View Full Version : Is this racist?
k739n2VEsbA
Being an Australian myself i cannot see how this is defamatory or derogatory in any way? Am i missing something? Am i ignorant or a racist?
If so, by all means can someone please educate me on the matter.
Machu505
10/09/09, 04:10 PM
http://www.creepygif.com/images/full/10.gif
does anybody out there share this guys view?
DxThgZcBKIc
SlappedActor
10/09/09, 04:52 PM
Yes, it is racist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface
I can't speak for what race relations are/have been in other countries, but yeah, the blackface wouldn't fly here.
zion the lion
10/09/09, 05:12 PM
I always found blackface funny, because either way you do it (really believable with a brillo pad on your head and some shoe polish on your lips or crappy with a splotchy paint job and your blonde straight hair) you look like a fool. This was just pathetic and done in poor taste, they could have found four black men to do this instead of painting four men tar black, I didnt crack a smile, not even once. They took a chance (probably using the logic that people liked tropic thunder so people would like this) and failed miserably.
What does you being Australian have to do with any of this?
Because of it's use as a tool of ignorance in the past, something like that is in extremely bad taste.
zion the lion
10/09/09, 05:38 PM
does anybody out there share this guys view?
DxThgZcBKIc
By the way, I love his laugh at the 10 second mark.
And yes, I kind of agree with him, it was disrespectful.
I always found blackface funny, because either way you do it (really believable with a brillo pad on your head and some shoe polish on your lips or crappy with a splotchy paint job and your blonde straight hair) you look like a fool. This was just pathetic and done in poor taste, they could have found four black men to do this instead of painting four men tar black, I didnt crack a smile, not even once. They took a chance (probably using the logic that people liked tropic thunder so people would like this) and failed miserably.
What does you being Australian have to do with any of this?
they didn't choose them. its like a talent show. this was a group, of doctors mind you, who chose to perform this on an Australian variety show. me being Australian i have very little understanding of American black culture history.
and is not the same thing robert downy jnr did in tropic thunder. and he was nominated for an academy award. go figure.
EchoPark
10/09/09, 05:45 PM
Australia is the most racist society on the planet. The sheer audacity of this stunt and the feigned ignorance by the host and the performers that they thought it was okay to paint their faces black and dance around mimicking talented black entertainers lends to their stupidity.
Australians like to think they know everything and carry themselves with a smug self satisfaction. To hear you admit your ignorance is refreshing
zion the lion
10/09/09, 05:51 PM
they didn't choose them. its like a talent show. this was a group, of doctors mind you, who chose to perform this on an Australian variety show. me being Australian i have very little understanding of American black culture history.
and is not the same thing robert downy jnr did in tropic thunder. and he was nominated for an academy award. go figure.
Yes Robert Downy jr did do this, and there was some backlash from that, but it wasnt in poor taste when they did it because they were showing the ridiculousness of show business. Blackface here is seen as racist 98 percent of the time.
Honestly for me its not like I can dish it out but I cant take it, I make black jokes and laugh at them, one of my best friend says the n-word all the time (even though she's white) and we all laugh when she says it. I didnt think this was bad until I saw it. My mom said something about how we're never going to australia now because apparently they think black people are all midnight/tar black with nappy wigs.
I know that's a big generalization, but there wasnt even a reason for the audience to be laughing at that, it wasnt at all funny.
Dymytry Vance
10/09/09, 05:58 PM
Australia is the most racist society on the planet. The sheer audacity of this stunt and the feigned ignorance by the host and the performers that they thought it was okay to paint their faces black and dance around mimicking talented black entertainers lends to their stupidity.
Australians like to think they know everything and carry themselves with a smug self satisfaction. To hear you admit your ignorance is refreshing
That didn't totally generalize a country as a whole unfairluy at all.
mooshthedoosh
10/09/09, 06:00 PM
aussies are ignorant people in general. doesnt mean that they are racist, just means they are fucked up. Its true. Look at their whole aboriginal deal, and shit. I could go on and on.
zion the lion
10/09/09, 06:04 PM
As people probably already know, in some black communities, the shades of skin is a sensitive issue, and some think of it as their own caste system. There's a reason you can find skin bleach in the store. Which is a part of why people are angry about this.
mooshthedoosh
10/09/09, 06:09 PM
As people probably already know, in some black communities, the shades of skin is a sensitive issue, and some think of it as their own caste system. There's a reason you can find skin bleach in the store. Which is a part of why people are angry about this.
wow im slow. im guessing your black?
zion the lion
10/09/09, 06:12 PM
wow im slow. im guessing your black?
Yeah pretty much.
Read anything by Toni Morrison and you can see some of color classes. Or the chapelle skit where they call the Murphy's the blackest blacks in hollywood.
It's not as prominent within white culture as it was in the 1700s, but it used to be there as darker skin was considered a sign of being poor. Essentially, if you couldn't afford someone to do outside work or get your groceries, you were low class. It might still be like this in britain...
The Robert Downey Jr. thing was very different, as he was not portraying an african american - he was portraying a white person attempting to portray an african american, and inclusive within this is going to be an interesting commentary on race. It was controversial, but I haven't read any serious criticism of it by any prominent African-American theorists, while you can find a huge amount of criticism concerning the blackface minstrilsy culture.
Basically even beyond skin tone blackface is a perpetuation of the "magic negro" stereotype, that presents african-americans as always wanting to entertain people/having mystical powers caused by their simplicity (a la green mile). It's a very racist view, however since it's not as immediately racist as other views, it is easier to justify as "harmless", which is what i think the australian people basically said. It's very damaging in that it reinforces a harmful stereotype, as this 'magic negro' is just a more subtle way of calling blacks inferior and incapable of true humanity.
I've taken a few too many political theory classes.
kbi the crowing
10/09/09, 06:30 PM
Yes, it is racist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface
this
The Boat
10/09/09, 06:51 PM
I was born and live in australia and love this plpace most of the time, i dont consider myself an australian as im not an aboringal though, i would say that australia is extremely racist not that america is any better, but seriously this place just disgusts me sometimes, australia day is pretty much just excuse to be racist day and all the fucking aussie dudes with utes and their flag in the back wearing a singlet and boardshorts. I study Indigenous australian studies at university, and its just amazing to see how much mainstream society doesnt actually know about our history, pretty much everything they teach in schools and show on the media is false. this is not really that related to the black face thing but still, australia is pretty fucked up. everytime i talk about racism and australia i just seem angry and dont really make a point haha.
we have this thing here where people say 'we grew here you flew here' (mostly its the aussie dudes that put the sticker on the back of their ute) and thats for all the asians or muslims or whoever you hate. which is just sooooo fucking stupid i cant even begin to express my hate for it, its like people dont realise euopeans invaded australia just 300 years ago, i guess we didnt fly here though, we were on boats.
thats my rant for the day.
I was born and live in australia and love this plpace most of the time, i dont consider myself an australian as im not an aboringal though, i would say that australia is extremely racist not that america is any better, but seriously this place just disgusts me sometimes, australia day is pretty much just excuse to be racist day and all the fucking aussie dudes with utes and their flag in the back wearing a singlet and boardshorts. I study Indigenous australian studies at university, and its just amazing to see how much mainstream society doesnt actually know about our history, pretty much everything they teach in schools and show on the media is false. this is not really that related to the black face thing but still, australia is pretty fucked up. everytime i talk about racism and australia i just seem angry and dont really make a point haha.
we have this thing here where people say 'we grew here you flew here' (mostly its the aussie dudes that put the sticker on the back of their ute) and thats for all the asians or muslims or whoever you hate. which is just sooooo fucking stupid i cant even begin to express my hate for it, its like people dont realise euopeans invaded australia just 300 years ago, i guess we didnt fly here though, we were on boats.
thats my rant for the day.
that is a flawed argument. if you take that logic going back as far as you like you could say that nobody is from anywhere. everyone migrated from somewhere. you wouldn't be alive today if all this injustice hadn't taken place.
aussies are ignorant people in general. doesnt mean that they are racist, just means they are fucked up. Its true. Look at their whole aboriginal deal, and shit. I could go on and on.
so why are Australians ignorant in general?
i love how America have gone from being the dunces of the world to the elite again because they have voted a black president.
yes their are ignorant Australians, yes their are Americans, yes their are ignorant white people, yes their are ignorant black people.
making generlisations like that is incorrect though.
By the way, I love his laugh at the 10 second mark.
And yes, I kind of agree with him, it was disrespectful.
how? if a black person put white face paint on would that be disrespectful.
that being said it does obviously bring up the blackface issue.
they were performing as the jackson five who are black. i dont see the issue of putting black face paint on.
mooshthedoosh
10/09/09, 07:15 PM
how? if a black person put white face paint on would that be disrespectful.
that being said it does obviously bring up the blackface issue.
they were performing as the jackson five who are black. i dont see the issue of putting black face paint on.
thats cause your an aussie. you dont understand american issues. and since when do black people ever put white face paint on? The black face paint is historic in American culture to be painted as racist. Also, I say Aussies are ignorant in general because of their whole issues on immigrants and indigenous natives, and how they treat them.
how? if a black person put white face paint on would that be disrespectful.
that being said it does obviously bring up the blackface issue.
they were performing as the jackson five who are black. i dont see the issue of putting black face paint on.
If it stood by itself I don't think that putting black face paint on to portray a person is racist, but the fact that there is a long standing history of people doing that to insult and degrade a race of people it becomes very ignorant. It didn't help that they used a really dark shade either because it looked identical to blackface performers.
fortythieves
10/09/09, 07:18 PM
the video was just kind of stupid.
but the few people in this thread who are complaining about aussies making generalizations and ignorant assumptions are doing the same thing by judging all aussies by this one act.
Josh Weinstein
10/09/09, 07:19 PM
I went to high school in Connecticut and senior year, my english teacher had a copy of our school's 1948 year book. I was surprised to learn that at that time, our school had a minstrel show club. I thought minstrel shows died out in the 20s.
thats cause your an aussie. you dont understand american issues. and since when do black people ever put white face paint on? The black face paint is historic in American culture to be painted as racist. Also, I say Aussies are ignorant in general because of their whole issues on immigrants and indigenous natives, and how they treat them.
and a country in which the klu klux klan is a practicing organisation is fine?
what do you know about australian issues?
the video was just kind of stupid.
but the few people in this thread who are complaining about aussies making generalizations and ignorant assumptions are doing the same thing by judging all aussies by this one act.
the video was stupid. but its besides the point.
their was clearly no racial malice intended in it. two of the guys were sri lanken and indian.
fortythieves
10/09/09, 07:39 PM
the video was stupid. but its besides the point.
their was clearly no racial malice intended in it. two of the guys were sri lanken and indian.
I got that.
I really don't find it offensive.
EchoPark
10/09/09, 07:46 PM
to all ozzie dickheads in this thread, spending 3 days in NYC does not make you an expert on the USA so shut the fuck up
The Boat
10/09/09, 08:01 PM
that is a flawed argument. if you take that logic going back as far as you like you could say that nobody is from anywhere. everyone migrated from somewhere. you wouldn't be alive today if all this injustice hadn't taken place.
yeah i agree, didnt really get my point across, i mean it more so that i just have a problem with how badly australia as a whole treats our indigenous population i mean come on, they were actually counted as cattle and not as people at one stage, i just persoanlly dont want to be a part of a nation that doesnt even accept its origins and tries to cover it up. i just beleive that aboriginal people are true australians not people that have only been here for as long as we have.
mutualaddiction
10/09/09, 08:36 PM
Everyone in this thread needs to go check out Spike Lee's Bamboozled. Funny and poignant movie about the portrayal of African Americans in the media.
Wow, Australia sounds so much like America.
Inaction
10/09/09, 09:45 PM
The ignorance in this thread is absolutely ridiculous.
First of all, the skit was a rehash for a reunion show. It was originally shown twenty years ago. It doesn't excuse it in the slightest but it's a relevant point. Should it have been shown then, let alone now? No, but times were different then so I can't speak for those generations. As for now, it's provoking discussion here and in a way that's a good thing.
Secondly, comparing Aboriginals to African Americans is somewhat unfair to both sides. A comparison to native Americans is more apt.
Thirdly, was the skit in poor taste? Yes. Was it racist? Yes and no, but I don't think it was intentional.
I'd argue the issue of 'blackface' is a relatively new concept for most Australians (I myself only became familiar with it a few years ago by chance) due to the inherent lack of a black population in this country and the lack of knowledge about the civil rights movement. Do I think the people who performed it should have known better? Yes, undoubtedly. Do I think the producers of the show are just as much to blame? Yes. Do I think this country is to blame? No. I honestly don't think this country on any level harbors any animosity for African Americans, at least none that I've witnessed. It was a skit meant in jest that unfortunately wasn't well conceived or thought out, but I don't think they intended to cause offense. But they did and they have as far as I know apologized. I doubt it will ever happen again, especially for those involved.
Now making generalizations about a country and it's population is just as bad and yes, incredibly intentionally racist. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Yes, every single country has people who are racist and Australia is by no means an exception. However to sit there and make claims that we are 'the most racist society on the planet' is incredibly offensive. I'm not going to make excuses for the aboriginal issues we are dealing with. What happened in the past was disgusting but I've yet to meet a single person who felt otherwise. I'm not going to pretend to be knowledgeable about Aboriginal studies but I do know there's a long way to go without a doubt.
As for the other race related issues, it's as always a vocal minority.
Inaction
10/09/09, 10:07 PM
yeah i agree, didnt really get my point across, i mean it more so that i just have a problem with how badly australia as a whole treats our indigenous population i mean come on, they were actually counted as cattle and not as people at one stage, i just persoanlly dont want to be a part of a nation that doesnt even accept its origins and tries to cover it up. i just beleive that aboriginal people are true australians not people that have only been here for as long as we have.
There is some flawed logic here. Where do you draw the line and say it's now okay? How far does a country have to go to fix it's past mistakes? And even then, when the generations who were responsible for those acts are not longer alive or in control, should the current population be blamed or tarnished? Even when they are trying to make amends?
I'd say the country in general is ashamed of what happened in the past and embraces it's origins... somewhat. From my experience schools haven't tried to shy away from explaining the horrific details of the past (Rabbit Proof Fence anyone?) so I'd say yes, we accept our origins or at least the people I know (which really is all I can base it on). I'd say the governments apology (though long overdue) was a massive symbolic step forward. And the only outrage I witnessed was more personal (as in why should someone who wasn't around say sorry which is an issue in and of itself) not that they didn't deserve an apology.
Anyone who is born here, who is a citizen etc is a true Australian. To claim that a person is more of an Australian due to their ancestral heritage is just... strange. I'm no less of an Australian because of where my parents were born, no more would I be say for example more English just because one of my parents may have been born there. It's that sort of attitude, I feel, that drives some of the racism in this country, it's effectively the logic behind telling someone of Asian descent to 'go back to china or wherever you came from'.
murrich
10/09/09, 10:36 PM
aussies are ignorant people in general. doesnt mean that they are racist, just means they are fucked up. Its true. Look at their whole aboriginal deal, and shit. I could go on and on.
