagon a missile? were the trade centers actually demolished? did flight 93 really land in Cleveland? Interesting. I think if you havent seen it yet to try and watch it somehow.

[I am Brad]

shit im sorry I didnt see the other board posted about this ha.... but i guess comment in this if you want.

[sweethypocrisy]

just close this thread, this is the 90th thread weve had on it.

[Lueda Alia]

shit im sorry I didnt see the other board posted about this ha.... but i guess comment in this if you want.
I'll move this post to the other thread about this so I don't just close/delete this thread.

[catscradle]

just close this thread, this is the 90th thread weve had on it.
seriously, we've argued this thing to death for long enough.

[SkaBum14]

My roommate was watching this video last night and I sat down and watched most of it with him. It was interesting.

[catscradle]

This website does a pretty good job at providing an array of websites and videos that help debunk loose change.



http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/


if you have time to kill it has some pretty interesting stuff.

[xvszero]

Conspiracy theories work on ignorant minds.

And yes, I include myself. We can sit around debating plane crashes all day but come on, how many of us actually know jack shit about plane crash analysis?

It's like the "we didn't land on the moon" conspiracy... the science makes so much sense. Until you read why the science is just wrong... then the we did land on the moon facts make sense. If you buy that science. But unless you're a scientist it is hard to know what to think.

[justinevans]

most of the videos for the towers are not owned by the government, but the insurance company, Chubb.

[vlkers7171]

Conspiracy theories work on ignorant minds.

And yes, I include myself. We can sit around debating plane crashes all day but come on, how many of us actually know jack shit about plane crash analysis?

It's like the "we didn't land on the moon" conspiracy... the science makes so much sense. Until you read why the science is just wrong... then the we did land on the moon facts make sense. If you buy that science. But unless you're a scientist it is hard to know what to think.


Thats how i see it...so many of us know jack shit about the whole science aspect of it...thats these conspiracy theorists can make us believe anything. also, If someone can find the pen and teller video that goes through the loose change video and shows why its wrong, i'd recommend watching that to. If you truely think that this is a "conspiracy" than at least take the time to look at both sides

as for my views on it...i've seen, i think around 4, different conspiracy videos on this concept. I have also read for countless hours about this whole thing. While it looks very plausible, I think to many people here have watched the movie "wag the dog" too many times

[FallingOut]

. If you truely think that this is a "conspiracy" than at least take the time to look at both sides.
as for my views on it...i've seen, i think around 4, different conspiracy videos on this concept. I have also read for countless hours about this whole thing. While it looks very plausible, I think to many people here have watched the movie "wag the dog" too many times

Who are you to say that the people who think it is havent looked at both sides?? I, like you, have looked at both sides, probably not quite as much as you, and I think it is possible. However, while I did start this thread, never said I was sure of anything, just wanted to see what people thought. But you cant say that all of the people who think it is a conspiracy havent looked at both sides. If you think about it, that is almost impossible anyway, since weve had 5 years of media coverage of what happened.

[FallingOut]

Conspiracy theories work on ignorant minds.

Have you ever thought about it this way: The government's stories work on ignorant minds. I am not trying to say that the government lies about everything, but I am simply putting what you said and showing the irony of it. If the government is lying about this, than dont you think that their story worked on our minds because we are ignorant and dont know much about the science side of it? Think about it son.

[fcknazisympathy]

As Jason mentioned on the front page today, Tom Delonge is one of a large group of people who believe the government was behind the 9/11 attacks. I have personally read a lot of the evidence on this, and watched a movie, "Loose Change, 2nd Edition." For those of you who have actually looked into this, what is your opinion? I personally believe it is VERY possible, but I cannot say that I am 100 percent sure. Just wanted to get everybodys opinions. And please, at least look into it before you go calling me an idiot. Thanks.

www.911proof.com (http://www.911proof.com)
www.prisonplanet.com (http://www.prisonplanet.com)

are you believing tom delonge that guy is an idiot and none of his bands have been good and he has zero talent.

[xvszero]

Have you ever thought about it this way: The government's stories work on ignorant minds. I am not trying to say that the government lies about everything, but I am simply putting what you said and showing the irony of it. If the government is lying about this, than dont you think that their story worked on our minds because we are ignorant and dont know much about the science side of it? Think about it son.

That could be true, except that the government generally has high-level scientists working for them and knows if they straight up lie to the public it will come under heavy criticism. Conspiracy theorists have NOTHING to lose because if say "Loose Change" is lying to us every news channel on the planet won't be broadcasting about the lies 24/7 and even if they are, the maker has no political career or criminal negligance or anything like that to worry about.

My point is, conspiracy theorists can throw whatever they want out there without much risk. If the government is going to lie, they need to work at it much harder, because there is way more at risk.