Haha, and some Americans aren't? Your post proves your ignorance.
Edit: The video is racist.
The Boat
10/09/09, 11:22 PM
There is some flawed logic here. Where do you draw the line and say it's now okay? How far does a country have to go to fix it's past mistakes? And even then, when the generations who were responsible for those acts are not longer alive or in control, should the current population be blamed or tarnished? Even when they are trying to make amends?
I'd say the country in general is ashamed of what happened in the past and embraces it's origins... somewhat. From my experience schools haven't tried to shy away from explaining the horrific details of the past (Rabbit Proof Fence anyone?) so I'd say yes, we accept our origins or at least the people I know (which really is all I can base it on). I'd say the governments apology (though long overdue) was a massive symbolic step forward. And the only outrage I witnessed was more personal (as in why should someone who wasn't around say sorry which is an issue in and of itself) not that they didn't deserve an apology.
Anyone who is born here, who is a citizen etc is a true Australian. To claim that a person is more of an Australian due to their ancestral heritage is just... strange. I'm no less of an Australian because of where my parents were born, no more would I be say for example more English just because one of my parents may have been born there. It's that sort of attitude, I feel, that drives some of the racism in this country, it's effectively the logic behind telling someone of Asian descent to 'go back to china or wherever you came from'.
I understand what youre saying thats been a big part of the problem, we didnt do all the bad stuff back then and it is kinda unfair for every generation to come to get the finger pointed at us saying look what you did to our people, i get that, and to k rudss apology that was just bullshit, gets him his place in history, there has been nothing real done since then.
and no offence (although unless youre a teacher i dont think youd take offence to this) but schools dont teach the truth, they teach crap, and rabbit proof fence is one movie that if you already feel like aboriginalss just drink and whatever youre not gona go watch it anyway. I'd say the general population is not ashamed at all, and thats why australia has earned this racist tag, there is a reason for it.
I dont wana get all up on my high horse here but i study indigenous australian studies at uni, and i had to go out of my way to do so, and i really didnt know shit before i started the course, everything i had learnt before this year has been proven to be completely false. and what the govern ment is still doing to the indigenous population is ridiculous, and they arent doing anything at all to help either, australia is the only developed county that still has areas that fall under 3rd wolrd standards of health and everything else, and the government isnt doing anything at all about it, because its only the abos right?
Not trying to offend anyone here whatever race or where youre from this is just somethign i feel really strongly about.
Inaction
10/10/09, 12:02 AM
I understand what youre saying thats been a big part of the problem, we didnt do all the bad stuff back then and it is kinda unfair for every generation to come to get the finger pointed at us saying look what you did to our people, i get that, and to k rudss apology that was just bullshit, gets him his place in history, there has been nothing real done since then.
and no offence (although unless youre a teacher i dont think youd take offence to this) but schools dont teach the truth, they teach crap, and rabbit proof fence is one movie that if you already feel like aboriginalss just drink and whatever youre not gona go watch it anyway. I'd say the general population is not ashamed at all, and thats why australia has earned this racist tag, there is a reason for it.
I dont wana get all up on my high horse here but i study indigenous australian studies at uni, and i had to go out of my way to do so, and i really didnt know shit before i started the course, everything i had learnt before this year has been proven to be completely false. and what the govern ment is still doing to the indigenous population is ridiculous, and they arent doing anything at all to help either, australia is the only developed county that still has areas that fall under 3rd wolrd standards of health and everything else, and the government isnt doing anything at all about it, because its only the abos right?
Not trying to offend anyone here whatever race or where youre from this is just somethign i feel really strongly about.
This really isn't the place for a discussion on Indigenous Australian and this is definitely getting off topic, so with that in mind I think the major issue is blame. There needs to be less focus on what happened and more on what we can do to change things. Having said that I won't deny I know shit all about this bar the basics so take it with a grain of salt.
And yeah, the apology was a hollow gesture. I won't argue with that. But it was one that needed to be made, regardless of the intent behind it. It was more the symbolism that I was talking about. The acknowledgement of guilt. Granted it's meaningless if you don't follow through but from what I understand it's a very difficult area and there is never going to be a quick solution.
I mentioned Rabbit Proof Fence because that movie was drilled into us (I lost count of how many times I watched that film). It's merely an example of schools not avoiding depicting some of the tragedies of the past. History (the compulsory school certificate subject, not HSC) as a subject in school is merely a way to scratch the surface, I don't expect that they can teach everything that happened in a few weeks. It glosses over a lot of details in order to paint a rather broad picture of what happened then and that's the case for well, everything that class. It's really up to the individual to delve deeper.
To say schools don't teach the truth is a very dangerous statement. I'd imagine there are massive omissions and evidently every school is different so I can't verify whether what I've been taught is true or not but I don't think this is some conspiracy. Having said that, I'm not a teacher so I'll take your word on most specific things relating to this topic.
How this all relates back to the thread topic is anyone's guess. But what I was really getting at is that modern Australian society isn't an inherently racist society. Like most things relating to these situations it's a vocal minority which tend to get attention.
Yes the video was racist, not it wasn't necessarily intentionally offensive and hopefully it will never happen again. I'm more surprised that in the course of production no one thought that hey, maybe this wasn't appropriate.
bladerdude360
10/10/09, 12:39 AM
Pretty sure it's the black face that people would take offense to.
Haha, and some Americans aren't? Your post proves your ignorance.
Edit: The video is racist.
people are surely wound to tight for thinking this is racist. they are clearly doing this in a light hearted manner.
zion the lion
10/10/09, 01:38 AM
how? if a black person put white face paint on would that be disrespectful.
that being said it does obviously bring up the blackface issue.
they were performing as the jackson five who are black. i dont see the issue of putting black face paint on.
I quoted myself to show you why I think it's offensive. I've honestly had little girls (like seven year olds) come up to me and tell me they dont feel pretty because of the shade of their skin and it's heartbreaking, because they're gorgeous.
As people probably already know, in some black communities, the shades of skin is a sensitive issue, and some think of it as their own caste system. There's a reason you can find skin bleach in the store. Which is a part of why people are angry about this.
This is why it's an issue. It's honestly an issue with a lot of black people, when my mom was a kid she would get chased home from school and get jumped because the other "darker" kids didnt think of her as black and would call her names like oreo and I know people who are darker who bleach their skin and bleach their kid's skin because it's always been pushed that lighter is prettier...it goes all the way back to the slave days when the light skinned blacks would be house slaves and work inside while the darker ones would be outside. So the fact that they didnt just use brown, but they used a midnight black color is what's wrong to me, they look ridiculous...and it doesnt matter to me if one or two weren't white, they all lacked the good judgment a 7 year old has.
I quoted myself to show you why I think it's offensive. I've honestly had little girls (like seven year olds) come up to me and tell me they dont feel pretty because of the shade of their skin and it's heartbreaking, because they're gorgeous.
This is why it's an issue. It's honestly an issue with a lot of black people, when my mom was a kid she would get chased home from school and get jumped because the other "darker" kids didnt think of her as black and would call her names like oreo and I know people who are darker who bleach their skin and bleach their kid's skin because it's always been pushed that lighter is prettier...it goes all the way back to the slave days when the light skinned blacks would be house slaves and work inside while the darker ones would be outside. So the fact that they didnt just use brown, but they used a midnight black color is what's wrong to me, they look ridiculous...and it doesnt matter to me if one or two weren't white, they all lacked the good judgment a 7 year old has.
if a girl doesnt think she pretty because shes black, how is that different to if a girl doesnt think shes pretty because she is to pasty or she feels her chest isnt big enough etc.
so if they used a lighter shade of black it would be ok? it either all has to be ok or none of it.
we live in a politically correct society today, which is great, but i cannot see how it is considered racist for a bunch of white guys (although two of them were asian, not that that matters) to put face paint on and replicate the jackson 5 should be taken so seriously. if they were red by all means use red face paint.
zion the lion
10/10/09, 02:17 AM
if a girl doesnt think she pretty because shes black, how is that different to if a girl doesnt think shes pretty because she is to pasty or she feels her chest isnt big enough etc.
so if they used a lighter shade of black it would be ok? it either all has to be ok or none of it.
we live in a politically correct society today, which is great, but i cannot see how it is considered racist for a bunch of white guys (although two of them were asian, not that that matters) to put face paint on and replicate the jackson 5 should be taken so seriously. if they were red by all means use red face paint.
I suggest you look up American racism and things having to do with the black community and shades of skin. I have self esteem issues when it comes to the size of my chest, but it's nothing compared to how I felt as a little kid about accidentally getting a tan or how I felt about my skin color in general. By the way, a seven year old shouldnt hate herself and decide that she's ugly just because she has thick coarse curly (beautiful if you ask me) hair, dark skin, and dark eyes.
If they had portrayed the jackson brothers as they actually are. They all werent the same exact shade of black. It felt like they were making a joke about how ridiculously dark they were, like people that dark naturally are just shucking and jiving fools.
theguy77
10/10/09, 02:32 AM
that is a flawed argument. if you take that logic going back as far as you like you could say that nobody is from anywhere. everyone migrated from somewhere. you wouldn't be alive today if all this injustice hadn't taken place.
actually, anthropologists have found, ironically enough, that the ancestry of every single person on this earth originated in africa and migrated through the middle east before spreading to the rest of the world. so technically, even though western bias is more against blacks and middle-eastern people (not to mention there's an important distinction to be made here between persians and arabs), what many dont realize is that no matter how much of a pure blood white european you may claim to be, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest that there is an irrevocable ancient ancestry from both africa and the middle east within your makeup. how people can draw the line and say "oh my ancestry didnt start until (insert year here) when europe became civilized and heavily populated by fair-skinned people" is beyond me. if you are a human you are african and you are middle eastern, period -- not ethnically, but racially.
theguy77
10/10/09, 02:37 AM
The ignorance in this thread is absolutely ridiculous.
First of all, the skit was a rehash for a reunion show. It was originally shown twenty years ago. It doesn't excuse it in the slightest but it's a relevant point. Should it have been shown then, let alone now? No, but times were different then so I can't speak for those generations. As for now, it's provoking discussion here and in a way that's a good thing.
Secondly, comparing Aboriginals to African Americans is somewhat unfair to both sides. A comparison to native Americans is more apt.
Thirdly, was the skit in poor taste? Yes. Was it racist? Yes and no, but I don't think it was intentional.
I'd argue the issue of 'blackface' is a relatively new concept for most Australians (I myself only became familiar with it a few years ago by chance) due to the inherent lack of a black population in this country and the lack of knowledge about the civil rights movement. Do I think the people who performed it should have known better? Yes, undoubtedly. Do I think the producers of the show are just as much to blame? Yes. Do I think this country is to blame? No. I honestly don't think this country on any level harbors any animosity for African Americans, at least none that I've witnessed. It was a skit meant in jest that unfortunately wasn't well conceived or thought out, but I don't think they intended to cause offense. But they did and they have as far as I know apologized. I doubt it will ever happen again, especially for those involved.
Now making generalizations about a country and it's population is just as bad and yes, incredibly intentionally racist. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Yes, every single country has people who are racist and Australia is by no means an exception. However to sit there and make claims that we are 'the most racist society on the planet' is incredibly offensive. I'm not going to make excuses for the aboriginal issues we are dealing with. What happened in the past was disgusting but I've yet to meet a single person who felt otherwise. I'm not going to pretend to be knowledgeable about Aboriginal studies but I do know there's a long way to go without a doubt.
As for the other race related issues, it's as always a vocal minority.
There is some flawed logic here. Where do you draw the line and say it's now okay? How far does a country have to go to fix it's past mistakes? And even then, when the generations who were responsible for those acts are not longer alive or in control, should the current population be blamed or tarnished? Even when they are trying to make amends?
I'd say the country in general is ashamed of what happened in the past and embraces it's origins... somewhat. From my experience schools haven't tried to shy away from explaining the horrific details of the past (Rabbit Proof Fence anyone?) so I'd say yes, we accept our origins or at least the people I know (which really is all I can base it on). I'd say the governments apology (though long overdue) was a massive symbolic step forward. And the only outrage I witnessed was more personal (as in why should someone who wasn't around say sorry which is an issue in and of itself) not that they didn't deserve an apology.
Anyone who is born here, who is a citizen etc is a true Australian. To claim that a person is more of an Australian due to their ancestral heritage is just... strange. I'm no less of an Australian because of where my parents were born, no more would I be say for example more English just because one of my parents may have been born there. It's that sort of attitude, I feel, that drives some of the racism in this country, it's effectively the logic behind telling someone of Asian descent to 'go back to china or wherever you came from'.
This really isn't the place for a discussion on Indigenous Australian and this is definitely getting off topic, so with that in mind I think the major issue is blame. There needs to be less focus on what happened and more on what we can do to change things. Having said that I won't deny I know shit all about this bar the basics so take it with a grain of salt.
And yeah, the apology was a hollow gesture. I won't argue with that. But it was one that needed to be made, regardless of the intent behind it. It was more the symbolism that I was talking about. The acknowledgement of guilt. Granted it's meaningless if you don't follow through but from what I understand it's a very difficult area and there is never going to be a quick solution.
I mentioned Rabbit Proof Fence because that movie was drilled into us (I lost count of how many times I watched that film). It's merely an example of schools not avoiding depicting some of the tragedies of the past. History (the compulsory school certificate subject, not HSC) as a subject in school is merely a way to scratch the surface, I don't expect that they can teach everything that happened in a few weeks. It glosses over a lot of details in order to paint a rather broad picture of what happened then and that's the case for well, everything that class. It's really up to the individual to delve deeper.
To say schools don't teach the truth is a very dangerous statement. I'd imagine there are massive omissions and evidently every school is different so I can't verify whether what I've been taught is true or not but I don't think this is some conspiracy. Having said that, I'm not a teacher so I'll take your word on most specific things relating to this topic.
How this all relates back to the thread topic is anyone's guess. But what I was really getting at is that modern Australian society isn't an inherently racist society. Like most things relating to these situations it's a vocal minority which tend to get attention.
Yes the video was racist, not it wasn't necessarily intentionally offensive and hopefully it will never happen again. I'm more surprised that in the course of production no one thought that hey, maybe this wasn't appropriate.
i'm loving this guy. props to you for standing up in defense of your country :thumbup:
joe has a cat
10/10/09, 02:46 AM
The amount of racism here is disgusting. I still always hear people refer to aboriginals as coons, boongs and the bogan slogans.
denissuxx
10/10/09, 05:39 AM
sigh
actually, anthropologists have found, ironically enough, that the ancestry of every single person on this earth originated in africa and migrated through the middle east before spreading to the rest of the world. so technically, even though western bias is more against blacks and middle-eastern people (not to mention there's an important distinction to be made here between persians and arabs), what many dont realize is that no matter how much of a pure blood white european you may claim to be, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest that there is an irrevocable ancient ancestry from both africa and the middle east within your makeup. how people can draw the line and say "oh my ancestry didnt start until (insert year here) when europe became civilized and heavily populated by fair-skinned people" is beyond me. if you are a human you are african and you are middle eastern, period -- not ethnically, but racially.
fair enough.
Because of it's use as a tool of ignorance in the past, something like that is in extremely bad taste.
agreed...this is horrible taste.
This really isn't the place for a discussion on Indigenous Australian and this is definitely getting off topic, so with that in mind I think the major issue is blame. There needs to be less focus on what happened and more on what we can do to change things. Having said that I won't deny I know shit all about this bar the basics so take it with a grain of salt.
And yeah, the apology was a hollow gesture. I won't argue with that. But it was one that needed to be made, regardless of the intent behind it. It was more the symbolism that I was talking about. The acknowledgement of guilt. Granted it's meaningless if you don't follow through but from what I understand it's a very difficult area and there is never going to be a quick solution.
I mentioned Rabbit Proof Fence because that movie was drilled into us (I lost count of how many times I watched that film). It's merely an example of schools not avoiding depicting some of the tragedies of the past. History (the compulsory school certificate subject, not HSC) as a subject in school is merely a way to scratch the surface, I don't expect that they can teach everything that happened in a few weeks. It glosses over a lot of details in order to paint a rather broad picture of what happened then and that's the case for well, everything that class. It's really up to the individual to delve deeper.
To say schools don't teach the truth is a very dangerous statement. I'd imagine there are massive omissions and evidently every school is different so I can't verify whether what I've been taught is true or not but I don't think this is some conspiracy. Having said that, I'm not a teacher so I'll take your word on most specific things relating to this topic.
How this all relates back to the thread topic is anyone's guess. But what I was really getting at is that modern Australian society isn't an inherently racist society. Like most things relating to these situations it's a vocal minority which tend to get attention.
Yes the video was racist, not it wasn't necessarily intentionally offensive and hopefully it will never happen again. I'm more surprised that in the course of production no one thought that hey, maybe this wasn't appropriate.
but saying that they were racist in performing this skit, is pretty much saying that these people went out there with the sole intent of offending all black people.
there may have been some themes which have been racial insensitive present but to call this racist, i feel is a bit much.
aussies are ignorant people in general..
racism?grand generalisation? pot calling kettle black?
jeremypeele
10/10/09, 07:12 AM
k739n2VEsbA
Being an Australian myself i cannot see how this is defamatory or derogatory in any way? Am i missing something? Am i ignorant or a racist?
If so, by all means can someone please educate me on the matter.
When it comes to matters like this, I always think of how i would feel if it were done to me. If black guys painted their faces white, I wouldn't call it racist, I would probably just laugh. The Black community in America will always be touchy about race matters, which i guess they should be.
I personally don't find that video racist, It was just so overly done that it was hilarious. But on the other hand, if this sketch was of The Partridge Family, and the people in the sketch were black with white faces, would most people find that racist?
jeremypeele
10/10/09, 07:24 AM
I want to move to Australia.
mooshthedoosh
10/10/09, 07:25 AM
haha i love the flack im getting for my comments. America does have racism/ignorance as well, and I'm only basing my statements on strictly opinion of people from Australia. But to give substantial proof, I started doing research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_attacks_on_Indian_students_in_ Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_Violence_In_Australia
Now all this is pretty recent in years. I'm sure you won't disagree when I say there is a ton of ignorance towards immigrants in Australia, about how "there are too many Asians in Australia now" or "those arabs are fucking lame, they beat up anything that moves." I know I'm generalizing, but I'm sure you hear it. I'm not Australian, but I've witnessed it albeit forums and other internet social sites. America can be very ignorant, I agree. But at least most of us are racially sensitive (sometimes too much) as to know when we have crossed the line and at least try to overcome barriers. There are lots of multicultural organizations here that call for multiculturalism, and I don't think Australia has that yet.
haha i love the flack im getting for my comments. America does have racism/ignorance as well, and I'm only basing my statements on strictly opinion of people from Australia. But to give substantial proof, I started doing research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_attacks_on_Indian_students_in_ Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_Violence_In_Australia
Now all this is pretty recent in years. I'm sure you won't disagree when I say there is a ton of ignorance towards immigrants in Australia, about how "there are too many Asians in Australia now" or "those arabs are fucking lame, they beat up anything that moves." I know I'm generalizing, but I'm sure you hear it. I'm not Australian, and I've witnessed it albeit forums and other internet social sites. America can be very ignorant, I agree. But at least most of us are racially sensitive (sometimes too much) as to know when we have crossed the line and at least try to overcome barriers. There are lots of multicultural organizations here that call for multiculturalism, and I don't think Australia has that yet.
What about when Obama became president? A black president should not be a big deal in a first world country yet it was held as a HUGE step forward and the racism and ignorance that came from it was monumental (just look at any youtube video of his inauguration).You keep going on as if america is far better than Australia in terms of acceptance of race when in reality all you have to do to dissolve your claim is look south.
mooshthedoosh
10/10/09, 08:11 AM
What about when Obama became president? A black president should not be a big deal in a first world country yet it was held as a HUGE step forward and the racism and ignorance that came from it was monumental (just look at any youtube video of his inauguration).You keep going on as if america is far better than Australia in terms of acceptance of race when in reality all you have to do to dissolve your claim is look south.
Good point. America has always been a bipartisan country with two different value sets. However, the fact that a minority was elected president merits the change that America is experiencing. Do you see any non-white politician in the Australian system?
Don't get me wrong though. There are things about America that absolutely disgust me, and it makes me not want to acknowledge that I am indeed American. I identify strongly with Michael Moore. I hate ignorance wherever it may be, and America is not at all higher than Australia in that point.
crushlustcrash
10/10/09, 08:30 AM
aussies are ignorant people in general. doesnt mean that they are racist, just means they are fucked up. Its true. Look at their whole aboriginal deal, and shit. I could go on and on.
i couldn't agree more.
showstopper
10/10/09, 08:49 AM
Australia is the most racist society on the planet. The sheer audacity of this stunt and the feigned ignorance by the host and the performers that they thought it was okay to paint their faces black and dance around mimicking talented black entertainers lends to their stupidity.
Australians like to think they know everything and carry themselves with a smug self satisfaction. To hear you admit your ignorance is refreshing
This is one of the best quotes i have read on this site for a very long time.You hit the nail on the head.
cory-182
10/10/09, 09:22 AM
k739n2VEsbA
Being an Australian myself i cannot see how this is defamatory or derogatory in any way? Am i missing something? Am i ignorant or a racist?
If so, by all means can someone please educate me on the matter.
I was listening to the radio a few days ago and heard that you Australians imposed a limit on the number of beers each fan could bring to a race car event. That number being 24!!!! Is this true? If so I don't see the point of a limit.
And for some special race...like the big one...the limit was 36 beers per fan. That's insane.
chassmariee
10/10/09, 09:37 AM
Racist as fuck.
Theseventhson
10/10/09, 10:43 AM
but saying that they were racist in performing this skit, is pretty much saying that these people went out there with the sole intent of offending all black people.
there may have been some themes which have been racial insensitive present but to call this racist, i feel is a bit much.
Racism isn't always conscious or intended, and yes, the video is racist.
so why are Australians ignorant in general?
i love how America have gone from being the dunces of the world to the elite again because they have voted a black president.
yes their are ignorant Australians, yes their are Americans, yes their are ignorant white people, yes their are ignorant black people.
making generlisations like that is incorrect though.
Grammar fail!
Other than that, I agree with your statement.
theguy77
10/10/09, 11:21 AM
the hyperbole in this thread is too much. its ridiculous how one video suddenly makes australia the most racist country in the world.
joe has a cat
10/10/09, 11:28 AM
It happened a few days ago.
Carolina.Alex
10/10/09, 02:00 PM
What about when Obama became president? A black president should not be a big deal in a first world country yet it was held as a HUGE step forward and the racism and ignorance that came from it was monumental (just look at any youtube video of his inauguration).You keep going on as if america is far better than Australia in terms of acceptance of race when in reality all you have to do to dissolve your claim is look south.
Not everyone from the "South" is racist.
theguy77
10/10/09, 02:14 PM
It happened a few days ago.
haha my bad, my post was edited accordingly
Not everyone from the "South" is racist.
Never said they where.
NeededYouMost
10/10/09, 03:01 PM
k739n2VEsbA
Being an Australian myself i cannot see how this is defamatory or derogatory in any way? Am i missing something? Am i ignorant or a racist?
If so, by all means can someone please educate me on the matter.
i can understand how you don't see anything wrong with that video. And that's because you Australians are extremely racists, as in, it is one of the worst places to live for nonwhites. So yes, you don't see anything wrong with that. You probably don't see anything wrong with having black people drink from different water fountains or use their own lesser bathrooms. Hell, you probably think they shouldn't go to your schools and say "Yesum Masta" when ever you ask one a question.
NeededYouMost
10/10/09, 03:24 PM
Australia is the most racist society on the planet. The sheer audacity of this stunt and the feigned ignorance by the host and the performers that they thought it was okay to paint their faces black and dance around mimicking talented black entertainers lends to their stupidity.
Australians like to think they know everything and carry themselves with a smug self satisfaction. To hear you admit your ignorance is refreshing
agreed
As people probably already know, in some black communities, the shades of skin is a sensitive issue, and some think of it as their own caste system. There's a reason you can find skin bleach in the store. Which is a part of why people are angry about this.
You may not fully grasp the nonsense that you are speaking as you are still at a young age. But here's a start, lookup the "bleach" you speak of and who the product typically attracts.
that is a flawed argument. if you take that logic going back as far as you like you could say that nobody is from anywhere. everyone migrated from somewhere. you wouldn't be alive today if all this injustice hadn't taken place.
dumb
so why are Australians ignorant in general?
i love how America have gone from being the dunces of the world to the elite again because they have voted a black president.
yes their are ignorant Australians, yes their are Americans, yes their are ignorant white people, yes their are ignorant black people.
making generlisations like that is incorrect though.
We voted a black President. We also drop the N word in conversations to make jokes. Doesn't mean we want to lynch a black man, or make racist jokes about them or any other race. We've gone through our tough times, our shameful periods, you Aussies haven't. And to argue that this isn't racist is pointless. Its like trying to convert an Evolution believer into Christianity Its pointless.
how? if a black person put white face paint on would that be disrespectful.
that being said it does obviously bring up the blackface issue.
they were performing as the jackson five who are black. i dont see the issue of putting black face paint on.
You won't see it because you're an idiot. Just give up. One thing is, I didn't know the Jackson five was as black as tar. But hell, I never really looked, maybe all black people are black as night. Anyway, god bless Australia.
I got that.
I really don't find it offensive.
you're one of the worst
The ignorance in this thread is absolutely ridiculous.
First of all, the skit was a rehash for a reunion show. It was originally shown twenty years ago. It doesn't excuse it in the slightest but it's a relevant point. Should it have been shown then, let alone now? No, but times were different then so I can't speak for those generations. As for now, it's provoking discussion here and in a way that's a good thing.
Secondly, comparing Aboriginals to African Americans is somewhat unfair to both sides. A comparison to native Americans is more apt.
Thirdly, was the skit in poor taste? Yes. Was it racist? Yes and no, but I don't think it was intentional.
I'd argue the issue of 'blackface' is a relatively new concept for most Australians (I myself only became familiar with it a few years ago by chance) due to the inherent lack of a black population in this country and the lack of knowledge about the civil rights movement. Do I think the people who performed it should have known better? Yes, undoubtedly. Do I think the producers of the show are just as much to blame? Yes. Do I think this country is to blame? No. I honestly don't think this country on any level harbors any animosity for African Americans, at least none that I've witnessed. It was a skit meant in jest that unfortunately wasn't well conceived or thought out, but I don't think they intended to cause offense. But they did and they have as far as I know apologized. I doubt it will ever happen again, especially for those involved.
Now making generalizations about a country and it's population is just as bad and yes, incredibly intentionally racist. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Yes, every single country has people who are racist and Australia is by no means an exception. However to sit there and make claims that we are 'the most racist society on the planet' is incredibly offensive. I'm not going to make excuses for the aboriginal issues we are dealing with. What happened in the past was disgusting but I've yet to meet a single person who felt otherwise. I'm not going to pretend to be knowledgeable about Aboriginal studies but I do know there's a long way to go without a doubt.
As for the other race related issues, it's as always a vocal minority.
Just in case you aren't aware, not all black people are "African American" They can be Canadian, Japanese, British, AFRICAN...
I recommend you quit trying to defend this video and your country.Such a video wouldn't fly over here, it got onto your airwaves pretty easily. You don't need to argue which country is more racist, it's clear.
people are surely wound to tight for thinking this is racist. they are clearly doing this in a light hearted manner.
Stay in Australia.
zion the lion
10/10/09, 03:27 PM
agreed
You may not fully grasp the nonsense that you are speaking as you are still at a young age. But here's a start, lookup the "bleach" you speak of and who the product typically attracts.
dumb
We voted a black President. We also drop the N word in conversations to make jokes. Doesn't mean we want to lynch a black man, or make racist jokes about them or any other race. We've gone through our tough times, our shameful periods, you Aussies haven't. And to argue that this isn't racist is pointless. Its like trying to convert an Evolution believer into Christianity Its pointless.
You won't see it because you're an idiot. Just give up. One thing is, I didn't know the Jackson five was as black as tar. But hell, I never really looked, maybe all black people are black as night. Anyway, god bless Australia.
you're one of the worst
Just in case you aren't aware, not all black people are "African American" They can be Canadian, Japanese, British, AFRICAN...
I recommend you quit trying to defend this video and your country.Such a video wouldn't fly over here, it got onto your airwaves pretty easily. You don't need to argue which country is more racist, it's clear.
Stay in Australia.
You troll well asshole. Please do tell me what you know about skin bleach.
llwilliamsll
10/10/09, 03:44 PM
Dropping the N word = automatic laughs? Looks like I've got a new punchline for tonight's party.
Carolina.Alex
10/10/09, 04:05 PM
Never said they where.
didn't think you were, just making sure. im not gonna lie, there's a lot of racism here.
i can understand how you don't see anything wrong with that video. And that's because you Australians are extremely racists, as in, it is one of the worst places to live for nonwhites. So yes, you don't see anything wrong with that. You probably don't see anything wrong with having black people drink from different water fountains or use their own lesser bathrooms. Hell, you probably think they shouldn't go to your schools and say "Yesum Masta" when ever you ask one a question.
of course thats racist, i would be ashamed if anything like that ever happened to another human.
what are you basing Australia being extreme racists on?
Grammar fail!
Other than that, I agree with your statement.
whoops. that was bad.
I was listening to the radio a few days ago and heard that you Australians imposed a limit on the number of beers each fan could bring to a race car event. That number being 24!!!! Is this true? If so I don't see the point of a limit.
And for some special race...like the big one...the limit was 36 beers per fan. That's insane.
i have never heard of that. but in most/all cases you aren't allowed to bring drinks into major events. that is probably the stupidest thing i have ever heard.