I don't even think the most conspiracy theories are blatant lies though, I think the makers really believe it. I think they just don't bother doing their homework often though.

[FallingOut]

are you believing tom delonge that guy is an idiot and none of his bands have been good and he has zero talent.

You are a waste of life. Try using some intelligence if you are going to actually try to make a response.

[vlkers7171]

Who are you to say that the people who think it is havent looked at both sides?? I, like you, have looked at both sides, probably not quite as much as you, and I think it is possible. However, while I did start this thread, never said I was sure of anything, just wanted to see what people thought. But you cant say that all of the people who think it is a conspiracy havent looked at both sides. If you think about it, that is almost impossible anyway, since weve had 5 years of media coverage of what happened.

I know...looking back on what i said, i now realized that i didnt quite say what i wanted to say. You're are 100% right, alot of people have read and researched both sides...so yea, those people I can respect their opinion, which ever way they swing on their thought. but I guess what I was trying to get at , was the large amount of people who I personally know who think its true but only watched the one video and didnt do anymore research. To get a true opinion of something I believe you need to know the good/bad, pros/cons, democrate/republican..which ever way you wanna view things at, before you make a decision. Looking back at what i JUST wrote, i realized I should probably stop rambling...haha..but yea, Before anyone passes judgment on anything, I would recommend looking at both side...and for those who have, sorry for passing judgment before

[justinevans]

I know...looking back on what i said, i now realized that i didnt quite say what i wanted to say. You're are 100% right, alot of people have read and researched both sides...so yea, those people I can respect their opinion, which ever way they swing on their thought. but I guess what I was trying to get at , was the large amount of people who I personally know who think its true but only watched the one video and didnt do anymore research. To get a true opinion of something I believe you need to know the good/bad, pros/cons, democrate/republican..which ever way you wanna view things at, before you make a decision. Looking back at what i JUST wrote, i realized I should probably stop rambling...haha..but yea, Before anyone passes judgment on anything, I would recommend looking at both side...and for those who have, sorry for passing judgment before

haha well you break things down betweens dems/rep, maybe liberal and conservative. Political parties are just political parties. They all believe the same shit, but they side with who gives them the best chance to win.

[vlkers7171]

haha well you break things down betweens dems/rep, maybe liberal and conservative. Political parties are just political parties. They all believe the same shit, but they side with who gives them the best chance to win.

you knew what i meant

[justinevans]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWpRGLrkIsw this is interesting.

[Mula225]

did you watch the video? everything was staged. the explosives were known where to be placed due to the fact that they made by a demolition team. just watch the video and all the answers will be shown as to what could have happened.

Why don't you go tell all the people who lost loved one's, that 9/11 was a set-up. See what kinda reaction you get..

[nickstetina]

You are incredibly naive. Have you bothered to even take a look at the evidence? I doubt it. You should actually take some time, and look at the evidence. Its the most ignorant thing to say? Ok fucker, how about this: To completely accept every single thing you hear on fucking CNN and Fox News without any doubt is the most ignorant thing you can do. Take one minute out of your life and actually consider that everything they say might not be true. It is more possible than you might think. I know it sounds crazy to think about, but actually open up your mind, take a look, and think about it.
^^^^^ well said falling out.

he's right. you're a hypocrite for saying he's ignorant if you havent bothered to accept ideas other than the ones that are force fed to you by the media

[richter915]

Conspiracy theories work on ignorant minds.

And yes, I include myself. We can sit around debating plane crashes all day but come on, how many of us actually know jack shit about plane crash analysis?

It's like the "we didn't land on the moon" conspiracy... the science makes so much sense. Until you read why the science is just wrong... then the we did land on the moon facts make sense. If you buy that science. But unless you're a scientist it is hard to know what to think.
the "science" for us not landing on the moon makes no sense at all.

[richter915]

That could be true, except that the government generally has high-level scientists working for them and knows if they straight up lie to the public it will come under heavy criticism. Conspiracy theorists have NOTHING to lose because if say "Loose Change" is lying to us every news channel on the planet won't be broadcasting about the lies 24/7 and even if they are, the maker has no political career or criminal negligance or anything like that to worry about.

My point is, conspiracy theorists can throw whatever they want out there without much risk. If the government is going to lie, they need to work at it much harder, because there is way more at risk.

I don't even think the most conspiracy theories are blatant lies though, I think the makers really believe it. I think they just don't bother doing their homework often though.
the scientists will NEVER lie for obvious reasons...The scientists are told to gather as much information...but the government's PR guys decide to let the public know what they want. They won't lie, but they'll withhold information on the grounds that the info going to the public might cause some kind of uproar and further questioning of policy. That's the root of conspiracy in my book.