This is one of the best quotes i have read on this site for a very long time.You hit the nail on the head.
how did he? the hypocrisy in this thread is amazing.
didn't think you were, just making sure. im not gonna lie, there's a lot of racism here.
i would say most of it is generated towards Australians at the moment.
comments like "all australians are ignorant racists" do make me laugh.
Racism isn't always conscious or intended, and yes, the video is racist.
understandable. i believe it's all contextual though. im just finding the definition of racism becoming flawed and extreme.
writeacliche
10/10/09, 05:35 PM
If black comedians can get 1 hour blocks on comedy central or BET mocking every race in the books then this is fine. It wasn't funny. But it wasn't offensive.
theguy77
10/10/09, 05:45 PM
agreed
You may not fully grasp the nonsense that you are speaking as you are still at a young age. But here's a start, lookup the "bleach" you speak of and who the product typically attracts.
dumb
We voted a black President. We also drop the N word in conversations to make jokes. Doesn't mean we want to lynch a black man, or make racist jokes about them or any other race. We've gone through our tough times, our shameful periods, you Aussies haven't. And to argue that this isn't racist is pointless. Its like trying to convert an Evolution believer into Christianity Its pointless.
You won't see it because you're an idiot. Just give up. One thing is, I didn't know the Jackson five was as black as tar. But hell, I never really looked, maybe all black people are black as night. Anyway, god bless Australia.
you're one of the worst
Just in case you aren't aware, not all black people are "African American" They can be Canadian, Japanese, British, AFRICAN...
I recommend you quit trying to defend this video and your country.Such a video wouldn't fly over here, it got onto your airwaves pretty easily. You don't need to argue which country is more racist, it's clear.
Stay in Australia.
you need to shut the fuck up. you're trying to argue this without knowing anything about australia and its people like you who give americans the image of brash ignorance and pompous patriotism.
NeededYouMost
10/10/09, 07:03 PM
i would say most of it is generated towards Australians at the moment.
comments like "all australians are ignorant racists" do make me laugh.
I think people can base that "comment" by reading a lot of the things you have already posted. You are clearly ignorant. If ignorance correlates to racists, then you sir are a dumb racist.
you need to shut the fuck up. you're trying to argue this without knowing anything about australia and its people like you who give americans the image of brash ignorance and pompous patriotism.
I could simply respond to this by saying "you don't know who i am, how do you know my parents aren't Australian and that I had to go there every fucking summer for the past 22 years thus equaling to about 6 years worth of time spent in Australian." but no im not going to argue that. Instead Im going to stick to my convictions that Australia is a racist place. if that's a problem for you then too bad. I've heard and read enough to know that a black man in Australia is almost like a elephant walking down the streets of Manhattan. Something to be gawked at and stereotyped.
theguy77
10/10/09, 07:07 PM
I could simply respond to this by saying "you don't know who i am, how do you know my parents aren't Australian and that I had to go there every fucking summer for the past 22 years thus equaling to about 6 years worth of time spent in Australian." but no im not going to argue that. Instead Im going to stick to my convictions that Australia is a racist place. if that's a problem for you then too bad. I've heard and read enough to know that a black man in Australia is almost like a elephant walking down the streets of Manhattan. Something to be gawked at and stereotyped.
well i feel sorry for you that your "convictions" are derived from what you read and hear. other countries can easily read about america's right wing nutjobs and assume america has more bigotry and wealth-derived elitism and support for unethical corporations than any other country as well.
murrich
10/10/09, 07:13 PM
I think people can base that "comment" by reading a lot of the things you have already posted. You are clearly ignorant. If ignorance correlates to racists, then you sir are a dumb racist.
I could simply respond to this by saying "you don't know who i am, how do you know my parents aren't Australian and that I had to go there every fucking summer for the past 22 years thus equaling to about 6 years worth of time spent in Australian." but no im not going to argue that. Instead Im going to stick to my convictions that Australia is a racist place. if that's a problem for you then too bad. I've heard and read enough to know that a black man in Australia is almost like a elephant walking down the streets of Manhattan. Something to be gawked at and stereotyped.
Turns out you're wrong, I live in Australia and that is not the case at all. I agree with the guy77, it's people like you who give Americans a bad name.
NeededYouMost
10/10/09, 07:21 PM
Turns out you're wrong, I live in Australia and that is not the case at all. I agree with the guy77, it's people like you who give Americans a bad name.
Who taught you how to argue? That's like saying "I'm not a racist because I have a black friend" A fool doesn't think he's a fool. A crazy person doesn't think he's crazy. What makes this any different? An ignoramus, which I will generalize that all Australians are, don't think they are such.
well i feel sorry for you that your "convictions" are derived from what you read and hear. other countries can easily read about america's right wing nutjobs and assume america has more bigotry and wealth-derived elitism and support for unethical corporations than any other country as well.
So you're saying that people should only believe things if they actually witness it. So nobody is a racist unless I personally see them lynch a person of a different race? And watching the news, even though I know are biased and let us know what they want us to know, is a complete waste of time. Reading books is completely and utterly useless, and listening to other peoples experience should not bare any weight.
"ap.net, where the wise are otherwise"
-NeededYouMost
Inaction
10/10/09, 07:25 PM
but saying that they were racist in performing this skit, is pretty much saying that these people went out there with the sole intent of offending all black people.
there may have been some themes which have been racial insensitive present but to call this racist, i feel is a bit much.
Racism, like many things, doesn't always have to be intentional.
haha i love the flack im getting for my comments. America does have racism/ignorance as well, and I'm only basing my statements on strictly opinion of people from Australia. But to give substantial proof, I started doing research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_attacks_on_Indian_students_in_ Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_Violence_In_Australia
Now all this is pretty recent in years. I'm sure you won't disagree when I say there is a ton of ignorance towards immigrants in Australia, about how "there are too many Asians in Australia now" or "those arabs are fucking lame, they beat up anything that moves." I know I'm generalizing, but I'm sure you hear it. I'm not Australian, but I've witnessed it albeit forums and other internet social sites. America can be very ignorant, I agree. But at least most of us are racially sensitive (sometimes too much) as to know when we have crossed the line and at least try to overcome barriers. There are lots of multicultural organizations here that call for multiculturalism, and I don't think Australia has that yet.
Wikipedia is not a decent source. But for the sake of a rebuttal.
The 2009 attacks was a vocal minority. The acts were wildly condemned and not all had racist motivations.
White Australia Policy was in the past. I'm not going to bring up slavery and use it as justification of why America may still be a racist country. I can only use it to claim that America at one stage was racist.
The third and forth link only bring up one recent event: The cronulla riots. Again, a vocal minority and an act which was condemned by the wider population. Both sides were violent. The entire situation was ridiculous and the situation has been dealt with.
I'm not going to disagree with their being some degree of racist sentiment in Australia. But throwing that in the face of the entire nation is completely and utterly unfair.
Also, basing an argument off interactions on the internet or social websites is ridiculous and completely damages any claim you may make. I could quite easily say America is incredibly racist to Australia based off this thead alone, but that would be stupid. Anonymity breeds stupidity. So I'm going to take the word of people who actually live here over the word of someone's who's experiences are severely limited.
Good point. America has always been a bipartisan country with two different value sets. However, the fact that a minority was elected president merits the change that America is experiencing. Do you see any non-white politician in the Australian system?
Don't get me wrong though. There are things about America that absolutely disgust me, and it makes me not want to acknowledge that I am indeed American. I identify strongly with Michael Moore. I hate ignorance wherever it may be, and America is not at all higher than Australia in that point.
I'm glad you asked. I know shit all about our politicans but I can even name one straight off the top of my head, Penny Wong. A lesbian politician of Asian descent.
As for the Prime Minister, which I'm guessing is what you are really trying to get at, it's not an easy situation. For a country with a predominantly 'white' population (as in very very white) the likelihood of a PM being of another background is small. We've also had a female deputy PM (think vice president), which is more than you've had. So could I now claim that America is more sexist than Australia?
Inaction
10/10/09, 07:25 PM
We voted a black President. We also drop the N word in conversations to make jokes. Doesn't mean we want to lynch a black man, or make racist jokes about them or any other race. We've gone through our tough times, our shameful periods, you Aussies haven't. And to argue that this isn't racist is pointless. Its like trying to convert an Evolution believer into Christianity Its pointless.
Being Christian and a believer in evolution aren't exclusive. You can be both.
Just in case you aren't aware, not all black people are "African American" They can be Canadian, Japanese, British, AFRICAN...
I recommend you quit trying to defend this video and your country.Such a video wouldn't fly over here, it got onto your airwaves pretty easily. You don't need to argue which country is more racist, it's clear.
Providing context for a situation =/= defending it. I've stated several times that I thought the video was racist, inappropriate and should never have been aired. Debating whether or not the video would have aired over there is irrelevant. Half of what is on TV probably wouldn't air in parts of the middle east. Different cultures.
Stay in Australia.
Apparently you don't mind making racist remarks, so am I allowed to now say that your country is the most racist in the world seems we love hyperbole in this thread?
If you are going to troll, at least do a decent job of it.
murrich
10/10/09, 07:26 PM
Who taught you how to argue? That's like saying "I'm not a racist because I have a black friend" A fool doesn't think he's a fool. A crazy person doesn't think he's crazy. What makes this any different? An ignoramus, which I will generalize that all Australians are, don't think they are such.
So you're saying that people should only believe things if they actually witness it. So nobody is a racist unless I personally see them lynch a person of a different race? And watching the news, even though I know are biased and let us know what they want us to know, is a complete waste of time. Reading books is completely and utterly useless, and listening to other peoples experience should not bare any weight.
"ap.net, where the wise are otherwise"
-NeededYouMost
Do you think there's only five black people in Australia? You clearly have no idea about Australia if you think they are gawked at.
Inaction
10/10/09, 07:32 PM
Who taught you how to argue? That's like saying "I'm not a racist because I have a black friend" A fool doesn't think he's a fool. A crazy person doesn't think he's crazy. What makes this any different? An ignoramus, which I will generalize that all Australians are, don't think they are such.
That doesn't even relate.
You said you have 'heard and read' so how do you know Australia is racist? Based on someones experiences. How does he know Australia isn't racist? Based off his own experiences. Same basis, except his is automatically more valid. His source is primary, yours is secondary.
Therefore his trumps yours.
theguy77
10/10/09, 07:48 PM
Who taught you how to argue? That's like saying "I'm not a racist because I have a black friend" A fool doesn't think he's a fool. A crazy person doesn't think he's crazy. What makes this any different? An ignoramus, which I will generalize that all Australians are, don't think they are such.
So you're saying that people should only believe things if they actually witness it. So nobody is a racist unless I personally see them lynch a person of a different race? And watching the news, even though I know are biased and let us know what they want us to know, is a complete waste of time. Reading books is completely and utterly useless, and listening to other peoples experience should not bare any weight.
"ap.net, where the wise are otherwise"
-NeededYouMost
what the fuck IS this shit? never come in the politics forum again please.
I think people can base that "comment" by reading a lot of the things you have already posted. You are clearly ignorant. If ignorance correlates to racists, then you sir are a dumb racist.
I could simply respond to this by saying "you don't know who i am, how do you know my parents aren't Australian and that I had to go there every fucking summer for the past 22 years thus equaling to about 6 years worth of time spent in Australian." but no im not going to argue that. Instead Im going to stick to my convictions that Australia is a racist place. if that's a problem for you then too bad. I've heard and read enough to know that a black man in Australia is almost like a elephant walking down the streets of Manhattan. Something to be gawked at and stereotyped.
i am an Australian, not an American, therefore i have had no exposure to the racial implications of putting black face paint on. whilst it may be a racist sentiment in your country it isnt in ours, and if it is, it clearly does not have the same implications. no, we do not have the black population equal to that off America by any means. the racial prejudice that your country has amassed over its hundreds of years of racial intolerance does not make the rest of the world ignorant or racist, simply because they do not share your mistakes of the past. by your logic i could point out that America still has a practicing klu klux klan organisation therefore America is a racist place.
and how are you not a racist for stereotyping Australians as people who gawk at a black man walking down the street. that is 100% not true at all, at very least in the part i am from. that is an equally ignorant and racist comment. i feel alot more racist than a group of Australians putting face paint on in a jackson 5 tribute that was clearly done in a light hearted manner. i feel there are a lot more pressing racial issues in both Australia and America.
Providing context for a situation =/= defending it. I've stated several times that I thought the video was racist, inappropriate and should never have been aired. Debating whether or not the video would have aired over there is irrelevant. Half of what is on TV probably wouldn't air in parts of the middle east. Different cultures.
i still feel it had every right to be aired. i don't see an enormous problem with it. does that make me racist? it was clearly done in a light hearted manner.
i can understand that for some people there may have been racial implications present. but where do we draw the line?
what the fuck IS this shit? never come in the politics forum again please.
thank you. the hypocrisy in every one of that guys points was unbelievable.
Inaction
10/10/09, 08:02 PM
i still feel it had every right to be aired. i don't see an enormous problem with it. does that make me racist? it was clearly done in a light hearted manner.
i can understand that for some people there may have been racial implications present. but where do we draw the line?
I don't think it should have been aired. Did it have the right to be aired? Maybe. I don't think you can really debate that without getting into much deeper discussions on freedom of speech etc. It wasn't hate motivated so that's why I say maybe. It was offensive though, especially when you have an American judging it. That in itself is offensive and stupid.
For the general Australian population who wouldn't have any interaction with the concept of "blackface" I don't think there would be a problem. It was, as Harry Connick Jnr pointed out not done with any intention other than entertainment and lighthearted jest. I'd imagine the people performing it would have been more aware of the concept though. But I digress.
There is no way to draw a line. It merely comes down to people's personal convictions. If something is going to, or may offend, then yeah maybe you shouldn't be doing it without good reason. In this case I don't think having a laugh is a good enough justification.
Black Face minstrelsy only originated in America, it occurred world-wide. The ignorance about it is not a product of a lack of racism, instead it is a product of a much more pervasive kind of racism.
showstopper
10/10/09, 09:03 PM
how did he? the hypocrisy in this thread is amazing.Australia has the 3rd highest HDI [human development index] in the world where as usa is in 13th position,yet australia stands first among racist attacks.Australia should be ashamed about that.
Inaction
10/10/09, 09:10 PM
Australia has the 3rd highest HDI [human development index] in the world where as usa is in 13th position,yet australia stands first among racist attacks.Australia should be ashamed about that.
Funny you should say that. You should be ashamed of agreeing with the racist remark: "Australians like to think they know everything and carry themselves with a smug self satisfaction."
And would you mind clarifying what racist attacks you are referencing? And where you got the information that we are ranked first globally based on racially-motivated attacks?
showstopper
10/10/09, 09:26 PM
Funny you should say that. You should be ashamed of agreeing with the racist remark: "Australians like to think they know everything and carry themselves with a smug self satisfaction."
And would you mind clarifying what racist attacks you are referencing? And where you got the information that we are ranked first globally based on racially-motivated attacks?I quoted the racist remark to make fun of it and it is obvious that australians frequently hit the news when it comes to racism.For example the recent racist attacks on indian students in australia.
Inaction
10/10/09, 09:36 PM
I quoted the racist remark to make fun of it and it is obvious that australians frequently hit the news when it comes to racism.For example the recent racist attacks on indian students in australia.
I fail to see how that made fun of it. Throwing support behind it is the complete opposite. Seems like you are trying to backpedal now.
One event =/= frequent. Especially an event which wasn't entirely motivated by race ("While McCarthy admitted that there was an element of racism involved in the attack on Indians, most of the attacks were primarily criminal in nature." - McCarthy being the Australian High Commissioner). And once again it was an event which was condemned by the greater public as far as I'm aware.
And even then, I still don't know where the statement that we are worst country regarding racially motivated attacks came from. I'm not aware of any conclusive study.
I'll be the first to admit there are racist people in this (or any) country, but some of this things being said in this thread are ridiculous and incredibly offensive. I don't get how the actions of a small number of people somehow represent an entire nation. They sure as hell don't represent anyone I know.
fortythieves
10/10/09, 09:41 PM
you're one of the worst
One of the worst what exactly?
Broden Terry
10/10/09, 11:26 PM
While it may not have been intended to be racist, I certainly would have found it offensive. As much as we try to deny it, we're an extremely racist country and that isn't acceptable.
showstopper
10/10/09, 11:51 PM
I fail to see how that made fun of it. Throwing support behind it is the complete opposite. Seems like you are trying to backpedal now.
One event =/= frequent. Especially an event which wasn't entirely motivated by race ("While McCarthy admitted that there was an element of racism involved in the attack on Indians, most of the attacks were primarily criminal in nature." - McCarthy being the Australian High Commissioner). And once again it was an event which was condemned by the greater public as far as I'm aware.
And even then, I still don't know where the statement that we are worst country regarding racially motivated attacks came from. I'm not aware of any conclusive study.
I'll be the first to admit there are racist people in this (or any) country, but some of this things being said in this thread are ridiculous and incredibly offensive. I don't get how the actions of a small number of people somehow represent an entire nation. They sure as hell don't represent anyone I know.
I am not saying that the entire country is racist but when it comes to racist attacks,most of the time its the australians.
While it may not have been intended to be racist, I certainly would have found it offensive. As much as we try to deny it, we're an extremely racist country and that isn't acceptable.
im starting to think everyone is inherently racist. by everyone on heres definition of racist you cant look sideways without doing something that someone else may consider racist.
Australia has the 3rd highest HDI [human development index] in the world where as usa is in 13th position,yet australia stands first among racist attacks.Australia should be ashamed about that.
how do you measure racial attacks?
I am not saying that the entire country is racist but when it comes to racist attacks,most of the time its the australians.
this is a stupid thing to say. thats like saying when people start stupid wars, its usually Americans.
ghostyouare
10/11/09, 02:42 AM
It is racist in America, not exactly racist in Australia.
Racism is subjective.
TheFury
10/11/09, 03:44 AM
haha i love the flack im getting for my comments. America does have racism/ignorance as well, and I'm only basing my statements on strictly opinion of people from Australia. But to give substantial proof, I started doing research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_attacks_on_Indian_students_in_ Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_policy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_Violence_In_Australia
Now all this is pretty recent in years. I'm sure you won't disagree when I say there is a ton of ignorance towards immigrants in Australia, about how "there are too many Asians in Australia now" or "those arabs are fucking lame, they beat up anything that moves." I know I'm generalizing, but I'm sure you hear it. I'm not Australian, but I've witnessed it albeit forums and other internet social sites. America can be very ignorant, I agree. But at least most of us are racially sensitive (sometimes too much) as to know when we have crossed the line and at least try to overcome barriers. There are lots of multicultural organizations here that call for multiculturalism, and I don't think Australia has that yet.
http://www.wwda.org.au/portmul.htm
I don't know of any organised hate groups in Australia either. While America has the KKK, Aryan Nations, Skinheads, National Alliance, Jewish Defense League and the New Black Panther Party, among many more. Also, for all those people saying Australia is the most racist country, where are all these studies that suggest it is? So far, no one has provided any real facts on the matter, just their own bias.
joe has a cat
10/11/09, 04:15 AM
I don't know of any organised hate groups in Australia either.
We have just as many as America.
showstopper
10/11/09, 04:28 AM
how do you measure racial attacks?Dude you need not measure or scale racism,but whether u agree or not racism is rampant in australia.Dont cover the truth and say everyone in the world is racist.
joeag1985
10/11/09, 06:00 AM
I wouldn't say racist. Just not funny or entertaining whatsoever.
im starting to think everyone is inherently racist. by everyone on heres definition of racist you cant look sideways without doing something that someone else may consider racist.
Yes.
It is racist in America, not exactly racist in Australia.
Racism is subjective.
Exactly. It's all about context. The way it was meant to be viewed was grown men taking the piss out of themselves by dressing up as a famous music group that had infinitely more talent than them. Whether they were black or not makes no difference in this context, the face-paint was a way of identifying themselves as portraying the jackson 5 who happen to be black. Hence in Australia, not racist. Switch out of the context in which it was intended and take into consideration events that have occurred in America (of which i don't pretend to know enough about) and I'm sure it may be seen as racist. Because it was obviously intended to be viewed by Australians there was no offense meant by those involved. With the fact that an American happened to be a judge I'm sure in hindsight those involved would be incredibly embarrassed and have apologised.
Racist or not I thought the act was lame and not entertaining in the slightest. It was hilarious when the guy on the bike screwed up though.
mick2late
10/11/09, 07:37 AM
Look up the history on blackface and what it represents, then ask yourself if it is racist.
ghostyouare
10/11/09, 12:41 PM
Look up the history on blackface and what it represents, then ask yourself if it is racist.
Than ask yourself how Australia is involved in that.
Josh Weinstein
10/11/09, 12:51 PM
exzjVMIrkQE
GuitarR0cker1
10/11/09, 01:01 PM
http://www.wwda.org.au/portmul.htm
I don't know of any organised hate groups in Australia either. While America has the KKK, Aryan Nations, Skinheads, National Alliance, Jewish Defense League and the New Black Panther Party, among many more. Also, for all those people saying Australia is the most racist country, where are all these studies that suggest it is? So far, no one has provided any real facts on the matter, just their own bias.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Nation_(Australia)
One Nation was pretty fucking bad. They're not an organized hate group but they come pretty close. I'm sure if I did some internet searching I'd find plenty of far-right, racist groups in Australia too.
mick2late
10/11/09, 01:27 PM
Than ask yourself how Australia is involved in that.
Are the Jackson's Australian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Nation_(Australia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Nation_%28Australia%29)
One Nation was pretty fucking bad. They're not an organized hate group but they come pretty close. I'm sure if I did some internet searching I'd find plenty of far-right, racist groups in Australia too.
they had some rather radical immigration polices, but i would be shocked if you were genuinely comparing them to the klu klux klan.
Are the Jackson's Australian?
no but the general feel from everything i have read so far is that americans feel they should be setting the precedent for what is racist and what isn't.
Than ask yourself how Australia is involved in that.
exactly.
GuitarR0cker1
10/11/09, 05:23 PM
they had some rather radical immigration polices, but i would be shocked if you were genuinely comparing them to the klu klux klan.
I wasn't comparing them to the ku klux klan, I'm saying that they were on the far-right and were vehemently racist as you could be in the late 90's.
Dude you need not measure or scale racism,but whether u agree or not racism is rampant in australia.Dont cover the truth and say everyone in the world is racist.
well no if your saying Australia has the "1st highest racial attacks" you need some sort of source or backing information, otherwise it is practically just an ignorant and racist statement ironically. not that i would say it was racist, just going by everyone's extreme view that everything is practically racist.
everyone in the world is inherently racist. if America wasn't racist electing a black president would have been such a big deal, especially considering the opposition. and yes there are some elements of Australia that are racist as there are in every country. but if you intend to point out the racist points you need to present some argument opposed to some made up fact.
I wasn't comparing them to the ku klux klan, I'm saying that they were on the far-right and were vehemently racist as you could be in the late 90's.
and they lost abysmally in every election they took part in and their founder ended up in prison.
though a lot of that is still present today in Australia. it isn't so much racism as it is Australians trying to protect their history and culture.
Australians are very sensitive of other countries coming over here and demanding we make changes to suit them. i don't see how it is racist for us to expect that if someone comes over here that they respect our way of life and the way we choose to live it.
geebee889
10/11/09, 05:40 PM
k739n2VEsbA
Being an Australian myself i cannot see how this is defamatory or derogatory in any way? Am i missing something? Am i ignorant or a racist?
If so, by all means can someone please educate me on the matter.
As far as I can see, it's not. If you look back to the early 1800s, there were many theatre performers who performed with "black face". It's not done as an act of racism, but as a representation. Also, Caucasians weren't the only ones that used it. If you want to read more about it here's the wikipedia link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_face
mick2late
10/11/09, 05:47 PM
no but the general feel from everything i have read so far is that americans feel they should be setting the precedent for what is racist and what isn't.
Pretty sure racism is a pretty global phenomenon not just constructed by Americans. European soccer, anyone?
As far as I can see, it's not. If you look back to the early 1800s, there were many theatre performers who performed with "black face". It's not done as an act of racism, but as a representation. Also, Caucasians weren't the only ones that used it. If you want to read more about it here's the wikipedia link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_face
yeah we've been through black face. i feel its american racial issue not and australian one.
if it is a racist act, it should matter who is performing it. and just so you know two of the guys were indian and sri lanken.
GuitarR0cker1
10/11/09, 05:52 PM
and they lost abysmally in every election they took part in and their founder ended up in prison.
though a lot of that is still present today in Australia. it isn't so much racism as it is Australians trying to protect their history and culture.
Australians are very sensitive of other countries coming over here and demanding we make changes to suit them. i don't see how it is racist for us to expect that if someone comes over here that they respect our way of life and the way we choose to live it.
....
Seriously? No one has been doing that. Read this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism_in_Australia. The xenophobia that many Australians posess, just like many Americans, is an offshoot of racism. No Asian immigrant is forcing his or her way of life on any Australian. Anyone who thinks that is true is seriously deluded. I mean really, do you think there is any justification for a belief that Asians and other ethnic groups are taking over Australia?
Pretty sure racism is a pretty global phenomenon not just constructed by Americans. European soccer, anyone?
yes racisim is a global phenomenon. but just the same as im sure the word 'boonga' would mean nothing to you?
geebee889
10/11/09, 05:54 PM
yeah we've been through black face. i feel its american racial issue not and australian one.
if it is a racist act, it should matter who is performing it. and just so you know two of the guys were indian and sri lanken.
You're probably right about it being an American issue, I just think it's stupid that everything ends up coming down to race.
And that's just my point, there have been a ton of African American performers who have gone on stage in black face, so I really don't get the problem.
....
Seriously? No one has been doing that. Read this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism_in_Australia. The xenophobia that many Australians posess, just like many Americans, is an offshoot of racism. No Asian immigrant is forcing his or her way of life on any Australian. Anyone who thinks that is true is seriously deluded. I mean really, do you think there is any justification for a belief that Asians and other ethnic groups are taking over Australia?
no not even remotely. i don't need to read that. i've lived here for 20 years. im well aware of multiculturalism in australia.
what are you basing your information on? how many times have you been to australia?
there have been cases were other cultural groups have sought for changes to australian policy to better suit them. ie. australian public holidays being considered racist as they prevented some minority groups from working even though they share no connection to the holiday. i dont feel that it is appropriate. just as if i went over to another country, i would respect their laws and traditions. and hopefully they would welcome the best parts of my culture. just as australia has.
im not saying that anyone is trying to take over (your words, not mine) by any means. and anyone who thinks that is seriously deluded.
You're probably right about it being an American issue, I just think it's stupid that everything ends up coming down to race.
And that's just my point, there have been a ton of African American performers who have gone on stage in black face, so I really don't get the problem.
if a black person finds that offensive. fine, who am i to say what they do and don't find offensive. but it does seem mainly the white people getting upset about it.
i just don't see why america should set a precedent on racism.
GuitarR0cker1
10/11/09, 06:11 PM
no not even remotely. i don't need to read that. i've lived here for 20 years. im well aware of multiculturalism in australia.
what are you basing your information on? how many times have you been to australia?
there have been cases were other cultural groups have sought for changes to australian policy to better suit them. ie. australian public holidays being considered racist as they prevented some minority groups from working even though they share no connection to the holiday.
im not saying that anyone is trying to take over (your words, not mine) by any means. and anyone who thinks that is seriously deluded.
I don't need to go to someplace to know about another nation. There's a wealth of facts and information on the internet. I am very interested in Australia and other nations so I read about them. I'd love to go to Australia ,it seems like a great nation, I just have never had the chance to. I think I've heard about a few of those cases but that happens in America too. I just don't think that is really a valid justification for being scared of minority groups.
Whoops, my bad.
geebee889
10/11/09, 06:12 PM
if a black person finds that offensive. fine, who am i to say what they do and don't find offensive. but it does seem mainly the white people getting upset about it.
i just don't see why america should set a precedent on racism.
It really does seem that way. It's almost like they feel like they'll be blamed for it if the don't take a stand.
And neither do I, man. And I freaking live here.
I don't need to go to someplace to know about another nation. There's a wealth of facts and information on the internet. I am very interested in Australia and other nations so I read about them. I'd love to go to Australia ,it seems like a great nation, I just have never had the chance to. I think I've heard about a few of those cases but that happens in America too. I just don't think that is really a valid justification for being scared of minority groups.
Whoops, my bad.
absolutely none whatsoever. but the internet really isn't a valid source. it's all about context.
It really does seem that way. It's almost like they feel like they'll be blamed for it if the don't take a stand.
And neither do I, man. And I freaking live here.
it seems people are so scared of being called a racist they call racism at pretty much everything nowadays.
wroteurname
10/11/09, 06:16 PM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/0418/nba_g_jackson3_200.jpg
geebee889
10/11/09, 06:19 PM
it seems people are so scared of being called a racist they call racism at pretty much everything nowadays.
Pretty much. My manager was telling me a story the other day of how some chick who was trying to steal clothes accused her of being a "racist bitch". She never accused the girl of stealing, but it was automatically assumed that that was the reason why my manager was talking to her for quite some time.
mick2late
10/11/09, 06:48 PM
yes racisim is a global phenomenon. but just the same as im sure the word 'boonga' would mean nothing to you?
What difference does it make if I am aware of a slang, derogatory word used in another country? At the end of the day, it is still a racist term.
Josh Weinstein
10/11/09, 07:02 PM
5tnhUEEqCSc
mooshthedoosh
10/11/09, 07:05 PM
5tnhUEEqCSc
Japans society is also fucked up, with their classification of zainichis as second class citizens, and etc. suicide rate is off the hizzle there too.
5tnhUEEqCSc
surely this is just someone performing as someone they admire? are michael jackson impersonators racist nowadays too?
What difference does it make if I am aware of a slang, derogatory word used in another country? At the end of the day, it is still a racist term.
it should make all the difference. out of context it means nothing.
mick2late
10/11/09, 08:50 PM
it should make all the difference. out of context it means nothing.
By your logic then, I can scream such a word and when someone gets offended by it, I can claim that because I am not aware of the actual context of the word I am not at fault? Does not take away from the fact that my ignorance could hurt or offend someone. And right there lays the root of the issue: ignorance.
By your logic then, I can scream such a word and when someone gets offended by it, I can claim that because I am not aware of the actual context of the word I am not at fault? Does not take away from the fact that my ignorance could hurt or offend someone. And right there lays the root of the issue: ignorance.
by your logic then, another country's mistakes must dictate another countries racial context? surely you cant claim that America has set a racial precedent for the rest of the world?
the video was stupid. but its besides the point.
their was clearly no racial malice intended in it. two of the guys were sri lanken and indian.
i didn't know only white people were capable of racial malice.
thx for showing me the real deal
by your logic then, another country's mistakes must dictate another countries racial context? surely you cant claim that America has set a racial precedent for the rest of the world?
Black Face was not a solely American phenomenon. THE REST OF THE WORLD FREELY PARTICIPATED IN IT.
i didn't know only white people were capable of racial malice.
thx for showing me the real deal
if you read the containing post i was pointing out that they weren't all Australians, as the person who i quoted seemed under the impression they where.
Black Face was not a solely American phenomenon. THE REST OF THE WORLD FREELY PARTICIPATED IN IT.
not even close to the scale that America would have. nor does Australia have close to the black population that America does.
mick2late
10/11/09, 09:05 PM
by your logic then, another country's mistakes must dictate another countries racial context? surely you cant claim that America has set a racial precedent for the rest of the world?
People still discriminate against black people all across Europe by dawning black face.
NeededYouMost
10/11/09, 09:07 PM
it should make all the difference. out of context it means nothing.
that's just dumb
by your logic then, another country's mistakes must dictate another countries racial context? surely you cant claim that America has set a racial precedent for the rest of the world?
I really don't understand why you are still arguing this. You asked if this video was racist. People said yes, you are trying to say it isn't. And even if you admit it is racist, you will argue that they didn't mean to offend anyone thus it's not racist. You are defending racism by means of stupidity or pride. Whenever someone calls you out on your nonsense you argue and make a foolish defense. The bottom line is it's opinion. You don't think making racial remarks without "maliciousness" is racist at all, and others argue the contrary. Let it go man.
I'm not saying you don't like Black people. And I think that's what your main point is. Just because you don't dislike another person doesn't necessarily mean you aren't a racist.
the link at the bottom shows a guy dropping the N-word to criticize obama. Now I don't doubt he associates with blacks. Is he a racist? My opinion, yes. Others in America might think he isn't. It can go either way. That guy is the same as you and the rest of your country. So the difference with the US and Australia, is we have a few of these guys, you have your whole country.
http://chattahbox.com/us/2009/10/10/racist-n-word-sign-attacks-obamas-health-reform/
If black comedians can get 1 hour blocks on comedy central or BET mocking every race in the books then this is fine. It wasn't funny. But it wasn't offensive.
great logic, two wrongs make a right
(-1) + (-1) = 0
mick2late
10/11/09, 09:08 PM
not even close to the scale that America would have. nor does Australia have close to the black population that America does.
That does not mean it makes it okay. And actually, racism is probably more prominent in Europe then it is in America. Europe never had a civil rights movement, hence still the large degree of discrimination that goes on.
W-iRLmaZf4A
if you read the containing post i was pointing out that they weren't all Australians, as the person who i quoted seemed under the impression they where.
"the video was just kind of stupid.
but the few people in this thread who are complaining about aussies making generalizations and ignorant assumptions are doing the same thing by judging all aussies by this one act."
not sure how you came to that conclusion from this post. trying to save face?
People still discriminate against black people all across Europe by dawning black face.
whilst i can see it holds racial implications of a time in history where the world wouldn't have been such a great place for a black person to live. is it really discriminatory though? not hiring someone cause they are black, not giving the same rights to someone based on the colour of their skin etc. i would agree are heinous and blatant acts of discrimination.
painting your skin black and performing as the jackson 5 in clearly light hearted fashion within a country in which blackface is mostly out of context? can you really call that discrimination? or an act of racial hatred? surely there are more pressing racial issues that everyone needs to deal with.
"the video was just kind of stupid.
but the few people in this thread who are complaining about aussies making generalizations and ignorant assumptions are doing the same thing by judging all aussies by this one act."
not sure how you came to that conclusion from this post. trying to save face?
no? everyone in this thread is implying it was Australians, i was pointing out that this was not the case. caught up now?
That does not mean it makes it okay. And actually, racism is probably more prominent in Europe then it is in America. Europe never had a civil rights movement, hence still the large degree of discrimination that goes on.
W-iRLmaZf4A
that is a blatant act of hate and racism though? can you really compare that to the video at the start of this thread?
the person you quoted wasn't under the impression that the performers were australian. they were making a statement about the hypocrisy of other posters in this thread unfairly generalizing all australians as ignorant/racist.
I really don't understand why you are still arguing this. You asked if this video was racist. People said yes, you are trying to say it isn't. And even if you admit it is racist, you will argue that they didn't mean to offend anyone thus it's not racist. You are defending racism by means of stupidity or pride. Whenever someone calls you out on your nonsense you argue and make a foolish defense. The bottom line is it's opinion. You don't think making racial remarks without "maliciousness" is racist at all, and others argue the contrary. Let it go man.
I'm not saying you don't like Black people. And I think that's what your main point is. Just because you don't dislike another person doesn't necessarily mean you aren't a racist.
the link at the bottom shows a guy dropping the N-word to criticize obama. Now I don't doubt he associates with blacks. Is he a racist? My opinion, yes. Others in America might think he isn't. It can go either way. That guy is the same as you and the rest of your country. So the difference with the US and Australia, is we have a few of these guys, you have your whole country.
http://chattahbox.com/us/2009/10/10/racist-n-word-sign-attacks-obamas-health-reform/
im arguing stupid comments like that.
mick2late
10/11/09, 09:55 PM
whilst i can see it holds racial implications of a time in history where the world wouldn't have been such a great place for a black person to live. is it really discriminatory though? not hiring someone cause they are black, not giving the same rights to someone based on the colour of their skin etc. i would agree are heinous and blatant acts of discrimination.
painting your skin black and performing as the jackson 5 in clearly light hearted fashion within a country in which blackface is mostly out of context? can you really call that discrimination? or an act of racial hatred? surely there are more pressing racial issues that everyone needs to deal with.
that is a blatant act of hate and racism though? can you really compare that to the video at the start of this thread?
It is not a blatant act of discrimination, but it does not mean that it still isn't discriminatory. As for the video, it was more so to show that racism just isn't a social construct run and devised by Americans. It is a blatant issue globally and a lot of people from all over the globe may take offense to the blackface Jackson 5 performers, not just Americans.
That does not mean it makes it okay. And actually, racism is probably more prominent in Europe then it is in America. Europe never had a civil rights movement, hence still the large degree of discrimination that goes on.
Ridiculous. Don't try to cover up the fact that America is STILL one of the most racist countries in the world.
Ridiculous. Don't try to cover up the fact that America is STILL one of the most racist countries in the world.
no one really does take responsibility about racism, they just point out that another country is more racist. there have been WAY to many generalisations in this thread.
no one really does take responsibility about racism, they just point out that another country is more racist. there have been WAY to many generalisations in this thread.
Very true.I'm not saying there is no racism in Europe, but to say it's less of a problem in America iis pretty crazy.
Inaction
10/12/09, 05:39 AM
I'm starting to think people really need to watch what Whoopie Goldberg said about this.
that's just dumb
I really don't understand why you are still arguing this. You asked if this video was racist. People said yes, you are trying to say it isn't. And even if you admit it is racist, you will argue that they didn't mean to offend anyone thus it's not racist. You are defending racism by means of stupidity or pride. Whenever someone calls you out on your nonsense you argue and make a foolish defense. The bottom line is it's opinion. You don't think making racial remarks without "maliciousness" is racist at all, and others argue the contrary. Let it go man.
I'm not saying you don't like Black people. And I think that's what your main point is. Just because you don't dislike another person doesn't necessarily mean you aren't a racist.
the link at the bottom shows a guy dropping the N-word to criticize obama. Now I don't doubt he associates with blacks. Is he a racist? My opinion, yes. Others in America might think he isn't. It can go either way. That guy is the same as you and the rest of your country. So the difference with the US and Australia, is we have a few of these guys, you have your whole country.
http://chattahbox.com/us/2009/10/10/racist-n-word-sign-attacks-obamas-health-reform/
Well that was racist.
It's rather pathetic that some people who find the video offensive have no problem making offensive and racist remarks about Australians. Way to prove your point there guys. Seriously.
The hypocrisy is ridiculous.
Inaction
10/12/09, 05:46 AM
im starting to think everyone is inherently racist. by everyone on heres definition of racist you cant look sideways without doing something that someone else may consider racist.
Bit of an overstatement there. I think your real issue is with political correctness.
I am not saying that the entire country is racist but when it comes to racist attacks,most of the time its the australians.
I've asked you to provide some facts to back up your statements. You haven't done so. Instead you avoided the topic and have backpedaled. If you are going to make offensive comments at least remain consistent.
im arguing stupid comments like that.
Stupid is too nice a word for comments like that.
showstopper
10/12/09, 05:55 AM
Bit of an overstatement there. I think your real issue is with political correctness.
I've asked you to provide some facts to back up your statements. You haven't done so. Instead you avoided the topic and have backpedaled. If you are going to make offensive comments at least remain consistent.
So the difference with the US and Australia, is we have a few of these guys, you have your whole country.
Inaction
10/12/09, 06:01 AM
So the difference with the US and Australia, is we have a few of these guys, you have your whole country.
That doesn't even make sense in context with our disagreement. The opinion of a poster on a website is not fact and do not substantially back up your remarks.
What the hell.
showstopper
10/12/09, 06:06 AM
That doesn't even make sense in context with our disagreement. The opinion of a poster on a website is not fact and do not substantially back up your remarks.
What the hell.Even an ordinary person like does not admit the fact that racism is rampant in your country,yet people like u want obama to change the minds of terrorists.To make matters worse nobel prize for peace has been given to him hoping he will do so.What an irony.
Inaction
10/12/09, 06:12 AM
Even an ordinary person like does not admit the fact that racism is rampant in your country,yet people like u want obama to change the minds of terrorists.To make matters worse nobel prize for peace has been given to him hoping he will do so.What an irony.
Where did Obama come into this? And the Nobel Prize? And considering I'm not American or a registered democrat and haven't made any definitive comments on my political beliefs indicating who I would have voted for, how do you even know I am a supporter of Obama? And what exactly are people like me?
You sure you've made enough assumptions and unfounded statements yet?
Now this is just getting either funny or sad. I can't decide.
mick2late
10/12/09, 06:13 AM
Ridiculous. Don't try to cover up the fact that America is STILL one of the most racist countries in the world.
Never once tried to cover it up. All I'm saying is you don't see Americans throwing bananas at our black athletes at this point in time. Europeans do it rather frequently. Not saying it has never happened in America, but you don't see it here in America like you do in Europe.
mick2late
10/12/09, 06:14 AM
Ridiculous. Don't try to cover up the fact that America is STILL one of the most racist countries in the world.
Never once tried to cover it up. All I'm saying is you don't see Americans throwing bananas at our black athletes at this point in time. Europeans do it rather frequently. Not saying it has never happened in America, but you don't see it here in America like you do in Europe. Racism and discrimination is prominent in some shape or form in nearly every nation in the world.
EDIT: Don't know why it posted half my message before. When I tried to post it the first time it told me the threat didn't exist, so I reposted it. Guess it ended up posting twice :shrug: Sorry.
Inaction
10/12/09, 06:18 AM
Never once tried to cover it up. All I'm saying is you don't see Americans throwing bananas at our black athletes at this point in time. Europeans do it rather frequently. Not saying it has never happened in America, but you don't see it here in America like you do in Europe. Racism and discrimination is prominent in some shape or form in nearly every nation in the world.
Racism is a global problem. I don't see why there is a need to compare and criticize other countries. I don't think there is an accurate or fair way to assess the level a country is affected by racism. There are way too many external factors present (media bias or the global reach of a countries news for example). I'm sure if you looked hard enough you'd find racist events in any countries history.
Comparing countries and even specific incidents of racism is really an uncomfortable tangent to go down.
That wasn't necessarily directed at you by the way.
mick2late
10/12/09, 06:27 AM
Racism is a global problem. I don't see why there is a need to compare and criticize other countries. I don't think there is an accurate or fair way to assess the level a country is affected by racism. There are way too many external factors present (media bias or the global reach of a countries news for example). I'm sure if you looked hard enough you'd find racist events in any countries history.
Comparing countries and even specific incidents of racism is really an uncomfortable tangent to go down.
That wasn't necessarily directed at you by the way.
I totally agree. My whole thing I've been arguing is just because you don't view something as racist, doesn't mean it still isn't racist. Although blackface may not have been a prominent issue in Australia, it still was throughout American and parts of Europe. The guy who started the thread asked if this could be seen as racists. I don't know how it evolved from answering a question and giving a reason why into whose nation has the worst history with discrimination. I know America has had a shitload of problems and done a lot of horrible, discriminatory things. That isn't to say, though, it also hasn't happened anywhere else, which some people appeared to be claiming. Someone said racism isn't as much of an issue overseas as it is in America. Well, uh, look at the tapes and such. You see more blatant acts of racism and discrimination in some parts of Europe in public forums (IE, at soccer matches) then you do in America. That isn't to say America does not still have a racism problem, because we still do. All I'm trying to say is that it is an issue everywhere and not some social construct generated here in the States.
Racism is a global problem. I don't see why there is a need to compare and criticize other countries. I don't think there is an accurate or fair way to assess the level a country is affected by racism. There are way too many external factors present (media bias or the global reach of a countries news for example). I'm sure if you looked hard enough you'd find racist events in any countries history.
Comparing countries and even specific incidents of racism is really an uncomfortable tangent to go down.
That wasn't necessarily directed at you by the way.
agreed though i still think context plays a major role.
Inaction
10/12/09, 06:36 AM
I totally agree. My whole thing I've been arguing is just because you don't view something as racist, doesn't mean it still isn't racist. Although blackface may not have been a prominent issue in Australia, it still was throughout American and parts of Europe. The guy who started the thread asked if this could be seen as racists. I don't know how it evolved from answering a question and giving a reason why into whose nation has the worst history with discrimination. I know America has had a shitload of problems and done a lot of horrible, discriminatory things. That isn't to say, though, it also hasn't happened anywhere else, which some people appeared to be claiming. Someone said racism isn't as much of an issue overseas as it is in America. Well, uh, look at the tapes and such. You see more blatant acts of racism and discrimination in some parts of Europe in public forums (IE, at soccer matches) then you do in America. That isn't to say America does not still have a racism problem, because we still do. All I'm trying to say is that it is an issue everywhere and not some social construct generated here in the States.
I completely agree.
European soccer matches (or any sports match with alcohol and testosterone really) are a completely crazy microcosm. Brings out the worst in people.
And I've said this before but I also totally understand why some people were offended by this video. It's just an entirely messy situation. And the reactions are really making it worse. It's a shame we can't just all admit it was a mistake, learn from it and move on.
mick2late
10/12/09, 06:38 AM
I completely agree.
European soccer matches (or any sports match with alcohol and testosterone really) are a completely crazy microcosm. Brings out the worst in people.
And I've said this before but I also totally understand why some people were offended by this video. It's just an entirely messy situation. And the reactions are really making it worse. It's a shame we can't just all admit it was a mistake, learn from it and move on.
/Thread.
I totally agree. My whole thing I've been arguing is just because you don't view something as racist, doesn't mean it still isn't racist. Although blackface may not have been a prominent issue in Australia, it still was throughout American and parts of Europe. The guy who started the thread asked if this could be seen as racists. I don't know how it evolved from answering a question and giving a reason why into whose nation has the worst history with discrimination. I know America has had a shitload of problems and done a lot of horrible, discriminatory things. That isn't to say, though, it also hasn't happened anywhere else, which some people appeared to be claiming. Someone said racism isn't as much of an issue overseas as it is in America. Well, uh, look at the tapes and such. You see more blatant acts of racism and discrimination in some parts of Europe in public forums (IE, at soccer matches) then you do in America. That isn't to say America does not still have a racism problem, because we still do. All I'm trying to say is that it is an issue everywhere and not some social construct generated here in the States.
threads just evolve into absurdities when people start making gross generalisations which have been made constantly so far.
but i begrudge Australia being called a racist, ignorant country (not that you did but has been several times throughout the thread).
racism as a holistic principal, in terms of hate and intolerance based on colour, ethnicity etc. is a global issue. agreed.
specific forms of racism which are contextually defined, i still don't believe can be considered racist. should one country have to subscribe to every others principles, beliefs, or history. surely not.
should the world as a whole respect human beings as equals regardless of race, ethnicity, gender etc.? of course.
mick2late
10/12/09, 07:16 AM
threads just evolve into absurdities when people start making gross generalisations which have been made constantly so far.
but i begrudge Australia being called a racist, ignorant country (not that you did but has been several times throughout the thread).
racism as a holistic principal, in terms of hate and intolerance based on colour, ethnicity etc. is a global issue. agreed.
specific forms of racism which are contextually defined, i still don't believe can be considered racist. should one country have to subscribe to every others principles, beliefs, or history. surely not.
should the world as a whole respect human beings as equals regardless of race, ethnicity, gender etc.? not in any way, shape or form.
Wait, am I reading that last line correctly? Why shouldn't we respect human beings as equals regardless of race, ethnicity, gender?? That is an incredibly problematic remark if that is how you meant it.
ghostyouare
10/12/09, 11:37 AM
Even an ordinary person like does not admit the fact that racism is rampant in your country,yet people like u want obama to change the minds of terrorists.To make matters worse nobel prize for peace has been given to him hoping he will do so.What an irony.
Do you even know what the word Irony means?
This thread is worse than the people who think that Obama being elected means that we're in a post-racist society.
The reason why it's possible to comment on Australians in generalities about race on this issue is that multiple polls show something like 70% of Australians saw no issue with it. Does that make saying all Australians are racist a correct statement? No, but it does allow for an argument that states that a majority of Australians are racist.
I don't think anyone actually believes all Americans are southern stereotypes, but people still reference that in other countries as an easy way to describe our foreign policy attitudes.
NeededYouMost
10/12/09, 01:19 PM
I'm starting to think people really need to watch what Whoopie Goldberg said about this.
Well that was racist.
It's rather pathetic that some people who find the video offensive have no problem making offensive and racist remarks about Australians. Way to prove your point there guys. Seriously.
The hypocrisy is ridiculous.
I didn't know Australian was a race of people.
Wait, am I reading that last line correctly? Why shouldn't we respect human beings as equals regardless of race, ethnicity, gender?? That is an incredibly problematic remark if that is how you meant it.
ah crap. good save. yes well i obviously meant shouldn't.
mick2late
10/12/09, 02:45 PM
ah crap. good save. yes well i obviously meant shouldn't.
Haha, phew. You were making me really nervous there for a second.
In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
source: http://www.hri.org/docs/ICERD66.html (UNITED NATIONS International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination)
Inaction
10/12/09, 04:30 PM
I didn't know Australian was a race of people.
Read the post above this.
This thread is worse than the people who think that Obama being elected means that we're in a post-racist society.
The reason why it's possible to comment on Australians in generalities about race on this issue is that multiple polls show something like 70% of Australians saw no issue with it. Does that make saying all Australians are racist a correct statement? No, but it does allow for an argument that states that a majority of Australians are racist.
I don't think anyone actually believes all Americans are southern stereotypes, but people still reference that in other countries as an easy way to describe our foreign policy attitudes.
It has been explained time and time again why the majority of Australian's saw no issue with it. So no, it doesn't allow for people to make that argument. Of course they still will.
You can argue that because blackface was shown on Australian television in the past it means Australia participated. That however fails to mention that blackface is essentially not a major part of our history. It's not something the current general population is even remotely aware of. We don't have black history month. We didn't have a black civil rights movement. So for most people there was nothing intentionally offensive about the performance. The people literally thought they were performing a tribute to a group they evidently loved. Context is incredibly important in this situation. There is no connection for the majority of the country between painting your face either black or white and the horrific treatment of the black community in history. Hence why most people did not find issue with it.
Does it make the skit right? No. But neither is ignoring the context of the situation.
It's really time to move on. Those involved have apologized and undoubtedly learnt their lesson, what more do people want?
NeededYouMost
10/12/09, 06:23 PM
Read the post above this.
Does it make the skit right? No. But neither is ignoring the context of the situation.
It's really time to move on. Those involved have apologized and undoubtedly learnt their lesson, what more do people want?
hmm so how about this
"i had a horrible day at work, i was so ni66erbored" hmm so since that wasn't intended to hurt some black guys feelings then i'm not racist.
"Crap, I cant believe i scored so high on a test i'm ch1nk smart!"
"Holy shit, did you see how fast Jim swam, it's like he's escaping from cuba"
"Hey Bob, you are really good in accounting, HebrewNational must be the only thing you eat"
All of this is racist. if you can't see that, you're a fucking idiot
hmm so how about this
"i had a horrible day at work, i was so ni66erbored" hmm so since that wasn't intended to hurt some black guys feelings then i'm not racist.
"Crap, I cant believe i scored so high on a test i'm ch1nk smart!"
"Holy shit, did you see how fast Jim swam, it's like he's escaping from cuba"
"Hey Bob, you are really good in accounting, HebrewNational must be the only thing you eat"
All of this is racist. if you can't see that, you're a fucking idiot
yeah because your clearly aware of the context and implications of what your saying.
Read the post above this.
It has been explained time and time again why the majority of Australian's saw no issue with it. So no, it doesn't allow for people to make that argument. Of course they still will.
You can argue that because blackface was shown on Australian television in the past it means Australia participated. That however fails to mention that blackface is essentially not a major part of our history. It's not something the current general population is even remotely aware of. We don't have black history month. We didn't have a black civil rights movement. So for most people there was nothing intentionally offensive about the performance. The people literally thought they were performing a tribute to a group they evidently loved. Context is incredibly important in this situation. There is no connection for the majority of the country between painting your face either black or white and the horrific treatment of the black community in history. Hence why most people did not find issue with it.
Does it make the skit right? No. But neither is ignoring the context of the situation.
It's really time to move on. Those involved have apologized and undoubtedly learnt their lesson, what more do people want?
very well put.
This thread is worse than the people who think that Obama being elected means that we're in a post-racist society.
The reason why it's possible to comment on Australians in generalities about race on this issue is that multiple polls show something like 70% of Australians saw no issue with it. Does that make saying all Australians are racist a correct statement? No, but it does allow for an argument that states that a majority of Australians are racist.
I don't think anyone actually believes all Americans are southern stereotypes, but people still reference that in other countries as an easy way to describe our foreign policy attitudes.
source?
mooshthedoosh
10/12/09, 10:19 PM
if u cant see that the video is ignorant, not racist, than you are blind as shit. i just saying australia has an ignorant mentality. Just as Japan and America in some ways can be. Its hard being a minority anywhere, we don't need more ignorance to further block us.
source?
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/of-record-nationwide-response-to-poll-on-hey-hey-its-saturday-blackface-skit-says-the-clip-was-neither-racist-nor-tasteless/story-e6frf7jo-1225784426024
I don't think that the performers doing it were doing it to be intentionally racist. However, the act of blackface has gained an intrinsic quality of racism, as it was rooted in glorification of plantation life, to show that blacks were happy to be mistreated and owned. You may argue, "oh, but that intrinsic quality doesn't exist in our countries", but that is incorrect. It was a tradition started in America that spread to other countries. The glorification of blacks as minstrels always wanting to entertain and be happy, that idea is communicated through the methods of a black face performer- all the aspects that make this glorifying are the ones that were required to exist before other countries would find it entertaining.
Other countries picked up this glorification of oppression and ran with it - that is why it's offensive, and disgusting that people in this thread defend it. You are glorifying slavery by finding black face entertaining.
Doing a song and dance routine in black face is much more offensive than doing an acting role, even if the acting role was in true black face, as the whole idea of the blackface minstrel is the culmination of this idea of the paradise of plantation life.
The problem is not the performers. The problem is with the producer's of the show, and the probably 10 - 15 people who had to clear it to be performed - they weren't just picking random people off the street and throwing them in a room. They were picking what they thought would garner them ratings, make their show popular. It is not the role of random people in Australia to know about the tradition of black face, and all its racial implications. That's not what I'm suggesting. It should be expected for the producers to have some awareness, though.
However, it is problematic that the majority of Australians find a clear grotesque misrepresentation of human beings entertaining.
Let me re-state this argument a bit more simply. No one in this thread is saying that the performer's who did this did it in to an intentionally racist manner. However, we are suggesting that the fact that this could occur is emblematic, suggestive of deep-set racial problems.
mooshthedoosh
10/12/09, 11:16 PM
I don't think that the performers doing it were doing it to be intentionally racist. However, the act of blackface has gained an intrinsic quality of racism, as it was rooted in glorification of plantation life, to show that blacks were happy to be mistreated and owned. You may argue, "oh, but that intrinsic quality doesn't exist in our countries", but that is incorrect. It was a tradition started in America that spread to other countries. The glorification of blacks as minstrels always wanting to entertain and be happy, that idea is communicated through the methods of a black face performer- all the aspects that make this glorifying are the ones that were required to exist before other countries would find it entertaining.
Other countries picked up this glorification of oppression and ran with it - that is why it's offensive, and disgusting that people in this thread defend it. You are glorifying slavery by finding black face entertaining.
Doing a song and dance routine in black face is much more offensive than doing an acting role, even if the acting role was in true black face, as the whole idea of the blackface minstrel is the culmination of this idea of the paradise of plantation life.
The problem is not the performers. The problem is with the producer's of the show, and the probably 10 - 15 people who had to clear it to be performed - they weren't just picking random people off the street and throwing them in a room. They were picking what they thought would garner them ratings, make their show popular. It is not the role of random people in Australia to know about the tradition of black face, and all its racial implications. That's not what I'm suggesting. It should be expected for the producers to have some awareness, though.
However, it is problematic that the majority of Australians find a clear grotesque misrepresentation of human beings entertaining.
Let me re-state this argument a bit more simply. No one in this thread is saying that the performer's who did this did it in to an intentionally racist manner. However, we are suggesting that the fact that this could occur is emblematic, suggestive of deep-set racial problems.
you are very eloquent. Well stated.
Inaction
10/13/09, 01:08 AM
hmm so how about this
"i had a horrible day at work, i was so ni66erbored" hmm so since that wasn't intended to hurt some black guys feelings then i'm not racist.
"Crap, I cant believe i scored so high on a test i'm ch1nk smart!"
"Holy shit, did you see how fast Jim swam, it's like he's escaping from cuba"
"Hey Bob, you are really good in accounting, HebrewNational must be the only thing you eat"
All of this is racist. if you can't see that, you're a fucking idiot
I find it hard to take anyone who takes an 'if you don't agree with me you're a ______" attitude seriously. And I have already said I thought the video was racist several times in this thread. In the future try reading. It'll help your arguments.
The big difference here is in those above statements you are aware of the offensive and racist implications of your comments.
Let's take a hypothetical situation. Now let's say you are someone who maybe wasn't aware that the N word had racist implications and was offensive. Therefore you don't find someone saying your first quote offensive. Does this mean you are racist? No, it just means you are unaware. That's what I was saying. If you then are enlightened about the history of the word and still don't find it offensive, well that's another situation all together.
Context doesn't always excuse actions but in this instance it can.
Inaction
10/13/09, 01:25 AM
I don't think that the performers doing it were doing it to be intentionally racist. However, the act of blackface has gained an intrinsic quality of racism, as it was rooted in glorification of plantation life, to show that blacks were happy to be mistreated and owned. You may argue, "oh, but that intrinsic quality doesn't exist in our countries", but that is incorrect. It was a tradition started in America that spread to other countries. The glorification of blacks as minstrels always wanting to entertain and be happy, that idea is communicated through the methods of a black face performer- all the aspects that make this glorifying are the ones that were required to exist before other countries would find it entertaining.
Other countries picked up this glorification of oppression and ran with it - that is why it's offensive, and disgusting that people in this thread defend it. You are glorifying slavery by finding black face entertaining.
Doing a song and dance routine in black face is much more offensive than doing an acting role, even if the acting role was in true black face, as the whole idea of the blackface minstrel is the culmination of this idea of the paradise of plantation life.
The problem is not the performers. The problem is with the producer's of the show, and the probably 10 - 15 people who had to clear it to be performed - they weren't just picking random people off the street and throwing them in a room. They were picking what they thought would garner them ratings, make their show popular. It is not the role of random people in Australia to know about the tradition of black face, and all its racial implications. That's not what I'm suggesting. It should be expected for the producers to have some awareness, though.
However, it is problematic that the majority of Australians find a clear grotesque misrepresentation of human beings entertaining.
Let me re-state this argument a bit more simply. No one in this thread is saying that the performer's who did this did it in to an intentionally racist manner. However, we are suggesting that the fact that this could occur is emblematic, suggestive of deep-set racial problems.
I'm assuming some of this was directed at my comment to you.
I'm not defending the skit itself, merely the fact that allegedly most people in Australia don't have an issue with it. I was arguing that that could be a result of purely being unaware of the concept of blackface and why it is offensive. I'd say most people would only be familiar with it via Tropic Thunder and that's hardly going to educate them on it.
Evidently yes, black people probably were discriminated against in Australian history (I'm not aware on any specific instances but I'd find it hard to believe any in the country weren't). However it wasn't on the scale as America probably due to the minuscule black population in Australia. Therefore the black civil rights movement isn't something that is taught outside of popular culture. This explains the lack of knowledge about blackface.
It is not the role of random people in Australia to know about the tradition of black face, and all its racial implications. That's not what I'm suggesting.
That may not be your intent, but that is what is coming across. Especially with the following remark:
"However, it is problematic that the majority of Australians find a clear grotesque misrepresentation of human beings entertaining."
In the polls you are referring too I doubt they are even aware of why it is offensive (they probably just see it as a tribute, as the performers themselves did). I've yet to see any media program delve deeply into the subject and explain exactly why it is offensive rather than just state that it is. I don't think this poll is conclusive or deep enough to be able to say that it means what you are saying. I'd at the very least hope that those polled would change their opinions on it if they were given much more information on blackface. Alas, we will never know.
What you are saying also implies that there is one true definitions of what is and isn't offensive. Just because someone doesn't find the same things offensive as you do doesn't mean that they are racist or have prejudice.
I also don't think anyone here is saying blackface is entertaining.
The show was a reunion show. This act won twenty years ago, or so I'm told. I'm guessing that's why it was brought back (not because it was offensive and would garner ratings). I definitely think the producers should be getting flack for airing this, not the performers or Australia in general.
I've always been arguing that the skit itself was racist and/or offensive. I've only been defending the country and the intent of the performers.
I'm assuming some of this was directed at my comment to you.
I'm not defending the skit itself, merely the fact that allegedly most people in Australia don't have an issue with it. I was arguing that that could be a result of purely being unaware of the concept of blackface and why it is offensive. I'd say most people would only be familiar with it via Tropic Thunder and that's hardly going to educate them on it.
Evidently yes, black people probably were discriminated against in Australian history (I'm not aware on any specific instances but I'd find it hard to believe any in the country weren't). However it wasn't on the scale as America probably due to the minuscule black population in Australia. Therefore the black civil rights movement isn't something that is taught outside of popular culture. This explains the lack of knowledge about blackface.
It is not the role of random people in Australia to know about the tradition of black face, and all its racial implications. That's not what I'm suggesting.
That may not be your intent, but that is what is coming across. Especially with the following remark:
"However, it is problematic that the majority of Australians find a clear grotesque misrepresentation of human beings entertaining."
In the polls you are referring too I doubt they are even aware of why it is offensive (they probably just see it as a tribute, as the performers themselves did). I've yet to see any media program delve deeply into the subject and explain exactly why it is offensive rather than just state that it is. I don't think this poll is conclusive or deep enough to be able to say that it means what you are saying. I'd at the very least hope that those polled would change their opinions on it if they were given much more information on blackface. Alas, we will never know.
What you are saying also implies that there is one true definitions of what is and isn't offensive. Just because someone doesn't find the same things offensive as you do doesn't mean that they are racist or have prejudice.
I also don't think anyone here is saying blackface is entertaining.
The show was a reunion show. This act won twenty years ago, or so I'm told. I'm guessing that's why it was brought back (not because it was offensive and would garner ratings). I definitely think the producers should be getting flack for airing this, not the performers or Australia in general.
I've always been arguing that the skit itself was racist and/or offensive. I've only been defending the country and the intent of the performers.
my problem with calling it a racist skit, is that this implies that the performers, performed this knowingly with the intent to inspire some form of racial hatred.
i think what most people here are struggling about is a clear and constant definition of racism and its correlation between ignorance and context.
I don't think that the performers doing it were doing it to be intentionally racist. However, the act of blackface has gained an intrinsic quality of racism, as it was rooted in glorification of plantation life, to show that blacks were happy to be mistreated and owned. You may argue, "oh, but that intrinsic quality doesn't exist in our countries", but that is incorrect. It was a tradition started in America that spread to other countries. The glorification of blacks as minstrels always wanting to entertain and be happy, that idea is communicated through the methods of a black face performer- all the aspects that make this glorifying are the ones that were required to exist before other countries would find it entertaining.
Other countries picked up this glorification of oppression and ran with it - that is why it's offensive, and disgusting that people in this thread defend it. You are glorifying slavery by finding black face entertaining.
Doing a song and dance routine in black face is much more offensive than doing an acting role, even if the acting role was in true black face, as the whole idea of the blackface minstrel is the culmination of this idea of the paradise of plantation life.
The problem is not the performers. The problem is with the producer's of the show, and the probably 10 - 15 people who had to clear it to be performed - they weren't just picking random people off the street and throwing them in a room. They were picking what they thought would garner them ratings, make their show popular. It is not the role of random people in Australia to know about the tradition of black face, and all its racial implications. That's not what I'm suggesting. It should be expected for the producers to have some awareness, though.
However, it is problematic that the majority of Australians find a clear grotesque misrepresentation of human beings entertaining.
Let me re-state this argument a bit more simply. No one in this thread is saying that the performer's who did this did it in to an intentionally racist manner. However, we are suggesting that the fact that this could occur is emblematic, suggestive of deep-set racial problems.
ok i see your point with those stats.
but no Australia doesn't have the same racial context as America, just the same as America didn't have the same as Australia.
im sure there are alot of racial terms and actions that Americans aren't aware of that are deep set in Australian history.
whilst some are more deep set than others, i still don't believe one country should be able to set a racial precedent for another.
Australians should not be lampooned as racists simply because our racial errors of the past don't align with America's.
LamarVannoy
10/13/09, 08:27 PM
Australia is the most racist society on the planet. The sheer audacity of this stunt and the feigned ignorance by the host and the performers that they thought it was okay to paint their faces black and dance around mimicking talented black entertainers lends to their stupidity.
Australians like to think they know everything and carry themselves with a smug self satisfaction. To hear you admit your ignorance is refreshing
And Americans dont?
We're not racist, we just dont take ourselves so seriously.
I think people can base that "comment" by reading a lot of the things you have already posted. You are clearly ignorant. If ignorance correlates to racists, then you sir are a dumb racist.
I could simply respond to this by saying "you don't know who i am, how do you know my parents aren't Australian and that I had to go there every fucking summer for the past 22 years thus equaling to about 6 years worth of time spent in Australian." but no im not going to argue that. Instead Im going to stick to my convictions that Australia is a racist place. if that's a problem for you then too bad. I've heard and read enough to know that a black man in Australia is almost like a elephant walking down the streets of Manhattan. Something to be gawked at and stereotyped.
are you serious? obviously you havent heard or read enough to know anything about Australia because this comment is the most ignorant and idiotic statement I've ever read. Do you honestly believe we treat people like that here? I'd like to know where you get your information from.
ghostyouare
10/13/09, 09:13 PM
I love the ignorance in here by Americans. It's racist because we done fucked up and now everyone should be held to our standard. Outstanding.
mooshthedoosh
10/13/09, 09:29 PM
racial context? this just shows that you dont understand and don't try to understand why this might be offensive. Sure your racial contexts might not be the same as Americans and any other country for that matter, but it also acts as ignorance. Sure it might not be racially motivated, but it also shows a lack of understanding and respect for another race. Someone here said there aren't a lot of black people in Australia and maybe that might be a contributing factor to this, but like any globalizing country, respect for people should be held in high regard. Do you remember the social faux pas that the Spanish Olympic Basketball team made? When they purposefully slanted their eyes with their hands, and took a group photo? In Spanish culture, things like this is generally accepted, and they don't really understand why jokes like that are such a problem. But to the rest of the world, this was a huge faux pas and the Spanish basketball team was under huge flack.
This is generally the same thing. You have got to understand that this world is starting to become a huge melting pot. People have got to accommodate and welcome different cultures and ideas into their lives. This not only affects how we communicate amongst each other, but it also lends to shaping globalization as a whole (whether it be in business or society). The fact that you give a reason to why Australia might not be held accountable to ignorance for this video shows that you don't understand other cultures, and why it might be ignorant.
Now I am by no means one of those people who get offended very easily, nor do I like tackling these types of subjects, as they often give people the impression of weakness. But if you haven't experienced ignorant things like this in a timely basis, you will never understand why things such as these might be hurtful to a certain culture or race. Oftentimes, people will make racial/ignorant remarks and back it up to be as truth or not see it as hurtful.
In short, you might not have to agree with why it is ignorant, but you should be able to see why it might be ignorant.
Inaction
10/13/09, 09:58 PM
racial context? this just shows that you dont understand and don't try to understand why this might be offensive. Sure your racial contexts might not be the same as Americans and any other country for that matter, but it also acts as ignorance. Sure it might not be racially motivated, but it also shows a lack of understanding and respect for another race. Someone here said there aren't a lot of black people in Australia and maybe that might be a contributing factor to this, but like any globalizing country, respect for people should be held in high regard. Do you remember the social faux pas that the Spanish Olympic Basketball team made? When they purposefully slanted their eyes with their hands, and took a group photo? In Spanish culture, things like this is generally accepted, and they don't really understand why jokes like that are such a problem. But to the rest of the world, this was a huge faux pas and the Spanish basketball team was under huge flack.
This is generally the same thing. You have got to understand that this world is starting to become a huge melting pot. People have got to accommodate and welcome different cultures and ideas into their lives. This not only affects how we communicate amongst each other, but it also lends to shaping globalization as a whole (whether it be in business or society). The fact that you give a reason to why Australia might not be held accountable to ignorance for this video shows that you don't understand other cultures, and why it might be ignorant.
Now I am by no means one of those people who get offended very easily, nor do I like tackling these types of subjects, as they often give people the impression of weakness. But if you haven't experienced ignorant things like this in a timely basis, you will never understand why things such as these might be hurtful to a certain culture or race. Oftentimes, people will make racial/ignorant remarks and back it up to be as truth or not see it as hurtful.
In short, you might not have to agree with why it is ignorant, but you should be able to see why it might be ignorant.
For the most part this is what I have been saying. I at least agree with the greater sentiment minus the Australia is ignorant slant.
"The fact that you give a reason to why Australia might not be held accountable to ignorance for this video shows that you don't understand other cultures, and why it might be ignorant. "
That goes both ways. Some people here aren't understanding that Australia has a completely different culture to America and therefore what may be offensive in the US isn't necessarily offensive over here. I've been explaining why to the majority of people here the skit wasn't offensive. I think someone mentioned earlier in the thread that Blackface was on television in England in the late 70's. Let's assume that it was the same here. That leaves a very large portion of a population (basically anyone under forty as I doubt anyone under ten at the time would have even a remote grasp of the implications of what was really being shown) with no connection to Blackface, no context for it. So it is surprising they wouldn't find this offensive? No. Does it mean they are racist like people have been trying to claim? No.
Claiming that Australia is ignorant because they don't see why something is offensive is in itself completely ignorant because you are ignoring the fact the concept of Blackface has no real context for the current generation. There may have been back when Blackface and minstrel shows were a common occurrence on television but it doesn't now.
This whole situation reminds me of a story. We have a brand of food here (Coon cheese). It is named after it's creator (Edward Coon or something). In the US apparently the name is a derogatory racist word. One of my friends had one of her US friends visit. She got extremely offended by the product. Nobody from here thought it was offensive because the word is not a part of Australian vernacular or at least it hasn't been for the current generation.
So who in that situation was wrong? Neither. Different countries with different cultures.
If anyone should be getting flack it's the producers of the show, not the entire country. And yes, I'd say the lack of a black population in Australia is a huge driving factor in this situation. Things would be a lot different if that wasn't the case.
Inaction
10/13/09, 10:11 PM
my problem with calling it a racist skit, is that this implies that the performers, performed this knowingly with the intent to inspire some form of racial hatred.
i think what most people here are struggling about is a clear and constant definition of racism and its correlation between ignorance and context.
It's an uncomfortable and unfortunate situation, but intent doesn't necessarily clear someone of their mistakes when they offend someone. You could argue about the degree of racism involved in the skit, but it's really not a good road to go down.
It's an uncomfortable and unfortunate situation, but intent doesn't necessarily clear someone of their mistakes when they offend someone. You could argue about the degree of racism involved in the skit, but it's really not a good road to go down.
nah i definitely wouldn't, you can't claim your not aware of the context then go ahead and argue the severity of the racial act.
caveBEAR
10/13/09, 11:31 PM
Outback Steakhouse is more of a racial injustice than the skit.
ghostyouare
10/14/09, 12:06 AM
racial context? this just shows that you dont understand and don't try to understand why this might be offensive. Sure your racial contexts might not be the same as Americans and any other country for that matter, but it also acts as ignorance. Sure it might not be racially motivated, but it also shows a lack of understanding and respect for another race. Someone here said there aren't a lot of black people in Australia and maybe that might be a contributing factor to this, but like any globalizing country, respect for people should be held in high regard. Do you remember the social faux pas that the Spanish Olympic Basketball team made? When they purposefully slanted their eyes with their hands, and took a group photo? In Spanish culture, things like this is generally accepted, and they don't really understand why jokes like that are such a problem. But to the rest of the world, this was a huge faux pas and the Spanish basketball team was under huge flack.
This is generally the same thing. You have got to understand that this world is starting to become a huge melting pot. People have got to accommodate and welcome different cultures and ideas into their lives. This not only affects how we communicate amongst each other, but it also lends to shaping globalization as a whole (whether it be in business or society). The fact that you give a reason to why Australia might not be held accountable to ignorance for this video shows that you don't understand other cultures, and why it might be ignorant.
Now I am by no means one of those people who get offended very easily, nor do I like tackling these types of subjects, as they often give people the impression of weakness. But if you haven't experienced ignorant things like this in a timely basis, you will never understand why things such as these might be hurtful to a certain culture or race. Oftentimes, people will make racial/ignorant remarks and back it up to be as truth or not see it as hurtful.
In short, you might not have to agree with why it is ignorant, but you should be able to see why it might be ignorant.
Nope. You're wrong.
BryterJonah
10/14/09, 12:11 AM
long paragraphs i fear i watch hulu instead
Buried A Lie
10/14/09, 04:49 PM
Maybe not intended as racist, but fucking stupid without doubt. Don't care what culture, American or Australian, if this didn't strike anyone involved as possibly a bad idea due to racial insensitivity done in poor taste then they live in a world of total ignorance.
Machu505
10/15/09, 05:49 PM
So I guess Australia isn't alone in thinking blackface is ok.
http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/beauty/french-vogue-does-blackface-since-when-is-this-ok-525789/
I love the ignorance in here by Americans. It's racist because we done fucked up and now everyone should be held to our standard. Outstanding.
thankyou. my point exactly.
xshady121
11/03/09, 11:42 AM
Blackface is NEVER acceptable.
This is awesome though.
http://boston.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/am-i-racist-for-not-thinking-this-cowboys-cheerleader-dressed-as-lil-wayne-is-being-racist/
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